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View Full Version : New leveling system; Base Idea



Madara
2012-05-21, 05:16 PM
So I have this idea to streamline leveling. So it isn't "I am level 4", its "I am stage 2 level 4"

Now to explain the stages. Let's make a class, shall we;

Here's the barbarian, up to level 5.


Barbarian
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+1|+2|+0|+0|Rage 1/day, Fast Movement, Illiteracy

2nd|+2|+3|+0|+0|Uncanny Dodge

3rd|+3|+3|+1|+1|Trap Sense +1

4th|+4|+4|+1|+1|Rage 2/day

5th|+5|+4|+1|+1|Improved Uncanny Dodge

[/table]
Alignment: Nonlawful
Hit Die: 1d12

Class Skills:
Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Ride (Dex), Survival (Wis),and Swim (Str).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: fight...blah...light...armor...blah...blah

Fast Movement (Ex): run...blah...fast...no armor..blah

Illiteracy: Negative class benefit...blah.

Rage (Ex): blah blah blah, angry...blah blah...strength

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Reflex...blah...blah

Trap Sense (Ex): limited use...blah...blah..reflex...blah..traps

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Better Uncanny dodge


4th level is at 6,000xp, and 5th is at 10,000

In the old system, a 4th level barbarian(With 8,000xp) would have +4 BAB, Rage, Fast movement..ect

In the new one, because they are at a certain point in xp, they gain an ability from the next level. Let's say they gain the +5 BAB of 5th level.

-They don't gain any more benefits from the next level until 5th level, and when 5th level comes, they won't have any extra abilities than a normal 5th level barbarian(at 10,000xp). But when they reach a certain point between their levels, they gain one of the abilities from 6th level...and so on.

In another scenario, the rogue chooses to gain their skill points for the next level at 8,000xp. The same progress follows with no extra benefits at 5th level, but it makes XP matter more.

My goal would be to allow the classes system to progress smoother, without those "Yay, I leveled, and I suddenly swing my sword better than a minute ago." moments.

Ideally, I would only make slight adjustments to the current classes(SRD ones only), which would act as part of this new system. The changes would be very easy to make for any class, meaning I wouldn't have to do all of them.

Flaws: I will be the first to admit, I don't adamantly follow the XP system, I'm one of those people who eyeballs it and calls it when people level. But for a group in which you already keep track of XP for crafting this would make the melee non-crafters stand toe-to-toe with the "XP is a river" people, by giving them some early benefits.

Again, this is a concept at this point. And I may not even make any class fixes. But, its an idea that wouldn't be too hard for others to implement.

LordErebus12
2012-05-21, 05:22 PM
i for one dont like this, seems too... pointless, to me

Stickit2me
2012-05-21, 05:29 PM
I do like the idea of "small victories" for the players, but leveling up already puts a grinding halt to the game and doing it 4 or 5 more times per level is a bit daunting.

LordErebus12
2012-05-21, 05:34 PM
I do like the idea of "small victories" for the players, but leveling up already puts a grinding halt to the game and doing it 4 or 5 more times per level is a bit daunting.

then require players to level AFTER the game, like everyone i know personally does. leveling takes less than 10 mins to those who know what they are doing or are actually leveling instead of wasting time (usually they are talking too much or surfing internet, in my experience).

define 4 or more times a level...

Stickit2me
2012-05-21, 05:45 PM
If they leveled "a little bit" each level as per the OP's idea, then they would be contemplating their changes, adding skill points, re-working the math many more times per level.

I do like your idea of leveling between sessions. I end up having to help everyone level anyway since they are 80% newbies to the game and dont spend their afternoons thinking of new characters or ways to change the rules like many of us on this forum :)

LordErebus12
2012-05-21, 05:52 PM
If they leveled "a little bit" each level as per the OP's idea, then they would be contemplating their changes, adding skill points, re-working the math many more times per level.

I do like your idea of leveling between sessions. I end up having to help everyone level anyway since they are 80% newbies to the game and dont spend their afternoons thinking of new characters or ways to change the rules like many of us on this forum :)

better for them to learn the rules as presented, in my opinion.

leveling any character other than your own is bad DMing, it limits their experience with reading and committing the rules to memory; and restricts valuable planning and roleplaying time.

also, always designate an experienced player to assist (not to do it, just assist with it and clarify rules as necessary) with building and leveling (if it is done during game, although i really don't recommend it). they can learn much more by doing it themselves than if someone constantly tells them a 'good choice' for the character and it makes the character less theirs.

Stickit2me
2012-05-21, 05:55 PM
More good advice.

Thanks!

LordErebus12
2012-05-21, 06:03 PM
More good advice.

Thanks!

you're welcome. i had to learn a lot of this on the fly over my 7+ years of DMing. enjoy your free rare candies.

LordErebus12
2012-05-21, 06:07 PM
also, if you can shoulder the burden on an experienced player, have them go over the character with you and the player present, well before the game.

this allows you to catch anything that might not work as they thought, or doesnt actually work for the build; be it a broken rule, too many selected feats, an error in a spell casting, etc. or even unsuitable for the campaign.

also, while on the topic of spells, never EVER let a brand new player create a spellcaster (even rangers and bards). it will never work, be very slow in casting and combat WILL suffer, and the rules will be butchered by mistakes.

Yitzi
2012-05-21, 06:12 PM
You're just spreading out the levels.

If you want to avoid the "I can now fight significantly better than a moment ago" phenomenon, the way to do it is to require significant training to level; this will also prevent the "1 to 20 in a year" phenomenon and make for a much more realistic feel (and also less of a grindfest feel, which you definitely want if you're going for a more interesting game.)

LordErebus12
2012-05-21, 06:14 PM
You're just spreading out the levels.

If you want to avoid the "I can now fight significantly better than a moment ago" phenomenon, the way to do it is to require significant training to level; this will also prevent the "1 to 20 in a year" phenomenon and make for a much more realistic feel (and also less of a grindfest feel, which you definitely want if you're going for a more interesting game.)

what about ignoring experience?

they may level when you say so, or when they defeat a massive encounter or a 'boss' battle. again, always have them do the leveling after the game to not waste your limited time.

Madara
2012-05-21, 07:19 PM
I do like the idea of "small victories" for the players, but leveling up already puts a grinding halt to the game and doing it 4 or 5 more times per level is a bit daunting.

That's the thing. It would only be 1-2 times each level. And its only one ability. We're not talking "Everyone pick your skills, feats, add up your special abilities". Its simpler than that. It's "Your BAB increased by one"

That doesn't bring the game to a grinding halt. If anything, by spreading out the leveling up, it should eliminate the grinding halt problem.

As-is, the game almost requires that you plan your entire build ahead of time, so knowing what your next level will be shouldn't be more of a problem than it is now.


If they leveled "a little bit" each level as per the OP's idea, then they would be contemplating their changes, adding skill points, re-working the math many more times per level.

Not too much. You're overthinking my change. Its not too much. The italicized section would only be in the scenario of skill points. There would be no huge recalculations, only the skills. That won't take more than 3 min of your 3 hour session.




You're just spreading out the levels.

Yep. That's my goal. That way the 500xp I got matters. It also makes the cost of magic items in XP weaken crafters rather than evening out, because that extra bit of XP the melee has makes them stronger(Still doesn't eliminate the tier problems, but that wasn't my goal)



what about ignoring experience?

they may level when you say so, or when they defeat a massive encounter or a 'boss' battle. again, always have them do the leveling after the game to not waste your limited time.

I covered that. Not everyone uses every house rule/ homebrew change. Obviously those who don't follow the XP system won't find this attractive.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2012-05-22, 01:38 PM
This only works if you standardize it for, say, hit points and skill points, and maybe feats/ability advancement. Things that everyone gets at the same time.

Because since not all classes advance BaB, saves, or class features at every level, advancing those things makes that experience mean more to player A than it does to player B, which is, in my mind, a bad thing. DEFINITELY don't let them pick and choose...casters don't need spells earlier, for example.

However, I feel this is needless complexity. I'd just give out Action Points as a reward on a regular basis, and maybe allow them to be spent to gain the benefits of a feat, an extra move action, or a bonus to a roll (and/or a re-roll). Then players still feel rewarded by their progress, but they're rewarded in a less complex and more useful (to all players equally) way.

LordErebus12
2012-05-22, 11:07 PM
However, I feel this is needless complexity. I'd just give out Action Points as a reward on a regular basis, and maybe allow them to be spent to gain the benefits of a feat, an extra move action, or a bonus to a roll (and/or a re-roll). Then players still feel rewarded by their progress, but they're rewarded in a less complex and more useful (to all players equally) way.

i agree totally. reward any truely brilliant bit of RP or a wise decision or action, give them a free AP. always reward such behaviors, and they will keep coming. also, become really descriptive with how the action point takes effect.

lets say the cleric had been flat footed in last battle, nearly leading to the death of a party member. they make a vow, outloud, praying to the gods for greater reaction, potentially allowing him to save his friends and allies. the gods grant his wish, they grant the improved initiative in the next battle to the cleric. (he choose the feat for one battle, cost one point.)

it was worked in and makes RP sense, and grants the ability, mechanics hidden from gameplay.