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Techwarrior
2012-05-23, 06:47 PM
The Mage Slayer

Iíve killed plenty of spellcasters in my time. None of their spells helped them. Do you really think yours will help you? Vandilyn Windblown, Elven Mage Slayer

Mage Slayers are the kind of thing that a spellcaster comes to fear, if only through exaggerated (hopefully) tales of the atrocities committed against spellcasters. Most specialize in ranged combat, shooting from a distance and striking down casters before they know the Mage Slayer is there. Some Mage Slayers like to see the blood of their enemies and spend their training on ways to put their enemies on a sword.

Game Rule Information:
Hit Dice: d6
Skills per level: 6+Int
Skills: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Disable Device, Disguise, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (the planes), Listen, Move Silently, Open Lock, Profession, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Spellcraft, Survival, Swim, Tumble, and Use Rope

{table=head] Level | Base Attack Bonus | Fortitude | Reflex | Will | Class Features

1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 2 | Disruptive Strike, Bonus Feat
2 | 1 | 0 | 3 | 3 | Evasion
3 | 2 | 1 | 3 | 3 | Track, Breaking and Entering
4 | 3 | 1 | 4 | 4 | Bonus Feat
5 | 3 | 1 | 4 | 4 | Dispelling Strike
6 | 4 | 2 | 5 | 5 | Sniper
7 | 5 | 2 | 5 | 5 | Bonus Feat, Hitchhiker
8 | 6/1 | 2 | 6 | 6 | Pincushion
9 | 6/1 | 3 | 6 | 6 | Guarded Body and Mind
10 | 7/2 | 3 | 7 | 7 | Bonus Feat, Mystic Stealth
11 | 8/3 | 3 | 7 | 7 | Dispelling Strike (Greater), Improved Pincushion
12 | 9/4 | 4 | 8 | 8 | Stripping Strike +1
13 | 9/4 | 4 | 8 | 8 | Bonus Feat, Wind Step
14 | 10/5 | 4 | 9 | 9 | Stripping Strike +2
15 | 11/6/1 | 5 | 9 | 9 | Guarded Soul
16 | 12/7/2 | 5 | 10 | 10 | Bonus Feat, Stripping Strike +3
17 | 12/7/2 | 5 | 10 | 10 | Dispelling Strike (Superior)
18 | 13/8/3 | 6 | 11 | 11 | Stripping Strike +4
19 | 14/9/4 | 6 | 11 | 11 | Bonus Feat
20 | 15/10/5 | 6 | 12 | 12 | Mage Slayer
[/table]

Class Features:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Mage Slayers are proficient with simple and martial weapons. Mage Slayers are proficient in light armor, but not with shields.
Bonus Feats: At 1st level, and every 3 levels after that, a Mage Slayer gains a bonus feat that she may use to better combat mages. This includes Fighter bonus feats or one the Mage Slayer feats listed below. A Mage Slayer must qualify for these feats as normal.
Disruptive Strike (su): A Mage Slayer has trained long and hard at harnessing her will power to killing mages. A Mage Slayer does additional damage equal to half her class level (minimum 1) plus her Intelligence modifier to all damage against any enemy provided they have some ability with magic. Even with the Intelligence bonus, this may not be higher than the Mage Slayer's class level +1 (the Improved Disruptive Strike feat's bonus damage is not included). Spell slots, spell like abilities, and psionics all qualify you as a target for the purposes of this ability.
Evasion (ex): A Mage Slayer learns to avoid magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the Mage Slayer is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless Mage Slayer does not gain the benefit of evasion.
Track: Mage Slayers occasionally have to find their prey before turning them into quivers. A Mage Slayer gains Track as a bonus feat at 3rd level.
Breaking and Entering (ex): Sometimes Mage Slayers have to break into a mageís sanctum after she has had time to prepare. Mages seem to be fond of placing traps in their lairs (especially those mages with oodles of time). A 3rd level Mage Slayer can find traps with DCís higher than 20, as if they were a rogue. The Mage Slayer can even find and disable spells that ward an area from intrusion or warn of such intrusion (such as Hallow and Alarm). The Search and Disable Device DC's for this are 25+spell level. When a Mage Slayer gets within 20 feet of such an area, he may make a Spot check (DC 25+spell level) to notice the spell. She is also capable of breaking into extra dimensional areas that a mage might be hiding. Any time mage casts a spell that creates an extra-dimensional space and that leaves an entryway (such as Rope Trick or Magnificent Mansion), a Mage Slayer may find it and open it. This requires a Search check equal to 25+Spell Level to find the opening mechanism (this check is required even if there is a visible indication of the entryway), and an Open Locks check at the same DC to open it. The Mage Slayer may then open the doorway as if they were the original caster.
This ability also counts as Trapfinding for prerequisite purposes.
Dispelling Strike (su): A Mage Slayer may make an attack that will strip its target of ongoing magic. Make an attack roll and if you hit, you dispel magic affecting the target. Treat this as Dispel Magic with a caster level equal to your class level, only the targeted dispel can be used. This costs one use of this ability.
Alternatively, you may ready an attack, as if you were readying a counterspell. When the target of your counterspell attempts to cast his spell, you make an attack roll, which if you succeed immediately counters the spell in addition to dealing damage. This uses 1 use of Dispelling Strike.
These abilities may be used a total number of times per day equal to half of your class level plus your Intelligence modifier.
Sniper (ex): Striking accurately pays off, even against non-casters. A 6th level Mage Slayer adds her Dexterity bonus to damage rolls for bows (but not crossbows), this is in addition to all other damage, including Strength damage from being a mighty composite bow. In addition, a Mage Slayer ignores all concealment and miss chance granted by spells, can see through invisibility granted by a spell (but not from being on another plane, such as from being ethereal), and can tell which image is real when looking at a Mirror Image spell.
Hitchhiker (su): Most people have a point where they wish to get out of a situation, mages tend to use magic to do so. Whenever a magic user that the Mage Slayer is both withing 50 feet of and has line of effect to uses a spell or effect that shifts the mages location (most notably Conjuration (teleport) spells), a 7th level Mage Slayer may attempt to Hitchhike as an immediate action. This requires a Reflex save at the DC the spell or effect would have had to activate. If the Reflex save is successful, the Mage Slayer may expend one use of Dispelling Strike to follow the caster. Your actual destination will be 3d10x10 ft. (or the maximum available distance) away from the caster a random direction away. You are unable to be percieved by any means until your next action, even if that action is to delay or go back. If the situation is not to your liking your next action may be to go back to your original location at a cost of one more useof Dispelling Strike. If you do not use this chance to go back you must find your own way.
Pincushion (ex): Magic users have this annoying tendency to cast spells that grant them flight capabilities. If a Mage Slayer of 8th level or higher hits with an arrow at a target in the air, the target must make an immediate reflex save or fall. The DC is 10+1/2 her Mage Slayer level+Int modifier. The reflex save DC increases by 2 for each additional arrow that strikes the target, but only 1 save is rolled per round. However, for every size category the target is larger than the Mage Slayer, they recieve a +4 size bonus to their reflex save (larger targets are harder to knock from the sky).
Guarded Body and Mind (su): In order to better protect themselves from magic, Mage Slayers train both their bodies and mind to endure things that kill most others. A 9th level Mage Slayer gains a bonus to saves versus death effects as well as all spells with the [Mind-Affecting] descriptor. This bonus starts at +5 and improves by 1 every 2 Mage Slayer levels after 9.
Mystic Stealth (su): A Mage Slayer is capable of sneaking through spells that ward an area from intrusion (such as Glyph of Warding), have negative effects for intruders (such as Hallow or Forbiddance) or warn of such intrusion (such as Alarm). If the Mage Slayer succeeds at a Hide check versus a DC of 25+Spell Level, the Mage Slayer does not trigger any effects of the spell. For every 4 points that the Mage Slayer's Hide check is above the DC, she may obscure an ally from the spell in addition to herself.
Dispelling Strike (Greater): For 2 uses of Dispelling Strike you may make your shot similar to Greater Dispel Magic instead of Dispel Magic.
Improved Pincushion (su): When you use pincushion, in addition to the normal benefits, you also immediately dispel any magical flight that may be keeping the target aloft. (Unlike normal dispelling of flight spells, there is no slow descent)
Stripping Strike (su): Any attack a Mage Slayer of at least 12th level makes can be imbued with his determination to strike down spellcasters. A Mage Slayer may attempt to strip magic from a caster with any attack. For every use of Dispelling Strike the Mage Slayer chooses to expend (this is limited by the number listed after Stripping Arrow) the target loses one spell as if he had been subject to a negative level. The target takes 2 points of damage for each spell level lost to this ability but is allowed a Fortitude save DC 10+1/2 Mage Slayer level+Int mod for half damage.
A creature with spell-like abilities, but not spells, loses one use of their highest level spell-like ability. If the creature's highest level spell-like ability left is an at-will spell-like abilities, the creature may not use that spell-like ability for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 the Mage Slayer's class levels. The target takes 2 points of damage for each spell level lost to this ability. The target is allowed a Fortitude save DC 10+1/2 Mage Slayer level+Int mod for half damage.
Wind Step (su): A 13th level Mage Slayer is able to use a great burst of speed in order to elude certain effects. When a mage casts a spell that manipulates an area or creates some kind of object in the area (such as Forcecage, or any of the Wall of X spells), the Mage Slayer may attempt to Wind Step as an immediate action. This requires a Reflex save at the DC the spell or effect would have had to activate. If the Reflex save is successful, the Mage Slayer may expend one use of Dispelling Strike to move her speed in order to get out of the area of effect.
Guarded Soul (su): A 15th level Mage Slayer has become so effective at negating magic that it becomes difficult to affect a Mage Slayer with all magic. She has spell resistance 10+ her Mage Slayer level.
Dispelling Strike (Superior) (su): For 6 uses of Dispelling Strike, a Mage Slayer can use her Dispelling Strike ability to dispel all ongoing effects on a target without any dispel checks.
Mage Slayer: There is nothing more feared by magic users than a Mage Slayers, and there is no Mage Slayer more frightening than one of 20th level. You gain 2 additional uses of your Dispelling Strike ability per day and your Stripping Strike cap is raised to 5. All weapons wielded by a Mage Slayer are treated as weapons aligned like herself (if she is lawful evil, her weapons are lawful and evil aligned), and bypass DR magic. In addition, a Mage Slayer may enchant a weapon with the Antimage enchantment.
A Mage Slayer may only have one Antimage enchantment at a time, and each such enchantment is attuned to a single target.
The target must be one that qualifies her Disruptive Strike ability. In addition, she must have come into contact with the subject (seeing the target is good enough, even if through magical means).
The weapon takes one day to enchant and requires 12 uses of Dispelling Strike to power. These are permanently used until the Mage Slayer dismisses the enchantment (a free action) or the enchantment affects its target.
Antimage
Overwhelming Necromancy, CL 20
When the weapon hits the target that it is attuned to a swirling mass of darkness overwhelms the target, after a few seconds the darkness dissipates. (a bow bestows the enchantment on its ammuntion). It is treated as a +5 weapon that bypasses all DR and regeneration that the target has except DR/-, and is treated as having alignment based damage properties (anarchic, axiomatic, holy, unholy) according to the Mage Slayers alignment (in the above example her arrow would be axiomatic and unholy) in addition to any other properties. Assuming the target survives the arrow's damage, the target is subjected to three additional effects.
A Dispelling Strike (Superior) affects the target.
The target is completely stripped of all casting. The targets spell slots, spell-like abilities, and psionics are all affected as if by Stripping Strike, although the target takes no damage from the spell slot loss. Since this is a weapon enchantment, no ability that alters Stripping Strike or Dispelling Strike may be used in tandem with this enchantment.
The target must make a Fortitude save DC 10+1/2 Mage Slayer level+Int Mod or be considered to have no caster level for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 the Mage Slayer's class levels.

After affecting the target once the enchantment is removed from the weapon.

Techwarrior
2012-05-23, 06:50 PM
Mage Slayer Feats

Incredibly Guarded Soul
Prerequisites: Guarded Soul
Benefit: Your Spell resistance granted by Guarded Soul increases by 3 points.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, the effect stacks.
Improved Disruptive Strike
Prerequisites: Disruptive Strike
Benefit: Your Disruptive Strike deals 2 additional damage. Additionally, attacks that qualify for Disruptive Strike bypass DR/magic.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, for each time the feat is taken, your Disruptive Strike deals 2 additional damage and all attacks that qualify for Disruptive Strike bypass an additional DR type chosen when you take this feat. You may not choose DR/epic unless you are at least 15th level and you may not choose DR/- ever. Each time this feat is taken, the next one requires 3 Mage Slayer levels. For example if you have this feat 3 times, to take it a fourth time you must be at least a 9th level Mage Slayer.
Improved Dispelling Strike
Prerequisites: Dispelling Strike
Benefit: Your effective caster level for your Dispelling Strike ability is increased by 2; in addition the caster level cap for Dispelling Strike and Dispelling Strike (Greater) is increased by 2
Special: This feat can be taken multiple times, the effect stacks.
Extra Dispelling Strike
Prerequisites: Dispelling Strike
Benefit: You can use your Dispelling Strike ability 3 additional times per day
Special: This feat can be taken multiple times, the effect stacks.
Fiery Dispelling
Prerequisites: Dispelling Strike
Benefit: When you are using Stripping Strike or Dispelling Strike, you may choose to spend 1 additional use to deal additional fire damage. For each spell level dispelled using either of these abilities, the target takes 1d4 fire damage for each level of the spell that was dispelled, with a maximum of 1d4 per Dispelling Strike caster level. (counterspelling a spell with Dispelling Strike can trigger this ability). On a successful reflex save (DC 10+1/2 Mage Slayer level+Int modifier), this effect deals half damage.
Special: This feat can be taken a total of 5 times, each time it is taken the dice dealt by the effect increases 1 step (1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 1d12) and the DC increases by 1.
Corrosive Dispelling
Prerequisites: Dispelling Strike
Benefit: When you are using Stripping Strike or Dispelling Strike, you may choose to spend 1 additional use to deal additional acid damage. For each spell level dispelled using either of these abilities, the target takes 1d4 acid damage for each level of the spell that was dispelled, with a maximum of 1d4 per Dispelling Strike caster level. (counterspelling a spell with Dispelling Strike can trigger this ability). On a successful reflex save (DC 10+1/2 Mage Slayer level+Int modifier), this effect deals half damage.
Special: This feat can be taken a total of 5 times, each time it is taken the dice dealt by the effect increases 1 step (1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 1d12) and the DC increases by 1
Freezing Dispelling
Prerequisites: Dispelling Strike
Benefit: When you are using Stripping Strike or Dispelling Strike, you may choose to spend 1 additional use to deal additional cold damage. For each spell level dispelled using either of these abilities, the target takes 1d4 cold damage for each level of the spell that was dispelled, with a maximum of 1d4 per Dispelling Strike caster level. (counterspelling a spell with Dispelling Strike can trigger this ability). On a successful reflex save (DC 10+1/2 Mage Slayer level+Int modifier), this effect deals half damage.
Special: This feat can be taken a total of 5 times, each time it is taken the dice dealt by the effect increases 1 step (1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 1d12) and the DC increases by 1
Charged Dispelling
Prerequisites: Dispelling Strike
Benefit: When you are using Stripping Strike or Dispelling Strike, you may choose to spend 1 additional use to deal additional electric damage. For each spell level dispelled using either of these abilities, the target takes 1d4 electric damage for each level of the spell that was dispelled, with a maximum of 1d4 per Dispelling Strike caster level. (counterspelling a spell with Dispelling Strike can trigger this ability). On a successful reflex save (DC 10+1/2 Mage Slayer level+Int modifier), this effect deals half damage.
Special: This feat can be taken a total of 5 times, each time it is taken the dice dealt by the effect increases 1 step (1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 1d12) and the DC increases by 1
Superior Pincushion
Prerequisites: Improved Pincushion
Benefit: When using the Pincushion ability the damage you deal is doubled. In addition the save DC is increased by 1.
Improved Hitchhiker
Prerequisites: Hitchhiker
Benefit: When using the Hitchhiker ability, the Mage Slayer need not expend any uses of Dispelling Strike to activate the ability, nor to return to where he Hitchhiked from. In addition, the time that the Mage Slayer has to return back to where he Hitchhiked from is extended to a number of rounds equal to half the Mage Slayer's class levels. In this case, returning takes a Standard Action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Force Dispelling
Prerequisites: One of: Charged Dispelling, Corrosive Dispelling, Fiery Dispelling, or Freezing Dispelling
Benefit: At your option, half of the damage dealt by your prerequisite feat deals Force damage instead of the original type.
Brilliant Dispelling
Prerequisites: One of: Charged Dispelling, Corrosive Dispelling, Fiery Dispelling, or Freezing Dispelling
Benefit: At your option, half of the damage dealt by your prerequisite feat deals Light damage instead of the original type. Creatures vulnerable to light take twice as much light damage as normal from this effect.
Cacophonous Dispelling
Prerequisites: One of: Charged Dispelling, Corrosive Dispelling, Fiery Dispelling, or Freezing Dispelling
Benefit: At your option, half of the damage dealt by your prerequisite feat deals Sonic damage instead of the original type.
Studied Stalker
Prerequisites: Track, Int 13+
Benefit: You may add your Intelligence modifier to Survival, Spot, and Listen checks instead of your Wisdom modifier.

Glimbur
2012-05-24, 04:39 PM
d6 hit die and 6+ skills suggest that it's a rogue but less so. 3/4 BAB reinforces that. Good Ref and Will is thematic. Skill list is pretty reasonable, might also want Knowledge(Local) and/or Knowledge (The Planes).

Point Blank Shot is on the table but not in the class description. It looks to be a bonus feat, throw in a line to that effect.

Disruptive Strike is bonus damage, which archery generally needs.

Evasion is, again, like a more specialized rogue.

Track makes sense. Trapfinding usually comes at the first level of a class, since some games start at level 1. This makes it easy to dip for trapfinding but rogue already lets you do that, so...

Does the Mage Slayer have to qualify for their bonus feats? I would assume so, but some bonus feats have wording that exempts them from pre-reqs. It doesn't hurt to specify here.

Dispelling Shot counterspell needs clarification. Does it automatically counter the spell if you hit the spellcaster? As it is currently written, I think the answer is yes.

Sniper... is the Dex to damage a precision bonus thing? Mirror image is an illusion that makes it harder to hit people, but it doesn't grant normal concealment. You might want a special line in there just for that spell.

Pincushion is weird to be an Ex effect, but such is D&D. You seem to be going for some MAD by adding a desire for Int, but this is pretty late in the class to start that. This also makes the Mage Slayer rather annoying against dragons, who have ~10 Dex and therefore could be dropped from the sky with a single arrow. Maybe this should only work against magical flight?

Guarded Mind and Body is very strong. Deathward is a 4th level spell that provides immunity to death effects for minutes/level. At 9th level you give part of the effect of the spell all day long. In addition, the character is now immune to an entire school of magic. Possibly too strong.

Greater Dispelling Shot is necessary at some point because Dispel Magic caps out at a +10 to dispel checks.

Improved Pincushion is situationally strong.

Stripping Arrow is dangerous.

Guarded Soul is SR.

Dispelling Strike Disjunction needs cleaning up. Is it single target like dispel magic or an area like Disjunction? Does it affect magic items like Disjunction or just active spells like Dispel Magic? I think the answers are 'single target' and 'effects only' but it's not entirely clear. Take out the reference to Disjunction and state that "for 4 uses of Dispelling Strike, a Mage Slayer may dispel all ongoing effects on a target without any dispel checks."

Mage Slayer is... it doesn't really slay a mage unless you have met said mage before.

The feats are mostly not really worth taking, with the possible exception of Superior Pincushion because it doubles all damage you do to targets in the air. Depending on the campaign that might be worth it. It's nice to have the options though.

As a set of abilities for killing spellcasters, this class is decent at shooting arrows at them and has a few useful defensive tricks. If enemy spellcasters are frequently in battles without pre-buffs this should do ok against them. It is very limited if it is not fighting spellcasters though... I would rather have a rogue than this class if we are raiding a bunch of orcs even if the orcs might have a shaman or two.

Techwarrior
2012-05-24, 11:11 PM
First off, thanks for the critique.

Alright did a major cleanup of the wording of the abilities so most of your questions about wording should be clarified. In addition I added some things to make Intelligence useful earlier in a Mage Slayers advancement.

In regards to your comments not regarding wording:

The class is definitely supposed to be similar to a rogue. Knowledge (the planes) makes some sense to me, enough that I'm willing to add it to the list. Knowledge (local) makes a bit less sense to me though, I see this as traveling too much hunting down magic users to really learn about a specific area.

I don't want the trapfinding ability to come at level 1 for a few reasons. First I really don't want this to be a dip class really and if it gave trapfinding in addition to it's other first level abilities I saw that as very dippable. Second, traps have to be above a 20 DC for them to need trapfinding, most of the traps that I've used as a DM and had to face as a player did not have a DC that high at level 1, or even level 3. Third, I think the Mage Slayer is too busy learning how to kill mages to get good at traps by level 1.

Sniper is not precision damage. Precision damage doesn't get added to all attacks, just the first one. That would make this a lot less nice. Mirror Image... not sure how I want to deal with that. I had originally envisioned the ability as similar to precise shot and improved precise shot, so I don't think there actually being more targets would qualify, but I'm already giving her the ability to see through similar illusions. I think I'll let them see through it.

I do want pincushion to be affecting nonmagical flight. The dragon thing did not cross my mind though, and I seriously doubt that an arrow would be able to drop a dragon from the sky, that would definitely strain my suspension of disbelief. I think I'll toss in a line that grants a bonus to the save if you're of a larger size.

The death effect thing, while I can understand the concern, is really needed. Save or die spells start coming at you around that level frequently, and without good fort saves, she doesn't stand a chance. I had originally thought of just making the Enchantment portion immunity to the charm and compulsion subschools. Would that be better, or should I give a bonus to saves against Enchantment, and if so, how much?

Dispelling Shot (Greater) is given at level 11, right when they exceed the cap. However, it costs more uses of Dispelling Shot, which depending on your DM and how many you actually have, could get problematic.

Improved Pincushion is supposed to be situationally strong.

What exactly do you mean by Stripping Arrow is dangerous? Do you think it is overpowered? For each use of Dispelling Shot I drain your highest level uncast spell and deal a very small amount of damage, which can be decreased further by a Fortitude save. Similar to what a negative level does, which can be done by a spellcaster casting Ennervate.

Mage Slayer does more than just give the arrow of death ability. It grants additional uses of Dispelling Shot and increases the cap of Stripping Arrow. It also gives her more DR bypass capabilities. The arrow of death thing is mostly just thematic, I fully expect that it will come up very infrequently. I see it as the epitome of an assassination though, so it had to be there.

Are the feats not granting enough for them to be being taken? I had originally given slightly bigger numbers for each feat but thought that they needed to be toned down after some playtesting.
For example, lets say we're facing a really powerful mage and we have Charged Dispelling, but only one time. The mage has the following buffs up. Mind Blank (lasts all day), Foresight, Blur, Mage Armor, Protection from Good, and Shield (all but Mind Blank cast when we tripped his Alarm spell).
I get a look at him, fire a Dispelling Strike (Superior) and use Charged Dispelling. He takes 22d4 damage just from Charged Dispelling. That's not counting my bow, my arrows, my Dex (from sniper), my Str (mighty composite bow), or Disruptive Strike damage. He has d4 Hit Dice too, so if he doesn't have a good Constitution modifier he's dead, one shot. Now he could theoretically make that reflex save and only take 11d4 damage, but that would still most likely take out half of his HP's.

I think that you're underestimating the classes capabilities. Against noncasters most of its abilities don't apply, but you could still use the Dispelling Shot stuff against targets that have been buffed up by someone else. Pincushion is useful against flyers, especially if they're using magical flight. You also get 7 archery feats, which is almost all of the core archery feats.

What would you suggest would make this more effective? I'm not sure that it's ineffective, but I also haven't playtested it extensively. What problems do you foresee it having?

Techwarrior
2012-06-09, 10:43 PM
Alright, I did a major revamp of the abilities of the class after some playtesting.

Features

The Mage Slayer now may choose any of the Mage Slayer feats, and fighter feats. She does not however, have an effective fighter level as of yet.

Most of the abilities were reworded to allow for melee and changed to be activated similarly to Smite.


Point Blank Shot was removed and replaced by a bonus feat.


Trapfinding was moved to 1st level, as suggested by Glimbur


Sniper now sees through invisibility.


Guarded Body and Mind now renders a Mage Slayer immune to charms and compulsions, not the whole Enchantment school.


Mystic Stealth has been added, this allows a Mage Slayer to sneak in through protection spells.


Stripping Strike now effects SLA's


Capstone has been reworked to allow for other weapons.


Feats

Added to Improved Disruptive Strike to make it more worthwhile as a feat.


Names for the Dispelling Strike feats have been changed to reflect what they do and Extra Dispelling Strike gives 3 extra uses instead of 2.


Reworded elemental damage feats to actually affect Stripping Arrow.


Any PEACH's on the new and (hopefully) improved version of this class would be appreciated.

Rainbownaga
2012-06-10, 01:06 AM
Dispelling strike has two contradictory numbers of use per day: 1/level at the beginning of the description and 1/level +int at the end.

Does the pincussion have to actually hit to force a saving throw? The description is unclear.


Since the class is focused on killing mages with arrows, is there any class ability that can punch through a wind wall? Is there any way to break into a wizard's rope-trick or other countless hidey hole?

Techwarrior
2012-06-10, 01:50 AM
Ok, edited the things you mentioned, and a couple of things I caught along the way.

Your mentioning of extradimensional space has sparked my interest. Ok, added the Breaking and Entering ability, now a Mage Slayer can find and open such spaces.

Wind Wall presents more of a problem however... Hm... reworked Sniper to make it bypass spell concealment and miss chance, not just from Illusions.

How's that look?

TuggyNE
2012-06-10, 02:19 AM
Trapfinding: Sometimes Mage Slayers have to break into a mageís sanctum after she has had time to prepare. Mages seem to be fond of placing traps in their lairs (especially those mages with oodles of time). A Mage Slayer can find traps with DCís higher than 20, as if they were a rogue.

I'd suggest delaying this another level, but giving them the ability to disarm any ongoing spell affecting an area from outside that area (such as alarm, which arguably rogues cannot disarm). Rationale is a bit further down.


Guarded Body and Mind (su): In order to better protect themselves from magic, Mage Slayers train both their bodies and mind to endure things that kill most others. A 9th level Mage Slayer is immune to death effects as well as all spells of the Charm and Compulsion subschools.

Immunity to an entire school, as noted, seems kind of annoying. Of course, it's not like Enchantment hasn't seen this kind of nasty tactic before....

Perhaps start with a significant bonus to each of these effects, then five or six levels later improve it to immunity.


Mystic Stealth (su): A Mage Slayer never triggers spells that ward an area from intrusion (such as Glyph of Warding), have negative effects for intruders (such as Hallow or Forbiddance) or warn of such intrusion (such as Alarm).

I don't like any absolute "haha no I auto-bypass that" abilities; see my notes under Trapfinding for my suggested fix for this.

(Your technique for making extradimensional spaces non-foolproof is a good example of how to make this work, alternately.)


Dispelling Shot (Greater): For 2 uses of Dispelling Shot you may make your shot similar to Greater Dispel Magic instead of Dispel Magic.

This, and various other occurrences of "Shot", should be updated to Strike as appropriate.


The target takes 2 points of damage for each spell level lost to this ability. The target is allowed a Fortitude save DC 10+1/2 Mage Slayer level+Int mod for half damage.

So in theory, a Focused Specialist Wizard 20 could lose up to 5 9th-level slots, for 90 damage. Hmm, not too shabby, I guess.


Guarded Soul (su): A 15th level Mage Slayer has become so effective at negating magic that it becomes difficult to affect a Mage Slayer with all magic. She has spell resistance 10+ her Mage Slayer level.

10+level is a little low; 12+level might be more reasonable.


In addition, a Mage Slayer may enchant a weapon with the power of death.
ē A Mage Slayer may only have one death enchantment at a time, and each such enchantment is attuned to a single target.
ē The target must be one that qualifies her Disruptive Strike ability. In addition, she must have come into contact with the subject (seeing the target is good enough, even if through magical means).
ē The weapon takes one day to enchant.
ē When the weapon hits the target that it is attuned to (a bow bestows the enchantment on its ammuntion), it is treated as a +5 weapon that bypasses all DR that the target has except DR/-, and is treated as having alignment based damage properties (anarchic, axiomatic, holy, unholy) according to the Mage Slayers alignment (in the above example her arrow would be axiomatic and unholy) in addition to any other properties. Assuming the target survives the arrow's damage, he must make an immediate Fortitude save DC 10+1/2 the Mage Slayerís class level+Int mod or die (this is a death effect). The first time the weapon hits its target this enchantment is removed.

This is probably more useful at blowing up recurring Outsider enemies than full-casters, tbh.

While it's logical for it to be a death effect, that makes it rather less efficient. If you can think of a creative way to make it not quite insta-kill, it might actually work better.



Improved Dispelling Shot
Prerequisites: Dispelling Strike
Benefit: Your effective caster level for your Dispelling Shot ability is increased by 2; in addition the caster level cap for Dispelling Shot and Dispelling Shot (Greater) is increased by 2
Special: This feat can be taken multiple times, the effect stacks.

I'd actually suggest raising the cap by only 1, but that may just be me.



Guarded Body and Mind now renders a Mage Slayer immune to charms and compulsions, not the whole Enchantment school.

There is no meaningful difference between "immunity to charms and compulsions" and "immunity to Enchantment", because all Enchantments are one or the other ó even odd ones like aid, greater heroism, calm emotions, the power word spells, feeblemind....

Techwarrior
2012-06-11, 12:47 PM
All cases of Shot where it should say Strike have been updated.

Breaking and Entering has been expanded upon to allow for the disabling of certain ongoing effects. I've also folded trapfinding into Breaking and Entering.

Guarded Body and Mind has been edited with your suggestions in mind. No eventual immunity will be added though I don't believe. I really thought that there was other spells in the school.. Guess that's what I get for looking through the 3.0 PHB when designing that.

I want to blame sleep deprivation for the auto-bypass of Mystic Stealth, but it was honestly me getting lazy and sloppy at the end of a long update. :smallsigh: I don't normally like that, has been updated with a similar mechanic to Breaking and Entering that also allows for bringing allies along.

Changed to 12+Mage Slayer level. If the Mage Slayer wants more SR than that, she can take the Incredibly Guarded Soul feat

Did a reworking of the capstone effect. No longer is death, just renders the mage completely useless spellwise. The damage that it does is merely insult on top of that injury.

LordErebus12
2012-06-11, 03:45 PM
i like this class, very unique and potent. wish i could port it to Pathfinder but i think its too powerful for that.

silphael
2012-06-11, 05:33 PM
That's the contrary, in fact: PF classes tend to be more powerfull than 3.5 ones.

legomaster00156
2012-06-11, 08:53 PM
Might I recommend a way to stop typical "escape buttons", such as Conjuration (teleportation) spells and some Transmutation spells (such as Gaseous Form)?

LordErebus12
2012-06-11, 09:20 PM
Might I recommend a way to stop typical "escape buttons", such as Conjuration (teleportation) spells and some Transmutation spells (such as Gaseous Form)?

I say an ability to choose to "hitchhike" on a teleportation effect that is cast within 30 ft. However, your actual destination will be 3d10x10 ft. (or the maximum available distance) away from the caster. This allows the slayer to reestablish stealth and find another moment to kill the caster, most likely by complete surprise; the mage thinking his spell had worked as planned.

Perhaps the additional effect will add a Follow Aura effect on the slayer, except the trail that is traceable is in a straight line, directly to the caster's current location. This lasts 10/mins per HD.

Techwarrior
2012-06-11, 09:50 PM
Gaseous Form at least, I don't see as a problem. Pop off a Dispelling Strike on him and you're good. Teleport effects would be a problem however, one that I hadn't thought of a good way to work around. I like the hitchhiking idea though. I think I'll be stealing that...

Dimension Door is the first one of those that I can think of, so we need something at or above 7th level. 7 is a possibilty, it's pretty light, but it comes right after Sniper, so not so sure about that. 8 and 9 give special abilities, so I don't want to place it there. Might just add it to Mystic Stealth actually, but that's not thematically the same thing at all.

WAIT! If the Mage Slayer jumps, he could only appropriately take himself. Eh, I guess I'll make it optional. Adding such an ability now.

Edit: Hitchhiker has now been added at 7th level, also added the Improved Hitchhiker feat to the list of Mage Slayer feats.

Techwarrior
2012-06-18, 05:28 PM
After some playtesting:


Guarded Mind portion of Guarded Body and Mind has been changed to Mind-Affecting spells as opposed to Charms and Compulsions. Several examples of such things came up, and it didn't really make sense from a thematic point of view.
Breaking and Entering has been modified to prevent someone from disabling a Firewall. (that caused me quite a headache)
Elemental damage feats have a cap now. A few more types of damage were also added.

Any thoughts on the new changes?

TuggyNE
2012-06-18, 09:56 PM
Guarded Mind portion of Guarded Body and Mind has been changed to Mind-Affecting spells as opposed to Charms and Compulsions. Several examples of such things came up, and it didn't really make sense from a thematic point of view.

OK, this makes sense, given the save bonus.


Breaking and Entering has been modified to prevent someone from disabling a Firewall.

There may be some gray areas I'm not considering, but this doesn't seem too bad.


Elemental damage feats have a cap now. A few more types of damage were also added.

One consideration: a Mage Slayer will receive 10 feats (5 bonus, 5 regular) after gaining Dispelling Strike; if all are spent on a given elemental dispelling, how much damage does it do per level? I'd suggest capping at d12/level, but you could also expand it to 2d8, 2d10, etc.

Techwarrior
2012-06-19, 01:59 AM
Not sure what you meant there. Did you mean being able to disable the Firewall was not a bad thing, or that changing it wasn't a bad thing. Consider that previously it also could be used to Disable a Summon Monster Spell or Major Creation, depending on how your DM looked at it. (Both of which were also tried, I did kind of ask for it though, when I told the player 'Try and break this so I know what to fix.') This saves headaches and arguments on what would qualify as I have clarified what exactly would be affected.

I don't personally like hard caps, but yes that is a wee bit ridiculous. Limit was put at 5 feats for 1d12 per spell level. If you can think of a way to soft cap it I'd love to hear it.

TuggyNE
2012-06-19, 06:10 AM
Not sure what you meant there. Did you mean being able to disable the Firewall was not a bad thing, or that changing it wasn't a bad thing. Consider that previously it also could be used to Disable a Summon Monster Spell or Major Creation, depending on how your DM looked at it. (Both of which were also tried, I did kind of ask for it though, when I told the player 'Try and break this so I know what to fix.') This saves headaches and arguments on what would qualify as I have clarified what exactly would be affected.

Sorry, I meant that the change wasn't too bad; disabling a wall of fire is a bit iffy, disabling a wall of stone is just stupid, and disabling animate objects would be facepalm-worthy. So it's fine now.

Techwarrior
2012-06-25, 03:47 PM
Reduced the number of Dispelling Strikes per day, as the total was in fact ridiculous. Also changed cost for Dispelling Strike (Superior) and Mage Slayer.

Techwarrior
2012-07-19, 03:18 AM
Capped Disruptive Strike at class level (serves to reduce low level dps skyrocketing)
Added Studied Stalker feat
Breaking and Entering now gives a Spot check before you enter an area you could disable (my spidey senses are tingling).

Zale
2012-07-19, 03:36 AM
Awesome class. I think it could actually stand a fair chance of doing in a wizard.

Still doesn't protect from Forcecage, though.

Techwarrior
2012-07-19, 12:05 PM
Hm, I was under the belief that Forcecage gave a reflex save to avoid... I'll think about that one, thank you for pointing it out. How would treating a Dispelling Strike (probably Greater) as if it affected spells like Disintegrate work?

Techwarrior
2012-07-26, 11:23 AM
Added Wind Step to avoid things like Forcecage.

ErrantX
2012-07-26, 12:10 PM
While the class is neat and all has some sound and reasonable mechanics in it to make it a fun and playable class, I have to step back and ask the resounding question of, "Why do you exist?"

There is a reason why base classes and prestige classes exist in the fashions they do. Not every abjurer is an Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil or an Incantatrix; only those few who specialize in their specific facets of that art. So when I see a class that is the logical product of a Suel arcanamach and a rogue begetting a child, I have to ask, "Why?"

Setting specifically, I can see that this could exist if the setting in question had a tyrannical wizard-run government that prompted a rebellion of sorts to train men and women to combat them, or wizards as outlaws and a group who wants them dead training them. In more generic settings like Faerun, Eberron, or Oerth, I'd say instead that this is... too specific. Do not confuse this as me saying your class is bad, I'm not saying that, I'm just saying its too specific.

You've invented a class that solely does one thing, and does that one thing very well: Kill Mages. Great! Good for you! But what else can you do? Its a bone of contention for the class Tiers, asking "What else can you do?" to classes like Fighter who can really only fight well, but it does hold some merit. Fighters can fight well, yes, but they can often specialize in a variety of fighting methods or with a group of weapons. They can be heartless warlords, brave adventurers, rakish fencers, petty thugs, or honorable cavaliers. Your Mage Slayer can only be what he is: a slayer of mages.

Base classes at their heart are supposed to be generalized and non-specific. Thus, they can fill many niches decently, and if the need to over specialize occurs, then that's where prestige classes fit in. This idea is too specific to be a base class in my mind. Apologies if this little rant of mine offends you, but as someone who has done a lot of homebrew, some of which has found its way here to this forum, I feel the need to share what wisdom I have.

Your mechanics are interesting and fun, albeit with too many "I can do this to to purely screw mages out of a chance of winning", and this class would likely be a blast to play if I was fighting mages a lot, so again don't take this the wrong way, I'm just saying just being a "mage slayer" is a little too specific for a base class.

2 bent coppers tossed into the pot,

-X