Uruk-hai post-war of the ring

[pendell]

Ever wonder what the orcs did after the ring went in the fire?

wonder no more (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=415205408532248&set=a.294841700568620.90719.294830300569760&type=1&ref=nf) .

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Pokonic]

They retreated up into the hills and below the earth. Trolls did the same. Without a real leader, most where hunted down in the years after the big red eye in the sky's demise.

[dehro]

they morphed into internet-trolls. a surprising number of them exist to this day.

[Kato]

they morphed into internet-trolls. a surprising number of them exist to this day.

How does a half-orc turn into a troll? Shouldn't we call them orcs than?


On a serious note... didn't they all vanish along with the orcs?

[Closet_Skeleton]

The Olog Hai (the super trolls who don't die in sunlight like the ones from the Hobbit, so all of the ones in the movies except probably for the Cave Troll who just got hit by a tiny beam of sunlight) all became mindless and passive when Sauron died, while the regular trolls just became less of a threat. Uruk Hai may also have suffered worse effects than regular orcs, since the special thing about them was also a greater ability to act under sunlight. But probably not since they were created by Saruman so unlike the Olog Hai they didn't have a direct link to Sauron.

BTW, 'uruk' is just 'orc' in the black tongue and 'Olog' is 'troll'. 'Hai' either just means 'super' or 'sunblock lotion', I don't know elvish.


How does a half-orc turn into a troll? Shouldn't we call them orcs than?

Uruk Hai aren't half-orcs. They were a crossbreed of various kinds of orc, some of which may have been part human. So they're more than 50% orc and possibly 100% orc.

[hamishspence]

"Big orcs unafraid of sunlight" first appeared in the armies of Sauron. Some 500-odd years before the events of LoTR, in an attack on Osgiliath.

Saruman may have refined them further though.

"half-orcs" first appear in Saruman's armies.

"Hai" just means "people".

[Bulldog Psion]

One detail that always amuses me somewhat is that the modern orc, so to speak, has ballooned into a monstrous ogre-like being. Half orcs in 3rd edition D&D were conceived of as having arms as thick as a human torso, if you take a look at the pictures, meaning they'd probably be about as strong as 6 or 7 athletic humans each.

However, in the LotR, the smaller breeds of orc were small enough for Frodo and Sam to hide among them, and the Uruk-Hai were "almost man-sized".

The scenes in the book where people fight off larger numbers of orcs make a lot more sense if they're smaller than humans -- quite a bit -- and thus not as strong, though still dangerous and nasty.

It always amuses me that with the ogre-like D&D and WoW orcs, the humans would have needed weight of numbers to be a credible threat in the books to win, and not the other way around. :smallbiggrin:

"Theoden King! Theoden King -- there are 200 orcs approaching the gates!"

"Verily, our woe is great -- yet, all 10,000 of us shall die like true men of the Mark, with blade in hand and shield on arm!"

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Somehow, all of the posters have totally overlooked the OP. :smallbiggrin:

[Pokonic]

Somehow, all of the posters have totally overlooked the OP. :smallbiggrin:

It gives a "content unavalible" thing. That's why.

[grimbold]

They retreated up into the hills and below the earth. Trolls did the same. Without a real leader, most where hunted down in the years after the big red eye in the sky's demise.

thats what i always believed :smallconfused:

[Killer Angel]

It gives a "content unavalible" thing. That's why.
Indeed


they morphed into internet-trolls. a surprising number of them exist to this day.

Nah... they became sacks of xps for adventurers.

[MLai]

Did Sauron actually exist as a big red lighthouse? My memory of the books is fuzzy. Somehow I can't imagine Tolkien being so cheesy. The eye should be mostly a metaphorical imagery, or a vision you'd see only when Sauron directly mind-links you.

Anyways, didn't all the Orcs literally fade away, like magical creatures? Not instantly, but they ran away and gradually just disappeared or died off?

[Aotrs Commander]

It (as the link works for me, for some reason) was this:https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/577192_415205408532248_2022710873_n.jpg

pendell, just for reference, so ignore me if I'm teaching you to suck eggs; 'cos I didn't know this until informed myself - if you right click on the properties of an image, you can then triple-click on the Address section to select the URL and you can then copy-and-paste that into [IMG] tags and post the image in it's own. I only learned this myself when ponythread told me how to post things from DeviantArt.

[dehro]

I remember reading somewhere that that particular child was crapping his pants because of the make-up, but that underneath said makeup they guy trying to hug him was in fact his dad. smalltongue:

[Killer Angel]

It (as the link works for me, for some reason) was this:https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/577192_415205408532248_2022710873_n.jpg


Ah, thanks. Hilarious, indeed. :smallbiggrin:


I remember reading somewhere that that particular child was crapping his pants because of the make-up, but that underneath said makeup they guy trying to hug him was in fact his dad. smalltongue:

If it's true, I cannot blame the child...

[hamishspence]

Did Sauron actually exist as a big red lighthouse? My memory of the books is fuzzy. Somehow I can't imagine Tolkien being so cheesy. The eye should be mostly a metaphorical imagery, or a vision you'd see only when Sauron directly mind-links you.

Which is pretty much how it is in the book. Occasional references to a red beam coming from the Dark Tower- but nothing actually on top of the tower.

And Gollum speaks as though Sauron has a body- saying of his fingers "There are only four on the Black Hand, but that is enough."

At no point in the book does Gandalf say "He cannot yet take physical form" the way he does in the movies. Indeed, in Of The Rings of Power and The Third Age (last chapter of the Silmarillion) Gandalf, after coming back from the Necromancer's town, reveals that the Necromancer is Sauron, who has taken shape again.

[mangosta71]

Well, obviously the movies followed the books exactly, so we know that all the orcs and trolls were swallowed up by cracks in the earth that were somehow shaped just exactly right so that none of the humans would fall into them. And Frodo and company totally found the Shire just like they'd left it. That whole bit about "scouring the Shire" is a figment of your imagination.

[Aotrs Commander]

And Tom who?

Naaah, no such bloke!



(To be fair, every adaption I've ever seen left old Tom out, even the extremely well-done BBC Radio adaption. It's not like he was especially important to the main plot, after all, and LotR is a big thing to adapt; he's just a natural cull.)

[Bulldog Psion]

Which is pretty much how it is in the book. Occasional references to a red beam coming from the Dark Tower- but nothing actually on top of the tower.

And Gollum speaks as though Sauron has a body- saying of his fingers "There are only four on the Black Hand, but that is enough."

At no point in the book does Gandalf say "He cannot yet take physical form" the way he does in the movies. Indeed, in Of The Rings of Power and The Third Age (last chapter of the Silmarillion) Gandalf, after coming back from the Necromancer's town, reveals that the Necromancer is Sauron, who has taken shape again.

Sauron had physical form. He fought against Elendil, Gil-Galad, and Isildur, and Isildur ended up cutting the ring off his finger after he was defeated during the War of the Last Alliance.

In the Silmarillion, he was a sorcerer and shapeshifter who could adopt the form of serpent, bat, or wolf as well as his usual shape, which was "fair to look upon" until he was caught in the drowning of Numenor, after which he looked terrifying and ghastly.

So, he was sitting somewhere in a chamber in Barad-Dur. The Eye, I always got the impression, was some kind of magical scrying device like Galadriel's mirror. Although this was unsupported by canon either way, I always pictured him as living in very Spartan conditions, since he existed mostly in the mental plane, projecting his thoughts across the world and his armies.

After the fall of Barad-Dur, then he became a bodiless spirit in the wilderness, without true power.

Hope that helps. :smallsmile:

This message brought to you by Bulldog Psion, local Tolkien geek. :smallbiggrin:

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Sauron had physical form. He fought against Elendil, Gil-Galad, and Isildur, and Isildur ended up cutting the ring off his finger after he was defeated during the War of the Last Alliance.

And the loss of the Ring cost him his ruined form for a time until he took shape as the Necromancer.


In the Silmarillion, he was a sorcerer and shapeshifter who could adopt the form of serpent, bat, or wolf as well as his usual shape, which was "fair to look upon" until he was caught in the drowning of Numenor, after which he looked terrifying and ghastly.

His form was indeed destroyed when Numenor fell (http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Sauron#N.C3.BAmenor). When he returned to Middle Earth he found he could only take the form of a (not)giant with ever-burning skin, and could no longer hide his true self.


So, he was sitting somewhere in a chamber in Barad-Dur. The Eye, I always got the impression, was some kind of magical scrying device like Galadriel's mirror. Although this was unsupported by canon either way, I always pictured him as living in very Spartan conditions, since he existed mostly in the mental plane, projecting his thoughts across the world and his armies.

That sounds pretty cool, but I always felt the Eye of Sauron was merely the metaphorical idea that he could see anyone anywhere at anytime. He was simply incredibly powerful as a seer of sorts. He could cast his vision far from his tower. Still, the living on the mental plane is probably close to the truth.


After the fall of Barad-Dur, then he became a bodiless spirit in the wilderness, without true power.

Yes, but as I said, he's been incorporeal a few times. The last one was only the final end.

[grimbold]

"Big orcs unafraid of sunlight" first appeared in the armies of Sauron. Some 500-odd years before the events of LoTR, in an attack on Osgiliath.

Saruman may have refined them further though.

"half-orcs" first appear in Saruman's armies.

"Hai" just means "people".
this
i get the feeling though that the race of uruk hai disappeared or was diminished for a while though

[pendell]

It (as the link works for me, for some reason) was this:https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/577192_415205408532248_2022710873_n.jpg

pendell, just for reference, so ignore me if I'm teaching you to suck eggs; 'cos I didn't know this until informed myself - if you right click on the properties of an image, you can then triple-click on the Address section to select the URL and you can then copy-and-paste that into [IMG] tags and post the image in it's own. I only learned this myself when ponythread told me how to post things from DeviantArt.

Thanks! Didn't know that. I also didn't know that some people couldn't see the image, until someone mentioned it.

That bit about the Uruk-hai dying out is Gondorian propaganda. Everyone knows they mingled with the general population, and that is where mosh pits and English football fans came from :smallamused:

Tongue-in-cheek,

Brian P.

[WalkingTarget]

That sounds pretty cool, but I always felt the Eye of Sauron was merely the metaphorical idea that he could see anyone anywhere at anytime. He was simply incredibly powerful as a seer of sorts. He could cast his vision far from his tower. Still, the living on the mental plane is probably close to the truth

The "Eye of Sauron" was always a metaphor for/metaphysical representation of Sauron's will. The searching, never resting (the Eye is lidless, so it doesn't even blink) focus of his attention. He is not all-seeing or all-knowing, but he had a strength of will not to be surpassed by any of the free peoples of Middle-earth and it is this strength that allows him to maintain control over his slaves. The imagery of this was compelling enough that it became used as his emblem.

I always just chalked the big flaming eye on the tower in the films up to the filmmakers needing something that the audience could see to point to as the Big Bad without actually feeling like there would be an expectation that he'd actually have to be involved in a fight at some point (which they almost did at the Black Gate fighting with Aragorn - they wound up CGI-ing a troll in his place for the final release).

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

It works well enough in the movies. I think they made a good decision.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

It works well enough in the movies. I think they made a good decision.

Worked with what they had, plus Peter Jackson misremembering the book. Although I was very much angry when I saw that they almost had Sauron go at it with Aragorn. Not because that was non-canon or anything, but because they could've painted in the Mouth of Sauron there instead of a Troll, and the final fight would have been more interesting. Instead we get canon defilement when Aragorn kills the diplomat, and a lackluster Troll fight paired with an insanely awesome Mount Doom struggle.

Yes I'm still bitter.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Mouth of Sauron would have been epic, that's true.

[Ravens_cry]

Killing the Mouth of Sauron during parley would have been very out of character for Aragorn; it would be like killing a guest, however an unwelcome one.

[pendell]

Killing the Mouth of Sauron during parley would have been very out of character for Aragorn; it would be like killing a guest, however an unwelcome one.

Indeed. That was my least favorite scene in the movie and was glad it was deleted from the theatrical release. In the original novelization the Mouth returned from his embassy unharmed. He insulted Aragorn to his face, Aragorn gave him a Look, and the Mouth recoiled, saying "I am a messenger and herald, and may not be assailed!"

Gandalf replied "Where such laws hold it is also customary for ambassadors to use less insolence. But you have nothing to fear from us till your errand is done."

Having Aragorn murder the emissary during parley was a serious degrading of his noble character, to my mind.

Truthfully, I found the video game's treatment of this encounter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG4NEUZgM64&feature=related) (starting at 13:00) to be far more satisfying ... instead of simply murdering the Mouth, Aragorn challenged him to single combat. Single combat between champions used to be an accepted part of medieval and ancient warfare, and is in character for a noble king. Base murder of an ambassador is not.

That's always been an issue with Peter Jackson. Although I think he did an excellent job in things like the relationship between Aragorn and Arwen, all the human characters were brought down a peg or two, in terms of nobility of character.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Aye, his debasement of Farimir still gets my mum and my sister all riled up. Farimir is supposed to be perfect. That's kinda his thing, is that's he perfect. He's uncorrupted. He's never seriously swayed by the ring. Mum haaaaaates that Farimir got un-perfected. Though the chance to see more of Osgiliath was nice, I admit. Osgiliath was beautiful and perfect in the movie.

[dehro]

agreed.. Faramir got seriously nerfed. I understand the logic in it, because it was needed for the 2 hobbits to cut part of their travel short, which otherwise would have stayed unexplained in movieverse.. but it seriously took away from Faramir's quality.

[Wardog]

I once found a very well done bit of (I suppose it would be considered) fan-fic, presented as a reproduction of a late 19th-centuary travel-writer's account of a visit to Middle Earth. The traveller had employed a (perfectly friendly) Uruk-Hai as a guide.

(End notes explained that the last of the Uruk-Hai all died in the 1918 'flu epidemic :smallfrown:).


Unfortunately I haven't been able to find the website that had this bit of fan-fic on it. Has anyone else seen it?