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View Full Version : The Kingdom Of Baron In Medieval Europe - Redux!



DarthArminius
2012-08-16, 01:19 PM
The year is 800 AD. The Kingdom of Baron mysteriously replaces England. The Kingdom of Baron has all of it's magic and Fantasy Elements, including airships. However, Baron only has 5,000, 15,000 inhabitants. (I"m being generous, back-ground cannon says Baron has 4,500). So Baron has monsters, (Probably not counted in the population) Dark Knights, Mages, Dragoons and it's Royal Gaurd. (So let's say, with monsters included, Baron has 20,000 inhabitants) Monsters are subservient.

However, please note the enormous numbers disparity between it and it's neighbors. Baron is small even compared to Medieval powers. With such a change in Europe, can Baron become a Great Power, or will it be wiped out somehow?

The Glyphstone
2012-08-16, 04:34 PM
Is there any particular reason why you posted this versus match again, identical to the last one except tripling Baron's canon population for unknown reasons?

It was hashed out extremely thoroughly the last time, and we haven't had enough board population turnover in three months to be much different. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242460&highlight=Kingdom+Baron)

DarthArminius
2012-08-16, 04:44 PM
Is there any particular reason why you posted this versus match again, identical to the last one except tripling Baron's canon population for unknown reasons?

It was hashed out extremely thoroughly the last time, and we haven't had enough board population turnover in three months to be much different. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242460&highlight=Kingdom+Baron)

It's triple the population again. ;O)
I'm trying to come up with fictional scenarios in my head for writing inspiration.

Tavar
2012-08-16, 04:58 PM
Changing the population by such a degree doesn't really change anything. The old thread pretty much hashed it out.

Coidzor
2012-08-16, 05:35 PM
Minuscule population, vast swathes of uninhabited territory that they cannot adequately patrol or keep the law within, fleets of norsemen already headed towards them to colonize/plunder the island nation that they've replaced as another island nation. They may be powerful militarily through their air ships, but white mages only have so much MP and they only have so many boots on the ground to deal with their domestic issues. And their mages are not particularly powerful except for a few exceptional individuals.

The majority of their monster population are the forgettable imps which would be something that the warrior-settlers headed towards them would be able to deal with.

They'd need to broker something with the norsemen or find themselves spread too thin in keeping them out to establish hegemony in the short to middle term.

The last thread greatly overestimated the abilities of the Baronites and made the critical error of assuming that lack of need to eat or sleep from the Final Fantasy Universe would be kept in entering the universe of this Medieval Europe.

DarthArminius
2012-08-16, 05:59 PM
Minuscule population, vast swathes of uninhabited territory that they cannot adequately patrol or keep the law within, fleets of norsemen already headed towards them to colonize/plunder the island nation that they've replaced as another island nation. They may be powerful militarily through their air ships, but white mages only have so much MP and they only have so many boots on the ground to deal with their domestic issues. And their mages are not particularly powerful except for a few exceptional individuals.

The majority of their monster population are the forgettable imps which would be something that the warrior-settlers headed towards them would be able to deal with.

They'd need to broker something with the norsemen or find themselves spread too thin in keeping them out to establish hegemony in the short to middle term.

The last thread greatly overestimated the abilities of the Baronites and made the critical error of assuming that lack of need to eat or sleep from the Final Fantasy Universe would be kept in entering the universe of this Medieval Europe.

The problem with this statement is that even though the country "replaces" England, it doesn't mean they are trying to keep the entire territory. They could have just become Camelot of a different flavor and kept to London's territory. With walls surrounding the couple of towns and a castle and the ability to devote less of their military to defense they should have more freedom to do what they want within generations of slowly building their forces.

The Kingdom of Baron still needs to eat and drink, but with their vast medicinal technology and white mages, I've gotta say that it would be difficult for their not to be a continual population soaring for hundreds of years since their are so few inhabitants.

Coidzor
2012-08-16, 07:06 PM
The problem with this statement is that even though the country "replaces" England, it doesn't mean they are trying to keep the entire territory. They could have just become Camelot of a different flavor and kept to London's territory.

No, it means they have an even larger territory that they're ceding to the nordic settlers. Which is going to attract even more of them than England did due to the ease of settlement (disorganized imps that are only a threat to children versus organized Anglo-Saxon nations) and the size, assuming some rough sense of scale at least.


With walls surrounding the couple of towns and a castle and the ability to devote less of their military to defense they should have more freedom to do what they want within generations of slowly building their forces.

Years that give the new settlers time to become entrenched and culturally tied to the former lands of Baron that were ceded to them. One town and one castle, even with 15K people is not going to be able to put their force everywhere and their magic system has never shown a very good ability for a mess of low-level mages to predict and account for possible threats. Their airship crews are human and subject to fatigue and need for resupply even if the ships fly indefinitely.


The Kingdom of Baron still needs to eat and drink, but with their vast medicinal technology and white mages, I've gotta say that it would be difficult for their not to be a continual population soaring for hundreds of years since their are so few inhabitants.

The problem with your statement is that they don't really have medical technology and if they just become "camelot" they're going to have to trade for their food and the problem of intermarriage and dilution of their culture becomes an issue that would have to be addressed if they're having contact with the people who settled their abandoned land. And a lot of low-level soldiers are not going to be able to curbstomp a lot of other low-level soldiers without superior numbers, and their cultural survival needs for them to have a buffer against being bred into irrelevance or for them to successfully negotiate with and manage the barbarians at their gates. The old thread summarily dismissed this all out of hand despite the miniscule population of Baron compared to the even larger swath of territory that would be very attractive to the same people who came to England during that same time frame.

Also, their white mages are, from everything I've seen and read, a relatively new and small corps of mages. That have been cut off from developed societies of magic-users that they previously had been relying upon to increase their knowledge. And you're blithely assuming that this group is going to be able to magic-up a solution to a problem that didn't appear to exist in their home universe and that did not appear to have been addressed. That's a little bit far-fetched even for lolmages.

There are serious cultural issues that can't really be addressed without knowing the national character of Baron and they could very easily lead to Baron not becoming hegemon over this alternate earth.