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View Full Version : A quick and Dirty Ranger 'fix'



ngilop
2012-05-13, 09:52 PM
Hey guys, Ive been mulling over what I need to do to make the ranger a more .mm attractive and competant class to play. SO ive sepnt the last few weeks trying to come up with with various ways that I want and how to do with this.

But first allow me to go into a bit more detail in what I wanted.

to me the ranger is made up of several diffferent 'iconic' class features. I will list each of those and my thoughts. and My own corrections for it.

1) Animal Companion., The old grizzled fighter that has alwasy had a wolf that follows him around, or even the little girl who was resuced by a mother bear. those are all classical literary arcehtypes. But they gave the best version of that feature to Druids.
This fix was the most simple. Just make rangers get an animal companion at first level and bump the druids up to 4th ( so one is just switching the two classes in regards)

2) Spells., The guy who uses minor magical effects that are nature-ishy in uh. nature? LOL. while this is a bit of a stretch I guess one can make it work.
I do not want the ranger to be spell focused, so going bard progression style is completely out of the question for me. ANd with the spell compendium. Ranger spells are, in my opinion the best overall spell selection in the game. SO this is left alone

3) WIldempathy/woodland stride/swift tracker etc etc THese are suppose ot be about the ranger Knowing and being overall readied in his environment and being intune with the world of nature around him. only.. NOT!!!! but then you have the horizon walker that gives favored terrain. and that is exactly what I did (minus teh planar ones) so in effect this ability is the same as teh PF ranger. Being around animals and being animal and nature focused I thought why the hell not? and thought giving the ranger Scent at 7th level is a good point. as well as making all of his attacks be either with the flaming, icy, or Shock at 6th level, increasing what is a major weakness lack of damage ( at least how ive seen it so far)

4) Favored Enemy. Jack the giant killer, dragon slayers, undead hunters.. I mean dang.. there are countless examples of this in literature. only.. 3rd ed did a craptacular job of realizing it.

So I tried to even things up a bit, only that I am 100% sure I fell short on my idea. I gave 1 FE at 1st and a ranger wated untill 10th to get his 2nd then it progressed every 5 levels from there. also i enforce FE via roleplaying as in, you are not going to take FE:Beholders at first level as to me that makes no sense. I also made the bonus apply to more things. Id link my previous thread for this very thing.. but alas.. GiTP is broke with 503/500/550 errors all over the place so this post might not even make it through

5) Combat styles. why does it just suddenly END at lvl 11? and further more.. why do they only give you bonus feats? LAME!!!! this to me (along side favored enemy and animal companon) are teh MUST HAVE AND MUST BE AWESOMES for the ranger and really this is where i fell 3rd ed fell short on the possibilities.

{table=head]Level|Archery|Dual wield | Progression
2nd|Bonus Damage|Temporary HP|Combat Style|
6th|Threatening Archer|Swift attacker|Improved Combat Style|
11th|Master Shot|Eagle Claw|Supreme Combat Style|
16th|Deadly Aim|Bladed Flurry|Combat Style Mastery|
[/table]

BOnus dmg: the first successful attack in an encounter deals an extra amount of damage equal to the ranger's clas level

Temporary HP: the first successful attack in an encounter gives teh Ranger temporary bonus HP equal to 3+2 per Ranger class level.

Threatening archer: The ranger is considering threatening squares as if he were in melee with teh same rule as for regular flanking.

Swift Attacker: The ranger can make an attack with both equipped weapons as a standard action

Master shot/Eagel claw: the rangers add dex midifer to damage done with his weapons

Deadly Aim: upon a succesful spot check ( as a free action) of DC 10+ 2x(CR of opponent) the ranger's successful attack against the opponet must succeed on a fortifude save at DC 10+1/2 spot check or immediately be reduced to 3 HP.

Bladed Flurry: Upon a succesful attack with both his main and off-hand weapon, the ranger gains a bonus attack with his main hand weapon

these above abilities are in adtion to the ranger bonus feast due to Combat styles.

All of these combined I think would be enough to put the ranger up to tier 3.
with the changes to favored enemy and gaining favored terrain to make his out of combat ness more worthwile and more useful over all.

Though I might be completely wrong

what i do NOT want to give the ranger to make him 'tier 3' is more spells and/or the wildshape abilities. for me at that popint why are you not just playing a druid?

what I do want to focus on for the ranger is the following 2

Buffing out and up the 2 combat styles (yes I do want the archery style to be a bit better, that is just how I feel the ranger should be better at ranged but still capable in melee, but not gimping yourself if you chose to play melee)

and thinking of ways to enrichen favored enemy.

any thoughts or additions to what I have in this rant is much appreciated.

Psilulz
2012-05-14, 01:04 AM
3.5 ranger is indeed a tad weak...
-like the animal companion change
-agree that spell don't need to be touched
-perhaps they could have a Nature's Blessing kind of thing (although that sounds kinda druid-ish), where they could choose to add dmg to their atks, or some other kind of bonuses. maybe emulate animalistic qualities, like scent, various modes of movement, natural armor, stealth bonus, etc., lasting some amount of time (perhaps different for each aspect) x/day, gaining more as you gain higher levels. Perhaps these could improve as you level as well.
-FE could use some upgrading, although there are some nifty feats that help there. Perhaps a supernatural sense where you just know if one of your FE is nearby, although not necessarily exactly where. perhaps bonuses to overcome various sense, like tremorsense and blindsight. maybe an insight bonus to ac vs ur FE.
-do combat styles still grant feats on top of these bonuses? not sure about temp hp... doesn't really make sense where they get it from imo. maybe a dodge bonus to ac from whirlin' about.
-don't like deadly aim. for one, the spot check is a free action, so unless i'm mistaken, may be done between every attack, which at 16, will be a lot. it could also probably be done again if you happen to fail that spot check. the fort save should be 1/2 ranger lvl + wis mod + 10 for consitancy and simplicity. this also seems realllllly strong... would suggest instead to maybe making it a crit, or perhaps increasing the crit range of the weapon or something along those lines. reducing the CR 20 crazy hp boss to 3 hp in one shot is just too much. spot isnt all that difficult to optomize. would also suggest maybe limiting this to x/day or encounter or something, or perhaps making it take longer (swift or move action).

Grod_The_Giant
2012-05-14, 09:36 AM
1. Good, good.

2. You should probably set the ranger's CL equal to, say, his class level -3, but other than that, yeah, spells are fine, no need to make him a druid-lite.

3. Favored terrain is cool. In addition to favored enemies, yes? I would keep the mentioned abilities, though-- they may not come into play that much, but they're major flavor-aspects, and not entirely useless. Scent is cool. But elemental damage?... I don't know, flaming weapons scream "arcane caster," to me, not "nature." The extra d6 won't help damage that much, either.

4. "My father was an adventurer too, who was killed by the Eye of Tyrannical Longings. I was only seven years old when his allies brought home the urn containing his disintegrated ashes, but on that day, I swore an oath to see that beholder dead, no matter what I had to do."

...and that's why I took Favored Enemy: Aberrations at level 1. Other than that, though, I find it hard to comment on the favored enemy changes, given that you mention changes to the bonuses elsewhere. I will say that I hope you boosted their power a lot, given how few of them you get.

5. I'll go level-by-level here:

Bonus damage is ok.
Temporary hitpoints is a very nice ability... but it doesn't quite fit the ranger. He's a skirmisher, not a tank, even if he takes the TWF style.
Threatening Squares is... well, way too strong for level 6. I gave a similar ability in my ranger fix at level 15, and limited it to half a range increment. This... this is "can I see it move? I attack it!" And you'll have a high dex and Combat Reflexes (and you will take that feat at 6th, no matter how starved you are, with this ability), so you'll be making a lot of AoO. Even if there are big range penalties, it's worth trying.
Swift Attacker is good.
Master Shot/Eagle Claw are both good, but should probably have gone in at first level.
Deadly Aim is...interesting. As Psilulz pointed out, you can do it on every attack. On the other hand, you have the Truenamer-type problem where the DC to use the ability scales twice as fast as your ability to hit it does. But if you can reliably hit a DC 50 check (and I'm sure a decent optimizer could), this is devastating.
Bladed Flurry is terrible, both in comparison to Deadly Aim and on its own. Yay, I hit 16th level and I get one extra attack per round, maybe! How about letting him make a full attack at any point he could make a normal attack? (AoO, charge, standard action, etc).



(yes I do want the archery style to be a bit better, that is just how I feel the ranger should be better at ranged but still capable in melee, but not gimping yourself if you chose to play melee)

No offense, but... this is a poor way to design a class with options. "Yes, I did want this one choice to be better than the others. Why? Because that's how I feel the class should be played." If you feel that strongly, then eliminate the TWF track altogether-- it's your revision, after all. Otherwise, please try to balance the different options inherent in your own class. It's just... silly, otherwise.

ngilop
2012-05-14, 01:48 PM
2), isn't that what the rangers CL is already? or have i been doing a houserule all these years and never noticed ( this is entirely possible)

3)we are going to have to agree to disagree on teh elemental weapon qualities, as I feel that they are very nature warrior oriented, awhile you feel they are arcane caster oriented.

4) yes the bonus are larger, and applies ot saves AC as well as more skills in addition to what teh standard FE bonuses give. and comes with the following, each attack makes the target shaken, and eventually each attack threatens a critical ( even if the FE is normally immune to criticals) GAH i wish I could find that thread but those thrice-dammned errors i get when trying to search...

5) Ok, so if I toned down Deadly shot to deal an additional 3 damage per ranger level , and made it a swift action it would be more 'balanced'. and Bladed flurry you can get up to 3 addditional attacks with that. but IF that is not enough what do your propose (besdies giving them full attacks as AoOs) that is the equivalent of

zegram 33
2012-05-15, 07:27 AM
the deadly aim wording seem's...complicated to me, but others seem to be able to undesrstand it so thats probably just me.
what about some kind of freedom of movement effect at higher levels as a kind of improved woodland stride?
maybe efevn a scaling effect for your favored terrain, so whilst your in your favored terrain you gain various benefits?

Straybow
2012-05-17, 05:31 PM
Please clarify what the fort save of "DC 10+1/2 spot check" means. Whose spot check? The Ranger's spot check DC? The Ranger's spot check roll? The creature's spot check on the Ranger, to see the attack coming? How does a spot check apply to a fort save? I would suggest basing the save on something else that makes better sense.

Deadly Aim is an almost insta-kill that doesn't require a crit. It is essentially a BBEG nullifier, and that's too much. It would stack with all kinds of sneak attacks and stuff that make it way too much. For those who don't really like uber-attack abilities it should:
[LIST=1]
Only be applicable in the first range increment.
Require the successful spot check at DC 10+2xCR. The first attempt is a free action. Any retries take time equivalent to a move action, but are not themselves move actions for determining AoOs, etc.
Require the successful spot check be followed by a ready action to target the chosen enemy. Your attack then takes place at the initiation of the target's next turn or an action it takes prior to its turn that would provoke an AoO if the ranger were in an adjacent tile.
Require the next attack or standard action discharge or dismiss the ready action.
As a surprise round action, the ready action can be followed by an immediate single attack as a standard attack action. If using feats or abilities to enable multiple attacks of any sort the ranger must await normal turn order. In an ambush the ready action can precede the surprise round if the ranger can perform the spot check on the target and take the ready action with the weapon before the surprise round, and then feats or abilities that enable multiple attacks as a standard action can be applied.
Impose a penalty to hit of ĹCR of the target for "monsters," or for typical bipeds, apply a bonus to AC for aiming at a diminutive vulnerability (+2 in SRD) and a Ė2 to hit for each condition that would limit vulnerability: full or visored helmet; armor covering vital organs of the torso; armor covering crotch/femoral arteries or equivalent; and for each step of fortification (lt, med, hv) if magically fortified armor.
Allow the target of a successful hit a choice of reflex or fort save, unless the ranger is not visible or not noticed by the target, or the target is in the first actual range increment (not ranges treated as the first increment), or the target is surprised or otherwise unable to anticipate attack or use a Dex-based reaction (not merely flat-footed) or is engaged by another opponent in a tile that does not share a side with the tile through which the line of sight of the ranged attack is drawn. Failure knocks the creature down to 1 HP for each HD, level, or equivalent. Successful save means target takes normal damage, no situational bonus damage for flanking, sneak attack, etc.
Allow the successful reflex save above to nullify the damage with evasion, deflect arrows, fortified armor, or similar protective abilities or magic.
Determine a damage potential for the attack, including situational bonuses, ignoring damage reduction.
Determine the virtual damage, which is the hit point differential caused by the attack (preceding HP Ė remaining HP). Even if this exceeds the amount for massive damage or similar optional damage rules, such rules do not apply. Virtual damage is treated as normal damage in most cases. A single healing event (day of rest, spell, potion, or similar power) administered to the target in an amount at least equal to the damage potential restores any virtual damage not yet healed by other healing events.
All attacks in the same round or attack sequence as a Deadly Aim attack deal normal damage, with no bonuses for flanking, sneak attacks, or other situational modifiers.
Be nullified by blur and similar effects.
Be nullified by invulnerability to crits.

#3: You are taking extra time to aim and await an advantageous moment to loose your attack
#6: You are focusing your attack on an eye, throat, or other small vulnerability.
#7-8: The target who is aware of your attack can better nullify it.
#9-10: The effect is greater than the actual damage inflicted, and a healing event that covers the actual damage removes the entire effect.

ngilop
2012-06-19, 11:45 PM
{table=head]Level|Archery|Dual wield | Progression
2nd|Bonus Damage|Temporary HP|Combat Style|
6th|Threatening Archer,Master Shot |Swift attacker, Eagle Claw|Improved Combat Style|
11th||Bladed Flurry|Supreme Combat Style|
16th|Deadly Aim||Combat Style Mastery|
[/table]

Bonus dmg: the first successful attack in an encounter deals an extra amount of damage equal to the ranger's clas level

Temporary HP: the first successful attack in an encounter gives the Ranger temporary bonus HP equal to 3+2 per Ranger class level.

Threatening archer: The ranger is considering threatening squares as if he were in melee with teh same rule as for regular flanking, as long as the ranger is within 60 feet of his target and the ally he is flanking with.

Swift Attacker: The ranger can make an attack with both equipped weapons as a standard action

Master shot/Eagel claw: the rangers add dex midifer to damage done with his weapons

Bladed Flurry: Upon a succesful attack with both his main and off-hand weapon, the ranger gains a bonus attack with his main hand weapon


Deadly Aim: upon a succesful spot check ( as a swift action) of DC 15+ CR of opponentthe ranger's next successful attack against the opponent in that round deals an extra 3d6 /+1 level additional damage and staggers the creature struck. the opponent must succeed on a fortifude save at DC 10+1/2 dmg done to negate the staggered effect..


OK i changed it up a little to better put things in different levels of combat style mastery-ness, only now I am at a loss on what to repalce the blank slost with.

so I am asking for help in this endeavor :)

ngilop
2012-11-07, 11:47 PM
Ok this is what I have NOW for my combat style 'fixes' Just came here to see if any of you can add to since my class re-tool don't get too mucha tentin (well apart form soem monomyth bashing stuff that is till do not comprehend...) the part that is spoilered is where I cannot come up with something.

Combat Style (Ex): At 2nd level, a ranger must select one of two combat styles to pursue: archery or two-weapon combat. This choice affects the characterís class features but does not restrict his selection of feats or special abilities in any way.

If the ranger selects archery, he is treated as having the Rapid Shot feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. Also, the first successful attack in an encounter deal extra damage equal to his Ranger levels

If the ranger selects two-weapon combat, he is treated as having the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. Also, the first succesful attack in an encounter gives the Ranger bonus temporary HP equal to his ranger level. These HP last untill the end of the encounter or enough damage is dealt.

The benefits of the rangerís chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor.


Improved Combat Style (Ex): At 6th level, a rangerís aptitude in his chosen combat style (archery or two-weapon combat) improves. If he selected archery at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Manyshot feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. In addtion all Archery related attacks deal additional damage equal to the Ranger's Dexterity modifier. The ranger is considering threatening squares as if he were in melee in regards in determining if allies can use him to get flanking benefits, as long as the ranger is within 30 feet of his target and the ally he is flanking with.


If the ranger selected two-weapon combat at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. The ranger can now make an attack with both equipped weapons as a standard action. In addtion all attacks while dual wielding deal additional damage equal to the Ranger's Dexterity modifier.

As before, the benefits of the rangerís chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor.


Supreme Combat Style (Ex): At 11th level, a rangerís aptitude in his chosen combat style (archery or two-weapon combat) improves again. If he selected archery at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Improved Precise Shot and Woodland Archer feats, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for those feats. In addition the Ranger Gets a cool ability


If the ranger selected two-weapon combat at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and Double Hit feats, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for those feats. In addition the Ranger, upon a succesful attack with both his main and off-hand weapon, the ranger gains a bonus attack with his main hand weapon at a -5 penalty, this attack deals an addition 2d4 + 1 damage per ranger level.

As before, the benefits of the rangerís chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor.


Combat Style Mastery (Ex): At 16th level, a rangerís aptitude in his chosen combat style (archery or two-weapon combat) improves again. If he selected archery at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Penetrating Shot and Greater Manyshot feats, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for those feats. In addition the Ranger can, upon a succesful spot check ( as a swift action) of DC 15+ CR of opponent, next successful attack against the opponent in that round deals an extra 3d6 /+1 level additional damage and checks the creature struck (flyers are blown back 10 feet). the opponent must succeed on a fortifude save at DC 10+1/2 damage done to negate the checked effect

If the ranger selected two-weapon combat at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Greater Two-Weapon Defense feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. In addition the Ranger Gets a really cool ability


As before, the benefits of the rangerís chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor.