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t209
2012-08-01, 10:24 PM
Which one of these rebels is your favorite?
1. Amon (Legend of Korra)
A revolutionary who wanted to give justice to non benders against bender's tyranny (turns out he is one). At first, we thought that he became this because he and his family was attacked by firebenders gangsters. Even though it has been a lie, he is still morally ambiguous since his brother was a tyrant and some benders, especially gangsters are evil.
2. Lelouch (Lelouch of Rebellion)
He started the resistance against the segregationist evil empire, after he and his sister survived a hit from the emperor. Unfortunately, he's not Luke Skywalker and willing do evil things to do "right". He wiped out the japanese resistance group,used as a bait, by blowing up a ship to kill off the Marines Robots. He also became a tyrant, like his father, when he took the throne (At least he banned segregation of territories by numbers).
3. Ulfric Stormcloak (Skyrim)
He's like viking Lelouch except the empire is more benevolent (as in fair to natives) than the one in Lelouch of Rebellion. He used to serve the Empire until the empire sold out their (Nords) gods, along with Hammerfell, in order to appease the evil elves (if you are a stormcloak). At the beginning of the game, you see the Stormcloaks as heroic rebels from Starwars but their darker side began to reveal as the game progresses. During their liberation of Markath before the events of Skyrim, they slaughtered innocent people for not supporting them and are nationalistic racists. Their questline is even more heartbreaking (both Jarl Balgruuf's anger on your betrayal and the speech by dying General Tulius) than the Imperial one.
4. Jet (The Last Airbender)
He and his rebels resisted against the fire nation. But they are willing to attack innocent people and annihilate a village for their cause.
5. V (V for Vendetta comic)
Unlike the movie by Wachowski Brothers, the Norsefire's police state has more justification since the world is annihilated by nuke and needs to restore order to post apocalyptic world and V is an anarchist. When V (or Evey giving him a viking funeral) blew up the parliament, England turned into chaos. Well, that depends on Evey (now donning V's costume).

Lord Raziere
2012-08-01, 10:33 PM
LELOUCH VI BRITTANNIA!

*salutes*

He is one of the best masterminds I've ever seen, and he does it all for good reasons, all the while steadily doing more morally ambiguous things that make you question his methods all the way while acknowledging that what he does is certainly effective.
and he does it all with style.

Forum Explorer
2012-08-02, 02:40 AM
LELOUCH VI BRITTANNIA!

*salutes*

He is one of the best masterminds I've ever seen, and he does it all for good reasons, all the while steadily doing more morally ambiguous things that make you question his methods all the way while acknowledging that what he does is certainly effective.
and he does it all with style.

I mostly agree. Also he's a liar who literally cannot seem to stop lying. It's kinda amusing but if he had told the truth about some things he's plans would have gone much smoother.

But the style is the important part. Everything he does defiantly has a lot of style.

Cespenar
2012-08-02, 04:15 AM
The Squirrels in both Witcher and Witcher 2. So much so that the game goes almost out of its way to present to the player the perfect moral ambiguity. Or so I felt.

Feytalist
2012-08-02, 04:23 AM
5. V (V for Vendetta comic)

Thumbs up for including the actual original V. The graphic novel's V is has much more ambiguous motives than the kinda-sorta hero the movie portrayed him as. My personal "headcanon" is that V was a dangerous, psychotic, and certainly insane individual out on a massive mission of vengeance, idealising Anarchy as only a side product.



The Squirrels in both Witcher and Witcher 2. So much so that the game goes almost out of its way to present to the player the perfect moral ambiguity. Or so I felt.

The books are even more ambiguous. In fact, in the novels everyone has their own hidden agenda. No-one is clearly in the right, not even Geralt himself. Great books.

Cespenar
2012-08-02, 05:25 AM
The books are even more ambiguous. In fact, in the novels everyone has their own hidden agenda. No-one is clearly in the right, not even Geralt himself. Great books.

Are the English translations any good?

t209
2012-08-02, 05:34 AM
Don't forget The Resistance from the Brink
But they are more hateful for blowing up the reactor (No Nuke but deadly radiation) when it is supposed to be a bluff by Brother Chen.
So,How many of you have thought that Amon is based on V (Vegeance driven Nobody) before his revelation as a mentally abused water (+blood) bender who hated the benders because of his abusive father.

Feytalist
2012-08-02, 05:49 AM
Are the English translations any good?

Pretty good, yeah.

I thought so, anyway.

Mr.Silver
2012-08-02, 07:18 AM
So, how many of you have thought that Amon is based on V
Why should we? Besides wearing masks there really isn't that much similarity in their methods or goals. Amon's a charismatic leader with the goal of establishing a new order. V is very much a loner who makes it pretty clear that his main concern is destroying the current power structure, even if society won't be able to recover as a result.

Yora
2012-08-02, 07:30 AM
I like the Runners from Mirror's Edge.

They are not really Rebels, but they refuse to bow to The Man and they keep on doing their unlicensed courier service, tresspassing and squatting as their last act of rebellion against a society that has given up on itself.

It even becomes a major plot point, and you could say twist:
The traitors don't actually fight against the other runners, they just realized that what they have been doing is just stupid and accomplishes nothing, and it's better to use their skills as employes for the police than to get shot or fall to their death. That their friends interfere with their police work was unexpected and regretable.

"Survival is overrated. You need to live a little, too."

The Squirrels in both Witcher and Witcher 2. So much so that the game goes almost out of its way to present to the player the perfect moral ambiguity. Or so I felt.
Yaevinn was a ****, but the rest of them seemed like rather okay guys.
And Sigfried was also quite cool, but what should he do when people start taking hostages in banl robberies to fund their guerialla war?

t209
2012-08-02, 10:06 AM
How about the Forsworn from Skyrim?
You later found out that the "barbarians" are fighting for freedom but their purpose did not redeem them from being the monsters who kill everything they see, even their fellow bretons (like the stable owner) were disgusted by the Forsworn. Madanach and his men even killed fellow breton landlords for his plan to manipulate the Silverbloods family. Ironically, the Forsworn are just as same as their enemy, Ulfric Stormcloak, who wanted to free their land from oppression (though the empire is much better than the Silverbloods).

Maugan Ra
2012-08-02, 10:15 AM
LELOUCH VI BRITTANNIA!

*salutes*

He is one of the best masterminds I've ever seen, and he does it all for good reasons, all the while steadily doing more morally ambiguous things that make you question his methods all the way while acknowledging that what he does is certainly effective.
and he does it all with style.

The style is the important thing, I must say. And my word, the ham...

Obey me subjects, obey me world! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDuSUDlK2dc)

Man on Fire
2012-08-02, 10:47 AM
Black Company has large variety of rebels. Through Books Of North ("Black Company", "Shadow Linger", "The White Rose" and "The Silver Spike") there are several incarnations of the resistance. Circle of Eighteen from first book are really bunch of selfish wizards who aren't in any way better than Lady and her resident evil wizards, Ten Who Were Taken (it's stated clearly that the only reason either group haven't destroyed another completely is that both Eighteen and Taken waste power, time and resources for schemes and backstabbings). Rebels, once The White Rose takes them over, are fairly better, but also composed of both idealists and selfish nobles who wants only to regain privileged position (something main character from Silver Spike points out to White Rose) and of course

Black Company themselves.

In Water Sleeps we also have

Remmants of Company, who are good guy but do a lot of questionable things. And their leader wastes time and resources to kidnap an unimportant member of evil regime out of petty reasons.

Moak
2012-08-02, 10:55 AM
Between those, I can vote only between the one I knows, and my vote is for Lelouch. Style over all the place.

In absolute, I'll go with Simon(o all the Dai Gurren) of TTGL, because, you know, he rebels against his village.

Enough?

No. Against all the surface and those damn beast men.

Enough?

No. I rebel against the government guided by a friend of mine.

Enough?

No. I rebel against creatures so powerful that are able to build up a universe with bended fisic laws ONLY to try to pown me at my own game.

tensai_oni
2012-08-02, 11:14 AM
How is Simon morally ambigous?

Gensh
2012-08-02, 11:35 AM
How is Simon morally ambigous?

This. He created a society fair for both humans and beastmen and then explicitly made the right choice in reigning in Spiral Power after promising the Antispiral he would do just that.

But anyway, +1 for Lelouch.

Omergideon
2012-08-02, 11:42 AM
The only one I like is V, mostly because his actions certainly go beyond the pale and are morally ambigous at best. And yet his opponents are so despicable you almost want to cheer for him. Until you remember how necessary they were etc etc etc.


Unless we consider vigilantes to be rebels, in which case I am morally obligated to like Captain America even when he is breaking the law in a rubbishy storyline (guess the one)

Nerd-o-rama
2012-08-02, 11:51 AM
The thing is that with the possible exception of V and Ulfric (V because his canon is ambiguous and Ulfric because I'm never going to play another Elder Scrolls game), all of these people went way farther than what they needed to and ultimately screwed up because their various egos and psychoses got in the way of their stated goals. Or in Lelouch's case, the writers needed a second season and half-assing an excuse. Goddamn Euphie thing is still the dumbest "plot twist" ever.

On that note, by the way, I'd like to nominate Lelouch's ultimate inspiration, Char Aznable, for this list. Dude always appeared to have a point and be on the side of actual independence, as opposed to the oppressive jackwagons he constantly backstabbed, but ultimately he was too tied up in his own personal vendettas to care about the people he was supposedly trying to save.

Anyway, point is, these "rebels" get too tied up in themselves for me to respect them as anything but villains who might, theoretically, have a positive effect by accident, no matter how sympathetic they are.

Xondoure
2012-08-02, 12:25 PM
Anyway, point is, these "rebels" get too tied up in themselves for me to respect them as anything but villains who might, theoretically, have a positive effect by accident, no matter how sympathetic they are.

But that's what's great about Lelouch. While he can certainly be seen as a villain, he did have positive effects on the world and they were all done on purpose. Whereas his most horrible action was an accident.

Surrealistik
2012-08-02, 12:43 PM
I can't stand Lelouch, or Code Geass in general. That series demands a constant, robust suspension of disbelief and toleration for contrivance. Besides that, I just find the stench of melodrama ubiquitous to him and the cast to be obnoxious. The character reeks of poserdom, and overwrought rule of cool just like RE's Albert Wesker; borderline self-satirizing IMHO.

Amon. Easily the most sympathic and believable of the list thus far, while being generally good at what he does.

Psyren
2012-08-02, 04:58 PM
As much as I love Code Geass, I have to agree with others about its contrivance. "Hey Lelouch you achieved everything you set out to do at long last OOPS YOUR GEASS MALFUNCTIONED AND POOPED ALL OVER YOUR HARD WORK LOL!"

One of my favorite villains of all time was Knives Millions from Trigun. "I kill spiders to save butterflies - it's simple logic."

Gaelbert
2012-08-02, 06:31 PM
Why should we? Besides wearing masks there really isn't that much similarity in their methods or goals. Amon's a charismatic leader with the goal of establishing a new order. V is very much a loner who makes it pretty clear that his main concern is destroying the current power structure, even if society won't be able to recover as a result.

Have you read the graphic novel? The character goes on a monologue or two about the difference between the lands of "Take As You Want" and "Do As You Please," or whatever he calls them. It matters very much to him how the new society ends up. He just trusts that one girl whose name I can't recall and in the basic goodness of people, to some extent.



3. Ulfric Stormcloak (Skyrim)
He's like viking Lelouch except the empire is more benevolent (as in fair to natives) than the one in Lelouch of Rebellion. He used to serve the Empire until the empire sold out their (Nords) gods, along with Hammerfell, in order to appease the evil elves (if you are a stormcloak). At the beginning of the game, you see the Stormcloaks as heroic rebels from Starwars but their darker side began to reveal as the game progresses. During their liberation of Markath before the events of Skyrim, they slaughtered innocent people for not supporting them and are nationalistic racists. Their questline is even more heartbreaking (both Jarl Balgruuf's anger on your betrayal and the speech by dying General Tulius) than the Imperial one.



Even if you don't play through the Stormcloak questline, you still consider the elves evil. I haven't heard a single positive comment about them, outside of being fun to kill or what have you.

Mr.Silver
2012-08-02, 06:46 PM
Have you read the graphic novel? The character goes on a monologue or two about the difference between the lands of "Take As You Want" and "Do As You Please," or whatever he calls them. It matters very much to him how the new society ends up. He just trusts that one girl whose name I can't recall and in the basic goodness of people, to some extent.
You mean the graphic novel where he admits it's entirely possible that what he's doing could result in basically the end of civilization because there's no guarantee the people will actually be able to realise his idea of the better state? Yes, yes I have. Multiple times.
V has a clear ideology and vision, but his personal goal is destroying the current state. If the land of do as you please is to be achieved it won't be under his watch, he makes that abundantly clear. That responsibility will be on everyone else, and if they don't manage that then so be it.

Reverent-One
2012-08-02, 06:51 PM
One of my favorite villains of all time was Knives Millions from Trigun. "I kill spiders to save butterflies - it's simple logic."

/Agree
10 char

Gaelbert
2012-08-02, 07:03 PM
You mean the graphic novel where he admits it's entirely possible that what he's doing could result in basically the end of civilization because there's no guarantee the people will actually be able to realise his idea of the better state? Yes, yes I have. Multiple times.
V has a clear ideology and vision, but his personal goal is destroying the current state. If the land of do as you please is to be achieved it won't be under his watch, he makes that abundantly clear. That responsibility will be on everyone else, and if they don't manage that then so be it.

Hasn't civilization already been destroyed? The Norsefire regime is putting people into concentration camps. To say that makes me (and likely most other people) really uncomfortable is an understatement. It's not a very civilized act. And then there's the fact that V could have destroyed the entire state at any time throughout the novel. He only does so once he gives the population the chance to stand up, develop a backbone, and actually be able to put something together once the Norsefire regime has fallen.

t209
2012-08-03, 01:49 AM
Even if you don't play through the Stormcloak questline, you still consider the elves evil. I haven't heard a single positive comment about them, outside of being fun to kill or what have you.
Not seeing elves as evil but seeing the empire as bootlickers to the elves, in the eyes of the stormcloak.

oblivion6
2012-08-03, 04:15 AM
Amon of course. i almost felt sorry for him at the very end. tarlocks a snake, for doing what he did.

blowing up the boat he was on with amon

Moak
2012-08-03, 04:38 AM
How is Simon morally ambigous?

Is Ambigous as.... a man who, replying a post while doing something else, simply forget that part and remember that the topic was about rebels..

It SEEMED strange to me that there wasn't Simon nor the classical Star Wars resistence mentioned.

Lesson learned: reread the topic before posting! :smallredface:

grimbold
2012-08-03, 05:28 AM
haleigh starshine all the way :P

Tengu_temp
2012-08-03, 08:58 AM
haleigh starshine all the way :P

Not morally ambiguous, only briefly a rebel. Don't shoehorn in GitP examples just because this is a GitP forum. And if you absolutely have to, at least write the character's name correctly.

mangosta71
2012-08-03, 09:29 AM
There's the Operative from Serenity, though he's not a rebel until the very end of the movie.

"I'm a monster. What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done."

t209
2012-08-03, 09:35 AM
Sons of Korhal from Starcraft
Sure, you will love them since they are avenging the Confederates (since Starcraft terrans are rednecks) for nuking their planets. But later, their leader became Napoleon from Animal Farm and proceeded to act like Confederate that he overthrow but this time the rebel to the Dominion protects innocents when they were abandoned during Zerg Invasion.

The Succubus
2012-08-03, 10:34 AM
I'm really not impressed by any of the Skyrim factions as far as defined personalities go. Ulfric is a horrible, self serving racist and the less said about the faceless, charisma-less Legion the better.

hamishspence
2012-08-03, 10:58 AM
It SEEMED strange to me that there wasn't Simon nor the classical Star Wars resistence mentioned.

The Rebel Alliance can get a little more morally ambiguous in the books and comics- but it tends to be a few bad apples rather than the group as a whole.

Man on Fire
2012-08-03, 05:30 PM
Simon actually has a very morally ambigious moment:


When Anti-Spiral reveals the truth about Spiral nemesis. Everybody are shocked and either think it's a lie, or consider abbandoning their cause. Lordgenome says that Spirial nemesis is true and somebody with so much Spiral Power as Simon knows it. He then says that Simon doesn't care - he'll risk the destruction of the Universe to save Nia. He turns out to be right.

Omergideon
2012-08-04, 09:00 AM
There's the Operative from Serenity, though he's not a rebel until the very end of the movie.

"I'm a monster. What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done."

That level of self awareness made him a far more interesting character than any of the ones the film itself focused on. Especially Crazy Lady River. A man who knows he is a purely evil monster, but does so with a total absence of malice or joy in his work is fascinating. I would honestly love to see a sequel so long as it focused on him.

But his rebel status was far from confirmed even at the end as there is no clear declaration that he would be actively fighting the alliance.

Though Mal was certainly a rebel a lot of the time, and could tend to the morally ambiguous on more than one occasion....

Tengu_temp
2012-08-04, 09:14 AM
Man, don't remind me about Crazy Lady River. She used to be a much more interesting character in the series, but in the movie she's just a vehicle for Joss Whedon's fetishes. And, to make it worse, some fans prefer that (http://xkcd.com/311/).

Sith_Happens
2012-08-05, 06:37 PM
ALL HAIL LELOUCH!

Yes, I admit that the lengths the universe/writers went to to undo all his work again and again got pretty silly, but the way he bounces back every time with barely a break in his stride is part of what's so awesome. Not to mention DAT FINALE.

Dienekes
2012-08-05, 11:01 PM
Hasn't civilization already been destroyed? The Norsefire regime is putting people into concentration camps. To say that makes me (and likely most other people) really uncomfortable is an understatement. It's not a very civilized act. And then there's the fact that V could have destroyed the entire state at any time throughout the novel. He only does so once he gives the population the chance to stand up, develop a backbone, and actually be able to put something together once the Norsefire regime has fallen.

Well yes, it's a horrible civilization, but civilization regardless. People moved on with their lives, they could get adequate sustenance, and weren't destroyed in a nuclear holocaust that seems to have ended most of the rest of the world.


It's unfortunate, but largely the problems of the Norsefire regime were already finished. Oh sure, they were still harsh and totalitarian, but the concentration camps were over, they'd already removed the unwanted. And Susan was already cracking up. Honestly, the way it's set up makes it seem that the state couldn't last as it was anyway with or without V's interference. Susan was growing insane, the main people behind the government were already fragmenting, Prothero would eventually be unable to be the voice of Fate, and so on.

What we see V do is essentially wipe the slate clean of government completely. And we end on scenes of violence, rape, and broken people essentially giving up on ever making a difference. Leaving everything in the hands of Evey, who quite frankly was not nearly as driven or as intelligent as V.

Yeah, I'm not all that much a fan of the state of the world V left it in. And can see a definite case for it being worse than what was before it.

elizasteave
2012-08-06, 01:07 AM
My favorite ones out of the list provided here are- Amon, Ulfric and V(V obviously for vendentta). I find the space too short too describe about them but yes, regarding V, I feel proud to say that V is for victory which is for Vendentta.

t209
2012-08-06, 07:26 PM
Well yes, it's a horrible civilization, but civilization regardless. People moved on with their lives, they could get adequate sustenance, and weren't destroyed in a nuclear holocaust that seems to have ended most of the rest of the world.


It's unfortunate, but largely the problems of the Norsefire regime were already finished. Oh sure, they were still harsh and totalitarian, but the concentration camps were over, they'd already removed the unwanted. And Susan was already cracking up. Honestly, the way it's set up makes it seem that the state couldn't last as it was anyway with or without V's interference. Susan was growing insane, the main people behind the government were already fragmenting, Prothero would eventually be unable to be the voice of Fate, and so on.

What we see V do is essentially wipe the slate clean of government completely. And we end on scenes of violence, rape, and broken people essentially giving up on ever making a difference. Leaving everything in the hands of Evey, who quite frankly was not nearly as driven or as intelligent as V.

Yeah, I'm not all that much a fan of the state of the world V left it in. And can see a definite case for it being worse than what was before it.
V was the result of the horrible civilization's downfall since
He was a sole survivor of the concentration camp and wore a mask to hide his injury.

HandofShadows
2012-08-07, 05:29 AM
V was the result of the horrible civilization's downfall since
He was a sole survivor of the concentration camp and wore a mask to hide his injury.

He was the only surviror of the camp only because be broke out/blew the place up.
For those that don't know V was a test subject for some chemical research (shades of WWII Deaths camps) and was driven quite insane. But either throught the chemicals or his insanity he seems able have gained something. He seems to have developed a genius level intelligence and near super human strength. Remember he killed a guard by making holes in him with his fingers? :smalleek:

HandofShadows
2012-08-07, 05:41 AM
Yes, I admit that the lengths the universe/writers went to to undo all his work again and again got pretty silly, but the way he bounces back every time with barely a break in his stride is part of what's so awesome. Not to mention DAT FINALE.

The end of the series is what kinda takes Lelouch off the list. He knew what he was doing was wrong and set things up to get himself killed for the crimes he commited and to finish freeing the world. In many ways Lelouch was in a situation where there where no good moral choices. Just bad ones and worse ones.

Xondoure
2012-08-07, 10:36 AM
The end of the series is what kinda takes Lelouch off the list. He knew what he was doing was wrong and set things up to get himself killed for the crimes he commited and to finish freeing the world. In many ways Lelouch was in a situation where there where no good moral choices. Just bad ones and worse ones.

His actions are some of the most heavily debated in like, all of anime. I say that makes him morally ambiguous.

Kitten Champion
2012-08-07, 01:40 PM
Orihara Izaya gets my prize for morally ambiguous rebel, he gets all my prizes..

Dr.Epic
2012-08-07, 02:06 PM
Mugen from Samurai Champloo was pretty awesome. Also, I personally loved Greed from the first FMA anime. Shame he only got decent screen time in like 5 episodes.

Mr.Silver
2012-08-07, 03:28 PM
Orihara Izaya gets my prize for morally ambiguous rebel, he gets all my prizes..

I'm not really sure he counts as a rebel. I mean, yeah he's kind of an outsider but then that's true for almost the entire cast to some degree. I'm also kind of struggling to come up with many positive moral traits and/or motives the guy has.

Kitten Champion
2012-08-07, 04:49 PM
I'm not really sure he counts as a rebel. I mean, yeah he's kind of an outsider but then that's true for almost the entire cast to some degree. I'm also kind of struggling to come up with many positive moral traits and/or motives the guy has.

I think he's rebelling against most of everything.

He's certainly a sociopath, but he's no more evil than good. I suppose you could say he's a modern interpretation of Lucifer from paradise lost. Morally ambiguous doesn't just mean heroes with tragic flaws.

Cespenar
2012-08-08, 01:12 AM
Orihara Izaya gets my prize for morally ambiguous rebel, he gets all my prizes..

IIIIIIZAAAAYAAAAA! :smalltongue:

Man I love the ham.

Though I'm not sure if he's morally ambiguous. He's more morally... invisible, or something.

HandofShadows
2012-08-08, 04:21 AM
Though I'm not sure if he's morally ambiguous. He's more morally... invisible, or something.

Morally transparent maybe? Really, does he have any sort of morals? :smallconfused:

Mr.Silver
2012-08-08, 08:04 AM
I think he's rebelling against most of everything.

He's a rebel insofar as he doesn't conform to social norms, not a rebel in the sense of actively fighting against anything. Again, this is true of most of the cast.


He's certainly a sociopath, but he's no more evil than good. I suppose you could say he's a modern interpretation of Lucifer from paradise lost. Morally ambiguous doesn't just mean heroes with tragic flaws.
No, but neither does it mean amoral, which is what Izaya pretty much is. The only ambiguity there is about whether or not there's even a point in trying to analyse his ethics, given that he seems to be completely uninterested in the concept himself.

Avilan the Grey
2012-08-08, 08:09 AM
I don't do morally ambiguous Rebels. They annoy me with their grey / gray morality, so I tend to kill them all, preferably with fire. :smallbiggrin:

Now Anti-heroes on the other hand...! :smalltongue:

Mr.Silver
2012-08-09, 02:57 PM
Now Anti-heroes on the other hand...! :smalltongue:

What if the anti-hero is a rebel? :smalltongue:

darkblade
2012-08-09, 06:00 PM
How is Simon morally ambigous?


This. He created a society fair for both humans and beastmen and then explicitly made the right choice in reigning in Spiral Power after promising the Antispiral he would do just that.

But anyway, +1 for Lelouch.

The fact that we were never given convincing reasons to believe the Anti-Spirals were wrong about Spiral Power destroying the universe. Yes he reigned it in by the end but considering how absurd they were taking the mecha by final battle there was a good chance that they could have killed the universe at any point before that.

HandofShadows
2012-08-10, 03:54 AM
If Simon had a chance of killing the Universe during the last fight, the Anti-Spiral certainly wuld have said something. Spiral power can destroy the universe, but it would take a lot more than what we see in the series and a lot more time.

Nerd-o-rama
2012-08-11, 12:26 PM
I'm pretty sure part of the reason the Anti-Spiral were having that showdown in their own personal private dimension was so that the absurd energy involved wouldn't utterly wreck anything. The other, larger part was so that they would be omnipotent, but we see how well that worked out for them.

Kato
2012-08-12, 04:28 AM
Orihara Izaya gets my prize for morally ambiguous rebel, he gets all my prizes..

Well, I never read the VN but... I can't see him as anything else than a self-centered jerk from the anime. Just being against laws and not being an utter evil overlord doesn't make you a morally ambigious rebel...


As for the initial five... I have about no knowledge of V and not too much about Skyrim but... I love Lelouch and everything but I'll just go ahead and say Amon, because I actually liked a lot about his plot even if at the end things were... kind of going wrong the idea behind it all really got me.

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/151/6/d/join_the_equalists_today_by_kasonsama-d51qotd.png

Fiery Diamond
2012-08-13, 04:33 PM
What if the anti-hero is a rebel? :smalltongue:

Say hello to Yuan from Tales of Symphonia! Anti-hero who is a rebel leader while also being one of the seconds to the Big Bad... which is who he was rebelling against.

That's a good game. Also because of that game, Kratos will forever mean Kratos Aurion, not the god of war.

mangosta71
2012-08-14, 12:07 PM
Someone mentioned the Mistborn trilogy in another thread, and it brought to my mind Kelsier. As the leader of an anti-establishment group, he certainly qualifies as a rebel. And while he's good-intentioned, his lack of mercy for the people that aren't ready to toss their shackles off could be considered morally ambiguous. Especially as you learn in the second and third books in the trilogy that everything the Lord Ruler did was to motivated by a desire to keep the world from ending.

Quayleman
2012-08-14, 11:11 PM
[QUOTE=mangosta71;13725469]Someone mentioned the Mistborn trilogy in another thread, and it brought to my mind Kelsier. As the leader of an anti-establishment group, he certainly qualifies as a rebel. And while he's good-intentioned, his lack of mercy for the people that aren't ready to toss their shackles off could be considered morally ambiguous.

Man I was just about to post Kelsier. What does it for me is that he has absolutely no plan for what to do after overthrowing the lord ruler.

in fact, he doesn't have a very good plan of overthrowing the lord ruler at all. He meticulously plans how to sieze the capital city, even going as far as using his death to instigate a peasant revolt, but he had absolutely no idea how to oust the lord ruler. And he knew that there was no way a revolution could be sucessful if the lord ruler kept power, knew he could never match the lord ruler, yet jeopardized his crew and the entire city anyway.