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View Full Version : Ganon v.s Shao Kahn



DarthArminius
2012-06-27, 10:16 PM
Ganondorf's armies of Gerudo, Moblins and others were cut down by the great might of Tarkatans, Centaurs, and Tarkatans, who were armed with modern weapons. Occasionally Ganon's wizzrobes would almost turn the tide of the battle against Shao Kahn's army, but alas, the magic of the wizrobes was not enough to win the day against the evil one's armed forces. Yet Shao Kahn lusted after the blood of Ganon. It was said Ganon was invincible, so Shao Kahn would test that theory with his mighty sorcery and hammer. Suddenly in Hyrule Castle, the walls easily crumbled, and the walls fell.

Ganon stood, the rest of his subjects stood ready to fight, only for Ganon to wordlessly stay them with his outstretched hand. "Fight me, Shao Kahn. Your army might be better but my sword arm and sorcery is better than yours." Shao Kahn sneared behind his skull mask. "We shall see. Hyrule and all the world of this Realm will be mine, and I will have their souls." Ganon's blank expression turned into a maniacal sneer. "Their souls belong to their betters, and not to you." The wizard Gerudo threw back his cloak and the two evil lords clashed.

OOC: Who wins? Ganon's power and abilities are spread throughout all their incarnations, so Ganon has the abilities of LoZ1, LoZ2, Link to the Past, and so on, all the way to Twilight Princess.

Abilities of Both:
As mentioned, both combatants are impressive melee and sorcery based characters. Ganon in particular can raise skeletal and zombie like minions to fight for him, has imprisoned the great Jabu Jabu of the Zora people (Or killed him, I don't remember) and travel through dimensions with ease, and Shao Kahn can absorb the souls of many enemies, fire bolts of eldritch energy, among other feats of magic.

Thinker
2012-06-28, 08:01 AM
Isn't Ganon invulnerable, thus making the point moot? Ganon wins automatically.

DarthArminius
2012-06-28, 12:36 PM
Isn't Ganon invulnerable, thus making the point moot? Ganon wins automatically.

If he was really invulnerable he wouldn't be playable in SuperSmash would he? ;)

DiscipleofBob
2012-06-28, 01:45 PM
If he was really invulnerable he wouldn't be playable in SuperSmash would he? ;)

That's Gannondorf. Before he becomes Ganon.

And when Gannondorf turns into Ganon for his Final Smash in SSBB, he IS invulnerable.

DarthArminius
2012-06-28, 01:46 PM
That's Gannondorf. Before he becomes Ganon.

And when Gannondorf turns into Ganon for his Final Smash in SSBB, he IS invulnerable.

Except to holy based weaponry. Sorcery/Soul based magic should count. :/

DiscipleofBob
2012-06-28, 01:49 PM
Except to holy based weaponry. Sorcery/Soul based magic should count. :/

Nope. Only vulnerable to the Master Sword, Silver/Light Arrows, or the Triforce.

Shao Kahn has none of these things because of instead of going through the dungeon and solving the puzzles, he just busts through the locked doors until he reaches the boss room.

Shao Kahn loses due to being completely unable to harm Ganon.

DarthArminius
2012-06-28, 01:57 PM
Nope. Only vulnerable to the Master Sword, Silver/Light Arrows, or the Triforce.

Shao Kahn has none of these things because of instead of going through the dungeon and solving the puzzles, he just busts through the locked doors until he reaches the boss room.

Shao Kahn loses due to being completely unable to harm Ganon.

I don't see why Shao Kahn's sorcery wouldn't work.

DiscipleofBob
2012-06-28, 01:59 PM
I don't see why Shao Kahn's sorcery wouldn't work.

Because it's not any of the three Hyrulian forces capable of harming Ganon.

DarthArminius
2012-06-28, 02:00 PM
Because it's not any of the three Hyrulian forces capable of harming Ganon.

And yet, Hyrule doesn't have anything related to Mortal Kombat. I could just say that Shao Kahn sucks out Ganon's soul and he has no defense against that.

The Glyphstone
2012-06-28, 02:00 PM
By versus match conventions, it should - it's considered very bad form for one side to claim invincibility/auto-win based on a Plot Coupon/MacGuffin that only exists in their specific game/universe.

Tebryn
2012-06-28, 02:02 PM
Because it's not the tri-force, the master sword of light arrows. I don't see the confusion.

DarthArminius
2012-06-28, 02:04 PM
Because it's not the tri-force, the master sword of light arrows. I don't see the confusion.

Well, it's like this, It's not the Tri-Force, Mastersword or Light arrows, that much is true. Neither is it Mortal Kombat's dark sorcery, which doesn't exist in Hyrule. It's like saying that an Atom-Bomb wouldn't work on an evil dragon because only a Magic Sword can kill it. There's a problem with that. There is no force in a Medieval world as powerful as an Atom-Bomb.

DiscipleofBob
2012-06-28, 02:13 PM
But it's not an atom bomb.

It's dark sorcery.

And there's PLENTY of dark sorcery in Hyrule, mostly Ganon has a monopoly on it.

You're talking about a guy who is an all-powerful dark sorcerer, a vicious bandit king, and a mighty warrior, basically max levels in every major class gestalted, and that's BEFORE he used the Triforce of Power to shape the world in his image and grant himself immortality, invulnerability, and unlimited power. The only reason he consistently loses is 1) lack of foresight, and 2) because the powers-that-be in Hyrule foresaw these kinds of shenanigans and have a failsafe: a destined hero that they give all the artifacts needed to confront and take down Ganon. He is all-powerful, but destined to lose to the forces of good.

Shao Kahn, on the other hand, is a guy who hosts tournaments to take over the world and gets beaten by Liu Kang and Jonny Cage. Not that I blame him. Jonny Cage is pimp. Shao Kahn is equally destined to lose to whoever makes it to the end of his little tournament.

Also, if a hypothetical dragon was only killable by a magic weapon, an atom bomb wouldn't kill it. It'd only turn it into an enraged, irradiated dragon who now breathes nuclear energy and make things very difficult for the guy who was previously able to kill it with a magic sword.

Gnomish Wanderer
2012-06-28, 07:15 PM
Ganon. He has the Triforce of Power. And I think he's a lot cooler than Shao Kahn and these are basically popularity contests. :smallsmile:

Fan
2012-06-28, 07:27 PM
But it's not an atom bomb.

It's dark sorcery.

And there's PLENTY of dark sorcery in Hyrule, mostly Ganon has a monopoly on it.

You're talking about a guy who is an all-powerful dark sorcerer, a vicious bandit king, and a mighty warrior, basically max levels in every major class gestalted, and that's BEFORE he used the Triforce of Power to shape the world in his image and grant himself immortality, invulnerability, and unlimited power. The only reason he consistently loses is 1) lack of foresight, and 2) because the powers-that-be in Hyrule foresaw these kinds of shenanigans and have a failsafe: a destined hero that they give all the artifacts needed to confront and take down Ganon. He is all-powerful, but destined to lose to the forces of good.

Shao Kahn, on the other hand, is a guy who hosts tournaments to take over the world and gets beaten by Liu Kang and Jonny Cage. Not that I blame him. Jonny Cage is pimp. Shao Kahn is equally destined to lose to whoever makes it to the end of his little tournament.

Also, if a hypothetical dragon was only killable by a magic weapon, an atom bomb wouldn't kill it. It'd only turn it into an enraged, irradiated dragon who now breathes nuclear energy and make things very difficult for the guy who was previously able to kill it with a magic sword.

Also, allow me to explain something about Plot Devices, and versus threads.

They do not go together son. It is not something that works together. Instead, we go by feats shown in game. Has Ganon proven to be immune to an attack on a scale higher than the medieval weaponry available to the Hylians?

This is not a matter of "This guy can only be beaten by a plot device.", it is a matter of we have to assume that the reasoning behind it is because there are no other sufficiently strong forces in setting for that to work.

It is a matter of the Tri Force being the strongest (planet creating as it's highest feat, along with Time Manipulation in Season of Ages.) force in the Legend of Zelda Universe, and with it fully realized Ganon was no longer within medieval means to harm without a weapon designed to kill him.

If something is stronger, than the highest feat that the Tri Force has shown, which is the fertilization and creation of life on a planetary scale (Life wiping / Creating.), then we must assume that it is stronger than the Tri Force.

However, saying that the Triforce of Power, a third of the total aspect, is as strong as the whole is also incorrect. It is the physical aspect, and Ganon has no canonical resistance to soul ****ing, so we cannot magically give it to him because he "Should" have it. The Triforce of power has never shown to make him more resistant to magical attacks, if anything, it has made them a weakness.

That is not how versus threads work. It isn't. We have to give everyone only the things that have actually been done at the highest showings of each character.

With this said, I still say Ganon wins, his strength and speed exceeds that of Shao Khan's showings which aren't even Superhuman. Johnny Cage is capable of beating him in the games. Shao Khan at best, is peak human.

Whereas Ganon is capable of reacting to arrows, and this gives him the speed edge with equalized magical strength. Still not exactly very fast, but, The Legend of Zelda isn't a very fast universe, even Link's highest showings are nothing above Peak Human.

DarthArminius
2012-06-28, 07:31 PM
With this said, I still say Ganon wins, his strength and speed exceeds that of Shao Khan's showings which aren't even Superhuman. Johnny Cage is capable of beating him in the games. Shao Khan at best, is peak human.

Whereas Ganon is capable of reacting to arrows, and this gives him the speed edge with equalized magical strength.

Shao Kahn is equally powerful if not more so than Raiden cannonically. Johnny Cage although "Peak Human" is still capable of shooting fireballs. :|
Go figure he can't find out what's happening with the Mortal Kombat Tournament because it's "Weird" and yet he can perform some magic Moojoo joo joo himself.

Fan
2012-06-28, 07:35 PM
Shao Kahn is equally powerful if not more so than Raiden cannonically. Johnny Cage although "Peak Human" is still capable of shooting fireballs. :|
Go figure he can't find out what's happening with the Mortal Kombat Tournament because it's "Weird" and yet he can perform some magic Moojoo joo joo himself.

Again, the best we can give him for speed is his jumping feat where he leaps hundreds of feet into the air, and aim dodging bullets by the feats of canonically weaker characters.

There's nothing that I would give ANY character that isn't supported consistently though due to the fractious nature of these series however.

Traab
2012-06-28, 08:48 PM
Shao Kahn, on the other hand, is a guy who hosts tournaments to take over the world and gets beaten by Liu Kang and Jonny Cage. Not that I blame him. Jonny Cage is pimp. Shao Kahn is equally destined to lose to whoever makes it to the end of his little tournament.

In the movie shao khan snapped johnny cages neck like a chicken wing. Cage went down like (insert pornographic metaphor here) Liu had to turn into a fricking dragon to stand a chance.

Fan
2012-06-28, 09:02 PM
In the movie shao khan snapped johnny cages neck like a chicken wing. Cage went down like (insert pornographic metaphor here) Liu had to turn into a fricking dragon to stand a chance.

Also Ganon can be hurt by the Big Goron's Sword.

It's hardly a thing exclusive to the master sword, just remembered this. It's not even holy weapons only can actually hurt him, so I give it to Shao Khan with Ganon's immunity to anything but holy weapons having been a sham.

Mikeavelli
2012-06-28, 10:33 PM
Shao Khan tricks Ganon into passing between realms, robbing him of his special powers. SK then beats Ganon to death.

Just like he did to Raiden (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myduYtVbM9E&feature=related)

edit: Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQaUvItVpsk&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL742C648E20ED783F). Also, the action scene. Raiden has a hammer for some reason. I'm not sure what's up with that.

While they're fighting, Shadow monks quietly murder everyone else in Hyrule who could oppose him.

DiscipleofBob
2012-06-29, 12:12 AM
Also Ganon can be hurt by the Big Goron's Sword.

It's hardly a thing exclusive to the master sword, just remembered this. It's not even holy weapons only can actually hurt him, so I give it to Shao Khan with Ganon's immunity to anything but holy weapons having been a sham.

The Big Goron's sword only worked because it and the Megaton Hammer only worked after Ganon was weakened by the Master Sword and with support from the magics of Zelda (powered by the Triforce of Wisdom.) In no version can it deliver the final blow.

Also take into account that all these efforts were done by the man with the Triforce of Courage, Link.

It's not just holy weapons, it's specific artifacts forged by the gods of Hyrule as a specific failsafe to any who would abuse the power of the Triforce.

DiscipleofBob
2012-06-29, 12:16 AM
In the movie shao khan snapped johnny cages neck like a chicken wing. Cage went down like (insert pornographic metaphor here) Liu had to turn into a fricking dragon to stand a chance.

Hm, this warrants further testing...

*goes and beats Mortal Kombat II*

Well, Johnny Cage won that round. I guess with the movie that's 1-1?

*goes and beats it again*

Johnny Cage wins again. 2-1 so far, Johnny. I guess the movie version was just kind of a fluke on Shao Kahn's part.

:smalltongue:

Forum Explorer
2012-06-29, 12:17 AM
I don't know much about Shao Kahn but lets take a look.

Ganon can fire and reflect energy blasts. He can fly indefinably. He can summon skeletal minions in battle. He is strong enough to blow up Hyrule Castle in one shot or strong enough to survive and kill the thing that did blow it up in one shot. He can create monsters (though this presumably takes time). He is a skilled sword fighter and very strong. He can turn into a giant boar that is nigh impervious to damage. He froze the entire Zora's domain, defeated Lord Jubu, cursed the Deku Tree to death, and it took the power of all seven seers to put Link on a level capable of beating him.

Shao Kahn can steal souls, turn into his opponent or anyone whose soul he has stolen, teleport, and is a skilled martial artist. Oh and throwing flaming skulls as well. There may be more but I can't remember it.


I'm pretty sure Ganon wins this.

TheSummoner
2012-06-29, 12:18 AM
Shao Khan tricks Ganon into passing between realms, robbing him of his special powers. SK then beats Ganon to death.

Just like he did to Raiden (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myduYtVbM9E&feature=related)

edit: Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQaUvItVpsk&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL742C648E20ED783F). Also, the action scene. Raiden has a hammer for some reason. I'm not sure what's up with that.

While they're fighting, Shadow monks quietly murder everyone else in Hyrule who could oppose him.

Ganon then eats him alive, given that when you're transformed into a gigantic monster, it really doesn't take many special powers to do that.


The Big Goron's sword only worked because it and the Megaton Hammer only worked after Ganon was weakened by the Master Sword and with support from the magics of Zelda (powered by the Triforce of Wisdom.) In no version can it deliver the final blow.

Also take into account that all these efforts were done by the man with the Triforce of Courage, Link.

It's not just holy weapons, it's specific artifacts forged by the gods of Hyrule as a specific failsafe to any who would abuse the power of the Triforce.

Oh, Ganon can be usually be hurt by normal weapons... It's the final blow that they can never seem to pull off. Ganon is effectively immortal... Even Link can't kill him. The best that ever happens is sealing him away. A victory yes, but never a permanant one. That's where the Master Sword comes in... The Master Sword is the only weapon that can seal Ganon. Normal blades like the Biggoron sword can harm him. Sacred weapons like the Light Arrows are super-effective against him, but only the Master Sword can seal him.

Though as Fan said, this sort of immortality should probably be ignored in a VS match. Not like Ganon needs it to win this one anyways.

The Crash Man
2012-06-29, 12:39 AM
Shao Kahn can steal souls, turn into his opponent or anyone whose soul he has stolen, teleport, and is a skilled martial artist. Oh and throwing flaming skulls as well. There may be more but I can't remember it.


I'm pretty sure Ganon wins this.

You're thinking Shang Tsung, the old man. Shao Kahn is the big armor guy with the big frakkin' hammer.

Fan
2012-06-29, 12:50 AM
I don't know much about Shao Kahn but lets take a look.

Ganon can fire and reflect energy blasts. He can fly indefinably. He can summon skeletal minions in battle. He is strong enough to blow up Hyrule Castle in one shot or strong enough to survive and kill the thing that did blow it up in one shot. He can create monsters (though this presumably takes time). He is a skilled sword fighter and very strong. He can turn into a giant boar that is nigh impervious to damage. He froze the entire Zora's domain, defeated Lord Jubu, cursed the Deku Tree to death, and it took the power of all seven seers to put Link on a level capable of beating him.

Shao Kahn can steal souls, turn into his opponent or anyone whose soul he has stolen, teleport, and is a skilled martial artist. Oh and throwing flaming skulls as well. There may be more but I can't remember it.


I'm pretty sure Ganon wins this.

The only thing that even makes this a fight is the fact that he can steal Souls.

I mean, Ganon has no resistance to that. If this comes down to an actual fight. He wins, however, if Shao Khan can get off the soul gank early, not much he can do.

Mikeavelli
2012-06-29, 12:51 AM
Ganon then eats him alive, given that when you're transformed into a gigantic monster, it really doesn't take many special powers to do that.



I would argue that turning into a gigantic monster is a special power.

TheSummoner
2012-06-29, 12:53 AM
If he's Ganon, he's already transformed.

Triscuitable
2012-06-29, 12:57 AM
Shao Kahn insults you, even after you turn him into an infant. He's a cheap boss who spams attacks, breaks blocks, and generally is just a cheap asshat.

Ganon is destined to be the standout evil of the Zelda universe, but doesn't gloat about it. He rarely insults anyone, and decides to battle Link in a fair fight.

Forum Explorer
2012-06-29, 12:58 AM
You're thinking Shang Tsung, the old man. Shao Kahn is the big armor guy with the big frakkin' hammer.

Oh. Well then I have no idea who that is.




As for the steal souls attack I would argue that Ganondorf alone has at least some resistance to that. Afterall he's pretty resistance to being sealed away which is similar as well as possessing Zelda that one time.


Is the steal soul attack ranged though? Because then there isn't anything preventing Ganondorf from just floating out of range and spamming energy balls.

Fan
2012-06-29, 01:02 AM
Oh. Well then I have no idea who that is.




As for the steal souls attack I would argue that Ganondorf alone has at least some resistance to that. Afterall he's pretty resistance to being sealed away which is similar as well as possessing Zelda that one time.


Is the steal soul attack ranged though? Because then there isn't anything preventing Ganondorf from just floating out of range and spamming energy balls.

No Energy Balls as Ganon.

INoKnowNames
2012-06-29, 01:18 AM
No Energy Balls as Ganon.

To be fair, that depends on the incarnation of Ganon used. ManBearPigGanon was completely proficient with his Magic, and his Trident, and his Fireballs. And he was still Triforce of Powerified.

Granted, he doesn't have the raw strength of GiantMonsterGanon, who... well, was a giant freaking lionpig, and all that implies.

All and all, I'd say it's an even match, but I'm pretty sure Ganon's a bit more versatile than Shao Khan is, so I'd vote for the big pig.

TheSummoner
2012-06-29, 01:18 AM
No Energy Balls as Ganon.

Though phasing in and out of holes in reality and attacking from nowhere like in Twilight Princess would be fair game.

Warping around has been one of his signature moves since the NES.

Forum Explorer
2012-06-29, 01:23 AM
No Energy Balls as Ganon.

Is their any reason he couldn't change back to Ganondorf?

Fan
2012-06-29, 01:27 AM
Is their any reason he couldn't change back to Ganondorf?

He's never shown to be able to.

But I haven't played Skyward Sword, or Twilight Princess. Ocarina's of time 3, and 2 respectively.

TheSummoner
2012-06-29, 01:30 AM
He's never shown to be able to.

But I haven't played Skyward Sword, or Twilight Princess. Ocarina's of time 3, and 2 respectively.

He has. Twilight Princess. First phase of the fight is Posessed Zelda. Second is Ganon. Third and Forth are Ganondorf (mounted and then a climactic duel)

Fan
2012-06-29, 02:47 AM
He has. Twilight Princess. First phase of the fight is Posessed Zelda. Second is Ganon. Third and Forth are Ganondorf (mounted and then a climactic duel)

Time frame of Transformations?

Because Shao Khan isn't THAT slow, and Ganon isn't that fast.

Traab
2012-06-29, 06:58 AM
For those who dont have much experience with shao khan, here are his moves.


Signature movesEdit

Light Spear: Shao Kahn crouches down to his knees and throws a large light spear at his opponent. (MKII, MK 2011)
Mystic Choke: Shao Kahn engulfs his foe in a force field and slams him/her twice in the chest. (MK:A)
Charging Spikes: Shao Kahn shoulder rams his opponent with a shadow trail following behind him, much like Johnny Cage's Shadow moves. All three games (MKII, MK3, UMK3), "Charging Spikes" had white trailing shadows and in Trilogy was replaced to green, however in N64 version, the shadows were blue. (MKII, MK3, UMK3, MKT, MK:D, MK:U, MK:SM, MK:A, MKvsDCU, MK 2011)
Wrath Hammer Attack: Shao Kahn summons his Wrath Hammer, seemingly from thin air, and smash his opponent over the head with it, setting them up for a free hit. In Deception and on, the Wrath Hammer became a weapon style and thus was no longer needed as an individual special move. (MK3, UMK3, MKT, MKvsDCU, MK 2011)
Explosive Ball: Shao Kahn fires a green star like fireball, seemingly from his mouth or eyes. (MK3, UMK3, MKT, MK:D, MK:U, MK:SM, MK:A, MKvsDCU)
Uplifting Knee: Shao Kahn performs a rising knee attack with a streak following behind him, much like Johnny Cage's Shadow moves. Between two games, "Uplifting Knee" had white shadows, but in Trilogy they were replaced by green, however in the N64 version, they were blue. (MK3, UMK3, MKT, MK:D, MK:U, MK:SM, MK:A, MK 2011)
Hammer Dance: Shao Kahn swings his hammer at an alarming rate, causing his foe to fly. He makes 9 dancing strikes and 1 final strike. (MK:SM)
Ridicule: Shao Kahn would often taunt, mock, and of course ridicule his opponents with insults, mockery, or just plain laughter. It is a trademark of Shao Kahn's and is what makes him one of the more memorable bosses in fighting game history. In Deception, performing a Ridicule could heal Shao Kahn, though only a tiny sliver of health would be recovered and could only be performed three times a match before it was automatically disabled. Same goes for Armageddon, though it can be performed eternal times in a battle, heals him once for a rate above 10%, and decreases the more it is used. (MKII, MK3, UMK3, MKT, MK:D, MK:U, MK:SM, MK:A, MK 2011)
Grab and Punch: Shao Kahn lifts his opponent up by the throat with one hand and then smash his fist into their face sending them sailing back. In Deception, this is simply his throw, and if performed next to death traps could automatically knock opponents into them. (MKT, MK:D, MK:U, MK:A, MKvsDCU)
Emperor's Shield: Shao Kahn creates an energy shield to either reverse attacks or to shatter the opponent. (MK:D, MK:U, MK:A, MKvsDCU)
Hammer Throw: Shao Kahn throws his hammer at an opponent, stunning and setting them up for a free hit. This move is only blockable with Nightwolf's Absorb, Kenshi's Blade Absorb or dodgeable with Freddy Krueger's Nightmare Stance and Jade's Shadow Flash. (MK 2011)
Shao Kahn - X-Ray Attack
WikiaBotAdded by WikiaBot
Hammer Swing: Shao Kahn uppercuts the foe with his hammer, also allowing a possible juggling combo if the move connects. (MK 2011)
Hammer Cut: Kahn sweeps the foe with his hammer. (MK 2011)
Upward Shoulder: Shao Kahn charges upwards, juggling the opponent. (MK 2011)
X-Ray Move - It's Official: Shao Kahn hammers his opponent to the ground and grabs their arm. He then stomps on their head (breaking the whole skull), lifts the opponent up by the arm, and delivers a skull-shattering headbutt. (MK 2011)

FatalitiesEdit

Headcrusher: Shao Kahn hammers his opponent into the ground leaving only their head sticking out. He then laughs before hammering his opponent into a bloody explosion. Only available in the Nintendo 64 version of the game. (MKT)
Home Run: Shao Kahn uppercuts his opponent into the air, and smashes them to pieces with his hammer as they fall. In MK 2011, he grabs the opponent by the neck and flips them in the air before delivering the killing blow. (MK:D, MK 2011)
Fore: Shao Kahn hammers his opponent into the ground and then, when they are buried up to their torso, smashes their head off with a golf swing. (MK:D)
Emperor's Bash: Shao Kahn boasts out to the crowd then pounds his opponent with his hammer several times, eventually breaking their neck. (MK:SM)
Double Down: Shao Kahn jabs his hands into the middle of his foe's torso and slowly rips their body down the middle. (MK 2011)

DiscipleofBob
2012-06-29, 08:36 AM
Time frame of Transformations?

Because Shao Khan isn't THAT slow, and Ganon isn't that fast.

I disagree. In Link to the Past, when Ganon moved, it was so fast he was a blur. At which point he'd go invisible, summon a rather difficult to dodge volley of fire bats which dealt quite the amount of damage on their own.

In that version, not even the powered up Master Sword (Master Sword tempered by Dwarven Blacksmiths and enchanted by the Great Fairy) could truly harm him, just break his invisibility spell and stun him just long enough to launch a Silver Arrow.

Twilight Princess Ganon has him charging pretty damn quick along with teleportation for devastating skirmish attacks.

And I doubt the soul steal would work. If it did, Shao Kahn wouldn't need to get physical with his normal opponents.

DarthArminius
2012-06-29, 08:38 AM
I disagree. In Link to the Past, when Ganon moved, it was so fast he was a blur. At which point he'd go invisible, summon a rather difficult to dodge volley of fire bats which dealt quite the amount of damage on their own.

In that version, not even the powered up Master Sword (Master Sword tempered by Dwarven Blacksmiths and enchanted by the Great Fairy) could truly harm him, just break his invisibility spell and stun him just long enough to launch a Silver Arrow.

Twilight Princess Ganon has him charging pretty damn quick along with teleportation for devastating skirmish attacks.

And I doubt the soul steal would work. If it did, Shao Kahn wouldn't need to get physical with his normal opponents.

Well not entirely true. It seems like in Mortal Kombat you need to break someone physically to steal their soul. If Shao Kahn could harm Ganon with his sorcery enough to whittle down his "HP" for lack of a better word, he could finish him off with a soul steal.

The Glyphstone
2012-06-29, 08:40 AM
I disagree. In Link to the Past, when Ganon moved, it was so fast he was a blur. At which point he'd go invisible, summon a rather difficult to dodge volley of fire bats which dealt quite the amount of damage on their own.

In that version, not even the powered up Master Sword (Master Sword tempered by Dwarven Blacksmiths and enchanted by the Great Fairy) could truly harm him, just break his invisibility spell and stun him just long enough to launch a Silver Arrow.

Twilight Princess Ganon has him charging pretty damn quick along with teleportation for devastating skirmish attacks.

And I doubt the soul steal would work. If it did, Shao Kahn wouldn't need to get physical with his normal opponents.

Unless he gets physical with his normal opponents because he wants to. If he was a smart villain in the first place, he wouldn't be setting up a giant martial arts tournament to compete in. Or, like Armin said, it's a "finishing move" attack.

But then, look at the movelist Traab posted. By the same logic that says Ganon can only be injured by the Master Sword/triforce/Silver Arrow, Shao Khan has a stun+damage attack that can only be avoided by "Nightwolf's Absorb, Kenshi's Blade Absorb, Freddy Krueger's Nightmare Stance or Jade's Shadow Flash". Ganon has none of these, thus Shao Khan could stunlock him forever by spamming that move.

Tiki Snakes
2012-06-29, 09:02 AM
Unless he gets physical with his normal opponents because he wants to. If he was a smart villain in the first place, he wouldn't be setting up a giant martial arts tournament to compete in. Or, like Armin said, it's a "finishing move" attack.

But then, look at the movelist Traab posted. By the same logic that says Ganon can only be injured by the Master Sword/triforce/Silver Arrow, Shao Khan has a stun+damage attack that can only be avoided by "Nightwolf's Absorb, Kenshi's Blade Absorb, Freddy Krueger's Nightmare Stance or Jade's Shadow Flash". Ganon has none of these, thus Shao Khan could stunlock him forever by spamming that move.

That's not really a comparable situation though. One is a case of needing a certain move to avoid it in game (and from a list of several unrelated ones) and another is specifically called out in the fluff and the lore of pretty much every game at some point. It's a little closer to being central to the character, basically. Magical Essence of goodness in some weaponised form is almost always required, be it the Master Sword, light arrows or more often some combination of the above.

Conversely, soul sucking finishing move stuff may in theory be enough to finally finish off Ganon once and for all, given that everything shy of that they've tried in the games has been temporary at best. So it seems to me that if Shao Kahn could get Ganon in a finish-him-already-beaten style state then it could very well be a fight with some kind of real finality.

INoKnowNames
2012-06-29, 10:33 AM
I honestly don't remember in which game it says Shao Khan has the ability to devower souls. It says he can on the Wiki, but it isn't specific about it.

I would agree that such an ability would be the type of thing that could permanently slay someone, and Ganondorf is definitely the kind of being that would require such a finishing move.

Which incarnation of Ganon are we using again? Man-Bear-Pig Ganon? Or Ganondorf / Beast Ganon? The abilities each hold are more than seperate enough that picking one or the other would be valid, since it would decide exactly how he fights.

Thinking about it, if it's Man-Bear-Pig Ganon, then I'd have to go with him. But Ganondorf / Beast Ganon? I'd sooner rule in favor of Shao Khan. The former is far more varied in his assaults, and significantly more powerful in a fight. Ganondorf / Beast Ganon is a bit more restricted in what he can do in each form, while sharing similar weaknesses, making him easier to contain.

Although Onaga would be the clear winner, hands down.

DarthArminius
2012-06-29, 12:35 PM
I honestly don't remember in which game it says Shao Khan has the ability to devower souls. It says he can on the Wiki, but it isn't specific about it.

I would agree that such an ability would be the type of thing that could permanently slay someone, and Ganondorf is definitely the kind of being that would require such a finishing move.

Which incarnation of Ganon are we using again? Man-Bear-Pig Ganon? Or Ganondorf / Beast Ganon? The abilities each hold are more than seperate enough that picking one or the other would be valid, since it would decide exactly how he fights.

Thinking about it, if it's Man-Bear-Pig Ganon, then I'd have to go with him. But Ganondorf / Beast Ganon? I'd sooner rule in favor of Shao Khan. The former is far more varied in his assaults, and significantly more powerful in a fight. Ganondorf / Beast Ganon is a bit more restricted in what he can do in each form, while sharing similar weaknesses, making him easier to contain.

Although Onaga would be the clear winner, hands down.

Ganon has variable abilities based on all past incarnations. It is possible this makes him over-powered, I suppose.

Fan
2012-06-29, 02:33 PM
I disagree. In Link to the Past, when Ganon moved, it was so fast he was a blur. At which point he'd go invisible, summon a rather difficult to dodge volley of fire bats which dealt quite the amount of damage on their own.

In that version, not even the powered up Master Sword (Master Sword tempered by Dwarven Blacksmiths and enchanted by the Great Fairy) could truly harm him, just break his invisibility spell and stun him just long enough to launch a Silver Arrow.

Twilight Princess Ganon has him charging pretty damn quick along with teleportation for devastating skirmish attacks.

And I doubt the soul steal would work. If it did, Shao Kahn wouldn't need to get physical with his normal opponents.

That's not that fast, Faster than Eye movement is possessed by both Opponents. When we're discussing video game characters, legend of zelda is actually VERY VERY slow, they never so much as display Super Sonic movements. Helicopter blades are faster than eye, as are many other subsonic things in real life.

However, given Ganon, that isn't speed. That's an invisibility spell.

Again, we aren't talking sonic booms, or anything even remotely resembling mach speeds.

DiscipleofBob
2012-06-29, 03:32 PM
That's not that fast, Faster than Eye movement is possessed by both Opponents. When we're discussing video game characters, legend of zelda is actually VERY VERY slow, they never so much as display Super Sonic movements. Helicopter blades are faster than eye, as are many other subsonic things in real life.

However, given Ganon, that isn't speed. That's an invisibility spell.

Again, we aren't talking sonic booms, or anything even remotely resembling mach speeds.

So... when does Shao Kahn move so blindingly fast? Every time I've seen him he telegraphs his attacks in very much so NOT faster than the eye.

Also, the soul-stealing argument really doesn't work. It's like taking a knife and fork to go confront Cthulu and say, "You know, I might not be able to beat you in a straight up fight, but I bet you'd go good with tartar sauce."

Fan
2012-06-29, 05:46 PM
So... when does Shao Kahn move so blindingly fast? Every time I've seen him he telegraphs his attacks in very much so NOT faster than the eye.

Also, the soul-stealing argument really doesn't work. It's like taking a knife and fork to go confront Cthulu and say, "You know, I might not be able to beat you in a straight up fight, but I bet you'd go good with tartar sauce."

Mortal Kombat Movies, and in game cinematics.

Specifically the aforementioned Johnny Cage who was fast enough to make after images (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7HB0CSBux0&feature=related).

Shao Khan is routinely faster than teleporters, and people who replicate Faster than Eye Movement.

Forum Explorer
2012-06-29, 06:04 PM
That's not that fast, Faster than Eye movement is possessed by both Opponents. When we're discussing video game characters, legend of zelda is actually VERY VERY slow, they never so much as display Super Sonic movements. Helicopter blades are faster than eye, as are many other subsonic things in real life.

However, given Ganon, that isn't speed. That's an invisibility spell.

Again, we aren't talking sonic booms, or anything even remotely resembling mach speeds.

Yes how dare they move at a reasonable normal speed. :smalltongue:

Though if it's an invisibility spell then that's even better for Ganon.

The transformation speeds are pretty much unknown. The best we could say is under a minute.

Fan
2012-06-29, 06:52 PM
Yes how dare they move at a reasonable normal speed. :smalltongue:

Though if it's an invisibility spell then that's even better for Ganon.

The transformation speeds are pretty much unknown. The best we could say is under a minute.

Shao Khan is a prominent Sorceror himself. Illusions are hardly beyond his grasp.

After all, he did take on, and defeat Shang Tsung, and Quan Chi, albeit not at the same time, but neither are exactly slouches in magic.

I also believe he had planar level ability to soul ****, and when not limited by the rules of Mortal Kombat he was stated to be able to absorb 90% of Earth realms Souls within the span of moments. He doesn't do this, because he needs to complete his conquest of Earth Realm fairly through Mortal Kombat in order for the Elder Gods to accept his claim, and not attack him before he is ready.

I also remembered that he has survived being struck by lightning multiple times, and has regenerated from the billions of volts that came from Raiden, and has the reaction time to react to his lightning based attacks.

He's not exactly struggling here, what I think the problem here is, that both of their durability puts them at Large Building / Castle level, however going by the Blitz feat Ganon has where his movements are faster than eye, that puts him solidly above Khan Speed wise.

Going by all feats presented, this would be a rough fight for either of them, and it mostly depends on whether or not Khan can get off his soul steal fast enough.