Baseball

[Gaelbert]

Anyone else follow the great American pastime? My roommate and I just picked up MLBtv for the apartment, the Dodgers are in the Bay Area to play against the Athletics, I'm going to skip class and be able to see all the games in the series, and the Dodgers are the best team (according to win pct.) in the NL, so it's a good time to be a Dodgers fan. Best time in my life, actually. It's been a long drought, but I think I see the flood coming! Anyways, anyone else been paying attention this season? What teams do you pull for/how much do you hate Bryce Harper/how much do you love Cole Hamel/World Series and playoff picks go!

I'm not a big fan of Bryce Harper. Kid has talent, but the attitude is unbecoming. Heard him described as a non-racist Ty Cob, which seems about right.
For the World Series, I'd put my money on the Dodgers! For a more serious pick, I'd go with the Rangers. Josh Hamilton can't keep his numbers like this all year, but unlike the Dodgers (as I'm sad to say), the Rangers aren't a one trick pony. Rangers have depth.
Also, what happened to the Tigers? Looking at them at the beginning of the year, I'd have put good money on them to get the rings. But now? Not so much.

[Whiffet]

I'm not exactly a "baseball fan." I find most major league games to be so horribly boring that they aren't worth watching. Minor league games are more fun to watch, though. I don't follow how teams are doing and such, but if there's a chance to watch a game it can be great fun. :smallbiggrin:

[Gaelbert]

I'm not exactly a "baseball fan." I find most major league games to be so horribly boring that they aren't worth watching. Minor league games are more fun to watch, though. I don't follow how teams are doing and such, but if there's a chance to watch a game it can be great fun. :smallbiggrin:

I just don't understand that. The reason I love watching baseball are for the subtleties: the locations and types of pitches thrown depending on the count and the batter, the psychological battle between the pitcher and batter, the ballsy suicide squeeze with two outs that manages to pay off. Most of the time when people say baseball is boring to watch, it's because they come in with different expectations or lack understanding of the more advanced aspects of the game. That's why I'm glad to see the steroid era come to a close for more reasons than one. I love me a pitchers duel. And while I've seen more minor league games than most (possibly a few hundred), they just aren't quite the same. I will say though, the atmosphere at a ballgame if you have a few buddies with you? Priceless, no matter what level the play.

Also, I think I've just fallen in love with RA Dickey.

[Rallicus]

Not a huge fan.

Granted, I'm involved in a fantasy baseball league at the moment and I do go to games occasionally, usually when I get free tickets, but other than that the baseball just doesn't appeal to me. I went to game 7 of the world series when I was about 14, when the Angels won, and even then I found it to be very dull.

However I have noticed that drinking beer and watching a live game piques my interest in the sport significantly. Now if only the beers didn't cost an arm and a leg to purchase...

[ForzaFiori]

I don't follow MLB, but I watch the CWS every year. Even years like the past couple where USC has been doing good and Clemson barely makes it through regionals. :smallfurious:

In fact, the Arkansas-USC game is on my TV right now. (thank god Arkansas is winning).

[Joran]

What teams do you pull for/how much do you hate Bryce Harper/how much do you love Cole Hamel/World Series and playoff picks go!

I'm not a big fan of Bryce Harper. Kid has talent, but the attitude is unbecoming. Heard him described as a non-racist Ty Cob, which seems about right.

As a Nationals semi-fan, I don't really understand the Bryce Harper hate. He's done nothing this season to really arouse that much hatred. I can understand thinking he was a bit of a twerp last season (copped a bit of an attitude in the minors, shaved his hair oddly, wore a ton of eyeblack), but he's done nothing but play hard and show all due respect at the major league level this season.

First time up, Cole Hamels drills him in the back, completely intentionally and unwarranted. Bryce Harper doesn't complain to the ump, doesn't try to go after Hamels. Instead, he reacted the way a baseball fan would want, by playing hard (going from first to third by hustling on a single, then stealing home).

When Bryce Harper hits a home run, he doesn't linger and watch it fly, he runs around the bases. There's in fact a website that tracks how fast a person rounds the bases and 3 of the top 5 are Bryce Harper. He's not showing up any pitcher he manages to take deep.

Harper also plays with a ridiculous amount of effort and does what the team asks of him. I think he's played all 3 outfield positions. He was also benched for a game, came in as a pinch hitter, took a walk and then was the game-winning run by running as hard as he could on the bases.

The man plays with maximum effort, seems to adhere to all the silly unwritten rules in baseball, and has jaw-dropping athletic talent. I don't see what's not to at least respect if not like about Bryce Harper as a player.

P.S. Besides, he managed to coin one of the best memes for about an hour "That's a clown question, bro."

[Gaelbert]

Not a huge fan.

Granted, I'm involved in a fantasy baseball league at the moment and I do go to games occasionally, usually when I get free tickets, but other than that the baseball just doesn't appeal to me. I went to game 7 of the world series when I was about 14, when the Angels won, and even then I found it to be very dull.

However I have noticed that drinking beer and watching a live game piques my interest in the sport significantly. Now if only the beers didn't cost an arm and a leg to purchase...

http://www.thebeerbelly.com/Beerbelly_p/200-001.htm


As a Nationals semi-fan, I don't really understand the Bryce Harper hate. He's done nothing this season to really arouse that much hatred. I can understand thinking he was a bit of a twerp last season (copped a bit of an attitude in the minors, shaved his hair oddly, wore a ton of eyeblack), but he's done nothing but play hard and show all due respect at the major league level this season.

First time up, Cole Hamels drills him in the back, completely intentionally and unwarranted. Bryce Harper doesn't complain to the ump, doesn't try to go after Hamels. Instead, he reacted the way a baseball fan would want, by playing hard (going from first to third by hustling on a single, then stealing home).

When Bryce Harper hits a home run, he doesn't linger and watch it fly, he runs around the bases. There's in fact a website that tracks how fast a person rounds the bases and 3 of the top 5 are Bryce Harper. He's not showing up any pitcher he manages to take deep.

Harper also plays with a ridiculous amount of effort and does what the team asks of him. I think he's played all 3 outfield positions. He was also benched for a game, came in as a pinch hitter, took a walk and then was the game-winning run by running as hard as he could on the bases.

The man plays with maximum effort, seems to adhere to all the silly unwritten rules in baseball, and has jaw-dropping athletic talent. I don't see what's not to at least respect if not like about Bryce Harper as a player.

P.S. Besides, he managed to coin one of the best memes for about an hour "That's a clown question, bro."

Hey, I admitted it. He has talent. A lot of talent. But his ego far outstrips that. He's already saying he's the best player to ever live, so on and so forth. And sure, he can play hard when he thinks he can make a flashy play, something for the Top 10 plays of the day. But other than that, not so much. Cal Ripken Jr. is my personal hero. Played hard day in and day out, played well, kept his head on his shoulders his entire career. Bryce Harper is the opposite of all of that, other than the talented part. And the thing is? There are some equally talented young prospects in the league today, people like Mike (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1225942-bryce-harper-vs-mike-trout-5-reasons-trout-is-the-top-long-term-star) Trout (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/nationals-journal/post/angels-mike-trout-is-putting-up-better-rookie-numbers-than-bryce-harper/2012/06/15/gJQAkSKjfV_blog.html) who have better numbers in their rookie year and yet aren't massive pricks about it.

[Whiffet]

I just don't understand that. The reason I love watching baseball are for the subtleties: the locations and types of pitches thrown depending on the count and the batter, the psychological battle between the pitcher and batter, the ballsy suicide squeeze with two outs that manages to pay off. Most of the time when people say baseball is boring to watch, it's because they come in with different expectations or lack understanding of the more advanced aspects of the game. That's why I'm glad to see the steroid era come to a close for more reasons than one. I love me a pitchers duel. And while I've seen more minor league games than most (possibly a few hundred), they just aren't quite the same. I will say though, the atmosphere at a ballgame if you have a few buddies with you? Priceless, no matter what level the play.

Also, I think I've just fallen in love with RA Dickey.

It may have something to do with the fact that I'm in Kansas City and our major league team sucks. :smalltongue: (Yes, I realize we won after fifteen innings yesterday, but even the worst teams will win every once in a while.)

[Joran]

Hey, I admitted it. He has talent. A lot of talent. But his ego far outstrips that. He's already saying he's the best player to ever live, so on and so forth.

Can I get a citation on that?


And sure, he can play hard when he thinks he can make a flashy play, something for the Top 10 plays of the day.

No, he plays all out, all the time. I have yet to see him use anything other than maximum effort on every play. Show me one play where he loafed.


There are some equally talented young prospects in the league today, people like Mike Trout who have better numbers in their rookie year and yet aren't massive pricks about it.

That's not Bryce Harper's fault, that's the media's fault. Also, in their defense, while Mike Trout may be having the better rookie season, Bryce Harper is having probably the best season a 19 year old has ever had and that augurs well for the future. Since he's come up, Bryce Harper has been the Nationals' best hitter, which is darn impressive for a rookie.

All of that "massive prick" stuff is from last year. As I've mentioned, after he was called up this year, he's been nothing but a model citizen, playing the game it's supposed to be played and saying the right things (insert cliche here). His teammates love him, the fans love him, his coach loves him, and the media loves him.

This doesn't mean that some of the immaturity may not come back (he is 19 after all), but for the moment, he's seemed like he's matured. Give him some time before you judge him.

P.S. I also love Dickey. I can't help it, I love knuckleballers; they're practitioners of a dark art.

[Anarion]

Anyone else follow the great American pastime? My roommate and I just picked up MLBtv for the apartment, the Dodgers are in the Bay Area to play against the Athletics, I'm going to skip class and be able to see all the games in the series, and the Dodgers are the best team (according to win pct.) in the NL, so it's a good time to be a Dodgers fan. Best time in my life, actually. It's been a long drought, but I think I see the flood coming! Anyways, anyone else been paying attention this season? What teams do you pull for/how much do you hate Bryce Harper/how much do you love Cole Hamel/World Series and playoff picks go!


Just this once, I'm going to forgive you for being a Dodgers fan. But I assure you, at some point in this season, the Giants are going to catch up and take NL West first place. Probably about the same time that Lincecum figures out what's wrong with his consistency and starts winning games again. I predict mid-July.




P.S. I also love Dickey. I can't help it, I love knuckleballers; they're practitioners of a dark art.

This is truth. Pretty sure knuckleball pitchers are descended from some ancient line of wizards or something.

[Crow]

I'm a Padres fan. It's a painful existence for the most part. Especially when the team is doing well and you're just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

[Gaelbert]

It may have something to do with the fact that I'm in Kansas City and our major league team sucks. :smalltongue: (Yes, I realize we won after fifteen innings yesterday, but even the worst teams will win every once in a while.)

Ooph. Sorry mate. That's rough.


Can I get a citation on that?

No, he plays all out, all the time. I have yet to see him use anything other than maximum effort on every play. Show me one play where he loafed.

That's not Bryce Harper's fault, that's the media's fault. Also, in their defense, while Mike Trout may be having the better rookie season, Bryce Harper is having probably the best season a 19 year old has ever had and that augurs well for the future. Since he's come up, Bryce Harper has been the Nationals' best hitter, which is darn impressive for a rookie.

All of that "massive prick" stuff is from last year. As I've mentioned, after he was called up this year, he's been nothing but a model citizen, playing the game it's supposed to be played and saying the right things (insert cliche here). His teammates love him, the fans love him, his coach loves him, and the media loves him.

This doesn't mean that some of the immaturity may not come back (he is 19 after all), but for the moment, he's seemed like he's matured. Give him some time before you judge him.

P.S. I also love Dickey. I can't help it, I love knuckleballers; they're practitioners of a dark art.

1. Sports Illustrated article on him. Last year maybe? A little while back.

2. Can't think of a play off the top of my head, just my impression after watching a number of Nats games this year. I'll be honest, I'm biased against him so there is that.

3. Yeah, most of the egregious stuff is from last year. But I'm not convinced he's really changed that much. I would love to like him. As much as I dislike the obsession with power hitting, I like a talented young rookie as much as the next person. Probably more. And I particularly love speedy players. I just want him to pay his dues to the legends of the past, or at least wait to say he's better than them until after he's played a few years in the majors. Baseball has a long and fabled history, and he wouldn't be anywhere without the House that Ruth built, etc. Respect. It really does matter to me.

[Joran]

1. Sports Illustrated article on him. Last year maybe? A little while back.

2. Can't think of a play off the top of my head, just my impression after watching a number of Nats games this year. I'll be honest, I'm biased against him so there is that.

3. Yeah, most of the egregious stuff is from last year. But I'm not convinced he's really changed that much. I would love to like him. As much as I dislike the obsession with power hitting, I like a talented young rookie as much as the next person. Probably more. And I particularly love speedy players. I just want him to pay his dues to the legends of the past, or at least wait to say he's better than them until after he's played a few years in the majors. Baseball has a long and fabled history, and he wouldn't be anywhere without the House that Ruth built, etc. Respect. It really does matter to me.

Okay, pulled the article, not seeing the "I'm going to be the greatest ever" quote; instead, I got a lot of old school baseball talk. Here's his actual quotes:

"I love taking time with little kids no matter what, because those are the guys that are going to be watching me the rest of my life. Those are the ones who are going to be looking up to me in the next couple of years, and hopefully I'll be playing this game for a while. Those are the type of guys I need to sign for. I want them to look up to me and say, 'Hey, Bryce plays the game the right way.' "

"I'm going to take you out at second base," Harper says. "I'm going to put your catcher in the seats. That's baseball. Look at Pete Rose and the [1970] All-Star Game. It sucks that [catcher Ray Fosse's] career was never the same after that, but that's how [Rose] played. That's what I want people to know about me. I'm going to go out and give 100 percent every single day no matter what."

Asked if he needed to change, Harper says, "I don't think I do. I think maybe when I was younger I did, coming out of high school. My mentality was, "Hey, I'm better than you. Better than everybody in the world".... Thing is, if you don't have that mentality, you're not going to perform. When you step in that batters' box, you have to know you're better than that pitcher."

Citation: Sports Illustrated, "The Game's Future is Biding His Time"

The worst thing I've read from him is from GQ:

"One minute he informs me that "baseball needs more superstars." The next, while discussing Albert Pujols signing with the Angels, he offers thoughtlessly, "Albert and I know each other and respect each other."...

Echoing your description:

"In other words: Harper is awesome—exactly what baseball needs. He's essentially a throwback: a cocky, ornery cuss who can back it all up. Ty Cobb minus the racism and chaw, Lenny Dykstra before the bankruptcy. He tells me Pete Rose, a.k.a. Charlie Hustle, is his favorite player and that "I want to play the game hard. I want to ram it down your throat, put you into left field when I'm going into second base."

P.S. All I'm asking is that you keep an open mind. Harper so far this year is playing really good, hard working baseball and making a tremendous difference on a first place team. He's spectacular to watch, with cannon for an arm, speed on the bases (and not afraid to use it), and a lively bat.

He could still be an arrogant a-hole, but everyone from the media, his teammates, and his coach love him and he's doing and saying all the right things.

[Gaelbert]

Just this once, I'm going to forgive you for being a Dodgers fan. But I assure you, at some point in this season, the Giants are going to catch up and take NL West first place. Probably about the same time that Lincecum figures out what's wrong with his consistency and starts winning games again. I predict mid-July.


Lincecum had a similar struggle during the middle of last year, right? Not as long and not as bad, but it took him a little while to get back up to speed. Not sure if that's the case now, though. I'm thinking Lincecum might be one of those pitchers who comes in, has an amazing year (or couple of years), and then is a barely above average pitcher for the rest of his career. If it makes you feel any better, that might be what's happening to Kershaw too, although not quite as dramatically.
And the Dodgers are playing the Giants next week in SF! I'm trying to rustle up the cash to get to a game or two, if I remember correctly the Giant's ballpark (what are they calling it these days? Not AT&T anymore, right) can be expensive.


Okay, pulled the article, not seeing the "I'm going to be the greatest ever" quote; instead, I got a lot of old school baseball talk. Here's his actual quotes:

"I love taking time with little kids no matter what, because those are the guys that are going to be watching me the rest of my life. Those are the ones who are going to be looking up to me in the next couple of years, and hopefully I'll be playing this game for a while. Those are the type of guys I need to sign for. I want them to look up to me and say, 'Hey, Bryce plays the game the right way.' "

"I'm going to take you out at second base," Harper says. "I'm going to put your catcher in the seats. That's baseball. Look at Pete Rose and the [1970] All-Star Game. It sucks that [catcher Ray Fosse's] career was never the same after that, but that's how [Rose] played. That's what I want people to know about me. I'm going to go out and give 100 percent every single day no matter what."

Asked if he needed to change, Harper says, "I don't think I do. I think maybe when I was younger I did, coming out of high school. My mentality was, "Hey, I'm better than you. Better than everybody in the world".... Thing is, if you don't have that mentality, you're not going to perform. When you step in that batters' box, you have to know you're better than that pitcher."

Citation: Sports Illustrated, "The Game's Future is Biding His Time"

The worst thing I've read from him is from GQ:

"One minute he informs me that "baseball needs more superstars." The next, while discussing Albert Pujols signing with the Angels, he offers thoughtlessly, "Albert and I know each other and respect each other."...

Echoing your description:

"In other words: Harper is awesome—exactly what baseball needs. He's essentially a throwback: a cocky, ornery cuss who can back it all up. Ty Cobb minus the racism and chaw, Lenny Dykstra before the bankruptcy. He tells me Pete Rose, a.k.a. Charlie Hustle, is his favorite player and that "I want to play the game hard. I want to ram it down your throat, put you into left field when I'm going into second base."

P.S. All I'm asking is that you keep an open mind. Harper so far this year is playing really good, hard working baseball and making a tremendous difference on a first place team. He's spectacular to watch, with cannon for an arm, speed on the bases (and not afraid to use it), and a lively bat.

He could still be an arrogant a-hole, but everyone from the media, his teammates, and his coach love him and he's doing and saying all the right things.

I actually didn't read that article, although I think someone read that last part to me (which is why the Ty Cobb thing stuck out). If I had seen that, I probably would have liked Harper a little more. I have an immense amount of respect for Pete Rose and his style of baseball (and yes, I do think he should be allowed in the Hall of Fame). If I had seen Harper paying his dues to Rose, then I would be pretty okay with that.
I looked into the article I read, apparently it was back when Harper was still in high school. Originally, I was a big fan of Harper. Some high school kid comes around, crushes a ball 450 feet? How could you not like that? And I picked him up for my fantasy baseball team, so I had more reason to love him. Then he got into the minors, his ego became more and more apparent, and (this is the main part) my fantasy league fell apart so it didn't matter anymore. He's starting to turn my mind around now, and if he plays hard, keeps his nose clean, and stays humble (or at least relatively quiet), I might even start to like him.

But I think we're going about this all wrong here. This is baseball, we're not supposed to decide who we like and dislike based on reason. That's just ridiculous.

[Joran]

I have an immense amount of respect for Pete Rose and his style of baseball (and yes, I do think he should be allowed in the Hall of Fame).

But I think we're going about this all wrong here. This is baseball, we're not supposed to decide who we like and dislike based on reason. That's just ridiculous.

I've been to the Hall of Fame, it's pretty neat. Last time I was there, I should have snapped the picture because it showed the Nationals and the Orioles both in first place. It's finally happened again, although the Yankees have taken first from the really, really, surprising O's.

For Rose, he violated the cardinal rule of baseball, lied for decades about whether he bet on his own team.

The baseball Hall of Fame is different than other Hall of Fame in that it explicitly makes "character", "integrity", and "sportsmanship" as part of the criteria:

Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

[Anarion]

Lincecum had a similar struggle during the middle of last year, right? Not as long and not as bad, but it took him a little while to get back up to speed. Not sure if that's the case now, though. I'm thinking Lincecum might be one of those pitchers who comes in, has an amazing year (or couple of years), and then is a barely above average pitcher for the rest of his career. If it makes you feel any better, that might be what's happening to Kershaw too, although not quite as dramatically.
And the Dodgers are playing the Giants next week in SF! I'm trying to rustle up the cash to get to a game or two, if I remember correctly the Giant's ballpark (what are they calling it these days? Not AT&T anymore, right) can be expensive.


The weird thing with Lincecum is that his fastball velocity hasn't declined, he's still pitching in the low and sometimes even mid 90s. He did have trouble last summer with pitching out of the stretch and figured it out, but then he lost 20 pounds during the off season and I still think he hasn't properly adjusted to his body as a result. 20 pounds is a lot of weight.

Regardless though, his issue is not physical capability (which might indicate permanent decline), but rather inconsistency. It suggests either a mental problem or a bad training regime to me.

Regarding the ballpark, buy your tickets earlier if you can. I'm going to the game on the 26th with a work group and we already have ours. The stadium uses dynamic pricing, so as seats sell prices go up (this is one of the most diabolical uses computers have ever been put to).


I've been to the Hall of Fame, it's pretty neat. Last time I was there, I should have snapped the picture because it showed the Nationals and the Orioles both in first place. It's finally happened again, although the Yankees have taken first from the really, really, surprising O's.

For Rose, he violated the cardinal rule of baseball, lied for decades about whether he bet on his own team.

The baseball Hall of Fame is different than other Hall of Fame in that it explicitly makes "character", "integrity", and "sportsmanship" as part of the criteria:

Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

I've been to the hall of fame as well. It was pretty cool, I particularly liked the collection of world series rings. I also really felt the connection to a larger history, with all the politics that intertwined with baseball.

What's your opinion about hall of fame votes for all the guys that probably used steroids but that hasn't ever been proved? Asterisk yes/no? And should they get into the hall of fame anyway? It's weird to me because it seems sort of weird to keep people out just due to accusations, unlike Pete Rose who actually got found guilty. On the other hand, the accusations and the settings are such that it's extremely likely that several of the top homerun hitters used steroids.

[Riverdance]

I pay attention to baseball when the Red Sox are doing ok. I do not pay attention to baseball this year. :smallfrown:

[Scarlet Knight]

What's your opinion about hall of fame votes for all the guys that probably used steroids but that hasn't ever been proved? Asterisk yes/no? And should they get into the hall of fame anyway? It's weird to me because it seems sort of weird to keep people out just due to accusations, unlike Pete Rose who actually got found guilty. On the other hand, the accusations and the settings are such that it's extremely likely that several of the top homerun hitters used steroids.

I believe you can't catch everyone, but for the ones with reasonable evidence ( ie Bonds, Clemens, A Rod) they should not be voted in.

If in 20 years public opinion changes, let the Veterans Committee put them in.

@v Ah the beauty of generations of baseball! I am a Yankee fan, the son of a Yankee fan, the grandson of a Yankee fan, and of course, the father of a Yankee fan. The shame is I married a Met fan....

[noparlpf]

My grandfather is a Yankees fan. I've been watching parts of games with him. The other day they played a 14-inning game. It was ridiculous.

[Anarion]

I believe you can't catch everyone, but for the ones with reasonable evidence ( ie Bonds, Clemens, A Rod) they should not be voted in.

If in 20 years public opinion changes, let the Veterans Committee put them in.

@v Ah the beauty of generations of baseball! I am a Yankee fan, the son of a Yankee fan, the grandson of a Yankee fan, and of course, the father of a Yankee fan. The shame is I married a Met fan....

Bonds and Clemens aren't such easy cases because I'd say they deserved hall of fame votes before they started taking steroids. Bonds, for example, was still quite thin when he got his 500 stolen bases/500 home runs combo. So you're saying that a high likelihood (but no conclusive proof) that they took steroids is enough to disqualify them, even when their achievements were good enough to get into the hall of fame before the steroids started?

Also regarding your wife, how have you not converted her yet? The Yankees are way more interesting than the Mets.


My grandfather is a Yankees fan. I've been watching parts of games with him. The other day they played a 14-inning game. It was ridiculous.

I see nothing ridiculous about this. If they break 20 innings, that will make headlines.

[An Enemy Spy]

*sigh*. The Mariners haven't been good for a decade. It's really hard to get into baseball when you've pretty much consigned yourself to the fact that your team will always stink. Especially since the lack of a salary cap means the higher market teams will always be able to load themselves with talent.

[Scarlet Knight]

Bonds and Clemens aren't such easy cases because I'd say they deserved hall of fame votes before they started taking steroids. Bonds, for example, was still quite thin when he got his 500 stolen bases/500 home runs combo. So you're saying that a high likelihood (but no conclusive proof) that they took steroids is enough to disqualify them, even when their achievements were good enough to get into the hall of fame before the steroids started?

I view them the way I view Pete Rose; he had the numbers but was still disqualified because of his gambling after he stopped playing. Many said he should have been elected as a player. Yet, character still counts. Plus it's hard to say when they started juicing: Clemens had "roid rage " moments long before his resurgence in Toronto.


Also regarding your wife, how have you not converted her yet? The Yankees are way more interesting than the Mets.


No, her whole family is from Brooklyn and would rather give up baseball than root for the Yankees. It does make for interesting family gatherings...:smallsmile:

[An Enemy Spy]

I think most people would rather give up food than root for the Yankees. Damn Yankees...

[polity4life]

I wouldn't say I'm an avid baseball fan but I do know this:

Take the Tampa Bay Rays roster, put it in Comerica Park in Detroit (a VERY pitcher and contact-hitter friendly park), and the Tigers have the division every year and likely advances in the playoffs. This building around slow, defensively useless power hitters is for the birds.

I was laughed at for saying the defense would kill this team this year. I wouldn't say it's killing it but it has hurt it extensively. Considering the Tigers aren't scoring more than 4 runs a game on average, that defense needs to be solid. I suppose that's what you get when you invest nearly a quarter billion dollars in a morbidly obese batter who ought to play DH but can't since the team has nearly a dozen defensively worthless power hitters and must play first. Doing so moves the former third baseman-turned first baseman due to conditioning problems back to third. Neither can defend against a bunt, which has cost them games.

But I guess the prospect of home runs sells tickets and that must have been the gamble. I would have preferred money thrown at bona fide number two pitcher, forcing Scherzer and Fister into 3-4 roles. That would have given the Tigers among the best, if not the best, starting pitching rotations in the game. Some base runners and contact hitters wouldn't have hurt. Oh, and out fielders who can actually run and catch a ball.

Rant complete...:smallfurious:...:smallsigh:

[grimbold]

i have been a hardcore phillies fan since i was 7 years old
when they won in 2008 i cried

baseball used to be one of my favorite things

then i moved to europe

fortunately we just got baseball in the house due to the magic of cable tv and i will be watching as much as possible (mostly at 3 am) for the rest of the summer :D

[Joran]

But I guess the prospect of home runs sells tickets and that must have been the gamble.


I guess the Tigers forgot the middle part of Earl Weaver's philosophy: ""pitching, defense, and the three-run homer."


I believe you can't catch everyone, but for the ones with reasonable evidence ( ie Bonds, Clemens, A Rod) they should not be voted in.

If in 20 years public opinion changes, let the Veterans Committee put them in.


I agree with this. The problem comes with people that have no substantiated evidence of steroids or HGH but come with some innuendo/smoke, which is basically every power hitter of the last generation.

When Pudge Rodriguez comes up for nomination, are people going to keep him out because Jose Canseco accused him of juicing? How about Jeff Bagwell?

[Orzel]

I'm a Brooklyn born Yankees Fans.

I also club infant seals, trip old ladies, and steal baby candy. :belkar:

[grimbold]

I'm a Brooklyn born Yankees Fans.

I also club infant seals, trip old ladies, and steal baby candy. :belkar:

you would orzel you would

most of my family in New york are die hard mets fans, although some like the yankees


y'know, when the phillies lost the championship to the yankees i burned my yankees baseball cards...

[Scarlet Knight]

y'know, when the phillies lost the championship to the yankees i burned my yankees baseball cards...

Noooooo.... wait , were they pre 1970? Oh, then that's ok, newer cards are worthless today, but still ... Noooooo!

[grimbold]

Noooooo.... wait , were they pre 1970? Oh, then that's ok, newer cards are worthless today, but still ... Noooooo!

ah
i should clarify
i only burned the cards of players ON THE TEAM at the time
so no old treasures where burned

...
speaking of my baseball card collection...
i haven't gone through it in forever (mostly because its on a different continent)

i remember those days... i had over 5000 cards... i knew every stat *sniff* ahhh youth!

[Traab]

I once went to a red sox game. Got a seat right on the third base line, and regretted it when a line drive foul ball nearly tore my head from my shoulders. It left a ^%$*& DENT in the wood behind me when I managed to duck out of the way in time. (no glove, and I sure as hell wasnt going to try to catch THAT bare handed)

Honestly though, I dont much like baseball, im a football fan, baseball is just too boring for me, though its watchable when im in the stadium.

[grimbold]

I'm a Padres fan. It's a painful existence for the most part. Especially when the team is doing well and you're just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

ahh.. i hated that feeling back in the day when the phillies were cellar dwellers :smallannoyed: