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Raiki
2012-09-03, 07:14 PM
Hey all,

I'm working on a race list for an upcoming game I'm going to be running, a low-power Wild West setting where I want all available races to be ECL +0.

Two races that I want to include for thematic reasons are the Half-Giant and the Neogi, but the former has a +1 level adjustment, and the latter has 5 racial hit dice and a LA of +3. I've been trying to pare them down to be acceptable LA+0 races, but I want the community's opinions on how I'm doing.

Half Giant (Original stats are here. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicRaces.htm#halfGiants))
+2 Str, -2 Dex, -2 Wis
Humanoid (Giant)
Medium size
30' move speed
Lowlight Vision
Powerful Build (Count as Large size whenever beneficial)
Automatic Languages: Common

Neogi (I can't post their original stats, as they're proprietary content.)
+2 Int, -4 Str
Abberation type
Small size
20' land speed, 20' climb speed
Darkvision 30'
+4 racial bonus to bluff and climb
Command Umber Hulk: Functionss as automatic Charm Monster on any Umber Hulk specially raised as a Neogi slave. This ability only works on one Umber Hulk at a time, if it is used on a second influence over the first is lost. This ability may only be used once on any given Umber Hulk in a 24 hour period, but the effects last as long as the target is within line of sight.


So what do you guys think?

Of special note is the fact that the campaign will have no traditional casters (as I'm using a completely homebrewed class list), so the giant/abberation types won't really give them the usual immunity to X Person spells (since they won't really exist), and the Neogi's +2 Int and small size won't have Wizards pawing at the door.

So any questions, answers, silly comments or nasty remarks?

~R~

vasharanpaladin
2012-09-03, 08:19 PM
1) LA is the dumbest possible thing Wootsie's ever done, just ignore it. A creature with no racial HD and LA+1 is closer to a human in power than any nonhuman LA+0 race.

2) Several higher-powered races have been busted down to LA+0 via racial classes. Drow can be found in Drow of the Underdark, the psionic races can be found in Complete Psionic, others can be found in the various Races supplements. Again, ignore LA because it's useless as a balancing mechanism, and just spread the neogi's abilities as written out over five levels, plus base features. :smallbiggrin:

Raiki
2012-09-03, 09:22 PM
I've actually never been a fan of racial classes. Also, an important part of this game is playtesting the new classes I'm building, hence the reason that I wanted all races to be LA +0. So for this particular game, using racial classes is not only an idea I dislike, but goes against one of the purposes of the game.

(And speaking of my homebrewed classes, the first will be ready to hit the forums to be PEACHed in a week or so. :smallbiggrin:)


Anyone have any other thoughts on the races?


~R~

Madara
2012-09-03, 10:03 PM
Usually Powerful Build is the reason that such a race gets LA +1. At the very least, I like to switch LA to HD, so no one starts out at level 12 with 16hp. :smalltongue:

Giant Type+ Powerful Build is pushing a Low LA +1

I suggest dropping powerful build for a bonus on grapple checks, and against bull rush attempts. That would keep it at LA 0, and you could probably add back naturally psionic. The only thing that makes them good would be using larger weapons.

ericgrau
2012-09-03, 10:19 PM
It doesn't seem like you removed anything significant from half giant. Powerful build plus 2 +2s in synergistic scores tends to be too much for LA 0, and a penalty to a dump stat does not fix this. I'd take both benefits down a peg.

The neogi seem fine. The climb speed can be ghetto flight for ranged but without traditional casters they don't have much else going for them.

Raiki
2012-09-03, 10:28 PM
I'm actually rather attached to Powerful Build in this case. Do you guys think it would be enough to drop the +2 to Con and the -2 to Dex and change type to Humanoid (Giant)?

Having the giant subtype would still let them qualify for things that require giant blood (of which there may be...what, 2 things?), but not give them immunity to X Person.

Thoughts?

~R~

havocfett
2012-09-04, 01:22 AM
Drop the Con buff, Str +2, Dex -2, Wis -2, and it shouldn't be too bad. Powerful Build is very strong though, even this is be pushing it.

Raiki
2012-09-04, 09:13 AM
Okay, as per suggestions I've changed the Half-Giant's type to Humanoid (Giant) and removed the +2 to Constitution. Do we have a consensus that this is now tolerably within LA+0 territory?


~R~

Deepbluediver
2012-09-04, 10:54 AM
I'm not familiar with the Neogi, but it seems odd to have a medium-sized "giant", even with the Powerful Build feat.

One thing that I would love to see, for all races (not just those with LA) is a system that continued to give them increasing power or benefits as they leveld up. For example (and this is just off the top of my head) a human would gain a bonus feat every few levels, instead of just at 1st.

If you worked out something like this, you could start a race at LA +0 when it has 1 level in a PC class, and then slowly graft on extra abilities as they level up. I admit that the race might not feel that much different at level 1, but hopefully the races would feel more different the more you played (sort of like classes) instead of racial features getting eclipsed.
For something like the giant, you could explain that the level 1 version is an adolescent, and for every few class levels he attains, he gains a +1 bonus to Str or gaining 6 inches of height and 50 lbs. of muscle, eventually becoming large or huge; this represents his growth into adulthood.

Raiki
2012-09-04, 11:43 AM
Well even in its normal LA+1 version, the Half-Giant is still mediums size with Powerful Build. He is only half a giant, after all.

And I've had the same idea as you have for races, it's one of the main reasons I love bloodlines so much. However, for the game that I'm 'brewing all of this for, it would just add another layer of work for me to do, because I would have to make up racial progressions for every race I'm including.

Unfortunately, the eventual payout isn't worth the upfront work in this situation. Maybe another day. :smallsmile:

Unless anyone has anything else to say about the current stats for the Half-Giant or Neogi, I'm going to call this particular 'brew finished and move on to finishing up the classes and campaign setting (Which I'm tentatively titling Dry Heat).

~R~