Good system for an X-COM RPG?

[Hylas]

More of me playing around, due to lack of player interest, but does anyone have a suggestion for a good set of rules to use with an X-COM RPG?

For those that don't know what X-COM is, it's an old DOS game where you run a secret organization to combat invading aliens. Eventually you can steal their technology and reverse-engineer it to upgrade your troops. Each player would run their own guy, or squad of guys if there's few players.

The system would need to be able to support a modern (specifically 1999 AD) setting but also futuristic tech to represent research and advancing technology. Being able to support psionic or similar powers is a plus.

I was thinking either GURPS or a heavily refluffed Warhammer 40k would be good, but I was wondering if anyone else had a suggestion.

[Ashtagon]

I suspect this is an area where d20 Modern could work. The more unbalanced parts of the system (spaceships, mecha) aren't relevant, and Wealth can quite easily be re-fluffed as "requisitioning power", so long as the infinite recursive Wealth tr8ick is banned.

[Sampi]

GURPS is heavy on preparation, but once you get it up and running, it will do great. I'd use it, mostly because I'm used to it.

Remember to make the aliens LETHAL.

[Cespenar]

I second d20 Modern. It even has Psionics for emulating Mind/Molecular Control.

[Badgerish]

So, you want to tell a X-COM story, but what type?
questions to ask:

How important do you want the horror aspect to be?
How important do you want the tactical combat to be?
How important do you want the investigation to be?
How important do you want the strategic choices to be? (base location/base build order/research choices/political choices)
Do you want to use troupe play? (e.g. each player has multiple characters, but only uses one at once. So you have a socialite, a soldier, a scientist and an aircrew)

my go-to options would be:

Spycraft 2.0 for a high-power action-movie game
Project:NEMESIS for a gritty modern-horror game

[valadil]

My only exposure to X-COM was a GURPS game. The system worked well enough from my point of view, but I can't really compare it to the original game.

[kyoryu]

X-COM is definitely one of the genres where I think GURPS would do very well.

[TrueMikeBrown]

I have used d20 modern for an X-Com 3 based game. It involved a fair amount of rule modification (mainly removing things that didn't make sense in the campaign and changing to a classless system), but the game was well received.

One nice thing about d20 modern is that the psionic effects are much weaker than d&d 3.5's magic system (and more similar to the effects in X-Com games)

I could probably post my modified SRD somewhere if you want (though it might not be exactly what you want)

[Hylas]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I'll definitely take GURPS under heavy consideration, and I'll check out Project:NEMESIS.

Classes in the d20 variety wouldn't really fit with X-COM's natural gradual progression, and too much houseruling will drive my player's crazy. But I am curious how you managed to change it to a classless system.

[Analytica]

What about Conspiracy-X?

[Diskhotep]

Savage Worlds works great for it. There's a long-running PbP game of it running at Something Awful right now.

[Knaight]

GURPS seems pretty solid. However, Nemesis (one of the ORE games) is free, and should also work well if the horror aspect is played up.

[holywhippet]

You could possibly refluff Dark Heresy to work. Both have advanced tech and both have psionics.

The main problem I see is that X-COM relied a fair bit on fog of war and obstructions to your aim. You might be able to get around that by using miniatures to some extent.

[TrueMikeBrown]

Classes in the d20 variety wouldn't really fit with X-COM's natural gradual progression, and too much houseruling will drive my player's crazy. But I am curious how you managed to change it to a classless system.

I agree that the classes in D20 modern do not fit with the X-Com world.

I based the classless system that I used on the Revised Ubergenerics Handbook (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-R0JrnRsrdwKaz0cBEeEiLwRbPCWLArwQGqT7XJ8td0/edit?pli=1). I fooled around with it for a while until it ended up how I wanted it (and the players helped to point out areas that I missed during gameplay, so I was able to keep updating it as we continued the campaign).

The real goal of the system (as I saw it) was to make it so that we could have guys playing as scientists, military type guys, psychics, or anything in between. In the end we had one sneaky military guy (who dabbled in psychics), a linguist, a prototyper (physicist) who was psychic, and a robot.

I looked heavily into GURPS as a system before I used D20m, and there was a lot of stuff that I liked about it - I just spent too long creating all of the alien races and coming up with all of the weapons and technology, so if you are faster than me, more willing to spend time, or more comfortable with the GURPS books it would probably be a good system to use.

[Hylas]

Good job on the d20 modern changes. It's all quite modular, which is fun.

Unfortunately interest in an X-COM RPG is even lower than it was before, so this will never see the light of day.

[Dire Panda]

Unfortunately interest in an X-COM RPG is even lower than it was before, so this will never see the light of day.

Is this PbP? Because I, for one, welcome the chance to relive the days of my miserable leadership failures that doomed the Earth favorite tactical simulator.

[Hylas]

I'm not an experienced DM and I'm actually currently looking to get my feet wet with PbP (it's really cutthroat for players out there, scrambling for available DMs), so me doing an X-COM game here wouldn't end well.

If I go crazy enough, I'll host one here and shoot you a PM since you already asked.

[Sampi]

Yeah, I'll also go for X-COM pbp. Gladly. Very gladly.

[Skaven]

Hmm, while d20 modern would work, it feels a bit too 'safe' for an X-Com game.

How about spacemaster? If you really like high risk systems it could work very well. Its very rules high and character creation heavy though.

[McNum]

Is D20 Modern compatible with the Vitality/Wound point system? Considering that there are actual plasma weapons in the future rules, and just how much damage they do, a critical hit will pretty much just oneshot you with that system.

Yeah, you're still more durable than the average X-Com greyshirt grunt, but I've seen those take a plasma blast to the face and walk away unharmed, occasionally. Plus, you know, some of the aliens are going to be lethal in other ways. I kind of want to see a D20 Chryssalid... They're fairly simple critters, but statting them up would not be too easy, I think. And if you're doing X-Com, you really want these things in, they're a classic.

[Hylas]

I kind of want to see a D20 Chryssalid... They're fairly simple critters, but statting them up would not be too easy, I think. And if you're doing X-Com, you really want these things in, they're a classic.

The best part about being the DM would be controlling the chryssalids.

[RagingKrikkit]

This thought has occured to me as well, but I came to the conclusion that a true X-Com experience would require its own game engine, based on the mechanics of the original X-Com.

[Ashtagon]

Just occurred to me that d20 Traveller might be a good fit.

[Clawhound]

If I had to start with anything, I'd start with Chill. There's nothing quite like being in a firefight when someone announces, "I'm out of Luck."

There's something about the way Chill is constructed that lets you get away with dangerous things, but then the floor falls out from under your and there's nothing between you and a quick death. THAT, my friend, is what X-Com is all about. You don't want the mechanics, you want the TENSION.

You can hack the magic system into psionics very easily.

At its heart, X-Com is as much a horror game as a combat game, so if Chill doesn't do you, look at some of the other horror systems.

[Partysan]

Well, if it's tension with a side taste of survival horror you want, Dread is an excellent system to use. It would only work for the soldiers vs. aliens part though, it's not suited at all for the base or research strategy parts.

[Clawhound]

I don't know of anything that really works for the research, base parts, economics, or aerial combat, especially given the time scale of the original X-Coms. Tech advancement was slow. Base building was slow.

As a DM, I would relegate those aspects to plot.

An interesting tension increaser could be secondary objectives. "Get video footage of an alien shooting their weapons. Get audio recording of their communications." That sort of thing. Now somebody has to be a cameraman. You could then tie those things to research, giving breakthroughs depending on what alien actions you obtained information on. So the players get tech advancements by pushing into uncomfortable territory.

Then again, in the original, you had to actually capture live aliens. Yeah. That does the same thing for tension.

[Partysan]

Somehow this thread makes me want to develop an X-COM RPG. However I never played the really old stuff, in fact a significant part of my experience comes from remakes. But I guess if I can think of anything I'll post it in Homebrew and have people help who did play the old originals.

[kyoryu]

However I never played the really old stuff, in fact a significant part of my experience comes from remakes.

$5 on Steam. Fix this.

[Partysan]

Ok, you tell me the exact title and I'll go fix it right now. Deal?

[McNum]

Ok, you tell me the exact title and I'll go fix it right now. Deal?
"X-Com: UFO Defense" (http://store.steampowered.com/app/7760/)

It might also be called "UFO: Enemy Unknown" depending on region.

There's a PDF manual with the game, I really suggest you at least read the interface part of it, though. The gameplay has aged fantastically. The UI? Not so much.


The best part about being the DM would be controlling the chryssalids.

Yes. Very much so. "It grapples. Roll a new character." You might want to nerf them ever so slightly, because their "Tag! You're DEAD!" attack in the game can be pretty brutal.

[kyoryu]

Yes. Very much so. "It grapples. Roll a new character." You might want to nerf them ever so slightly, because their "Tag! You're DEAD!" attack in the game can be pretty brutal.

If I was making an X-COM RPG, one of the assumptions would have to be that players can easily jump characters, or control someone that sits back in safety, directing the troop motions from afar.

Without brutal lethality, it ain't X-COM.

[McNum]

If I was making an X-COM RPG, one of the assumptions would have to be that players can easily jump characters, or control someone that sits back in safety, directing the troop motions from afar.

Without brutal lethality, it ain't X-COM.
I find the tone of X-Com more cynical than brutal, really. It pulls no punches, but it doesn't go out of its way to kill you, either. Well, not all of the time. It kind of is like a DM, really. "There are aliens, what do you do?" And then the aliens respond to what you do while going on with their own plans. Really, if you pull off X-Com right, you'll get the feeling of constantly losing the war, while winning battles, until you finally hit the point where you can win the war.

But yeah, if the players get to jump soldiers easily if one dies, the chryssalid gets a melee touch attack. And an 80" move range. And the Run feat. These things need to come out of nowhere and just kill someone. You should probably show mercy and demonstrate on a civilian first. Oh, wait... That's not mercy. What's the opposite of mercy? :smallbiggrin:

[kyoryu]

Really, if you pull off X-Com right, you'll get the feeling of constantly losing the war, while winning battles, until you finally hit the point where you can win the war.

Yeah. That's part of the experience. The final mission shouldn't be "look how awesome we are, now we come kick your butt!" It's "we're losing, and this is our one chance to turn this around. If we don't go, we die. If we do go, we probably die..."

That said, the game is pretty consistently lethal. At any point, a poor decision or just dumb luck can kill one of your soldiers. Without that, IMHO, it ain't X-COM.

[Clawhound]

I remember playing X-Com the first time. I got my kiester kicked. I happened to be watching war documentaries at the time, so I started using WW2 tactics, and that turned my game around.

So yeah, I have a VERY high opinion of X-Com. It deserves to be called one of the greatest games EVAR.

I agree about the lethality requirements.

The system must also reward playing/fighting smart. If it exists, you should be able to use it.

[Hylas]

Whoa, lots of activity here. You guys gotta be less interested before someone has to make an actual game!

In regards to base building, research, economy, etc: I've been thinking about this and in the big differences between a computer version and an RPG version of X-COM is that a computer can accurately run the world economy, individual countries with how they like you, UFO activity, research rates, and engineering very easily and with a complex set of rules. On the other hand, combat is restrictive because you are limited to a set of rules that you can't violate and any options that aren't programmed in are unavailable.

An RPG can do things differently. Either you can do a heavily abstracted version of wealth, such as what Rogue Trader does, or d20 modern (I think, I haven't actually had a DM use wealth rules so I never bothered to learn them, especially since I've only done one-shots with d20 modern). Or you can attempt to actually crunch the numbers using excel. I'd go for the abstraction. Also a lot of simplification would make the game run smoother, because unless you have players who are more interested in the economic aspects of X-COM it's unnecessary. I'd keep research as "you always have X number of scientists per lab who can research one thing at a time per lab." Then the DM can figure out how long it'll take to research anything in days rather than "man-hours." Same for engineering and whatnot. Players can decide if they want a second research lab or a second workshop, or more storage, which is a much more interesting choice for them to make.

Combat is where an RPG can shine. You can have guys crawl through ventilation shafts, or steal cars and ram them into a reaper, or blow up an entire building that has snakemen eggs in it. You can also have more combat situations than the three UFO crash/landing, terror, and base that the PC game offers. Some ideas I've had are:

During a landing, a group of angry farmers (who don't trust the gov'ment) have taken up arms to defend themselves, but you must avoid civilian dealths
Aliens are planning to overthrow a nation and plant a puppet to control it. You must stop them while keeping X-COM secret from the public.
Aliens have captured Senator Darcy. You need to use your craft to do a mid-air boarding of the ship before they steal secrets from his brain.
Mind-controlled cities.


And for base-building you can rooms get upgraded, such as a short-range radar turning into a long-range radar turning into a hyper-wave decoder, rather than having to build one and demolish the other. Trying to copy the game exactly wouldn't be playing to the strengths and weaknesses of each system.


Yeah. That's part of the experience. The final mission shouldn't be "look how awesome we are, now we come kick your butt!" It's "we're losing, and this is our one chance to turn this around. If we don't go, we die. If we do go, we probably die..."

That said, the game is pretty consistently lethal. At any point, a poor decision or just dumb luck can kill one of your soldiers. Without that, IMHO, it ain't X-COM.

I always thought of the last mission as a one-way trip, and that you lacked the resources to do another attempt as you're sending all of your best equipment out into space, and it'll be years before Mars is this close again to Earth. Also the Aliens are getting more production faster than you are, have limitless soldiers, and a much larger supply of elerium (http://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Elirium).

[Dire Panda]

I suspect an X-COM RPG would be strongly reminiscent of first-edition D&D: losing characters is expected, but rolling a new one is quick and painless. With that in mind, I'd avoid using GURPS or anything that takes more than ten minutes for an experienced player to make a character.

"Jumping" between characters is a good idea. Maybe each player directly controls a single officer in the X-COM organization (who would get a much more detailed stat block) with a small number of soldiers (3-5?) directly reporting to her. You'd be able to deploy some or all of them for each mission, control them while on the battlefield, and when they inevitably kick the bucket you'd replace them between missions (at some resource cost, of course). While not on a mission, you'd roleplay the officer. Keeping track of five different character sheets might be a little overwhelming if the system isn't properly streamlined, but I think it could be made to work.

Edit: Ninja'd! Those are all great ideas, Hylas.

[Hylas]

I was thinking squads would be a good idea. A player might control two or three guys, or a single HWP, which all have the same stat block. If one dies then you can replace them, but if two die then you'll lose some skill or experience or simply don't get as much when the DM hands it out, but if all three die then it's new character time.

For GURPS I would make kits that are probably at least 50 points so you can pick something like "ex-marine" or "tech specialist" or "leader" and get a bunch of skills relevant to what you want your concept to be like. There would also be a starting kit that everyone would have which would include skills like pistol, rifle, athletics, etiquette (military), and anything else you would pick up in basic training. Those alone will make character creation much faster.

Though I have to agree that a system like D&D 1e would make for much faster character generation. If Warhammer 40k didn't need refluff there's plenty of character generators out there that roll every stat and pick a class for you.

[McNum]

Yeah, if a tabletop X-Com keeps its lethality, then it needs a very fast character generation system. I kind of like the idea that the PCs are the commanders, though, and they each get a squad when doing missions. This also has an amusing side effect: Base invasions get a lot more dangerous. Why? Because that's where the actual PCs are! Getting a squaddie mauled by a 'lid? It happens. Seeing one come charging down the hallway at you? That's something else. And since the players at that point more or less know what's up, it makes a surprise base attack much more tense. You know what the aliens are capable of, and now... they're coming for YOU.

One simple idea for character generation would be to use some common archetypes, then let each player flavor the characters a bit. You know, the quick "Who's this guy?" questions of likes, dislikes, and a one paragraph background. You may want to keep a list of common names handy. Or use some web-based name generator. Encourage the players to come up with nicknames for each soldier, too. The new game is going to do that and it's a great idea. The Team Fortress classes would not be a bad place to start. Everyone knows what you're talking about when you suggest a Heavy Weapons Guy. Plus, if you get them to think in TF2, you get the multinational team of elite soldiers concept through for free. The Pyro... might have to sit this out, unless the players come up with a good use of one.

As for research, I'd be tempted to leave that to the players. Have the science team make suggestions, sure, but if the players want a shoulder mounted laser cannon for the Power Suit, then why not? The basic story of X-Com is to use science to beat back the vanguard of an alien invasion, after all. It doesn't have to follow the video game's progress. Do encourage Med-Kits, though.

It might be fun to try and actually stat up some of the aliens for d20, but I've never made a monster from scratch before. Seems hard.

[Dire Panda]

Love the character archetype idea, McNum. Having a collection of pre-made first-level character sheets that the players can refluff as needed will really streamline soldier replacement. One other thing to consider is a cap on advancement - if we're using some variant of d20, E6 is all but necessary to avoid ruining the horror vibe. A bunch of 20th-level soldiers running around punching aliens in the face wouldn't exactly be vintage X-COM, and losing a 6th-level character still hurts plenty.

(Hmm, I hadn't considered the base invasion angle. I like it. Might give PCs an incentive to invest in those expensive base defense modules)

Because I have nothing better to do with my life, here's a d20 Chryssalid stat block:

Chryssalid
Medium aberration
HD: 6d8+12 (39hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 30ft (60ft when under the effects of Hypermetabolism)
AC: 20 (+4 DEX, +6 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 16
BAB/Grapple: +4/+15
Attacks: Two pincers +11 melee (1d8+7 slashing plus improved grab, 19-20/x2)
Space/Reach: 5/5
Special attacks: Improved grab, implant
Special qualities: Darkvision 60ft, explosive vulnerability, hypermetabolism
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +6, Will +5
Abilities: STR 24, DEX 18, CON 14, INT 2, WIS 10, CHA 10
Skills: Jump +7 (+19 during hypermetabolism), Climb +15
Feats: N/A
Environment: Any urban
Organization: Solitary, pair, swarm (3-6), or exponentially growing apocalypse (10+)
Challenge Rating: Is a fundamentally broken system.
Terror Rating: Trousers-fouling
Treasure: Corpse only
Alignment: Always chaotic evil

Chryssalids are living weapons of alien terror, dropped into populated areas to zombify residents and spawn a new generation of insectoid horrors.

Combat
Chryssalids aren't intelligent enough to use tactics in combat; they simply bum-rush any living humans in the vicinity and attempt to implant them with larvae. They do seem to have enough sense to avoid attacking other aliens, however.
Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a chryssalid must hit a creature of Medium or smaller size with its pincer attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it it establishes a hold and can attempt to implant the opponent in the following round.
Implant (Ex): A chrysallid stores dozens of larvae within its body and can implant them in a grappled victim as a standard action requiring a successful grapple check. Once implanted, the larva rapidly devours the host and secretes potent chemicals that seize control of its nervous system, effectively turning it into a zombie (INT drained to 1, permanent insanity). Chryssalid zombies are considered aberrations, not undead, and are not limited to single actions. Each round, the larva deals 1d4 CON damage as it devours the host's flesh and organs; when the host reaches 0 CON, it dies and a new chryssalid bursts forth from the remains. Killing the zombie before this time releases an immature chryssalid with only one HD per round it has gestated. If the zombie is reduced to -10hp or below by fire or acid damage, the larval chryssalid also dies. An implanted victim can make a DC 20 Fortitude save to avoid zombification, but the CON damage is unavoidable and the save must be repeated each round. Removing an implanted larva is only possible on the first round after implantation and requires a full-round action and a DC 20 Heal check. Regardless of the check's success or failure, this deals 2d6 damage to the victim. Victims who have failed their zombification save are irrevocably brain-damaged and usually not worth saving (effects which cure insanity and ability drain would save them - and a heal spell can remove a larva at any stage of development - but you're not seriously dropping a chryssalid into D&D, are you?).
Explosive Vulnerability (Ex): If a chryssalid fails its Reflex save against an explosive weapon, it takes one-and-a-half times the usual damage.
Hypermetabolism (Ex): As a swift action once per day, an adult chryssalid can active the remaining larval cells in its body, granting itself the same rapid metabolism that allowed its larval form to grow so rapidly. During hypermetabolism, the chryssalid's speed increases to 60ft and it gains fast healing 1. This state lasts three rounds plus the chryssalid's CON mod (5 rounds total for a standard creature), and afterwards the chryssalid is considered fatigued for one hour.
Racial Bonuses (Ex): Chryssalids gain a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks. They also gain a +4 bonus on all grapples.

[Hylas]

Fun facts about the chryssalids! (http://ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Chryssalid)
I think a good idea would be to add the explosive vulnerability which is mentioned in the flavor text and to be able to kill zombies with fire before they hatch. And chryssalids can run out of energy from running too much, so something that causes fatigue or exhaustion would be fitting.

Also good idea for using E6. Definitely fits in this situation.

[Dire Panda]

Good suggestions, I've updated the chryssie stat block with some appropriately flavorful abilities. And is that an X-COM wiki? I think you may have just rolled a critical hit against my productivity...

(Honestly, if you're not going to run this game, I just might have to. This discussion is making me more nostalgic than I have a right to be)

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

A more adventurer-themed X-Com could work too. If you have, say, 5 players, each player should control no more than 2 people on the table, because if they control more than that then they'll be less creative with their actions: less "crawl-through-the-ducts" and more "I take cover again with this guy, and then the 4th guy shoots that alien", which I think would get repetitive.

[Tetsubo 57]

I would suggest asking The Gentleman Gamer over on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/user/clackclickbang

He has run X-COM games at conventions. He is also a dreadfully entertaining fellow.

[McNum]

Chryssalid
I love it.

A slight nerf in that it needs a grapple, but it's consistent with Mind Flayers with its instant kill attack. If a character makes its save vs. zombification, and keeps making it, will the fully grown Chryssalid emerge from the still living and conscious body? That'd be a particularly horrible way to go. Good work! The more body horror these things can inflict, the better.

I'd also consider making it very clear what braindead means in this way. Yes, in most cases it probably won't matter, but since it's a d20 monster, it could technically also be used against a D&D party, and then you have to consider magic like Restoration and Regeneration. Could those fix a still alive, but braindead human that had the larva removed? There's probably a standard status effect that could be used, maybe severe drain on one of the mental stats or even the loss of one like undead having no Con score. The implication right now is that if you manage to extract the larva, but the victim fails the save, the optimal way of getting that character back in play is to kill it and cast Raise Dead. Again, if it's used in a D&D like setting.

Still, it gets the job done, and while its HP isn't stellar, its mobility is nice. Also good job on getting the other Achilles heel of the Chryssalid into it. They're fast, but they can't run full tilt forever as they will run out of Energy in the game. Giving them a speed boost that leaves them fatigued is a good transfer of that strength/weakness.

Also this:

Organization: Solitary, pair, swarm (3-6), or exponentially growing apocalypse (10+)
So true. A few 'lids is not that big a problem, all things considered. But a dozen at the same time? That's a big problem.

[Hylas]

And is that an X-COM wiki? I think you may have just rolled a critical hit against my productivity...

(Honestly, if you're not going to run this game, I just might have to. This discussion is making me more nostalgic than I have a right to be)

Yeah, it's an X-COM wiki. I used to have an X-COM strategy guide which probably had more content than the wiki, but it has sadly disappeared into the unknown.

You're welcome to run a game if you want. My DM skills aren't too hot and I'm much better at making game mechanics than anything else. Actually, you could probably just pick people here to recruit without the need for a thread.

[Dire Panda]

Hmm, 'lids in D&D? I guess their zombification ability could be treated as a combination of INT drain and insanity. Heal should probably also be able to terminate a larva, no matter what round of gestation it's on. Stat block updated again!

I'd be more than willing to run an X-COM campaign on these boards, but this week is crunch time for my current project. Earliest I could start would be around the 6th. (Unless anyone objects too strongly, we'd probably be using d20)

[RagingKrikkit]

Well, all I can say is DO IT DO IT DO IT!

Edit: And that I'd like to copypasta that 'lid to another site.

[Dire Panda]

Just as a quick headcount, how many posters in this topic would play the hypothetical PbP d20 X-COM? It's probably not worth running unless I can get at least four.

[McNum]

I've never played a PbP game before, so i don't actually know how to do that.

But it sounds interesting, how big a time commitment is it to play in a PbP game?

[Dire Panda]

It really depends on the game, but spending fifteen minutes on a daily post isn't too bad of a ballpark figure.

[RagingKrikkit]

Basically you post when you can. I'm in.

[McNum]

Well, as long as I can ask basic questions while we're playing, I'd like to join, too. I know my X-Com and played (and DM'd) D&D3.5, so I should pick up whatever d20 variant we use pretty quick. A bit rusty on the rules now...

[RagingKrikkit]

Well, as long as I can ask basic questions while we're playing, I'd like to join, too. I know my X-Com and played (and DM'd) D&D3.5, so I should pick up whatever d20 variant we use pretty quick. A bit rusty on the rules now...

http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/modern/smack/srdhome.html

[Surrealistik]

Slightly modded Dark Heresy/Rogue Trader

Brutally lethal combat, with the sci-fi stuff already integrated.

Perfect.

[Hylas]

I'd give it a whirl.

[Rogerd]

What about Conspiracy-X?

Seconded and I think Unisystem is the simplest and easiest to use, or, and I'm just putting the idea out there, Basic Roleplaying System it has stats for a dinstegrator and various sci-fi widgets already.

[Dire Panda]

Eh, starting with three players is doable. Maybe we'll pick up more in a recruitment thread. I'll start working on a conversion of d20 Modern/Future to X-COM this weekend.

[RagingKrikkit]

Sweets!:smallbiggrin:

[Rogerd]

Eh, starting with three players is doable. Maybe we'll pick up more in a recruitment thread. I'll start working on a conversion of d20 Modern/Future to X-COM this weekend.

Well if it helps I looked at converting some D100 (RQ / BRP) over to Eden and I came to the conclusion stats are divided by 3, so an 18 would be 6, max for a human. Then LP and other stats you work out as normal, and any qualities just transfer the principle across and work out bonuses.

[Autolykos]

GURPS is the obvious solution here, but might not be deadly enough. I'm currently running a X-COM inspired game in it though, and it works fine so far (we're more on the cinematic side, with MIB as another source of inspiration).

I gave each player two characters, 200 points each, 4e rules: One in the "away team" and one in base for support, intelligence, research and/or building equipment. This feels about right for "the best of the best". In the original X-COM games, your organization seems slightly understaffed and -funded, so 150 points might be closer.

Shadowrun would also be a nice alternative; the tech level is almost spot on (you might want to tone down the implants a little and/or require research for the more advanced stuff) and you'll find enough critters that could pass for aliens. Refluffed insect spirits in flesh form (or possibly true form, as long as they have to stay materialized) would also be a good option.

[kyoryu]

GURPS is the obvious solution here, but might not be deadly enough.

High tech weapons, especially if weapon tech outpaces armor tech, can certainly be deadly. Headshots especially so.

[Partysan]

High tech weapons, especially if weapon tech outpaces armor tech, can certainly be deadly. Headshots especially so.
Right, back in third edition a plasma gun would do something like 16d6 dama e with a normal human having 10HP. So even an exceptionally tough human would have been instakilled by minimum damage, not counting armor.

[Rogerd]

I'd still go for Unisystem I think. But that's just me :)

There is nothing saying you cannot use D100 either though.

[JohnnyCancer]

Any system with injury/mortal wounds charts like Boot Hill, properly re-flavored. X-COM soldiers tend to die or get put out of action a lot.

[Autolykos]

with a normal human having 10HP.Technically true, but player characters expecting to take damage should be at around 15HP, and can go five times their HP in the negatives without being instantly dead. This makes hits up to 90HP survivable (as long as a good medic is nearby).
Also, plasma weapons are on the *very* high end of the damage scale. Most rifle-sized ultra-tech weapons are more around 6d6 (with good armor divisors).

[rorikdude12]

I would truly enjoy playing d20 modern X-COM. Please PM me when you start a thread, as I'm generally nit in these boards and only in the PbP boards.

[kyoryu]

Technically true, but player characters expecting to take damage should be at around 15HP, and can go five times their HP in the negatives without being instantly dead. This makes hits up to 90HP survivable (as long as a good medic is nearby).
Also, plasma weapons are on the *very* high end of the damage scale. Most rifle-sized ultra-tech weapons are more around 6d6 (with good armor divisors).

15 HP? That's quite a bit.

But even then, you can get knocked out as low as zero HP, and can be effectively knocked out earlier than that due to limb damage. It's true that GURPS is, barring headshots, a game more likely to knock you out and let you bleed to death than killing you outright, but I don't consider that to be too horrible.

Also yes, it's true that you can survive up to -5*hp, but that's an extreme edge case and is unlikely in actual play.

[McNum]

I would truly enjoy playing d20 modern X-COM. Please PM me when you start a thread, as I'm generally nit in these boards and only in the PbP boards.
Yeah, I've already said I want to try this, but shoot me a PM when the thread goes up, too.

Also, for the HP discussion, a maxed out X-Com soldier in the game has 60 HP (or 61 due to overflow) and a recruit starts with 25-40 HP. They die instantly at 0 HP. To compare lethality, the alien weapons do 0-120 (Plasma Pistol), 0-160 (Plasma Rifle), and 0-230 (Heavy Plasma). But on the flipside, armor is a direct damage resistance, so if you have 100 armor points, a Plasma Pistol will never kill even a recruit in one shot. Which is why it has an Auto-Shot...

Anyway, if the PnP game has the same lethality, you basically need weapons that can and will take down an unarmored soldier. But also some way to mitigate it, as lategame X-Com troops with Flying Suits actually have a decent, but not guaranteed chance of taking a Heavy Plasma shot and living. Of course, it's possible for the aliens to roll all 0s. I've seen an unarmored soldier take three Heavy Plasma shots in one round and only lose 20 HP in one of my games... That's spectacular odds on his side. Then he got shot in the back by an ally. He actually lived through that, too. Was out of action for two months, though. Classic X-Com moment there.

[RagingKrikkit]

Might as well say count me in on the PM list.

[Dire Panda]

So I'm almost ready to start the game, but I'd like feedback on a few ideas before we begin.


Characters: I think the game would run at a decent speed if each of you controlled two soldiers or HWP's in addition to your main character back at base. Maybe there will be a feat that lets you control a third. Given X-COM's trademark lethality rate, it shouldn't be unbalanced for surviving soldiers to level up after every mission. Since your main character is experienced enough to be hired as a leader, I'm thinking they'll start at level six. One other thing to consider is that not every main character needs to come from a solely military background; maybe one or two of you could have scientific expertise that gives bonuses to the research teams.
Research: Borrowing some ideas from the sequels, I'd really like to have a tech tree (hopefully less confusing/buggy than TFTD) - since it stands to reason that you can only understand alien tech once you have a solid understanding of elerium physics. Separating research teams into physics/engineering and biology/chemistry like Apocalypse did also makes sense. I'll also allow you to research things that weren't in the original games but that a realistic X-COM might want to have (anti-Chryssalid-larva toxin, aerial scouting equipment, etc.)
Captured aliens: One of the XcomUtil mod's most interesting ideas was that capturing live aliens should speed up research on most technologies. Why let your scientists beat their heads against the walls trying to figure out elerium physics when Sectoids are vat-cloned with that knowledge already in their brains? I'm not married to this idea, but it could add some drama to missions if capturing aliens becomes much more important.
Psionics: This obviously can't be done in the usual class-based manner, so I'm thinking that each week in the psi-lab grants a soldier one power point and each month one manifester level (minimum 1). There would be a cap on power points, of course (highest of your INT, WIS, or CHA scores?), and you'd still need a psi-amp to do anything. Powers would be restricted to telepathy and (maybe) some clarisentience, with a homebrewed "Dominate Alien for one round" thrown in.
Bases: for ease of bookkeeping, I really like the system the remake is using. X-COM will have one central base where all the research/manufacturing is done and the PCs live, and will cover the world with small radar/interception bases.


Let me know what you think!

[Kholai]

How would the Mission Control character level up? I presume not in the same "level a mission" format?

"Two HWPs" sounds a bit like overkill, given space considerations. Perhaps HWPs should count as two characters (plus one with a feat?)? They're at least twice as durable.

Captured Aliens assisting sounds neat - it would also lead to, one assumes, interaction with them, which adds opportunities for roleplaying (and additional dangers during a base defence, where the POWs revolt and start aiding the attackers).


I think: I've honestly never played D20 Modern before, I've never done a PbP before, but if that's no problem with you this is awesome enough that I'd learn. =D

[Hylas]

I think each person can control a single character. Character creation is fast if you don't have to worry about writing a huge background story (which we won't as past jobs will do most of the work for us). If someone wants to use a HWP then they can play a character that is a pilot with the drive skill and they can retain the option of getting out if they need to or the HWP is wrecked. Perhaps leveling up can make them more resilient in HWPs?

I know the game had you controlling a dozen characters, but it can work as a smaller team, you just need a slightly different scope. The newest XCOM game has you playing with a strike team of 4-5 guys and games like Final Fantasy Tactics has a maximum of 6 people to control. The Aliens movies has a small number of people too. I regularly did raids on the Cult of Sirius in Apocalypse with 5 man teams. What works in video games doesn't always translate directly into a tabletop RPG.

For research I'd simplify it a lot. Don't have us managing 50 scientists, have us manage a lab, or labs, with an unspecified number of scientists and researching takes X number of days with modifiers depending on specializations and prior research. You can keep the old research tree but if you feel like doing some work you can give us a "choice" type system. Like if we get alien alloys we can focus early research on either personal armor, improved HWPs, or improved aircraft, with sequential research taking less time. An intact UFO might help a lot more with new fighters but not so much with flying suits while a live floater could help push flying suits along.

Oh man, we can get modular HWPs. Maybe we get alloys to improve armor, then hovering parts, then better weapons. How exciting!

I like the idea of live aliens helping out more, especially since they're difficult to get in the first place.

If we're doing E6 then psionics can be something we improve instead of new feats. If we're not doing E6 then just have it be multiclassing.

[McNum]

Something I've been thinking would be to have a soldier character and a utility character, so to speak. The soldier is, well, the soldier guy we send into the fray against the aliens. Not that we can't choose to send out the other guys, of course, but it might not be wise. How many soldiers we control would probably be something we need to try out, really. Two could work, but maybe just one.

The utility guy, though, is a scientist, an engineer, a pilot, a remote HWP driver (those things are remote controlled, you know), a communications officer, or even a diplomatic liaison that keeps the funding nations happy. Basically, we get to make a "non-combat guy that X-Com would need". The more of X-Com we get to play, the better, I'd think.

The alternative to a utility guys is simply to make non-combat X-Com a bit more abstract, with decisions made half-OOC. I say half, because we'd pretty much be playing X-Com itself collectively as a "character" of sorts.

But concerning research, since that's a big part of the game, it should probably be decided OOC anyway, then RP'd as our guys, be it combat or utility, pleading their case for a new technology. Like the soldier complaining that his battle rifle doesn't kill Floaters reliably, and he'd really wish X-Com had better weapons, spurring the development of Laser Rifles, or an engineer claiming he figured out a way to make our own UFO-like craft, resulting in the Lightning. You know, you set up some choices, we pick one ad RP it out. But, I would like if we could freestyle a little in research. Sure, the original X-Com tech tree had the essentials, but it was also very rigid. It might be fun to deviate a little, if we get a good idea. Your anti Chryssalid larva one is good, for instance. Would require we have the necessary basic tech and knowledge to plead our case, of course. You wouldn't get that one without at least a dead 'lid, possibly a live one.

Concerning captured aliens, I would like if they were a boost to new research, but perhaps lose a little of the weird logic behind what to capture and when. I'm specifically speaking about the need to capture a Navigator to unlock the Hyper-Wave Decoder. You have 4 intact UFOs, and Navigation figured out. But you need a live Navigator to point it out? Seems a bit weird. Of course, capturing Leaders and Commanders for the endgame should stay. the desperate charge of a Battleship or enemy base to capture a Commander is part of the fun.

As for the base, I'd be fine with a central base like the remake. We need to figure out if we want the base to get aided by aliens, of course, since that system apparently goes away with the ant-farm base in the new game. We might need a way to expand air coverage and radar/hyperwave, though.

I should probably add that I haven't done a PbP game before, so I'd like it if we took it a little slow-ish. Not that it's in X-Com's spirit to go easy on the new guy, mind you. I'm thinking more the how to play part, like how to play d20 without a grid of sorts. But I suppose that's what the companion OOC thread is for, to ask these questions.

[Hylas]

I'm not sure how role play of the "at base" character would work out. Personally I can't think of anything fun but if other people can then great! I'd be boring and just have base decisions made by PC committee.

[Kholai]

I'm not sure how role play of the "at base" character would work out. Personally I can't think of anything fun but if other people can then great! I'd be boring and just have base decisions made by PC committee.

Thinking of this, what do/could the controller characters actually do? Would Rally/Inspire/Psionics work "over the link" so to speak?

[McNum]

I'm not sure how role play of the "at base" character would work out. Personally I can't think of anything fun but if other people can then great! I'd be boring and just have base decisions made by PC committee.
Yeah, the base characters would not get as much facetime as the soldiers. I was partly inspired by a snippet from the new game where a scientist and a soldier discuss the need for live aliens, which goes... okay, until the scientist recommends the use of Stun Rods. That makes the soldier protest loudly. Going face to face with the aliens is a bad plan, new game or old. But you need to do it to win...

[RagingKrikkit]

I was partly inspired by a snippet from the new game where a scientist and a soldier discuss the need for live aliens, which goes... okay, until the scientist recommends the use of Stun Rods. That makes the soldier protest loudly.

Dang, I can't think of a witty comment...

[Ashtagon]

Regarding psionics, the old game has psi blasts and mind control only. In an RPG there is certainly room to expand on that, but there does seem to be an impression for me that psi is extremely limited in potential scope.

I'm thinking a homebrewed psionics-based class, but one that grows linearly instead of quadrilaterally.

[Morghen]

Never played X-COM, never done PbP, still interested in joining up if you're not over the cap.

I promise to not be an *******.

[Surrealistik]

Would like to join; have a character I've been kicking around for awhile, explicitly made for an X-Com game (he's been in 2 thus far, and both have fallen through).

[Dire Panda]

As you may have guessed, my planned PbP has fallen through - sorry for not informing you all earlier. I recently found full-time employment as a nuclear engineer and have had to severely curtail my RPG'ing activities due to time constraints. Hopefully someone else has the time and desire to run an X-COM game?

[Hylas]

Bummer to hear that, but I'm glad you've found a good job. Nuclear Engineer is pretty boss. Physics on the quantum level gets a little tricky for me when it comes to the math, so I kept to chemistry.

[RagingKrikkit]

Wow, quite a job.

[yaggisdill]

More of me playing around, due to lack of player interest, but does anyone have a suggestion for a good set of rules to use with an X-COM RPG?

For those that don't know what X-COM is, it's an old DOS game where you run a secret organization to combat invading aliens. Eventually you can steal their technology and reverse-engineer it to upgrade your troops. Each player would run their own guy, or squad of guys if there's few players.

The system would need to be able to support a modern (specifically 1999 AD) setting but also futuristic tech to represent research and advancing technology. Being able to support psionic or similar powers is a plus.

I was thinking either GURPS or a heavily refluffed Warhammer 40k would be good, but I was wondering if anyone else had a suggestion.

I modified Call of Cthulhu would work. If you wanted a more stealth and covert panic prevention group World War Cthulhu would work. For action Atchung Cthulhu would work perfectly, since your fighting cthulhu mythos which are already basically aliens already. The sanity feature would be really awesome because we have never encountered this before and alien actions could drive your character insane. Making life that much harder for you.

[Milodiah]

Guys.

Just gonna throw this out there.


Delta Green for Call of Cthulhu practically is X-COM.

Except instead of Skyrangers and world government support, it's "an FBI agent or two plus some guy from the NOAA and maybe a park ranger are put in a covert cell by a bunch of guys they've never met and know only as "A Cell", told there's a storage unit in Topeka with some assorted useful (and useless) crap in it, and told to go deal with a Mi-Go shadow operation while Delta Green's leadership arranges for them to have a week of unpaid vacation. Also, if you tell anyone at all you're Delta Green, or hint that Delta Green exists, we'll kill you before They kill you and everyone else in Delta Green."


EDIT:

I should clarify, that's how Delta Green is more or less meant to be played. I've heard of games of Delta Green that give A-Cell much more power, so it's more of an actual shadow agency rather than the shadow of a former shadow agency. So being able to call down an airstrike as a 'training exercise' or something along those lines could work; I should add the Delta Green framework goes out the window when the world realizes there are, in fact, evil aliens, and you could always change it to fit when that happens.

[Knaight]

Nemesis could be really good for this. It's pretty similar to Delta Green - it's a horror game where the protagonists are expected to go down fighting, and while they can succumb to madness in various ways it's far more likely that they end in a blaze of gunfire, taking something down with them.

It's also a free game, is only 60 pages long, and still has a lot of mechanical sophistication to work with - along with modeling fairly subtle differences in weapons, materials, etc. fairly well.

[Cikomyr]

Wait a minute..

- Weapons ranging from modern techs to highly-developped plasma/laser technologies, both in shotgun, sniper, assault rifle and pistols
- high lethality
- Need to cover effectively combat, but also stealth, research, investigation

Nobody thought about adapting Dark Heresy?

there's even a psychic system in place!!!


Dark Heresy would always be my first go-to for Modern-futuristic RPG settings. If I ever run a Fallout RPG, it'll be on Dark Heresy.

[The Oni]

FATAL

not a serious suggestion