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View Full Version : Bottle ALL the things! "Collector" 3.5 base class (PEACH)



Qwertystop
2012-08-06, 09:43 PM
Collector
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+0|+0|+2|+2|Bottling

2nd|+1|+0|+3|+3|Glassblower

3rd|+2|+1|+3|+3|Rapid Bottling

4th|+3|+1|+4|+4|Glassblower

5th|+3|+1|+4|+4|Collector's Intuition

6th|+4|+2|+5|+5|Better Bottle

7th|+5|+2|+5|+5|Rapid Bottling

8th|+6/+1|+2|+6|+6|Glassblower

9th|+6/+1|+3|+6|+6|Collector's Intuition

10th|+7/+2|+3|+7|+7|Better Bottle

11th|+8/+3|+3|+7|+7|Rapid Bottling

12th|+9/+4|+4|+8|+8|Glassblower

13th|+9/+4|+4|+8|+8|Collector's Intuition

14th|+10/+5|+4|+9|+9|Better Bottle

15th|+11/+6/+1|+5|+9|+9|Rapid Bottling

16th|+12/+7/+2|+5|+10|+10|Glassblower

17th|+12/+7/+2|+5|+10|+10|Collector's Intuition

18th|+13/+8/+3|+6|+11|+11|Better Bottle

19th|+14/+9/+4|+6|+11|+11|Rapid Bottling

20th|+15/+10/+5|+6|+12|+12|Capstone to follow
[/table]
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: 1d6

Class Skills:
The collector's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (glassblowing) (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Proficiencies:
A Collector has proficiency with all simple weapons and light armor, as well as one martial weapon of his choice.

Class Abilites:
Bottling (Su): A Collector's main ability is their ability to take objects and put them into special glass bottles. Bottles used for this ability are Fine sized. Any glass bottle of the appropriate size can be used by a Collector, but the Collector must prepare it. This is a process that takes one minute. The collector can prepare as many bottles at one time as he can carry.

At first level, a Collector can bottle any solid nonliving inanimate object of up to Medium size, or a volume of liquid or gas taking up no more than a 5' cube. This is a full-round action. As another full-round action, he can unbottle the content of any one bottle in his possession, expanding it to its full size and placing it in a square adjacent to him, or in his grasp. If a bottle is broken, the contents take 2d6 slashing damage from the shards of glass and are unbottled in a random adjacent space space.

In any situation in which the Collector could cast a spell without a Concentration check (if he was a spellcaster, and not casting defensively), he will always select the bottle he intends to. Otherwise, he must make a Concentration check to keep his focus and select the right bottle. for the purpose of the DC of this check, the spell level is equivalent to (4 - the number of Collector's Intuitions the Collector has). If the check is failed, a random bottle is opened. The Collector uses Intelligence for this check, instead of Constitution.


From outside a bottle, the thing bottled in that bottle appears to be two size categories smaller than the bottle.

From the inside, a bottle appears to be two size categories larger than the thing inside it. Since anything inside a bottle is working from the same reference point as anything else in the bottle, and the D&D system breaks down at sizes that are too small, just treat things inside as their normal size, and the bottle as a really big room that happens to be made of glass.

If anything inside a bottle changes size, the bottle does not change size to match them, but remains (from an interior perspective) two sizes larger than the size of whatever is in it at the moment that thing was bottled.

Bottles are very difficult to destroy from the inside, save for artifact-caused damage and hardness-ignoring attacks. From the inside, they are considered to have a Hardness equal to their Hardness from the outside plus 5.

The cork can be pushed out from inside with a Strength check equal to 10 + half the Collector level of the collector who prepared the bottle.


Glassblower: At second level, the Collector can more easily make his own bottles. Any bottles made by him are now automatically prepared in the process of making them. Also, he now gets a +1 Competence bonus on Craft (Glassblowing) checks.

At fourth level, the Collector can get more out of his tools, and make bottles which are more specialized to his magic. He gets a +2 to Craft (Glassblowing) checks when not using improvised tools. He can also make more durable glass: If he increases the DC of a Craft (Glassblowing) check by 5, the glass he makes with that check has 2 additional Hardness, plus 2 more hardness per point above the DC that he manages

At eight level, the Collector can craft bottles to uncork easily. He can, by increasing the DC of a Craft (Glassblowing) check by 5, make a bottle that can be used as a thrown weapon without breaking. Treat a thrown bottle as a splash weapon for the purpose of how to attack with it. When it strikes, its contents are unbottled in the square it hits. If the collector's attack roll result is 15 higher or more than his target's AC, the bottle bounces back in his direction afterwards.

At twelfth level, the Collector does not even need tools, though they do help. He no longer takes a penalty when making a Craft (Glassblowing) check with improvised tools, and can even work without materials. Working without materials is a Supernatural effect.

At sixteenth level, the Collector halves the time it takes to make any Craft (Glassblowing) check.

Rapid Bottling (Su): At 3rd, 7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th levels, the Collector becomes more adept at bottling and unbottling items quickly. At 3rd level, the action to bottle or unbottle becomes a Standard action. At 7th, it becomes a Move action, and unbottling weaponry into one's grasp qualifies as drawing a weapon for any effect that checks for such. At 11th level, it becomes a Swift action, and at 15th an Immediate.

At any level beyond 3rd, the Collector can unbottle up to half his Collector level in bottles simultaneously, but this requires an action as though he was one grade of Rapid Bottling lower than he is (so unbottling three bottles simultaneously at level seven would take a Standard action).

At 19th level, the Collector can unbottle up to his full Collector level in bottles simultaneously, and unbottling multiple bottles can be done as an Immediate action as long as he does not unbottle more than half his collector level in bottles.


Collector's Intuition: By now, the Collector has seen quite a lot of things. This makes it easier to figure things out about other things.

At 5th level, the Collector gains the ability to make Bardic Knowledge checks as a Bard of his Collector level - 4.

At 9th level, the Collector automatically knows whether any object he can see is a magic item. If he inspects a magic item for five rounds, he can make a Spellcraft check to determine something more specific about the item's magic. Treat this as the third round of Detect Magic, plus a vague idea of what the item does if the check succeeds.

At 15th level, the Collector can figure out what just about any magic item does. This requires a full-round action, and has the effect of the Identify spell, but is an Extraordinary ability. It does not work on items with a caster level higher than the Collector's Collector level.

At 19th level, the Identify ability from 15th level can be used on any magic item, and gives a vague idea of the abilities of artifacts.

Better Bottle: For each level that has Better Bottle listed, the Collector gains two things. Firstly, the maximum size of object which he can bottle increases by one category. Secondly, he selects one Better Bottle from the list below.

Spellbottle: A Collector with this ability can store spells in bottles, to be released at a later time. Any spellcaster can cast a spell into a bottle which a Collector holds ready for the spell. When the bottle is opened, the spell is released, with small modifications based on the spell. Spells with a target are targeted by whoever opens the bottle (If they are not expecting a spell to come from the bottle, just put the spell on whatever the bottle is pointing at). Ray spells or other spells which require a ranged attack roll require the bottle-opener to make the ranged attack roll. Spreads spread from the mouth of the bottle. Circular and spherical area-effect spells are treated as cones with double the length of the spell's radius, pointing away from the bottle. Cones and lines are cast as normal.
Lifebottle: A Collector with this ability can bottle living and/or animate things. The bottle provides sufficient air (and, at the Collector's option, food equivalent to that of a Create Food spell of a high enough caster level to feed each contained creature) to anything inside it, but otherwise does not accommodate them. Only willing creatures can be bottled. If a creature is only considered "willing" due to an effect which prevents them from asserting otherwise (such as unconsiousness), but is not actively going along with the Collector's attempt to bottle them, it cannot have Hit Dice greater than (the Collector's Hit Dice * 1.5). The Collector gains his Intelligence bonus toward Diplomacy checks to convince a creature to be bottled (this does not replace his Cha bonus for the check, but supplements it).
Multibottle: With this ability, a Collector can bottle more than one thing in a bottle. All bottle sizing that is relative to the size of the contents of a bottle is now relative to the first thing bottled in that bottle since the last time that bottle was completely emptied.
Shotbottle: With this ability, unbottled items do not need to appear directly in front of the bottle. At the choice of the Collector (made when bottling something), the contents of a bottle can be designated as Firing. In that case, when the bottle is opened, its contents shoot out. Treat this as attacking with a splash weapon for the purpose of figuring out where the contents land on a miss. If whoever opened the bottle was not aiming it at anything in particular, treat the aimed-for square as the square the bottle is in.


Capstone will be added when I think of a capstone.



-------------------------------------------


So, what do you think? Anything need fixing, reworking, etcetera?

General Patton
2012-08-07, 01:10 AM
Bottles are indestructible from the inside, save for artifact-caused damage and hardness-ignoring attacks.
...

Lifebottle: A Collector with this ability can bottle living and/or animate things. The bottle provides sufficient air to anything inside it, but otherwise does not accommodate them. If a Collector tries to bottle something that does not want to be bottled, he must make a melee touch attack roll against it.

I believe this is worse than a save-or-die, and can be used all the time.

Temotei
2012-08-07, 02:27 AM
Class Skills:
Spellcraft, Use Magic Device, Knowledge (All), Concentration, Spot, Search, Craft (Glassblowing)
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

The skills should be in alphabetical order and with the key ability listed after them, like so:

The collector's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (glassblowing) (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), and Use Magic Device (Cha).


Glassblower: ...

...

If the Collector hits an AC 15 higher than that of his target, the bottle bounces back in his direction afterwards.

This should probably be reworded to say "If the collector's attack roll result is 15 higher or more than his target's AC, the bottle..." It's kind of awkward right now citing a nonexistent AC.

Really, there's nothing the collector can do in combat until 6th level, when he can take lifebottle. Then, suddenly, he has a melee touch attack that takes an enemy out of battle with a standard action as per rapid bottling.

Lifebottle is actually better than a save-or-die unless the creature has some hardness-ignoring attack because 1. touch attacks bypass natural armor, usually the main source of AC on monsters and 2. you can later unbottle the creature to use for your own ends or sell it or something.

The problem with the class is it has absolutely nothing to do in combat other than attack (Also, you need weapon and armor proficiencies; I assume at least simple weapons are available.) until 6th level, and then he becomes godlike as he bottles everything up. Even then, though, it's kind of boring. Make melee touch attack, capture creature, wait another turn to do the same thing again. With the action changes in rapid bottling, the collector gets faster at it, but you can still only do it once per round unless you somehow break the action economy (since it doesn't specify that you can opt to change the action to an earlier form, which would be a bad idea anyway).

Amusingly, you can bottle yourself with lifebottle as written. Human cannonball if you get shotbottle, too. :smallamused:

The idea is cool and all, but there has to be something the class can do at every level that's fun, interesting, or at least useful. The best thing I could think of pre-6 (other than UMD) is having your character start off in an inhospitable environment with toxic gases floating around or lava or acid water or something, which is cool, but situational and it depends on what your DM allows.

My suggestion would be to add some sort of contribution in combat pre-6 like the ability to bottle a creature's breathing air so it suffocates unless it makes a Fortitude save or moves a certain distance away from its original position, supernaturally reaching into a creature and bottling its blood or water and dehydrating it or something...anything, really.

Like I said, it's a cool idea, but it needs to be able to do something at all levels. Right now, it basically can make bottles tougher than the average person and captures objects you could just carry around before level 6. After level 6, you get lifebottle and instantly defeat any one creature every round as long as you hit with a touch attack (pretty easy--especially if you build for it, which is the best option for the collector right now) or get spellbottle and have your caster empty his whole reserve of spells into all of your bottles multiple times for an arbitrary amount of spells for days to come while your caster has his spells in addition. It gets crazier when you have multibottle and you can release all of the spells at once or capture an entire army's worth of enemies in one bottle to release later.

So to sum up, there needs to be something at early levels to do (utility, damage, healing, support, crowd control, whatever) and something after 6 needs to happen other than better bottle, since that's all there is. Levels 10, 14, and 18 are good, then, but everything else needs more. Otherwise, you just get good at making bottles and destroying everything instantly or not at all. Contribution all-or-nothing isn't a good thing to have. Tone down lifebottle, spellbottle, and multibottle some.

Those are my thoughts, anyway. It has potential, but it's not there yet.

Qwertystop
2012-08-07, 10:58 AM
Thanks for the comments.
I guess I was very tired last night. I intended to say that the bottle can't be broken from the inside, but the cork can be pushed out with a Strength check.



Also, it seemed to me that the Collector would have plenty of options starting from level 1, specifically the everpresent option of bottling heavy or sharp objects and dropping them on people. You start off able to get objects the size of people, after all. At eighth level, you don't lose the bottle when you do that.

Has anybody here read the book The Source of Magic, by Piers Anthony? Or Night Mare, by the same author? Because I was going for something like Humphrey from that book with this class. That is, most of the combat potential comes from finding stuff that could be useful but is too large to carry conveniently, bottling it, and using it in interesting ways.


EDIT: Made the suggested fixes, and made the bottle not-indestructible from the inside.

Qwertystop
2012-08-08, 08:01 AM
Would it make Lifebottle fairer to make it require a DEX-based melee attack, and if it misses but it would hit Touch, it bottles a piece of armor instead?

QuantumTsochar
2012-08-08, 12:20 PM
I really like the class, but right now it seems a little bit rough around the edges. I'll keep an eye out on this thread.

Now, on to shameless suggestions! :smalltongue:
1.) There should be a cap for the number of active bottles the collector can have. All I need is several bags of holding and I can carry a lake with me at all times. I would flood every dungeon before going in. 50 bottles of maximized fireball? *shutter* I suggest 1 per collector level, but it's up to you.

2.) When I first saw this class on the thread list, I thought "Cool! Now I can drop bears on innocent bystanders!" I feel that lifebottle should be given at an earlier level, since that ability seems to be the reason why someone would pick this class. I like the idea of having to make a melee touch attack (remote bottling of the BBEG seems too much), but I agree with the people above me that the ability seems too powerful as is. Instead of a traditional save (will/fort/reflex), I would have the collector and the touched creature make opposing rolls (d20+collector level vs d20+HD). Something else along the lines of "the collector can only capture creatures with a number of HD equal to his collector levels + some number" would be nice. You could also say that a creature needs to be at or below a certain percent or amount of their hp to be targeted, so that a collector can't just one shot the BBEG.

3.) Make creatures in the bottle gain Fast Healing 1. Now the collector is also the out of combat healer! (and captured creatures will be fully healed when they are unleashed).

4.) Give the collector diplomacy, intimidate, and a bonus to each to persuade a creature in a bottle to his side. There could be a happy bottle, with a nice bed and food, and a torture bottle. I know I would use the lifebottle ability to do this, so I would like a rule for it :smallbiggrin:. Side note: I did like that the creatures captured by the collector aren't instantly converted into pets, like pokemon. I could just see a collector standing in a royal court with a bottle over his head screaming "If you don't stand down, I'll unleash this bodak and it will kill us all!"

5.) No multiple bottle opening. Unleashing an ocean on a town is cool, but most people, myself included, would just open 10 bottles of maximized fireball and make final confrontations much easier.

6.) Why not give the collector the ability to bottle enemy spells or the kinetic energy of an attack? The collector could then open the bottle up, make a ranged attack roll if necessary, and redirect the energy. The exact mechanics are up for debate. I just think it would be cool....

Of course, when the collector gets any of these abilities are entirely up to you. I also think that I touched on the balance issues that I have with this class in my suggestions. I hope my suggestions have been helpful.

Vadskye
2012-08-08, 12:44 PM
To prevent the "No-save bottling the BBEG" problem that really has nothing to do with what the magnificent Humphrey did, make being bottled willing-only. Include a parenthetical note that reminds players that unconscious creatures are, by definition, willing. Now you can give lifebottling earlier and let the bottler start dropping bears and other furry animals on your foes. An HD limit would also be necessary here; you don't want the party fighting one boss with the boss from the previous adventure!

(This idea has nothing at all to do with Pokemon go away)

Qwertystop
2012-08-08, 01:30 PM
I really like the class, but right now it seems a little bit rough around the edges. I'll keep an eye out on this thread.
Thanks!

Now, on to shameless suggestions! :smalltongue:
1.) There should be a cap for the number of active bottles the collector can have. All I need is several bags of holding and I can carry a lake with me at all times. I would flood every dungeon before going in. 50 bottles of maximized fireball? *shudder* I suggest 1 per collector level, but it's up to you.FTFY. :smallbiggrin:
I was thinking maybe two bottles per level if I have to have a limit. After all, the whole point is options.


3.) Make creatures in the bottle gain Fast Healing 1. Now the collector is also the out of combat healer! (and captured creatures will be fully healed when they are unleashed). Seems good to me.


4.) Give the collector diplomacy, intimidate, and a bonus to each to persuade a creature in a bottle to his side. There could be a happy bottle, with a nice bed and food, and a torture bottle. I know I would use the lifebottle ability to do this, so I would like a rule for it :smallbiggrin:. Side note: I did like that the creatures captured by the collector aren't instantly converted into pets, like pokemon. I could just see a collector standing in a royal court with a bottle over his head screaming "If you don't stand down, I'll unleash this bodak and it will kill us all!"Could be nice. Maybe I'll make it possible for Lifebottle to provide basic sustenance as well as just air.


5.) No multiple bottle opening. Unleashing an ocean on a town is cool, but most people, myself included, would just open 10 bottles of maximized fireball and make final confrontations much easier. You're right, but that means that I'd have to break my formula, since the 19th level Rapid Bottling wouldn't do anything. Any suggestion for a replacement?


6.) Why not give the collector the ability to bottle enemy spells or the kinetic energy of an attack? The collector could then open the bottle up, make a ranged attack roll if necessary, and redirect the energy. The exact mechanics are up for debate. I just think it would be cool....I was considering allowing the bottling of a spell that was not intentionally cast into the bottle, but I can't figure out how to do it. Making it automatic doesn't seem to fit too well.



To prevent the "No-save bottling the BBEG" problem that really has nothing to do with what the magnificent Humphrey did, make being bottled willing-only. Include a parenthetical note that reminds players that unconscious creatures are, by definition, willing. Now you can give lifebottling earlier and let the bottler start dropping bears and other furry animals on your foes. An HD limit would also be necessary here; you don't want the party fighting one boss with the boss from the previous adventure!

(This idea has nothing at all to do with Pokemon go away)

Yeah, willing-only sounds good...

Maybe the HD limit would only be on things that are only considered willing by merit of being unable to assert otherwise? It shouldn't stop you from bottling someone who actually wants to, but it might be more difficult if they're just unable to resist, but not actively going along with it.

Vadskye
2012-08-08, 01:33 PM
Yeah, willing-only sounds good...

Maybe the HD limit would only be on things that are only considered willing by merit of being unable to assert otherwise? It shouldn't stop you from bottling someone who actually wants to, but it might be more difficult if they're just unable to resist, but not actively going along with it.
I think that drawing a distinction between "willing" and "really willing" is a rules grey area you probably don't want to go into. Why not say that a bottler just doesn't have the ability to store the sheer power that high HD creatures can have when he's first starting out?

enderlord99
2012-08-08, 02:39 PM
*looks at lifebottle ability*

Do the bottles used have to be spherical?

Temotei
2012-08-08, 03:30 PM
I have to say I'm glad you kept the ability to bottle yourself.

Qwertystop
2012-08-08, 05:36 PM
I have to say I'm glad you kept the ability to bottle yourself.

Why not? I am basing this on the books.


I still want to figure out how to bottle more immaterial things. Maybe the capstone should be an intentionally vague ability to bottle stuff like light or one's voice? Vague to leave options open, but specifically saying that the DM can veto any of it.