I need some help evaluating how good a spell list is.

[DracoDei]

Basically I am working on a large project which I will NOT link at this time. It is so big that getting PEACH has been very hard, so I am trying to pull out the essence of one dilemma at a time and present them in separate threads to keep people from getting overwhelmed.

Getting kinda stuck and need suggestions for more spells to put on this spell-list, and also an idea of how good the spell list I am working from is.

Casting mechanics: This is important, but hard for me to translate from the project.

Easy part first: Most of these spells can NEVER be cast on yourself, and NONE of them can be cast on an unwilling target. MOSTLY these are clerical spells, but some arcane spells do sneak in.

Now for the hard parts:
Basically all spells on the list are known, and casting is spontaneous. (Wait until you see the list before you decide this is that powerful).

Assume access to new spell levels is as per the wizard.

Per day castings are technically unlimited, but come with heavy costs so assume that the per-day is also as per the wizard.

Part of said costs is that most of these with non-instantaneous durations have a duration of 1 round, swift action to cast, and swift action to extend by 1 round (especially important for the fly :smallwink:). Touch range spells may be given longer ranges to compensate.

This tends to trail off towards higher levels, and that IS a problem(and, again, one I am looking for suggesting on), but not as much as you would think since the spell effects themselves continue to grow beyond what the clerics individual spells can accomplish.

Ok, enough of my trying to describe stuff briefly without losing anything TOO important. On to the spell list:
0th
Resistance

1st
Bless (actually an effect that gives various types of bonuses to saving throws only, but is quite effective in that role)
Endure Elements (Assume the standard 24 hour duration for this one)
Expeditious Retreat (Remember, can ONLY be cast on others, and 1 round duration)
Low-Light Vision(
Remove Fear
Shield of Faith
Shield Other(THEORETICALLY this should be very powerful given it is obtained a level ahead especially since class has d12 hit-die. In actuality I think the 1 round duration and weak nature of the spell for its SRD level keeps it reasonable.)

2nd
Darkvision
Gentle Repose
Levitate
Remove Paralysis
Restoration, Lesser
See Invisibility
Status

3rd
Fly
Haste
Helping Hand
Remove Blindness/Deafness
Tongues
Water Breathing(This actually has long enough duration that it isn't a worry.)

4th
Darkvision, Mass
Restoration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/restoration.htm)
Spell Immunity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/spellImmunity.htm)

5th
Arcane Sight
Raise Dead
Spell Resistance

6th
((Yeah, started REALLY running out of good ideas here, hopefully the super-charged versions of the lower-level stuff can keep up, and people have some suggestions.))

7th
Restoration, Greater
Resurrection

8th
Spell Immunity, Greater

9th
Foresight
True Seeing(WAY late I know, but I needed a minicapstone for one of their abilities, and this is it).
True Resurrection

[Kane0]

Just as a quick question, have you considered doing half casting instead of full casting to cut down on how many spells you need to incorporate? Buffs up to 6th level spells are largely easier than up to 9th level, and theoretically it would be balanceable to speed up the spell levels which you get them if you are only providing buffs.

Also, would it be against the design to incorporate the Mass XXX spells and exclude you from the effect?

If you are looking for nice buff spells, try looking over the Pathfinder Alchemist and the Artificers Spell lists. They both have some nice ones you can pinch.

[DracoDei]

Just as a quick question, have you considered doing half casting instead of full casting to cut down on how many spells you need to incorporate? Buffs up to 6th level spells are largely easier than up to 9th level, and theoretically it would be balanceable to speed up the spell levels which you get them if you are only providing buffs.
It... doesn't actually work like that for the class. They get specific abilities and specific upgrades to those abilities at specific class levels. Spell levels are something tacked on just so you can know what the concentration DCs to cast on the defensive are and stuff like that. So, in effect, I have already done that to a certain extent.

They are supposed to be able to keep up with the cleric as far as what CLASS LEVELS they first get access to abilities to remedy a given after-battle problem and, to a lesser extent, buffs. There ARE other aspects to the class, but the abilities based around the defensive buffs were the core of the idea for the class which had been floating around in my head for years.

Some utilities (the vision stuff, and levitate+fly) felt natural for the feel of the class.

I tacked on some offensive buffs. These don't feel QUITE as natural, but they still work. They are fewer (I can only think of two, but both of them are ONLY kept in check by the action economy involved).

To put a it simply, this class isn't the wind beneath the party's wings, they are the SCRAM-jet beneath the party's wings.

For what little it matters the other part of the class is that they can keep up with a fighter (or do better?) when it comes to most AoOs (and without heavy investment in a weapon).

Also, would it be against the design to incorporate the Mass XXX spells and exclude you from the effect?
Not at all! In fact, remember when I said that the later levels were only a big problem, not a huge one? Well, getting an ability and later being able to multi-target with it at some later class level has been part of it from the start.

If you are looking for nice buff spells, try looking over the Pathfinder Alchemist and the Artificers Spell lists. They both have some nice ones you can pinch.
Huh... sounds like it should be worth a try. Are those in the PF SRD?

[Kane0]

The alchemist is indeed in the pathfider srd but the artificer is from the 3.5 eberron book

If you dont have access to that book have a look at the spell list i gave my tinkerer, it includes a handful of artificer spells.

Looks pike this class will turn out to be pretty interesting, i look forward tk seeing it!

[DracoDei]

The alchemist is indeed in the pathfider srd
Great!

but the artificer is from the 3.5 eberron book

If you dont have access to that book have a look at the spell list i gave my tinkerer, it includes a handful of artificer spells.
Nah, that I own that book (away from book for the next few weeks thought...). I just thought you meant that there was a Pathfinder version of the Artificer.


Looks like this class will turn out to be pretty interesting, i look forward tk seeing it!
Err... the rough draft has been up for a long time, I just haven't been bumping it because I got so little response the first time around that I decided that it was too out there to catch most people's interest... or at least that its radically new approach to very old concepts left them without much they could say?

But enough of such wild speculation! Have A LINK (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229090)! (I have bumped it so you can reply there. May be making a new thread for it at some point to deal with character-count issues).

[DracoDei]

Turns out I had my Eberron book with me after all. There IS something I could throw in from that but I don't know how good it would be in filling in the gaps. Basically an ability to transfer enhancements from their weapon and armor to their ally's weapons and armor in the middle of battle. Actually, I could expand that to almost any magic item. Probably temporary "over-writes" whatever is in that slot except for weapons and armor. Or maybe it SHOULD be strictly additive. In any case I don't know for sure if that would be a "high level ability" although I guess the ability to break the +10 enhancement bonus pre-epic is pretty good.

Still haven't gotten around to looking at the alchemist.