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QuidEst
2012-07-22, 08:17 PM
Inspired by the Annoying D&D Stereotypes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=250259) board. I thought I'd make this for people can post ideas that play off of these in interesting ways.

A few ideas for starters-
• Play a lawful Rogue that works with the City Watch.
• Think of Paladins as fantasy's superheroes.
• Have a mediocre-looking princess or sorceress.
• Make a world with more dwarves than humans.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-07-22, 09:06 PM
• Think of Paladins as fantasy's superheroes.

*tries*

*tries harder*

Nope, can't do it. They could be bare-chested and use a greataxe, and it still wouldn't work. They're too weak.

Sgt. Cookie
2012-07-22, 09:14 PM
As an alternative, "Human" is a catch-all term that refers any person who's racial heratige is far too diluted or mixed to be aparent at first inspection.

Togath
2012-07-22, 09:48 PM
Scottish, beer loving bearded burly elves?(I actually have used them in a campaign setting)

Roxxy
2012-07-22, 10:27 PM
*tries*

*tries harder*

Nope, can't do it. They could be bare-chested and use a greataxe, and it still wouldn't work. They're too weak.Use the Pathfinder rules. Those Paladins are STRONG.

Roxxy
2012-07-22, 10:29 PM
I make all the PC races humans. Elf and dwarf are subraces, not races in their own right.

My dwarves live underground out of a love for inventive architecture. Because of this love, dwarves live in far more places than just underground. They also carve cities out of cliffsides, suspend them from treetops, and build them on gigantic ships.

Hyena
2012-07-23, 02:36 AM
Create a country, where it's a tradition that women's armor is covering and thick, while men's armor is revealing and skimply. THAT would be funny.

Killer Angel
2012-07-23, 02:52 AM
A few ideas for starters-
• Play a lawful Rogue that works with the City Watch.


I've played a lawful rogue, working alongside with the church (and paladins) of St. Cuthbert.
"When there is a sentence and the blade is guided by justice, it doesn't matter if the guilty meets its end by a sword in the sun or by a knife in the darkness".

Manly Man
2012-07-23, 03:44 AM
As I said in the other thread, have a prince who looks kinda like a woman be the one who gets captured (Gackt if you're in an Asian campaign).

Have the paladin be a smarmy, tricky bastard who bends the rules just as much as any greater devil worth his salt.

Have the main villain be the sort who invites the party to tea before discussing the many ways in which he will kill them... and turn it completely around by making their scones with arsenic. Or, even better, with chopped up peach cores and tell the party that they're an exotic nut that he finds rather enjoyable.

A war troll who runs an orphanage and only fights if and when the children are in danger is a neat idea, if you ask me.

The iron golem is in fact an awakened sorcerer who only acts like a regular golem would, and is the mastermind behind a plan to create a Marxist community.

Sir_Gabes
2012-07-23, 04:00 AM
As far as dwarves go, the best no typical dwarves are the DragonAge: Origins dwarves. They are so bloody sneaky and back stab each other politically. My idea of a typical dwarf is honorable warriors who have incorruptible strong moral codes. Also the rowdy drunken fighters that love good spirited brawls.

Non typical elves I imagine would be tough to think of. Maybe, elves that live more like Romans or even desert elves who are so covered up people forget what they look like.

North_Ranger
2012-07-23, 05:43 AM
• Play a lawful Rogue that works with the City Watch.


"You called, monsieur?"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/Eug%C3%A8ne-Fran%C3%A7ois_Vidocq.jpg/220px-Eug%C3%A8ne-Fran%C3%A7ois_Vidocq.jpg
Eugène Francois Vidocq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eug%C3%A8ne_Fran%C3%A7ois_Vidocq), often called the first private investigator.

Ulysses WkAmil
2012-07-23, 06:09 AM
• Play a lawful Rogue that works with the City Watch.
*cue dramatic announcer
"Dirty Barry is a loose cannon rogue, out to right wrongs, going around the law in the process. He's willing to *takes off aviators* get dirty."
And "most powerful hand-crossbow in the world" jokes ensue :smallbiggrin:

Kholai
2012-07-23, 06:15 AM
Atypical?

The Elves have just passed through the industrial revolution. They're now manning their borders with rifle wielding Redcoats and churning out magitech wargolems armed with fireball cannons and magic missile gatling guns. They're also getting into making Cyborgs.

They are good natured, polite, and helpful towards anyone who asks.

The Dwarves have passed a druidic ritual to become one with the mountains. They are now an entire race of mineral warriors in tune with their natural world who abstain from strong drink.

The kidnapped Princess was in fact not kidnapped at all, and has captured the BBEG and has been holding them for the proper authorities to arrive.

Have the villain eat live kittens. But he has to eat live kittens, otherwise he will die and his death will open a portal that an elder god will use to destroy the world.

Half the angels have allied with the Devils to fight against the Demons in the Blood War, half have allied with the Demons.

A group of Druids have figured out that sentient races making settlements is actually in their Nature to do, and supporting and encouraging them accordingly.

Half-Elves have finally manifested their parents' qualities more fully. They lose 1 Constitution, gain 1 Dexterity, gain an extra skill point every even level, and gain a free Trait at level 1. People now actually consider playing them.

All halflings are grim, humourless assassins feared throughout the lands, disguising themselves with long cloaks and using stilts to disguise their true natures as they stalk their prey.

The Order of Paladins includes Wizards, Swordsages, Sorcerers and Rogues all absolutely dedicated to the service of Good.

There are at least four "thieves guilds" in every city.
They compete. Violently.

Humans were a once proud and noble race, with an empire that covered the entire world, but are now slowly dwindling in the face of these new non-stereotypical events.

The Dark Fiddler
2012-07-23, 07:20 AM
As an alternative, "Human" is a catch-all term that refers any person who's racial heratige is far too diluted or mixed to be aparent at first inspection.

I like that, actually. I very much like that.

Sgt. Cookie
2012-07-23, 08:14 AM
I'm currently working on a homebrew Human that is just that. Expect it up soon!

Eldan
2012-07-23, 08:21 AM
Elves live in the forest, don't harm any living animal, love the trees and refuse to use most metals, since they harm the Earth. As a consequence, they are dirty, poor, disease-ridden scavenger-gatherer nomads and five hundred years behind everyone else in technology. Hence the -2 to constitution.

The ten year old prince was kidnapped by orcs. They said they'd let him play with their swords.

Lord Raziere
2012-07-23, 08:26 AM
Atypical?
*snip*


Why thank you, this has been copied and pasted. :smallbiggrin:

Eldan
2012-07-23, 08:58 AM
Half the angels have allied with the Devils to fight against the Demons in the Blood War, half have allied with the Demons.


That's canon, as far as I know. Archons are allied to the Devils, Eladrin with Demons. At least some of them. Angels really go either way, depending on what god they serve.

QuidEst
2012-07-23, 08:58 AM
*tries*

*tries harder*

Nope, can't do it. They could be bare-chested and use a greataxe, and it still wouldn't work. They're too weak.

Use the Pathfinder rules. Those Paladins are STRONG.

I'll admit, I play Pathfinder. :smalltongue:


As an alternative, "Human" is a catch-all term that refers any person who's racial heratige is far too diluted or mixed to be aparent at first inspection.
Very nice- I like that interpretation.


-Play an oration-focused Bard who's a travelling merchant using Glibness, Suggestion, Mage Hand, and Prestidigitation to pass mundane wares off as magical and fleeing before the guards find out. (Mostly because I'm tired of the musical Bard stereotype, even if it's their origin.)

-The Wizard is seeking as much power as possible- but not for personal reasons. He's afraid of all the more advanced planes that might invade some day.

-Play a serious gnome philosopher.

-One would suspect that a lot of catfolk would be fat and lazy.

-Play your Paladin as dramatic and poetic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrano_de_Bergerac_(play)), quixotic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Quixote), or brash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Musketeers).

Sgt. Cookie
2012-07-23, 09:33 AM
I'd said I'd make it, and I have. Humans (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13601973#post13601973), now as a genetic cocktail.

Manly Man
2012-07-23, 05:32 PM
That's canon, as far as I know. Archons are allied to the Devils, Eladrin with Demons. At least some of them. Angels really go either way, depending on what god they serve.

Actually, the Eladrin aren't allied with demons at all, and when the obyriths (the eldritch horror demons) were being overthrown, the eladrin invaded the Abyss as well. They didn't manage to purge the Abyss or anything, but they do own a layer that's contested by Pale Night, who captured many of the invading eladrin, turned them permanently into children and now hunts them for sport. She makes eating kittens look like Chutes and Ladders.

However, the idea of them allying with each other and whatnot is interesting, to say the least.

navar100
2012-07-23, 05:44 PM
SaTa'an is returning and The Eight support him. Asmodeous, knowing a Greater Evil when he sees one, desperately studies the old Pact Primevil to get the Heavens involved. There must be a loophole. There is one. He must redeem himself and return to the Light. A new Great Lawful Good Archangel is born.

A Prophecy turns out to be truly nonsense of a lunatic.

The party meets for the first time anywhere except a tavern.

Wererats petition the Baron, lawfully and True Honestly, for citizenship. They claim a threat is approaching below the city, but they can stop it.

Play a Lawful Good Necromancer. You learn to cast Animate Dead so you can counter it.

Eldan
2012-07-23, 06:21 PM
Actually, the Eladrin aren't allied with demons at all, and when the obyriths (the eldritch horror demons) were being overthrown, the eladrin invaded the Abyss as well. They didn't manage to purge the Abyss or anything, but they do own a layer that's contested by Pale Night, who captured many of the invading eladrin, turned them permanently into children and now hunts them for sport. She makes eating kittens look like Chutes and Ladders.

However, the idea of them allying with each other and whatnot is interesting, to say the least.

Hm. I mean, I don't have page quotes here, but I'm reasonably sure reading of alliances in Planescape. Though they were more in the style of "better this evil than the other evil" than a real alliance.
Yours seems to be Fiendish Codex? I really need to read those books at some point.

Erik Vale
2012-07-23, 07:07 PM
Non typical elves I imagine would be tough to think of. Maybe, elves that live more like Romans or even desert elves who are so covered up people forget what they look like.

Almost been done. They are known as Quarians.

Togath
2012-07-23, 07:38 PM
Two more I thought of from a dungeons and dragons setting I've been using(and that I've used parts of for an rpg I'm making), though I'm not 100% sure if they count, as they really only share their names with the normal varieties;
-A race of highly intelligent non-evil ogres, who's culture revolves around honor and order, they are also related to humans, which is why half-ogres are possible.
-And, a race of fairies(of the 3-4 foot tall, winged kind) who mostly form into groups acting much like stereotypical yakuza or work in tribes as assassins/ninja. They also have moth wings instead of dragonfly like ones.

erikun
2012-07-23, 07:41 PM
• Make a world with more dwarves than humans.
I actually see "No Humans!" games pop up from time to time.

Here are a few ideas that I've either ran or thought of running:
• Dwarven Rogue "locksmith" who uses his skills to tinker with and setup traps, and who fights together with others on the frontlines.
• Paladin of a death deity, who used his divine-authorized judgement on those who attack him.
• Drow who is not evil or Drizzt. I've had one thought of a Drow Druid (because it sounds funny) and another as a Drow Paladin who wants to show his race as something other than spider-worshippers.
• Gnome Paladin focused on acquiring and possessing knowledge.
• Bard with either Perform: Illusion or Perform: Storytelling, with obviously different methods of using their bardic music abilities.
• Epic-level Warmage who has done spell research to add several Wizard-like spells to his spell list.

Ravens_cry
2012-07-23, 07:41 PM
Paladins are redeemed villains on probation given an opportunity to redeem themselves.

JetThomasBoat
2012-07-23, 07:54 PM
In a thread earlier today, someone was looking for a new take on drow. This is something I just sort of blurted out and could definitely use more work, but it's maybe a start?



An idea I might suggest is saying why the drow became different than normal elves. Instead of having it be that they developed black skin (and ridiculous racial bonuses) from going under ground when Corellon kicked that spider b!#^% to the curb, maybe in the dawn of time while Corellon was busy fighting Gruumsh and all that, a bunch of weird aboleths kidnapped some of the outlying elven populations when they were expanding. The aboleths made the drow have dark skin for some weird, alien reason or something. Maybe something to do with them being in the aboleth's underwater cities. And make the drow have the amphibious subtype. Maybe they can caste dancing lights or faerie fire or whatever because they use it to hunt underwater, like those fish with the red lights on their heads. They cast it in a color other underwater creatures can't see, but it allows them to.

erikun
2012-07-23, 08:16 PM
In a thread earlier today, someone was looking for a new take on drow. This is something I just sort of blurted out and could definitely use more work, but it's maybe a start?


In a thread earlier today, someone was looking for a new take on drow. This is something I just sort of blurted out and could definitely use more work, but it's maybe a start?
That is almost exactly the story of the Gith / Githyanki / Githzerai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gith), except substitute Aboleths for Illithids and underwater for the Astral plane.

I actually prefer the Drow as-is, although with the inclusion of Eilistraee. It makes them a race of evil who chose to become evil, and so bring up their children in an evil-is-preferred environment. It produces characters with an interesting angle and outlook on life, and without the "you are evil because your people are always evil" that a lot of 'always-evil' races are stuck in.


Plus, I'm pretty sure aquatic elves in Dragonlance are basically what you are describing - elves that were kidnapped and forced into slavery by some aquatic race, kept alive with magic and experimented on until they could survive underwater on their own. And, while not necessary evil, they are a race of a bunch of **** to everyone else.

Togath
2012-07-23, 08:20 PM
I actually see "No Humans!" games pop up from time to time.

Here are a few ideas that I've either ran or thought of running:
• Drow who is not evil or Drizzt. I've had one thought of a Drow Druid (because it sounds funny) and another as a Drow Paladin who wants to show his race as something other than spider-worshippers.


Non-evil drow druids actually exist in the eberon setting, and there are also a few drow paladins in it as well if i remember right(though eberon has alot of unusuall features :smallsmile:)

JetThomasBoat
2012-07-23, 08:20 PM
Also, for the knights always being good and upholding their code and honor and all that stuff, just have one little story arc in a campaign where you're in a new nation that seems a bit antiquated and has a lot of knights running around throwing their titles and such about.

For their personalities? Just read a couple of chapters in any Song of Ice and Fire book. Don't ruin the entire premise of the campaign or the setting by making it rampant, but just have one backward, corrupt kingdom where the nobility and knights do whatever the hell they want, not caring who gets killed or maimed or knocked up in the process. It'll open some PC eyes and once all the bastard knights are dead, the PCs will feel good.

JetThomasBoat
2012-07-23, 08:26 PM
That is almost exactly the story of the Gith / Githyanki / Githzerai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gith), except substitute Aboleths for Illithids and underwater for the Astral plane.

I actually prefer the Drow as-is, although with the inclusion of Eilistraee. It makes them a race of evil who chose to become evil, and so bring up their children in an evil-is-preferred environment. It produces characters with an interesting angle and outlook on life, and without the "you are evil because your people are always evil" that a lot of 'always-evil' races are stuck in.




That's why I went with aboleths. And honestly, I spent like fifteen minutes trying to come up with an actually good reason for drow to have black skin, as stuff underground would have turned pale. I went with the water approach because it would be an interesting twist and I always thought the faerie fire/dancing lights seemed really tacked on.

And while I whole heartedly respect your feelings on drow, I'm SOOOOO tired of them. And I guess I never saw them as choosing to be evil. I always saw it as Lolth chose to be evil and a bunch of the elves were too stupid to get off the ride before it started, and now they're stuck.

Ravens_cry
2012-07-23, 08:27 PM
I want to make drow more suited for deep cave life. Large blind eyes, dead pale skin.
As a back reference to the older version, perhaps they have a thick black sunscreen they wear on the surface as protection against sunlight, hence why everyone thinks they have dark skin.

erikun
2012-07-23, 09:47 PM
That's why I went with aboleths. And honestly, I spent like fifteen minutes trying to come up with an actually good reason for drow to have black skin, as stuff underground would have turned pale. I went with the water approach because it would be an interesting twist and I always thought the faerie fire/dancing lights seemed really tacked on.

I want to make drow more suited for deep cave life. Large blind eyes, dead pale skin.
As a back reference to the older version, perhaps they have a thick black sunscreen they wear on the surface as protection against sunlight, hence why everyone thinks they have dark skin.
Perhaps aboleth ink is black, and the constant immersion of it to keep them enslaved has permanently stained their skin? Or maybe the "original" aboleth home was not in the deep sea, but in a deep hole filled with oil, and their skin coloration is due to them having survived in oil rather than water for generations.

Of course, if you're changing their appearance and abilities and motivations, then I wonder why you'd still call them drow. :smalltongue:

JetThomasBoat
2012-07-23, 10:05 PM
Of course, if you're changing their appearance and abilities and motivations, then I wonder why you'd still call them drow. :smalltongue:

I never said I was changing their appearance, I'm trying to make one of their abilities THAT I ALREADY SAID SEEMED TACKED ON make more sense, and the original point of the either of the threads was to either turn drow on their heads, or avoid a stereotype.

EDITED: You were talking to him, huh? Sorry.

navar100
2012-07-23, 10:35 PM
What you think you know about the Drow is a lie. Araunshee and her followers did rebel against Corellon, but not because they were evil. Corellon is the true evil one. Why do you think elves are such snobs? They only pretend to befriend humans to conquer them, since their high birth rate makes conventional means difficult for the Long Lived. Half-elves are the moles. Through clever propaganda the elves have convinced the world the Drow are the evil ones.

All those Drow-Human fights are nothing but misunderstandings. The Drow do not have slavery. They are matriarchal but not amazonian. Males do achieve high standings in culture and politics. It's just that Drow society is a theocracy and only females can become the clerics. Males excel at wizardry.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-07-23, 10:43 PM
What you think you know about the Drow is a lie. Araunshee and her followers did rebel against Corellon, but not because they were evil. Corellon is the true evil one. Why do you think elves are such snobs? They only pretend to befriend humans to conquer them, since their high birth rate makes conventional means difficult for the Long Lived. Half-elves are the moles. Through clever propaganda the elves have convinced the world the Drow are the evil ones.

All those Drow-Human fights are nothing but misunderstandings. The Drow do not have slavery. They are matriarchal but not amazonian. Males do achieve high standings in culture and politics. It's just that Drow society is a theocracy and only females can become the clerics. Males excel at wizardry.

Yeah, well, my msle wizard decides to sneak into one of your ceremonies and cast Silent Acid Fog, then Cloudkill. Take that, bitches. :smallamused:

Also, they totally aren't amazonian. Amazons are actually brave.

Geostationary
2012-07-23, 11:26 PM
...

Play a Lawful Good Necromancer. You learn to cast Animate Dead so you can counter it.

Material Component: Silver Bells, ritually prepared. Abhorsen anyone?

erikun
2012-07-23, 11:33 PM
Aha, that reminds me: I'd like the chance to play a good-aligned Mummy Cleric of a sun deity, with the ability to command undead. A high cleric of Ra, so to speak.

Arbane
2012-07-23, 11:57 PM
I remember one campaign I heard about where the 'drow' were desert-dwellers. (The dark skin was due to them adapting to the searing sunlight.) They weren't especially evil, but they did have a MASSIVE grudge against the regular elves who'd exiled them to die.

Manly Man
2012-07-24, 12:46 AM
Hm. I mean, I don't have page quotes here, but I'm reasonably sure reading of alliances in Planescape. Though they were more in the style of "better this evil than the other evil" than a real alliance.
Yours seems to be Fiendish Codex? I really need to read those books at some point.

Yes, I use the Fiendish Codex for references to that sort of thing. It was one of the last books printed out for 3.5, and it was, at least claimed to be, the be-all-end-all of demonic and Abyssal lore.

As for other ideas...

A sakura petal is animated and then awakened, and becomes a chaotic good ninja. When all of the corrupt politicians are being assassinated with absolutely no trace of a trespass or any other sort of break in, it's the party's job to find out what's causing the problem and either destroy it or make sure it never comes back. I, personally, would invite it into my party.

Libertad
2012-07-24, 01:43 AM
Dwarves, Elves, or some other group is the dominant and prominent group instead of humans (true in Dragonmech with the Dwarves).

Halflings are on a constant war footing against larger, dangerous creatures and fight with guerilla tactics while hiding out in rugged badlands.

Orcs were once dire enemies of humans and their allies, but long ago they resolved their differences when a superior threat came along. Integrated communities in the border towns led to the high population of half-orcs in the setting.

Emperordaniel
2012-07-24, 02:58 AM
Halflings are on a constant war footing against larger, dangerous creatures and fight with guerilla tactics while hiding out in rugged badlands.

I actually have this one in my campaign, more or less. :smalltongue:

Ravens_cry
2012-07-24, 03:33 AM
Goblinoids are mostly travelling merchants.
Goblins on wolves act as scouts, bugbears pulling large wheeled carts act as barely sentient beasts of burden, while hobgoblins form most of the other roles, particularly leadership, though occasionally a goblin will fill this position.
The bugbears position might sound like slavery, but it is really more a familial camaraderie, of each in their place in a nomadic caste society.

Jay R
2012-07-24, 10:29 AM
My 2E elven mage/thief has become an Earl, focused on improving the lot of his peasants. He has given the dwarves his mines to work and live in, and has a far better relationship with them than with anyone else. He has started a military academy to train a superior army, and is developing steam power and gasoline. He travels with a paladin, and is more self-consciously good than she is (He has given more to orphanges by a wide margin, for instance.)

I'm not sure how much less stereotypical I can make him.

hamishspence
2012-07-24, 11:57 AM
Yes, I use the Fiendish Codex for references to that sort of thing. It was one of the last books printed out for 3.5, and it was, at least claimed to be, the be-all-end-all of demonic and Abyssal lore.


BoED also pointed out that archons find the Chaos of the eladrins much easier to tolerate than the Evil of the devils- they're Good first, Lawful second, just as eladrins are Good first, Chaotic second.

Good aligned deity of war (focusing heavily on "just wars") and Evil-aligned deity of love (of the most tragic kind) would be an interesting alternative to the more traditional ones.

GenericGuy
2012-07-24, 12:17 PM
Elves think magic is a scourge on the world that disturbs the natural order of things by disrupting the equilibrium nature has set up. Since elves are magical creatures they hate themselves as well, and either set up primitive, non-intrusive on nature, tribes or become adventurers trying to do good to make up for their disgusting existence.

Orcs are passionless and emotionless race bred as the perfect slaves who follow order unquestioningly, they’re insanely uncreative (but are very intelligent, having a great grasp for numbers) and think in a very utilitarian manner.

Morithias
2012-07-24, 12:36 PM
The princess and the dragon are in love and are going to get married.

The high priest of a good-religion is a half-fiend.

Someone in your group actually plays a Tinker Gnome that actually makes useful stuff.

GenericGuy
2012-07-24, 12:58 PM
The princess and the dragon are in love and are going to get married.


Even better the knight falls in love with the Dragon, while rescuing the princess from it.:smalltongue:
http://andersson.elfwood.com/DragonLayer.2524328.html:smallwink:

toapat
2012-07-24, 01:33 PM
The princess and the dragon are in love and are going to get married.

The high priest of a good-religion is a half-fiend Asmodeus.

The Princess proposed the marriage to her red dragon girlfriend at that.

corrected

AgentofHellfire
2012-07-24, 01:56 PM
A few ideas for starters-
• Play a lawful Rogue that works with the City Watch.
.

I almost did this. The Rogue ended up being True Neutral rather than Lawful Neutral, but...yeah.

I also have a Lawful Rogue that works for a government and a Lawful Rogue who hates thieves and kills/beats the sh** out of any she finds screwing around, but...XD



Make the "Robin Hoods" of the setting go into the kind of territory that you'd expect from a terrorist group when "fighting for freedom and justice".
Make a Barbarian villain that plans to do something other than "invade".

Eldan
2012-07-24, 02:43 PM
BoED also pointed out that archons find the Chaos of the eladrins much easier to tolerate than the Evil of the devils- they're Good first, Lawful second, just as eladrins are Good first, Chaotic second.


That is, however, pretty much in direct opposition to a lot of old canon. So, I'd take it with a grain of salt.

hamishspence
2012-07-24, 02:48 PM
It's not unheard of though in modern D&D.

On the other side of the coin, with LE and CE fiends being able to tolerate each other: we have demons, devils and yugoloths working together under the yugoloth lord Malkizid (former archdevil, former angel) in Forgotten Realms.

And of course the IFCC in Order of the Stick.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-07-24, 06:09 PM
The princess and the dragon are in love and are going to get married.

It is an unintentional side effect of the dragon staying in the form of a handsome man most of the time when he's around her, as well as correctly roleplaying his high intelligence and charisma, and treating the princess nicely until the kingdom pays up.

Also, the princess is a master swordsman, better than the knight that comes to rescue her.

She's still the hottest woman in the kingdom. Because what's so bad about that? :smallwink:

JetThomasBoat
2012-07-24, 06:13 PM
In one of the campaign settings I was working on years ago, after I giant war hundreds of years ago, the halflings and gnomes, tired of not having a place to call their own, banded together and evin got goblins and kobolds in on it, and now they have a nation made up entirely of small races.

So yeah, something like that. Giving gnomes and/or halflings a decent, well established homeland.

Also, the characters meet in prison (since they're all wandering, loot obsessed sociopaths, anyway).

I usually have to railroad them into meeting in a tavern because no one could be bothered to give me a back story. I think from now on, I'll start saying: "Give me a back story or you're going to jail". When they act confused, I'll just be like "You heard me." And then when they fail to give me a back story so I can come up with how they meet, they're all going to start out in jail.

Morithias
2012-07-24, 10:06 PM
The princess IS the hottest woman in the kingdom...however she is NOT hot by modern day standards. She is hot by medieval standards, where pale skin (from not working outside), and lots of body fat (from having lots of food to eat) where considered attractive.

When you rescue the princess you find she weights as much as the warforged with the adamantium body.

Also this princess is not a "Disney Princess" she is kind yes, but she also loves to PARTY! Gather the party we're going to the tavern, and the princess is covering the tab!

(Seriously do the "Princess takes everyone out drinking, and drinks everyone under the table" scenario, your players will love it)

Manly Man
2012-07-24, 10:10 PM
Good aligned deity of war (focusing heavily on "just wars") and Evil-aligned deity of love (of the most tragic kind) would be an interesting alternative to the more traditional ones.

Well, Aphrodite was kind of a bitch.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-07-24, 10:12 PM
Well, Aphrodite was kind of a bitch.

She was also forced to marry someone based on a quick decision without her opinion. I don't consider it bad at all that she cheats with Ares.

Manly Man
2012-07-24, 10:15 PM
About the only Greek deity that could be considered halfway decent was Hades, and he was the god of the underworld. Another subversion of death gods, and this one is canon at that.

Menteith
2012-07-24, 10:23 PM
Every random NPC is as optimized for their respective roles as the PCs. That farmer working the stony hillside? He's a Magic Blooded Ice Dweller Human Factotum 3 with Skill Focus: Farmer and Font of Inspirationx2. And he's darned good at being a farmer.

Lord_Gareth
2012-07-24, 10:24 PM
Use the Pathfinder rules. Those Paladins are STRONG.

No, they just smack things harder.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-07-24, 10:51 PM
About the only Greek deity that could be considered halfway decent was Hades, and he was the god of the underworld. Another subversion of death gods, and this one is canon at that.

...You have really low opinions of the Greek gods. They're basically humans with superpowers. Zeus is that one arrogant guy who gets whatever he wants. Poseidon is a less (although still) arrogant guy who's much more laid-back, but he's also pretty used to getting stuff. Hades is all sullen from having to oversee the Underworld. Artemis is a prick to guys, but can be duly impressed. Apollo is generally a ladies' man who loves music and is good at archery. Hermes upholds an oath to never lie to this day, but like any good scoundrel, he bends the rules. Ares is that one god, kinda like the Ebon Dragon is that one Yozi in Exalted, except Ares is a warrior instead of the manipulative bastard. Athena is condescending to those she dislikes, but helpful to those she does. Hephaestus is a socially awkward guy who's really good at building stuff. Hera... yeah, she threw Hephaestus off Olympus because he was ugly, and is really vindictive towards Zeus' lovers and children, but the latter is at least partially justified because she's the goddess of marriage and Zeus is constantly cheating and can easily withstand any punishment. She also helped Jason, one of very few pure mortal heroes. Dionysus is like the ultimate party guy. Demeter... was really sad.

And Hestia is that quiet girl who tends the hearth.

Manly Man
2012-07-24, 11:59 PM
Much of what I've read about them includes the gods being *******s on the whole, but I haven't read legends like that for awhile.

Then again, gods in general tend to be like that. The Norse gods killed giants and jotuns for fun, and a lot of Native American spirits were tricksters of the worst kind. So yes, I don't think very highly of the Greek gods, but nor do I think highly of pretty much any god out there.

Another divine subversion: Jesus Christ. He's a Neutral Good lich, and you don't find that very often. Even if his crucifixion was little more than a setback to him, he still went through all of that to help people out.

toapat
2012-07-25, 12:23 AM
Much of what I've read about them includes the gods being *******s on the whole, but I haven't read legends like that for awhile.

Then again, gods in general tend to be like that. The Norse gods killed giants and jotuns for fun, and a lot of Native American spirits were tricksters of the worst kind. So yes, I don't think very highly of the Greek gods, but nor do I think highly of pretty much any god out there.

Another divine subversion: Jesus Christ. He's a Neutral Good lich, and you don't find that very often. Even if his crucifixion was little more than a setback to him, he still went through all of that to help people out.

Jesus was a lvl 2 Favored soul, not a lich

Manly Man
2012-07-25, 01:06 AM
My no longer present rebuttal.

PersonMan
2012-07-25, 02:09 AM
My rebuttal. (http://luduscarcerum.blogspot.com/2012/04/and-we-wonder-why-people-think-d-is.html)

I prefer this response. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?f=30&a=1) *wink wink nudge nudge*

Manly Man
2012-08-10, 05:11 PM
A paladin whose mount is, instead of being some pure white horse that appears on the peak of a mountain, is instead a dire lizard that was to be sought out in a dark, dank swamp.

Tesla_pasta
2012-08-10, 08:54 PM
Material Component: Silver Bells, ritually prepared. Abhorsen anyone?

Why have I never attempted to play Sabriel in a DnD game before?
Gah. Now I need to stat her out asap.

*pulls out dusty, well loved books*

Ill be offline for the next 10 hours, gotta re-read something.

Corvus
2012-08-10, 09:56 PM
I'm always playing really oddball characters or subverting things when I'm DMing.

I've played a halfling barbarian who was perpetually drunk, a pyromaniac dwarven wizard who walked around with dozens of vials of alchemist's fire strapped to his body (the other PCS kept a respectful distance to avoid death by splash damage), a dwarven pacifist monk who would never kill any living creature, a human berserker who never berserked, a paladin of the love and fertility goddess (immune to disease, high charisma, spread the message of fertility and love).

Elves are often evil nercomantic bigots in my setting, orcs can be found as wild but not evil herders and horsemen and the like.

Archpaladin Zousha
2012-08-12, 02:01 AM
The princess IS the hottest woman in the kingdom...however she is NOT hot by modern day standards. She is hot by medieval standards, where pale skin (from not working outside), and lots of body fat (from having lots of food to eat) where considered attractive.

When you rescue the princess you find she weights as much as the warforged with the adamantium body.

Also this princess is not a "Disney Princess" she is kind yes, but she also loves to PARTY! Gather the party we're going to the tavern, and the princess is covering the tab!

(Seriously do the "Princess takes everyone out drinking, and drinks everyone under the table" scenario, your players will love it)
I'd propose to that princess in an instant!

Also, consider elves built like this:

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/096/0/b/elves_do_war_too_by_murdelli-d4v7ksi.jpg
Seriously, they can't ALL have super-fast metabolisms!

Morithias
2012-08-12, 02:55 AM
I'd propose to that princess in an instant!

Also, consider elves built like this:

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/096/0/b/elves_do_war_too_by_murdelli-d4v7ksi.jpg
Seriously, they can't ALL have super-fast metabolisms!

Must...resist...urge...to...type...bad...joke...ab out...willingness...to...sleep...with...elf.

Mook: Doesn't that technically count as a bad joke about that?
Me: Shut up Mook.

Silus
2012-08-12, 03:45 AM
"You called, monsieur?"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/Eug%C3%A8ne-Fran%C3%A7ois_Vidocq.jpg/220px-Eug%C3%A8ne-Fran%C3%A7ois_Vidocq.jpg
Eugène Francois Vidocq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eug%C3%A8ne_Fran%C3%A7ois_Vidocq), often called the first private investigator.

More like this gent I think.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/75/Samuel_Vimes.jpg

SAMUEL VIMES UP IN HERE! ANKH-MORPORK REPRESENT WOOT WOOT!

Archpaladin Zousha
2012-08-12, 12:37 PM
She also helped Jason, one of very few pure mortal heroes.
Jason? Pure? Hardly! After all his wife did for him to help him claim the throne, he decided he was gonna dump her for someone else, which resulted in the death of that someone else and Jason's two children in revenge, reducing Jason from a king to a cursed hobo who died reminiscing about his glory days under the rotting hull of his vessel, without realizing that that was a VERY BAD IDEA. :smallannoyed:

Anyway, some alternatives to sterotypes I'd like to see include:

Non-evil members of a traditionally evil race (drow, tieflings, etc.) more interested just in survival, whether that's by disguising themselves and blending in or by obtaining wealth or power so the ones who would persecute them can't touch them, than in being a good example to prove not all their kind can be painted with the same broad brush. Not all drow are going to be Drizzt, and I think a lot of non-evil but still not good people would probably just want to either be left alone or to integrate into society so thoroughly that people don't notice their race. Basically it's like most of these evil races have two stereotypes now: the cackling evil majority and the angsty good rebels. Time to have something a little more in-between.

Divine classes that act and dress more like their historical counterparts, such as clerics who prefer robes and preaching as opposed to strapping on scale armor and swinging a mace around. Only a few particular priests in the Middle Ages went all Norse War Cleric on the infidels. It didn't constitute a majority of the priestly population. Likewise, let's see some druids who dress in white robes and carry staves with mistletoe and masks of oak leaves as opposed to the roleplaying game stereotype of a shamanistic brute clad in furs with a bear-head hood that somehow has antlers for no apparent reason.

Finally, lets see some mages who summon demons that aren't insane cultists wanting to take over the world. They use the demons for knowledge and wishes, being the dominant figure in the summoning relationship as opposed to the status quo in roleplaying games, where anyone summoning a demon is immediately that demon's little you-know-what because they worship the thing or they get in over their heads. Where are the mages that take precautions when summoning? That know what they're getting into and take every pain to ensure things go smoothly and which may be censured by their local church for their activities but aren't the kind of people who'll eat kittens for giggles?

Geostationary
2012-08-12, 03:03 PM
More like this gent I think.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/75/Samuel_Vimes.jpg

SAMUEL VIMES UP IN HERE! ANKH-MORPORK REPRESENT WOOT WOOT!

And this one was not below involving the Watch or certain government officials.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/82/Making_Money_Lipwig.JPG
MOIST IS IN THE HOUSE! MR. PUMP, HIT IT!

Slipperychicken
2012-08-12, 05:19 PM
Every random NPC is as optimized for their respective roles as the PCs. That farmer working the stony hillside? He's a Magic Blooded Ice Dweller Human Factotum 3 with Skill Focus: Farmer and Font of Inspirationx2. And he's darned good at being a farmer.

This will get your players fleeing in droves once you get around to Opto-Guard, Opto-King, Opto-Assassin, and perhaps worst of all: Opto-Big-Bad. The PCs won't even know he exists. Even after he has them all CDG'd in their sleep.


PC: [succeeds charisma roll] All right, so I follow the young woman up to her room and spend the night with her. Who says Bards suck? I'm the one getting laid tonight.

DM: You have an excellent night and dream beautiful dreams, away from your party members. Unfortunately for you, that means no-one's on watch.... [rolls] Take 86 damage and roll a Fort save.

PC: [rolls] :smalleek:

DM: You're dead. Your throat was cut in your sleep by an assassin buffed with Greater Invisibility and Silence. The young woman awakes the next morning only to find your cold, bloody corpse. Be more careful next time.

Randomguy
2012-08-12, 08:54 PM
This will get your players fleeing in droves once you get around to Opto-Guard, Opto-King, Opto-Assassin, and perhaps worst of all: Opto-Big-Bad. The PCs won't even know he exists. Even after he has them all CDG'd in their sleep.


PC: [succeeds charisma roll] All right, so I follow the young woman up to her room and spend the night with her. Who says Bards suck? I'm the one getting laid tonight.

DM: You have an excellent night and dream beautiful dreams, away from your party members. Unfortunately for you, that means no-one's on watch.... [rolls] Take 86 damage and roll a Fort save.

PC: [rolls] :smalleek:

DM: You're dead. Your throat was cut in your sleep by an assassin buffed with Greater Invisibility and Silence. The young woman awakes the next morning only to find your cold, bloody corpse. Be more careful next time.

So roleplaying isn't dead, but roleplayers are.


There are lots of ways to subvert the stereotypical princess:

The "party" princess version, except she friendzones the knight who saved her and ends up in bed with the performer at the Inn they stopped at. (leaving the party bard dismayed).

The dragon was really a sorcerer who knew the spell Shapechange, who was also the princess' childhood friend and "kidnapped" her to help her escape her fate as a living bargaining chip, just waiting to be married off.

The knight is actually a half-dragon, and the kidnapping dragon's son/daughter. He/she is in on the whole thing.

The knight is actually a half-dragon, who saves the princess from the dragon and then kidnaps her himself.

The dragon is a hero, who saved the kingdom by killing the doppleganger that replaced the princess.

The entire dragon thing is an illusion that the princess cast to escape.

The dragon thing is an illusion that someone else cast as a decoy. The dragon is not happy you showed up at his doorstep demanding a princess.

The dragon thing is an illusion that another dragon cast as a decoy. The party slays the wrong dragon and rescues the wrong princess.

The entire thing was a Xorvintaal play twenty years in the making.




The high priest of a good-religion is a half-fiend.

Screw half-fiend: The high-priest is a legitimately good redeemed Balor with cleric casting.

The High priest of Pelor is a Solar. It's Pelor the Burning Hate.


The gathering hordes of undead aren't caused by a necromancer, but a death knight stuck in a trap. The death knight's aura gathers the undead. The death knight is an LG paladin, since the evil deity that created him was killed.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-08-12, 09:18 PM
The princess IS the hottest woman in the kingdom...however she is NOT hot by modern day standards. She is hot by medieval standards, where pale skin (from not working outside), and lots of body fat (from having lots of food to eat) where considered attractive.

When you rescue the princess you find she weights as much as the warforged with the adamantium body.
So everyone in those days was metrosexual (if I'm using that word wrong, please inform me)?

I think the most attractive woman in that period would be a woman with an hourglass/voluptuous figure, and just enough meat on her bones to be fully healthy (28" waist, perhaps?).

Jason? Pure? Hardly! After all his wife did for him to help him claim the throne, he decided he was gonna dump her for someone else, which resulted in the death of that someone else and Jason's two children in revenge, reducing Jason from a king to a cursed hobo who died reminiscing about his glory days under the rotting hull of his vessel, without realizing that that was a VERY BAD IDEA. :smallannoyed:

-insert facepalm pic here-

I meant pure mortal bloodline.

Slipperychicken
2012-08-12, 09:44 PM
So roleplaying isn't dead, but roleplayers are.


Honestly, I've never thought it was a good idea for a hero to get romantically involved while he's a massive shining target for the setting's denizens. It screams of irresponsibility.

To survive, you just need to roleplay as someone who understands the full implications of 3.5 magic and monsters on the world, and the danger that puts him in as a hero: That nothing is as it seems, everything is either a trap, an illusion, or worse until proven otherwise. Do not take anything at face value; magic can and will fool you. Every moment of your life, some crazy Wizard could be staring at you, watching, waiting for you to let your guard down. Every woman you see could be a Succubus waiting to drain your soul, every piece of furniture a Mimic waiting for its next meal, every letter an Explosive Rune, and every magic item a malevolent spirit ready to hijack your body.

toapat
2012-08-12, 10:08 PM
Honestly, I've never thought it was a good idea for a hero to get romantically involved while he's a massive shining target for the setting's denizens. It screams of irresponsibility.

To survive, you just need to roleplay as someone who understands the full implications of 3.5 magic and monsters on the world, and the danger that puts him in as a hero: That nothing is as it seems, everything is either a trap, an illusion, or worse until proven otherwise. Do not take anything at face value; magic can and will fool you. Every moment of your life, some crazy Wizard could be staring at you, watching, waiting for you to let your guard down. Every woman you see could be a Succubus waiting to drain your soul, every piece of furniture a Mimic waiting for its next meal, every letter an Explosive Rune, and every magic item a malevolent spirit ready to hijack your body.

To summurize:

Everything is a Trap, or Wizard, until proven otherwise by application of excessive magical force.

Menteith
2012-08-12, 10:14 PM
This will get your players fleeing in droves once you get around to Opto-Guard, Opto-King, Opto-Assassin, and perhaps worst of all: Opto-Big-Bad. The PCs won't even know he exists. Even after he has them all CDG'd in their sleep.

Vecna-Blooded Necropolitian (Spellstiched prior to insanity thing) Changeling Wizard with Elder Evil devotion for Vile Feats, and the feats Persona Immersion, Willing Deformity: Madness, & Craft Contingent Spell.

You have one day to find said individual when they don't want to be found, before they complete a ritual that will summon Atropus/Sink the continent/turn everything on TV into a reality show. Hope you have access to a Metafaculty (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/metafaculty.htm) capable of beating Vecna's Caster Level or one hell of a Gather Information check.

Randomguy
2012-08-13, 12:50 AM
Vecna-Blooded Necropolitian (Spellstiched prior to insanity thing) Changeling Wizard with Elder Evil devotion for Vile Feats, and the feats Persona Immersion, Willing Deformity: Madness, & Craft Contingent Spell.

You have one day to find said individual when they don't want to be found, before they complete a ritual that will summon Atropus/Sink the continent/turn everything on TV into a reality show. Hope you have access to a Metafaculty (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/metafaculty.htm) capable of beating Vecna's Caster Level or one hell of a Gather Information check.

You could just hire a high level Void Disciple for a couple of minutes. That'll let you find out if he's in a 1000 mile radius. And detect magic (to learn about a spell he cast, not him) could find out if he teleported recently.

Menteith
2012-08-13, 07:08 AM
You could just hire a high level Void Disciple for a couple of minutes. That'll let you find out if he's in a 1000 mile radius. And detect magic (to learn about a spell he cast, not him) could find out if he teleported recently.

Sense Void will only return what their senses can normally perceive. Technically speaking, the Dragon Mag Song of the Dead metamagic can also work, as can a handful of other abilities. It's still a pretty limited range of options.

DigoDragon
2012-08-13, 08:31 AM
-One would suspect that a lot of catfolk would be fat and lazy.

In my homebrew world:

"Catfolk" are engineers and inventors. No bonuses to DEX here, all their bonuses are to INT skills such as crafting. Makes them desirable as skill monkeys, and indeed my group always hires one on retainer to maintain their equipment on the go.
The two main goddesses they worship are Solaria (goddess of crafting and natural laws) and Lunaria (goddess of dreams and inspiration).



Also, consider elves built like this:
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/096/0/b/elves_do_war_too_by_murdelli-d4v7ksi.jpg
Seriously, they can't ALL have super-fast metabolisms!

"Elves" in my setting are the magically superior decendants of Humans, after genetic engineering was performed a few thousand years ago by a prior civilization. As such, Elves are naturally taller and can have large bodies like Humans. Being magically superior, Elves have used that advantage to become the dominant race in my capaign setting, building large empires made of crystal, brass, and force. They also maintain a skilled army (Service is mandatory, which maintains the Elves weapon proficiencies).


Something else that's common in my setting is an explanation of what "dungeons" are. A prior civilization died out about 2000 years ago. They saw their demise coming (turns out, they caused it deliberately), and built these dungeons as vaults holding all their knowledge, magic, and technologies for their decendants to uncover and use. The traps found within are tests of strength, intelligence, courage, and skill to ensure only the best of their decendants are able to acquire them.
In order to keep these vaults intact, the builders left golems to perform routine maintenance and protect the treasures from damage. After 2000+ years however, a lot of them malfuction...

The Random NPC
2012-08-13, 08:34 AM
So everyone in those days was metrosexual (if I'm using that word wrong, please inform me)?

I think the most attractive woman in that period would be a woman with an hourglass/voluptuous figure, and just enough meat on her bones to be fully healthy (28" waist, perhaps?).


-insert facepalm pic here-

I meant pure mortal bloodline.

I think you're using that wrong, a metrosexual is a guy who cares about his appearance a lot. And to give you an idea of what was attractive at those times, Henry the VIII was about 6 feet tall, weighed about 300 pounds, and considered one of the most attractive men during his time.

supermonkeyjoe
2012-08-13, 09:00 AM
A mysterious old man/women approaches the adventurers.

"Harken travellers, I have seen a vision of your fates"

he/she then sits the PCs down and explains exactly what they have seen in plain common and describes the various possible meanings of the vision, and none of it rhymes.


The PCs finally confront the villain in his castle, lightning striking all around, and the villain spins around, spreads his arms wide and asks them all to sit down with him and discuss their points of view, he asks them nicely to stop interfering in his plans and if they refuse tries to work out a compromise where everyone can be happy.


A dread lich who harkens from time immemorial, who has pretty much done everything he set out to and is just looking for something to entertain him in his unlife, he frequents the theatre, plays card games in taverns and generally helps people out around town just for something to do

Serafina
2012-08-13, 09:25 AM
A evil race of empire that isn't doing medieval evil.

Instead of backstabbing each other, teamwork is highly encouraged and failing to do so horrendously punished.
Conquered populations - and the own for that matter - are fiercely protected, well-fed and educated. Mess with them and you will get wiped out and conquered yourself.
Sacrifices to dark gods aren't done for the evilz, but because they're the best method to ensure the well-being of your nation.
Be brutal in battle yet kind in victory - its the best way to ensure that no one will want to fight you.

In other words - a cold, calculating kind of evil, that cares for its own citizens yet is utterly brutal to others.

Serafina
2012-08-13, 10:01 AM
If you are annoyed by an objective alignment system, but still want to keep it for mechanical or other reasons:

Good and Evil are defined by following the commandments of (the) god(s).
Nothing that is commanded by god(s) is ever evil, even murdering your own child or such. On the other hand, going against the command/ments of god(s) is always evil - if you are not sacrificing your own child if ordered to do so, you are considered a wicked, evil person.
Now of course most of the time the command/ments of the gods are in line with our own morality - but sometimes your good character is ordered to so something that in a normal game (and real life) would be evil. Now he can choose to disobey the command/ment - but then he is no longer of "good" alignment, and possibl turns "evil".

Overall this makes for an interesting alternative - Blackguards could be Paladins that have recognized how morally wrong "good" can be, and the demons/devils are rebels against the morality of heaven and actually have a good cause. Staying in any alignment can become a morally ambiguous choice if this is done right.

It also explains races that are always "evil" - they are simply contrary to the plan of that god, and thus always considered "evil" no matter what they do.

Oh, and this can work with both a single or multiple gods - but what is "good" or "evil" should be defined by a single deity regardless. Though a pantheon with no "evil" deities also works fine.

Wardog
2012-08-13, 11:43 AM
And to give you an idea of what was attractive at those times, Henry the VIII was about 6 feet tall, weighed about 300 pounds, and considered one of the most attractive men during his time.

I think Henry VIII was considered attractive when he was young, fit and atheletic.

If he was also considered attractive when older and fatter, that was probably because he was also rich and powerful.

The Random NPC
2012-08-13, 11:56 AM
I think Henry VIII was considered attractive when he was young, fit and atheletic.

If he was also considered attractive when older and fatter, that was probably because he was also rich and powerful.

That could be the case, it's been a few years since my last history class.

Water_Bear
2012-08-13, 01:05 PM
...And to give you an idea of what was attractive at those times, Henry the VIII was about 6 feet tall, weighed about 300 pounds, and considered one of the most attractive men during his time.

Before the invention of the photograph most people never saw or even heard much of a physical description their rulers, except through portraits and coins (frequently done in a Heroic style) and histories (which were idealized stories as a rule).

The idea of emphasizing a monarch's evil by depicting them as having monstrous characteristics or unnatural appetites goes back to the dawn of writing. Our modern conception of Henry VIII as an obese man chewing on a leg of ham is probably about as far from the truth as the idea that he was a paragon of attractiveness.

Anyway; Stereotype Alternatives

The Players enter a tavern and see a man in a dark cloak sitting alone in the poorly-lit corner. When they go over to talk to him, he seems evasive and speaks in a hoarse whisper. Eventually he offers to pay them handsomely to investigate a far-away dungeon.

When the players get back and ask for payment, he is shocked that they actually went and did it. His robe is because he has a skin condition which makes him self-conscious, and he mumbles because crowds make him nervous. When the PCs wouldn't leave him alone, he just tried to get rid of them without thinking about it.

Feeling terrible about the whole thing, he says he has a small fund he was saving to get a Cleric to cast Remove Disease on him, which he offers to the Players in condolence. If they choose not to take advantage of him, his knowledge of obscure dungeon locations will certainly come in handy later.

Arbane
2012-08-13, 07:05 PM
Divine classes that act and dress more like their historical counterparts, such as clerics who prefer robes and preaching as opposed to strapping on scale armor and swinging a mace around. Only a few particular priests in the Middle Ages went all Norse War Cleric on the infidels. It didn't constitute a majority of the priestly population.

Of course not, but those are the ones who people will most want to play in an _adventure game_, as a general rule.

On that note, where are all the Wizard spells with useful applications BESIDES turning people into clouds of charged particles?



Where are the mages that take precautions when summoning? That know what they're getting into and take every pain to ensure things go smoothly and which may be censured by their local church for their activities but aren't the kind of people who'll eat kittens for giggles?

They're over in Exalted, where demon-summoning is morally dubious, somewhat risky, and VERY useful. :smallbiggrin:

Slipperychicken
2012-08-14, 11:48 AM
On that note, where are all the Wizard spells with useful applications BESIDES turning people into clouds of charged particles?


Like all those ones they presumably used to make Bugbears and Beholders. There ought to be more spells for things like "tune my stringed instrument", "find my damn keys", "tie my shoes", and "play music for me".

Low-level Divine spells can solve pretty much any mortal problem with a Standard Action; Famine? Create Food and Water, pant growth on farms. Disease? Removed. Blindness? Removed. Addiction? Also removed. Psychological trauma? Gone forever (it's in BoED, I think).

A 5th level Cleric with nothing but a holy symbol and Wis 13 can take down basically any problem short of physical assault, and is an priceless asset to the community.

Eldan
2012-08-14, 12:00 PM
You say "here ought to be more spells for things like "tune my stringed instrument", "find my damn keys", "tie my shoes", and "play music for me".", I hear:
Unseen Servant, Locate Item, Unseen Servant, Ghost Sound :smalltongue:

A handful of spells can solve pretty much any household problem. Get an at will item of prestidigitation and unseen servant, and you'll never do chores again.

hamishspence
2012-08-14, 01:10 PM
Our modern conception of Henry VIII as an obese man chewing on a leg of ham is probably about as far from the truth as the idea that he was a paragon of attractiveness.

There are things like his last suit of armour that hint that he was indeed overweight.

Wardog
2012-08-14, 04:42 PM
Something I thought about a while back:

(Slight digression to give context):

Over the course of real-life history, various barbarian groups showed up, raided and pillaged and generally terrorised the civilized nations, and then disapeared back into the wilderness from where they came. Huns. Vikings. Mongols. Etc.

These peoples were invariably viewed by their victims as complete monsters - both morally, and sometimes even literally. Consider Jordanes' description of the Huns:


"... a savage race, which dwelt at first in the swamps, a stunted, foul and puny tribe, scarcely human, and having no language save one which bore but slight resemblance to human speech. They made their foes flee in horror because their swarthy aspect was fearful, and they had, if I may call it so, a sort of shapeless lump, not a head, with pin-holes rather than eyes. Their hardihood is evident in their wild appearance, and they are beings who are cruel to their children on the very day they are born. For they cut the cheeks of the males with a sword, so that before they receive the nourishment of milk they must learn to endure wounds. Hence they grow old beardless and their young men are without comeliness, because a face furrowed by the sword spoils by its scars the natural beauty of a beard. They are short in stature, quick in bodily movement, alert horsemen, broad shouldered, ready in the use of bow and arrow, and have firm-set necks which are ever erect in pride. Though they live in the form of men, they have the cruelty of wild beasts."
(Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huns#Appearance_and_customs))

They were, essentially, the Orcs of their world.

But we now no-longer consider "foreigners who look a bit different" to be hideous monsters (even if they were/are warlike and aggressive). And in the countries that these "barbarians" came from, or settle in for the long term, they now tend to be viewed with pride: the founders of the nation, or an important part of their cultural heritage. And of course, actual people with familes and lives, rather than just slathering killers.


So, to return to the theme of the thread:

How about a land that was conquered by orcs many centuries ago. Since then, the orcs settled down, merged with the native population, and became civilized. (Or at least, no lesscivilized than any other pseudo-medieval D&D nation). Now, most of the population have some orcish ancestry (whether that counts mechanically as being a half-orc, or just means they are an orcish-looking human, or a human who will probably find an orc or two if they trace their family tree back far enough).

Now, the people of that land look on their orcish heritage with pride. The orcs weren't a ravening horde of barbarians who came to destroy, but a noble horde of barbarians that gave birth to a new nation. "Looking orcish" is no longer seen as being ugly, or frightening, or a sign of shame, but normal, and attractive. Maybe even in neighbouring countries it has come to be seen as "exotic" rather than unpleasant.

The nation may (or may not) now have a social structure, economy, etc not too disimilar from its neighbours, but aspects of orcish culture (or things that are assumed to be remnants of orcish culture) still remain, and are seen as an important part of their identity.

hamishspence
2012-08-14, 05:04 PM
Sounds quite reasonable. Some Faerun nations, like Phsant, already seem to be halfway there- with a few generations you could easily have something like this.

QuidEst
2012-08-14, 08:45 PM
I like that take on Orcs/Half-Orcs.

One of the things that kind of bugs me is how much other planes are ignored. I mean, planes more or less take everything from alien horror movies and put it a spell casting away. I think there should be more people well and truly scared of that.
Some fun planar stuff:
•Throw in the occasional refugees from a world where the good guys didn't save the day in time (all of whom considered their plane to be the "prime" plane, naturally).
•High-leveled clerics travel from plane to plane, spreading worship of their patron deity across many realities.
•Wizards are old and bearded because they spend time in faster-time planes to carry out a couple months of research and study in a week of their home plane's time.

hiryuu
2012-08-14, 09:57 PM
What about...

Humans are the best at brewing, because -everyone- is going to be drinking their alcohol.

Or even making humans the big bad magical race.

Morithias
2012-08-14, 11:06 PM
What about...

Humans are the best at brewing, because -everyone- is going to be drinking their alcohol.

Or even making humans the big bad magical race.

Makes more sense than the dwarfs or humans. I don't see the dwarf getting a +2 bonus to profession skills, while the human can take skill focus or some other skill boosting feat at level 1.

Makes more sense than the elves, the +2 dex is nice, but seriously I'd take the bonus feat over it, and if you argue the grey elves get +2 int, I've got a tiefling who want a word with you.

Actually have the tieflings be ruling the (non-evil) magic ruled empire. It would make sense for a race with fiend blood to be into the arcane rather than a race that lives in trees (seriously how often has some elvish sorcerer burned down the bloody city).

Craft (Cheese)
2012-08-16, 10:36 PM
The Players enter a tavern and see a man in a dark cloak sitting alone in the poorly-lit corner. When they go over to talk to him, he seems evasive and speaks in a hoarse whisper. Eventually he offers to pay them handsomely to investigate a far-away dungeon.

When the players get back and ask for payment, he is shocked that they actually went and did it. His robe is because he has a skin condition which makes him self-conscious, and he mumbles because crowds make him nervous. When the PCs wouldn't leave him alone, he just tried to get rid of them without thinking about it.

Feeling terrible about the whole thing, he says he has a small fund he was saving to get a Cleric to cast Remove Disease on him, which he offers to the Players in condolence. If they choose not to take advantage of him, his knowledge of obscure dungeon locations will certainly come in handy later.

Party Cleric: "Hey, I have that spell prepared today! *casts*"

What happens then?

toapat
2012-08-16, 11:12 PM
Party Cleric: "Hey, I have that spell prepared today! *casts*"

What happens then?

double win?

Water_Bear
2012-08-16, 11:20 PM
Party Cleric: "Hey, I have that spell prepared today! *casts*"

What happens then?

They win the undying loyalty of said NPC and I reward the Cleric's Player with 500 role-playing xp.

And then I wake up because my Players would never just have Remove Disease prepared when they could prepare a combat buff. :smallfrown:

toapat
2012-08-16, 11:25 PM
They win the undying loyalty of said NPC and I reward the Cleric's Player with 500 role-playing xp.

And then I wake up because my Players would never just have Remove Disease prepared when they could prepare a combat buff. :smallfrown:

you need to use more mummies then

Randomguy
2012-08-16, 11:49 PM
New take on Mer-people:

Mermen are actually constructs, which is how they can survive underwater without gills. They are built to be self-replicating. Most mermen don't actually know that they're constructs.

Manly Man
2012-08-17, 01:59 PM
One of those crazy, omnicidal Eldritch Abominations that are written about so much is actually a kind being who wishes to aid the denizens of a coastal town, but is afraid to show itself to them, and so enlists the help of the PCs to be its medium and warn the folks of a large fleet of pirates that have come to pillage the place.

Coldyham
2016-01-04, 02:23 PM
Orcs in my campaign world are a 'mostly' (as much as Orcs can be) species created through a human hunter who took up a dubious offer to become the best hunter in the land. They are a matriarchal society in the way some Native Americans were, so the females run all the boring stuff and the men hunt or fight. They are, however separated from the traditional mountain and cave dwellers who prey on travelers, which are Orks. There's still a good deal of racism, since they don't really respect borders as such, but the (majority human) nation they border (only one because of how the mountains work. They do have a coast but they don't use it much) benefits enough from their goods (including, thanks to a player I allowed too much freedom to, Orcish crack) to keep them safe from most issues. They are mostly nomadic but have a bi-annual festival at their only permanent settlement, which I assign to IRL times of year to make the world feel more real. (sorry if rambling)

My favourite start, and one I think works best for new players, is "You were on a ship, what was it carrying?". Careful moderation may help you avoid the Orcish crack issue, and, most times I genuinely have no adventure idea specifically, but this start immediately involves the players in some role-playing. The next question of course, as soon as you have a shortlist of trade routes which ships with that cargo could be on, is "Why did you choose to make this journey". This brings the imagination closer to the characters, and in conjunction with your shortlist, and the previous disscussion, can really set the seeds of backstory growing. Depending on interest, campaign type or just which parts of the world are fleshed out yet, the ship might run aground or reach port, or be attacked, stopped by customs (remember what they said was in the cargo) etc.

Feel a bit like I'm letting out trade secrets there, but if it helps, I'm happy to do so.

Douche
2016-01-04, 03:06 PM
I make all the PC races humans. Elf and dwarf are subraces, not races in their own right.

That's basically what Warcraft did. Elves & trolls all share a heritage. Meanwhile; humans, gnomes, and dwarves were all created by the Titans as constructs (basically Warforged) that were eventually made organic by the Curse of the Flesh by the Lovecraftian old gods. It's really just orcs and Draenai that are aliens from another dimension.

8BitNinja
2016-01-05, 10:23 AM
Elves with Y chromosomes

HeadAcheron
2016-01-05, 10:59 AM
Half-Orcs whose Orc mothers and Human fathers were loving couples who did good jobs of raising their children. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0555.html)

Menace
2016-01-05, 12:28 PM
The dragon kidnapped the princess... only to save her from being sacrificed by the king.... beacause she was going to destroy the kingdom... as she was cursed by a tribe that the king invaded and destroyed when he was young...while he was at war with another kingdom and had mistaken them for his enemies. The rest of the royal family suffers from the same curse (the kind planned a group suicide to save his country)

Paladins are hated in universe because acting Lawfull stupid is pretty much a required feature to become one. They never work together cause most the time they fail to be "lawfull good enough" for the others standards. They are regarded as pretty much insane by everyone else so they tend to conceal their identities.

The church of the god of healing and life are bastards who enjoy inflicting painfull mutations and experimenting on their victims for the sake of "evolution". They are opposed by followers of the god of suffering and nightmares, who believe that pain is a gift from their god, meanst to challenge people to strenghten their soul and shouldn't be inflicted for flimsy means.

TheEmerged
2016-01-05, 01:42 PM
RE: Merfolk. I actually did a bit of a subversion on this one once. I decided that on a world with a similar water\land ratio to Earth but more distinct continents that the Merfolk language was "Common" - that is, since most of the trade in the world went through their territories, it should be them doing it. So their language became the trade pidgin, and eventually the "shared" language people started using in intercontinental diplomacy as well.

RE: ThreadNecromancy. Gaaaaaah, sorry.

nedz
2016-01-05, 02:06 PM
Thread Necromancy folks :smalleek: