Undead Demon

[Almagesto]

Hi, guys!

It's been a while since I last posted, sorry for that. Anyway, I wanted to start with something that's been occupying my thoughts for the last few days: an undead demon. I've been trying to make a BBEG for my new campaign. I want it to resemble Orcus/Tenebrus in that it will be an outsider with undead cohorts. However, I want it to have both types. I know it's sort of impossible without bending the rules, so I just wanted to ask: What alternatives do I have? I've come up with some of my own:


Necropolitan Succubus
Dread Necromancer (with Tomb Tainted Soul) Succubus
Fiend-Blooded Lich
PC that inspired this BBEG (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202508)


I wanted a succubus kind of character, i.e. not really a tank, rather a scheming villain. My original PC wasn't really RAW, so I'm looking for alternatives. Otherwise, I'll go with what I have.

Thanks, any help is appreciated :)

[Manly Man]

For scheming, especially if it has to do with religion, lilitus are most definitely the way to go. They're treated naturally as ninth-level clerics, and so pinning another two levels of cleric on her wouldn't make her too much more powerful than a lilitu's base stats already make it. With that, you could give her the lichfiend template, which is, essentially, the lich template, but instead of the DR being 15/bludgeoning and magic, it's bludgeoning and good. To qualify, you'd need to have at least five spell-like abilities, of which the lilitu has more than twice that, and a level of casting classes equivalent to 11. She's not going very far when it comes to elevating her power too much for the party. Two class levels and then throw on a template, and you oughta be good to go with that.

[Almagesto]

Thank you, Manly Man. I can't believe I actually went through LM a couple of times and actually missed that template. Anyway, by doing this will the succubus lose its demon qualities, i.e. will they be replaced by undead ones? Are they substituted where better? Or does she get the undead qualities OVER its demon ones?

[Manly Man]

When the lilitu becomes a lichfiend, she only replaces what traits would clash. For example, instead of having an outsider's hit die, it would all become those of the undead. Any sort of overlap is to remain whichever is better; the tanar'ri subtype, as the demon is, has a resistance to fire, cold and acid for ten points of damage, has immunity to electricity and poison, and DR 10/cold iron or good. The lich grants immunity to electricity- something the lilitu already has- and cold. While the lilitu has a resistance to cold, the lich has immunity to it, so that would be replaced. The DR would both stack, so that if the weapon isn't cold iron or good, there's ten taken off of that, and if it's not a bludgeoning and good weapon, there's fifteen, and if the weapon fits none, it's a full twenty-five points taken off.

The lich template explains much well, and even says that, unless otherwise noted, the base creature retains all of their qualities, the better of the two being what's kept. It's pretty simple, really.

EDIT: Also, as a tip, it would be a good idea to get her Divine Metamagic with some metamagic feats. With a Charisma score like that, along with the litle extra you get for becoming a lich, she'd have magic tricks out the wazoo. It'd be best to build her from the ground up so that you can pick everything just as you'd like.

[GunbladeKnight]

In reply to Manly Man's post, I believe damage reduction overlaps, not combines. You only apply whichever is better in the instance. So in the case of your lilitu lichfiend, you would pretty much only care about the DR 15/bludgeoning AND good, since it has to be both bludgeoning and good to bypass it. Its secondary DR is 10/cold iron OR good, a lesser amount, and since the weapon has to be good to bypass the first one anyways, it easily bypasses the second.

[Manly Man]

In reply to Manly Man's post, I believe damage reduction overlaps, not combines. You only apply whichever is better in the instance. So in the case of your lilitu lichfiend, you would pretty much only care about the DR 15/bludgeoning AND good, since it has to be both bludgeoning and good to bypass it. Its secondary DR is 10/cold iron OR good, a lesser amount, and since the weapon has to be good to bypass the first one anyways, it easily bypasses the second.

You make a good point. It was mostly the cold iron thing that I'd been taking into concern, since you could have a holy bludgeoning weapon, though it might not be made of cold iron. The template says that you're supposed to keep everything that isn't explicitly replaced by the new traits, and that, I guess, is a bit sketchy about what is to be done on that. Thanks for the insight on that.

EDIT: And I think I kinda said what I was meaning backwards there. :smallannoyed:

[Almagesto]

Thank you, guys. I'm currently working on it. I'll post the finished stats once it's all done.

P.S. I'm sorry for the late response, but between my job and a LARP campaign, this is going quite slowly.