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View Full Version : The Legend of Korra IV: This Thread Has the Admiral Zhao Seal of Approval



Herpestidae
2012-08-02, 06:27 PM
This is a thread for the discussion of The Legend of Korra, where the eponymous heroine is the spiritual reincarnation of the Avatar, a being with the ability to control, or bend, four elements, and will bring balance to the world.

Previously on the Legend of Korra:

Fans complain about Mako, Bolin gets no love, and A. Firebender is still at large.

Also, Korra's going into the spirit world for some reason.

Now let's start this thread off by breaking everyone's heart:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4quojcQLz1qk19lso1_500.gif


Other Fan works of interest:

Seal of Approval: One (http://rufftoon.deviantart.com/#/d4vvis4), Two (http://rufftoon.deviantart.com/art/Seal-of-Approval-Part-Deux-295700123?q=gallery%3Anoselfcontrol%2F72693&qo=0)
I can bend! (http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt310/Kobold-Bard/1339857858175.jpg)



Previous threads:


Legend of Korra: Will it Bend! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239010)
Legend of Korra II: Brought to you by Flameo Instant Noodles! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242399)
Legend of Korra III: In Hono(u)r of the Victims of A. Firebender. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245393)

Pokonic
2012-08-02, 06:44 PM
Annnd, that gif make's me very...sniffly.

thubby
2012-08-02, 07:53 PM
i just thought of something.
it's theoretically possible for an avatar to be the child of another avatar. bet that would be an interesting story.

Anarion
2012-08-02, 08:27 PM
Ooh new Korra thread. I sort of dropped out of the last one after the season finale.


i just thought of something.
it's theoretically possible for an avatar to be the child of another avatar. bet that would be an interesting story.

This could only happen if the avatar in question perished before the child was born or during childbirth. So it would be a story of a child growing up with a single mother or father, or perhaps even as an orphan. The child would likely never learn until much later that he or she was actually the child of the former avatar, the same way that Aang wasn't supposed to be told he was the avatar until he was old enough.

thubby
2012-08-02, 08:49 PM
Ooh new Korra thread. I sort of dropped out of the last one after the season finale.



This could only happen if the avatar in question perished before the child was born or during childbirth. So it would be a story of a child growing up with a single mother or father, or perhaps even as an orphan. The child would likely never learn until much later that he or she was actually the child of the former avatar, the same way that Aang wasn't supposed to be told he was the avatar until he was old enough.

assuming its a matter of a single parent, not knowing they are the child of the avatar would mean not being told about their father basically at all and then finding out about it potentially from the previous avatar himself. which has potential.
(im going to assume the avatar would be male because the whole pregnancy/death thing is less finicky)

or they'd know all along and have this great legacy to live up to before they found out and there's a whole mess of potential stories and...
*runs off to write fanfiction*

Herpestidae
2012-08-02, 09:17 PM
I like the idea of them knowing that they're the son/daughter of the previous Avatar early on, just not that they're the current Avatar.

INoKnowNames
2012-08-02, 09:20 PM
This would make a pretty interesting story, actually.....

Though I'm still trying to catch up to the real one, but I'm still having trouble finding it online... when am I supposed to be catching Korra on Tv (assuming I can find my remote somewhere)?

oblivion6
2012-08-02, 09:25 PM
This would make a pretty interesting story, actually.....

Though I'm still trying to catch up to the real one, but I'm still having trouble finding it online... when am I supposed to be catching Korra on Tv (assuming I can find my remote somewhere)?

not entirely sure. i know my cable company has the last few on-demand but not sure when it will be on nick again

lord_khaine
2012-08-03, 06:29 AM
This could only happen if the avatar in question perished before the child was born or during childbirth. So it would be a story of a child growing up with a single mother or father, or perhaps even as an orphan. The child would likely never learn until much later that he or she was actually the child of the former avatar, the same way that Aang wasn't supposed to be told he was the avatar until he was old enough.

No, this in theory might be possibel if the previous avatar was dead before the mother got pregnant, but even then its both debatable and a bit icky.

So i dont think this is realistic in any way.

Herpestidae
2012-08-03, 09:02 AM
No, this in theory might be possibel if the previous avatar was dead before the mother got pregnant, but even then its both debatable and a bit icky.

So i dont think this is realistic in any way.

This would mean that the avatar spirit knows when its current host will die. There's no proof of that at all.

t209
2012-08-03, 09:31 AM
I wonder when will second season come out?
I read that the first season was meant to be a mini series.
Which could be a reason why it ended so early (Amon and Tarrlock's death and Korra regains her power.
P.S- Was it me or I find Korra hotter than asami.

Kris on a Stick
2012-08-03, 09:40 AM
No, this in theory might be possibel if the previous avatar was dead before the mother got pregnant, but even then its both debatable and a bit icky.

So i dont think this is realistic in any way.

Sperm can survive for up to 6 days inside the womb before coming across an egg.

Which is irrelevant anyway, since "The Avatar and the Firelord" seems to imply that Aang was born at the very instant that Roku died, meaning that the Avatar Spirit seems to pass on to a new vessel at birth, rather than conception.

endoperez
2012-08-03, 03:25 PM
I like the idea of them knowing that they're the son/daughter of the previous Avatar early on, just not that they're the current Avatar.

Furthermore, a water tribe Avatar can learn to bend fire before water, and an air nomad avatar can have a water tribe child.

So, in theory, the child of the old (say, earth nation) Avatar could learn earthbending first, and not realize he's the new fire nation avatar. Recognizing the avatar includes tests like checking if the child prefers the old incarnation's toys, and the earth nation avatar might have given his or her favourite toys to the child already...

Yeah, it could get pretty complicated.

lord_khaine
2012-08-03, 04:09 PM
This would mean that the avatar spirit knows when its current host will die. There's no proof of that at all.

No, this would mean that the current avatar would need to die, before a new one can be created.

What you are talking about i have no idea....


Sperm can survive for up to 6 days inside the womb before coming across an egg.

Which is irrelevant anyway, since "The Avatar and the Firelord" seems to imply that Aang was born at the very instant that Roku died, meaning that the Avatar Spirit seems to pass on to a new vessel at birth, rather than conception.

Cant recall what he says there, but it just might be Roku simplifying things for Aang.

Because if not, it would mean that babies dont have a spirit before they are born.

Dr.Epic
2012-08-03, 04:15 PM
Now let's start this thread off by breaking everyone's heart:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4quojcQLz1qk19lso1_500.gif

:smalleek:

So you're saying Mako's got some competition?

Grey Watcher
2012-08-03, 04:25 PM
No, this would mean that the current avatar would need to die, before a new one can be created.

What you are talking about i have no idea....



Cant recall what he says there, but it just might be Roku simplifying things for Aang.

Because if not, it would mean that babies dont have a spirit before they are born.

It's not what he says, but as we're watching flashbacks/spirit world playbacks/whatever it is that allows the show's team to show, rather than tell, Roku and Sozin's backstory, we see Roku choking to death on volcanic ash, everything fades to white, and the next thing we see is baby Aang, having just been born, strongly implying that the Avatar spirit went immediately from Roku's dying body on that volcano to Aang's body being born in one of the Air Temples.

thubby
2012-08-03, 04:27 PM
Cant recall what he says there, but it just might be Roku simplifying things for Aang.

Because if not, it would mean that babies dont have a spirit before they are born.

and? that's not an unreasonable way for their... would that be cosmology? to work.

Herpestidae
2012-08-03, 05:02 PM
No, this would mean that the current avatar would need to die, before a new one can be created.

Yes and no.

I'm not so sure about the next Avatar being born *instantly* as the previous one dies (possible, I just have no solid proof. Roku's flashbacks skipped years, after all), but neither do I believe that it takes a whole nine months. I'd say it's about a week, maybe two. If such is the case, it would either mean that:


The Avatar Spirit goes around searching for a child of the proper nation/bending talent that will be born in a week or two and enters it before birth.
The Avatar Spirit is precognitive, and knows when the current Avatar is going to die as well as the identity of a child of the proper nation/bending talent that will be born soon after the current one dies.


By virtue of Occam's Razor, Option 1 makes more sense. Unless the Spirit World Exists outside of time, or something (which we have no proof of, so yes, Occam's Razor).


Cant recall what he says there, but it just might be Roku simplifying things for Aang.

Because if not, it would mean that babies dont have a spirit before they are born.

Korra has a distinct spirit Aang, who has a distinct spirit from Roku, who has a distinct spirit from Kyoshi, etc. The Avatar Spirit is the conglomerate of all the spirits of the Avatar, which will include the current one when he/she dies.

Kd7sov
2012-08-03, 09:04 PM
Unless the Spirit World Exists outside of time, or something (which we have no proof of, so yes, Occam's Razor).

As a matter of fact, I'd hold that we have evidence (though not proof) to the contrary: Sokka appears to have experienced the biological processes of about twenty-four hours when he was kidnapped to the Spirit World for a day just before the winter solstice.

Randomguy
2012-08-04, 01:27 AM
I wonder when will second season come out?

Sometime in 2013. :frown:

Does anyone think that Katara might die sometime during the series? The "mentor" character often gets killed off somehow, and it might happen because of old age, which might be allowed in a kids show.

Anarion
2012-08-04, 02:31 AM
It's not what he says, but as we're watching flashbacks/spirit world playbacks/whatever it is that allows the show's team to show, rather than tell, Roku and Sozin's backstory, we see Roku choking to death on volcanic ash, everything fades to white, and the next thing we see is baby Aang, having just been born, strongly implying that the Avatar spirit went immediately from Roku's dying body on that volcano to Aang's body being born in one of the Air Temples.

I have to agree with this one. I can't speak to when the baby's spirit is formed in the Avatar cosmology, but this visual scene strongly implies that the Avatar spirit passes on when the child is born.

I also note that if the Avatar spirit does not transfer instantly and has to spend time somewhere else while it's looking for a new host, that would potentially be a period of significant vulnerability for the entire Avatar cycel.


Sometime in 2013. :frown:

Does anyone think that Katara might die sometime during the series? The "mentor" character often gets killed off somehow, and it might happen because of old age, which might be allowed in a kids show.

No not really. She hasn't been mentoring Korra directly and she's very popular as a character. She could die of old age at some point, but since she's not even with Korra the whole time it would require the additional coincidence of Korra and Katara being in the same place when Katara took a turn for the worse.

Rockphed
2012-08-04, 03:06 AM
Yes and no.

I'm not so sure about the next Avatar being born *instantly* as the previous one dies (possible, I just have no solid proof. Roku's flashbacks skipped years, after all), but neither do I believe that it takes a whole nine months. I'd say it's about a week, maybe two. If such is the case, it would either mean that:


The Avatar Spirit goes around searching for a child of the proper nation/bending talent that will be born in a week or two and enters it before birth.
The Avatar Spirit is precognitive, and knows when the current Avatar is going to die as well as the identity of a child of the proper nation/bending talent that will be born soon after the current one dies.


By virtue of Occam's Razor, Option 1 makes more sense. Unless the Spirit World Exists outside of time, or something (which we have no proof of, so yes, Occam's Razor).

Well, it could, theoretically, take up to 9 months to find a suitable kid. Maybe more if it determined that all the kids currently in the womb were unsuitable. It might even end up doing the whole matchmaker thing just to get a suitable kid conceived. Now isn't that an interesting story idea.


Korra has a distinct spirit Aang, who has a distinct spirit from Roku, who has a distinct spirit from Kyoshi, etc. The Avatar Spirit is the conglomerate of all the spirits of the Avatar, which will include the current one when he/she dies.

Personally, I figured there are 8 of them (a male and female of each element), but then we saw something like 20 of them at the end of the last Korra episode, so my theory gets nuked that way.

And that comic detailing Korra's father's reaction to his daughter being a firebender is hilarious.

lord_khaine
2012-08-04, 03:29 AM
It's not what he says, but as we're watching flashbacks/spirit world playbacks/whatever it is that allows the show's team to show, rather than tell, Roku and Sozin's backstory, we see Roku choking to death on volcanic ash, everything fades to white, and the next thing we see is baby Aang, having just been born, strongly implying that the Avatar spirit went immediately from Roku's dying body on that volcano to Aang's body being born in one of the Air Temples.

I cant see that implication, when one scene fades into another like that, then we cant know how much time there actualy pass, especaly since the guy suposed to do the noticing is dead.


and? that's not an unreasonable way for their... would that be cosmology? to work.

Actualy it is...


Yes and no.

I'm not so sure about the next Avatar being born *instantly* as the previous one dies (possible, I just have no solid proof. Roku's flashbacks skipped years, after all), but neither do I believe that it takes a whole nine months. I'd say it's about a week, maybe two. If such is the case, it would either mean that:

1: The Avatar Spirit goes around searching for a child of the proper nation/bending talent that will be born in a week or two and enters it before birth.
2: The Avatar Spirit is precognitive, and knows when the current Avatar is going to die as well as the identity of a child of the proper nation/bending talent that will be born soon after the current one dies.


By virtue of Occam's Razor, Option 1 makes more sense. Unless the Spirit World Exists outside of time, or something (which we have no proof of, so yes, Occam's Razor).

You missed option 3, that the AS, after dying, goes though the normal motions of a dying spirit, and then jumps over to the "Inn-tray" for spirit about to enter the world the normal way.


Korra has a distinct spirit Aang, who has a distinct spirit from Roku, who has a distinct spirit from Kyoshi, etc. The Avatar Spirit is the conglomerate of all the spirits of the Avatar, which will include the current one when he/she dies.

No, its all the same guy, they are clearly stated to be past lifes of Aang in tLA, and thats how past lifes work, its the same spirit/soul getting reincarnated again and again.

VanBuren
2012-08-04, 06:43 AM
Actualy it is...

...not.

Seriously though, you're going to have to elaborate if this part of the argument is going to go anywhere. You're claiming that the cosmology doesn't make sense if the soul is "created/inserted/manifested/etc" at birth instead of conception.

Why not?


No, its all the same guy, they are clearly stated to be past lifes of Aang in tLA, and thats how past lifes work, its the same spirit/soul getting reincarnated again and again.

^This.

It's a bit tricky, especially from a western perspective. But my understanding is that, in terms of the eastern spirituality it's drawing from, there is one "soul" being reincarnated, and that each Avatar is simply a different expression of that same soul (Aang and Korra have the same soul, but are not the same people) and that the Avatar State is notably powerful because it summons all those incarnations past and present into being at a single moment in time.

Rockphed
2012-08-04, 12:46 PM
Is being the avatar something that is added on top of a normal soul or is it something inherent in a constantly reincarnated soul? We know that all avatars share something, but do not know what that something is. I'm pretty sure several characters, who might or might not have had any confirmation from a past avatar life, assume it is the second option, but we don't know.

And what is wrong with souls getting assigned a body as the body is born? While my personal cosmology doesn't work quite that way, it is a fairly valid cosmological choice. So is just about any moment from conception until passing the trials of manhood. Well, setting the moment of soul endowment too long after birth can raise problems. If it is a ritual, it opens the way for all sorts of changelings.:smallamused:

Morty
2012-08-04, 01:05 PM
We might actually get some answers about that in the next season, since the writers mentioned something about it exploring the origins of the avatar cycle, I think.
Of course, given the first season's track record of including the things it was supposed to, I'll take it with a pinch of salt.

Grey Watcher
2012-08-04, 01:44 PM
I cant see that implication, when one scene fades into another like that, then we cant know how much time there actualy pass, especaly since the guy suposed to do the noticing is dead.

...

Well, it is only an implication, not a hard statement, like if there happened to be a calendar in view both on that volcano and in the delivery room. It may be that Aang was the Avatar from the very instant he was conceived, and we (the viewers) skipped over nine months of darkness and muffled noises because it would be boring and fail to illustrate the point. But usually Roku narrates us over skipped time, so that might imply that it really happened the way we see it. Given the nature of the show, I doubt the question of when a person gets a soul is going to be resolved by anything other than Word of God. And even then, they might not want to answer due to... reasons.

thubby
2012-08-04, 09:06 PM
Actualy it is...


...because?
setting aside their are real world traditions that hold the soul enters the body with the first breath/at birth/at some period after physical existence. why?

Xondoure
2012-08-05, 01:21 AM
...because?
setting aside their are real world traditions that hold the soul enters the body with the first breath/at birth/at some period after physical existence. why?

Not to mention we go from Roku's death to Aang's first cry. It's sort of implied that the two events happened in instantaneous succession, but there could well have been some time in between that there is simply no Avatar memory of.

dehro
2012-08-05, 02:16 AM
no, I don't like the idea at all..
think about it.. the woman's child would be the man she bedded to conceive him.. talk about embarassing and yukky...inbreeding much?

that point aside, I don't think it's the spirit of the things. right from the get go, the Avatar is all about balance, which is why he reincarnates in a fixed pattern, so that each nation has their go at having an avatar.
2 avatars in the same bloodline? maybe... (edit: come to think of it, it's a must..the next airbender will have to be related to the previous one)
2 avatars that are directly related? hell no, it may be physically possible but I don't klike it, it would be a strong strike to balance, whichever way you look at it.
that said, if they went for it, we'd have possibly an interesting plot..but it would still be a side-plot/personal issue for the main character..on the background of the main event which would necessarily be of a social/planetary/war-and peace variety.. so.. I'd have to wonder how well they'd manage a sideplot of such magnitude, given their recent... disappointing results with sidestories in Korra.

Clertar
2012-08-05, 04:57 AM
Still, given some cirsumstances it could be the only way. Let's imagine the following:

-somehow Aang was the last airbender, but the avatar was really Katara.
-the avatar cycle went water>air

Upon Katara's death, the avatar would need to be either a 5th child of Tenzin's, or a child of one of his children. In either case, the next avatar would have to be in the previous avatar's bloodline.

That's probably too extreme for it to happen very often, though xD

dehro
2012-08-05, 05:04 AM
-somehow Aang was the last airbender, but the avatar was really Katara.


LOL WUT? no, seriously.. I don't get it :smallconfused:

P.S. I edited my previous post.. come the next airbender, s/he will by necessity be of Aang's bloodline, what with Tenzin being the common link to all future airbenders..
that said, it's quite a different thing to say "grand-grand-grand-grand-grandson a few times removed" than it is to say..yeah, I'm my own grandpa (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0s5Kn9QXtU).. let alone my own son.

Xondoure
2012-08-05, 11:10 AM
no, I don't like the idea at all..
think about it.. the woman's child would be the man she bedded to conceive him.. talk about embarassing and yukky...inbreeding much?

that point aside, I don't think it's the spirit of the things. right from the get go, the Avatar is all about balance, which is why he reincarnates in a fixed pattern, so that each nation has their go at having an avatar.
2 avatars in the same bloodline? maybe... (edit: come to think of it, it's a must..the next airbender will have to be related to the previous one)
2 avatars that are directly related? hell no, it may be physically possible but I don't klike it, it would be a strong strike to balance, whichever way you look at it.
that said, if they went for it, we'd have possibly an interesting plot..but it would still be a side-plot/personal issue for the main character..on the background of the main event which would necessarily be of a social/planetary/war-and peace variety.. so.. I'd have to wonder how well they'd manage a sideplot of such magnitude, given their recent... disappointing results with sidestories in Korra.

The only reason I could see it happening in universe is that there is in fact several incidents from RL religion in which this happens. Though obviously due to board rules I won't go farther than that.

As for if they would handle it well... somehow I doubt it.

Calemyr
2012-08-06, 12:54 PM
LOL WUT? no, seriously.. I don't get it :smallconfused:

P.S. I edited my previous post.. come the next airbender, s/he will by necessity be of Aang's bloodline, what with Tenzin being the common link to all future airbenders..
that said, it's quite a different thing to say "grand-grand-grand-grand-grandson a few times removed" than it is to say..yeah, I'm my own grandpa (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0s5Kn9QXtU).. let alone my own son.

I think that's pretty much what Clertar was saying, but rearranging elements in a way that would make it more imminent.

I'd push it a little further. Say the story from the first is pretty much the same, with two little twists - the order of the cycle is reversed, and Katara is the avatar instead. Aang is still the last of his kind. They beat Ozai, they settle down, and get to work on repopulating the air and water tribes.

Say there's a complication, and Katara dies giving birth to their first born, but the baby is saved. Aang is destroyed by the event, and never looks at another woman for the rest of his life, but raises their child to the best of his ability.

There are four outcomes I foresee from that situation:
1) The avatar cycle breaks, since there are no air bending children being born anymore.
2) Another baby somewhere else in the world is born with airbending, planting the seed for the tribe in a new bloodline and a new place. (Edit: This child would be the new Avatar.)
3) Aang's child would be the Avatar, being born immediately upon his mother's death. The Avatar would then be the direct child of the Avatar.
4) Aang's child would go on to raise a family of his own. One of his children would be the Avatar. Then the Avatar would be the grandchild of the Avatar, the world would have gone a generation without an Avatar at all (not even in stasis in the middle of an iceberg), and the Avatar could be a brain damaged, ADD ladies' man specializing in fart bending.

Which of those four cases would be more likely, do you think?

Flickerdart
2012-08-06, 12:57 PM
If there's going to be any spontaneous airbending, it would come from the Avatar themselves. I mean, it's not like Korra used anything she learned from Tenzin when airbending from the first time.

Calemyr
2012-08-06, 01:11 PM
If there's going to be any spontaneous airbending, it would come from the Avatar themselves. I mean, it's not like Korra used anything she learned from Tenzin when airbending from the first time.

I meant (should have clarified) that the newborn airbender would be the Avatar, but born with the genetic aptitude for airbending, such that their children could be airbenders. In effect, it would then be impossible to wipe out any bending tribe entirely, because within a few centuries a new Avatar of that tribe would be born regardless, giving rise to a new bloodline of benders. In such a case, the only way to really end bending in totality would be to completely kill the Avatar, such as when the current one is in the Avatar state.

Clertar
2012-08-06, 02:04 PM
IRT Calemyr:

Very interesting points, you've pretty much raised a siege around the avatar birth issue :P

Still, I think it happens slightly differently, I believe predestination is the key. In the sense that Aang wasn't the avatar because he was born at the same time as Roku's death, but rather since he was bound to be the Avatar, his bond with the existing Avatar tied their death and birth, each of them being one of the two sides of the avatar cycle: yin-yang, body and soul, yielding and pushing, matter and emptiness.

So, given the situation you suggest, I think the answer is that 3 would happen. If Katara wasn't pregnant, then my guess is that there would probably be someone pregnant who had air nomad ancestry, maybe going back some centuries, and the child would be born an airbender and they would be the avatar.

In the less dramatic situation I wrote, whoever ended up being the avatar would have been born at the time of Katara's death (so someone would have become pregnant at the right time for that baby to successfully become the avatar). If that makes sense :smallbiggrin: It's very "magical", but that's how I think it would work, just like with the Dalai Lama: the next Dalai Lama is born when the previous one dies, but it's not a something that gets assigned randomly, since he was always bound to be the next one.

Calemyr
2012-08-06, 02:14 PM
IRT Calemyr:

Very interesting points, you've pretty much raised a siege around the avatar birth issue :P

Still, I think it happens slightly differently, I believe predestination plays an important role in the avatar cycle. In the sense that Aang wasn't the avatar because he was born at the same time as Roku's death, but rather since he was bound to be the Avatar, his bond with the existing Avatar tied their death and birth, each of them was one of the two sides of the avatar cycle: yin-yang, body and soul, yielding and pushing, matter and emptiness.

My option #2 was a logical one. A system in which the Avatar and its bending tribes persist regardless of short term upheaval.

My other three options, and the one you suggest here, are fate-based, and Fate and Logic can never be allowed in the same room. The bickering will drive you mad! Mad I tell you! MAD!!! BWAA HAA HAA HAA HA-ehem. Anyone have any rock candy?


In the less dramatic situation I wrote, whoever ended up being the avatar would have been born at the time of Katara's death (so someone would have become pregnant at the right time for that baby to successfully become the avatar). If that makes sense :smallbiggrin: It's very "magical", but that's how I think it would work, just like with the Dalai Lama: the next Dalai Lama is born when the previous one dies, but it's not a something that gets assigned randomly, since he was always bound to be the next one.

Honestly, I pretty much agree. Avatar is pretty much exactly the same "Golden One" reincarnation cycle trope that seems derived word-for-word from Tibetan Buddhism, so the beliefs of that tradition could be viewed as default rules until canon outright contradicts them.

BRC
2012-08-06, 02:16 PM
I'm interested in how the cosmopolitan nature of Republic City is screwing with the whole "Four Nations" thing. Mako and Bolin demonstrate how two brothers, apparently of mixed Fire Nation/ Earth Kingdom lineage, growing up in a city that is a cultural melting pot, can bend different elements. If element alignment is genetic, then I think republic City is only a few generations away from the point where you can't predict what element RC benders will have because everybody has a little bit of everything.

Man, that would be an Avatar-Finding Nightmare. "Whose next in the Avatar Cycle?" "uhh...Earth", "Okay, we'll need to check all of the earth kingdom, plus every child in Republic City with Earth Kingdom Ancestry" "That's just about all of them sir" "Alright, new plan, we just wait around until we hear about some earthbending kid shooting fireballs"

Clertar
2012-08-06, 02:29 PM
I absolutely agree re. fate and logic :smalltongue:

I edited your (2) into my post, maybe it overlapped with your post. I think it can be both logical and be tied to fate, since that pretty much means "retroactive logic decisions" :smallbiggrin:

Calemyr
2012-08-06, 02:35 PM
I'm interested in how the cosmopolitan nature of Republic City is screwing with the whole "Four Nations" thing. Mako and Bolin demonstrate how two brothers, apparently of mixed Fire Nation/ Earth Kingdom lineage, growing up in a city that is a cultural melting pot, can bend different elements. If element alignment is genetic, then I think republic City is only a few generations away from the point where you can't predict what element RC benders will have because everybody has a little bit of everything.

Man, that would be an Avatar-Finding Nightmare. "Whose next in the Avatar Cycle?" "uhh...Earth", "Okay, we'll need to check all of the earth kingdom, plus every child in Republic City with Earth Kingdom Ancestry" "That's just about all of them sir" "Alright, new plan, we just wait around until we hear about some earthbending kid shooting fireballs"

Oh, that's easy. Establish a scholastic system (they had one in the Fire Nation, at least). Teach bending arts as a sort of Gym class, graded by participation rather than talent. Then you could identify benders easily and if someone proves skilled in multiple disciplines, you likely have an Avatar.


I absolutely agree re. fate and logic :smalltongue:

I edited your (2) into my post, maybe it overlapped with your post. I think it can be both logical and be tied to fate, since that pretty much means "retroactive logic decisions" :smallbiggrin:

Heh. Question, though: why is "dyslexic" so hard to spell?

Clertar
2012-08-06, 02:48 PM
Is that a joke? If that's the case, please do tell it xD Well, for me (boring answer) it can be difficult because English is my third language and the spelling of certain words that are pretty much the same sometimes confuses me a wee bit :smallredface:

Calemyr
2012-08-06, 03:46 PM
Is that a joke? If that's the case, please do tell it xD Well, for me (boring answer) it can be difficult because English is my third language and the spelling of certain words that are pretty much the same sometimes confuses me a wee bit :smallredface:

Sorry, didn't consider language as a barrier.

Yes, it is a joke. English is a pretty screwed up language, and there are some ironies that are kinda funny. One of them is that dyslexia, a condition that makes it hard to spell in the first place, is a term that is pretty hard to spell.

Another example: Why is abbreviation such a long word?

Clertar
2012-08-06, 04:17 PM
Hehe right, now I get it! :smallbiggrin:
Sort of like "Why are red apples yellow when they're green?" xD

Flickerdart
2012-08-06, 06:03 PM
Hehe right, now I get it! :smallbiggrin:
Sort of like "Why are red apples yellow when they're green?" xD
Because yellow is made up of green and red.

Math_Mage
2012-08-07, 04:09 PM
Oh, that's easy. Establish a scholastic system (they had one in the Fire Nation, at least). Teach bending arts as a sort of Gym class, graded by participation rather than talent. Then you could identify benders easily and if someone proves skilled in multiple disciplines, you likely have an Avatar.

Getting full participation would be extremely difficult, and making everyone take classes in all the elements when most can't even bend one and the rest only one of four, just to find the one person who can bend more than one, seems like a huge waste of resources.

Calemyr
2012-08-07, 04:44 PM
Getting full participation would be extremely difficult, and making everyone take classes in all the elements when most can't even bend one and the rest only one of four, just to find the one person who can bend more than one, seems like a huge waste of resources.

Ah, but it's not about forcing to waste 3/4 of the class, it's about teaching benders to work together, and about their respective strengths and weaknesses. And how to work with non-benders.

Besides, it was never meant to be easy, just a functional way you could still secretly track the Avatar even in a melting pot society.

MLai
2012-08-07, 09:15 PM
Dude you don't teach martial arts in a school of didactic learning. That's unheard of. You go to school to learn books. You want martial arts you go to a martial arts school/dojo/temple.

I mean this from an Asian POV. In Chinese, the word for martial and the word for scholastic are pretty much antonyms.

t209
2012-08-07, 09:18 PM
How many of you felt creepy when you watched Hook
and Dante Basco's final word "I wish I had a dad like you" since we now know him as a guy who voiced Zuko, who had a abusive father. Hooked was released before The Last Airbender but it's kinda creepy after seeing the Last Airbender.
I kinda look at TV Trope (after seeing the movie) and discovered that Dante Basco played as Rufio (new leader of the Lost Boys).

MLai
2012-08-07, 09:25 PM
1. You mean Hook.
2. Character's name was Rufio.
3. Oh, that kid is Dante Basco? Funny how his voice hasn't changed in 20 years.

endoperez
2012-08-08, 12:11 AM
Dude you don't teach martial arts in a school of didactic learning. That's unheard of. You go to school to learn books. You want martial arts you go to a martial arts school/dojo/temple.

I mean this from an Asian POV. In Chinese, the word for martial and the word for scholastic are pretty much antonyms.

Which words are you thinking of? I've studied a bit of Chinese, so I'm kinda interested in this. I don't know how antonyms work in Chinese. I only found these two:

武 - martial, warlike, used in words wushu (martial arts) and wuxia (wushia, the genre of fiction and a term for the gentlemen-warriors that star in them).
I don't understand the etymology, but it might be a person carrying a sword.

学 - to study, academic
A child or a person under a roof. Above the roof, there's something of which etymological origins I'm not certain. Could be rain, star, just a roof...

武学 is a martial arts school or martial education

Also, two of the ancient six arts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Arts) were martial, and they were the basis of the Imperial Chinese education system for at least 1000 years.

VanBuren
2012-08-08, 09:18 AM
Dude you don't teach martial arts in a school of didactic learning. That's unheard of. You go to school to learn books. You want martial arts you go to a martial arts school/dojo/temple.

I mean this from an Asian POV. In Chinese, the word for martial and the word for scholastic are pretty much antonyms.

So... all the wise sages that kept telling me that I needed to train the body to train the mind were actually Asian-American?

Alright, "Kung Pow Express", VanBuren wants his money back.

Grey Watcher
2012-08-08, 11:05 AM
How many of you felt creepy when you watched Hook
and Dante Basco's final word "I wish I had a dad like you" since we now know him as a guy who voiced Zuko, who had a abusive father. Hooked was released before The Last Airbender but it's kinda creepy after seeing the Last Airbender.
I kinda look at TV Trope (after seeing the movie) and discovered that Dante Basco played as Rufio (new leader of the Lost Boys).

Yeah, I remember wryly observing to someone a while back that "Man, Dante Basco just isn't allowed to play anyone with a healthy relationship with his father." Here's hoping Iroh II breaks with tradition, since Mako's got the Angsty Teen angle pretty well covered.

Ramza00
2012-08-08, 11:24 AM
I know this is a silly question, and it may be hard for some like choosing your favorite kid...

But reading the Legend of Korra thread and the Syndrome thread caused me to realize the "technique similarities" and some of the ideology between Amon and Syndrome.

So which is better as an entertainment as a whole.

The Legend of Korra
vs
The Incredibles

dehro
2012-08-08, 01:18 PM
I know this is a silly question, and it may be hard for some like choosing your favorite kid...

But reading the Legend of Korra thread and the Syndrome thread caused me to realize the "technique similarities" and some of the ideology between Amon and Syndrome.

So which is better as an entertainment as a whole.

The Legend of Korra
vs
The Incredibles

the incredibles
it would be a harder call to make if you'd listed Atla instead of TLoK

Clertar
2012-08-08, 04:47 PM
Dude you don't teach martial arts in a school of didactic learning. That's unheard of. You go to school to learn books. You want martial arts you go to a martial arts school/dojo/temple.

I mean this from an Asian POV. In Chinese, the word for martial and the word for scholastic are pretty much antonyms.

I'm not so sure of that. In Chinese, martial is 武 (wu3), as in 武术 (wu3shu2), "martial technique/skill". I don't know what you were thinking about for "scholar" in Chinese, but it would either be something like 學家 (xue4jia1) or similar, with 學 xue4 "to study" as its root word. As other people have pointed out, there doesn't seem to be any antonimy...

Also, in fiction, martial artists have often been portrayed as fighters scholars/ philosophers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_9Px41FOGY&feature=player_detailpage#t=545s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0suOeUFQ4h8&feature=player_detailpage#t=1014s

You don't have to look in modern wuxia films, just look at Journey to the West :smallwink:

Madara
2012-08-08, 10:01 PM
I was rewatching some old episodes, and then the Chibi miniseries. This brought a question to mind, who can bend lava(Molten rock)?

1. Earthbenders(It is stone, afterall)
2. Waterbenders(Its in a liquid form)
3. Firebenders(Its heated up with energy and burning hot)


We saw both Katara and Toph bending the mud when the drill was attacking Ba Sing Se, but I'm not sure if it took their combined effort to move a combined element or if they were each able to do it. Thoughts?

Fjolnir
2012-08-08, 10:16 PM
Technically one was backing the water up and the other started pushing the dirt back in. The dirt was simply not falling out because it was flowing with the water, though it was leaking out the bottom of the sluice at a slightly lower rate than it would have. When toph gets involved the mud dripping out the bottom stops, implying that she is moving that wet dirt back in.

Lava is an advanced earth technique I would guess, there is an example of lavabending by Avatar Kyoshi in Avatar day, but she uses the avatar state to do it.

thubby
2012-08-08, 10:20 PM
katara and toph get in a mud fight later in the series. they can both bend it. would have been funny to see one of them bend the mud, and the other try to block only for the part they cant bend to hit them in the face.

i would imagine lava bending is earth bending, but uses particular forms more like water bending.

Douglas
2012-08-08, 10:21 PM
1. Earthbenders(It is stone, afterall)
Yes.

2. Waterbenders(Its in a liquid form)
No. It's waterbending, not liquidbending.

3. Firebenders(Its heated up with energy and burning hot)
I don't think so. Firebenders would be able to heat it up more or cool it down (possibly making it solid again), but moving things that are hot rather than just the heat itself has never been shown as a feature of firebending.

Edit: Wait, what Roku did in destroying the fire temple might qualify, but it's not completely clear. Also, he's the Avatar so that part could have been earthbending, though he was solidly in primary firebending mode at the time. So I'd call this one a "maybe".


We saw both Katara and Toph bending the mud when the drill was attacking Ba Sing Se, but I'm not sure if it took their combined effort to move a combined element or if they were each able to do it. Thoughts?
Each was able to move the portion of the mixture that was her own element. Due to how the two were mixed together this tended to bring the other along for the ride in the same way that an earthbender moving a big rock also moves anything that happens to be on top of that rock.

Fjolnir
2012-08-08, 10:46 PM
so Roku and Kyoshi both lava bend, I assume it to be an earthbending technique until otherwise informed though...

Rockphed
2012-08-09, 12:21 AM
Yeah, I remember wryly observing to someone a while back that "Man, Dante Basco just isn't allowed to play anyone with a healthy relationship with his father." Here's hoping Iroh II breaks with tradition, since Mako's got the Angsty Teen angle pretty well covered.

Yeah, I hope Admiral Iroh is boss.

Though I do wonder why they have 3 firebenders in their little clique.

Kris on a Stick
2012-08-09, 12:35 AM
I have no source for this, so take it with a grain of salt, but I recall reading somewhere (perhaps a Bryke interview?) that lavabending requires both Earthbending and Firebending to perform, meaning that it is a technique unique to the Avatar.

Xondoure
2012-08-09, 01:17 AM
I was rewatching some old episodes, and then the Chibi miniseries. This brought a question to mind, who can bend lava(Molten rock)?

1. Earthbenders(It is stone, afterall)
2. Waterbenders(Its in a liquid form)
3. Firebenders(Its heated up with energy and burning hot)


We saw both Katara and Toph bending the mud when the drill was attacking Ba Sing Se, but I'm not sure if it took their combined effort to move a combined element or if they were each able to do it. Thoughts?

"even the boundaries between the four elements is an illusion." To quote Guru Pathik. My guess? Earth technique that would require an understanding of fire bending and knowledge of water bending forms.

dehro
2012-08-09, 05:09 AM
I have no source for this, so take it with a grain of salt, but I recall reading somewhere (perhaps a Bryke interview?) that lavabending requires both Earthbending and Firebending to perform, meaning that it is a technique unique to the Avatar.

I seem to remember Sozin doing his bit bending a vulcano..

thubby
2012-08-09, 05:14 AM
I seem to remember Sozin doing his bit bending a vulcano..

all i can recall him doing is cooling the lava, never physically moving it.

Kd7sov
2012-08-09, 08:25 AM
all i can recall him doing is cooling the lava, never physically moving it.

But neither did Roku, which suggests it may be lost knowledge. (Or possibly Roku was groggy and not thinking entirely straight...)

Kris on a Stick
2012-08-09, 08:36 PM
Where the Avatar is concerned, there is no such thing as 'lost knowledge', given that he can access the memories of all the Avatars before him.

Also we see Roku bending lava when he destroys the Fire Temple in 'The Winter Solstice, part 2'.

Also also, had a glance at the wiki - apparently the official word on lavabending comes from the 'Avatar Extras' on 'The Avatar State'.

Sith_Happens
2012-08-10, 05:54 AM
So a few weeks ago I went to a live recording of The Nerdist Podcast (http://www.nerdist.com/podcast/nerdist/), hosted by Chris Hardwick. Since Hardwick is the voice of Sokka in LoK, I took the opportunity to ask him whether we can expect any more Sokka. He said he's "not been asked to do anything more yet," which at the very least means "not in Book 2.":smallfrown:

Kd7sov
2012-08-10, 08:22 AM
Where the Avatar is concerned, there is no such thing as 'lost knowledge', given that he can access the memories of all the Avatars before him.

Also we see Roku bending lava when he destroys the Fire Temple in 'The Winter Solstice, part 2'.

Also also, had a glance at the wiki - apparently the official word on lavabending comes from the 'Avatar Extras' on 'The Avatar State'.

Indeed? An Avatar can speak to his past selves, but I don't know of any indication that he automatically knows anything. Aang had to be told about the comet, and about Koh, and about energybending (which, assuming Avatars were around when elemental bending started happening, at least the early ones should have been well aware of). Korra took a long time to really get the air and spirituality that her immediate predecessor had been good at.

Kris on a Stick
2012-08-10, 11:19 AM
Not automatically. And certainly not before becoming a fully realized Avatar, which Aang and Korra were not, in the examples you give. But afterwards, certainly, provided unlimited free access to the Avatar State. Seeing as the explicit purpose of the Avatar state is to give the current Avatar the "skills and knowledge of all the past Avatars."

Kd7sov
2012-08-10, 02:22 PM
Ah, right; I'd forgotten that detail, and thought it was just about total bending power.

thubby
2012-08-10, 05:42 PM
Indeed? An Avatar can speak to his past selves, but I don't know of any indication that he automatically knows anything. Aang had to be told about the comet, and about Koh, and about energybending (which, assuming Avatars were around when elemental bending started happening, at least the early ones should have been well aware of). Korra took a long time to really get the air and spirituality that her immediate predecessor had been good at.

at least the avatar state lets them use old knowledge. but i assumed roku tried to avoid using it for fear of getting it accidentally killed

MLai
2012-08-11, 02:04 AM
So that canon picture of the adult ATLA gaang is just a tease? No extended flashback episodes of adult gaang in the 'Spirit' season? :smallconfused:

Morty
2012-08-11, 04:34 PM
Regarding the discussion about the future Avatars and Airbending... we still don't know if new Airbenders could emerge from people unrelated to Tenzin and therefore Aang. I think it'd make sense if they could, but it doesn't seem to be the case. Of course, the origins of bending itself remain murky - at some point, the four nations and four bending styles had to form. It's possible that Book 2 will shed some light on it, but I remain skeptical.

CarpeGuitarrem
2012-08-11, 08:38 PM
Yeah, I hope Admiral Iroh is boss.

Though I do wonder why they have 3 firebenders in their little clique.
The moment that Admiral Iroh opened his mouth...my jaw dropped.

Sith_Happens
2012-08-12, 01:52 AM
The moment that Admiral Iroh opened his mouth...my jaw dropped.

Don't forget the moment he used a freaking firebending jet pack.

CarpeGuitarrem
2012-08-12, 08:01 PM
Don't forget the moment he used a freaking firebending jet pack.
Well yeah. He just started getting more AWESOME.

VanBuren
2012-08-12, 08:36 PM
The moment that Admiral Iroh opened his mouth...my jaw dropped.

Mine too. Totally didn't fit the character...


...he's still pretty awesome though.

Sith_Happens
2012-08-12, 10:27 PM
Mine too. Totally didn't fit the character...


...he's still pretty awesome though.

(Image:)
That awkward moment--

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7fc3vP6z41rapygho1_500.jpg