My Little Pony LII: 525.600 Ponies!

[SiuiS]

Be diverse! Why not a zebra or a camel? Heck, a Donkey could liven up this place.

Because they aren't ponies?


Hey, it was your comparison. Besides, the guy works for Coca Cola nowadays. His CIA days are somewhat passed.

That's the official story, yes.


Do you mind if I borrow that,

Actually, yes. They are goin to be filled to occupancy pretty soon. For now, all but a few of them are currently brewing a slew of Octavias for Shadowy. Payment for a favor.


http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab136/hodgie25/myPony.png

Now I just gotta do everything else...

Cool.
Name?
Have the character pick five important traits to her character, an then pick the five most important words for each concept. Or a short description. Anything really, that would give me info for drawin'.


Tito approves this Fanfiction (http://www.fimfiction.net/story/48341/Changelings%2C-Changelings%2C-Everywhere)

Wow, Constance would be all over that. Or upset that you would reveal everything. I'm not even sure.

*bends down, knocks on the flagship* hello? Come on, don't make me do actual villain stuff before you respond. That's just mean.

[thubby]

Oh, those are some good names. Thanks.


between this and doodlebug I'm batting 1000 :smallbiggrin:

[Merellis]

Well I went HNNNNNNNNNG at this.
http://cdn.derpiboo.ru/media/BAhbBlsHOgZmSSIdNGYxMzNiMjc5NDViNzA1ZTZmMDAwMDAxBj oGRVQ/368__safe_comic_derpy-hooves_dinky-hooves_scarf_artist-onkelscrut.jpg

[Aotrs Commander]

:smalleek: It's pronounced "Dah-lick!?" I've always pronounced it "Day-lick!"

Dah-LEK, not -lick (the song is still right). And... how could you know about daleks and not know that...?! I...what? I mean, they refer to themselves when they talk like, all the time... They give me a run for my money in the arrogance stakes...

[SiuiS]

Dah-LEK, not -lick (the song is still right). And... how could you know about daleks and not know that...?! I...what? I mean, they refer to themselves when they talk like, all the time... They give me a run for my money in the arrogance stakes...

Uh, you're pronouncing Darlick wrong, commodore.

[Deadly]

between this and doodlebug I'm batting 1000 :smallbiggrin:

Hehe, true. I still can't wait to introduce Doodlebug :smallbiggrin:

[SlyGuyMcFly]

I don't completely understand all of your points. And a lot of the ones I do, I personally don't agree with, though I still respect them, and for the most part a lot of them are valid.

It probably says a lot that so few things really do get through my already filtered senses. It's a shame I'm not able to grow beyond my rather petty limitations.

But **** it, booms rock! Infact, here's one! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBC1Qob27sM)

It really doesn't help that I was raised such that DBZ is my Gospel...


Explosions are cool. Can be majestic. Awe-inspiring, even. They are only very rarely elegant. Elegance is the quality of refined grace and good taste, and explosions are (usually) neither refined nor in good taste. There is a case where I think they are elegant though: Explosive demolitions. The precise use of exactly the right amount of force in precisely the right configuration so that destruction is limited to precisely that which needs to be destroyed, in the least wasteful manner possible. Not a single joule of energy unused. This is an elegant explosion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaBQ3AkRetI). Tasteful, understated and efficient.


Tito approves this Fanfiction (http://www.fimfiction.net/story/48341/Changelings%2C-Changelings%2C-Everywhere)

Sweet Celestia. That is fantastic!

[Tiki Snakes]

Before y'all start screaming and hollering abou how LOL NO this is, he didn't say make peace. I'm fine with locking you both up until one extinguishes the other. Which was the premise.

Indeed. Thunderdome rules, as it were. (Expanded to your entire factions and setting as necessary).

Two Pony(factions) enter, one pony faction leaves. Being freeform, this would require you to figure out between you what the logical conclusion of it all would actually be and come to some kind of conclusion you could both live with (Out of Character).

[Aotrs Commander]

Uh, you're pronouncing Darlick wrong, commodore.

YOU IMM-PUNE THE DA-LEK MAS-TER RACE! YOU WILL BE EX-TERM-IN-ATED!

EX-TER-MIN-ATE!!

EX-TER-MIN-ATE!!

EX-TER-MIN-ATE!!

*dalek gun*

[SiuiS]

Explosions are cool. Can be majestic. Awe-inspiring, even. They are only very rarely elegant. Elegance is the quality of refined grace and good taste, and explosions are (usually) neither refined nor in good taste. There is a case where I think they are elegant though: Explosive demolitions. The precise use of exactly the right amount of force in precisely the right configuration so that destruction is limited to precisely that which needs to be destroyed, in the least wasteful manner possible. Not a single joule of energy unused. This is an elegant explosion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaBQ3AkRetI). Tasteful, understated and efficient.

under normal situations, yes. However, this doesn't really apply to any of the things in ponythread. Either it's wasteful, as disintegration is possible, or acutely increasing the entropic march of key structural points to cause demolition, or even isolating such structural points as vital, and striking them with a simultaneous resonant note.

Or, it's stupidly out of the range of control of those who like them. Luka couldn't utilize an explosion in a way that would be useful. Neither could Inkin. Neither could I. There is no capacity on a technological level for an explosion to be used in a way which is not inherently wasteful.

I have even thinking about controlled demolitions. I liken it to my response the first time this came up; I appreciate the Krogan approach. The chaff like dakka and head butts sure, but the battle master elevates it to an art, working towards an economy of violence. The galaxy may bear the scars of the horse, but they will come to fear the lance.

... Tat was supposed to be 'horde', I swear.

[maximus25]

Cool.
Name?
Have the character pick five important traits to her character, an then pick the five most important words for each concept. Or a short description. Anything really, that would give me info for drawin'.


Name is Splintered Perception. Five important traits... hmm. Very witty, has a smart aleck answer for everything. Curious, she loves to learn new things. Absent-minded, tends to get lost in her own thoughts, however interesting they may get. Stubborn, doesn't like having her ideals challenged, 'they're always right' and all that. Quiet, caught up in her own little world, doesn't like to talk much.

[Tiki Snakes]

YOU IMM-PUNE THE DA-LEK MAS-TER RACE! YOU WILL BE EX-TERM-IN-ATED!

EX-TER-MIN-ATE!!

EX-TER-MIN-ATE!!

EX-TER-MIN-ATE!!

*dalek gun*

Dalek OC? That's new. :smallcool:

[Aotrs Commander]

Dalek OC? That's new. :smallcool:

Told you my dalek impression was spot on!

It was! I'm especially impressed how you managed to perfectly imitate the dalek-gun noise using only a paperclip and a slightly moistened cantaloupe.

[SiuiS]

YOU IMM-PUNE THE DA-LEK MAS-TER RACE! YOU WILL BE EX-TERM-IN-ATED!

EX-TER-MIN-ATE!!

EX-TER-MIN-ATE!!

EX-TER-MIN-ATE!!

*dalek gun*

Help! It's Kindablue, he's After me!


Name is Splintered Perception. Five important traits... hmm. Very witty, has a smart aleck answer for everything. Curious, she loves to learn new things. Absent-minded, tends to get lost in her own thoughts, however interesting they may get. Stubborn, doesn't like having her ideals challenged, 'they're always right' and all that. Quiet, caught up in her own little world, doesn't like to talk much.

Can work with that. Not tonight though. Or this morning I guess would be more accurate. Long nights. Those suck.


Told you my dalek impression was spot on!

It was! I'm especially impressed how you managed to perfectly imitate the dalek-gun noise using only a paperclip and a slightly moistened cantaloupe.

Components. *removes hand from side, showing burnt hole in cloak*
Bloody wizards...

[SlyGuyMcFly]

under normal situations, yes. However, this doesn't really apply to any of the things in ponythread. Either it's wasteful, as disintegration is possible, or acutely increasing the entropic march of key structural points to cause demolition, or even isolating such structural points as vital, and striking them with a simultaneous resonant note.

Or, it's stupidly out of the range of control of those who like them. Luka couldn't utilize an explosion in a way that would be useful. Neither could Inkin. Neither could I. There is no capacity on a technological level for an explosion to be used in a way which is not inherently wasteful.

I have even thinking about controlled demolitions. I liken it to my response the first time this came up; I appreciate the Krogan approach. The chaff like dakka and head butts sure, but the battle master elevates it to an art, working towards an economy of violence. The galaxy may bear the scars of the horse, but they will come to fear the lance.

... Tat was supposed to be 'horde', I swear.

Wastefulness is far from the only criterion for elegance. Grace and skill also count. Furthermore, I very much think that an explosion can be the least wasteful solution to a given problem out of any available options.

I contend that a controlled demolition constitutes an excellent example of economy of violence. It is an elegant solution to the problem of how to reduce a large building to an easy-to-transport rubble state. Controlled explosions in quarry work is another similar case, where a precisely wielded short burst of extremely violent force is more efficient than the long-duration, low-intensity "violence" of the pneumatic drill.

You are of course correct that this is never the case in ponythread, however. Although the Commander might be able to give us a demonstration with his rocket launcher. Um, not does count as me voluteering as a target for said demonstration.

[Tiki Snakes]

Wastefulness is far from the only criterion for elegance. Grace and skill also count. Furthermore, I very much think that an explosion can be the least wasteful solution to a given problem out of any available options.

I contend that a controlled demolition constitutes an excellent example of economy of violence. It is an elegant solution to the problem of how to reduce a large building to an easy-to-transport rubble state. Controlled explosions in quarry work is another similar case, where a precisely wielded short burst of extremely violent force is more efficient than the long-duration, low-intensity "violence" of the pneumatic drill.

You are of course correct that this is never the case in ponythread, however. Although the Commander might be able to give us a demonstration with his rocket launcher. Um, not does count as me voluteering as a target for said demonstration.

Almost completely missing my point, of course. As useful as controlled demolition is, it is largely a civilian concern. Though useful enough in a ground-war, especially as a way to cut supply lines. There are no civilian applications for the type of explosives that Ponythread seems to be so enthralled by. Orbital Lasers and nuclear-grade explosives have only one real use. Ending life in the most forceful, brutal and indescriminate of ways with little concern for who is or isn't a combatant. To glorify such a crude tool is something that I just cannot understand.

[DigoDragon]

Sisterly outing (with RD playing Big sis to Scoots):
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/546149_379259778808829_1964195132_n.jpg



it's always been my headcannon that the elements are about restoring balance.
against something made of pure evil, they wouldn't do much, if anything

Though how they go about to restore balance would be important. It could be argued that NMM was pure evil given that a forever-lasting night would eventually kill off most life on the planet.



Naw, the WWotW is everyone's favorite changeling queen (with a swarm of changelings holding a kingdom hostage) and Glenda is Candace.:smallamused:

The problem is having too many good choices for some of these roles. :smallbiggrin:



I'm bored, so I'm stealing this from Derpibooru:
http://cdn.derpiboo.ru/thumbs/1223/839/2012/08/17/00_19_27_915_76169__UNOPT__spoiler_s03_thread_pret end

I laughed by flack off at the episode where the CMC accidently started that War of the Worlds panic with the pie tins. I think every alien invasion trope was smashed pretty effectively and you can tell the writers held back no joke for the effect. Best part? I think it was Twilight trying to communicate using her "Science" and the nerd pony actually understood her, thinking she was talking to him. XD

[Aotrs Commander]

AotrsCom

Must be slipping... Several more UFOs - including a couple of captures - and we only got Peon Two killed (at long last). Knobbled a few Snakemen in the while, but what we've mostly been fighting are floaters. Heck, we even saved most of the civilians I the last two terror missins... Coldbeam superiority, that's what it is. And the new fancy armour. Plus we can rake in the money from our coldbeam cannons...

Busy, busy day! Three UFOs, one after the other! Two of 'em bigguns, a terror ship and a supply ship! We even got a few prisoners, thanks to the goods, old-fashioned, bludgeon 'em unconsious with the butts of our weapons! Stunsticks, who needs 'em? (I almost managed to clobber the leader of the supply ship with my rocket launcher, but wasn't quite fast enough, so I ended up using my pistol...) And with a navigator - finally - and a leader stuck in the holding pens, we're cooking with plasma.

I'm guessing we must have a base nearby, but nothing yet.

And work is progressing on our own next two bases. Little bit behind, seeing as it's April, but what do you get for your first attempt...

But, we've now got about four UFOs captured completely intact. Harhar.

[DigoDragon]

For those of you who follow, here are the latest batch of quotes from Trixie in the Super RPG I'm involved with. Our last session was mostly traveling up to Geneva where we plan on getting the jump on a businessman who is a major player in the demon cult we're fighting against:

Trixie: "First rule of time travel-- WE DON'T TALK ABOUT TIME TRAVEL!"

Jimmy: "Are we the best they have?"
Trixie: "No, the cheapest. Trixie hasn't been paid yet."
Harmony: "I'm doing this as Community Service, ha!"

Mason: "This is Europe. No one uses film cameras."
Trixie: "Cameras in Trixie's world do, AND they have flash powder."
GM: "Trixie comes from a time where it was legal to marry a horse."
Mason: "Hahaha!"
Trixie: "Trixie not sure if that was a burn..." |:p


Jimmy: "Should we rent another panel van?"
Mason: "Whatever it is, make sure it has sliding side doors this time."
Jimmy: "Good idea, that way more of us can take combat actions in a chase."
Trixie: "I've noticed a disturbing trend that lately we're choosing our vehicles based on how well we can kill other people with them."

Jimmy: "You know, a back-hoof compliment is still a back-hoof compliment."
Trixie: "Oh that was never meant to be a compliment." :D

Jimmy: "Here's your passport."
Trixie: "Would Trixie need such a thing? Trixie is not a human."
Paul: "For you it's more of a... Animal license? I'll pretend you're my service horse."
Mason: "Excellent, we gave the moron a Seeing Eye Pony."

Mason: *Over walkie-talkie* "Anoyone find out anything?"
Trixie: *Walkie-talkie* "German sounds like a very angry language. Also, German kids are scary."
Jimmy: *Walkie-talkie* "Got chased down, did you?"
Trixie: *Walkie-talkie* "Well, just for a block, but then I ran up the side of a building and lost them."
Mason: *Walkie-talkie* "...what?"
Trixie: *Walkie-talkie* "A wizard did it." >_>





Durkon- http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponified-Durkon-324984292

I like all these, they are neat and you picked good colors for them. I think the Roy one could be neat with his trademark frowny-face, but its still good. :smallsmile:

[Thanqol]

For those of you who follow, here are the latest batch of quotes from Trixie in the Super RPG I'm involved with. Our last session was mostly traveling up to Geneva where we plan on getting the jump on a businessman who is a major player in the demon cult we're fighting against:

Trixie: "First rule of time travel-- WE DON'T TALK ABOUT TIME TRAVEL!"

Jimmy: "Are we the best they have?"
Trixie: "No, the cheapest. Trixie hasn't been paid yet."
Harmony: "I'm doing this as Community Service, ha!"

Mason: "This is Europe. No one uses film cameras."
Trixie: "Cameras in Trixie's world do, AND they have flash powder."
GM: "Trixie comes from a time where it was legal to marry a horse."
Mason: "Hahaha!"
Trixie: "Trixie not sure if that was a burn..." |:p


Jimmy: "Should we rent another panel van?"
Mason: "Whatever it is, make sure it has sliding side doors this time."
Jimmy: "Good idea, that way more of us can take combat actions in a chase."
Trixie: "I've noticed a disturbing trend that lately we're choosing our vehicles based on how well we can kill other people with them."

Jimmy: "You know, a back-hoof compliment is still a back-hoof compliment."
Trixie: "Oh that was never meant to be a compliment." :D

Jimmy: "Here's your passport."
Trixie: "Would Trixie need such a thing? Trixie is not a human."
Paul: "For you it's more of a... Animal license? I'll pretend you're my service horse."
Mason: "Excellent, we gave the moron a Seeing Eye Pony."

Mason: *Over walkie-talkie* "Anoyone find out anything?"
Trixie: *Walkie-talkie* "German sounds like a very angry language. Also, German kids are scary."
Jimmy: *Walkie-talkie* "Got chased down, did you?"
Trixie: *Walkie-talkie* "Well, just for a block, but then I ran up the side of a building and lost them."
Mason: *Walkie-talkie* "...what?"
Trixie: *Walkie-talkie* "A wizard did it." >_>

Ahahahah, these are the best yet.

[Alabenson]

Then it's a good thing I plan on rigging Maxtronaut's ship to be a holy warrior, because Boffencraft will spontaneously develop evil mook tendencies. Or duh limbs.

I wouldn't be overly worried about that. My energy containment protocols are completely foolproof, so there's absolutely no chance of the Discordant energy affecting the rest of the ship.
*several small cotton cady clouds rush past in the background*
No chance of it affecting the rest of the ship whatsoever.


Do you mind if I borrow that, compare notes a bit? I'm afraid my first attempt at cloning didn't have the desired effect, though I love my little Athena anyway.

I suppose I could provide you with a few of my spare cloning vats if you need the technology. It would only be fair considering I've been trying to reverse engineer your rainuke devices.

[Aotrs Commander]

AotrsCom
Well, there we go... cleared that last wreck we shot down before dealing with the supply ship, and there goes Peon Seven!

Oh... new base is up. So, I guess I had better start adding some soldiers, then, really.

Of course, you know what this means, don't you Hopereaver...?

No, I don...

...

oh Lichemaster please no. Don't say it, don't say it, don't say-


We must recruit additional Peons!


Aaaaargh! *headesk*

You... You've been waiting days for the opportunity to use that line, haven't you?

Yes.

Yes, I have.

Totally worth it.

[Forum Explorer]

Speaking of filling the gap between seasons, I have a fanfic recommendation for everypony! It is called Mystara's Little Ponies: Friendship is Adventuring. (http://www.fimfiction.net/story/2857/My%28stara%27s%29-Little-Ponies%3A--Friendship-is-Adventuring)

I actually read this story last year and liked it a lot, so I figured I'd share it with you now that the author's moved the whole thing over onto FimFiction.

It is basically a fic that puts Equestria in Mystara, with all the implications that entails. Contains humans. Protagonist is human OC.

That is all.

Edit: Added link.

I've read that one. It was incredible and hilarious.


AotrsCom
Well, there we go... cleared that last wreck we shot down before dealing with the supply ship, and there goes Peon Seven!

Oh... new base is up. So, I guess I had better start adding some soldiers, then, really.

Of course, you know what this means, don't you Hopereaver...?

No, I don...

...

oh Lichemaster please no. Don't say it, don't say it, don't say-


We must recruit additional Peons!


Aaaaargh! *headesk*

You... You've been waiting days for the opportunity to use that line, haven't you?

Yes.

Yes, I have.

Totally worth it.

Hehehehe. :smallbiggrin:


Apparently my story somehow got into the feature box of FIMFiction. This only proves our space lich's point that we have hit a drought of good pony fan fics.

[thubby]

Though how they go about to restore balance would be important. It could be argued that NMM was pure evil given that a forever-lasting night would eventually kill off most life on the planet.

except luna was still in there.

[Lix Lorn]

Told you my dalek impression was spot on!

It was! I'm especially impressed how you managed to perfectly imitate the dalek-gun noise using only a paperclip and a slightly moistened cantaloupe.
...okay, even I'm impressed.
Hopes, how did you manage to change your text colour?

[Anarion]

You know what would be kinda cool? An MLP giraffe...

http://th00.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2012/039/0/b/nameless_mlp_fim_giraffe_by_katlyon-d4p49jo.png

That is pretty cool. The design heavily implies that giraffes and zebras come from the same place though (presumably pony Africa), which I think is a little boring. It would be interesting if they were from totally different areas and even an episode where Zecora and a giraffe were to meet and get to know each other would be interesting.


Ancient Chinese Secret.

Knowing exactly what Thanqol is talking about, including the link to the video that he didn't even post here degeneration check #2
Results: 7,5,10,4. Rerolled 10 was a 7. I'm just barely keeping my sanity when faced with all this Thanqol, it seems.


Told you my dalek impression was spot on!

It was! I'm especially impressed how you managed to perfectly imitate the dalek-gun noise using only a paperclip and a slightly moistened cantaloupe.

Ooh cantaloupe, I love cantaloupe. Do you have a supply of any other fruits on your ship?


AotrsCom
Well, there we go... cleared that last wreck we shot down before dealing with the supply ship, and there goes Peon Seven!

Oh... new base is up. So, I guess I had better start adding some soldiers, then, really.

Of course, you know what this means, don't you Hopereaver...?

No, I don...

...

oh Lichemaster please no. Don't say it, don't say it, don't say-


We must recruit additional Peons!


Aaaaargh! *headesk*

You... You've been waiting days for the opportunity to use that line, haven't you?

Yes.

Yes, I have.

Totally worth it.

By Celestia, that was genius. If there's a corny pun god somewhere in the universe, I think you just earned that god's blessing.

X-pony UFO 61
Dear Princess Celestia,

Why does the Avenger take so long to repair? Whyyyyy?! Okay, okay, we so we finished our second one and the only reason that our first is in such bad shape is that it soloed a battleship so we could capture an enemy commander and we did capture him, and Cydonia or Bust is researching as we speak. But still, it looks like your Asian base Avenger is going to be out of commission for a couple weeks and North Africa will need to pick up the slack.

We've also spotted an alien base in Brazil, but haven't attacked it yet. It's such a big undertaking at this point, and I want to wait until we have psi amps for the whole North American team. They should be done before October 31st, so we'll hit the base before the end of the month. I'm also a little worried. This one is labeled base #4 on our sensors, and we haven't exactly found base #3. It's got to be in either Northern Europe or Australia though, I've done flyovers everywhere else at this point.

So, I should tell you about our sweet battleship assault. As colonel, I figured it was important to lead from the front, so I took private Derpy with me and we made a beeline for the third floor. Octavia was a real doll, cleaning up all the outdoor areas, and the rest of the team pushed into the base level and up through the second floor of the ship. We tried out our new plasma hovertank too, and would you believe these battleships have a lift big enough to get a tank onto the actual ship? Yeah, that was fun. It was a floater battleship, so it wasn't the biggest deal ever, but we still had to take out a couple of tools armed with blaster launchers. I bagged the commander, Derpy sprinted the other way and smacked the leader. Then we snuck into the med bay and took out the medic for good measure an that pretty much took care of things.

I was thinking though. If this had been a snakeman ship, or *shudder* one of those ethereal ships, we would have been in deep trouble pushing in through the main entrance like we did. I bet the set up a major crossfire on the lifts. Now that we've got a surplus of blaster launchers and flight armor though, I've had a great idea! Next battleship, we're sending an infiltration team in through the roof while everypony else clears out the ground level and covers the entrances. One blaster bomb should blow a hole, even through the thicker Battleship outer hulls. Then we send our guys jetpacking in, drop down right in the commander's face and light'em up. Oh man, I'm gonna have to dust off my classics for this one, huh? I'm thinkin we ride in to "Don't Stop Believin." What do you think princess?

Your faithful DJ,
Colonel Vinyl Scratch

[Strife Warzeal]

Name is Splintered Perception. Five important traits... hmm. Very witty, has a smart aleck answer for everything. Curious, she loves to learn new things. Absent-minded, tends to get lost in her own thoughts, however interesting they may get. Stubborn, doesn't like having her ideals challenged, 'they're always right' and all that. Quiet, caught up in her own little world, doesn't like to talk much.
Why did you just describe me with female pronouns... WHERE ARE THE CAMERAS IN MY HOUSE! Oh Celestia help me, I have a stalker...


X-pony UFO 61
Dear Princess Celestia,

Why does the Avenger take so long to repair? Whyyyyy?! Okay, okay, we so we finished our second one and the only reason that our first is in such bad shape is that it soloed a battleship so we could capture an enemy commander and we did capture him, and Cydonia or Bust is researching as we speak. But still, it looks like your Asian base Avenger is going to be out of commission for a couple weeks and North Africa will need to pick up the slack.

We've also spotted an alien base in Brazil, but haven't attacked it yet. It's such a big undertaking at this point, and I want to wait until we have psi amps for the whole North American team. They should be done before October 31st, so we'll hit the base before the end of the month. I'm also a little worried. This one is labeled base #4 on our sensors, and we haven't exactly found base #3. It's got to be in either Northern Europe or Australia though, I've done flyovers everywhere else at this point.

So, I should tell you about our sweet battleship assault. As colonel, I figured it was important to lead from the front, so I took private Derpy with me and we made a beeline for the third floor. Octavia was a real doll, cleaning up all the outdoor areas, and the rest of the team pushed into the base level and up through the second floor of the ship. We tried out our new plasma hovertank too, and would you believe these battleships have a lift big enough to get a tank onto the actual ship? Yeah, that was fun. It was a floater battleship, so it wasn't the biggest deal ever, but we still had to take out a couple of tools armed with blaster launchers. I bagged the commander, Derpy sprinted the other way and smacked the leader. Then we snuck into the med bay and took out the medic for good measure an that pretty much took care of things.

I was thinking though. If this had been a snakeman ship, or *shudder* one of those ethereal ships, we would have been in deep trouble pushing in through the main entrance like we did. I bet the set up a major crossfire on the lifts. Now that we've got a surplus of blaster launchers and flight armor though, I've had a great idea! Next battleship, we're sending an infiltration team in through the roof while everypony else clears out the ground level and covers the entrances. One blaster bomb should blow a hole, even through the thicker Battleship outer hulls. Then we send our guys jetpacking in, drop down right in the commander's face and light'em up. Oh man, I'm gonna have to dust off my classics for this one, huh? I'm thinkin we ride in to "Don't Stop Believin." What do you think princess?

Your faithful DJ,
Colonel Vinyl Scratch
I said Avengers can take the battleship, not that it would come off easy. Can't quite remember it, but I think there is a Nuke Launcher weapon that makes ship fights easier.
Blaster Bombs are fickle about blowing up ship parts in my experience, it's a good plan though I've done it multiple times. Since you have all that, I suggest a Blaster Bomb Tank just for gits and shiggles.

[Aotrs Commander]

I would just like to say that Under the Northern Lights is frakking awesome, and you should totally all be reading it you aren't already.

Logical extension of dragons eating rocks and gems? Rock-crushing jaws + acid saliva (for dissolving the gemstones) plus claws that can carve through metal. Spike is frellin' awesome.

(And Twi didn't do so bad, either, for that matter...)

I'm totally headcanoning those draconic attributes, along with the teleport-fire-breath because Awesome.


...okay, even I'm impressed.
Hopes, how did you manage to change your text colour?

'S all in the pronouciation. I do do some undercover work, after all, and I don't always need to use magic!


Hehehehe. :smallbiggrin:


By Celestia, that was genius. If there's a corny pun god somewhere in the universe, I think you just earned that god's blessing.

Thannnkyou, I'll be hear all week.

Unfortunately.

[CrnivorousMeece]

It looks good! What program are you using, if not Photoshop? (I use Inkscape myself.)


I use Paint.Net it's basically like Photoshop but it's missing a lot of tools but it basically works the same as Photoshop as far as I can tell.

[Luka]

:smallsigh:....Just noticed

Heh, expected more chaos over saying that I was a brony given how it was before.


Already quoted, but I'd like to do my part in preserving this moment. Welcome to a little piece of reality. It's still insane ponysane, but you might enjoy it here.

Mostly seemed like I'm a hate magnet when being myself though :smallbiggrin:


:smallamused:

...what? I already mentioned I disliked a lot of things! how am I going to be a full brony with that?



Almost completely missing my point, of course. As useful as controlled demolition is, it is largely a civilian concern. Though useful enough in a ground-war, especially as a way to cut supply lines. There are no civilian applications for the type of explosives that Ponythread seems to be so enthralled by. Orbital Lasers and nuclear-grade explosives have only one real use. Ending life in the most forceful, brutal and indescriminate of ways with little concern for who is or isn't a combatant. To glorify such a crude tool is something that I just cannot understand.

Of course, you got to know what, where and how to throw it!
if you want to blow up some tanks in a street you don't randomly launch orbital bombardment, you just send an A-10 (or similar) and AGM them! that way you can be sure you're hitting him! and it's still cool!
It's all about using brute force at the best spots, doesn't work? use more! they're just like dots and art: use them right and you make a masterpiece! :smalltongue:

[Maxtronaut]

Meeeehhhhhh.... @__________@

Sore throat, sinuses are filled to the brim with refuse, I'm echausted so much that it's an effort to even type this, I am SICK.

How's your Labor Day weekend going? Mine SUCKS.

[raymundo]

Greetings,

I don't really understand what is actually going on in here :smallwink:, but may I ask if somebody knows some facts about the third season? Like, when it is going to start, if it has a full run of 26 episodes and why didn't I get a pink Fluttershy T-Shirt for my birthday? :(

[thubby]

Meeeehhhhhh.... @__________@

Sore throat, sinuses are filled to the brim with refuse, I'm echausted so much that it's an effort to even type this, I am SICK.

How's your Labor Day weekend going? Mine SUCKS.

how in tartarus do you always manage to get sick when i do?
seriously, this is just getting creepy.

[Pokonic]

That is pretty cool. The design heavily implies that giraffes and zebras come from the same place though (presumably pony Africa), which I think is a little boring. It would be interesting if they were from totally different areas and even an episode where Zecora and a giraffe were to meet and get to know each other would be interesting.



I would think that Zebrica (Zefrica? The Samara? The Zavvana?) would be just as diverse as Equestria, if not moreso. Heck, I could see Rhinos and Hippo's being genuine races as well.


Greetings,

I don't really understand what is actually going on in here :smallwink:, but may I ask if somebody knows some facts about the third season? Like, when it is going to start, if it has a full run of 26 episodes and why didn't I get a pink Fluttershy T-Shirt for my birthday? :(

The third season:

1: We dont know.

2: Nope, just thirteen episodes.

3: Ask people in pesky RL.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Meeeehhhhhh.... @__________@

Sore throat, sinuses are filled to the brim with refuse, I'm echausted so much that it's an effort to even type this, I am SICK.

How's your Labor Day weekend going? Mine SUCKS.

Get better soon!



Almost completely missing my point, of course.

I wasn't aiming at it in the first place. :smalltongue:



As useful as controlled demolition is, it is largely a civilian concern. Though useful enough in a ground-war, especially as a way to cut supply lines. There are no civilian applications for the type of explosives that Ponythread seems to be so enthralled by. Orbital Lasers and nuclear-grade explosives have only one real use. Ending life in the most forceful, brutal and indescriminate of ways with little concern for who is or isn't a combatant. To glorify such a crude tool is something that I just cannot understand.

Power is attractive and OFCs and nukes are undeniably powerful. Such magnitude of power can be awe-inspiring, and that which inspires awe invites adoration. But that aside, sometimes you do need to end life in the most brutal, forceful and indiscriminate way possible. For instance... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCbfMkh940Q)

[Maxtronaut]

how in tartarus do you always manage to get sick when i do?
seriously, this is just getting creepy.

You are what you eat. :smalltongue:


Get better soon!

Thanks. :3

[Tvtyrant]

I would think that Zebrica (Zefrica? The Samara? The Zavvana?) would be just as diverse as Equestria, if not moreso. Heck, I could see Rhinos and Hippo's being genuine races as well.


This is what I was thinking. The way the series seems to play things out, anything with hooves is sentient. Other things may be, but things with hooves are. So we have ponies, cows, donkeys, zebra, and bison so far. However in the future we could have giraffes, deer, camels, llamas, buffalo, elk, moose, antelopes, gazelle, tapir, rhinos, and aardvarks!

[Pokonic]

You are what you eat. :smalltongue:



Thanks. :3

Hey man, mind if you get on Clockwork right now?


In other, pony-related news, I just discovered that a good amount of my classmates also enjoy the wonder that is ponysanity. After spending the better part of last year not saying a word about ponies.
http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmg5pvNu5l1qzcy5co1_500.jpg

This is what I was thinking. The way the series seems to play things out, anything with hooves is sentient. Other things may be, but things with hooves are. So we have ponies, cows, donkeys, zebra, and bison so far. However in the future we could have giraffes, deer, camels, llamas, buffalo, elk, moose, antelopes, gazelle, tapir, rhinos, and aardvarks!

We could even branch out into weirder things. Abadas? Okipi? Winged Pigs? Heck, a Naga would be cool.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Greetings,

I don't really understand what is actually going on in here :smallwink:, but may I ask if somebody knows some facts about the third season? Like, when it is going to start, if it has a full run of 26 episodes and why didn't I get a pink Fluttershy T-Shirt for my birthday? :(

As was said we don't know when its scheduled, there are only 13 episodes, and presumably because you didn't point your gift givers at welovefine's website well enough.

More in detail also have heard two songs released as sneak peeks, one about Twilight and a test of some kind, and the other about some Crystal Ponies while on the merch end Hasbro has some "Crystal Empire" line they are cooking. Cadence seems to be involved so her return it assured. Other various details around include pretty sure rumors of Trixie, a presumable future villain, and some background shots. Outside of that various hint you can dig in the ponynet for, like Will Anderson saying this season is special for some reason.

So yeah nothing close to a spoiler, yet. This time last year I think we even had the first Discord clip out.

[Anarion]

Regarding season 3, there are rumors that it would be late September at the earliest (based on info usually coming from Hasbro a few weeks in advance), but we don't know.


Why did you just describe me with female pronouns... WHERE ARE THE CAMERAS IN MY HOUSE! Oh Celestia help me, I have a stalker...

I said Avengers can take the battleship, not that it would come off easy. Can't quite remember it, but I think there is a Nuke Launcher weapon that makes ship fights easier.
Blaster Bombs are fickle about blowing up ship parts in my experience, it's a good plan though I've done it multiple times. Since you have all that, I suggest a Blaster Bomb Tank just for gits and shiggles.

Based on this site's (http://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Fusion_Ball) evaluation and the fact I only had the one Avenger, it didn't seem like a good idea to grab the fusion ball launcher. Also, apparently the handheld blaster launcher will always blow up one UFO wall if the wall is the center of the impact. However, the tank explosion is weaker and can't penetrate UFO walls at all, though it blows up other terrain just fine.

[Tiki Snakes]

In honour of our little discourse, I dug out a war poem written by a guardspony on a world we saw particularly protracted, three way conflict on.


Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like nags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Mares marched asleep. Many had lost their shoes
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.

Gas! Gas! Quick, ponies!–An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But somepony still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound'ring like a mare in fire or lime...
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw her drowning.

In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
She plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung her in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in her face,
Her hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,–
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To foals ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

Wilfred Owen's Dulce et Decorum Est was suprisingly easy to ponify.



I wasn't aiming at it in the first place. :smalltongue:

Touche.




Power is attractive and OFCs and nukes are undeniably powerful. Such magnitude of power can be awe-inspiring, and that which inspires awe invites adoration. But that aside, sometimes you do need to end life in the most brutal, forceful and indiscriminate way possible. For instance... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCbfMkh940Q)

It is a deceptive kind of power they grant, a fleeting, ingenuine strength. The latter is a good example actually. The tactic is sound, but mostly as it is a wise admission of defeat, of being hopelessly outmatched. When you are outmatched, seek to change the arena of conflict such that the odds are once again stacked overwhelmingly in your favour.

Ma'am?
Oh hush Joyreaper, I'm not giving any meaningful secrets away, this hardly constitutes a -
Ma'am.
Oh, fine. Alright, alright, I'll keep military discussion to a minimum.

[otakuryoga]

yes yes yes yes yes yes

went by ToysRUs before going into work

walked back to the pony are(which they had moved again)

saw one Favorites set

YOINK!

(or MINE! in the tone of voice of a seagull from Nemo if you prefer)

and now Nightmare Moon, Trixie Lulamoon, and DJ-Pon3 are mine!!!!

[RdMarquis]

Meeeehhhhhh.... @__________@

Sore throat, sinuses are filled to the brim with refuse, I'm echausted so much that it's an effort to even type this, I am SICK.

How's your Labor Day weekend going? Mine SUCKS.

If it makes you feel any better, I have to work today. But get well soon.

Just for fun.
http://cdn.derpiboo.ru/thumbs/1223/687/2012/09/03/22_36_35_465_89453__UNOPT__blossomforth_thunderlan e_mane_beautiful_artis_artdude529_i_really_like_yo ur_mane_touch

[DigoDragon]

Why did I laugh so hard at this?

The stoned-looking Spike is what got me laughing.



except luna was still in there.

Even evil needs to feed. :smallbiggrin:




Ahahahah, these are the best yet.

Thanks! ^_^ We try to be entertaining when we can.
The character Jimmy has pointed out that Trixie sticks out too much on these missions, lending help to the villains in finding us. Can't help that much, but the GM pointed out a spell I can use to temporarily make Trixie a human, thus blending in better.
Trixie has no reason to hide who she is (Indeed, she jumps out at the chance of showponyship), but being able for once go out with the others into stores and shop for things or just HANG OUT without being attacked by the cult thugs, well...

Trixie... is pondering it. :smallamused:

[Deadly]

Chapter 3 of II is now finished (http://www.fimfiction.net/story/46620/II). So far I'm managing a chapter a week, I hope I can keep that up.

[Tiki Snakes]

The stoned-looking Spike is what got me laughing.




Even evil needs to feed. :smallbiggrin:





Thanks! ^_^ We try to be entertaining when we can.
The character Jimmy has pointed out that Trixie sticks out too much on these missions, lending help to the villains in finding us. Can't help that much, but the GM pointed out a spell I can use to temporarily make Trixie a human, thus blending in better.
Trixie has no reason to hide who she is (Indeed, she jumps out at the chance of showponyship), but being able for once go out with the others into stores and shop for things or just HANG OUT without being attacked by the cult thugs, well...

Trixie... is pondering it. :smallamused:

If you do it, make less effort to blend in than usual. Trixie it up to 11 and break the dial off. To balance it out, you see.

[Aotrs Commander]

yes yes yes yes yes yes

went by ToysRUs before going into work

walked back to the pony are(which they had moved again)

saw one Favorites set

YOINK!

(or MINE! in the tone of voice of a seagull from Nemo if you prefer)

and now Nightmare Moon, Trixie Lulamoon, and DJ-Pon3 are mine!!!!

Sweeet.

I have resigned myself to the fact that it's going to be nightmarish (ahaha) getting ahold of any ponies over here - even more so because I really haven't got the space - or the hair-dealing-with-skills - for brushables, and getting the blind bag ones is even more difficult. (And the prices of ebay are starting to creep up as well. *sigh*)



AotrsCom
Another day night seriously, I've had like seventeen missions, of which about three or four have been in the daytime, it's really tedious another supplyship.

Easy meat... I made Derpy a Sergeant! Long overdue, that pegasus's kill-count is second only to mine and Hopereaver's! Okay, she may not be fast off the draw, but, y'know, Derpy!

And we're down to five Peons... (Peon Six, wounded and returned to duty just in time to die at the bottom of the ramp!) Peon Five is doing amazingly well... She's still alive, after fourteen missions out of seventeen. If she keeps it up, I might have to kill her up to footsoldier...

Oh, another small scout... Wham. Fifteen missions. Should I promote her to Lich trooper?

[Soras Teva Gee]

I must admit this pic made me absurdly and bizarrely jealous for reasons I'm not really sure I comprehend:

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/246/3/8/daily_muffin_by_cradeelcin-d5dgbnf.jpg (http://cradeelcin.deviantart.com/art/Daily-Muffin-324927483?q=boost%3Apopular%20max_age%3A24h%20frie ndship%20is%20magic&qo=148)

The Doctor is a lucky lucky pony.

Best pony couple? Best pony couple. Period.

[Beacon of Chaos]

....

I wonder how long I spent on my post before my browser crashed. Crud, and I lost the image dump I was doing too. :smallsigh:

Let's see what I can remember.

Deadly:
Chapter 3 was good. Minor nitpick:
“I see, not a single heart's beat? That is very strange indeed,”

This doesn't rhyme. May I suggest:
“I see, not a single heart's beat? I wonder what could cause such a feat."

Thanqol:
Those little felt ponies are cute!

Digo:
Your Trixie just gets funnier and funnier! :smallbiggrin:

Random pictures
http://cdn.derpiboo.ru/media/BAhbBlsHOgZmSSJPMjAxMi8wNy8xNC8wMl80MF8wOV81XzQzMj g2X19zYWZlX25pZ2h0bWFyZV9tb29uX3ByaW5jZXNzX2FydGlz dF9sb25naW5pdXMGOgZFVA/43286__safe_nightmare-moon_princess_artist-longinius.jpg

Can't wait for this to be coloured:
http://cdn.derpiboo.ru/media/BAhbBlsHOgZmSSJVMjAxMi8wOC8yOC8wNF80MF8xMF84MjhfOD Q2MjNfX1VOT1BUX19wcmluY2Vzc19jZWxlc3RpYV9saW5lYXJ0 X2FydGlzdF9sb25naW5pdXMGOgZFVA/84623__safe_princess-celestia_lineart_artist-longinius.jpg

YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES!
http://cdn.derpiboo.ru/media/BAhbBlsHOgZmSSIBqzIwMTIvMDkvMDEvMDNfMDRfNDNfMjcxXz g3NDE0X19VTk9QVF9fc2FmZV9kb29tX3Bpbmt5X2RlbW9uX2Fy dGlzdF92YW5lZXRyYV9jYWNvZGVtb25fYXJhY2hub3Ryb25fYX JjaHZpbGVfaW1wX2xvc3Rfc291bF9tYW5jdWJ1c19wYWluX2Vs ZW1lbnRhbF9yZXZlbmFudF9zcGlkZXJfbWFzdGVybWluZAY6Bk VU/87414__safe_doom_pinky-demon_artist-vaneetra_cacodemon_hell-knight_arachnotron_archvile_baron-of-hell_imp_lost-soul_mancubus_pain-elemental_revenant_spider-mastermind.png

Changeling abomination?
http://cdn.derpiboo.ru/media/BAhbBlsHOgZmSSJVMjAxMi8wOS8wMy8xN18xOV80NF85MzZfOD kyNDZfX1VOT1BUX19zYWZlX3F1ZWVuX2NocnlzYWxpc19hcnRp c3Rfa29la3NfYmllbmNoZW4GOgZFVA/89246__safe_queen-chrysalis_artist-koeks-bienchen.png

Headcanon, activate!
http://cdn.derpiboo.ru/media/BAhbBlsHOgZmSSJfMjAxMi8wOS8wMy8xN18zNl81M18yNDFfOD kyNTFfX1VOT1BUX19zYWZlX3ByaW5jZXNzX2NlbGVzdGlhX3Bo aWxvbWVlbmFfc2Nyb2xsX2Fza2NlbGVzdGlhBjoGRVQ/89251__safe_princess-celestia_philomeena_scroll_askcelestia.png

[SiuiS]

Wow. Fell asleep and never actually hit 'submit'. I'm Lucky this was still on my screen!



Though how they go about to restore balance would be important. It could be argued that NMM was pure evil given that a forever-lasting night would eventually kill off most life on the planet.

Okay, a big thing here, pardon my vehemence.

NO IT WOULD NOT.

Ponies control the seasons.
The sun and moon are conceptually wielded by royalty.Weather is made on a factory.

So why the hell is darkness that really just turns everything purply goin to end in the heat death of Equestria?! Thermodynamics isn't an immutable law of existence, it's a pep-talking earth pony with an interest in volcanoes.

If we assume that harmony is a latent magical force, that friendship can conquer eternal winter, and that physics itself can be beaten by DeLancie until I crawls back with Stockholm, then we assume ponies could survive a thousand years of darkness. Doing otherwise has no basis.

[Lix Lorn]

Seconded forcefully. I am 100% sure that when she said a thousand years of night, she meant night.

The world would not die. The ponies would just not be able to get a suntan.

[Tiki Snakes]

The world would not die. The ponies would just not be able to get a suntan.

And the vegetables might get a bit Gothy.

[Alabenson]

Sweeet.

I have resigned myself to the fact that it's going to be nightmarish (ahaha) getting ahold of any ponies over here - even more so because I really haven't got the space - or the hair-dealing-with-skills - for brushables, and getting the blind bag ones is even more difficult. (And the prices of ebay are starting to creep up as well. *sigh*)

I find myself in a similar situation; the only Toys R Us anywhere near where I live is still a painfully long drive, and their pony section is very small, so for the most part I'm stuck buying ponies online.

I was able to grab a Favorites set off of ebay, but for the most part those prices are completely nuts.

[Deadly]

Deadly:
Chapter 3 was good. Minor nitpick:
“I see, not a single heart's beat? That is very strange indeed,”

This doesn't rhyme. May I suggest:
“I see, not a single heart's beat? I wonder what could cause such a feat."

Thanks. Kinda depends on how strict of a rhyme you want, I suppose. I think beat and deed can pass for a rhyme. Poetic license and all :smallwink: But I'll consider your suggestion.

[SiuiS]

Meeeehhhhhh.... @__________@

Sore throat, sinuses are filled to the brim with refuse, I'm echausted so much that it's an effort to even type this, I am SICK.

How's your Labor Day weekend going? Mine SUCKS.

Seriously? Ugh. That sucks.

Well... Dang.


Greetings,

I don't really understand what is actually going on in here :smallwink:, but may I ask if somebody knows some facts about the third season? Like, when it is going to start, if it has a full run of 26 episodes and why didn't I get a pink Fluttershy T-Shirt for my birthday? :(

1- not soon enough. Rumor mill says possibly October, but no way to know.
2- 13 episodes, to fulfill syndication rights. Which means we had better hope for a fourth season, aye?
3- because I don't know your address, birthday or shirt size.


yes yes yes yes yes yes

went by ToysRUs before going into work

walked back to the pony are(which they had moved again)

saw one Favorites set

YOINK!

(or MINE! in the tone of voice of a seagull from Nemo if you prefer)

and now Nightmare Moon, Trixie Lulamoon, and DJ-Pon3 are mine!!!!

Jealous~


If you do it, make less effort to blend in than usual. Trixie it up to 11 and break the dial off. To balance it out, you see.

Sounds legit. There's math involved.


....

I wonder how long I spent on my post before my browser crashed. Crud, and I lost the image dump I was doing too. :smallsigh:

Ouch. Know that feel, man.
Are those... Doom enemies?


And the vegetables might get a bit Gothy.

Maybe. I don't think bunnicula would mind.
Besides, I sincerely doubt that they don't have greenhouses or hydroponics.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Maybe. I don't think bunnicula would mind.
Besides, I sincerely doubt that they don't have greenhouses or hydroponics.

Or you know, Earth ponies don't precisely need daylight to make food grow.

[Tvtyrant]

I have a few points for the current discussion.

1. We know that crops don't grow in the cold, and that the sun warms the planet (clearing the skies to let the sun warm up the snow). Unless the moon puts out considerable heat, they would eventually starve because their crops "can't grow in this cold." Evidence from Winter Wrap Up and Heart's Warming Eve.

2. Disharmony is inherently dangerous for Ponykind. It is mentioned in the first episode that keeping the moon in the sky was disharmonious, and disharmony draws Windigos and could have freed Discord. It would be tragic to be NMM and watch Discord snatch your victory from you.

3. NMM attempted to kill them several times, including dropping them down the side of a cliff. That makes her evil in my book, since she could as easily have grabbed Twilight Sparkle and took her to an island away from the elements.

[Admiral Squish]

Hey ponythread!

Does season 3 have a start date yet?

[BlasTech]

Hey ponythread!

Does season 3 have a start date yet?

Not to my knowledge.

[Beacon of Chaos]

Thanks. Kinda depends on how strict of a rhyme you want, I suppose. I think beat and deed can pass for a rhyme. Poetic license and all :smallwink: But I'll consider your suggestion.
No problem, if it sounds okay to you that's fine, just figured I'd chime in. :smallsmile:


Ouch. Know that feel, man.
Are those... Doom enemies?
YEEEEEEESSSSSSSS!

It's actually from a tumblr called doommonsters* which actually has some of the cutest lil' hellbeasts you ever saw. The Cyberdemon is apparantly a brony. Even in the darkest depths of hell, there is enough love for pony. (Pain Elemental is best pony)

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/116/3/b/ponies_0_by_vaneetra-d4xoapx.png

*no link since it has a lot of swearing and some violence. I'm sure you can find it based on what I've posted.

[otakuryoga]

Hey ponythread!

Does season 3 have a start date yet?

not yet...

but as they are re-showing the best royal wedding ever this Saturday, i hold out hope that they will announce a date sometime during that hour

[Aotrs Commander]

Okay, a big thing here, pardon my vehemence.

NO IT WOULD NOT.

Ponies control the seasons.
The sun and moon are conceptually wielded by royalty.Weather is made on a factory.

So why the hell is darkness that really just turns everything purply goin to end in the heat death of Equestria?! Thermodynamics isn't an immutable law of existence, it's a pep-talking earth pony with an interest in volcanoes.

If we assume that harmony is a latent magical force, that friendship can conquer eternal winter, and that physics itself can be beaten by DeLancie until I crawls back with Stockholm, then we assume ponies could survive a thousand years of darkness. Doing otherwise has no basis.

I just as vehmently disagree.

The sun has more value than just providing illumination. Or are you suggesting that if Celestia went bonkers and went Daymare Sun, there would absolutely no reprecussions of eternal daylight?

No, sorry, not buying that one even remotely.

That sort of thing must have serious consequences, if it has no ill-effects, if it brings no hardships at all to the civilisations, it renders the whole thing utterly meaningless. If all eternal night means it that the Elements saved the world from moderate illumination inconvieniance, it devalues their efforts; because they didn't save the world, they merely prevented, I dunno, a slight increase in the number of accidents caused due to poor lighting. That's not exactly the stuff of legends.

And it makes Nightmare Moon a joke on the level of Mr Burns or Silver Age DC villains; a petulant child throwing a tantrum, not a genuinely dangerous and tragically corrupted monster. And that, in turn, makes Luna's redemption hold less value.

And I don't agree with any of that.

I will grant that it may not cause total extinction, but it WILL have consequences, starting with massive food shortages, especially in the short term. (And you can say goodbye to Sweet Apple Acres, unless someone can figure out how to emulate sunlight pretty damn fast, 'cos green plants need sunlight to grow (sorta notoriously); and if you disregard somethign as fundemental as that, heck, you may as well say ponies really are made of candy and don't actually need to eat except for pleasure or something while you're at it.)

"Magic does it" is not a blanket excuse to totally ignore every single basic fundemental precept of physics.

That is an absolute deal-breaker for me. And if that is truly the case, then it's no longer a dynamic, florishing world, it's just a cartoon. It may as well be looney tunes or something, because at that point the content might be amusing, but all the depth, all the substance, all the flavour of the world is gone, leaving it as two-dimensional as cardboard and as stale as month-old muffins.


I have a few points for the current discussion.

1. We know that crops don't grow in the cold, and that the sun warms the planet (clearing the skies to let the sun warm up the snow). Unless the moon puts out considerable heat, they would eventually starve because their crops "can't grow in this cold." Evidence from Winter Wrap Up and Heart's Warming Eve.

2. Disharmony is inherently dangerous for Ponykind. It is mentioned in the first episode that keeping the moon in the sky was disharmonious, and disharmony draws Windigos and could have freed Discord. It would be tragic to be NMM and watch Discord snatch your victory from you.

3. NMM attempted to kill them several times, including dropping them down the side of a cliff. That makes her evil in my book, since she could as easily have grabbed Twilight Sparkle and took her to an island away from the elements.

Exactly.

AotrsCom
Finally got the US base set up enough to actually put some troops in it. I dispatched Nighthaunt to take command - she's been a good, solid sergeant - and sent her a dozen new personnel with which to wean something useful from.

In the meantime, the new Peons arrived. A couple showed promise, so I recruited Horror and Bitter Chill to the ranks. The former is a bit flightly, but a solid shot - she already mde her first kill as we took down another UFO.

With increased people, I sent a few promotions round. Hopereaver I promoted to Colonel (which means she gets to do all the paper work - no flies on me!)I promoted Derpy and myself to Captain (because I musn't stay too far behind, and Derpy deserves it), and Klastat, Gloomwrack, Darkflay and Hellrime to Sergeants, again not before time...

We've wracked quite a store of Elerium, so I sent some over to the new base, with a few other bits. We haven't found a use for it yet, but the supply is plenty sufficient, I think...

I realised we had literally hundreds of alien alloys, so I sold most if it off; at the rate we accumulate it, what little we need for personal armour will soon be replenished. That netted us nearly five million alone...

Still critically short of storage space, however... Unlive and learn. Unfortunately, it might be nearly another month until we can demolish the radars to provide some extra room, or even place one in the little space that's left, as new facilities are still under construction...

Nighthaunt's recruits are a bit poor, but there were a few salvagable... I've sent her another seven, hopefully she might make a decent squad of eight or so out of the twenty "hopefuls..."

[maximus25]

I've been hearing that season three is coming out in October.

[Tiki Snakes]

That sort of thing must have serious consequences,

It would have. Just not scientific ones. I'd expect to see evil spirits, creatures of darkness, plantlife getting weird and weather becoming stormy and uncooperative. The hearts of ponies would grow grim, windigoes may be attracted (if not extinct) and equestria would slowly break apart under fear and mistrust.

NMM would reign from Canterlot unnapposed, aloof and cruel and surrounded by increasingly corrupt and sycophantic nobles.

It would, in many respects, start to resemble a high-colour version of the Berserk Setting (Post-Eclipse) and with every possible mythic and thematic link to Night you can imagine. Equestria would become a pulpy horror setting, with a Vampire in every tower and the roads unsafe to travel because of monsters.

Edit - The apples would still grow, but would become smaller, pale and mean. Perhaps even turning sour. Pumpkins now grow like weeds, and only constant effort keeps the vast Pumpkin Patches from consuming too much of the available arable land.

[Alabenson]

I just as vehmently disagree.

The sun has more value than just providing illumination. Or are you suggesting that if Celestia went bonkers and wen Daymare Sun, there would absolutely no reprecussions of eternal daylight? No, sorry, not buying that one even remotely.

That sort of thing must have serious consequences, if it has no ill-effects, if it brings no hardships at all to the civilisations, it renders the whole thing utterly meaningless. If all eternal night means it that the Elements saved the world from moderate illumination inconvieniance, it devalues their efforts; because they didn't save the world, they merely prevent, I dunno, a slight increase in the number of accidents caused due to poor lighting. That's not exactly the stuff of legends. It makes Nightmare Moon a joke on the level of Mr Burns or Silver Age DC villains; a petulant child throwing a tantrum, not a genuinely dangerous and tragically corrupted monster. And that, in turn, makes Luna's redemption hold less value.

And I don't agree with any of that.

I will grant that it mayy not cause extinction, but it WILL have consequences, starting with massive food shortages, especially in the short term. (And you can say goodbye to Sweet Apple Acres, unless someone can figure out how to emulate sunlight pretty damn fast, 'cos green plants need sunlight to grow (sorta notoriously); and if you disregard that, heck, you may as well say ponies really are made of candy and don't actually need to eat except for pleasure or something while you're at it.)

"Magic does it" is not a blanket excuse to totally ignore every single basic fundemental precept of physics.

That is an absolute deal-breaker for me. And if that is truely the case, then it's no longer a dynamic, florishing world, it's just a cartoon. It may as well be looney tunes or something, because at that point the content might be amusing, but all the depth, all the substance, all the flavour of the world is gone, leaving it as two-dimensional as cardboard and as stale as month-old muffins.

I feel I should point out that, from what I understand, according to Word of Faust NMM's plan would have in fact have killed off Equestria's plant life. Also there was something about a rein of evil over Equestria as well, and I'm fairly sure that would have been bad as well.

[Soras Teva Gee]

I feel I should point out that, from what I understand, according to Word of Faust NMM's plan would have in fact have killed off Equestria's plant life. Also there was something about a rein of evil over Equestria as well, and I'm fairly sure that would have been bad as well.

I believe I have seen this quote and "reign of evil" is not the same thing as eternal winter.

We're talking about a place where magic actually factually raises the sun and moon. That is sufficiently different enough on its own to throw out any resemblances to Earth universe physics as isolated coincidences.

We can take nothing for certain or extrapolate on any sort of physics basis as the science (talking about the fundamental idea here) of Equestria is different.

Sufficiently different that we should take nothing for granted as a starting point, not merely the same unless shown.


EDIT: Yes we have "era of evil" (http://comments.deviantart.com/4/1603670/2282753953) not reign, but nothing about say the implications of no-sun=no-heat.

[Maxtronaut]

*cough, cough, weeeezzz*

Does *sniffle* anypony around her have any ideas for a ponified X-COM name?

Uggghhhh... Being sick sucks. @_____@

[One Tin Soldier]

So. I had a dream last night.

It started out with me in my little college apartment. I heard a knock at the door. When I went to look through the peephole, I couldn't see anything, so I opened the door. And who was standing there but our very own Pinkie Pie?

She said she'd heard I was feeling down recently, and she'd come to cheer me up. Now, she's everyone's friend, so she knew that a big, hyperactive party wasn't the way to do it for me. So instead, she offered to go with me on a friend-date.

I reluctantly accepted, and the day began. We went to various places around town, trying out food, browsing stores, sitting and talking in a cafe for a while. She waved to practically everyone, and I waved to the people I knew. By the time the dream was over, I was feeling much better. We walked back up the stairs to my apartment, and she stopped in the doorway and said this:

"Well, it's time for me to go now, but tonight was suuuuuper fun! We should do it again sometime! But right now you've gotta wake up. Don't worry, I'll be back!"

I closed the door and went to bed, thinking about how odd her phrasing had been.

And then I woke up.

It was a very vivid dream, even now twelve hours after I woke up. I'm not sure what to make of it, although a small part of me hopes that it wasn't entirely my imagination and that some essence of Pinkie Pie really did come to cheer me up when I needed it badly.

Even if that's not the case, it was a very good dream, and I hope to remember it. And, of course, Pinkie Pie has /just/ nudged over Fluttershy in my internal rankings.

My name is Pinkie Pie
And I am here to say
I'm gonna make you smile
And I will brighten up your day~

Ok, yeah, several pages late, but that is an excellent dream. I feel envious.

I wound up starting a new game in X-COM,and I'm kinda glad I did. I was able to get up the upgrade tree much faster, and I've only lost maybe 5 soldiers through the whole game. Granted, that's with doing a lot of reloads, but still. Right now I'm facing down Ethereals, with a mix of powered and flying armor. (Though it's proving really hard to get enough Elerium for all my things)

[Pokonic]

Random pictures

Headcanon, activate!
http://cdn.derpiboo.ru/media/BAhbBlsHOgZmSSJfMjAxMi8wOS8wMy8xN18zNl81M18yNDFfOD kyNTFfX1VOT1BUX19zYWZlX3ByaW5jZXNzX2NlbGVzdGlhX3Bo aWxvbWVlbmFfc2Nyb2xsX2Fza2NlbGVzdGlhBjoGRVQ/89251__safe_princess-celestia_philomeena_scroll_askcelestia.png


......Why has this not been suggested before?

I feel I should point out that, from what I understand, according to Word of Faust NMM's plan would have in fact have killed off Equestria's plant life. Also there was something about a rein of evil over Equestria as well, and I'm fairly sure that would have been bad as well.

Well, the ponies would have suffered, realy. When you get down to it, thats bad enough (IE: ruining a entire kingdoms worth of colorful equines.)

[Kd7sov]

It would have. Just not scientific ones. I'd expect to see evil spirits, creatures of darkness, plantlife getting weird and weather becoming stormy and uncooperative. The hearts of ponies would grow grim, windigoes may be attracted (if not extinct) and equestria would slowly break apart under fear and mistrust.

NMM would reign from Canterlot unnapposed, aloof and cruel and surrounded by increasingly corrupt and sycophantic nobles.

It would, in many respects, start to resemble a high-colour version of the Berserk Setting (Post-Eclipse) and with every possible mythic and thematic link to Night you can imagine. Equestria would become a pulpy horror setting, with a Vampire in every tower and the roads unsafe to travel because of monsters.

Edit - The apples would still grow, but would become smaller, pale and mean. Perhaps even turning sour. Pumpkins now grow like weeds, and only constant effort keeps the vast Pumpkin Patches from consuming too much of the available arable land.

And you assume this to be fact because...?

I'm willing to entertain it as a theory, especially if you can back it up with information from the show or the people behind the show. But saying "this is what will happen because it is what I would do if I were in charge" (or whatever other reason; you don't actually give one) is not valid reasoning.


We're talking about a place where magic actually factually raises the sun and moon. That is sufficiently different enough on its own to throw out any resemblances to Earth universe physics as isolated coincidences.

We can take nothing for certain or extrapolate on any sort of physics basis as the science (talking about the fundamental idea here) of Equestria is different.

Sufficiently different that we should take nothing for granted as a starting point, not merely the same unless shown.

...You, I think, I will have to agree to disagree with, because I don't have the time or patience to try arguing with someone who says "[x], therefore no physics." I will, therefore, only say that I believe your conclusions to be flat wrong.

[Aotrs Commander]

We're actually going to go to "it's magic, so physics are completely irrelevant?"



I give up.




...You, I think, I will have to agree to disagree with, because I don't have the time or patience to try arguing with someone who says "[x], therefore no physics." I will, therefore, only say that I believe your conclusions to be flat wrong.

So I'm not completely alone; I was honestly beginning to wonder.

Thank you, Kd7sov, I seriously and genuinely needed to see that, and not just because of this particular debate on the thread, either.

[Alabenson]

We're actually going to go to "it's magic, so physics are completely irrelevant?"



I give up.

Honestly, I tend to agree with you on this. Just because some things in Equestria work differently than in our world is not necessarily proof that other things are different as well. Celestia raising and lowering the sun doesn't mean that plants don't rely on the sun for photosynthesis.

[One Tin Soldier]

......Why has this not been suggested before?


I know, right? It seems kind of obvious.

So... I'm wondering, how many ponies here have read Silent Ponyville?

[Thanqol]

We're actually going to go to "it's magic, so physics are completely irrelevant?"



I give up.

I'm actually going to go "It's Superpowers so physics are completely irrelevant". Just assume that ponies have farming and weather superpowers. Zap Apples, for instance, patently don't need daylight.

[Tiki Snakes]

And you assume this to be fact because...?

I'm willing to entertain it as a theory, especially if you can back it up with information from the show or the people behind the show. But saying "this is what will happen because it is what I would do if I were in charge" (or whatever other reason; you don't actually give one) is not valid reasoning.

I don't assume it to be fact at all. It's just how I feel it should work, and how I would like it to work.
It's barely even a theory, being merely something like my personal fanon. (I do think it fits with the feel of the show better than the death of all plantlife and the starvation/freezing based death of all life in equestria, though.)

I certainly didn't intend to give the impression otherwise.

[maximus25]

Eternal night would also bring disharmony between ponies. It'd be Hearts Warming all over again, ponies would be split, windigos would come, freezing winter.

Even if the lack of sun didn't kill plants, eternal winter would. And no one to save them this time.

[asdflove]

and The one and only Belkar Bitterleaf! http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponified-SEXY-SHOELESS-GOD-OF-WAR-325000257


Out of the blue I show up with art. I love Ponifiying things.
http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Haley-Ponified-324734385
http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponified-Elan-324688093
http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/ElanXHaley-Ponified-Cuddle-324748159

(Sorry That I just linked it, they are far too big to put here as an image, even in a spoiler box)

And now V. But I'm not super happy with this one. Not androgynous enough.
http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponified-Vaarsuvius-324948639
Aaaand Roy's turn
http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponifed-Roy-324959487
Durkon- http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponified-Durkon-324984292



http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Group-Shot-325193295 They be all together!

[Merellis]

I believe I have seen this quote and "reign of evil" is not the same thing as eternal winter.

We're talking about a place where magic actually factually raises the sun and moon. That is sufficiently different enough on its own to throw out any resemblances to Earth universe physics as isolated coincidences.

We can take nothing for certain or extrapolate on any sort of physics basis as the science (talking about the fundamental idea here) of Equestria is different.

Sufficiently different that we should take nothing for granted as a starting point, not merely the same unless shown.


EDIT: Yes we have "era of evil" (http://comments.deviantart.com/4/1603670/2282753953) not reign, but nothing about say the implications of no-sun=no-heat.

So because she doesn't say that the lack of sun would mean a lack of nourishment for the plants, that would then mean that nothing changes? Not sure I like where you're going with this as you're opening doors to interpret a lot of things based on what Faust didn't say in there.

NMM will kill everypony, because Faust didn't say she was a pacifist. NMM will create a harem for herself, because Faust didn't explain whether or not alicorns would want physical affection.

But enough about that. Faust did not mention what NMM would do specifically, nor did she mention the implications of any of this. So anything could have happened, and until someone says that the plants don't need sunlight to grow in Equestria, I'm going to assume the world works as intended until explained differently.

I mean, Gravity works as per usual, and no one's bothered to explain if it does work or not.

[OracleofWuffing]

Dah-LEK, not -lick (the song is still right). And... how could you know about daleks and not know that...?! I...what? I mean, they refer to themselves when they talk like, all the time... They give me a run for my money in the arrogance stakes...
Eh, I've been through so many French and Italian classes, the way short I and short E are pronounced in American English are identical.:smalltongue:

But, uh, to answer the question, I was never able to sit down to watch Quantum Leap, so my only real exposure to Daleks were in an unlicensed video game that used pictures of them, so I only ever saw it written down rather than pronounced.


I mean, Gravity works as per usual, and no one's bothered to explain if it does work or not.

http://i.imgur.com/lJFOJ.png

[Forum Explorer]

:smallsigh:....Just noticed

Heh, expected more chaos over saying that I was a brony given how it was before.


Not much to say really besides Yay or aha we called it. But we do need a new element of denial.


Seconded forcefully. I am 100% sure that when she said a thousand years of night, she meant night.

The world would not die. The ponies would just not be able to get a suntan.

I'm sure the consequences would be more severe then that.


Ok, yeah, several pages late, but that is an excellent dream. I feel envious.

I wound up starting a new game in X-COM,and I'm kinda glad I did. I was able to get up the upgrade tree much faster, and I've only lost maybe 5 soldiers through the whole game. Granted, that's with doing a lot of reloads, but still. Right now I'm facing down Ethereals, with a mix of powered and flying armor. (Though it's proving really hard to get enough Elerium for all my things)

I don't get how you ponies can play through so quickly.


It would have. Just not scientific ones. I'd expect to see evil spirits, creatures of darkness, plantlife getting weird and weather becoming stormy and uncooperative. The hearts of ponies would grow grim, windigoes may be attracted (if not extinct) and equestria would slowly break apart under fear and mistrust.

NMM would reign from Canterlot unnapposed, aloof and cruel and surrounded by increasingly corrupt and sycophantic nobles.

It would, in many respects, start to resemble a high-colour version of the Berserk Setting (Post-Eclipse) and with every possible mythic and thematic link to Night you can imagine. Equestria would become a pulpy horror setting, with a Vampire in every tower and the roads unsafe to travel because of monsters.

Edit - The apples would still grow, but would become smaller, pale and mean. Perhaps even turning sour. Pumpkins now grow like weeds, and only constant effort keeps the vast Pumpkin Patches from consuming too much of the available arable land.

See I like this explanation. But again more severe. The ponies would have to work themselves to the bone and just the whole thing causes masses of despair.

[Thanqol]

I mean, Gravity works as per usual, and no one's bothered to explain if it does work or not.

Um, about that (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9zexEs-HIc#t=3m52)

[Merellis]

Um, about that (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9zexEs-HIc#t=3m52)

Isn't Pinkie always the exception? :P

[Thanqol]

Isn't Pinkie always the exception? :P

Okay. Pegasus flight is aerodynamically impossible.

C'mon guys, didn't the Brony Physics Video (http://youtu.be/muVfidujxRg) teach you anything? You just can't argue that MLP follows remotely the same laws of physics as the real world. The evidence against outweighs the evidence for by an order of magnitude. Are you not scientists? Don't you base your laws on observation rather than bullheaded application of dogma? Doesn't observation clearly tell you that Equestria operates on Narrative Laws rather than consistent physical laws?

[SiuiS]

Or you know, Earth ponies don't precisely need daylight to make food grow.

These are functionally identical concepts.


I have a few points for the current discussion.

1. We know that crops don't grow in the cold,

We know crops don't grow in winter. Winter is the one of no crops. It's thematic, not necessarily causative. And using real world examples, we get plenty of crops in winter. So either this is wrong because it doesn't have a logical basis or it's wrong based on the knowledge of the real world we have.


and that the sun warms the planet (clearing the skies to let the sun warm up the snow)

Clearing the skies, to let the sun shine in; removing clouds; melt the white snow; all Things the ponies themselves do. The sun doesn't necessarily have anything to do with that at such a huge level. We see the ponies plowing snow, which means they participate in the snow clearing. And Pinkie's breaking up the ice? Ice melts in the sun, duh. But while sun melts ice, we have no reason to think no sun causes ice. Because of one important thing that is so fundamental, no pony Tess to remember it even when it's pointed out.

night time is not a lack of daytime, it is emanated by the moon just like daytime is emanate by the sun. If neither sun not noon rose, it wouldn't be night, it would be some terrible void.

The sky works on a wheel. The night time comes out on the moon, like an aura. So why again is eternal night freezing? Daytime is warm and bright, night is cool as dark. Cool, not cold. The moon could easily emanate its own ambient temperature; and why not? It's as much a sky construct as the sun, and not merely a rock which reflects from the the other side of some horizon.


Unless the moon puts out considerable heat, they would eventually starve because their crops "can't grow in this cold." Evidence from Winter Wrap Up and Heart's Warming Eve.

Considerable heat? No. Sufficient to survive; San Francisco is 'temperate' enough that people are okay with sleeping outdoors, but I still find it butt-ass cold. There's a difference between paradisical and sufficient to allow life to go on. After about a week of fretting, I fully expect hydroponics to become a thing, and everyone to grow their own crops for trading. because hydroponics are within the realm of their technology (complex astronomical telescopes, calculus, film cameras), within the realm of their scientific understanding (Supernaturals, advanced medicinal techniques such as gel capsules), and within realm of reason (eternal night ain't gonna stop no apple from apple-in' I tell you what).

[auote]2. Disharmony is inherently dangerous for Ponykind. It is mentioned in the first episode that keeping the moon in the sky was disharmonious, and disharmony draws Windigos and could have freed Discord. It would be tragic to be NMM and watch Discord snatch your victory from you.[/quote]

You're mincing terms. Disharmony on a natural level throws nature out of whack; disharmony on a social level is what is what caused Windigos. And windigos coming from a global civil strife is different than windigos coming because it's dark and ponies are scared. As long as there are Pinkie Pies to cheer people, groups would shrink, but there would be more of them. Life would go on. This follows from the social interactions we have seen in the show, where disharmony of nature resulting in deep freeze does not.


3. NMM attempted to kill them several times, including dropping them down the side of a cliff. That makes her evil in my book, since she could as easily have grabbed Twilight Sparkle and took her to an island away from the elements.

I didn't say nightmare moon wasn't evil. I said eternal night would not caus the earth's hear to seep into space, killing all crops, causing ice to form and beginning the thermodynamic steps of the planet's destruction.


I just as vehmently disagree.

The sun has more value than just providing illumination. Or are you suggesting that if Celestia went bonkers and went Daymare Sun, there would absolutely no reprecussions of eternal daylight?

Sure there would be. It would be hot - like, 90° F all the time, and that's terrible. Nonpony could sleep. Nocturnal wildlife would go ape**** and riot. Luna would be pissed. Twilight, lacking REM sleep, would eventually go nuclear.

The planet WOULD NOT boil. The atmosphere WOULD NOT burn away. The constant light WOULD NOT evaporate away all moisture. Because daytime is presented as an aura which has certain properties, which are influenced but not ruled by interplay between the seasons. I it was summer when she went Dayflare Sun, it would suck unless you invested in parasols an lemonade stands. If she did it during winter, well, that would be pretty cool except for the snow blindness.


No, sorry, not buying that one even remotely.

That sort of thing must have serious consequences, if it has no ill-effects, if it brings no hardships at all to the civilisations, it renders the whole thing utterly meaningless.

If all eternal night means it that the Elements saved the world from moderate illumination inconvieniance, it devalues their efforts; because they didn't save the world, they merely prevented, I dunno, a slight increase in the number of accidents caused due to poor lighting. That's not exactly the stuff of legends.

Pffffft. Respectfully, shut up and listen to yourself!
"if this one thing is potentially wrong then I'm going to throw the baby out with the bath water" is not a valid argument and I expect better from you, commodore. You say you're an engineer? If we change how conductivity woks, that changes how conductivity works. It does not suddenly unravel all of space time and make life meaningless!

Physics is fine. So long as you take into account established differences. Such as night time not being an absence of daytime. For someone who argued that elemental cold is not merely an absence of heat, this is something I would expect you of all abominably evil creatures to be able to take in stride.

Is assuming, base on visual evidence, that night time is actually an only light radiated by whatever the flick the moon is, and has its own properties other than being 'not daylight anymore' so difficult? No wonder Luna went batty, everypony's thought she had the easy job.

Nightmare moon would be a terrible ruler, ruining the country like a cross between the king from Dragon Tears and Scar from lion king. A reign of evil unparalleled. But not the deep freeze. I take umbridge with satin Dracula ruling the world causes it to e destroyed (literally), not with causing it o be destroyed (figuratively).


And it makes Nightmare Moon a joke on the level of Mr Burns or Silver Age DC villains; a petulant child throwing a tantrum, not a genuinely dangerous and tragically corrupted monster. And that, in turn, makes Luna's redemption hold less value.

She already IS a joke. A spoiled princess with super powers, who on a tantrum so profound it twisted her soul and made her stop holding back. Which is no more a slight change than being filled with negative energy is a slight change; and that's what makes undead evil, is the slight perversion of their viewpoint. You're not 'racially insane' because you're insane, you're 'racially insane' because somethig as camp as a startrek technician reversing your polarity changes you enough to sill be measured by sanity, but fail the test. You o all folks know small changes at the base level cause huge changes. A plane takes off at 20° angles. Too little, no lift. To much, stall and crash. Two degrees isn't much, but it's still huge.



I will grant that it may not cause total extinction, but it WILL have consequences, starting with massive food shortages, especially in the short term. (And you can say goodbye to Sweet Apple Acres, unless someone can figure out how to emulate sunlight pretty damn fast, 'cos green plants need sunlight to grow (sorta notoriously); and if you disregard somethign as fundemental as that, heck, you may as well say ponies really are made of candy and don't actually need to eat except for pleasure or something while you're at it.)

Plants can survive for a Lon time on moonlight. In fact, they REQUIRE darkness as much as sunlight. It changes their metabolic processes, and causes them to take in oxygen and respire carbon dioxide, which is why trees on a space ship is zero sum. Plants can also survive (well, "survive") off of torchlight. At least as well as a human can live off Kraft cheese and doughnuts.


"Magic does it" is not a blanket excuse to totally ignore every single basic fundemental precept of physics.

No, but "Physics except for all the instances where not only would physics destroy this universe but we also had some explanation applied, yet we won't extrapolate because physics" is also not going to cut it.

In a normal scenario, we can assume physics is the baseline. In Equestria, we really can't. So both the magical explanation and the physical one are equally incorrect until one or the other can be backed up. "But I like physics" is not a back up, it's a bias. I your argument holds under is own weight we will accept it, but if it's circular then we won't.


That is an absolute deal-breaker for me. And if that is truly the case, then it's no longer a dynamic, florishing world, it's just a cartoon. It may as well be looney tunes or something, because at that point the content might be amusing, but all the depth, all the substance, all the flavour of the world is gone, leaving it as two-dimensional as cardboard and as stale as month-old muffins.


Unfortunate, but I assume hyperbolic. If night time functions differently because it alone is magic, then nothin matters so lets all abandon ship? You're far more rational than that.


I feel I should point out that, from what I understand, according to Word of Faust NMM's plan would have in fact have killed off Equestria's plant life.

Nope.


Also there was something about a rein of evil over Equestria as well, and I'm fairly sure that would have been bad as well.

Yep. Reign of evil isn't a problem on a mechanical level though. My issue is with people making the fallacious leap from "reign of darkness and evil" to "everything freezes and dies just because".

And I would like to say something heretical.

Word of Faust means jack diddly squat.
It's nice to think about, but either we ignore word of Faust, or we listen to word of Faust - which says itself that it's not worth squat, and so we don't listen to it. It's like having an order to disobey this order. Either you disobey or... You disobey.


Honestly, I tend to agree with you on this. Just because some things in Equestria work differently than in our world is not necessarily proof that other things are different as well. Celestia raising and lowering the sun doesn't mean that plants don't rely on the sun for photosynthesis.

The moon emanates light. Even if it only reflected sunlight, that's enough sunlight since its constant. Eternal full moon, remember? The people making assumptions about chain reactions are the ones saying everything dies and freezes.


Eternal night would also bring disharmony between ponies. It'd be Hearts Warming all over again, ponies would be split, windigos would come, freezing winter.

Even if the lack of sun didn't kill plants, eternal winter would. And no one to save them this time.

why would eternal night being disharmony amongst ponies?
There's no basis for it. It's night time so let's all change alignment? The sun isn't coming up so let's purge the earth of the pegasi menace? Now that wee got no light, blame and lynch the unicorns?

How does eternal night cause ponies to turn on each other enough to bring in Windigos?

[SiuiS]

So because she doesn't say that the lack of sun would mean a lack of nourishment for the plants, that would then mean that nothing changes? Not sure I like where you're going with this as you're opening doors to interpret a lot of things based on what Faust didn't say in there.

I dislike the tendency for Internet arguments to become fencing with hyperbole. I Gould probably stop contributing XD


NMM will kill everypony, because Faust didn't say she was a pacifist.

NOPE! She's going to rule, which means subjects. NMM said that herself, darn near.


NMM will create a harem for herself, because Faust didn't explain whether or not alicorns would want physical affection.

... Eternally romantic moonlight, equestria's national sport becomes colt cuddling.
I'm Really not seeing how this Eternal Night thing is a bad deal...
Do you think she's taking applications? I could spell one of the more burnt-out haremites.


I'm going to assume the world works as intended until explained differently.

Good. But intention and physics aren't synonymous.


Isn't Pinkie always the exception? :P

Gonna agree here. Pinky is not an indication of physical laws.


Okay. Pegasus flight is aerodynamically impossible.

Incorrect...


C'mon guys, didn't the Brony Physics Video (http://youtu.be/muVfidujxRg) teach you anything? You just can't argue that MLP follows remotely the same laws of physics as the real world. The evidence against outweighs the evidence for by an order of magnitude. Are you not scientists? Don't you base your laws on observation rather than bullheaded application of dogma? Doesn't observation clearly tell you that Equestria operates on Narrative Laws rather than consistent physical laws?

Magic.

No, shut up. Not like that.
Pegasus flight is acknowledge as magic. Magi exists. Having a magical flight aid is understandable. Using that to mean nothing is the same is not.

Adding a property we do not have in reality which functions alongside known laws is a linear change. Presuming that everything runs on naritivium is a quadratic change. Such a leap is, as far as discussion goes, unacceptable.

Saying 'narrative so your physics doesn't matter' is as immediately false as 'physics must exist or nothing matters'. Do no fall into the camp you argue with, silly.

While narrative physics is the correct meta answer, it isn't worthwhile for the sale of discussion, which is the point.

[Thanqol]

Magic.

No, shut up. Not like that.
Pegasus flight is acknowledge as magic. Magi exists. Having a magical flight aid is understandable. Using that to mean nothing is the same is not.

I think that's codswallop. I've always hated all the suggestions and implications that pegasus flight runs on magic, and especially the idea that whenever they do a trick they're casting spells. Where's the slightest suggestion that pegasus flight runs on magic rather than muscles and wingpower?


Adding a property we do not have in reality which functions alongside known laws is a linear change. Presuming that everything runs on naritivium is a quadratic change. Such a leap is, as far as discussion goes, unacceptable.

Saying 'narrative so your physics doesn't matter' is as immediately false as 'physics must exist or nothing matters'. Do no fall into the camp you argue with, silly.

While narrative physics is the correct meta answer, it isn't worthwhile for the sale of discussion, which is the point.

Bullocks. Narrative physics is the correct meta answer AND is worthwhile for the sake of discussion because the answer to narrative physics is "Whatever's the most interesting for the story you're trying to tell". So if you've used narrative physics to come up with a boring answer you've by definition failed at using narrative physics.

How can that not promote awesome discussion? Awesome discussion is the reason for existence of it. Applying physics' mathematical laws takes those interesting alternate concept and says 'no' while narrative laws say 'hell yes'. I know which one I'd rather be discussing.

[Merellis]

NOPE! She's going to rule, which means subjects. NMM said that herself, darn near.
I think she should still at least have the brains to kill the Mane6 along with Celestia, the former have the power to banish her again, the latter actually did banish her. Hard to reign when your two biggest enemies are still in a state of existence beyond buried corpse.




... Eternally romantic moonlight, equestria's national sport becomes colt cuddling.
I'm Really not seeing how this Eternal Night thing is a bad deal...
Do you think she's taking applications? I could spell one of the more burnt-out haremites.
... You win this round, as does NMM. Though I still prefer Luna, maybe they both have the same tastes.


Gonna agree here. Pinky is not an indication of physical laws.
I just point out her beating Rainbow Dash to every spot she was going to, by being behind her and then just being there.



Magic.

No, shut up. Not like that.
Pegasus flight is acknowledge as magic. Magi exists. Having a magical flight aid is understandable. Using that to mean nothing is the same is not.

Adding a property we do not have in reality which functions alongside known laws is a linear change. Presuming that everything runs on naritivium is a quadratic change. Such a leap is, as far as discussion goes, unacceptable.

Saying 'narrative so your physics doesn't matter' is as immediately false as 'physics must exist or nothing matters'. Do no fall into the camp you argue with, silly.

While narrative physics is the correct meta answer, it isn't worthwhile for the sale of discussion, which is the point.

This I can agree with, it's hard to discuss anything on the show if we all just answer with "Eh, it's a kids show so nothing bad will really happen." It kinda detracts from the show in a way that we've seen that bad things can happen. Hydra's that are trying to eat ponies, Diamond Dogs kidnapping ponies, a Cockatrice turning ponies to stone, GATES TO TARTURUS WITH A GUARD DOG, Changlings, Ursa Major, Dragons... Dragons, and Dragons. Heck, avalanches, rock slides, falling to your death, famine, freezing to death from Windigo's, war between races of ponies, some form of racism as well.

As happy a place Equestria is, it's still dangerous, deadly, and filled with horrors.

[SiuiS]

I think that's codswallop. I've always hated all the suggestions and implications that pegasus flight runs on magic, and especially the idea that whenever they do a trick they're casting spells. Where's the slightest suggestion that pegasus flight runs on magic rather than muscles and wingpower?

Premise: all ponies are magic.

1/3 have magical telekinesis and favored class: sorcerer.
1/3 have magical affinity with like, nature, man.
The remaining third can fly, despite lacking the build, musculature and speed fr it. This remaining third is also magical, in ways related to the sky (such as rainbows and weather).

Sure, we can assume wing power is how they fly - despite wingpower being insufficient for them to fly and that we have to hand wave it. or we can acknowledge that the chances of them catching both wind, and magical thermal currents, is greater than zero in a world with ambient magic and a race of magical winged ponies. That's less codswollop and more 'rather sound'.

Spells? As tricks? You know magic can exist outside of spells, right? That's like assuming because a thing makes noise it has language.


Bullocks. Narrative physics is the correct meta answer AND is worthwhile for the sake of discussion because the answer to narrative physics is "Whatever's the most interesting for the story you're trying to tell". So if you've used narrative physics to come up with a boring answer you've by definition failed at using narrative physics.

How can that not promote awesome discussion? Awesome discussion is the reason for existence of it. Applying physics' mathematical laws takes those interesting alternate concept and says 'no' while narrative laws say 'hell yes'. I know which one I'd rather be discussing.

Sticking to what makes sense gives a formula which can be followed outward to find new an interesting interstices in the matrix designed by these rules as we understand them, and allows for further study of 'why' when the interactions do not play out as expected.

Sticking to narativism means jack all, because a Ali's response to anything is haddock. And when thr doesn't make sense, you could just say its a comedy. It's the problem espoused with free form RP; no rules means nothing of importance matters. "it's cool" is not sufficient to explain anything within a discussion hm "it's cool" is allowed to apply to everything. You'd hve to start your premise with "let's assume this one thing because it's cool", otherwise the discussion wouldn't do anything or go anywhere. And that implicitly means we are assuming everything else is static and as is currently confirmed.

As discourse goes, it defeats itself because there is no stable reference.

[Thanqol]

This I can agree with, it's hard to discuss anything on the show if we all just answer with "Eh, it's a kids show so nothing bad will really happen." It kinda detracts from the show in a way that we've seen that bad things can happen. Hydra's that are trying to eat ponies, Diamond Dogs kidnapping ponies, a Cockatrice turning ponies to stone, GATES TO TARTURUS WITH A GUARD DOG, Changlings, Ursa Major, Dragons... Dragons, and Dragons. Heck, avalanches, rock slides, falling to your death, famine, freezing to death from Windigo's, war between races of ponies, some form of racism as well.

As happy a place Equestria is, it's still dangerous, deadly, and filled with horrors.

Urgh, you're missing the point. If you're writing a grimdark story, you can make a set of grimdark assumptions, and use those details to tell a good story. That is a valid application of narrative laws. The laws of physics would tell you that a dragon does not have an appropriate weight/wingspan ratio to maintain flight therefore you can't have it in your story.

When we're discussing a fantasy story in a dimension where things clearly operate on fantasy settings. That doesn't mean the settings are inherently benevolent. It means 'screw reality, let's tell a good story'.

[Merellis]

Urgh, you're missing the point. If you're writing a grimdark story, you can make a set of grimdark assumptions, and use those details to tell a good story. That is a valid application of narrative laws. The laws of physics would tell you that a dragon does not have an appropriate weight/wingspan ratio to maintain flight therefore you can't have it in your story.

When we're discussing a fantasy story in a dimension where things clearly operate on fantasy settings. That doesn't mean the settings are inherently benevolent. It means 'screw reality, let's tell a good story'.

I'm not even sure what point I was making anymore. Excuse the rambling idiot that I am, again. :smallannoyed: I always end up rambling like a blathering idiot, so I must have missed the point and then just jumped into some other idiocy with my words. Sorry you even had to read that nonsensical crap from me.

[Thanqol]

Premise: all ponies are magic.

I reject your premise.


1/3 have magical affinity with like, nature, man.

I reject this premise. The earth ponies have no magical affinity with anything.


The remaining third can fly, despite lacking the build, musculature and speed fr it. This remaining third is also magical, in ways related to the sky (such as rainbows and weather).

I reject this premise. This is a principle of the universe rather than an aspect of the pegasus ponies. Lots of things other than ponies that shouldn't be able to fly can fly.


Sure, we can assume wing power is how they fly - despite wingpower being insufficient for them to fly and that we have to hand wave it. or we can acknowledge that the chances of them catching both wind, and magical thermal currents, is greater than zero in a world with ambient magic and a race of magical winged ponies. That's less codswollop and more 'rather sound'.

No it's not. That's nonsense.


Spells? As tricks? You know magic can exist outside of spells, right? That's like assuming because a thing makes noise it has language.

Sophistry.


Sticking to narativism means jack all, because a Ali's response to anything is haddock. And when thr doesn't make sense, you could just say its a comedy. It's the problem espoused with free form RP; no rules means nothing of importance matters. "it's cool" is not sufficient to explain anything within a discussion hm "it's cool" is allowed to apply to everything. You'd hve to start your premise with "let's assume this one thing because it's cool", otherwise the discussion wouldn't do anything or go anywhere. And that implicitly means we are assuming everything else is static and as is currently confirmed.

As discourse goes, it defeats itself because there is no stable reference.

There is stable reference. Tonnes of it! Things fall down, weather is made in factories, magical pony princesses raising the sun and moon, etc.

Trying to add a sublayer of reference to those aspects of reality in the form of physical laws, despite clear and repeated violation of that sublayer in every episode is being needlessly obtuse and unimaginative.


EDIT: Put it this way: I don't enter your physics conferences and tell you that black holes are ascended Forces Mages who have accumulated sufficient gnosis to achieve infinite potential locked within their physical forms, you don't tell me that the characters in my stories are going to inadvertently inflict a genocide on all living things, that they would know this if they had any sense, and are therefore horrible monsters.

[SiuiS]

I think she should still at least have the brains to kill the Mane6 along with Celestia, the former have the power to banish her again, the latter actually did banish her. Hard to reign when your two biggest enemies are still in a state of existence beyond buried corpse.


Of course. Murder your enemies is understandable. Ending all Creation is not. That's my point.

Although I think he just banished Celestia. She was a creature of passion, and Eye for Eye seems fitting. Plus it lets us do an alternate universe like in Owens of the five rings, a thousand years of darkness.



This I can agree with, it's hard to discuss anything on the show if we all just answer with "Eh, it's a kids show so nothing bad will really happen." It kinda detracts from the show in a way that we've seen that bad things can happen. Hydra's that are trying to eat ponies, Diamond Dogs kidnapping ponies, a Cockatrice turning ponies to stone, GATES TO TARTURUS WITH A GUARD DOG, Changlings, Ursa Major, Dragons... Dragons, and Dragons. Heck, avalanches, rock slides, falling to your death, famine, freezing to death from Windigo's, war between races of ponies, some form of racism as well.

As happy a place Equestria is, it's still dangerous, deadly, and filled with horrors.

With one caveat; the background positivity is sufficient that a murderous three headed dog guarding horrors beyond comprehension is much less dangerous than the same would be in a different reality. Rockslides are less lethal. There is ALWAYS a ray of hope. It's a feature of the cosmology, not just a narrative artifact.


Urgh, you're missing the point. If you're writing a grimdark story, you can make a set of grimdark assumptions, and use those details to tell a good story. That is a valid application of narrative laws. The laws of physics would tell you that a dragon does not have an appropriate weight/wingspan ratio to maintain flight therefore you can't have it in your story.

When we're discussing a fantasy story in a dimension where things clearly operate on fantasy settings. That doesn't mean the settings are inherently benevolent. It means 'screw reality, let's tell a good story'.

Hyperbole. A dragon can exist by modifying physics, just as much a by tossing physics out the window.

I agree with your general point though. I fear I'll hve to concede as I won't be able to argue coherently past this point, with you specifically.

[Soras Teva Gee]

...You, I think, I will have to agree to disagree with, because I don't have the time or patience to try arguing with someone who says "[x], therefore no physics." I will, therefore, only say that I believe your conclusions to be flat wrong.


We're actually going to go to "it's magic, so physics are completely irrelevant?"

You both underestimate the sheer impossibility of ponies raising the sun and moon. This simple stated truth with visible evidence of destroys the entire stucture of the universe. This isn't "its magic so ignore physics" its magic making physics a scientific impossibility.

The Heliocentric solar system is the inevitable and only concievable result of a universe ruled by gravity. When the heliocentric model is verifiably untrue (unless you submit the Princess's and shows lie to our faces) it can only mean gravity does not function as it does. And yet gravity is the only thing that allows a star to exist in the first place, even keeping the other fundamental forces unchanged one must, MUST, have gravity for the mass of the star to hold in equilibrium and be stable. Never mind that gravity is the only force with the range sufficient to actually gather mass in any amounts.

It is effectively the sole architect of the entire universe. Change it and you must, MUST, change the entire universe.

Ponies walking on the soil of Equestria alone is completely incompatible with their own stated practice. I cannot accept such a massive change and rule that ANYTHING even remotely like physics rules the Equestrian universe. If it can be observed to still be so in a coincidental or concurrent manner that is one thing, but it should not be assumed without a solid base of observations.

(Or of course you can say the Unicorns, Princesses, and show are lying to our face)


I think that's codswallop. I've always hated all the suggestions and implications that pegasus flight runs on magic, and especially the idea that whenever they do a trick they're casting spells. Where's the slightest suggestion that pegasus flight runs on magic rather than muscles and wingpower?

Its magic from the perspective of a physics based reality. It may not be considered magic in Equestria the same way psionics are not considered magic in other settings. Such a thing can be meaningful in universe but from a physics perspective they are both magical occurences.

Compare the relative area of a hang glider next to human. Now these are little ponies if perspective comparison is to be believed, but there is not a pegasi with the area needed to provide lift.

Scootaloo with Luna's wings is more like it.

Even then having legs where you need powerful breast muscles doesn't exactly help, so give Scoots a bulging chest too. And then she could maybe fly.

Certainly not hover though.

[SiuiS]

I'm not even sure what point I was making anymore. Excuse the rambling idiot that I am, again. :smallannoyed: I always end up rambling like a blathering idiot, so I must have missed the point and then just jumped into some other idiocy with my words. Sorry you even had to read that nonsensical crap from me.

Now now, none of that. There are like, five different discussions here. It's natural that things will get muddled, but passive aggressiveness won't help. friendship is never having to pull your punches, but that doesn't mean we aren't friends at the end of the day. :smallsmile:


I reject your premise.

Your rejection is meaningless. The universe was designed around magical ponies. Saying you don't like it just means you're working from a noncanonical point of view.



I reject this premise. The earth ponies have no magical affinity with anything.


Your rejection is still meaningless.



I reject this premise. This is a principle of the universe rather than an aspect of the pegasus ponies. Lots of things other than ponies that shouldn't be able to fly can fly.

And are also magic, in the magical land of Equestria. I've already said, "I don't like it" does not a rebuttal make.



No it's not. That's nonsense.


Prove it? Makes perfect sense, you're just hung up on your dogma.
Practicing and preaching, Thanqol my dear ;)



Sophistry.


An argument that holds, based on an argument you don't like (but cannot disprove) is less fallacious and more in contention. Do something about it other than casually dismiss it, if it bothers you. Your lumping spells in under magic invalidates your stance; magic exists conceptually outside of spells. It is the art of practiced serendipity. Dismissing that just means you haven't done your homework, not that I'm splitting artificial hairs.



There is stable reference. Tonnes of it! Things fall down, weather is made in factories, magical pony princesses raising the sun and moon, etc.

Trying to add a sublayer of reference to those aspects of reality in the form of physical laws, despite clear and repeated violation of that sublayer in every episode is being needlessly obtuse and unimaginative.

Unimaginative, nothing. Sussing out a workin paradigm in this view is the height of imagination - spinning a compete out of tiny whims. And outing on blinders to focus on specific instances append all the time. Like this friend of mine who's learning to draw? He sacrifices past lessons to focus on current ones all the time. Basic anatomy goofs while working on composition. That's actually part o the process. Not liking it doesn't make it bad.

[Thanqol]

Your rejection is meaningless. The universe was designed around magical ponies. Saying you don't like it just means you're working from a noncanonical point of view.

Magic is a quantifiable thing that Unicorns do. Twilight Sparkle soapboxes about this. Non unicorn magic is dismissed as a myth and a hoax.

R.E. Pinkie Pie Exceptionalism: It's not clear what this is, but it's not magic.


And are also magic, in the magical land of Equestria. I've already said, "I don't like it" does not a rebuttal make.

Would I be correct in stating your point as:

"The laws of physics as we humans understand them all completely and fully apply to Equestria, except for the fact that they are overridden with magic in every second of every day"?

I feel pretty reasonable in saying that's a damn silly idea.


An argument that holds, based on an argument you don't like (but cannot disprove) is less fallacious and more in contention. Do something about it other than casually dismiss it, if it bothers you. Your lumping spells in under magic invalidates your stance; magic exists conceptually outside of spells. It is the art of practiced serendipity. Dismissing that just means you haven't done your homework, not that I'm splitting artificial hairs.

Again, magic is a quantifiable thing done by unicorns.


Unimaginative, nothing. Sussing out a workin paradigm in this view is the height of imagination - spinning a compete out of tiny whims. And outing on blinders to focus on specific instances append all the time. Like this friend of mine who's learning to draw? He sacrifices past lessons to focus on current ones all the time. Basic anatomy goofs while working on composition. That's actually part o the process. Not liking it doesn't make it bad.

You're going about it ass backwards. Say, "Here is the show, here are the things that happen in the show, how can we produce consistent laws from that?" is one thing. Saying "Here is the show, here is a complex worldview built for simulating a reality completely unrelated to that of the show, how can we shoehorn the complex worldview into the show?" is quite another.

[maximus25]

why would eternal night being disharmony amongst ponies?
There's no basis for it. It's night time so let's all change alignment? The sun isn't coming up so let's purge the earth of the pegasi menace? Now that wee got no light, blame and lynch the unicorns?

How does eternal night cause ponies to turn on each other enough to bring in Windigos?
It's not just eternal night. Ponies everywhere rely on Celestia for guidance, now she's gone, presumably banished to the sun. With eternal night also comes NMM. She'd probably cause some disharmony, and if not her, Discord would break free pretty easily, he was coming out anyway.

Everything would just cascade into each other, a domino effect.

[Kd7sov]

I think that's codswallop. I've always hated all the suggestions and implications that pegasus flight runs on magic, and especially the idea that whenever they do a trick they're casting spells. Where's the slightest suggestion that pegasus flight runs on magic rather than muscles and wingpower?

First suggestion: unaided earth ponies and unicorns have displayed no ability to fly or glide, even when falling with all limbs outstretched (see: Applebuck Season). Therefore, the surface area of pegasus wings is insufficient, in itself, to produce observed flight effects.

Second suggestion: a spell for magical flight specifically and additionally grants Rarity the ability to cloudwalk (and yes, she does walk occasionally rather than fly). Not compelling on its own, I admit, but the correlation is worth noticing.

Third suggestion: clouds. We have observed multiple pegasi, on multiple occasions, interact with clouds as though they were a malleable solid such as wet clay. We have never seen a non-enchanted unicorn or earth pony do so. We have, indeed, encountered the implication that they cannot. But, you may say, what if pegasi are just that low-density? I will point you to Dragonshy, in which Rainbow Dash kicked a dragon - who had previously exhaled with enough force to push Twilight Sparkle backward some distance, and appeared to have absolutely no trouble manipulating what appears to be golden treasure - hard enough to visibly vibrate its head. Additionally, I point you to Hurricane Fluttershy, in which Fluttershy is at one point blown backward into Twilight's anemometer, with Spike in between. She is not visibly deformed, but Spike appears to feel quite a bit of force from the impact.

[INoKnowNames]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/369/216/12f.gif

[Kd7sov]

You both underestimate the sheer impossibility of ponies raising the sun and moon. This simple stated truth with visible evidence of destroys the entire stucture of the universe. This isn't "its magic so ignore physics" its magic making physics a scientific impossibility.

The Heliocentric solar system is the inevitable and only concievable result of a universe ruled by gravity. When the heliocentric model is verifiably untrue (unless you submit the Princess's and shows lie to our faces) it can only mean gravity does not function as it does. And yet gravity is the only thing that allows a star to exist in the first place, even keeping the other fundamental forces unchanged one must, MUST, have gravity for the mass of the star to hold in equilibrium and be stable. Never mind that gravity is the only force with the range sufficient to actually gather mass in any amounts.

It is effectively the sole architect of the entire universe. Change it and you must, MUST, change the entire universe.

Ponies walking on the soil of Equestria alone is completely incompatible with their own stated practice. I cannot accept such a massive change and rule that ANYTHING even remotely like physics rules the Equestrian universe. If it can be observed to still be so in a coincidental or concurrent manner that is one thing, but it should not be assumed without a solid base of observations.

(Or of course you can say the Unicorns, Princesses, and show are lying to our face)

Or I can open myself to the idea that the object to which ponies refer as "the sun" is not a 1.4-million-kilometer, 2x10^30-kg object, but perhaps some smaller, nearer, cooler thing. Yes, such an interpretation does not immediately and obviously correlate to anything in our current understanding of real-world physics, but it allows for the possibility that gravity is not necessarily as relevant as you insist.

[SiuiS]

Magic is a quantifiable thing that Unicorns do. Twilight Sparkle soapboxes about this. Non unicorn magic is dismissed as a myth and a hoax.

Magic is an energy used by unicorns to perform magic in their magical universe, here stage magicians perform magic tricks and famous wizards cast magic spells while philosophers and scientists study the magic of emotional and sociological aspects.

Twilight got on a soapbox and said [science] is a thing [scientists] do and [nonscientists] can never do [science] no matter how [scientific] their actions may seem. There is an alternate [magical] explanation for it.

Twilight is not as definitive on te subject of we own creation as her creator is, your Jayden/Charger/Mask triangle aside.


R.E. Pinkie Pie Exceptionalism: It's not clear what this is, but it's not magic.

I agree.




Would I be correct in stating your point as:

"The laws of physics as we humans understand them all completely and fully apply to Equestria, except for the fact that they are overridden with magic in every second of every day"?

No, that's taking it to the furthest possible logical conclusion in order to invalidate it by comparing it to a similar, silly caricature of itself. my arguments (small a) against your Argument do not constitute an Argument in themselves. I haven't and probably cannot state my view coherently, but suffice te possibilities are not binary enough for you to say "your idea is dumber so we are going with mine".



Again, magic is a quantifiable thing done by unicorns.


Magic is also much more than that. A bullet is a point on paper. Doesn't mean they aren't also fired out of guns or a shape. Temperature is how hot or cold something is. It is also a scale of energy input compared to entropy in an open or close system; the two don't intersect as you would expect, wherein a system having a negative temperature is actually hot as ****.



You're going about it ass backwards.

You are insisting I am doing it backwards. This does not mean I am.


"Here is the show, here are the things that happen in the show, how can we produce consistent laws from that?"

Is what I'm doing, and trying to make sure very one else does as well.


"Here is the show, here is a complex worldview built for simulating a reality completely unrelated to that of the show, how can we shoehorn the complex worldview into the show?"

is a pastiche of disparate arguments for different things, and is not representative of any of the arguments I have made. It may look that way on a small scale, but I am acting holistically and including ALL OF THE INFORMATION we have, and not just the little bits that have been presented. If we ignore the entire body of data and focus on small points, then we will of course come to different conclusions due to that artificial vacuum. the first step, which we are currently in, is clearing out that vacuum and seeing what survives the process. Ignoring that will of course lead you to derive false conclusions.

[Dexam]

Third suggestion: clouds. We have observed multiple pegasi, on multiple occasions, interact with clouds as though they were a malleable solid such as wet clay. We have never seen a non-enchanted unicorn or earth pony do so. We have, indeed, encountered the implication that they cannot.

OBJECTION!

- In Return of Harmony Part 1 (S02E01), Applejack lassos a cotton-candy chocolate milk raincloud.
- In Baby Cakes (S02E13), Pinkie Pie nurses a small cloud in a diaper when the Cakes are trying to convince Rainbow Dash to babysit.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled pony.

[One Tin Soldier]

I don't get how you ponies can play through so quickly.


Because this is how I've been spending all my spare time. Seriously, I need to stop or else I'll start getting behind on my schoolwork.


Well, this physics/magic/whatever debate is getting rather... heated. As far as my headcanon goes, I subscribe to the idea of each race having its own innate magic, though the ponies themselves might not refer to it as such. (Which is why they might say only unicorns have "magic." By "magic" they mean spellcasting.)

The thing is, the easiest explanation is that its a cartoon, and it is the type of cartoon that exaggerates things for the sake of visual gags and drama. In the real world, eternal night (or eternal day, for that matter) would be completely unlivable. See: Mercury. But I am 90% sure that the writers/animators/creators didn't have a complex cosmology in mind while doing these gags, they just make it up as they go.

That's not to say that you shouldn't make headcanons about this stuff. I know I enjoy it. But there's always going to be inconsistencies which support one idea or the other, so maybe everypony should take a teensy step back.

[Kd7sov]

OBJECTION!

- In Return of Harmony Part 1 (S02E01), Applejack lassos a cotton-candy chocolate milk raincloud.
- In Baby Cakes (S02E13), Pinkie Pie nurses a small cloud in a diaper when the Cakes are trying to convince Rainbow Dash to babysit.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled pony.

OBJECTION! (And where's a Miles Edgeworth ponymote when you need one...?)

Your point 1 is explicitly relevant to Discord. Discord is rather famous for disrupting the standard workings of Equestria, and therefore this evidence is not relevant to the current considerations.

Your point 2 is explicitly relevant to Pinkie Pie, who excepts herself from several types of normality. Any expectations based on "Pinkie Pie did..." are suspect.

[SiuiS]

It's not just eternal night. Ponies everywhere rely on Celestia for guidance, now she's gone, presumably banished to the sun. With eternal night also comes NMM. She'd probably cause some disharmony, and if not her, Discord would break free pretty easily, he was coming out anyway.

Everything would just cascade into each other, a domino effect.

Some disharmony I can see, but everything I've seen about how ponies interact tells me, unless they are potted against each other by an outside force (assuming the racism of the past has entirely dissapeared), they will stabilize their society far before windigos levels. As for discord; who knows? He may not have been an inevitability. He may have been the one who orchestrated it all. Appropriately, the chaos spirit is too variable to really be able to take into account.


Or I can open myself to the idea that the object to which ponies refer as "the sun" is not a 1.4-million-kilometer, 2x10^30-kg object, but perhaps some smaller, nearer, cooler thing. Yes, such an interpretation does not immediately and obviously correlate to anything in our current understanding of real-world physics, but it allows for the possibility that gravity is not necessarily as relevant as you insist.

this... Doesn't work. In fact, it proves his point, as it still requires gravity not to work, which causes a chain reaction of logical understanding. You hve to agree with him - that physics doesn't matter a lick at that point - in order to argue the sun is something else but the universe is still open space and heliocentric.

I may be wrong though. It sits odd in my head.

And, is this getting heated? Intense, but heated always implied emotional upset to me. Ah well. I vote to belay further arguments until tomorrow (my time; so about fifteen hours, or so) in order to give anything else breathing room.

All in favor?

[otakuryoga]

OBJECTION!
OBJECTION! Overruled

- In Return of Harmony Part 1 (S02E01), Applejack lassos a cotton-candy chocolate milk raincloud.
Chocolate Filled Cotton Candy clouds are NOT normal clouds.

- In Baby Cakes (S02E13), Pinkie Pie nurses a small cloud in a diaper when the Cakes are trying to convince Rainbow Dash to babysit.
Pinkie Pie is outside the laws of physics..real, cartoon,imaginary, and any other type

bah...Pinkie'd by a post made as i was catching up and didn't see when i started this one 8(

[Kd7sov]

this... Doesn't work. In fact, it proves his point, as it still requires gravity not to work, which causes a chain reaction of logical understanding. You hve to agree with him - that physics doesn't matter a lick at that point - in order to argue the sun is something else but the universe is still open space and heliocentric.

Wait, what? I thought I was arguing against a heliocentric ponyverse. I don't see a way you can fit "[pony or set of ponies] raises the sun" into the same worldview as "planet orbits the sun".

Possibly I'm also too tired.


And, is this getting heated? Intense, but heated always implied emotional upset to me. Ah well. I vote to belay further arguments until tomorrow (my time; so about fifteen hours, or so) in order to give anything else breathing room.

All in favor?

Aye!

[Soras Teva Gee]

Or I can open myself to the idea that the object to which ponies refer as "the sun" is not a 1.4-million-kilometer, 2x10^30-kg object, but perhaps some smaller, nearer, cooler thing. Yes, such an interpretation does not immediately and obviously correlate to anything in our current understanding of real-world physics, but it allows for the possibility that gravity is not necessarily as relevant as you insist.

Still largely doesn't work.

Even taking Equestria's mass as sufficient to create a geocentric system there still is no raising and lowering going on. Earth has such a miniature system with the Moon already. This helps somewhat with scale of forces needed but every but the problem is still there conceptually.

Quite aside from whatever that makes the sun it is not a miasma of incandescent plasma. I suspect if I was an astronomer I could probably also say that the moon should not work with such an object. I seem to remember the distances and sizes involved being directly demanded by geometry. Though we don't know certain measures for sure so this is perhaps escapable.

Of course this still requires an object of sufficient magical existence to make me challenge physic's existence on it alone. Since the sun you suppose certainly is no star. Perhaps two magical objects if I'm right about the moon.

The sheer amount of forces needed to stop/start such celestial masses...

[Thanqol]

All right, let's settle this. Applebucking style.

OBSERVATION: Applebucking causes apples to fall from trees while the leaves stay fixed where they are.

OBSERVATION: In Fall Weather Friends, a herd of galloping ponies can cause a forest's worth of leaves to fall.

HYPOTHESIS 1: When Applejack kicks a tree, she channels some of her inherent magical energy ("AppleQuarks") into the tree, magically fixing the leaves in place while severing the stems holding apples in place. When she participates in the Running of the Leaves she can channel her AppleQuarks in a different manner to shake loose the leaves instead.

Other types of ponies also have access to AppleQuarks and can use them to achieve similar effects (Flim Flam Brothers). When a pony or dragon randomly strikes a tree, causing leaves and twigs to shake loose (Dragon Quest) they are not channelling AppleQuarks in the same way. When the CMC fail to pick Zap Apples, this is because their AppleQuark Energy is insufficient to deal with the magically resistant energy of the Zap Apples. This excess of magical energy also allows the Zap Apple Trees to defy the laws of composition and structure, allowing it to bend like a rubber band.

When Applejack used a tree branch to catapult herself forwards in Fall Weather Friends she was using her AppleQuark energy to enhance the tree branch with magical elasticity, allowing her to propel herself dramatically through the air fast enough to not immediately crash into the ground despite her non-aerodynamic, wingless form. Applejack suffers no ill effects from this sudden acceleration, perhaps due to some other type of magic.

If a human being visitor from another reality tried any of these tricks they would fail due to his lack of AppleQuarks.

OR

HYPOTHESIS 2: The laws of physics as we understand them do not apply.

[Dexam]

OBJECTION! (And where's a Miles Edgeworth ponymote when you need one...?)

Your point 1 is explicitly relevant to Discord. Discord is rather famous for disrupting the standard workings of Equestria, and therefore this evidence is not relevant to the current considerations.

OBJECTION! Overruled

Chocolate Filled Cotton Candy clouds are NOT normal clouds.

COUNTER: Twilight Sparkle specifically states: "Applejack, I need you to bring those high-strung storm clouds down to Earth." At this point in time she has no idea of Discord or how he works. If there's no expectation that non-pegasi can interact with clouds, why would she even suggest it?


Your point 2 is explicitly relevant to Pinkie Pie, who excepts herself from several types of normality. Any expectations based on "Pinkie Pie did..." are suspect.

Pinkie Pie is outside the laws of physics..real, cartoon,imaginary, and any other type


COUNTER: Kd7sov specifically stated "...a non-enchanted unicorn or earth pony". Are we to infer then that Pinkie Pie is enchanted or magical?

[Tvtyrant]

These are functionally identical concepts.



We know crops don't grow in winter. Winter is the one of no crops. It's thematic, not necessarily causative. And using real world examples, we get plenty of crops in winter. So either this is wrong because it doesn't have a logical basis or it's wrong based on the knowledge of the real world we have.



Clearing the skies, to let the sun shine in; removing clouds; melt the white snow; all Things the ponies themselves do. The sun doesn't necessarily have anything to do with that at such a huge level. We see the ponies plowing snow, which means they participate in the snow clearing. And Pinkie's breaking up the ice? Ice melts in the sun, duh. But while sun melts ice, we have no reason to think no sun causes ice. Because of one important thing that is so fundamental, no pony Tess to remember it even when it's pointed out.

night time is not a lack of daytime, it is emanated by the moon just like daytime is emanate by the sun. If neither sun not noon rose, it wouldn't be night, it would be some terrible void.

The sky works on a wheel. The night time comes out on the moon, like an aura. So why again is eternal night freezing? Daytime is warm and bright, night is cool as dark. Cool, not cold. The moon could easily emanate its own ambient temperature; and why not? It's as much a sky construct as the sun, and not merely a rock which reflects from the the other side of some horizon.



Considerable heat? No. Sufficient to survive; San Francisco is 'temperate' enough that people are okay with sleeping outdoors, but I still find it butt-ass cold. There's a difference between paradisical and sufficient to allow life to go on. After about a week of fretting, I fully expect hydroponics to become a thing, and everyone to grow their own crops for trading. because hydroponics are within the realm of their technology (complex astronomical telescopes, calculus, film cameras), within the realm of their scientific understanding (Supernaturals, advanced medicinal techniques such as gel capsules), and within realm of reason (eternal night ain't gonna stop no apple from apple-in' I tell you what).

[auote]2. Disharmony is inherently dangerous for Ponykind. It is mentioned in the first episode that keeping the moon in the sky was disharmonious, and disharmony draws Windigos and could have freed Discord. It would be tragic to be NMM and watch Discord snatch your victory from you.

You're mincing terms. Disharmony on a natural level throws nature out of whack; disharmony on a social level is what is what caused Windigos. And windigos coming from a global civil strife is different than windigos coming because it's dark and ponies are scared. As long as there are Pinkie Pies to cheer people, groups would shrink, but there would be more of them. Life would go on. This follows from the social interactions we have seen in the show, where disharmony of nature resulting in deep freeze does not.



I didn't say nightmare moon wasn't evil. I said eternal night would not caus the earth's hear to seep into space, killing all crops, causing ice to form and beginning the thermodynamic steps of the planet's destruction.
[/QUOTE]

Your arguing with the actual show here. Applejack says "we can't grow in this cold," not "we can't grow in winter." And we know from Heart Warming's Eve that they couldn't grow in the snows from the Windigos as well, so it is more than just winter. I'm using the show here, you using RL examples does nothing to support your argument that Equestria isn't like Earth.

Now whether the sun is what is heating the planet or not is up to you, but we have an order of operations for melting snow.
1. They move the snow to where it can safely melt, and cut the ice so it melts into small pieces.
2. They clear the sky and let the sun out.
3. A brilliant show of sunlight blazing down is shown, and the ice melted.

Moreover, we see the overcast sky in both episodes. And the clouds break and let sunshine through to melt the snow (once magically, once by the Pegasi moving the clouds).

To your "mincing words" about disharmony, I find it a little disingenuous that rather than addressing my point that disharmony has been shown to lead to terrible consequences, you instead attacked one of my examples of this happening on the grounds that it was the wrong "type" of disharmony.

[Merellis]

And, is this getting heated? Intense, but heated always implied emotional upset to me. Ah well. I vote to belay further arguments until tomorrow (my time; so about fifteen hours, or so) in order to give anything else breathing room.

All in favor?

The Eyes Have It
http://cdn.derpiboo.ru/media/BAhbBlsHOgZmSSJWMjAxMi8wNy8wNC8yMF8yNF8wMl8xMTdfMz E1OTdfX3NhZmVfZmx1dHRlcnNoeV9hbmltYXRlZF9odXJyaWNh bmVfZmx1dHRlcnNoeV9leWVzBjoGRVQ/31597__safe_fluttershy_animated_nightmare-fuel_hurricane-fluttershy_eyes.gif

[Thanqol]

Your arguing with the actual show here. Applejack says "we can't grow in this cold," not "we can't grow in winter." And we know from Heart Warming's Eve that they couldn't grow in the snows from the Windigos as well, so it is more than just winter. I'm using the show here, you using RL examples does nothing to support your argument that Equestria isn't like Earth.

Now whether the sun is what is heating the planet or not is up to you, but we have an order of operations for melting snow.
1. They move the snow to where it can safely melt, and cut the ice so it melts into small pieces.
2. They clear the sky and let the sun out.
3. A brilliant show of sunlight blazing down is shown, and the ice melted.

Moreover, we see the overcast sky in both episodes. And the clouds break and let sunshine through to melt the snow (once magically, once by the Pegasi moving the clouds).

Following from this, the Weather Factory in Cloudsdale manufactures snowflakes by hoof. They could just cut production, and if no Windigoes showed up with 'natural' snow then Equestria might well do just fine.

[Silverraptor]

OBJECTION!


Objection! (http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=6113612)


OBJECTION! (And where's a Miles Edgeworth ponymote when you need one...?)


Objection! (http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=6113590)


OBJECTION! Overruled


Objection! (http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=6113606)

[Tvtyrant]

Following from this, the Weather Factory in Cloudsdale manufactures snowflakes by hoof. They could just cut production, and if no Windigoes showed up with 'natural' snow then Equestria might well do just fine.

Fair enough. But this borders asking questions like why they actually institute a none-growing season in the first place :smallwink:

[Thanqol]

Fair enough. But this borders asking questions like why they actually institute a none-growing season in the first place :smallwink:

That's a really interesting question! And the type of question we should be asking!

[SiuiS]

Quotes saved for later quibbling.

[One Tin Soldier]

Fair enough. But this borders asking questions like why they actually institute a none-growing season in the first place :smallwink:

Well, the song mentions holidays and relaxation, though that is a rather weak explanation. Maybe the plants need that "down time" in order to grow properly? It seems rather contrived no matter how you look at it.

[Thanqol]

Well, the song mentions holidays and relaxation, though that is a rather weak explanation. Maybe the plants need that "down time" in order to grow properly? It seems rather contrived no matter how you look at it.

Iron Hoof Celestia needs to place artificial limits on the food supply and the expansion of the earth pony underclass, lest they grow sufficiently in numbers to threaten her eternal reign.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Fair enough. But this borders asking questions like why they actually institute a none-growing season in the first place :smallwink:

Concerns over soil depletion, applications in long term stabilization of climate, allowances for (pre-pony) natural cycles in the animals and plants... and of course because winter is fun.

[maximus25]

Maybe it's in memorial of the tough times they went through during the windigo blizzard thing.

'Never forget past mistakes lest ye repeat them' and all that.


Could be that pegasi just really like singing and WWU is the day when it's socially acceptable to sing to your hearts content.

[Callos_DeTerran]

That's a really interesting question! And the type of question we should be asking!

There's already an answer. By having a season where you can't grow, you give the soil time to build up nutrients once more from various sources, or you rotate out the crops that can't grow in the cold for the ones that can that have the side-effect of the above.

...Or something like that, the specifics elude me, I'm not a farmer. :smalltongue: But I've heard a reason before.

Also, winter could actually be a season long memorial to the time of the Windigos.

[Merellis]

Fair enough. But this borders asking questions like why they actually institute a none-growing season in the first place :smallwink:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1u8gcfHDS1qmu108o1_500.gif

Chancellor Puddinghead, in a rare flash of brilliance, suggested to Princess Platinum and Commander Hurricane that there should be a yearly reminder of what had nearly been caused a second time with the Windigo's.

So they set their three best ponies, Smart Cookie, Private Pansy, and Clover the Clever to the job. While the obvious suggestion of making the day they defeated the Windigo's and discovered the Fire of Friendship into a holiday was a good one, they felt it wasn't enough.

So they planned, researched, and put together a proposal.

Create the circumstances of the harsh winter every year, have the Pegasi churn up the snow and winds, have the Unicorns organize and prepare buildings for all the ponies to hide from the cold grip, and have the Earth Ponies farm and save food to feed Equestria for the time needed.

The idea turned out to be a popular one for Hurricane and Platinum, but Puddinghead had one suggestion to make.

"Make it the best time ever! Have the snow and wind, have the shortage of food, but make sure everyone can enjoy the winter for as long as it lasts!"

Stunned into silence, the other five could only nod as ideas built in their heads, scribbling and drawing out the plans as fast as they could, glad to have managed to create a time for all ponies to remember why they need to work together.

This was never mentioned in the play, nor was it ever spread amongst the ponies as to why this had to happen. All the Equestrians knew, was that for a few short months there was snow, cold air, and a lot of hot meals.

Though the reasoning was lost in time, the tradition continues today.

[Thanqol]

There's already an answer. By having a season where you can't grow, you give the soil time to build up nutrients once more from various sources, or you rotate out the crops that can't grow in the cold for the ones that can.

Why do you need to cover the land with snow and ice, at massive cost of time and infrastructure, to enforce this non-growing season? Plenty of countries don't have annual snowfalls and have perfectly fine growing seasons.


Create the circumstances of the harsh winter every year, have the Pegasi churn up the snow and winds, have the Unicorns organize and prepare buildings for all the ponies to hide from the cold grip, and have the Earth Ponies farm and save food to feed Equestria for the time needed.

why did anypony think this was a good idea.

[Merellis]

why did anypony think this was a good idea.

SImply put, to avoid getting more Windigo's again, and to remind all of Equestria that they need each other prosper. The disharmony and hatred between the three races caused them to move to a new country and they brought their own destruction with them. A subtle reminder in the shape of a season where they needed to stock food, live in warm houses, and depend more on the weather team seemed easier to push then a "Don't screw it up, or ya'll will freeze to death again."

Edit: Heading to bed anyway. Night all.

[Thanqol]

Sadly, Mr. Andrews has made it so:
Talk Like Zecora Day is a go. (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=416472598414893)


SImply put, to avoid getting more Windigo's again, and to remind all of Equestria that they need each other prosper. The disharmony and hatred between the three races caused them to move to a new country and they brought their own destruction with them. A subtle reminder in the shape of a season where they needed to stock food, live in warm houses, and depend more on the weather team seemed easier to push then a "Don't screw it up, or ya'll will freeze to death again."

A quarter of the year under the ice
Seems to be a touch too heavy a price.

[Merellis]

Sadly, Mr. Andrews has made it so:
Talk Like Zecora Day is a go. (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=416472598414893)



A quarter of the year under the ice
Seems to be a touch too heavy a price.

A price too heavy you may say
But Windigo's can take it all away.
A quarter, a token, a fourth
Better then forever as the north.

History repeats, this much should be true
Ponies rebel against things told to you
The price to be paid is a reminder alone
Rather than to freeze and be skin and bone.

Listen well and heed this warning
So that you may avoid a life of mourning
Give your friends and enemies love
So that you may forestall the monsters above.

[Thanqol]

A price too heavy you may say
But Windigo's can take it all away.
A quarter, a token, a fourth
Better then forever as the north.

History repeats, this much should be true
Ponies rebel against things told to you
The price to be paid is a reminder alone
Rather than to freeze and be skin and bone.

Listen well and heed this warning
So that you may avoid a life of mourning
Give your friends and enemies love
So that you may forestall the monsters above.

Fshaw! It was the pride of those long past
That forces us against this wintery blast!
They suffered greatly, yes it is true,
But they chose to inflict their pain on me and on you!

Their names were not so great to chain all of time
Nor their warning so dire as to block the sunshine
After all this time we can see the irony has come
The monsters they feared are the monsters they have become!

[SiuiS]

You guys fail at democracy. To the surprise of no pony whatsoever.

The gist is, if there is a system which works to explain everything with minimal effort/change, it is a more elegant/superior solution to one which requires more change or effort.

'the seasons and the time of day are separate states, not merely lackings of each other" covers these issues without abandoning understanding wholesale. It's covered every question presented, so far, without effort or bending. It also hasn't really been challenged itself so much. Which is odd, but I assume no one really cares enough about it to argue ;)


All right, let's settle this. Applebucking style.

Can do.


OBSERVATION: Applebucking causes apples to fall from trees while the leaves stay fixed where they are.

Ripe apples are designed by nature to fall. Well, nature and tree breeding. And you're not going to tell me an apple half as big as a pony's head is a natural thing and not the result of apple breeding.

The shockwave force necessary to shake loose an apple at picking time is much less than that required to break loose healthy leaves.


OBSERVATION: In Fall Weather Friends, a herd of galloping ponies can cause a forest's worth of leaves to fall.

Being an event utilizing dozens of ponies, just like winter wrap up, the running go the leaves could be a massive friendship ritual, channeling the sportsmaneship of all ponies participating into the same sort of effect which defeated the windigos. It is required to shift the genius loci into Fall Mode from Summer Mode, just like winter wrap up shifts the spirit from Winter to Spring. We have every reason to believe the march of the seasons is entirely manual.


HYPOTHESIS 1: When Applejack kicks a tree, she channels some of her inherent magical energy ("AppleQuarks") into the tree, magically fixing the leaves in place while severing the stems holding apples in place. When she participates in the Running of the Leaves she can channel her AppleQuarks in a different manner to shake loose the leaves instead.

Other types of ponies also have access to AppleQuarks and can use them to achieve similar effects (Flim Flam Brothers). When a pony or dragon randomly strikes a tree, causing leaves and twigs to shake loose (Dragon Quest) they are not channelling AppleQuarks in the same way. When the CMC fail to pick Zap Apples, this is because their AppleQuark Energy is insufficient to deal with the magically resistant energy of the Zap Apples. This excess of magical energy also allows the Zap Apple Trees to defy the laws of composition and structure, allowing it to bend like a rubber band.

When Applejack used a tree branch to catapult herself forwards in Fall Weather Friends she was using her AppleQuark energy to enhance the tree branch with magical elasticity, allowing her to propel herself dramatically through the air fast enough to not immediately crash into the ground despite her non-aerodynamic, wingless form. Applejack suffers no ill effects from this sudden acceleration, perhaps due to some other type of magic.

If a human being visitor from another reality tried any of these tricks they would fail due to his lack of AppleQuarks.

An interesting hypothesis. It's base premises don't necessarily follow the evidence, but it's interesting.



HYPOTHESIS 2: The laws of physics as we understand them do not apply.

Hypothesis 1 is "here is an idea". Hypothesis 2 is "your ideas are stupid, stop having them". I'll go with #2 if you supply something better, but concretely you haven't.



Your arguing with the actual show here. Applejack says "we can't grow in this cold," not "we can't grow in winter."

Not at all. I am arguing that the sun being gone does not cause severe enough cold to case snow and winter to prevent all food from being grown. Which the show itself tends to support.


And we know from Heart Warming's Eve that they couldn't grow in the snows from the Windigos as well, so it is more than just winter.

Weren't these winter snows that they couldn't grow in? The windigos increased the severity of the winter, an with enough traction could have prolonged it, but I thought the entire point was that long term strife betwee ponies over a course of years led to increasingly severe winters culminating in one so bad they weren't going to survive until the thaw.


I'm using the show here, you using RL examples does nothing to support your argument that Equestria isn't like Earth.

You're using the show incorrectly. "can't grow in cold" does not equal "no sun causes global freezing". I accounted for this, and used the show to support my examples as well. Your examples from the show are accurate, but do not counter the points I made. So however accurate your points are does not affect my own points. They are entirely separate.


Now whether the sun is what is heating the planet or not is up to you, but we have an order of operations for melting snow.
1. They move the snow to where it can safely melt, and cut the ice so it melts into small pieces.
2. They clear the sky and let the sun out.
3. A brilliant show of sunlight blazing down is shown, and the ice melted.

Yes, but the sunlight blaze is listed as a symptom of the season change, just like the ice Melting. It is not a cause. The ice not melting when the sun shown is aberrant, but no less aberrant than the ice melting and the sun not shining.


Moreover, we see the overcast sky in both episodes. And the clouds break and let sunshine through to melt the snow (once magically, once by the Pegasi moving the clouds)./quote]

We do see the overcast sky. But we have an understandable macro system which explains why the micro system you are explaining is correlated but not causative.

[quote]To your "mincing words" about disharmony, I find it a little disingenuous that rather than addressing my point that disharmony has been shown to lead to terrible consequences, you instead attacked one of my examples of this happening on the grounds that it was the wrong "type" of disharmony.

I agreed that disharmony has consequences. I disagree that you provided evidence that the sun not rising is disharmonious, and that it would cause enough disharmony to trigger those consequences. That's not disengenuous at all, and I'm sorry it came across that way. But just like magic, harmony has many uses in language that don't necessarily equate to each other. Does that make more sense?


The Eyes Have It
http://cdn.derpiboo.ru/media/BAhbBlsHOgZmSSJWMjAxMi8wNy8wNC8yMF8yNF8wMl8xMTdfMz E1OTdfX3NhZmVfZmx1dHRlcnNoeV9hbmltYXRlZF9odXJyaWNh bmVfZmx1dHRlcnNoeV9leWVzBjoGRVQ/31597__safe_fluttershy_animated_nightmare-fuel_hurricane-fluttershy_eyes.gif

Geeze that's creepy.


That's a really interesting question! And the type of question we should be asking!

Indeed! And now to developing answers.


Fair enough. But this borders asking questions like why they actually institute a none-growing season in the first place :smallwink:

Because that is a defining trait of winter. It's a time of pulling in, taking in, incubating. The seed waits, hibernates and prepares. Everything has its time, and everything dies. Not fighting this is a point of harmony. There is a cycle, and you are in tune with it. The sun sleeps. The moon sleeps. The earth, too, sleeps. But she sleeps only for three months a year, for she knows her burden and loves too much to relax.

It's like why leaves fall in the autumn. That's a defining trait thereof, an part of the earth pony contract with the seasons. Not leaving the earth fallow would mean winter never achieved its end, and who knows? Maybe winter can't be wrapped up until its had it's run.

[Thanqol]

You guys fail at democracy. To the surprise of no pony whatsoever.

Your palsy arrogance fails to see
Ponythread is Better than Democracy


The gist is, if there is a system which works to explain everything with minimal effort/change, it is a more elegant/superior solution to one which requires more change or effort.

'the seasons and the time of day are separate states, not merely lackings of each other" covers these issues without abandoning understanding wholesale. It's covered every question presented, so far, without effort or bending. It also hasn't really been challenged itself so much. Which is odd, but I assume no one really cares enough about it to argue ;)

I understand none of what you have said here;
To understand SiuiS perhaps I need more beer.

[Eakin]

Hey guys it's been a while since I popped my head in here so... uh...

*reads last two pages*

So 17 weeks of no ponies is how long it took to drive y'all round the bend for good, huh? Good to know.

And Nightmare Moon totally would have killed everypony if she'd won. Otherwise I don't see how Celestia justifies banishing her for so long.

[Thanqol]

Being an event utilizing dozens of ponies, just like winter wrap up, the running go the leaves could be a massive friendship ritual, channeling the sportsmaneship of all ponies participating into the same sort of effect which defeated the windigos. It is required to shift the genius loci into Fall Mode from Summer Mode, just like winter wrap up shifts the spirit from Winter to Spring. We have every reason to believe the march of the seasons is entirely manual.

This sounds plausible, far more than the idea
That the law of physics somehow applies here


Hypothesis 1 is "here is an idea". Hypothesis 2 is "your ideas are stupid, stop having them". I'll go with #2 if you supply something better, but concretely you haven't.

Occam's razor, you must see
Is the best philosophy.

[Colonel Fedora]

RHYMES BE HAPPENIN DOG


I had hoped to share this news.
Your faster pace gives me the blues.

Regardless, I have to say.
I'm boggled by the words this day.

Discussion of Luna, and Nightmare Moon.
Switches to Pegasi, carrying harsher tunes.

I am unsure what to think.
Your clever words make my mind sink.

When Thanqol and Siuis have a bout.
My brain feels a little left out.

Despite all this, I find it fun.
To discuss these things by the ton.

So to all of you speaking this day.
Enjoy yourselves, or you will pay.

[SiuiS]

Your palsy arrogance fails to see
Ponythread is Better than Democracy


Oh, no. I'm perfectly accepting of that. I'm jut pouting out that people agreed to a thing and then did not follow through themselves. :smallwink:



I understand none of what you have said here;
To understand SiuiS perhaps I need more beer.

Okay, all your smarmy rhyming aside, was it really that opaque?


Hey guys it's been a while since I popped my head in here so... uh...

*reads last two pages*

So 17 weeks of no ponies is how long it took to drive y'all round the bend for good, huh? Good to know.

I wouldn't say for good but time will tell.


And Nightmare Moon totally would have killed everypony if she'd won. Otherwise I don't see how Celestia justifies banishing her for so long.

It's like buying in bulk. Best idea... If you can afford the bulk. If you're a dollar short your best bet is to get the lowest amount possible to last until you get more income.

If her choices were "kill NMM" or "knock her out for a millennia and did a way to fix her" it's not the best idea ever, but it may have been the best idea available in Celestia's timeframe.

Also, reign of unparalleled evil, that's pretty big. I mean, think about it;
NMM triumphs
The dark rises
Evil runs rampant
Colorful equine happiness at all time low
No reason for Bleakbane not to conquer the planet

Suddenly, Nightmare Moon ushers in an era of magi tech space liches unparalleled! Although then Hopereaver gets the coolest Moon Princess as a mount ever.


I had hoped to share this news.
Your faster pace gives me the blues.

Regardless, I have to say.
I'm boggled by the words this day.

Discussion of Luna, and Nightmare Moon.
Switches to Pegasi, carrying harsher tunes.

I am unsure what to think.
Your clever words make my mind sink.

When Thanqol and Siuis have a bout.
My brain feels a little left out.

Despite all this, I find it fun.
To discuss these things by the ton.

So to all of you speaking this day.
Enjoy yourselves, or you will pay.

It is, ironically, the most pony we have discussed in a long time XD

[RdMarquis]

Sadly, Mr. Andrews has made it so:
Talk Like Zecora Day is a go. (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=416472598414893)

Ooh, boy. Assuming I even have time tomorrow, I'm limiting this to the thread and IRC. GMing in rhyme is going to be very awkward.

Er, that is...

Assuming tomorrow sees me with free time,
I will come visit to speak in words rhymed.

But narrating games would be too great a feat.
My players would knock me right out of my seat.

In closing, below's an appropriate pic.
Well, sort of. You know what, just give it a click.

http://www.derpibooru.org/89710?scope=scpeee0a796118592e3fde477e7c5cc8df5834 9c48a4

[Balmas]

:smallsigh:....Just noticed

Heh, expected more chaos over saying that I was a brony given how it was before.



Mostly seemed like I'm a hate magnet when being myself though :smallbiggrin:



...what? I already mentioned I disliked a lot of things! how am I going to be a full brony with that?



Of course, you got to know what, where and how to throw it!
if you want to blow up some tanks in a street you don't randomly launch orbital bombardment, you just send an A-10 (or similar) and AGM them! that way you can be sure you're hitting him! and it's still cool!
It's all about using brute force at the best spots, doesn't work? use more! they're just like dots and art: use them right and you make a masterpiece! :smalltongue:

You misunderstand, Luka my dear:
Your bronydom was abundantly clear.


yes yes yes yes yes yes

went by ToysRUs before going into work

walked back to the pony are(which they had moved again)

saw one Favorites set

YOINK!

(or MINE! in the tone of voice of a seagull from Nemo if you prefer)

and now Nightmare Moon, Trixie Lulamoon, and DJ-Pon3 are mine!!!!

Congratulations, my pony friend.
Truly, your swag shall know no end.


I think that's codswallop. I've always hated all the suggestions and implications that pegasus flight runs on magic, and especially the idea that whenever they do a trick they're casting spells. Where's the slightest suggestion that pegasus flight runs on magic rather than muscles and wingpower?

I'm afraid that nature disproves you here:
No natural critter shoots rainbows from their rear
when flying Mach 10. Although, perhaps, what we need
is to find a sparrow capable of such speed.



http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1u8gcfHDS1qmu108o1_500.gif

Chancellor Puddinghead, in a rare flash of brilliance, suggested to Princess Platinum and Commander Hurricane that there should be a yearly reminder of what had nearly been caused a second time with the Windigo's.

So they set their three best ponies, Smart Cookie, Private Pansy, and Clover the Clever to the job. While the obvious suggestion of making the day they defeated the Windigo's and discovered the Fire of Friendship into a holiday was a good one, they felt it wasn't enough.

So they planned, researched, and put together a proposal.

Create the circumstances of the harsh winter every year, have the Pegasi churn up the snow and winds, have the Unicorns organize and prepare buildings for all the ponies to hide from the cold grip, and have the Earth Ponies farm and save food to feed Equestria for the time needed.

The idea turned out to be a popular one for Hurricane and Platinum, but Puddinghead had one suggestion to make.

"Make it the best time ever! Have the snow and wind, have the shortage of food, but make sure everyone can enjoy the winter for as long as it lasts!"

Stunned into silence, the other five could only nod as ideas built in their heads, scribbling and drawing out the plans as fast as they could, glad to have managed to create a time for all ponies to remember why they need to work together.

This was never mentioned in the play, nor was it ever spread amongst the ponies as to why this had to happen. All the Equestrians knew, was that for a few short months there was snow, cold air, and a lot of hot meals.

Though the reasoning was lost in time, the tradition continues today.

A plausible explanation indeed.
It has been headcanon'd by me.

[TheAmishPirate]

Fair enough. But this borders asking questions like why they actually institute a none-growing season in the first place :smallwink:


Well, the song mentions holidays and relaxation, though that is a rather weak explanation. Maybe the plants need that "down time" in order to grow properly? It seems rather contrived no matter how you look at it.

Well, you can clearly see...


Sadly, Mr. Andrews has made it so:
Talk Like Zecora Day is a go. (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=416472598414893)

...my timing's so-so.
A chance to bust rhymes? Let's give it a go:

A season for fallow, much sense it makes
Perhaps not as a reminder of past mistakes.

But instead, a simpler reason suggests
They have enough food, why not take a rest?

Ponies say they enjoy their wintertime sport
When the snow falls heavy and days grow short

Grow food all year round? Most chuckle and say
A dull pony is born by all work and no play.

If nine months are needed to produce for a year
Why not have three more to spread joy and good cheer?

So winter exists for the farmer's respite
His stores are full, let him laugh for a night
Let all be merry, as the snow grows higher
Come, take a seat, here's your place by the fire.

(From Zecora to Seuss, I fear I have strayed
It is how I rhyme, do not feel betrayed)

[Thanqol]

I'm afraid that nature disproves you here:
No natural critter shoots rainbows from their rear
when flying Mach 10. Although, perhaps, what we need
is to find a sparrow capable of such speed.

What manner of butterflies, my friend,
Can catch a pony on the descend?

[Anarion]

It's still September 3rd where I am, Zecora speech shall have to wait.

Edit: Well, it was when I started to type
Now, I must join with the hype.

First, the final X-pony report from Commander Vinyl Scratch.
Dear Princess Celestia,

We did it. I still can't believe they put me in charge of this rag-tag band of heroes, but we did it. And y'know, commander Scratch has a nice ring to it. I think I might stay with the force after this. Maybe assign Sergeant Octy to be my personal secretary. Her expression every time I give her a direct order is just so rich.

I guess, let me back up. In preparation for the trip to Cydnonia, I decided to be extra careful. First off, we consolidated bases and split the troops up into the psionically gifted and the, we'll call them psionically challenged. Given our experience with those blasted Etherials, taking a pony withb weak psionic skill to Cydonia was a risk I wasn't willing to take. We didn't have time for as much training as I would ahve liked, but everypony that went on the final mission had more than 70 psionic strength based on the psionics lab rating, and between 30 and 50 psionic skill.

Let me take this moment to call out thanks to my sweet fillies, Lyra and Bon-Bon. At 100 and 97 psionic strength, respectively, the two of them went hog wild when we got into the alien base. They never pulled off a mind control on an Etherial, but the two of them bested 2 Sectoid leaders and a Sectoid commander in a single round of psionic power, and mind-controlled the commander into unloading a blaster bomb into his own control room. Then, when we got into the bowels of the base, they mind-controlled several Chryssalids. Those things are so fast, and when they're on our side, they wreck house.

So yeah, psionics were a big part of our victory. Production was another big one. Before take-off the boys back home finished up all the kit I asked for them, and they did it in record time. We went in with everypony armed with heavy plasma, you and I carrying blaster launchers and extra ammo, psi amps for everypony, and not 1, not 2, but 3 plasma hover tanks. I uh, might have sort of blown up one of the hovertanks with my blaster launcher, but these things happen and we finished with the other two intact. On top of that, we had flight armor for everypony, and that made moving around the Cydonian landscape really easy, not to mention taking shortcuts in the underground section of their base. And while we were gone, our triple Avengers with plasma held down the fort back on earth.

We ended up taking out a little over 60 UFOs total. near the end, I stopped even sending ground teams. We just had the Avengers blow the UFOs out of the sky as fast as they could enter the atmosphere, and I tried to take some of them over water so that there would be no survivors in any of the wreckage. Our hyperwave decoders said that the aliens were doing some kind of "retaliation" mission, but it's hard to figure out how they would retaliate against us when any ship that got within 1500 miles of one of my bases got shot down with half an hour.

I did find that last alien base before I left, too. Would you believe it was in Brazil as well? Like, less than 500 miles from base #4. I can't figure out why our planes didn't find it earlier, but now I know why Brazil pulled out of the X-pony project. Their loss, considering all the sweet, sweet Cydonian tech we brought back.

Princess, I also want to give you a special shout-out. All that firing range training you did really paid off, and it was a satisfying moment when you were cross-map sniping with your heavy plasma and a 105% hit rate.

A shout-out to my senior officer corps. Princess, you made a great colonel, and Colgate, I'm sorry I snatched your command, it wasn't my idea, and you my a great field colonel as well.

I think back to that first terror mission, when we had no idea what we were doing, and a single reaper seemed like the most scary thing in the world. And I look at how far you have all come.

Fillies and gentlecolts, I see great things in the future for X-pony. It's going to be awesome and I hope you all receive this message and stay on with me, if you wish. I'd welcome you all, you have served with dignity, honor, and butt-kicking radicalness.

Let November 4th go down as the day all of you saved the world.

Your faithful DJ,
Commander Vinyl Scratch



And Nightmare Moon totally would have killed everypony if she'd won. Otherwise I don't see how Celestia justifies banishing her for so long.

I'm going to use this as a convenient entry point to the discussion.

Nightmare Moon was a queen. She heralded her return by appearing before the gathered townsfolk in place of Celestia and announcing her victory along with an evil laugh. If she just wanted everypony dead, I don't think she would act the way that she did. She wanted them to know she was back and know who she was.

This is linked to the original reason for her becoming Nightmare Moon: loneliness and sadness that everypony ignored her beautiful night and jealousy towards her sister.

Now, I think it's heavily implied, both by Nightmare's Moon's magic, and the fact that everypony panics when they here that Celestia is gone, that eternal night would be pretty terrible. It probably has monsters, and it might involve things like extreme cold, great danger for anypony going outside, and even a relative scarcity of food.

However, I suspect that there exist plants that can grow without light and provide alternatives, as well as enough heating sources, magical or otherwise, to keep the population alive. And if there weren't, Nightmare Moon probably would have assisted once she had established her new castle and gotten her kingdom properly set up. Because Nightmare Moon, twisted as she is, wants a kingdom of fearful and adoring subjects, not a kingdom of corpses.
---------------
Regarding Pegasi and Earth pony abilities and magic, you're basically just arguing semantics, as far as I can tell. Magic, if you take Twilight's soap box, means something like a studied technique, used intentionally, in order to create a specific and repeatable effect.

If you follow my interpretation of Twilight's definition, that discounts most things that are not unicorn magic. A sonic rainboom wouldn't count because it happens to any pegasus that hits a certain speed, whether they will it or not, and whether they even know about it or not. Similarly, bucking apples or falling leaves seem to be natural phenomena that are not always consistent, but that happen at certain times or in response to certain actions whether the pony wills it to happen or not.

I'd also point out that anything being done during Winter-Wrap up is specifically called out as NOT being magic because Ponyville follows earth pony tradition and uses no magic for their Winter Wrap-up. That means all the cloud and bird gathering, animal communication, planting and snow clearing are not, at least according to the inhabitants of Ponyville, classified as magic.

[Balmas]

What manner of butterflies, my friend,
Can catch a pony on the descend?

Perhaps my point was not well said.
This is what I meant instead:
These pegasi are more than muscle,
Despite how eager they are to tussle.

If, in nature, no rainbooms appear,
Then that there must be more is clear.
Of magic, I don't claim to know.
Pegasi do have something, though.

[Anarion]

Perhaps my point was not well said.
This is what I meant instead:
These pegasi are more than muscle,
Despite how eager they are to tussle.

If, in nature, no rainbooms appear,
Then that there must be more is clear.
Of magic, I don't claim to know.
Pegasi do have something, though.

But, can you say it's more than speed?
What else can race when there's a need?

A pegasus may be nature's swiftest creature.
And thus the rainboom, a unique feature.

But speed alone, does not prove magic.
If rainbooms are so rare, it merely proves tragic.

[Aotrs Commander]

Eh, I've been through so many French and Italian classes, the way short I and short E are pronounced in American English are identical.:smalltongue:

But, uh, to answer the question, I was never able to sit down to watch Quantum Leap, so my only real exposure to Daleks were in an unlicensed video game that used pictures of them, so I only ever saw it written down rather than pronounced.



http://i.imgur.com/lJFOJ.png

*skullpalm*

Doctor Who. Not Quantum Leap. Aside from nominally involving time travel, the two are about as far apart as it's possible to be.


EDIT: Put it this way: I don't enter your physics conferences and tell you that black holes are ascended Forces Mages who have accumulated sufficient gnosis to achieve infinite potential locked within their physical forms, you don't tell me that the characters in my stories are going to inadvertently inflict a genocide on all living things, that they would know this if they had any sense, and are therefore horrible monsters.

Okay, I was going to just completely ignore this discussion, because it is no longer even passable entertaining or distantly fun, and because I am well past tired of being prempatorily told that "narrative overwrites everything in everything, yes, even then", especially when, aside from the occasional slip, I try go out of my way to add qualifers when I say something and avoid sweeping statements; because I am tired of spending not a few hours crunching numbers for order-of-magnitude calculations only to be told that "no, it never matters" or "it's still wrong"; because I am tired of having to justify myself everytime I turn around or say something, being told "too much physics" and "not enough physics" by turns; and because, most of all, I am sooo tired of spending all my interactions with everyone, be it here or with the one or two friends at roleplaying that actually ever see regularly anymore, bickering over something or other, but I have to say this, before I give up on...

...

Before I give up.

They are not YOUR characters. Not even when you write fanfiction; they are your interpretations of said characters. So, outside of said fanfictions, you don't get to tell me that they aren't.

[Thanqol]

...

Before I give up.

They are not YOUR characters. Not even when you write fanfiction; they are your interpretations of said characters. So, outside of said fanfictions, you don't get to tell me that they aren't.

If I gave offence, apologies,
The implications frustrated me.

[SiuiS]

Okay, I was going to just completely ignore this discussion, because it is no longer even passable entertaining or distantly fun, and because I am well past tired of being prempatorily told that "narrative overwrites everything in everything, yes, even then", especially when, aside from the occasional slip, I try go out of my way to add qualifers when I say something and avoid sweeping statements; because I am tired of spending not a few hours crunching numbers for order-of-magnitude calculations only to be told that "no, it never matters" or "it's still wrong"; because I am tired of having to justify myself everytime I turn around or say something, being told "too much physics" and "not enough physics" by turns; and because, most of all, I am sooo tired of spending all my interactions with everyone, be it here or with the one or two friends at roleplaying that actually ever see regularly anymore, bickering over something or other, but I have to say this, before I give up on...

...

Before I give up.

They are not YOUR characters. Not even when you write fanfiction; they are your interpretations of said characters. So, outside of said fanfictions, you don't get to tell me that they aren't.

Yeah, what?
This Thanqol thing you quoted makes no sense and doesn't even make sense in context.

Overly antagonistic, And a symptom of patterns I'm trying to change.

Commodore. Sorry this is so wearying. I remember you laughin at me the last time I apologized, so I figure you would prefer the full brunt of rhetoric.

Thanqol. I have no idea how saying "somethin has been established as a founding principle of a thing by its creator" is telling you anything about your work. I honestly don't see where that assumption came from.

Pity, I was quite proud of myself. I figured I conveyed my argument in a consistent, coherent and rather polite fashion (with exceptions for Bleakbane being exceptions).

-

A sigh I heave here on the bow
I want that captain out here now!

And still the silence strains and breaks
Seems I must go as far as it takes!

"This creaky metal with to which I've come
- I believe he said adamanetium?
To crack its case I must devise
A plan more wily it seems, than wise."

"Let us see what he sees in you!
...
... ...
Can it be? Do my eyes deceive me too?
Whatever can I do
To an alloy that heals fast and true?"

"Stop now, self, we watch, and wait.
Upon this now, deliberate.
It's composition, as strong as steel
Bears still this rigid, crystal feel
And though parallel'd as adamant
I will crack this case, see if I can't!"

A fist rises like the sun, but falls like rock
And rocks the whole dang ship - Hydrosatic shock!
Or it would be in flesh and bone
What is it called in steel, or stone?
Destructive resonance, it has the ring
But the name matters not! It is the thing.

The ship she dips and falls and sinks
And in their minds eye the wizard winks
And while she gloats, "this will do the trick!"
The captain calls, and says... He's sick?

"All this time an all this way
An still I've stood here all the day
An only now when I attack
Do you say he can't play, leave, go back?
Well a curse on you, and on this ship!
May she not survive her maiden trip!"

The wizard turns as steps an then reclines
And finds Charger hooves are bad for spines
And knees and thighs and ribs and lips
And skulls too, but then Charger slips
She is too, ill with this malaise
Of all the days, of all the days!
The wizard points and sounds the call
"Charger, I give thee feather fall"

Without interruption or delay
The wizard turns and limps away.


***


Behind the clouds amid the tubes
A slant rhyme wizard in green robes
Puts hair of cellist, spit of blue
Tail of whimsy and and coil true
And strength of hero, when valor shines
And hero punches punish spines

buttons pressed And GUIs twisted
Fluids boiled and chambers misted
And ponies now grow where none were listed.

***

At the end, I've this to say
Role play is hard, on Zecora day @_@

[Deadly]

Geez, as if I didn't have enough rhyming to do ...
And then I see you all bicker and argue
About seasons and trying to make sense
Of all the canon and physics and other nonsense

Oh to haydes with this ...

You all do realize that canon is utterly inconsistent and unreliable and can not really be trusted because it might be saying two mutually exclusive things about X if you dig around a bit?

Which is why it's silly and futile to discuss these things. But ...

... who am I kidding, that never stopped anyone, did it?

The only True Canon is this: Canon is whatever each episode needs canon to be, by the power of Magic!

[SiuiS]

Geez, as if I didn't have enough rhyming to do ...
And then I see you all bicker and argue
About seasons and trying to make sense
Of all the canon and physics and other nonsense

Oh to haydes with this ...

You all do realize that canon is utterly inconsistent and unreliable and can not really be trusted because it might be saying two mutually exclusive things about X if you dig around a bit?

Which is why it's silly and futile to discuss these things. But ...

... who am I kidding, that never stopped anyone, did it?

The only True Canon is this: Canon is whatever each episode needs canon to be, by the power of Magic!

I have to wonder. Is there a difference between setting and canon? Canon is based mostly on events, yes? Whereas the setting is the place those events occur and are affected by canon proceedings.
Can one have a setting and toss the canon?
Can one have the canon but toss the setting?

Anyway. Yes, we know that's the answer. The discussion... Or, well, I thought it was a discussion, but I suppose it became an argument if Thanqol is throwing up his hands. Anyway, it was academic, from a what if angle.
What if everything we've seen so far is consistent fact?

And then we were off!

[Deadly]

I have to wonder. Is there a difference between setting and canon? Canon is based mostly on events, yes? Whereas the setting is the place those events occur and are affected by canon proceedings.
Can one have a setting and toss the canon?
Can one have the canon but toss the setting?

Well, I'd say there's canon about the setting and canon about events, and it's all one big canon but you can probably look at them individually if you like.


Anyway. Yes, we know that's the answer. The discussion... Or, well, I thought it was a discussion, but I suppose it became an argument if Thanqol is throwing up his hands. Anyway, it was academic, from a what if angle.
What if everything we've seen so far is consistent fact?

And then we were off!

If everything is consistent fact, you're going to have a really hard time making sense of it :smalltongue:

I know we all like to discuss these sorts of things, although personally I'm staying out of this one, because I know I could get swept up in a futile discussion and not get anything else done all day :smallsmile:

[DigoDragon]

If you do it, make less effort to blend in than usual. Trixie it up to 11 and break the dial off. To balance it out, you see.

Oh yes, it will still be quite some time until my Trixie learns what subtlety is. Even if she decides to practice "Being Human", it would be in look only.
Heck, she doesn't see clothing as a social necessity the same way we do so the first time she turns human there will be a Hilarity Ensues moment when the team needs to get her dressed.



I have resigned myself to the fact that it's going to be nightmarish (ahaha) getting ahold of any ponies over here

My issue is easy-- My wife would kill me if I spent money on ponies. >_>
All the eldritch abominations on this board are nothing compared to the anger of one 'Mrs. Dragon' :smalleek:



Best pony couple?

Outside the already established couples on the show? Yes.
I accept no other shippments.



So why the hell is darkness that really just turns everything purply goin to end in the heat death of Equestria?!

Unless the show decides to change how plantlife works, without the sun most plants and trees would die off and thereby dissrupt the ecosystem on massive extinction level event. Now, things not dependant on the sun might survive so it wouldn't be a 'heat death'.

[SiuiS]

Unless the show decides to change how plantlife works, without the sun most plants and trees would die off and thereby dissrupt the ecosystem on massive extinction level event. Now, things not dependant on the sun might survive so it wouldn't be a 'heat death'.

24 hours of 40% sunlight should be as healthy for the plants as it is for the ponies. They won't thrive, certainly, but they are getting light. It depends on how much of cellular metabolism you feel we should keep true to form before we say "close enough". I don't get extinction level event though. One moon, an all those leaves, it just doesn't add up.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

My 0.02€ regarding physics and magic in Equestria:

Physics is the natural science that studies matter, energy, and their movements in space and time. In the pony universe, magic is explicitly part of the natural laws of that universe (...in the magical land of Equestria...), and as such, physics in the pony universe must, if it is to be a complete model of the motions of matter and energy in that universe, include magic when it describes the natural laws that govern said motions. So are physics irrelevant? Yes, if by physics we understand "the collection of models that describe the motion of matter and energy in our own universe". That particular collection of laws and theories is invalid since it does not account for magic.

So while the physics of Equestria may, superficially (very superficially, I want to stress), resemble those of our own universe, the actual laws that govern are exceedingly unlikely to resemble those of our own. The differences between our physics and their physics are too large to say "well, we can use our own laws of physics to model this universe, and when we run into weird stuff we'll just shrug and say 'magic', and not think about it too hard". That's terrible science! Imagine if at the turn of the last century scientists had gone "welp, we've got it figured out. We understand everything about how the world works. There's this thing with the black body radiation, but.... eh. Magic. We're not going to see how that fits into our thorough and complete model of how the universe works." No, any complete understanding of the physics of Equestria must include magic from the very base, since magic is a fundamental aspect of how the Equestrian universe works. And given that magic infuses the basic laws of the universe, that influence will necessarily extend to every law derived from those fundamental laws.

Any similarities between natural law in our universe and natural law in Equestria is largely coincidental, and it most certainly cannot be assumed a priori. One cannot say "Equestria works like our universe except when magic" because in Equestria magic is part and parcel of the physics. We shouldn't assume "normal" physics in Equestria any more than we should assume normal physics in the Looney Toons universe*, where the fundamental modifier that changes everything is the Rule of Funny.


*OK, that's actually hyperbolic. Equestria's physics are certainly closer to our own 'verse's than the Toons' are, but there's considerable evidence that they are still distant enough that we shouldn't assume stuff works the same.


http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/369/216/12f.gif

I lol'd :smallbiggrin:

[DigoDragon]

Uggghhhh... Being sick sucks. @_____@

My condolences friend. I've been nursing a sick child and wife from the cold all weekend, so I know how terrible it is. Yeah, aboslutely no fun. At least I learned how to make chicken soup.

**Hands you a thermos of homemade chicken soup**



http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Group-Shot-325193295 They be all together!

Sweeeet (/Snails Voice)



24 hours of 40% sunlight should be as healthy for the plants as it is for the ponies. They won't thrive, certainly, but they are getting light. It depends on how much of cellular metabolism you feel we should keep true to form before we say "close enough". I don't get extinction level event though. One moon, an all those leaves, it just doesn't add up.

I've done sunlight experiments for highschool science fairs. Going off the info I got from them, low levels of light will yield short plants with small fruit. Also, some plants are more intollerant to losing out on sunlight than others.

Assuming Equestria works this way, eternal night forever gives us 40% of the usual light for our plants and trees. Over the next few months we'd see large drops in available food for ponies and animals, thereby there will be a large rise in starvation leading to a lot of death (This is my mentioned M.E.E.)

The percentage that survives will likely then adapt and move on in their now sustainable smaller numbers.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Outside the already established couples on the show? Yes.
I accept no other shippments.


Ehh like 'em better then the Cakes or the Cadence and Shiny myself.

[SiuiS]

I've done sunlight experiments for highschool science fairs. Going off the info I got from them, low levels of light will yield short plants with small fruit. Also, some plants are more intollerant to losing out on sunlight than others.

Assuming Equestria works this way, eternal night forever gives us 40% of the usual light for our plants and trees. Over the next few months we'd see large drops in available food for ponies and animals, thereby there will be a large rise in starvation leading to a lot of death (This is my mentioned M.E.E.)

The percentage that survives will likely then adapt and move on in their now sustainable smaller numbers.

we're these light levels constant?

I see our difference. By extinction I figured you meant in the sense f a species going extinct. I don't think that would happen en masse. 60% of everything dying? Maybe. 100% of anything? No.

[Sean Mirrsen]

((Warning: this post "grew in the telling", and may have lost its original direction at some point. Wall of text and possible rambliness/incoherence warning.))

I would've liked to quote all the points I'd have liked to address in the discussion on the nature and physics of Equestria-verse, but I think it'd take up way too much time and space.

So instead, I'll just throw some balls out into the field, to see if anyone trips on anything.

The Sun, whatever it is physically, does seem to be a major benefit to everyone involved in the whole "staying alive" thing. Whether or not unicorns were actually moving it by themselves in pre-Celestia times, it still seems that having the little fireball present in the sky is deemed to be of enough importance that the one pony capable of doing it by herself is appointed as the ruler of the country.

Physically moving a star doesn't necessarily require humongous quantities of energy. If one were to create a space-time curvature difference on either side of it, the star would practically move by itself. Curiously, teleportation and other forms of magical transposition are already a thing in Equestra-verse.

Also, the Sun and the Moon seem to be locked to diametrically opposite points on the sky sphere. There are, likewise, no phases of the moon and no eclipses.

Weather-wise, winter is a period of shorter days and longer nights, resulting in lower average temperature. Solstice is, likewise curiously, also a thing in Equestria-verse.

It's just a few more things to consider when trying to figure out how this world works.

Lots of different theories and "headcanons" can be drawn out from various assessments made from the events shown in the show. Ultimately, the only "true" one is Thanqol's assessment that the reality of the show is run by narrative law. But, as a being of the meta-multiverse, I shall oppose that premise with every fiber of my.. well, being, such as it is. A universe existing on the whims of a narrative ceases to be appealing. Picture yourself in a world where everything happens exactly how you envision it, with no deviation whatsoever. If you come there from our real world, you will likely have fun for some time. But what then? Will you be happy to know that nothing can ever surprise you? That anything new that happens would be a construct of your own devising? Sooner or later you will get tired of telling things to fall down, and you'll start building a system of rules. Which things fall, which things fly, how they do the things they do.. and this is what the debate is about right now. The system so far.

Magic really throws wrenches into the gears of whoever tries to create a coherent system by which the Equestria-verse should be working, because so many things can be substituted or altered with "magic". But in essence, a lot of things we have in our real world qualify for "magic", gravity not least of them. Whether or not the actual laws of Equestrian physics are identical to ours is irrelevant because they function in an identical, or significantly similar manner. It is, in fact, easiest to say that the world would function identically to the real world - well, our real world - except when overridden by magic, precisely because magic is taken into account in Equestrian physical laws from the outset. By using an existing system of physical laws as a base, you don't just get the prejudiced views and tendencies of it, but you get a set of rules that you know can work, and that you can then compare the world against, making exceptions for, and later finding explanations for things that do not conform, taking the factor of magic into account.

For instance, the same concept of moving the Sun. It's pretty obvious that whatever happens is overriding what we would consider real physical conditions. There is no way a massive star can be moved by a (comparatively) tiny little pony. But the answer you should seek in this case is not "it's magic, it doesn't need to make sense". It's "what does this magic change to do what it does". Your perception could be wrong on any step of the way, perhaps there is no massive globe of fusion fire several light-minutes away. Or perhaps there is but it's not the thing being moved? Maybe it's a ball of magic fire instead? Or maybe the universe really is that crazy and just allows anyone with enough magic power to reach out and drag the whole thing around. Unless you can tell what the reality of the environment is, the rules you devise may well be wrong, and every viewpoint conforming to the available data is equally valid.

The point of this whole thing is, all you people arguing about the real nature of Equestria-verse are essentially wrong. And right at the same time. The truth of the matter is, the real universe of My Little Pony will function exactly in the way the writers tell it to function, hate as I may that fact. Every person describing his opinion on the workings of Equestria is simply taking his turn in the writer's seat, but the only opinions that matter are the ones that make it to the show itself.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Whether or not the actual laws of Equestrian physics are identical to ours is irrelevant because they function in an identical, or significantly similar manner. It is, in fact, easiest to say that the world would function identically to the real world - well, our real world - except when overridden by magic, precisely because magic is taken into account in Equestrian physical laws from the outset.

I believe my point at least is that this is in fact not the case.

Celestial motions and ponies walking are on Earth governed by the exact same principle. In Equestria there is a minimum of two things going on.

[fizmat]

That's terrible science! Imagine if at the turn of the last century scientists had gone "welp, we've got it figured out. We understand everything about how the world works. There's this thing with the black body radiation, but.... eh. Magic.
Terrible science is pretty much inevitable in our case. The only way to unravel the mystery of the black body was to do more experiments. Any good science requires experiments (chemistry, physics, biology), or at least a firm understanding of underlying "smaller" laws (astrophysics). We have to work only with the canon we get. Which means we have to either make some rather broad assumptions, or stop (over)analyzing altogether.
http://i.imgur.com/PDKIo.png To the categorizo-mobile!
Ways to discuss the laws of ponyverse:

Everything we see in the show is explainable by a set of laws. There are possibly some exceptions (Pinkie, Discord).
It's magic/narrativism, there are no laws.


(1)Whether the exceptions have their own rules is a separate discussion, with even less evidence ether way. We just don't get hung up on difficulties with them when discussing "physics". They are the "black body radiation" right now: not enough evidence, too strange to make meaningful assumptions.

The full set of laws can be described several ways. Keep in mind, it's the same physics, just decomposed differently:

"Mundane" + "Magical"
Earth physics laws + EarthToEquestria modification
Earth common sense "laws" + CommonToEquestria modification
No separation is possible


(1) is not really useful, plus mundane by which standards? By pony standards earth ponies are probably mundane, by ours - they're magical talking equines.
(2) is possibly more complex than just brand new laws. Especially if we take Earth laws to mean "everything from the Standard Model and up". Plus the modification is probably rather large (Terran laws are too interconnected to be simply modifyable). It's probably not a fruitful way to decompose the laws.
(3) is very wibbly-wobbly, but more compatible in general as a result. I'm not sure if it's possible or useful.
(4) is totally true and the least useful

And the assumptions most readily applicable in each case:

?
All physical laws are assumed the same as ours, unless a contradicting evidence is shown.
All the results from the application of laws are assumed to be the same, unless contradicted. They might not have electrons, cells or chlorophyll, but plants need sun to grow. Terran common sense works, not physics to the letter.
We know nothing and assume nothing.


(2)has a problem because everything we're shown contradicts some part of physics
(3)Is my preferred approach, but is not a rigid guide. Is "everything falls down" part of the assumption? Is "the Earth is round"? Is "the air exists"?
(4)We're back to square one: with no assumptions and no way to experiment, we take in what we see as "laws" and just move along. Pegasi can fly. Law, no explanation. Apples fall when tree is kicked. The property of apples, trees, ponies, or magic? We don't care, it's the law: they fall down.


Ways to handle magic:

It has separate rules. Nice and tidy.
It has no rules, but is separable. Easy and simple.
It's rules are so intertwined with "mundane" physics, there's no separate physics. We need a holistic approach, but assumption (3) is still possible.
It's lack of rules is so intertwined with "mundane" physics we can't figure out physics and give up. Assumption (4)


If (1) or (2), in assumption (2) or (3) we get ToEquestria = ToEquestriaMundane + Magic. There is an interesting possibility where ToEquestriMundane = 0, so everything that separates our world from Equestria gets labeled magic. Not sure if it's productive or just world-mangling.

[Sean Mirrsen]

I believe my point at least is that this is in fact not the case.

Celestial motions and ponies walking are on Earth governed by the exact same principle. In Equestria there is a minimum of two things going on.It doesn't need to be. A properly enough, and creatively enough written world can have the two premises be completely different.

For instance, there is a fictional world called Tryslmaistan, in which there is no gravity as is usually thought of. Instead, there is a set of laws governing the principles by which everything in the universe attempts to fall linearly "down", except objects above a certain size, which float. (it's called "linovection", iirc) It also explains why particles form triangular crystals instead of spheres when they cluster together, as well as why each immense triangular world plate has a day orb and a night orb that spin around it, creating "day" and "night".

Like I said, you shouldn't completely reject the old system just because one thing you see doesn't comply to what you expect. Find ways of how it doesn't fit, what is being changed to allow what you see to happen. If you want an explanation that involves magic, how about a theory that Equestria is a rogue planet, circled by a "sun" of magical fire and a similarly not-what-it-seems "moon"? Or that Celestia and Luna's powers are actually the same in principle, using the real Sun and Moon as "anchors" and rotating the planet under them, preventing colossal global damage using the same inertia-defying magic the pegasi use to fly on a global scale? There are lots of things we can't know about. Even the fact that the world where Equestria resides is a planet at all is indicated just by the presence of a globe as a background prop in one of the scenes. There is a whole lot of empty space in existing data for a theory to fill in, and a whole lot of perfectly workable theories can be built around the concept of "Like Reality Unless Noted". There is no need to dismiss it outright.

[Alabenson]

All right, let's settle this. Applebucking style.

OBSERVATION: Applebucking causes apples to fall from trees while the leaves stay fixed where they are.

OBSERVATION: In Fall Weather Friends, a herd of galloping ponies can cause a forest's worth of leaves to fall.

HYPOTHESIS 1: When Applejack kicks a tree, she channels some of her inherent magical energy ("AppleQuarks") into the tree, magically fixing the leaves in place while severing the stems holding apples in place. When she participates in the Running of the Leaves she can channel her AppleQuarks in a different manner to shake loose the leaves instead.

Other types of ponies also have access to AppleQuarks and can use them to achieve similar effects (Flim Flam Brothers). When a pony or dragon randomly strikes a tree, causing leaves and twigs to shake loose (Dragon Quest) they are not channelling AppleQuarks in the same way. When the CMC fail to pick Zap Apples, this is because their AppleQuark Energy is insufficient to deal with the magically resistant energy of the Zap Apples. This excess of magical energy also allows the Zap Apple Trees to defy the laws of composition and structure, allowing it to bend like a rubber band.

When Applejack used a tree branch to catapult herself forwards in Fall Weather Friends she was using her AppleQuark energy to enhance the tree branch with magical elasticity, allowing her to propel herself dramatically through the air fast enough to not immediately crash into the ground despite her non-aerodynamic, wingless form. Applejack suffers no ill effects from this sudden acceleration, perhaps due to some other type of magic.

If a human being visitor from another reality tried any of these tricks they would fail due to his lack of AppleQuarks.

OR

HYPOTHESIS 2: The laws of physics as we understand them do not apply.

I prefer my hypothesis: The laws of physics apply unless we have evidence otherwise. Evidence of some differences between Equestrian physics and our physics is not evidence of differences that we have not yet observed.


COUNTER: Twilight Sparkle specifically states: "Applejack, I need you to bring those high-strung storm clouds down to Earth." At this point in time she has no idea of Discord or how he works. If there's no expectation that non-pegasi can interact with clouds, why would she even suggest it?

Even in absence of knowledge of Discord himself, Twilight was already aware of the structural differences between the cotton-candy clouds and normal clouds, i.e. the fact that they were composed of cotton-candy as opposed to water vapour. Her suggestion that Applejack bring them down was likely based on such knowledge.



COUNTER: Kd7sov specifically stated "...a non-enchanted unicorn or earth pony". Are we to infer then that Pinkie Pie is enchanted or magical?

Essentially, yes. Pinkie Pie has repeatedly demonstrated abilities that, while not traditional unicorn magic, are generally accepted to be somewhat supernatural.

[Tiki Snakes]

I can't help but feel Sherlock Holmes old maxim is useful here.

How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?

At no point does anyone call out Pinkie Pie as being or doing magic. One whole episode is dedicated to the impossibility of this. The episode also establishes that despite Pinkie doing magic being impossible, the things that were happening were infact actually happening.

I would say that we have enough evidence to rule out Pinkie Pie being magic beyond other Earth Ponies, or so fundamentally weird that she simply doesn't count, but there is plenty of room to argue that by Holmes's Razor as it were, the truth remaining is that Pinkie Pie is not magic and those things really are happening because of non-magical causes, talents and skills.

Or to put it another way; Pinkie Pie is not a reality warping eldritch phenominon or a normal pony. Pinkie Pie is simply an Odd Pony.

Sean Mirrsen - I don't think that's how Narrative Law works. It's less about the universe conforming to you, and more about the kind of logic you get in the Fey realms or a Terry Pratchett novel. About how ideas have substance and events a shape or even a will of their own.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Like I said, you shouldn't completely reject the old system just because one thing you see doesn't comply to what you expect.

Actually largely speaking I should.

You see there is fundamentally no virtue to a physics based universe except that it is observable IRL. Science as science and not science as dogma (a phenomena that is much more common!) demands that it only be ported over if it can likewise be observed, not until. There is no old or new system because the "old" system is based on observations that do not apply.

Already universal gravitation are outright contradicted unless one demands the uni/alicorns are in fact lying. And that is one of the biggest principles on can mess with since changing it instantly requires new explanations for say stars and planets, which ONLY form through gravitation.

Trying to preserve the laws of physics after a variation like that is exactly like trying to preserve Aristotelian philosophical cosmology against Copernican simplicity.

Everything must be rebuilt from the bottom up. Nothing can be taken for granted. The "old" only has bearing because you are comfortable with it and have been indoctrinated that it is the way it "is therefore must be" which is very very very very VERY normal but not correct.

Now one could maybe eventually arrive at a reasonably simple derivation, but we lack the observation base to do so. Whatever we replace gravity with for example, we can probably say that other Newtonian motion holds true. Which gives us a few shared principles/concepts like inertia. However Newton does not cover say the structure of matter only its behavior.

That ponies evidently play with a similar property to mass does not demand that the Higgs Boson exists in Equestria.


There is a whole lot of empty space in existing data for a theory to fill in, and a whole lot of perfectly workable theories can be built around the concept of "Like Reality Unless Noted". There is no need to dismiss it outright.

Respectfully this:


For instance, there is a fictional world called Tryslmaistan, in which there is no gravity as is usually thought of. Instead, there is a set of laws governing the principles by which everything in the universe attempts to fall linearly "down", except objects above a certain size, which float. (it's called "linovection", iirc) It also explains why particles form triangular crystals instead of spheres when they cluster together, as well as why each immense triangular world plate has a day orb and a night orb that spin around it, creating "day" and "night".

Is NOT like reality except noted. Which is really my point in a nutshell.

Like reality is for movies where fictional events happen but ostensibly 'could' happen, a typical action flick or whatever.

Going further one can have things like alternate history where a certain even went another way (maybe even for fantastic reasons like time travel or aliens) but you know before that point everything was the same, and even after unless a difference is noted you can presume that say the contents of famous books are the same.

It should be pretty much impossible for any fantastic setting to invoke being like reality from the get go. Urban fantasy can be doable, but even removing the Masquerade starts to get to the edges of the concept. This is LONG before you start talking about say the underlying physics being different.Equestria is nowhere even close.

Now you could maybe sublet the concept where Equestria is like Equestria... except where Pinkie Pie is involved.

[Luka]

You misunderstand, Luka my dear:
Your bronydom was abundantly clear.

I said a bit, I don't really feel like one though, and don't ignore the tons of things I dislike about it too.... it unless one can be a fan and a hater at the same time :smallconfused:
Pfff, now I'm back to doubting

[INoKnowNames]

I said a bit, I don't really feel like one though, and don't ignore the tons of things I dislike about it too.... it unless one can be a fan and a hater at the same time :smallconfused:
Pfff, now I'm back to doubting

I question how long you've been on the internet with a line like that. I don't even know how or where to begin to educate you. Yes, it's indeed possible to have things you like and things you hate at the same time. There's rarely an -anything- that is so perfect as to have nothing to hate about it. But if the parts that you like let you look past the hate.... well, there you go.

Also, if I may.


You misunderstand, Luka my dear:
Your bronydom was abundantly clear.

I'm afraid, whether or not you were one at the time, even -I-, what, a week within meeting you and the rest of these crazy people, having -never- been exposed to MLP beyond a few commercials, thought you were in the brony closet.

Nothing wrong with any of this, just making an observation. It's probably why you didn't get a massive welcoming when you decided to admit to being a brony.

.... are.... are you upset you didn't get such a welcome?


I lol'd :smallbiggrin:

Then I've done my job. I always find it -so- entertaining when people can get into a Collegic Debate over Physics and the Universe... in a cartoon.

Seriously, it's a good read, even if I don't understand it.

[Maxtronaut]

Well, I'm still sick, so I had to stay home from school today.

There is only one thing to do today.

Pony pony pony pony pony pony pony pony pony! :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

[Kd7sov]

...

The fifteen hours I tried to wait,
But something here I have to state.

(And what a challenge this will bring:
To make debate while I'm rhyming!)


I can't help but feel Sherlock Holmes old maxim is useful here.


At no point does anyone call out Pinkie Pie as being or doing magic. One whole episode is dedicated to the impossibility of this. The episode also establishes that despite Pinkie doing magic being impossible, the things that were happening were infact actually happening.

I would say that we have enough evidence to rule out Pinkie Pie being magic beyond other Earth Ponies, or so fundamentally weird that she simply doesn't count, but there is plenty of room to argue that by Holmes's Razor as it were, the truth remaining is that Pinkie Pie is not magic and those things really are happening because of non-magical causes, talents and skills.

Or to put it another way; Pinkie Pie is not a reality warping eldritch phenominon or a normal pony. Pinkie Pie is simply an Odd Pony.

"An odd pony" is what you say;
Some things that won't explain away.

Nopony else that we have seen
Can sense things that have not yet been.

Her body massively contorts,
Far beyond those of her cohorts.

Pray tell, how can you explain this (http://youtu.be/eorBliNDRtc?t=4m8s):
Hanging out of nothingness?

A shocking hypothesis, I project:
That Twilight may not be always correct!

(Please note that her conclusion
Is what we have - only the one;

Not backed up by friends or patron.
It well may be she reasoned wrong.)

[Anarion]

being told "too much physics"

What manner of creature would say such a thing?
It seems clear to me they have minds that took wing.

(I kid though, but I love physics far too much for there to ever be too much of it).


List of possibilities

This is very thorough, thanks for posting it, helps a lot as a basis for the discussion.



You see there is fundamentally no virtue to a physics based universe except that it is observable IRL.

For a convenient launching point, my thanks go to you
Now from this line, I'll see what I can do

In my thoughts at least, science is what you can predict
If someone calls it science when it leads to nothing, I'd say you've been tricked

But in Equestria, being a magical land
Two forces make predictions, side by side they stand

One is assumptions, about physics and life
Newton's laws mostly hold, forces are rife

The second is narrative, about things that are cool
The world shapes itself as the author's tool

[Alright screw it, I've got a flight to catch and this is taking too long. Sorry Zecora.]

What I'm getting at is that both narrative and physics make successful predictions in Equestria. If a pony without wings slips off the edge of something high up, I guarantee you that pony will fall unless something else intervenes. I'd even bet you that the fall will be very close (within the capabilities of the animators) to how a fall would work under the laws of gravity in the real world.

However, we know from observations in the show that several things don't work like they do in the real world. This means that we can pick up on suggestions from the show and theorize about how they work instead, and opinions can vary about how much the system should be altered from what all of us already know. Here, my example is going back to Nightmare Moon. The way that Nightmare Moon acts is not consistent with an expectation that many ponies will just die during the eternal night in my opinion. Because she (presumably) knows how the eternal night works due to her creating it, I think that theorizing that it will not kill very many ponies because it seems like Nightmare Moon doesn't expect it to kill very many ponies is a pretty good inference. That's how I think it works. Why they won't die is then up to conjecture. Maybe there's some kind of nightgrowing mold that's actually pretty healthy. Maybe part of the eternal night alters the way that crops work even though it also unleashes demons and such. Who knows?


My point is, both physics and narrative lead to predictions in the world of Equestria, and therefore they are both relevant to a discussion about how stuff works in Equestria.

[Tiki Snakes]

What manner of creature would say such a thing?
It seems clear to me they have minds that took wing.

(I kid though, but I love physics far too much for there to ever be too much of it).



This is very thorough, thanks for posting it, helps a lot as a basis for the discussion.



For a convenient launching point, my thanks go to you
Now from this line, I'll see what I can do

In my thoughts at least, science is what you can predict
If someone calls it science when it leads to nothing, I'd say you've been tricked

But in Equestria, being a magical land
Two forces make predictions, side by side they stand

One is assumptions, about physics and life
Newton's laws mostly hold, forces are rife

The second is narrative, about things that are cool
The world shapes itself as the author's tool

[Alright screw it, I've got a flight to catch and this is taking too long. Sorry Zecora.]

What I'm getting at is that both narrative and physics make successful predictions in Equestria. If a pony without wings slips off the edge of something high up, I guarantee you that pony will fall unless something else intervenes. I'd even bet you that the fall will be very close (within the capabilities of the animators) to how a fall would work under the laws of gravity in the real world.

However, we know from observations in the show that several things don't work like they do in the real world. This means that we can pick up on suggestions from the show and theorize about how they work instead, and opinions can vary about how much the system should be altered from what all of us already know. Here, my example is going back to Nightmare Moon. The way that Nightmare Moon acts is not consistent with an expectation that many ponies will just die during the eternal night in my opinion. Because she (presumably) knows how the eternal night works due to her creating it, I think that theorizing that it will not kill very many ponies because it seems like Nightmare Moon doesn't expect it to kill very many ponies is a pretty good inference. That's how I think it works. Why they won't die is then up to conjecture. Maybe there's some kind of nightgrowing mold that's actually pretty healthy. Maybe part of the eternal night alters the way that crops work even though it also unleashes demons and such. Who knows?


My point is, both physics and narrative lead to predictions in the world of Equestria, and therefore they are both relevant to a discussion about how stuff works in Equestria.

It's worth mentioning that Narrative law is not incompatable with things that seem to observe physics, but Physics is often incompatable with things that follow Narrative Law. So ponies falling when they slip off a cliff works with either, whereas Pinkie being in Dash's hiding place before Dash works easier under Narrative Law than Physics.

[Soras Teva Gee]

[Alright screw it, I've got a flight to catch and this is taking too long. Sorry Zecora.]


Yeahhhhh I mean its neat and all but talk like Zecora day... I'm not generally a masochist.

[Luka]

Egh... Not much input for the "physics" discussion, sorry, been told more than once to not do stuff about it.
....Besides that it's just a cartoon and just forget about it anyways.


I question how long you've been on the internet with a line like that. I don't even know how or where to begin to educate you. Yes, it's indeed possible to have things you like and things you hate at the same time. There's rarely an -anything- that is so perfect as to have nothing to hate about it. But if the parts that you like let you look past the hate.... well, there you go.

I'm not talking about "being a fan that likes things and others not", I'm talking about looking "what I like vs what I dislike" to see if I'm one or not, the parts that I hate let me look past the ones I like, so there :smalltongue:


I'm afraid, whether or not you were one at the time, even -I-, what, a week within meeting you and the rest of these crazy people, having -never- been exposed to MLP beyond a few commercials, thought you were in the brony closet.

Nothing wrong with any of this, just making an observation. It's probably why you didn't get a massive welcoming when you decided to admit to being a brony.

.... are.... are you upset you didn't get such a welcome?

Mostly cuz everyone seems to ignore the things I didn't like as "just doesn't like the show" but actually includes most-several-things, they end up dismissing it (unless the few times where they ask "what are you even doing here?" and then go on).
And most things I dislike seem to be what most of them like most.

....

[Sean Mirrsen]

Actually largely speaking I should.

You see there is fundamentally no virtue to a physics based universe except that it is observable IRL. Science as science and not science as dogma (a phenomena that is much more common!) demands that it only be ported over if it can likewise be observed, not until. There is no old or new system because the "old" system is based on observations that do not apply.The situation in this case is rather unique in that we cannot actually test anything within the universe. There is far too little concrete information displayed in the show's episodes to even begin forming a coherent model from scratch with any degree of factual accuracy, nevermind the fact that "factual accuracy" is subject to the whim of whoever's writing the episode. Going by "science as science" is therefore an exercise in frustration, as we aren't even sure whether the events take place on an actual astronomical body or some sort of "world plane" with an infinite rotating sky-sphere above it, and turtlestortoises all the way down. Having absolutely no base to work from will not get you anywhere when you lack an actual universe that you can observe. By using As Reality Unless Noted, you are providing yourself with a base, something you can use to check the observable parts of the other universe against your own, finding contradictions and means to address them.


Already universal gravitation are outright contradicted unless one demands the uni/alicorns are in fact lying. And that is one of the biggest principles on can mess with since changing it instantly requires new explanations for say stars and planets, which ONLY form through gravitation. Gravitation can still work exactly the same. All it needs is an amendment to account for specific types of energy being applied, and it will still work flawlessly. This is one of those things that a little insignificant patch of overgrown land called the Everfree Forest really makes a good reference point for. There are areas in Equestria that ponies do not control. This shows that, in fact, there is a "natural" course of things, that not everything remains static when direct application of pony-controlled magic is not involved. What magic does is provide a means to control that "natural" course.

What if, quite like the weather, the movement of celestial bodies is also managed? Not held precariously on rails by invisible strands of magic, but simply nudged into a course that is beneficial? If Equestria-verse's only difference from our reality is the existence of these universal "magical handles" on everything, readily available for use by anyone of sufficient skill and power, would that not be a simpler explanation?


Trying to preserve the laws of physics after a variation like that is exactly like trying to preserve Aristotelian philosophical cosmology against Copernican simplicity.

Everything must be rebuilt from the bottom up. Nothing can be taken for granted. The "old" only has bearing because you are comfortable with it and have been indoctrinated that it is the way it "is therefore must be" which is very very very very VERY normal but not correct.

Now one could maybe eventually arrive at a reasonably simple derivation, but we lack the observation base to do so. Whatever we replace gravity with for example, we can probably say that other Newtonian motion holds true. Which gives us a few shared principles/concepts like inertia. However Newton does not cover say the structure of matter only its behavior.

That ponies evidently play with a similar property to mass does not demand that the Higgs Boson exists in Equestria.Again, same principle applies. We can't make observations in a universe we can see only through a storyteller's words. We can know only as much as he tells us. If you completely reject the "old" base, you have absolutely nothing to stand on, except the everpresent "magic".



Respectfully this:

Is NOT like reality except noted. Which is really my point in a nutshell. I used that to show that otherwise similar concepts need not be related in a different universe. However, the principle applies very heavily to the webcomic that takes place in it, in that the author gleefully smashes every consecutive attempt you could make at forming your own structure for the world she displays as the story goes on. Whereas at its beginning, you could see it as a typical "fantasy land with magic", but otherwise similar to a real world, you would quickly begin to see that it has concepts ranging from bizarre to incomprehensibly alien, while remaining internally consistent, and very fundamentally different from our world. This is possible because, and only because, the creator of the comic has a passion for worldcrafting, and is willing to showcase to you the intricacies of the underlying mechanics of the universe. This isn't so with Friendship Is Magic.


Like reality is for movies where fictional events happen but ostensibly 'could' happen, a typical action flick or whatever.

Going further one can have things like alternate history where a certain even went another way (maybe even for fantastic reasons like time travel or aliens) but you know before that point everything was the same, and even after unless a difference is noted you can presume that say the contents of famous books are the same. It should be pretty much impossible for any fantastic setting to invoke being like reality from the get go. Urban fantasy can be doable, but even removing the Masquerade starts to get to the edges of the concept. This is LONG before you start talking about say the underlying physics being different.Equestria is nowhere even close.

It is, on the contrary, applied to any semi-realistic 'verse. Things like thrown objects having inertia, polished surfaces reflecting light, a fire being hot, etc, are expected to hold true unless otherwise noted. Without using real physics as a base, one can only create a believable world with an amount of time and effort that most writers don't want to invest.


Now you could maybe sublet the concept where Equestria is like Equestria... except where Pinkie Pie is involved.This, however, I tend to agree with. :)

I'll also agree, and restate, that Equestria is primarily run by narrative rules. It only works in the way its writers tell it to work. What we do here is try to form a coherent world system from material that in all likelihood was never meant to contain one. (And that's fine by me. Equestria deserves better than being run by a bunch of humans.:smallannoyed:)

[Tiki Snakes]

Ino - Thing is, the topic you and Luka are discussing (whether or not he is a brony) is one that, as you can see, he can and will go on about indefinately. He won't change his opinion, we won't get anywhere, it'll just go round and round indefinately until the mods tell us to get back on topic (again).

Luka - We ignore your protestations because despite them, you're still here, still with a pony oc and avatar and still dreaming about rainbow dash. And more importantly, we've heard it all before repeatedly. :smallwink:

Be who you like, but be aware that whether or not you are comfortable calling yourself a brony just isn't important.

Also, screw talk like zecora day. That's her schtick, and I'll have nothing to do with it. I'm even ambivalent about talk like a Pirate day.


Sean - No, see, that's not what I think Thanqol means when he says it runs on Narrative Laws. It's certainly not what I understand by the term. Narrative Law IS the in-universe ruleset, not just the meta reason that the writers are writing it.

[INoKnowNames]

Yeahhhhh I mean its neat and all but talk like Zecora day... I'm not generally a masochist.

When everyone emulates what ammounts to a verbal tic, it loses a bit of its luster anyway.


Egh... Not much input for the "physics" discussion, sorry, been told more than once to not do stuff about it.
....Besides that it's just a cartoon and just forget about it anyways.

.... you and I are -too- alike in some ways. I... I need to keep my eye on you.


I'm not talking about "being a fan that likes things and others not",

I don't think I ever said being a fan. I believe those words merely come from -your- mouth. Infact, it would indeed be you talking about it, logically.


I'm talking about looking "what I like vs what I dislike" to see if I'm one or not

As was I. I rule out the possibility that one must love something 100% in order to be a fan. The only thing I believe I did say in that first part was that one must be able to use what they like to get past what they don't like if to be a fan, at the very least of what they like.


the parts that I hate let me look past the ones I like, so there :smalltongue:

Cute restating my sentence backwards. It's not so easily reversable, though. This conversation would have a completely different tone, as would the rest of your experiences here, if the things you disliked outweighed the things you liked. And if you were so adamant about it, then you probably wouldn't be asking, either.



Mostly cuz everyone seems to ignore the things I didn't like as "just doesn't like the show"

Haven't you actually been quoted as saying you didn't like the show?


but actually includes most-several-things, they end up dismissing it (unless the few times where they ask "what are you even doing here?" and then go on).

To be honest, that is a perfectly good question that goes with my previous point: If you truly hated the show to the point where your undying love for Rainbowdash and your Colt persona (and god knows what other things you do appreciate about the show, admitedly or not) don't serve to draw you past the "OMG IT'S CUTE GET IT AWAY", then why are you still in multiple different threads dedicated to ponies?


And most things I dislike seem to be what most of them like most.

Doesn't mean you're incapable of being just as much of a fan. Just that you're different. And considering we've got at least 7 billion people on this planet, that's perfectly reasonable. I bet if you looked hard enough, you could find other fans that are just like yourself.


....

Is this a yes to being a bit saddened at not recieving a welcome? I bet they'd be willing to accomidate you if you want one so badly.


(And that's fine by me. Equestria deserves better than being run by a bunch of humans.:smallannoyed:)

Hey! What's so bad about humans? :smallannoyed:


Ino - Thing is, the topic you and Luka are discussing (whether or not he is a brony) is one that, as you can see, he can and will go on about indefinately. He won't change his opinion, we won't get anywhere, it'll just go round and round indefinately until the mods tell us to get back on topic (again).

I know. It's fun watching the hamster run on his wheel, though. :smallwink:

Besides, it's rare that you guys ever get completely unified on a topic. And I'm not exactly versed enough in my own world's physics, let alone yours, to properly contribute. So I'm just killing some time until I have to be fitted for my wedding tuxedo.

I didn't realise you guys had any sort of Cosmos to you. I thought the Chaos just ran rampant throughout the thread, occasionally fooling the untrained eye to appear to have some sort of predictability by running tangent to each other occasionally.


Luka - We ignore your protestations because despite them, you're still here, still with a pony oc and avatar and still dreaming about rainbow dash. And more importantly, we've heard it all before repeatedly. :smallwink:

Be who you like, but be aware that whether or not you are comfortable calling yourself a brony just isn't important.

From one of the mouths of the Collective.

[Tiki Snakes]

No, seriously, the last time we got involved in a lengthy discussion of the sort you are having with Luka, there was mod fallout.
At least partly I suspect because such interrogation is a little bit rude.


From one of the mouths of the Collective.

I am not a number, I am a free man! (http://youtu.be/14eUKogPF7s)

[Forum Explorer]

So because she doesn't say that the lack of sun would mean a lack of nourishment for the plants, that would then mean that nothing changes? Not sure I like where you're going with this as you're opening doors to interpret a lot of things based on what Faust didn't say in there.

NMM will kill everypony, because Faust didn't say she was a pacifist. NMM will create a harem for herself, because Faust didn't explain whether or not alicorns would want physical affection.

But enough about that. Faust did not mention what NMM would do specifically, nor did she mention the implications of any of this. So anything could have happened, and until someone says that the plants don't need sunlight to grow in Equestria, I'm going to assume the world works as intended until explained differently.

I mean, Gravity works as per usual, and no one's bothered to explain if it does work or not.

I can't even remember why I quoted this originally and what's been covered in it originally. Alright here's what I have to say. Faust's word gives an interesting perspective but cannot be considered canon. Nightmare Moon wanted subjects and ponies to appreciate her night thus presumably eternal night is survivable.

Also gravity doesn't work as usual.


Okay. Pegasus flight is aerodynamically impossible.

C'mon guys, didn't the Brony Physics Video (http://youtu.be/muVfidujxRg) teach you anything? You just can't argue that MLP follows remotely the same laws of physics as the real world. The evidence against outweighs the evidence for by an order of magnitude. Are you not scientists? Don't you base your laws on observation rather than bullheaded application of dogma? Doesn't observation clearly tell you that Equestria operates on Narrative Laws rather than consistent physical laws?

I'm not sure what you mean by Narrative Laws. If that laws work as the author demands then I really hope not. It makes everything less real. I guess what I want is for the show to be relatively consistent in what ponies are capable of.


I think that's codswallop. I've always hated all the suggestions and implications that pegasus flight runs on magic, and especially the idea that whenever they do a trick they're casting spells. Where's the slightest suggestion that pegasus flight runs on magic rather than muscles and wingpower?




I like that Equestria is so magical that everything operates differently to the point where we have to start over in establishing scientific laws.

In my opinion yes Pegasi use magic by our standards. But not by pony standards. By pony standards Pegasi have no more magic then lets say Zap Apples. Which are very magical by our standards.


*skullpalm*

Doctor Who. Not Quantum Leap. Aside from nominally involving time travel, the two are about as far apart as it's possible to be.



Okay, I was going to just completely ignore this discussion, because it is no longer even passable entertaining or distantly fun, and because I am well past tired of being prempatorily told that "narrative overwrites everything in everything, yes, even then", especially when, aside from the occasional slip, I try go out of my way to add qualifers when I say something and avoid sweeping statements; because I am tired of spending not a few hours crunching numbers for order-of-magnitude calculations only to be told that "no, it never matters" or "it's still wrong"; because I am tired of having to justify myself everytime I turn around or say something, being told "too much physics" and "not enough physics" by turns; and because, most of all, I am sooo tired of spending all my interactions with everyone, be it here or with the one or two friends at roleplaying that actually ever see regularly anymore, bickering over something or other, but I have to say this, before I give up on...

...

Before I give up.

They are not YOUR characters. Not even when you write fanfiction; they are your interpretations of said characters. So, outside of said fanfictions, you don't get to tell me that they aren't.

Why do you always have to be the voice of reason before I get to post?

[SlyGuyMcFly]

So instead, I'll just throw some balls out into the field, to see if anyone trips on anything.

*Catches a few*


The Sun, whatever it is physically, does seem to be a major benefit to everyone involved in the whole "staying alive" thing. Whether or not unicorns were actually moving it by themselves in pre-Celestia times, it still seems that having the little fireball present in the sky is deemed to be of enough importance that the one pony capable of doing it by herself is appointed as the ruler of the country.

Physically moving a star doesn't necessarily require humongous quantities of energy. If one were to create a space-time curvature difference on either side of it, the star would practically move by itself. Curiously, teleportation and other forms of magical transposition are already a thing in Equestra-verse.

You just move the problem up a level. One does not create a space/time curvature without the expenditure of a vast amount of energy... Unless the laws of physics don't work how they do here.


Also, the Sun and the Moon seem to be locked to diametrically opposite points on the sky sphere. There are, likewise, no phases of the moon and no eclipses.

Weather-wise, winter is a period of shorter days and longer nights, resulting in lower average temperature. Solstice is, likewise curiously, also a thing in Equestria-verse.

It's just a few more things to consider when trying to figure out how this world works.

Definitely things to look at.


Lots of different theories and "headcanons" can be drawn out from various assessments made from the events shown in the show. Ultimately, the only "true" one is Thanqol's assessment that the reality of the show is run by narrative law. But, as a being of the meta-multiverse, I shall oppose that premise with every fiber of my.. well, being, such as it is. A universe existing on the whims of a narrative ceases to be appealing. Picture yourself in a world where everything happens exactly how you envision it, with no deviation whatsoever. If you come there from our real world, you will likely have fun for some time. But what then? Will you be happy to know that nothing can ever surprise you? That anything new that happens would be a construct of your own devising? Sooner or later you will get tired of telling things to fall down, and you'll start building a system of rules. Which things fall, which things fly, how they do the things they do.. and this is what the debate is about right now. The system so far.

And I, as an native of Wonderland and occasional inhabitant of other narrative universes, find that you misunderstand how narrative universes work. Discworld explicitly runs on narrative law, and largely concerns itself with exploring the sorts of things that would happen in such a universe, such as what occurs when someone attempts to subvert the laws or exploit loopholes, or how those savvy enough can use them to their advantage. The books featuring Granny Weatherwax or DEATH are probably the best at this.

Narrative laws are, as strange as it may sound, pretty much the same thing as... hmm. I'll call them math-based laws. They both serve to do the same thing, accurately describe how the universe works. A narrative universe is no more deterministic than a mathy one.



Sean - No, see, that's not what I think Thanqol means when he says it runs on Narrative Laws. It's certainly not what I understand by the term. Narrative Law IS the in-universe ruleset, not just the meta reason that the writers are writing it.

Exactly! Narrative universes are universes where "seventh sons always become wizards" is as much a law of physics as "F=m·a" is over here.



Terrible science is pretty much inevitable in our case. The only way to unravel the mystery of the black body was to do more experiments. Any good science requires experiments (chemistry, physics, biology), or at least a firm understanding of underlying "smaller" laws (astrophysics). We have to work only with the canon we get. Which means we have to either make some rather broad assumptions, or stop (over)analyzing altogether.
http://i.imgur.com/PDKIo.png To the categorizo-mobile!
Ways to discuss the laws of ponyverse:

Everything we see in the show is explainable by a set of laws. There are possibly some exceptions (Pinkie, Discord).
It's magic/narrativism, there are no laws.


Narrative universes operate on their own, more convoluted and flexible, laws. That they are not the natural laws of our universe does not stop them from being natural laws, in the broad sense of "this is how things happen". Likewise, magic usually comes with rules and general principles that pass for laws. Not in all universes, but it seems to be the case in Equestria given that spells can be read off a scroll.



The full set of laws can be described several ways. Keep in mind, it's the same physics, just decomposed differently:

snip

Good breakdown of the problem, there. That Equestrian natural law is such that we can mostly assume that the end result of them resembles our universe (assumption 3) is actually supported by evidence. When I say that we cannot assume Equestria works like our universe, I just mean to say that the laws are fundamentally different. That the end result of those laws sorta-kinda resembles the end-result of our own laws is quite evident to me. The assumption I'm disagreeing with is that because the results are superficially similar the laws that resulted in such similarity must also be so.



It doesn't need to be. A properly enough, and creatively enough written world can have the two premises be completely different.

For instance, there is a fictional world called Tryslmaistan, in which there is no gravity as is usually thought of. Instead, there is a set of laws governing the principles by which everything in the universe attempts to fall linearly "down", except objects above a certain size, which float. (it's called "linovection", iirc) It also explains why particles form triangular crystals instead of spheres when they cluster together, as well as why each immense triangular world plate has a day orb and a night orb that spin around it, creating "day" and "night".

That example just goes to support the "don't assume our-universe physics apply" thesis. If the evidence contradicts Universal Gravitation, Universal Gravitation is obviously not applicable. This is the case of the world you describe, and also true of Equestria. Problem is, physical laws are largely so interdependent that if you change something as core as Universal Gravitation, you pretty much have to change everything else to compensate for that change and make sure the end result of the new set of physical laws is something that loosely resembles our universe in the right way.

Basically, what Soras is saying.



I prefer my hypothesis: The laws of physics apply unless we have evidence otherwise. Evidence of some differences between Equestrian physics and our physics is not evidence of differences that we have not yet observed.

Evidence of some differences between Equestrian physics and our physics means that our physics don't always work in Equestria. Which means that our physics is not a good explanatory and predictive tool in Equestria. A physical law that only works half the time is a really bad physical law!


Then I've done my job. I always find it -so- entertaining when people can get into a Collegic Debate over Physics and the Universe... in a cartoon.

Seriously, it's a good read, even if I don't understand it.

I'm glad we're not boring all the people not involved in this! :smallbiggrin:



I like that Equestria is so magical that everything operates differently to the point where we have to start over in establishing scientific laws.

In my opinion yes Pegasi use magic by our standards. But not by pony standards. By pony standards Pegasi have no more magic then lets say Zap Apples. Which are very magical by our standards.

That is exactly what I think, only with less words and betterly said.

[Forum Explorer]

No, seriously, the last time we got involved in a lengthy discussion of the sort you are having with Luka, there was mod fallout.
At least partly I suspect because such interrogation is a little bit rude.



I am not a number, I am a free man Pony! (http://youtu.be/14eUKogPF7s)

Fixed it for you :smalltongue:



So to perhaps change the discussion a bit;

Everfree forest is called out as being a place where plants, animals, and weather all take care of themselves and change by themselves. Note that it doesn't say without Pony interference. So other species such as Griffons may also maintain their environments.

So this brings up so interesting questions.

One what happens in places where no one at all is taking care of things? Do they all die? Do they just not grow?

Two do other species actually take care of the land around them? How would they differ from ponies?

[Soras Teva Gee]

Going by "science as science" is therefore an exercise in frustration, as we aren't even sure whether the events take place on an actual astronomical body or some sort of "world plane" with an infinite rotating sky-sphere above it, and turtlestortoises all the way down.

I'm of the actual opinion that Equestria is in fact a flat plane, its thus far fairly consistent with how we never see signs of a horizon and dovetails well with having a sun and moon raised not simply rotated around a static sphere. I've no opinion on whether this makes say the stars holes in the celestial sphere, little star ponies that trot across the sky, or the luminescent tears Luna spread in the sky.

However Equestria being round or flat does not require outright contradicting the show so its all just theory. It running on anything like physics does.


Having absolutely no base to work from will not get you anywhere when you lack an actual universe that you can observe.

I don't need to get anywhere.

This began by several of us pointing out that the implication of eternal-night=eternal-winter doesn't hold up. So we can't really say the NMM intended to kill everypony via slow starvation.


Gravitation can still work exactly the same. All it needs is an amendment to account for specific types of energy being applied, and it will still work flawlessly.

Universal gravitation requires you know it be universal. It is as specific and elegant as it is all-encompassing. Truly a fundamental force.

And Equestria being demonstrably not heliocentric however is no mere simple amendment, you need immediately an alternate explanation for planetary and stellar formation as relevant to the planet in question.

That's not working flawlessly, that awkwardly crammming gravity into a creation where the divine Fausticorn drawing the land and sky for all her little ponies is rather more sensible then some cosmic exception... because?


This is one of those things that a little insignificant patch of overgrown land called the Everfree Forest really makes a good reference point for. There are areas in Equestria that ponies do not control. This shows that, in fact, there is a "natural" course of things, that not everything remains static when direct application of pony-controlled magic is not involved. What magic does is provide a means to control that "natural" course.

However gravity explains why planets exist at all in the first place, so any considerations about their weather and cycles are somewhat secondary.

Of course Equestria has observable natural phenomena. I don't think anyone is supposing that magic means everything only happens because some pony magic user makes it happen. Just that the underlying basis should not be expected to follow physics.


What if, quite like the weather, the movement of celestial bodies is also managed? Not held precariously on rails by invisible strands of magic, but simply nudged into a course that is beneficial?

NMM appeared at dawn... and the dawn never happened.

So observably the celestial bodies are directly controllable by the princesses.


If Equestria-verse's only difference from our reality is the existence of these universal "magical handles" on everything, readily available for use by anyone of sufficient skill and power, would that not be a simpler explanation?

Not really, because magical handles as the only change begs the question of why NMM didn't turn everypony into dead pony goo when she stopped the Equestrian planet and yet everypony else would still have the inertia from their own rotation along with the planet. Not to mention the sheer forces involved.

(Nevermind how it really conceptually weakens the eternal night when the Zebra's or Camels or Illama's or whatever lives opposite Equestria gets eternal daylight and eternal twilight. This is really only resolvable with a flat material plane though)

And of course stopping not using a heliocentric setup like reality again demand what exactly the sun is.

Seriously the answer that the magical land of Equestria is magically birthed makes far much more sense and while it of course opens many questions each individual answer does not cause problems for the rest of the answers.


Again, same principle applies. We can't make observations in a universe we can see only through a storyteller's words. We can know only as much as he tells us. If you completely reject the "old" base, you have absolutely nothing to stand on, except the everpresent "magic".

Which I am comfortable with.

If they explain that the stars are star ponies trotting across the sky though I won't have a fanon collapse should that happen. I'm looking only at underlying principle, that then allows everything else to have whatever explanation it likes.



It is, on the contrary, applied to any semi-realistic 'verse. Things like thrown objects having inertia, polished surfaces reflecting light, a fire being hot, etc, are expected to hold true unless otherwise noted. Without using real physics as a base, one can only create a believable world with an amount of time and effort that most writers don't want to invest.

Equestria is not semi-realistic. Its a self-described magical land full techicolor four foot talking sentient ponies with bizzare and possibly amorphous facial structures and explicit powers over magic, the sky, and agriculture ruled by a thousand-year old princess.



I'll also agree, and restate, that Equestria is primarily run by narrative rules. It only works in the way its writers tell it to work.

Narrative rules are actually a separate phenomena that apply to varying degrees to any reality. While they aren't entirely separate, such as the line between functional developed magics and Disneyesque fairy-tale magics, they aren't the same thing

Narrative rules are averted say when Dashie actually takes ten actual seconds to accomplish ten seconds flat, and not some 'dramatically appropriate' time length. Either case she still did it in ten seconds from a canon perspective, but depiction either was or was not subject to artistic license.

Her flight is still fantastic and impossible from an Earth perspective, but its following a reasonably consistent rule that pegasi can fly.

[INoKnowNames]

No, seriously, the last time we got involved in a lengthy discussion of the sort you are having with Luka, there was mod fallout.
At least partly I suspect because such interrogation is a little bit rude.

I didn't think I was being rude. Nor was I forcing anything upon him, at least as far as I know.

The doubtful young colt wanted to chat, and while the ponies were talking about physics and magic and aerodynamics and meteorology, the human felt like answering while getting ready to be fitted for his monkey suit.

Nothing rule breaking about any of that, right?


I am not a number, I am a free man! (http://youtu.be/14eUKogPF7s)

I doubt that.


Fixed it for you :smalltongue:

And apparently, so does the collective.


I'm glad we're not boring all the people not involved in this! :smallbiggrin:

To be fair though, to me, it's less about the this, and more about the this existing in the first place. That you guys can be so energetic about the kind of subjects people spend money to get yelled at about for years.... It's just fascinating how much thought you all put into this.

[Forum Explorer]

And apparently, so does the collective.


A herd. A group of ponies is called a herd. :smallbiggrin:

Darn I can't find a clip to that simpsons episode with the crows.:smallfrown:

[Gamerlord]

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/373/265/968.jpg
I have no idea what is going on today, so I'll just say that enough things in the show contradict each other that I consider the only laws the show runs on are the laws of the Episode Writer's Headcanon and go back to my daily anime binge. :smalltongue:

[Soras Teva Gee]

I didn't think I was being rude. Nor was I forcing anything upon him, at least as far as I know.

The doubtful young colt wanted to chat, and while the ponies were talking about physics and magic and aerodynamics and meteorology, the human felt like answering while getting ready to be fitted for his monkey suit.

Nothing rule breaking about any of that, right?

Just that Luka has been running through a cycle of questioning his bronyness yet still hanging around inexplicably for months now. So we doubt you are going to break new ground.


http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/373/265/968.jpg
I have no idea what is going on.

Not one for metaphysics. We can get more arcane if you like:

Tommorrow on Ponythread, how many pony angels can dance on the head of a pin?

[INoKnowNames]

A herd. A group of ponies is called a herd. :smallbiggrin:

Eh, scemantics. Swarm, Cluster, Hive, Herd, Collective, Unit... same same.


http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/373/265/968.jpg

.... Poor Nina....


Just that Luka has been running through a cycle of questioning his bronyness yet still hanging around inexplicably for months now. So we doubt you are going to break new ground.

It's ultimately not up to me, so much as it is him. He's just the only other person talking about something that I can actually talk back about. And I'm just trying to kill some time.

Whether or not it's useless, doesn't change the fact that it doesn't go explicitly against the rules, right? It doesn't matter to me if he submits to the swarm or not (other than me being more alone). I just thought it'd be polite to share words.


Not one for metaphysics. We can get more arcane if you like:

Tommorrow on Ponythread, how many pony angels can dance on the head of a pin?

... what the ****?

Seriously, that went right over my head: nnnnNNNNNnnnow.

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/1050826_o.gif

[Anarion]

I didn't think I was being rude. Nor was I forcing anything upon him, at least as far as I know.

The doubtful young colt wanted to chat, and while the ponies were talking about physics and magic and aerodynamics and meteorology, the human felt like answering while getting ready to be fitted for his monkey suit.

Nothing rule breaking about any of that.

It's a tad off topic and we've been specifically asked to avoid it in the past. Perhaps better to err on the side of caution?


http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/373/265/968.jpg
I have no idea what is going on today, so I'll just say that enough things in the show contradict each other that I consider the only laws the show runs on are the laws of the Episode Writer's Headcanon and go back to my daily anime binge. :smalltongue:

Are you upset if somepony does physics to analyze how fast a pony is going or how much force a spell exerts? I don't think any pony is saying that physics applies 100%, but I do get the sense that some ponies are a bit miffed that every time they bring up any science they get a response that oft times amounts to "your science is worthless, mwahaha!"

[Gamerlord]

Are you upset if somepony does physics to analyze how fast a pony is going or how much force a spell exerts? I don't think any pony is saying that physics applies 100%, but I do get the sense that some ponies are a bit miffed that every time they bring up any science they get a response that oft times amounts to "your science is worthless, mwahaha!"
I'm not saying you shouldn't use physics to calculate how fast a pony runs, I'm just saying don't be surprised if another episode comes along and blows that analysis to pieces.


Not one for metaphysics. We can get more arcane if you like:

Tommorrow on Ponythread, how many pony angels can dance on the head of a pin?
...You know what, let's stick to metaphysics.

[Beacon of Chaos]

And I would like to say something heretical.

Word of Faust means jack diddly squat.
http://scranton.mylittlefacewhen.com/media/f/rsz/mlfw7675_medium.jpg


http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/373/265/968.jpg
This was my reaction this morning, yeah.


So, here's Twilight learning how to dance. (http://tinyurl.com/c9b6dfn)

And a rather dark interpretation of the changeling race:
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/5821/prevfallofthechangeling.png

And now for something a little happier:
http://cdn.derpiboo.ru/media/BAhbBlsHOgZmSSJZMjAxMi8wOC8zMS8yM180OV80NV84MjBfOD czMjBfX1VOT1BUX19zYWZlX3F1ZWVuX2NocnlzYWxpc19jaGFu Z2VsaW5nX2Rvb21pZV9qaW1taWVzBjoGRVQ/87320__safe_queen-chrysalis_changeling_doomie.png

http://cdn.derpiboo.ru/media/BAhbBlsHOgZmSSIrMjAxMi8wOS8wNC8xMV8zNV8zMV81OTRfOD k4MjlfX1VOT1BUX18GOgZFVA/89829__safe_screencap_changeling_doomie.png

He has been nicknamed Doomie because folks say he's also the changeling that Pinkie met ("Do me!").

[Mabn]

Terrible science is pretty much inevitable in our case. The only way to unravel the mystery of the black body was to do more experiments. Any good science requires experiments (chemistry, physics, biology), or at least a firm understanding of underlying "smaller" laws (astrophysics). We have to work only with the canon we get. Which means we have to either make some rather broad assumptions, or stop (over)analyzing altogether.
I am not even close to being able to follow major ponythread debates in their entirety, but you seem to only be considering classical experimental sciences like chemistry in which experiments are closed and controlled phenomenon initiated by the scientists collecting data from them. Several sciences exist and function despite such experiments being impossible (most of our understanding of black holes does not come from making black holes). These sciences function, in general, by treating existing instances of their phenomena as indirect experiments and attempting to derive conclusions from them. The advantage those sciences have over our efforts, again, in general is simply more data. They exist in a larger universe and more instances and depth of instances exist for phenomena of interest. When these come short it is possible to drive into even greater numbers of indirectly related phenomena and extrapolate. Being limited by 2 seasons of episodes we do not have said luxury, hence all our conjecture must have far lower degrees of certainty. However what we do can qualitatively be considered a science which uses experimentation despite the quantitative limits on the veracity of our surmiseable conclusions.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

It is, on the contrary, applied to any semi-realistic 'verse. Things like thrown objects having inertia, polished surfaces reflecting light, a fire being hot, etc, are expected to hold true unless otherwise noted. Without using real physics as a base, one can only create a believable world with an amount of time and effort that most writers don't want to invest.

"Fire is hot" and "polished surfaces reflect light" are not the laws of physics. They are observable phenomena that we explain and describe via the laws of physics. Those same phenomena can have any number of explanations, depending on the universe in which they are observed.

Which leads to the sticking point of the discussion, I think. Nobody (again, I think) denies that, by and large, we can assume what phenomena we can expect to observe in day-to-day situations in Equestria will be largely the same as those we see here. In that, very, very loose sense, we can apply the laws of physics. We're just saying stuff looks like stuff in our universe unless noted otherwise. That much is obviously true. However, this does not mean that the laws describing the underlying principles of how those phenomena occur (the laws of physics) are the same and indeed there is a very substantial body of evidence that suggests otherwise.

"Fire is hot" is true in Equestria, and we can happily assume other similarly banal observations to will also be true. "Fire is hot because the process of breaking and reforming of the atomic bonds of the fuel and air leads to a lower energy state and, as Conservation of Energy requires, the remaining energy is transferred to translational, vibrational and rotational energy of the newly formed molecules" almost certainly isn't, and other explanations for observed phenomena won't be either.

[INoKnowNames]

It's a tad off topic and we've been specifically asked to avoid it in the past. Perhaps better to err on the side of caution?

Eh. Fine with me, I guess, though ya'll just ignore him whenever he does pop in and ask? Doesn't seem very polite, but I guess I'd rather not screw everyone else over just to be polite to one.

Seems like something different must have happened the time the mod came out, if it's kept going a few more times since. What did you guys do?


...You know what, let's stick to metaphysics.

...

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/gaslamp-fantasy_gg_2560.jpg

[Alabenson]

One what happens in places where no one at all is taking care of things? Do they all die? Do they just not grow?

Two do other species actually take care of the land around them? How would they differ from ponies?

1) Based on the existence and flourishing of the Everfree Forest, I'd say we can conclude that animals and plants can survive without pony help. What could be the case is that ponies aren't needed for plants and animals to survive, but instead they help them flourish.

2) This is a harder question to answer, since we really haven't seen areas where other species live in aside from the diamond dogs and dragons, and neither of those species seem to care much for the land around them.

[Soras Teva Gee]

... what the ****?

Seriously, that went right over my head: nnnnNNNNNnnnow.


Its the ultimate in Serious Business. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_many_angels_can_dance_on_the_head_of_a_pin)




...You know what, let's stick to metaphysics.

Come on, you know you wanna know now don't you?

[INoKnowNames]

Its the ultimate in Serious Business. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_many_angels_can_dance_on_the_head_of_a_pin)

Learned a new thing! *Zelda Jingle*


Come on, you know you wanna know now don't you?

About Arcane, or Metaphysics? I'd be happy to learn magic if it can be taught... though I'd prefer ki...

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Tommorrow on Ponythread, how many pony angels can dance on the head of a pin?

As many as Iron Hoof Celestia wants to see dancing on the pin and not one more!



Are you upset if somepony does physics to analyze how fast a pony is going or how much force a spell exerts? I don't think any pony is saying that physics applies 100%, but I do get the sense that some ponies are a bit miffed that every time they bring up any science they get a response that oft times amounts to "your science is worthless, mwahaha!"

And I do think these ponies are right to be miffed when told so when they try to calculate Dashie's speed and stuff like that. It's a fun thought exercise, and nopony should be told to not have their fun!

But when real-world physics get used as a basis for predictions or explanation on how stuff works in Equestria and presented for consideration... then the assumption can be fairly challenged. Although, as you say, this challenge often comes in the poorly-built form of "science is useless, nyah!". We're doing better than that this time around, I hope!


http://cdn.derpiboo.ru/media/BAhbBlsHOgZmSSIrMjAxMi8wOS8wNC8xMV8zNV8zMV81OTRfOD k4MjlfX1VOT1BUX18GOgZFVA/89829__safe_screencap_changeling_doomie.png

He has been nicknamed Doomie because folks say he's also the changeling that Pinkie met ("Do me!").

Pfffff-thahahahaha!

And seriously I'm going to bow out of the discussion for the day. Every time I post stuff about the stuff people are saying there's new posts saying stuff I want to say stuff about and I'll be up all night at this rate.

[Anarion]

Tommorrow on Ponythread,[/B] how many pony angels can dance on the head of a pin?

None. Everypony knows that ponyangels are just a made up story to get little foals to behave. http://i.imgur.com/dDGKR.png



Seems like something different must have happened the time the mod came out, if it's kept going a few more times since. What did you guys do?


I'd suggest PMing Kpenguin if you want to discuss what's okay to talk about. Don't really know anymore myself.



And I do think these ponies are right to be miffed when told so when they try to calculate Dashie's speed and stuff like that. It's a fun thought exercise, and nopony should be told to not have their fun!

But when real-world physics get used as a basis for predictions or explanation on how stuff works in Equestria and presented for consideration... then the assumption can be fairly challenged. Although, as you say, this challenge often comes in the poorly-built form of "science is useless, nyah!". We're doing better than that this time around, I hope!


Well, certainly if the show later contradicts something calculated with science then the scientists need to change how they're doing their calculations. But lots of aspects of the pony world clearly work on a sort of general understanding of modern physics. Forces and movement and friction all work normally, and it would be very hard to talk about anything if you want to say "no, actually Pinkie Pie iceskates because magic, and dust gets kicked up by galloping ponies because magic." Forces and such still work normally. Applejack spinning and throwing a lasso certainly looks like something that we could estimate by doing some math with the centripetal force. The sonic rainboom, which is fantastic, still has a mach cone form and has been analyzed in that physics brony presentation.

Other things have happened that contradict physics. These either indicate a different functioning of physics or dark matter butterflies. But if something presently lacks no contradictions, doing physics on it now is fine and shouldn't be attacked imo. If it gets contradicted later, we shrug and revise our theories.

[Forum Explorer]

1) Based on the existence and flourishing of the Everfree Forest, I'd say we can conclude that animals and plants can survive without pony help. What could be the case is that ponies aren't needed for plants and animals to survive, but instead they help them flourish.

2) This is a harder question to answer, since we really haven't seen areas where other species live in aside from the diamond dogs and dragons, and neither of those species seem to care much for the land around them.

1) Ah but the Everfree Forest is specifically called out for being different. Which in a way implies that outside of the Everfree Forest they can't.

2) Well there are the buffalo as well. They seem to care for the land to a degree.

[Pokonic]

So this brings up so interesting questions.

One what happens in places where no one at all is taking care of things? Do they all die? Do they just not grow?

Two do other species actually take care of the land around them? How would they differ from ponies?

Buffalo might actualy stomp the wild out of the ground. No, literaly. The "Mild" West has just enough water around because, as a defensive mesure, the Buffalo have been literaly stomping out the realy wild parts as they go about there migrations, henceforth making weather blow in only occasionaly. Griffons, according to my headcanon, probably live up in the hills and mountains, where they control the rate snow melts and such. Zebras probably are in some advanced and intricate system with what I can only assume around five other sentinents to keep there homelands in good condition, with them serving the Earth-Pony role. Dimond Dogs probably just dig around for gems, but they are also exposing gems for easy pickings for what one could assume for rock-eating creatures (like dragons) to consume and leave vast tunnels that are later used by other creatures for homes (Corray Eels).


....That way longer then I thought it would be.


1) Ah but the Everfree Forest is specifically called out for being different. Which in a way implies that outside of the Everfree Forest they can't.

2) Well there are the buffalo as well. They seem to care for the land to a degree.

As for one, ponies seem to be pretty much unknowlageable about things outside there cozy homes. Heck, full-grown adults who probably at least went to school had no idea what a Zebra was.

[Alabenson]

1) Ah but the Everfree Forest is specifically called out for being different. Which in a way implies that outside of the Everfree Forest they can't.

2) Well there are the buffalo as well. They seem to care for the land to a degree.

1) The Everfree Forest is said to be different, but is it different because there are no ponies there, or is it different because it's different.
Also, we've seen other apparently wild areas outside of Equestria, and they seem to be flourishing as well.

2) That's a very valid point, I had forgotten about the buffalo. Given that, I'd say it probably depends on the individual species, with some caring about the land they live on, while others could care less.

[asdflove]

and The one and only Belkar Bitterleaf! http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponified-SEXY-SHOELESS-GOD-OF-WAR-325000257


Out of the blue I show up with art. I love Ponifiying things.
http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Haley-Ponified-324734385
http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponified-Elan-324688093
http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/ElanXHaley-Ponified-Cuddle-324748159

(Sorry That I just linked it, they are far too big to put here as an image, even in a spoiler box)

And now V. But I'm not super happy with this one. Not androgynous enough.
http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponified-Vaarsuvius-324948639
Aaaand Roy's turn
http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponifed-Roy-324959487
Durkon- http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponified-Durkon-324984292
http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Group-Shot-325193295 They be all together!

MITD-http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/MITD-ponified-325332744

[Forum Explorer]

I think that the real question is what would have happened if Fluttershy had hit a cloud on the way down. I think it would have stopped her just the same, so it wouldn't take a lot to stop a falling Pegasus.

[QUOTE=Soras Teva Gee;13841040]
Not one for metaphysics. We can get more arcane if you like:

Tommorrow on Ponythread, how many pony angels can dance on the head of a pin?

What would Pony angels even look like? No really! It's no like we can just slap on wings.


Buffalo might actualy stomp the wild out of the ground. No, literaly. The "Mild" West has just enough water around because, as a defensive mesure, the Buffalo have been literaly stomping out the realy wild parts as they go about there migrations, henceforth making weather blow in only occasionaly. Griffons, according to my headcanon, probably live up in the hills and mountains, where they control the rate snow melts and such. Zebras probably are in some advanced and intricate system with what I can only assume around five other sentinents to keep there homelands in good condition, with them serving the Earth-Pony role. Dimond Dogs probably just dig around for gems, but they are also exposing gems for easy pickings for what one could assume for rock-eating creatures (like dragons) to consume and leave vast tunnels that are later used by other creatures for homes (Corray Eels).


....That way longer then I thought it would be.



As for one, ponies seem to be pretty much unknowlageable about things outside there cozy homes. Heck, full-grown adults who probably at least went to school had no idea what a Zebra was.

1) That's awesome.

2) Well true. That is a point. I mean Twilight knew what Zecora was but is that because of her superior education or her habit of reading obscure books?


1) The Everfree Forest is said to be different, but is it different because there are no ponies there, or is it different because it's different.
Also, we've seen other apparently wild areas outside of Equestria, and they seem to be flourishing as well.

2) That's a very valid point, I had forgotten about the buffalo. Given that, I'd say it probably depends on the individual species, with some caring about the land they live on, while others could care less.

1) That's the question isn't it? The other wild areas haven't been uninhabited in the same way though. Well perhaps. They don't have to be uninhabited in the same way. (I can only think of a few time, once with the Buffalo (which isn't uninhabited, it has Buffalo) and the Dragon Migration (which may be inhabited, just not by ponies) can you think of any other times where they went to a 'wild' location?)

[Pokonic]

Okay, just posting this theory that just popped into my head about the Season Three opener.
There is no such thing as a Chrystal Pony. A Chrystal Pony is mearly a pony mind-controled by the seasons Big Bad, and when Candace takes up the throne she gets possessed Nightmare-style. Ponyville got abandoned because everypony moved to the Chrystal Kingdom and became "loyal subjects of the Chrystal Kingdom".

[Maxtronaut]

Okay, just posting this theory that just popped into my head about the Season Three opener.
There is no such thing as a Chrystal Pony. A Chrystal Pony is mearly a pony mind-controled by the seasons Big Bad, and when Candace takes up the throne she gets possessed Nightmare-style. Ponyville got abandoned because everypony moved to the Chrystal Kingdom and became "loyal subjects of the Chrystal Kingdom".

Leave it to the undead cultist to come up with min-control based crack theories. :smalltongue:

[Beacon of Chaos]

MITD-http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/MITD-ponified-325332744
Hah! I didn't even think that would be possible. Well done!

[asdflove]

Hah! I didn't even think that would be possible. Well done!

Thanks, Red Cloak is next

[Ravian]

.... Poor Nina....


Nitpicky but I don't think that's the episode. The background is a street scape, most likely central. They found out about Nina in Tucker's lab.

If I could make a guess I'd say it's the first episode with Issac the freezer


As for the physics in Equestria disscussion. It's a cartoon guys let's not get so into it. :smallsigh:

[Gamerlord]

Nitpicky but I don't think that's the episode. The background is a street scape, most likely central. They found out about Nina in Tucker's lab.

If I could make a guess I'd say it's the first episode with Issac the freezer


As for the physics in Equestria disscussion. It's a cartoon guys let's not get so into it. :smallsigh:
Actually, I'm 90% sure it's the 2003 anime's version of Nina's tragic fate. I was just watching it as part of my aforementioned anime binge and Ed makes those exact faces when he sees what Scar has done to Nina (In this version, Scar does you-know-what to her in an alley.)
EDIT: Here is the evidence. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdSj55vLrm8&feature=player_detailpage#t=1300s)

[DigoDragon]

we're these light levels constant?
I see our difference. By extinction I figured you meant in the sense f a species going extinct. I don't think that would happen en masse. 60% of everything dying? Maybe. 100% of anything? No.

Light levels were constant yes. I even bummed power off the school just to save money at home. :smallredface:
There is the possibility that an entire species does go extinct. Some plants and animals may be so delicate in their ecosystem in similar terms as ours, that they die off before the sapient species can discover them. Possible, but we just don't know enough of Equestria for any kind of number guessing games.
But I think we can at least agree that we only have theories on the subject right now, yes?


Have a round of pony images for being a good civilized debater:

80's Twilight--
http://th03.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2012/246/3/d/80s_twilight_by_skipsypony-d5dhzfo.jpg

Birth of a Plushie--
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/233/5/2/birth_of_a_plushie__commissioned__by_tan575-d5byr0n.png

Humanized Trixie--
http://th05.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2012/005/c/2/great_and_powerful_by_pluckyninja-d4ldcmv.jpg
This last one might inspire the form if my Trixie character does pick up a human spell.

[Alabenson]

As for the physics in Equestria disscussion. It's a cartoon guys let's not get so into it. :smallsigh:

There's really only one way I can respond to something like that.

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/270/530/0ca.jpg

[Tvtyrant]

Light levels were constant yes. I even bummed power off the school just to save money at home. :smallredface:
There is the possibility that an entire species does go extinct. Some plants and animals may be so delicate in their ecosystem in similar terms as ours, that they die off before the sapient species can discover them. Possible, but we just don't know enough of Equestria for any kind of number guessing games.
But I think we can at least agree that we only have theories on the subject right now, yes?


Have a round of pony images for being a good civilized debater:

80's Twilight--
http://skipsypony.deviantart.com/art/80s-Twilight-325004964

Birth of a Plushie--
http://tan575.deviantart.com/art/Birth-of-a-plushie-commissioned-322427975

Humanized Trixie--
http://pluckyninja.deviantart.com/art/Great-and-Powerful-277759543
This last one might inspire the form if my Trixie character does pick up a human spell.

I can't see any of the pictures, the links are apparently broken (or my computer!)

[PhantomFox]

Are y'all done the wall-o-text physics argument yet? Can I come back into the thread?

[Colonel Fedora]

All of you ponies must have gone mad.
In a few minutes half a page you had.

What in the world possessed you folks?
You're cracking so much that I can see yolks.

Running in circles, like hens without heads.
Or maybe a man who forgot his meds.

Perhaps we should speak of something that's nicer.
Like how Trixie compares to a certain Jack Spicer.

So I stall,
that is all.

[Soras Teva Gee]

As many as Iron Hoof Celestia wants to see dancing on the pin and not one more!

Tyranny is no philosophical answer!


None. Everypony knows that ponyangels are just a made up story to get little foals to behave. http://i.imgur.com/dDGKR.png

O ye of little faith!


As for one, ponies seem to be pretty much unknowlageable about things outside there cozy homes. Heck, full-grown adults who probably at least went to school had no idea what a Zebra was.

We no real evidence of there being education beyond primary school level either. I mean Twilight of course excepted.



What would Pony angels even look like? No really! It's no like we can just slap on wings.

Well we could try actual angelic traits like wheels with eyes. Or six wings with two over the face and two over the "feet"

[asdflove]

MITD-http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/MITD-ponified-325332744

and The one and only Belkar Bitterleaf! http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponified-SEXY-SHOELESS-GOD-OF-WAR-325000257


Out of the blue I show up with art. I love Ponifiying things.
http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Haley-Ponified-324734385
http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponified-Elan-324688093
http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/ElanXHaley-Ponified-Cuddle-324748159

(Sorry That I just linked it, they are far too big to put here as an image, even in a spoiler box)

And now V. But I'm not super happy with this one. Not androgynous enough.
http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponified-Vaarsuvius-324948639
Aaaand Roy's turn
http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponifed-Roy-324959487
Durkon- http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponified-Durkon-324984292
http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Group-Shot-325193295 They be all together! (Find the rest through here)

http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponified-Redcloak-325351301 Redcloak

[Pokonic]

Well we could try actual angelic traits like wheels with eyes. Or six wings with two over the face and two over the "feet"

Alternitivly, they could be geometrical-ish but in the shape of a pony. Like, a wire outline that is seemingly in constent motion like quicksilver, and with two burning hoops levitating near it for wings.

But who says they must be bound to pony traits? They could have swords placed on there "head" like donkey ears and great spears with little orbs circling around it like freaky minotaur horns. A mohawk of liquid light could do nicely as well. No need for single blueprints for wings, either: bat-like frames with sheets of painted glass could do fine. And of course, the greatest among them would have dragonlike scales made of rubies, each with a thousand singing souls inside them.

Of course, they would probably be more like Alicorns with little halos.:smallsmile:

[Alabenson]

Not one for metaphysics. We can get more arcane if you like:

Tommorrow on Ponythread, how many pony angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Clearly, we must approach this problem through the wonders of SCIENCE! First, we'll need to capture a large number of angels...

[Ravian]

Actually, I'm 90% sure it's the 2003 anime's version of Nina's tragic fate. I was just watching it as part of my aforementioned anime binge and Ed makes those exact faces when he sees what Scar has done to Nina (In this version, Scar does you-know-what to her in an alley.)
EDIT: Here is the evidence. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdSj55vLrm8&feature=player_detailpage#t=1300s)

Ah my mistake, been a while since I saw the first anime. Either way Tucker deserves every second in hell he gets. :smallmad:

[Soras Teva Gee]

(Find the rest through here)

http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponified-Redcloak-325351301 Redcloak

You know one of these days you I'm going use these to demonstrate Rule 34p to my great joy. Thank you.


Alternitivly, they could be geometrical-ish but in the shape of a pony. Like, a wire outline that is seemingly in constent motion like quicksilver, and with two burning hoops levitating near it for wings.

But who says they must be bound to pony traits? They could have swords placed on there "head" like donkey ears and great spears with little orbs circling around it like freaky minotaur horns. A mohawk of liquid light could do nicely as well. No need for single blueprints for wings, either: bat-like frames with sheets of painted glass could do fine. And of course, the greatest among them would have dragonlike scales made of rubies, each with a thousand singing souls inside them.

This I like this.


Of course, they would probably be more like Alicorns with little halos.:smallsmile:

Ponyfeathers to this.


Clearly, we must approach this problem through the wonders of SCIENCE! First, we'll need to capture a large number of angels...

Sure see how that works out for you. You know how angels used to greet mere mortals with a seemingly counter-productive FEAR NOT right and how just one what thought sufficient to guard the Garden of Eden and all?

I'll battle the Lich and his entire fleet if I have to. I'd loose to the combined might but I'd do it. One of them things, heck no I'm runnin the other way.

[SiuiS]

It's worth mentioning that Narrative law is not incompatable with things that seem to observe physics, but Physics is often incompatable with things that follow Narrative Law. So ponies falling when they slip off a cliff works with either, whereas Pinkie being in Dash's hiding place before Dash works easier under Narrative Law than Physics.

Huh. This is the wrong quote. Ah well.

How ya doin' Tiki? Ya doin' good?



Are you upset if somepony does physics to analyze how fast a pony is going or how much force a spell exerts? I don't think any pony is saying that physics applies 100%, but I do get the sense that some ponies are a bit miffed that every time they bring up any science they get a response that oft times amounts to "your science is worthless, mwahaha!"

Yeah. There's a world of difference between "as your equal I feel I can prove you wrong" and "lol no ur dum its a cartoon".


I'm not saying you shouldn't use physics to calculate how fast a pony runs, I'm just saying don't be surprised if another episode comes along and blows that analysis to pieces.

...You know what, let's stick to metaphysics.

That's not a problem. That's refining the data set.


MITD-http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/MITD-ponified-325332744

That's really clever! It's eyes really lend well to the pony style.
I can't get Redcloak to load :smallfrown:



What would Pony angels even look like? No really! It's no like we can just slap on wings.

On the contrary!

Silver Lining is a winged pony angel... A winged pegasus pony angel!
Actually I think she's a seraph earth pony but who can say


Okay, just posting this theory that just popped into my head about the Season Three opener.
There is no such thing as a Chrystal Pony. A Chrystal Pony is mearly a pony mind-controled by the seasons Big Bad, and when Candace takes up the throne she gets possessed Nightmare-style. Ponyville got abandoned because everypony moved to the Chrystal Kingdom and became "loyal subjects of the Chrystal Kingdom".

I don't think crystal has an H in it. It's a nice ringer for Chrysallis, but seeing as we have the official spelling already, I don't think they are going o make that connection.



As for the physics in Equestria disscussion. It's a cartoon guys let's not get so into it. :smallsigh:

That's not helpful at all. It's telling people who are invested in something that they don't matter. It's what cause such a huge conflagration in the first place.

The rule of D&D don't matter. It's just adult make-believe! But look at te rules debates there? Should they just give up and let it be because it's just a game?


Light levels were constant yes. I even bummed power off the school just to save money at home. :smallredface:
There is the possibility that an entire species does go extinct. Some plants and animals may be so delicate in their ecosystem in similar terms as ours, that they die off before the sapient species can discover them. Possible, but we just don't know enough of Equestria for any kind of number guessing games.
But I think we can at least agree that we only have theories on the subject right now, yes?

Well, I can't exactly argue with you. I dislike the notion of extinction at that level, but it's a natural consequence of mapping Equestria to earth rather than earth to Equestria. The nature of the light is important but that's a plot-pull of later discussion.



Have a round of pony images for being a good civilized debater:

80's Twilight--
http://skipsypony.deviantart.com/art/80s-Twilight-325004964

Birth of a Plushie--
http://tan575.deviantart.com/art/Birth-of-a-plushie-commissioned-322427975

Humanized Trixie--
http://pluckyninja.deviantart.com/art/Great-and-Powerful-277759543
This last one might inspire the form if my Trixie character does pick up a human spell.

Quoted to make them load.

EDIT Soras, stay away from religion please.

[asdflove]

You know one of these days you I'm going use these to demonstrate Rule 34p to my great joy.


Thank you. Glad you like it, there's more coming.

[Ravian]

That's not helpful at all. It's telling people who are invested in something that they don't matter. It's what cause such a huge conflagration in the first place.

The rule of D&D don't matter. It's just adult make-believe! But look at te rules debates there? Should they just give up and let it be because it's just a game?


Ok I'm sorry, things were just getting a little too argumentative for my taste for a disscussion over cartoon physics. I just was hoping we could tone it down a bit. :smallfrown:
And I generally am told I obsess far too much over these kinds of things by my brony friends.

[Lix Lorn]

Ok I'm sorry, things were just getting a little too argumentative for my taste for a disscussion over cartoon physics. I just was hoping we could tone it down a bit. :smallfrown:
And I generally am told I obsess far too much over these kinds of things by my brony friends.
Agreed. This is getting vitriolic in here, and I don't want that in ponythread. It's not why I come here.

[SiuiS]

Ok I'm sorry, things were just getting a little too argumentative for my taste for a disscussion over cartoon physics. I just was hoping we could tone it down a bit. :smallfrown:
And I generally am told I obsess far too much over these kinds of things by my brony friends.

That's fine. But just ask us to stop, because it's getting bad. It's te casual dismissal of stuff folks have obviously put time into that's troublesome. It's saying "shut up, you don't matter" instead of "let's please move on". That's all. :smallsmile:

[asdflove]

(Find the rest through here)

http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponified-Redcloak-325351301 Redcloak
MITD-http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/MITD-ponified-325332744

and The one and only Belkar Bitterleaf! http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponified-SEXY-SHOELESS-GOD-OF-WAR-325000257


Out of the blue I show up with art. I love Ponifiying things.
http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Haley-Ponified-324734385
http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponified-Elan-324688093
http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/ElanXHaley-Ponified-Cuddle-324748159

(Sorry That I just linked it, they are far too big to put here as an image, even in a spoiler box)

And now V. But I'm not super happy with this one. Not androgynous enough.
http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponified-Vaarsuvius-324948639
Aaaand Roy's turn
http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponifed-Roy-324959487
Durkon- http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponified-Durkon-324984292
http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Group-Shot-325193295 They be all together! (Find the rest through here)

Stupid Skeleton! Uhhhhggg! http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponified-Xykon-325366154

[otakuryoga]

(Find the rest through here)

Stupid Skeleton! Uhhhhggg! http://asdflove.deviantart.com/art/Ponified-Xykon-325366154

careful..wouldn't want the wrong Lich to think you are referring to him 8)

[Soras Teva Gee]

Everypony who may not remember it let me remind you of the joy that is Book Fortress:

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/163/3/1/book_fortress_part_1_by_mangaka_girl-d536t0d.png (http://mangaka-girl.deviantart.com/art/Book-Fortress-Part-1-307687261)

So I can share with the new part 2:

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/248/4/d/book_fortress_part_2_by_mangaka_girl-d5dlta1.png (http://mangaka-girl.deviantart.com/art/Book-Fortress-part-2-325183609)

Now with 20% more dancing Shining Armor

[thubby]

sweet celestia, i go to classes for a day and you ponies make 5 new pages. 0,o


Clearly, we must approach this problem through the wonders of SCIENCE! First, we'll need to capture a large number of angels...



I'll battle the Lich and his entire fleet if I have to. I'd loose to the combined might but I'd do it. One of them things, heck no I'm runnin the other way.

said singular angel failed, as you'll recall.
*turns to boffinspark*
though he has a point, you'll need some...unconventional help.
*poofs in parchment and blood quill*

[Forum Explorer]

Well we could try actual angelic traits like wheels with eyes. Or six wings with two over the face and two over the "feet"

Better question. If they were to put pony 'angels' into the show what traits would they have in order to be recognized as such.




Silver Lining is a winged pony angel... A winged pegasus pony angel!
Actually I think she's a seraph earth pony but who can say



I think Silver Lining is before my time. Do you have pictures of her?

[Tiki Snakes]

Huh. This is the wrong quote. Ah well.

How ya doin' Tiki? Ya doin' good?
My quotes are elusive, like a fox? Hmm.
I am as good as ever.


Agreed. This is getting vitriolic in here, and I don't want that in ponythread. It's not why I come here.

Ponythread has been getting antsy for a while now. It's happened before, seems to build for a few days/weeks before getting out of hand. I think we're on the far side of the curve at this point though.


Fixed it for you :smalltongue:
Aw, man. Thought for a moment you'd found a ponified version of the theme.

Also, no. I am not a pony. I have pony OC's, but right now I don't even have an active mouthpiece-character, not since the fractal-truck-crash and the death of Ponithid.


I didn't think I was being rude. Nor was I forcing anything upon him, at least as far as I know.

Not that it was rude in your case specifically, taken in isolation. More that it's rude generally to push someone into a corner and question them about the same thing over and over.


Eh. Fine with me, I guess, though ya'll just ignore him whenever he does pop in and ask? Doesn't seem very polite, but I guess I'd rather not screw everyone else over just to be polite to one.

Luka is welcome, and if he fancies talking we talk, but the issue of whether or not he's a brony is well trod ground and there is little left to say on it.


And a rather dark interpretation of the changeling race:
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/5821/prevfallofthechangeling.png

I don't really have time for the many dark-as-possible interpretations of the changeling situation. This particular strip is executed with panash, but the artstyle leaves me cold and the ideas behind it just don't ring true to me.

But I've mentioned my take on the subject before, and it sums up simply enough as "Changelings consume love, but they aren't starving to death because they can also eat food."

Also, Pony Angels? I kind of like the idea of them being long-limbed and multiply winged. (Two pairs of very big wings is plenty though).

[Soras Teva Gee]

said singular angel failed, as you'll recall.
*turns to boffinspark*
though he has a point, you'll need some...unconventional help.
*poofs in parchment and blood quill*

What failure? Learn your classic lit some more. They only put a guard up after, ain't nobody been back since.


Better question. If they were to put pony 'angels' into the show what traits would they have in order to be recognized as such.


I liked Pokonic's answer first few answers Glowing mercurial shapes with wheel like wings and such. I would get it anyways.

Though he's probably also right they'd just cheap out and add some haloed alicorns and call it a day.

Then again not like I'd expect any to show up. More for the whole sorta death would be acknowledged thing then anything else. Nopony seems to want to cross out of certain comfort zones even at the drawing board level with the show judging by the AJ's parents situation.

[thubby]

What failure? Learn your classic lit some more. They only put a guard up after, ain't nobody been back since.

oh duh, im thinking of a different story. same basic idea (fall from grace etc. etc.) except there was a guardian who failed by letting that's story's version of the serpent sneak in.
but, uh, lets move on.

[BlasTech]

And so, as Zecora day begins to close
A little poet attempts some prose
A rhyme to alert his friends about
A little PbP that deserves a shout.

A tale of travel, adventure and sights aplenty
That I hope will be enjoyed by many
So Siuis, Balmas and One Tin Soldier
Check out this link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13843517#post13843517) and come on over.

Please note that there is still one place
That needs to be filled with a friendly face
So come on any who may show interest
And let's begin the Char-gen in earnest.

A final stanza to drive the point home
That I hope you listened to my attempt at poem
So please give a thought to the subject of my ode
And check out Roleplaying is Magic: The Broken Road (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=254824)

[Tvtyrant]

Has this thread become... Vitrified?

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/5370/1783398-portal_blog_4_super.png

I'm aware that Vitriolic and Vitrified have nothing to do with each other.

[Kd7sov]

It seems I've come at the right time
To bring distraction with more rhyme.

It was a simple moment's whim,
And thoughts of success were rather slim.

But quite the crowner, would you say?
To get Zecora on this day?

She was the last one on her shelf,
And now she glows for just myself.

(Though truly, I don't see much light;
I think her glow's charge is too slight.)

[Alabenson]

said singular angel failed, as you'll recall.
*turns to boffinspark*
though he has a point, you'll need some...unconventional help.
*poofs in parchment and blood quill*

Hah, as if I would stoop to accepting help from a supernatural menace such as yourself. Besides, I've already devised a foalproof capture strategy.
All I have to do now is figure out how to rip the Elements of Disharmony out of Discord. And then figure out how to wield them properly without causing unacceptable levels of collateral damage.

[thubby]

Hah, as if I would stoop to accepting help from a supernatural menace such as yourself. Besides, I've already devised a foalproof capture strategy.
All I have to do now is figure out how to rip the Elements of Disharmony out of Discord. And then figure out how to wield them properly without causing unacceptable levels of collateral damage.

:smallannoyed:you ponies are so boring
*turns to leave*
*stops abruptly*
wait, you have "unacceptable levels of collateral damage"?

[Forum Explorer]

I liked Pokonic's answer first few answers Glowing mercurial shapes with wheel like wings and such. I would get it anyways.

Though he's probably also right they'd just cheap out and add some haloed alicorns and call it a day.

Then again not like I'd expect any to show up. More for the whole sorta death would be acknowledged thing then anything else. Nopony seems to want to cross out of certain comfort zones even at the drawing board level with the show judging by the AJ's parents situation.

They did show a funeral once.

[SiuiS]

I think Silver Lining is before my time. Do you have pictures of her?

PhoeKun's avatar? I don't have any I am afraid.


My quotes are elusive, like a fox? Hmm.
I am as good as ever.


Yeah, Raz is pretty slippery...



Ponythread has been getting antsy for a while now. It's happened before, seems to build for a few days/weeks before getting out of hand. I think we're on the far side of the curve at this point though.


Yes. I would like to point out that we only get upset like this when we actually switch topic to pony. Irony~



Also, no. I am not a pony. I have pony OC's, but right now I don't even have an active mouthpiece-character, not since the fractal-truck-crash and the death of Ponithid.

Everyone here is a pony. Even te humans, liches, griffons, hippy griffs, zebras, etc. it's easier that way, and you can blame/thank Random for it.



Also, Pony Angels? I kind of like the idea of them being long-limbed and multiply winged. (Two pairs of very big wings is plenty though).

Oh! I have a picture like that!
Uh. Y'all ain't gonna see it though.

[PhantomFox]

Here's an idea that's been bouncing around for a little bit, related to the EoH question I had earlier. After a series of hard adventures, Princess Celestia feels the Mane 6 should take a break and relax. Some minor friction has been growing between them, and there has been some talk on who is the most important among them. As a condition to earning their vacation, Celestia gives them each other's elements, opposite of what they're used to. Rarity gets Honesty, Dash gets Magic, Fluttershy gets Loyalty, Applejack gets Laughter, Pinkie gets Kindness, and Twilight gets Generosity. The presence of each Element tends to attract situations where that element would be useful, and also provides subtle teaching to each character in what that element really means. Through this excercise, they find a new appreciation of what each talent really means, and that they have some room to grow to overcome their weaknesses.

Thoughts? Also: DISCUSSION TIME! I'm sure you would have a different distribution of the elements, so let's hear it! Give each of the mane 6 the element of harmony that they need to learn the most from, with no overlapping!

GO!

[Tvtyrant]

Thoughts? Also: DISCUSSION TIME! I'm sure you would have a different distribution of the elements, so let's hear it! Give each of the mane 6 the element of harmony that they need to learn the most from, with no overlapping!

GO!
How do you learn lessons from the Element of Magic? It isn't like magic is a character trait..

[thubby]

How do you learn lessons from the Element of Magic? It isn't like magic is a character trait..

the belief in magic is. twilight is quite the skeptic, perhaps she could learn to see the magic in all things, not just friendship.

[PhantomFox]

How do you learn lessons from the Element of Magic? It isn't like magic is a character trait..

*looks at title of the series*
No, seriously. When Twilight gives her speech to Nightmare Moon, she talks about how she discovered friendship when talking about her element. I consider her element about that special friendship between best friends. That forms you into a band-of-brothers. Brotherly Love, or to use the Greek word, Phileo. I think the term Nakama is similar.

[Tvtyrant]

*looks at title of the series*
No, seriously. When Twilight gives her speech to Nightmare Moon, she talks about how she discovered friendship when talking about her element. I consider her element about that special friendship between best friends. That forms you into a band-of-brothers. Brotherly Love, or to use the Greek word, Phileo. I think the term Nakama is similar.

Well then I vote Pinkie Pie not get that one, since she clearly covers it already.

Maybe Rainbow Dash or Applejack.

[Kd7sov]

How do you learn lessons from the Element of Magic? It isn't like magic is a character trait..

Do we need to get commutative again?

It was, amusingly, Ponythread itself that led me to this (http://shazzbaa.tumblr.com/post/17644330485/my-little-pony-the-elements-of-harmony) examination that proposes that the Elements they have are the ones they feel they need to work on. As for my own thoughts...

Twilight Sparkle is actually fairly well balanced, but I think she could learn some Kindness lessons.
Applejack, I think, would have the most to gain from Magic.
Rainbow Dash certainly has trouble with Loyalty. But that's probably cheating, so I'll actually say Generosity.
Rarity, on at least a few occasions, has displayed a preference for handling her own situations without involving others - not exactly a demonstration of Loyalty.
Fluttershy could stand to have more Laughter.
And Pinkie Pie could learn from Honesty. Not to say that she's dishonest, but she's been known to have trouble with external truth (see: "my friends don't like my parties and they don't wanna be my friends any more).

[thubby]

as for the rest:

fluttershy- kindness isn't always easy. sometimes it means doing things that will make others actually dislike you.

rarity: "teach a man to fish" story. yes it's simple and obvious, but done properly its still a good story.

pinkie pie: actual laughter isn't always appropriate, but there is much more profound and meaningful joy you can bring others even in the darkest times.

RD-conflicting loyalties writes itself

AJ-...ya i'm honestly at a loss. "truth is hard" is something we already got. it's half baked, but the best i can think is that she gets hurt emotionally and tries to bottle it up.

[Strategos]

Oops, wrong discussion, I had two things open at once. :smallredface: I'll be back in a few minutes to talk about alternate elements. Sorry about that.

[BlasTech]

Oops, wrong discussion, I had two things open at once. :smallredface: I'll be back in a few minutes to talk about alternate elements. Sorry about that.

Best. Mispost. Ever! :smalltongue:

[Forum Explorer]

PhoeKun's avatar? I don't have any I am afraid.


Oh that's who her avatar was? I thought it was Shimmer. Shimmer is the pony that she is most frequently drawn as right? (Like the FF6 drawings)


Here's an idea that's been bouncing around for a little bit, related to the EoH question I had earlier. After a series of hard adventures, Princess Celestia feels the Mane 6 should take a break and relax. Some minor friction has been growing between them, and there has been some talk on who is the most important among them. As a condition to earning their vacation, Celestia gives them each other's elements, opposite of what they're used to. Rarity gets Honesty, Dash gets Magic, Fluttershy gets Loyalty, Applejack gets Laughter, Pinkie gets Kindness, and Twilight gets Generosity. The presence of each Element tends to attract situations where that element would be useful, and also provides subtle teaching to each character in what that element really means. Through this excercise, they find a new appreciation of what each talent really means, and that they have some room to grow to overcome their weaknesses.

Thoughts? Also: DISCUSSION TIME! I'm sure you would have a different distribution of the elements, so let's hear it! Give each of the mane 6 the element of harmony that they need to learn the most from, with no overlapping!

GO!

I don't think I like that premise. I think because I feel that the Elements just can't be given away/traded like that.

Hmm,

Rarity having Honesty actually works really well.

Fluttershy is very loyal. I think she needs Magic.

Rainbow Dash for Generosity

Applejack for Laughter

Twilight for Kindness

Pinkie Pie for Loyalty

[PhantomFox]

The reasons I distributed them as is:

Dash - Magic: Dash is rather self-reliant, and aloof. She has a strong bond with Fluttershy, but that's about it.
Fluttershy - Loyalty: Fluttershy is quick to give up on things once the going gets rough.
Pinkie - Kindness: Pinkie likes making people happy, but is often rather oblivious to how others are feeling. She could use some lessons in how to give ponies what they need instead of throwing parties as a first resort.
Applejack - Laughter: I've often thought that AJ and Pinkie made good foils as work vs. play. AJ could stand to learn how to be a bit more balanced on the work/play scale.
Rarity - Honesty: Rarity is rather conscientious about her image, and will often make little white lies rather than tarnish her image. See: Sweet and Elite.
Generosity - Twilight: This is the combination that is weak, honestly. I may need to rework it.

[One Tin Soldier]

And so, as Zecora day begins to close
A little poet attempts some prose
A rhyme to alert his friends about
A little PbP that deserves a shout.

A tale of travel, adventure and sights aplenty
That I hope will be enjoyed by many
So Siuis, Balmas and One Tin Soldier
Check out this link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13843517#post13843517) and come on over.

Please note that there is still one place
That needs to be filled with a friendly face
So come on any who may show interest
And let's begin the Char-gen in earnest.

A final stanza to drive the point home
That I hope you listened to my attempt at poem
So please give a thought to the subject of my ode
And check out Roleplaying is Magic: The Broken Road (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=254824)

Posted with a character concept!

[Forum Explorer]

The reasons I distributed them as is:

Dash - Magic: Dash is rather self-reliant, and aloof. She has a strong bond with Fluttershy, but that's about it.
Fluttershy - Loyalty: Fluttershy is quick to give up on things once the going gets rough.
Pinkie - Kindness: Pinkie likes making people happy, but is often rather oblivious to how others are feeling. She could use some lessons in how to give ponies what they need instead of throwing parties as a first resort.
Applejack - Laughter: I've often thought that AJ and Pinkie made good foils as work vs. play. AJ could stand to learn how to be a bit more balanced on the work/play scale.
Rarity - Honesty: Rarity is rather conscientious about her image, and will often make little white lies rather than tarnish her image. See: Sweet and Elite.
Generosity - Twilight: This is the combination that is weak, honestly. I may need to rework it.

Dash: Yeah that makes sense. I like Generosity because Rainbow Dash rarely does things for others at expense to herself.

Fluttershy: I disagree with you here. Kinda. Giving up isn't a lack of loyalty that's something else alltogether. Out of all the Elements besides her own I think Loyalty is what she's best at. I chose Magic because she struggles with forming bonds with other ponies.

Pinkie: Giving her Loyalty was my weak give. Kindness works in a way I hadn't considered.

Applejack: Exactly!

Rarity: Exactly again!

Twilight: I agree that this is a weak give. I chose Kindness for Twilight because while she is willing to help she seems to be impatient and rude. Basically if she was a nurse she would have a horrible bedside manner.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Oh that's who her avatar was? I thought it was Shimmer. Shimmer is the pony that she is most frequently drawn as right? (Like the FF6 drawings)


Well I don't know which is which but Phoe's ponytar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=16319) is different. I guess Shimmer is her MUCH more well known one with the red hair.

Also typing "Phoe pony" into Google netted me this as my second result:

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/190/c/c/pony_parody_comic1_by_kairaven-d3jpo4r.png (http://kairaven.deviantart.com/art/Pony-parody-comic1-214508907)

Ohh ponythread...

[BlasTech]

And so, as Zecora day begins to close
A little poet attempts some prose
A rhyme to alert his friends about
A little PbP that deserves a shout.

A tale of travel, adventure and sights aplenty
That I hope will be enjoyed by many
So Siuis, Balmas and One Tin Soldier
Check out this link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13843517#post13843517) and come on over.

Please note that there is still one place
That needs to be filled with a friendly face
So come on any who may show interest
And let's begin the Char-gen in earnest.

A final stanza to drive the point home
That I hope you listened to my attempt at poem
So please give a thought to the subject of my ode
And check out Roleplaying is Magic: The Broken Road (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=254824)


Posted with a character concept!

Thanks OTS! :smallbiggrin:

Is there anyone else here who might be interested? As the poem suggests, I'm still trying to fill the last spot.

[Strategos]

Best. Mispost. Ever! :smalltongue:

Well, it was better than posting the MLP discussion in a Yu-Gi-Oh game at least. :smalltongue:


Here's an idea that's been bouncing around for a little bit, related to the EoH question I had earlier. After a series of hard adventures, Princess Celestia feels the Mane 6 should take a break and relax. Some minor friction has been growing between them, and there has been some talk on who is the most important among them. As a condition to earning their vacation, Celestia gives them each other's elements, opposite of what they're used to. Rarity gets Honesty, Dash gets Magic, Fluttershy gets Loyalty, Applejack gets Laughter, Pinkie gets Kindness, and Twilight gets Generosity. The presence of each Element tends to attract situations where that element would be useful, and also provides subtle teaching to each character in what that element really means. Through this excercise, they find a new appreciation of what each talent really means, and that they have some room to grow to overcome their weaknesses.

Thoughts? Also: DISCUSSION TIME! I'm sure you would have a different distribution of the elements, so let's hear it! Give each of the mane 6 the element of harmony that they need to learn the most from, with no overlapping!

GO!

Personally, I think that Pinkie Pie could use the lesson on Loyalty. Loyalty is a two way street, you will be loyal to a person, a group of people or a cause and you know they'd do the same thing for you. Pinkie would never abandon her friends, but as we saw in 'Party of One' she was awfully quick to assume that they would abandon her.

For Fluttershy, she would receive the element of Laughter. Not only because one should 'Giggle at the Ghosties' and Fluttershy at times is afraid of her own shadow. But she doesn't do well in large groups would have a hard time socialising with anyone new. Something that she could really learn to do better with and the element could really help with that.

Applejack is really hard working, and is ready, willing and able to do almost anything that is asked of her. However, she often sees these things as a duty as in 'The Last Roundup,' where she was ashamed that she didn't come first in any event. Therein lies her problem. She sees things as tasks, things that she should be good at without taking time to appreciate things the way they are, or just enjoy something as it is. She could use the element of Magic to see the wonder that is within everything.

Rarity's the easiest one for me to place their alternate element. Honesty. It's clearly her weakest area. Often things work well for her in the end, but would have been resolved a lot quicker if she'd just been honest from the get go. Just watch 'Sweet and Elite,' there are about three or four places where if she just told everypony the truth there wouldn't have been any conlfict in the episode.

Twilight Sparkle, princesses student and former recluse, could probably stand to take a lesson from the Element of Kindness. When your soloution to your problem of not having a problem to report to Celestia is to make three friends fight over your old doll, you need to take a step back and examine the situation. Also, she tends to lecture a bit, which could really lead to some hurt feelings if the other pony had severely thin skin or didn't feel like they did something wrong.

I don't feel I have a good grasp of Rainbow Dash's character, so it's lucky that I arrived to her by the process of elimination :smalltongue:. But really, I think she does need the element of Generosity the most. It's been shown a few times that Dash likes doing things because of the attention she'll receive when she does it, like when she pushed over the statue in 'Best Night Ever.' It would be good for her to learn to do things without expecting them, preferably without it being slammed down her throat. **glares at 'The Mysterious Mare Do Well'**

[Merellis]

A final stanza to drive the point home
That I hope you listened to my attempt at poem
So please give a thought to the subject of my ode
And check out Roleplaying is Magic: The Broken Road (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=254824)
Looks like a ton of fun. Guess I'll follow and watch.