New Magic Item: Materia [D&D 3.5]

[Ziegander]

So, this is something I've wanted for a long time now. Orbs of condensed magic that players can equip to themselves for a variety of active and/or passive spell effects. Wands for the everyman! But how the heck would such things work? How should they be priced?

In FF7, everybody had MP, or Magic Points, and anybody could use any materia. Materia granted access to spell knowledge and leveled up with their owners.

In D&D... I'm not sure that any of that can be well-preserved, at least not using the core rules. Perhaps with a special campaign setting it could be made to work. I also want a set of generic materia rules that work with D&D's spells, not the spells in the video game.

My thoughts so far:


They work sort of like Staffs, except that they are not a charged item, rather any spells they allow their bearer to cast can only be cast by the bearer spending their own MP.
Rather than coming pre-loaded with several spell options, materia increase in power and develop new traits/options alongside their bearer.
Materia do not possess power relative to the power of their bearer, but rather unlock power as their bearer gains XP.
The GP cost of materia rises with the materia's power level.
Materia only gain levels when their bearer gains levels (for all intents and purposes all materia possessed by their bearer gain XP at the same rate and in the same quantities as their bearer and gain levels at the same intervals in XP as player characters).


For example, a level 1 Fire materia might enable its bearer to cast a CL 1 Burning Hands spell by spending 1 MP. A level 5 Fire materia might allow its bearer to cast a CL 5 Burning Hands for 5 MP or a CL 5 Fireball for 5 MP. A level 7 Fire materia might allow its bearer to cast a CL 7 Fireball for 7 MP or a CL 7 Wall of Fire for 7 MP.

SO. Materia cost would have to vary based on level, but also by minute amounts based on exactly how much XP the materia has. A materia with 0 XP is level 1, but it remains level 1 up to the point that it gains 1000 XP. An XP to gold ratio should then be devised, even it isn't often used.

MP would then be doled out based on class. Each class would be given a "Magic Die," the spiritual mirror to "Hit Die" which determines their Magic Points (or MP) per level. Like the Hit Die, a character's Magic Die is modified by some ability modifier to determine the maximum amount of MP gained each level.

My first thought was, "abolish the Sorcerer class, give the Wizard a d12 MD, and MP per level are modified by Charisma," but then my next thought was, "keep the Sorcerer, everyone needs Constitution, so MP per level are modified by Constitution." Honestly... I think I prefer the first solution.

I think the only remaining questions are:


Do the casting classes still get their own spells and materia is just a new option?
Do I make entirely new classes, of which none are capable of casting spells without the aid of materia?
How exactly should the pricing for materia work?


I am thinking the preferred answers to the first two questions are, "no, no one innately casts spells," and "yes, all new classes." In this way, I can use Charisma as the "magic stat" without feeling bad about giving someone like the Sorcerer too much power.

The pricing question is a tough one. I feel like I should price level 1 materia with 0 XP cheaply enough that characters can use their starting gold to buy 1 or 2, but costs should start to go up pretty fast from there, I would think. They should be cheaper than wands of equal caster level, probably, but not by much. Thoughts on pricing?

[Craft (Cheese)]

Note: I've never played FF7. If you're going for a precise simulation of how things work in that game, feel free to ignore my advice.

You know, if you have a materia system why have classes at all? You could define characters solely by what materia they have.

Anyway, here's an alternate system for material advancement that obviously jumped out at me when I read your post: Players start with 2 first-level Materia at level 1. Each even level afterward, they get a new first-level Materia. At each level, they choose two materia to level up with them (after getting their new materia if it's an even level). You can level up the same materia twice, but none of your materia can be of higher level than you.

[blackwind1kaze]

Well if you are going to try to do a D20 (3.5) FF7 version, here is one that people have created free for others.

http://www.4shared.com/office/DX58UwMw/Final_Fantasy_VII_-_D20.htm

[zorenathres]

there are a few FF7 d20/ 3.5 free RPG's, which i used to adapt my own materia system... the one listed above is one of them

materia start @ level 1, are usable once per day (i didn't like keeping track of MP) & contain 1 spell. as the materia goes up in level, you gain more uses per day, & increased damage. most green materia only grow to lv-4, then divide giving you a new one.

generally, i require a feat to use materia (like materia mastery: green or yellow...), casters can add their CL when using materia, & non-casters can take feats that raise their effective caster level when using materia.

i would keep the materia separate from any classes, spellcasters can augment their spell repertoire while non-casters can gain some added utility.

i would say its a bad idea to make a materia dependent class (but that really depends how common materia are in your setting, in FF7 you could buy materia in any town, in other settings likely not so common...)

as for pricing, i would look at wondrous items with the same effects (usable X times/ day items)? scrolls seem too cheap since it recharges each day.

[Ziegander]

In the interest of being more generic, I guess the alternate classes and MP rules should stay articles of a new campaign setting, whereas more "default" rules should be devised to make Materia more widely accessible by the D&D community at large.

So. How about this: Charisma is still the dependent stat, making Sorcerers and their ilk the best at commanding Materia. However, in order to cast the spells obtained from Materia, a character must expend their own spell slots.

The twist: Non-casters gain a number of "effective spell slots" with which they can cast spells via materia equal to the number of bonus spells a caster would get based on their Charisma score. A Fighter with Charisma 14 would be able to cast a single 1st level Materia spell and a single 2nd level Materia spell per day.

Okay... I'm starting to get a more concrete idea in my head of how I should write the rules for these and how I should price them...

Basically, a Materia can come in one of two flavors and broken down from there in one of three grades. The two flavors are Descriptor and School, and the three grades are Low, Medium, and High.

So, for example, a Low Grade Fire Materia, can have any three [Fire] descriptor spells, one that's 1st level, one that's 2nd level, and one that's 3rd level. Low Grade Descriptor Materia are the cheapest Materia on the market (starting at 50gp for a 0xp Materia).

A High Grade Transmutation Materia can have any nine Transmutation spells, one for each spell level, and is among the most expensive Materia on the market.

Low Grade Materia are "mastered" at 7th level, which grants their wielder a bonus "materia spell slot" for each spell offered by the materia, and also produces a new Low Grade Materia of the same type at 1st level and with 0xp.

Medium are mastered at 13th level, granting the bonus slots, and producing a new Medium materia.

High are mastered at 19th level, granting the bonus slots, and producing a new High materia.

However, it isn't as if Materia can simply be commissioned to have whatever spells on them the player wants. Materia are a poorly understood, rare, natural phenomena, and as such, it is impossible to artificially or commercially produce them, and just as impossible to "program" a materia with any pre-set spell selection.

Will write more as the thoughts come to me... stay tuned!

[zorenathres]

if you plan on having more than one spell per materia, i would recommend making any additional spells beyond the lowest/ weakest one within the stone to be locked until the materia gains a level/ levels.

materia that has unlocked abilities, & less often, mastered should command top dollar versus their lesser counterparts.

[Ziegander]

if you plan on having more than one spell per materia, i would recommend making any additional spells beyond the lowest/ weakest one within the stone to be locked until the materia gains a level/ levels.

Oh, of course. That's how it works in FF7, and that's how I'd want it to work in D&D.


materia that has unlocked abilities, & less often, mastered should command top dollar versus their lesser counterparts.

Unlocking a 9th level spell from a materia requires 17 character levels of experience. It is no small feat and would fetch a very high price tag at auction.

[NichG]

My advice would be, don't try to tack this on to existing D&D. It'll either be overshadowed by what a base D&D caster can do, or much more important to the point of making the base D&D classes irrelevant.

I like the idea that these things are both items (so must be acquired/found), and that they gain XP as the user does. My concern there is that 3ed's XP progression is insufficiently nonlinear to make it worth picking up a new materia once you're at a certain level, because it will never ever catch up to your other ones. The system uses variable XP rewards based on your level to solve that for PCs, but that wouldn't really make sense for materia since you're always going to be starting with a Lv1 materia and the XP reward given to a Lv1 character for a CR 15 encounter is undefined (or more specifically, its listed as a somewhat snarky "zero, cause they must've won via plot").

Maybe Materia get MXP equal to the level of the character equipping them for every 5xp that character earns, minimum 1 to 1? So a Lv20 character would advance a Lv1 Materia to Lv2 after earning only 250xp, not 1000xp, and could advance a Lv1 Materia up to about Lv13 by the time they themselves hit Lv21 (which means they could learn a single new 7th level spell that level for every materia they can simultaneously equip, basically).

[Ziegander]

The system uses variable XP rewards based on your level to solve that for PCs, but that wouldn't really make sense for materia since you're always going to be starting with a Lv1 materia and the XP reward given to a Lv1 character for a CR 15 encounter is undefined (or more specifically, its listed as a somewhat snarky "zero, cause they must've won via plot").

But the bolded part, that's not true at all. Higher level materia would be able to be found naturally, or as treasure, or could be bought at shops.

A normal caster can pick up some materia to add spells to their repertoire that they would normally pass, while non-caster classes can add spellcasting to their routines by purchasing one or more materia. It's win/win.

[zorenathres]

i would highly recommend limiting a single spell to each green materia that grows stronger (1d4/ 1d6/ 1d8... & more uses per day) as it gains levels (with exceptions being powerful/ rare materia & ones like enemy skill), from personal playtesting experience, keeping track of materia will become a major pain (for both you & your players) if you have too many extra abilities.

[Rainbownaga]

Some questions that I see

-If casters use their own slots, and non-casters use their bonus spell slots, what happens with paladins: do they lose spell slots when they hit level 4?

-What happens if a level 1 sorcerer picks up a low grade materia. Can they start casting level 3 spells strait off using their charisma bonus or must they wait until they have actual spell slots. Does this mean a single level dip in a casting class effectively destroys a character's ability to use materia?

-Do you get the extra slots from a master materia even if you wouldn't normally have any at that level? (e.g. could a level 1, 8 charisma commoner use a master materia to cast meteor swarm)

-how many materia can a person equip at any one time? In ff7 they were limited by weapon and armor slots, but i don't think that system makes sense in d&d. A sorcerer with half a dozen materia has more than doubled his effective spells known and can get extra slots with master materia

-What does happen if a level 10 character wants to level a level 1 materia?

-Is there any downside to equipping materia that you can't use? You get an effective income stream and get some nice bonuses when it hits master.

[Ziegander]

-If casters use their own slots, and non-casters use their bonus spell slots, what happens with paladins: do they lose spell slots when they hit level 4?

Hmm, yes, an awkward issue. I'll think about it. I'm leaning toward, "no."


-What happens if a level 1 sorcerer picks up a low grade materia. Can they start casting level 3 spells strait off using their charisma bonus or must they wait until they have actual spell slots. Does this mean a single level dip in a casting class effectively destroys a character's ability to use materia?

Characters must wait until the appropriate character level to be able to cast higher level spells using materia. So, no, a 1st level Sorcerer can't cast a 3rd level spell from a low-grade materia (1st, because the materia wouldn't have been unlocked yet; 2nd, because he isn't high enough level).


-Do you get the extra slots from a master materia even if you wouldn't normally have any at that level? (e.g. could a level 1, 8 charisma commoner use a master materia to cast meteor swarm)

An interesting question. Initially, I will answer no, but a Master Fire materia is going to cost a fortune making such a thing cost-prohibitive to low and mid level characters.


-how many materia can a person equip at any one time? In ff7 they were limited by weapon and armor slots, but i don't think that system makes sense in d&d. A sorcerer with half a dozen materia has more than doubled his effective spells known and can get extra slots with master materia

Not sure yet. Once I've worked out the rules for how exactly materia work, I'll work out rules for how exactly they are equipped.


-What does happen if a level 10 character wants to level a level 1 materia?

Materia gain the same amount of XP as the character does, so the materia will actually level up fairly quickly if the 10th level character is overcoming level appropriate challenges.


-Is there any downside to equipping materia that you can't use? You get an effective income stream and get some nice bonuses when it hits master.

You mean equipping materia that you don't have the Cha score to cast spells from? Ostensibly no, other than the cash investment, but then that's not going to be a whole lot for a materia with 0xp.

Perhaps a good rule to introduce would be that, without a high enough Charisma modifier your equipped materia stop gaining XP. For example, a low-grade materia is mastered at 7th level; with a Charisma modifier of +3, you can get your 3rd level spell from it at 5th level, but unless you have a modifier of +4 or higher, it stops gaining XP at that point, and cannot be mastered.