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Empedocles
2012-06-15, 08:01 PM
I'm sort of interested in watching some Pokemon, and I'm wondering where exactly to start. I'd prefer not to start with the very first ancient episodes, but I do want to start at the beginning of a series of some sort (not miss much).

An Enemy Spy
2012-06-15, 08:06 PM
Watch the entire series backwards. That way you'll see the conclusion and have to find out how they got there.

Empedocles
2012-06-15, 08:48 PM
Watch the entire series backwards. That way you'll see the conclusion and have to find out how they got there.

...

From what I understand, there's more then one "series..." or am I mistaken?

Deth Muncher
2012-06-15, 08:55 PM
...

From what I understand, there's more then one "series..." or am I mistaken?

You're...sort of mistaken.

Technically speaking, there is a different "series" for each game that comes out, which make up the overarching series that is the Pokemon anime.

Really and truly, though? If you want the WHOLE story, you're gonna need to start at the beginning, and I really encourage you to do so. If you're not quite as interested in that, then start at the one before the current series to get yourself acquainted.

An Enemy Spy
2012-06-15, 08:55 PM
...

From what I understand, there's more then one "series..." or am I mistaken?

Yeah, but they all go in chronological order, so the concept is the same.

Lord Seth
2012-06-15, 09:14 PM
Start at the beginning, easily. The earlier episodes are significantly better than the later ones.

Though personally I'd suggest scrapping the anime and just reading the Pokemon Adventures (or "Pocket Monsters Special") manga instead.

OracleofWuffing
2012-06-15, 09:19 PM
Since you're talking about the main anime series, the terms "Series" and "Seasons" get used kinda interchangeably. In USA, they actually started airing the show with Season 1 (Indigo League, featuring most of the stuff in Pokemon R/B/Y), episode 44 (The Problem with Paras). The Orange Island series (Season 2) is a gigantic made-up filler series that doesn't try to correspond to the games even more than usual. The next three seasons are all based on the Pokemon Gold, Silver, and Crystal games.

So, Season 6 (Pokemon Advance) would be where the dubbing rights went from 4Kids to Pokemon USA, so everyone's voice is different, and people occasionally talk about whether that was a good thing or a bad thing. Seasons 6 and 7 are based sort of around the Ruby and Sapphire games, while 8 and 9 have him go back to the same region as Season 1.

Seasons 8, 9, 10, and 11 are all based on Diamond and Pearl, which brings us to 11 and 12, which are based on the most recent Black and White games (at least until the next game gets released in a couple of weeks).

So, like, I'd actually start where they start in a new region. Season 6 Episode 1 was the 275th episode, or Season 10 episode 1 would be the 467th episode. Season 11 episode 1 would be the 658th episode. I'd go with whatever best represents the games you liked best, but if you're concerned about watching too many episodes, probably season 11 ep 1 would be the best place to start because you would catch up to the modern day and be able to decide if you want to keep going.

There's also the Pokemon Chronicles series, which is a collection of less than 30 spin-off-ish episodes that don't really hold together a story but do a bit of exploring of the anime's world on their own.

Traab
2012-06-15, 09:54 PM
I honestly would suggest starting from the beginning. I mean, ash was the main character for a lot of years, and I think its worth it to see his character grow and evolve. He is hilariously inept at the start, and only the fact that he apparently was given a level 30 pikachu as a starter allowed him to so much as survive the first week. (God that little yellow rodent was overpowered) But it was interesting because as he learned little tips and tricks, the audience got to learn them as well. You know, little tips like, "Hmm, maybe using my pikachu to fight a ^%$&^%$# gym leaders onix and geodude wouldnt be the best choice if my pikachu wasnt 30 levels too high for this guy."

Empedocles
2012-06-15, 10:38 PM
Alright, I'm starting from the beginning beginning.

Any links to good places to watch it?

thubby
2012-06-16, 01:19 AM
we're not really allowed to link to pirate sites. so unless crunchyroll has it... *shrugs*

Grue Bait
2012-06-16, 01:26 AM
I think Hulu has it. If you don't mind the commercials, that is.

AtlanteanTroll
2012-06-16, 01:41 AM
I think Toonami Aftermath has a bit of it up.

Yuki Akuma
2012-06-16, 01:57 AM
I honestly would suggest starting from the beginning. I mean, ash was the main character for a lot of years, and I think its worth it to see his character grow and evolve.

This.

For an episodic anime with an incredibly stretched plot, the main character has a startling amount of character development over the years.

Aotrs Commander
2012-06-16, 04:37 AM
Start at the beginning, easily. The earlier episodes are significantly better than the later ones.

I concur.

Be aware that the first couple of Jotho seasons (3+4) are fairly moribund but the conclusion (season 5) is one of the best seasons, period, though the start of the advance generation (season 6) was a close season.

(I confess I'm not up-to-date past season 8 myself yet, Pokemon got pushed aside out of my primary DVD-getting-stuff by Naruto and I got out of the habit. I started watching through from the beginning myself about a year ago, and got as far as the epidodes chronologically prior to the first movie, which is where I'll pick it up again at some point!)

Traab
2012-06-16, 08:53 AM
This.

For an episodic anime with an incredibly stretched plot, the main character has a startling amount of character development over the years.

My main complaint in his development is that it seems like there is an awful lot of rubber banding. He is a total moron, then he is this unstoppable pokemon master in training, then he goes back to idiot mode. Its hard to pick out specific instances, as im not that big a fan of the series, (at least not in years) but it seemed there were several times where we see him winning fights with the level of skill someone who has been battling and winning for several years now SHOULD show, and then a week or two later he is back to the level of attacking a pidgey with a caterpie.

If you think about it objectively, Ash is frighteningly immature, and does not show the experience he should have by the end of his run. I mean, he is in weekly fights for his life against team rocket or whoever. They may act campy and goofy, but their methods of grabbing pikachu at times get downright deadly. Plus the constant pokebattles, the self sufficiency as there is more often than not NO pokecenter for him to hang out in. He has to be able to care for himself and his pokemon, and yet he is still very much so a kid. He DOES improve, I cant deny that, but his improvement seems far more incremental than you would expect.

CapnRedBeard
2012-06-16, 10:45 AM
There is a young boy trainer named Ash.

He gets a pokemon and decides that he wants to be a trainer.

He wins many battles...and loses a few too. Often learns valuable life lessons as a result.

I don't know the ending but I'm assuming it's: He becomes the champion.

Whiffet
2012-06-16, 11:29 AM
I don't know the ending but I'm assuming it's: He becomes the champion.

Ha ha ha. :smallbiggrin: Don't be silly.

Suichimo
2012-06-16, 12:10 PM
There is a young boy trainer named Ash.

He gets a pokemon and decides that he wants to be a trainer.

He wins many battles...and loses a few too. Often learns valuable life lessons as a result.

I don't know the ending but I'm assuming it's: He becomes the champion.

Actually, and I'll spoiler this since this thread is about seeing it the first time:

He gets his ass kicked early on in the Kanto League tournament. He then parts with all of his pokemon in various ways, Pidgeot stays with a group of Pidgey and Charizard goes to a place where there are a lot of his kind, except for Pikachu who stays with him. Then he heads out for Johto.

Traab
2012-06-16, 12:14 PM
Actually, and I'll spoiler this since this thread is about seeing it the first time:

He gets his ass kicked early on in the Kanto League tournament. He then parts with all of his pokemon in various ways, Pidgeot stays with a group of Pidgey and Charizard goes to a place where there are a lot of his kind, except for Pikachu who stays with him. Then he heads out for Johto.

Well yeah, but he did that on purpose, he wanted to start over, to "go back to his roots" or whatever. So instead of bringing along all his super buff top 16 level pokemon, he brought his pikachu and started fresh. There was probably an element of proving himself or some such thing, its been awhile.

Mando Knight
2012-06-16, 12:35 PM
I don't know the ending but I'm assuming it's: He becomes the champion.

Well...
Then it hasn't ended yet. :smalltongue:

Unless you count the Orange Islands. Which don't really count.

Suichimo
2012-06-16, 12:40 PM
Well yeah, but he did that on purpose, he wanted to start over, to "go back to his roots" or whatever. So instead of bringing along all his super buff top 16 level pokemon, he brought his pikachu and started fresh. There was probably an element of proving himself or some such thing, its been awhile.

I'm aware, as much as I thought it was idiotic. Just summing up the end of Kanto.

thubby
2012-06-16, 05:37 PM
I'm aware, as much as I thought it was idiotic. Just summing up the end of Kanto.

it's a good way to get familiar with more pokemon and how different areas battle.
not something I would do, but hardly "idiotic"

Traab
2012-06-16, 05:45 PM
it's a good way to get familiar with more pokemon and how different areas battle.
not something I would do, but hardly "idiotic"

Also, from a series balance angle, it seems to me that by him keeping his champion lineup of original, all special, pokemon, that the power creep of the series would be blown way out of whack. Think about it, if ash takes his champion pokemon into the start of this new area, and struggles, that means either all the pokemon in that area are just naturally stronger than his wimpy kanto region pokeomon, or all new trainers in this area are doomed to failure. Because if a guy who made it as far as ash did cant hack it with ease, what hope does a newbie with a cindaquil have?

Mando Knight
2012-06-16, 07:34 PM
It's bad enough that Pikachu goes from holding his own in championships to struggling against the first gym leader in the next region. Because of that, I like that they had Ash send his Charizard away... it means that when he calls on Charizard, there's some serious winning to do.

IrnBruAddict
2012-06-16, 08:13 PM
Know what to do? Skip the anime and read the manga. Much better plot, and makes more sense than the anime. Or, watch the new series Best Wishes. It's pretty much a reboot of the first, with only Team Rocket linking it to the old show. And even they stop sucking after a while.

Traab
2012-06-17, 08:22 AM
It's bad enough that Pikachu goes from holding his own in championships to struggling against the first gym leader in the next region. Because of that, I like that they had Ash send his Charizard away... it means that when he calls on Charizard, there's some serious winning to do.

Wasnt the first gym leader another brock? By which I mean rock type or some such? Or was that Nosepass thing from another series?

OracleofWuffing
2012-06-17, 03:03 PM
A little side-benefit from starting from the beginning is that the first generation probably has the best Pokerap.


Wasnt the first gym leader another brock? By which I mean rock type or some such? Or was that Nosepass thing from another series?
Sounds like you're talking about Roxanne's Nosepass (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/AG016). That said, in-game, Rock types like Nosepass actually take regular damage from Electric attacks, it's the Ground types that are immune to those. But if we're really at that level, Geodude got taken out by Thunder and Pikachu got recharged from Zap Cannon, so this is just one of those things that you're just not supposed to think about.

Qwertystop
2012-06-17, 03:32 PM
It's bad enough that Pikachu goes from holding his own in championships to struggling against the first gym leader in the next region. Because of that, I like that they had Ash send his Charizard away... it means that when he calls on Charizard, there's some serious winning to do.

Since, at least in the games, there's no Official League Ruling that you have to do the gyms in a certain order (only circumstantial roadblocks), it's possible that the gym leaders bring out different teams depending on the strength of the challenger. That would also explain the postgame bits where all the leaders suddenly have massively boosted teams. They're bringing their best.

AtlanteanTroll
2012-06-17, 05:18 PM
Know what to do? Skip the anime and read the manga. Much better plot, and makes more sense than the anime. Or, watch the new series Best Wishes. It's pretty much a reboot of the first, with only Team Rocket linking it to the old show. And even they stop sucking after a while.

I agree with this for the most part, but you should obviously watch the first season... Although I have a great fondness for the Orange Island Arc for some reason. You may also enjoy Johto as it is sort of the direct sequel to Kanto.

Traab
2012-06-17, 09:34 PM
Since, at least in the games, there's no Official League Ruling that you have to do the gyms in a certain order (only circumstantial roadblocks), it's possible that the gym leaders bring out different teams depending on the strength of the challenger. That would also explain the postgame bits where all the leaders suddenly have massively boosted teams. They're bringing their best.

There is also the fact that I dont think the pokemon in the tv shows strictly speaking, level up. They can get faster, stronger, tougher, and learn new abilities, but its not like ash's pikachu is a level 99 or whatever. So the fact that his pikachu is a veteran doesnt mean he would automatically stomp all over the other gym leaders. Though it should give him an advantage.

Iirc, alot of ash's problems in the new leagues was adapting to new things like different gym battles such as tag team fights, or new pokemon with unusual abilities, like torcoals overheat. Whereas a new trainer starting in that area would be more likely to be aware of these things and have practiced beforehand. So Ash and his more powerful pokemon, are offset by his inexperience in that league, while the newbie trainers experience with the style of fighting and abilities of the pokemon are offset by their lack of combat experienced pokemon.


Although I have a great fondness for the Orange Island Arc for some reason.

I liked it because it was his first real championship victory. It was a symbol of his progress on the path to being a pokemon master.

Whiffet
2012-06-18, 01:11 PM
Since, at least in the games, there's no Official League Ruling that you have to do the gyms in a certain order (only circumstantial roadblocks), it's possible that the gym leaders bring out different teams depending on the strength of the challenger. That would also explain the postgame bits where all the leaders suddenly have massively boosted teams. They're bringing their best.

That's been my headcanon for years.

cleric_of_BANJO
2012-06-18, 06:57 PM
Also, from a series balance angle, it seems to me that by him keeping his champion lineup of original, all special, pokemon, that the power creep of the series would be blown way out of whack. Think about it, if ash takes his champion pokemon into the start of this new area, and struggles, that means either all the pokemon in that area are just naturally stronger than his wimpy kanto region pokeomon, or all new trainers in this area are doomed to failure. Because if a guy who made it as far as ash did cant hack it with ease, what hope does a newbie with a cindaquil have?

Except they didn't even follow that philosophy in the games. For example, once you beat Gold/Silver/Crystal, you get to travel back to Kanto, and all the gym leaders have level 30+ pokemon.

Also, there's a general lack of balance when it comes to how strong people's pokemon are. For example, the first gym leader will have pokemon no higher than level 14 (if I remember correctly, though I haven't played gen 4/5). Yet, any random you find later in the game will have better pokemon. How does it make sense that a small girl sunbathing on the Slateport beach (r/s/e) has pokemon that could individually beat a gym leader? How come you don't find an even mix of strong and weak trainers everywhere, which would make the most logical sense - instead they're distributed in a linear fashion, as if trainers with good pokemon knew they had to stand in a certain place so they'd be challenging for you.

It's the same logic that says you don't fight low level monsters once you're high level in DnD. Why do Knolls disappear when you reach level 15?

Qwertystop
2012-06-18, 08:19 PM
Except they didn't even follow that philosophy in the games. For example, once you beat Gold/Silver/Crystal, you get to travel back to Kanto, and all the gym leaders have level 30+ pokemon.

Also, there's a general lack of balance when it comes to how strong people's pokemon are. For example, the first gym leader will have pokemon no higher than level 14 (if I remember correctly, though I haven't played gen 4/5). Yet, any random you find later in the game will have better pokemon. How does it make sense that a small girl sunbathing on the Slateport beach (r/s/e) has pokemon that could individually beat a gym leader? How come you don't find an even mix of strong and weak trainers everywhere, which would make the most logical sense - instead they're distributed in a linear fashion, as if trainers with good pokemon knew they had to stand in a certain place so they'd be challenging for you.

It's the same logic that says you don't fight low level monsters once you're high level in DnD. Why do Knolls disappear when you reach level 15?

Fairly obvious to me. People who live in areas with stronger wilds have stronger Pokemon. Gym Leaders are explained in my previous post.

As for why some areas have strong wilds, the same is true in real life. Some areas might have bears or mountain lions, but where I live, the most dangerous things around are coyotes (I think. One of those animals thats like a small wolf but isn't, anyway), and I don't know anybody who says they've actually seen one. Most dangerous animal I've seen outside a zoo is a deer.


I'd say that people without Pokemon live in areas with weak wilds out of necessity. If they get pokemon, they might move. That would also explain why the big cities are always in the areas with stronger pokemon, and the early areas only have a couple of houses.

Whiffet
2012-06-18, 11:41 PM
In my mind, it is socially accepted that trainers should find out the other trainer's strength and only challenge if they are close to each other. It is considered rude to challenge a trainer who is much weaker than you. Obviously the player is prone to being a jerk. Or the other trainers are overly confident, whatever.

As for wild Pokemon... yeah, I got nothing.

Of course, all of this is game universe. Anime universe, there's no point trying to find logic anywhere. My best attempts include "Ash gets a new Pikachu every time he goes to a new region; the old Pikachu is killed because consuming Pikachu hearts halts the aging process for an indeterminate number of years."

Mewtarthio
2012-06-19, 12:08 PM
In my mind, it is socially accepted that trainers should find out the other trainer's strength and only challenge if they are close to each other. It is considered rude to challenge a trainer who is much weaker than you. Obviously the player is prone to being a jerk.

I was going to argue that they are challenging you, but then I realized that the PC is a heroic mime. We have no idea what he says that makes the trainers fight you. Maybe when the youngster walks up to you and says "I like shorts!", he's just trying to make small talk, only for the PC to fly into an incoherent rage and demand a Pokemon battle on the spot.


Of course, all of this is game universe. Anime universe, there's no point trying to find logic anywhere. My best attempts include "Ash gets a new Pikachu every time he goes to a new region; the old Pikachu is killed because consuming Pikachu hearts halts the aging process for an indeterminate number of years."

Don't be silly. Clearly all the legendaries that get captured in the game universe had important roles to play in the maintenance of space-time. The legendaries of the anime universe have to pull double shifts to make up for it. Thus, the multiverse becomes shoddier, resulting in strange temporal anomalies, such as Ash being perpetually ten years old, Pikachu periodically reverting back to starter Pokemon power levels, and Team Rocket becoming functionally immortal.

darksolitaire
2012-06-19, 01:04 PM
I was going to argue that they are challenging you, but then I realized that the PC is a heroic mime. We have no idea what he says that makes the trainers fight you. Maybe when the youngster walks up to you and says "I like shorts!", he's just trying to make small talk, only for the PC to fly into an incoherent rage and demand a Pokemon battle on the spot.


IIRC, looking another trainer into their eyes is a challenge. Pokemon trainers, in this manner, act as a pack of predatory animals which vie each other for dominance. :smallbiggrin:

Whiffet
2012-06-19, 04:53 PM
IIRC, looking another trainer into their eyes is a challenge. Pokemon trainers, in this manner, act as a pack of predatory animals which vie each other for dominance. :smallbiggrin:

Supposedly that's true. The problem? The games don't care if you don't make eye contact. You can find one of the trainers who moves around, stand so your back is to the trainer, and when they move and see you there's still a Pokemon battle.

No, challenges are clearly verbal. If "look another trainer in the eyes" was the challenge, then just conversing with trainers would be too risky. It would be easy to accidentally look in the wrong direction and force a battle. The only reason it wouldn't be even worse is because I think eye contact is considered rude instead of polite in Japan. I could be wrong on that, though; I'm not exactly an expert on Japanese manners.