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Darth_Versity
2012-06-28, 04:38 PM
So a while back I posted about a PrC I had made way back when (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200292) and got some feedback and went back to make some ammendments. Then work got in the way, and family, and assasins creed, so I put it on hold. But now I'm making the adjustments.

So without Further ado


Dragon Rider of Bahamut/Tiamut

BAB: High
Good Saves: Fort and Will
Hit Die: d10

1. Dragon Mount, Dragon Riding
2. Draconic immunities (Frightful Presence)
3. Draconic Renown +1
4. Improved Mounted Combat +1
5. Draconic Immunities (sleep), Deadly Charge
6. Draconic Renown +2
7. One Mind
8. Draconic Immunities (Paralysis), Improved Mounted Combat +2
9. Draconic Renown +3
10. Loyalty Beyond Death

Requirements

To qualify to become a Dragon -rider a character must fulfill all the following criteria:
Base Attack Bonus: +7
Skills: Handle Animal 4 Ranks, Ride 6 Ranks
Feats: Mounted Combat and Skill Focus (Ride)
Spells or Martial Maneuvers: Must be able to cast 3rd-level divine spells or have a 3rd-level martial maneuver from the Devoted Spirit or White Raven disciplines.
Language: Draconic
Special: Must worship either Bahamut or Tiamut and have a good or evil alignment respectively


Class Skills

A Dragonriderís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Concentration (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Jump (Str), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), and Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points 4+Int modifier

Class Features

Weapon Proficiencies: A Dragon Rider gains proficiency with the lance, longspear, short bow, and all simple weapons. Dragonriders are proficient with light, medium, and heavy armor and with shields.

Dragon Mount (Ex): At first level a Dragonrider's god grants him a loyal dragon as his mount which must be selected from table 3-2 and must be good aligned if he worships Bahamut and evil aligned if he worships Tiamut. The only exceptions to this rule are the Dragonnel and Wyvern which may be chosen by any Dragonrider.
You must perform a special ritual to bond with your new mount that takes 1 week and 1,000 gp per ECL of the dragon (the gp cost is not required for the first mount you recieve). After you have bonded with the mount it gains special benefits depending on your character level a shown on table 3-3.
You may dismiss your mount at any time and gain a new one in its place. The previous mount loses all benefits of from this class and the new mount gains them.
If ever your mount dies you cannot gain another for 30 days or until you gain a character level, whichever comes first.
NOTE: Please use the old forum post to view the mounts abilities found here http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200292

Dragonriding (Ex): A dragonrider may add his class level as a bonus to any Ride checks made while riding his Dragon Mount.

Spellcasting or Maneuvers: A Dragon Rider may advance in spellcasting or martial maneuvers depending on which entry requirement you met to enter the class. If you were able to meet both requirements you must decide which path to advance.
If you advance spells, at each even-numbered Dragonrider level, you gain new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if you had also gained a level in a divine spellcasting class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of turning or destroying undead, metamagic or item creation feats, and so on). If you had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a Dragonrider, you must decide to which class to add each Dragonrider level for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known.
If you advance maneuvers, at each odd-numbered level, you gain a new maneuver known from the Devoted Spirit, Diamond Mind or White Raven disciplines. You must meet a maneuverís prerequisite to learn it. At every even numbered level you can choose to learn a new maneuver in place of one you already know from the three schools open to you. In effect, you lose the old maneuver in exchange for the new one. You can choose a new maneuver of any level you like, as long as you observe your restriction on the highest-level maneuvers you know; you need not replace the old maneuver with a maneuver of the same level. You add your full Dragon Rider levels to your initiator level to determine your total initiator level and your highest-level maneuvers known. At 3rd level, 6th level, and 9th level, you gain an additional maneuver readied per day. At 5th and 10th level you learn a new stance from the schools available to you.

Draconic Immunity (Su): At 2nd level, a dragonrider is immune to the frightful presence of dragons. At 5th level he also gains immunity to sleep, and at 8th he gains immunity to Paralysis. These immunities only remain while he is able to share an emphatic link to his dragon.

Draconic Renown (Ex): At 3rd level a Dragonrider may treat his character level as 1 higher when determining the abilities of his Draconic Mount and what mounts are available to him. For example, a Fighter 8/Dragonrider of Bahamut 3 has a character level of 11, but may treat his character level as 12 when determining what mounts are available and how strong his mount is.
At 6th level he may treat his character level as 2 higher and at 9th he may treat it as 3 higher.

Improved Mounted Combat (Ex): At 4th, and 8th level, a Dragon Rider increases by one the number of Ride checks he may attempt each round to negate a hit against his Dragon Mount (two times per round at 4th, and three times per round at 8th). The hit is negated if the Dragon Riderís Ride check result is greater than the attack roll.

Deadly Charge (Ex): At 4th level, a Dragon Rider deals an extra 2d6 points of damage on a successful attack made during a charge while riding his Dragon Mount.

One Mind (Su): At 7th level a Dragon Rider and his Dragon Mount may aid each other in their mental defence. If one of them is subjected to a Will saving throw that the other is not and fails the other may immediately attempt a second save at the same DC to replace the first save result. If the second save fails then both the Dragon Rider and Dragon Mount are effected even if one of them would normally be an invalid target. This ability only remains while the Dragon Rider and Dragon Mount share an emphatic link.
Example: The Dragon Rider has Hold Person cast on him by an enemy wizard. He fails his saving throw and is effected by the spell. His Dragon Mount decides to attempt a save using its Saving Throw bonus. If it succeeds the Dragon Rider is no longer effected by the spell, if it fails it would now be effected even though Dragons would not normally be subject to a Hold Person spell.

Loyalty Beyond Death (Su): Your Dragon Mount can no longer be permanently killed so long as you survive. If ever your mount dies in battle it returns the next day at dawn with full hit points so long as you are still alive.
If you are both killed and you are returned to life (such as from a raise dead spell) your mount will also return with you at no extra cost (this may require you to remove some of your dragons abilities if you incur any level loss)


Ex-Dragon Riders

A Dragonrider who ceases to be Good/Evil or no longer worships Bahamut/Tiamut respectively loses all class abilities including their special mount but not armor or weapon proficiencies and may no longer advance as a Dragonrider until they properly atone (see the atonement spell, PHB page 201).
In extreme cases a dragon may turn on the rider if the rider grossly violates the faith of their god.



So in response to the comments I recieved last time I have altered the requirements to include either divine spells or maneuvers. It leaves the class open to either divine casters or Crusaders/Warblades. Others could take it but they are the most likely candidates.

Due to the dual requirement I placed an option to make it either a divine class or a tome of battle class. This gives a flexibilty that can be handy without being overly confusing.

I removed some abilities such as the bonus feats that added little to the class and replaced them with the Improved Mounted Combat from the Aglarondian Griffonrider (UE), and I added the Deadly charge from Skylord(BoED), but i'm not sure the latter fits. It does work well with White Raven but little else.

Considering both Spells and Martial Manuevers require a standard action (mostly), Full Mounted Attack just felt like a pointless ability being tacked on, so I removed it for One Mind, a way to show the strong link between Dragon and Rider. I'm not sure if One Mind is too much, i cant decide without more input.

The choice of Martial Disciplines was pretty strait forward. The class emphasises team work between rider and mount so White Raven fits, and being a divine class makes perfect sense for Devoted Spirit. Diamond Mind show the strengthening of the mind from the link between rider and mount. It also gives a new Discipline regardless of whether you entered with Crusader or Warblade.

I'd love some feedback as I still have adjustments to make and all critisism will be taken on board.

Zaydos
2012-06-28, 08:46 PM
I like, though I must say I am a tad upset that the class lets you get mounts as if you were 23rd level by 20th level there are no mounts listed that require levels 21+.

Do have some problems with the maneuver progression. Currently you're getting new maneuvers at the same rate as a warblade, more maneuvers readied, and more stances compared to a single class warblade. In effect you're trading Stance Mastery (which is good), 2 bonus feats, Int to opposed checks and Attacks of Opportunity for: +2 to Fort, +4 to Will, +1 maneuver readied, +1 stance known, +10 to ride checks when they matter (when you're riding your mount of choice), a draconic mount, and a second Will save against effects. You might want to do like most ToB PrCs and remove the option of swapping maneuvers on levels you don't get new ones at least; even though I really think that's a neat idea in this case it might not be for the best. One could argue that your maneuver selection is more limited but you gain Devoted Spirit which is awesome and keep Diamond Mind which is awesome. While losing Iron Heart is sad gaining Devoted Spirit makes up for it.

The comparison to Crusader is even more in the PrC's favor (you get 2 more maneuvers readied and can actually pick up a Lv 8 stance). You do lose Mettle but still have to say you probably want to drop the option to exchange maneuvers.

Darth_Versity
2012-06-29, 06:08 PM
I like, though I must say I am a tad upset that the class lets you get mounts as if you were 23rd level by 20th level there are no mounts listed that require levels 21+.

Do have some problems with the maneuver progression. Currently you're getting new maneuvers at the same rate as a warblade, more maneuvers readied, and more stances compared to a single class warblade. In effect you're trading Stance Mastery (which is good), 2 bonus feats, Int to opposed checks and Attacks of Opportunity for: +2 to Fort, +4 to Will, +1 maneuver readied, +1 stance known, +10 to ride checks when they matter (when you're riding your mount of choice), a draconic mount, and a second Will save against effects. You might want to do like most ToB PrCs and remove the option of swapping maneuvers on levels you don't get new ones at least; even though I really think that's a neat idea in this case it might not be for the best. One could argue that your maneuver selection is more limited but you gain Devoted Spirit which is awesome and keep Diamond Mind which is awesome. While losing Iron Heart is sad gaining Devoted Spirit makes up for it.

The comparison to Crusader is even more in the PrC's favor (you get 2 more maneuvers readied and can actually pick up a Lv 8 stance). You do lose Mettle but still have to say you probably want to drop the option to exchange maneuvers.

The mounts past lvl 20 are a difficult one as I was using the ECL to establish which dragons were acceptable and the monster manual doesn't give the LA of creatures above ECL 20.

The manuever progression was more of guess work and what felt right than any real judgement. Do you have a suggestion for a better progression? I agree about retraining manuevers as thats something none of the other Martial adept PrCs offer, but thats something that always irked me about them.

I think the rate of manuevers known is fine, but maybe lowering the readied and stances.

As for what schools are available, I like the selection currently. Both Warblade and Crusader gain access to a good school while keeping other good ones. Not a huge selection, but all good options.

Im not sure about the Draconic Immunities. I think they come to slow, but getting them all at 2nd level is to strong. What do you think?

Zaydos
2012-06-29, 07:10 PM
The ECL calculations for dragons tend to be predictable for ECL 21 and 22, because their LA pretty much always increases by increments of 1 or 0 in any given age category, but I'll readily admit its a fair reason not to.

Lowering the rate of maneuvers readied would work too, and I agree the lack of retraining maneuvers always bothered me till looking this over and realizing what the ramifications of letting them retrain (since your progression is pretty bog standard for martial initating PrCs).

I like the selection as well, but was just noting they got what I've seen called the best ones and better progression of maneuvers which is probably not the best combination. Mostly I was noting it as a supporting factor for why their maneuver gain should be slowed.

Give them a bonus to saves versus Sleep and Paralysis at Lv 2 immunity to both at Lv 5 and some new ability at Lv 8 maybe?