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View Full Version : Asura (Asura's Wrath) vs. Superman



Leliel
2012-09-05, 10:39 PM
So, for undefined reasons-probably involving Lex Luthor-our favorite ALWAYS ANGRY, ALL THE TIME divinity-hating demigod finds himself squaring off against the Ultimate Superhero (Unless You Count Batman), in a large, unpopulated area (because, let's face it, neither combatant is exactly the most callous person in fiction).

Also, I'm thinking the DCAU version of Supes. The battle is one when a combatant is incapacitated, because both are well-known for surviving death.

So, superhuman might and variable powers version superhuman will and magic powered by anger and frustration. Who wins?

Xefas
2012-09-05, 11:24 PM
Not that anything meaningful will come from a discussion involving, Superman, the Blight of All Discourse, but I feel like Asura is a lesser known character, and thus I'm compelled to point out a general baseline for those who actually want to participate in the cyclical morass that is to come.

Asura is an immortal dude with arms made of unobtainium, the durability of which is largely fluid with the needs of the plot (and scaling up with his current form - see below).

Mentally, he's not particularly intelligent. He's a kind of rage-incarnate and, given the smallest sleight, will dispense with any pretense at reason or strategy. He is not, however, all that malicious or evil - more like a force of nature. A tornado that annihilates everything in its path for tenuous justifications. Things like pain or remorse are beyond him. At one point, he shattered his arms to splinters murdering a god. When another god showed up, he proceeded to then fight that god using his feet and teeth. Pain, remorse, reason; they don't mean anything for him.

At his lowest tier of power, he's capable of destruction on a local scale, punching through buildings, surviving the equivalent of artillery shells and similar.

Once his anger starts building up, he attains Vajra Asura form, growing four additional arms, and gaining planet-cracking strength and planet-cracker-resistant endurance. In this form, he punches through a deity who is larger than the planet he is standing on.

After that anger has been tempered by fuzzy wuzzies, he can enter Mantra Asura form, in which he is capable of going toe-to-toe with the incarnation of all impurity and madness in... the cosmos? Maybe not that far-reaching. Lets say something half a peg down from a Chaos God? That's my best guess.

And, finally, his ultimate form is that of Asura the Destructor, where he becomes planet-sized, and is capable of shattering planets and stars with his face as a triviality. Solar systems are consumed in the preamble of his fight with Chakravartin, who seems to be somewhere between a Chaos God and Yahweh in terms of fighting power (that's kind of a wide breadth, I know, but it's not like they give us great benchmarks). A few-minute-long fight very likely left the galaxy they were in a smoldering ruin.

In addition to raw strength and durability, Asura is also capable of generating energy blasts that are, by some definitions, magic. Whether that translates into DC-Universe magic, I don't know, but they seem to keep pace with his fists in terms of strength. They go from battleship-exploding at the low end, to planet-incinerating at the high end. (edit: And these aren't Dragonball-Z energy blasts. We're talking, one punch - one energy blast. A dozen planets melted into slag in the span of a moment.)

This is what he looks like, if you care:
http://i.imgur.com/J7zsI.jpg

I don't have an opinion on who would win.

MLai
2012-09-05, 11:52 PM
Sounds like a job for Silver Age Superman.

Emperor Ing
2012-09-06, 12:50 AM
I dunno if even Golden Age Supes can stand up to someone who, at the height of his power, was an actual honest-to-goodness God.

kpenguin
2012-09-06, 12:58 AM
...probably not, since Golden Age Supes wasn't as strong as Silver Age supes.

DCAU Supes probably gets flattened. Silver Age Supes is all but omnipotent at his height. Grant Morrison Supes wins if it makes for a good story, because ultimate story hero man powers.

Actually.

The winner is always whatever the writer thinks is a better story. Between any fictional character. I propose that any further versus threads shall be settled with fanfic contests.

Tiki Snakes
2012-09-06, 01:03 AM
...probably not, since Golden Age Supes wasn't as strong as Silver Age supes.

DCAU Supes probably gets flattened. Silver Age Supes is all but omnipotent at his height. Grant Morrison Supes wins if it makes for a good story, because ultimate story hero man powers.

Actually.

The winner is always whatever the writer thinks is a better story. Between any fictional character. I propose that any further versus threads shall be settled with fanfic contests.

Fanfic contests and Art-fights, perhaps?

kpenguin
2012-09-06, 01:09 AM
This is the best idea. Whoever makes the best fanfic/art wins. We get entries and poll the masses. Or perhaps get a panel of impartial judges, preferably those who don't feel strongly about either party in the versus.

Leliel
2012-09-06, 08:28 AM
Mentally, he's not particularly intelligent. He's a kind of rage-incarnate and, given the smallest sleight, will dispense with any pretense at reason or strategy. He is not, however, all that malicious or evil - more like a force of nature. A tornado that annihilates everything in its path for tenuous justifications. Things like pain or remorse are beyond him. At one point, he shattered his arms to splinters murdering a god. When another god showed up, he proceeded to then fight that god using his feet and teeth. Pain, remorse, reason; they don't mean anything for him.

Um, slight dispute here. Asura is actually quite capable of regret, he just doesn't see much need for it over the course of the game. In fact, he actually is aware of his status as "force of nature", and it actually frightens him a bit-before the start of the game, he used to be capable of controlling his rage a tad.

He's actually pretty nice outside of combat, if a bit rude and uncouth. In fact, that niceness is why he can be an endless font of hatred and fury-more than anything else, he despises unnecessary pain or harming civilians, to the point where, in the case his rage overcomes what rational mind he has and he transforms into the demonic Wrath Asura, he will avoid hurting noncombatants. Really, the problem with that form is that his magic begins to roast him alive, meaning he's living on borrowed time unless someone snaps him out of it.

It's for this reason I see a major weakness when fighting Supes-there really is that much about the Spandex Boy Scout to get angry about, meaning he can't access his higher powers. His power literally waxes and wanes with his rage.

Tavar
2012-09-06, 03:44 PM
Mentally, he's not particularly intelligent. He's a kind of rage-incarnate and, given the smallest sleight, will dispense with any pretense at reason or strategy. He is not, however, all that malicious or evil - more like a force of nature. A tornado that annihilates everything in its path for tenuous justifications. Things like pain or remorse are beyond him. At one point, he shattered his arms to splinters murdering a god. When another god showed up, he proceeded to then fight that god using his feet and teeth. Pain, remorse, reason; they don't mean anything for him.


Yeah, as long as those small slights are, like, framing him for the murder of the emperor of the world, killing his wife, kidnapping his daughter before putting her through pain for centuries, and then threatening(and later, killing) his surrogate daughter. Never mind harvesting the souls of trillions of beings, or orchestrating this all from behind the scenes.

You know, the small stuff.:smallconfused:

Scowling Dragon
2012-09-06, 04:51 PM
Uh....Supes says yo to Asura..They chill for a bit...And go to taco bell? So Taco bell wins I guess.

Jade Dragon
2012-09-06, 04:55 PM
Um, slight dispute here. Asura is actually quite capable of regret, he just doesn't see much need for it over the course of the game. In fact, he actually is aware of his status as "force of nature", and it actually frightens him a bit-before the start of the game, he used to be capable of controlling his rage a tad.

He's actually pretty nice outside of combat, if a bit rude and uncouth. In fact, that niceness is why he can be an endless font of hatred and fury-more than anything else, he despises unnecessary pain or harming civilians, to the point where, in the case his rage overcomes what rational mind he has and he transforms into the demonic Wrath Asura, he will avoid hurting noncombatants. Really, the problem with that form is that his magic begins to roast him alive, meaning he's living on borrowed time unless someone snaps him out of it.


Yeah, as long as those small slights are, like, framing him for the murder of the emperor of the world, killing his wife, kidnapping his daughter before putting her through pain for centuries, and then threatening(and later, killing) his surrogate daughter. Never mind harvesting the souls of trillions of beings, or orchestrating this all from behind the scenes.

You know, the small stuff.:smallconfused:
Yeah, Xefas' evaluation is pretty far off, IMO.

Asura is an immortal dude with arms made of unobtainium, the durability of which is largely fluid with the needs of the plot (and scaling up with his current form - see below).
His gauntlets are made of Orichalcum.*

*yes, I know they're technically not. But let's face it, they are.

Mentally, he's not particularly intelligent. He's a kind of rage-incarnate and, given the smallest sleight, will dispense with any pretense at reason or strategy. He is not, however, all that malicious or evil - more like a force of nature. A tornado that annihilates everything in its path for tenuous justifications. Things like pain or remorse are beyond him. At one point, he shattered his arms to splinters murdering a god. When another god showed up, he proceeded to then fight that god using his feet and teeth. Pain, remorse, reason; they don't mean anything for him.
Um... Asura will pretty much avoid harming mortals.

In addition, his assault wasn't exactly for small slights. When he had amnesia, his response to Wyzen rambling about nonsense was to punch him in the face. Wyzen was the one who made things serious, though.

Reomorse is not beyond him. You know what provoked him to wrath form and made him destroy the Shinkoku fleet, and more specifically, the goddess with them? The fact that he couldn't protect one mortal from his uncaring, arrogant cousins.

At his lowest tier of power, he's capable of destruction on a local scale, punching through buildings, surviving the equivalent of artillery shells and similar.

Once his anger starts building up, he attains Vajra Asura form, growing four additional arms, and gaining planet-cracking strength and planet-cracker-resistant endurance. In this form, he punches through a deity who is larger than the planet he is standing on.
Actually, according to the wiki Asura has two Vajra forms.

Vajra Asura is so much a part of him that he's really only not in this form when he's been killed again, or was worn down by Chakravartin. In this form, he goes from wearing Orichalcum unobtainium gauntlets to his arms being made out of the stuff.

Six-Armed Vajra Asura is the six-armed form.

Of course, the wiki might be wrong, and it might just be that the demigods, with their biomechanical bodies, are able to turn parts of their body into Orichalcum unobtainium with intense training or fighting a lot with a particular limb (Asura's arms and hands, Augus' hands, Yasha's fingers).

After that anger has been tempered by fuzzy wuzzies, he can enter Mantra Asura form, in which he is capable of going toe-to-toe with the incarnation of all impurity and madness in... the cosmos? Maybe not that far-reaching. Lets say something half a peg down from a Chaos God? That's my best guess.
Well, Yasha was with him.

And, finally, his ultimate form is that of Asura the Destructor, where he becomes planet-sized, and is capable of shattering planets and stars with his face as a triviality. Solar systems are consumed in the preamble of his fight with Chakravartin, who seems to be somewhere between a Chaos God and Yahweh in terms of fighting power (that's kind of a wide breadth, I know, but it's not like they give us great benchmarks). A few-minute-long fight very likely left the galaxy they were in a smoldering ruin.
...You did see the fourth part and aren't just misinformed, right? Asura's fight with The Creator had two parts.

A) Destructor form. This part was one of the shooter segments. Between the earlier doomsday fire beam that Asura blocked from destroying the whole Galaxy (I actually think Destructor form is many times larger than planets, since when Asura looked down at Gaea, he was either really far away or it was about the size of his head), and any of the giant fireballs that Asura let by, many stars and planets were destroyed. The galaxy as a whole, however, wasn't, nor was Gaea, as demonstrated after the fight.

B) Event horizon. At this point, Asura isn't even in the galaxy any more, he's in the giant, uncanny dimension where Chakravartin crafts galaxies eon after eon. Asura is now Six-Armed Mantra Asura. In the first portion of this part, Asura gets worn down by Chakravartin to his most basic form, a red guy with two Orichalcum unobtainium gauntlets. Then, Asura manages to get back. Even when Chakravartin tries to use oblivion's power to destroy Asura, Asura still managed to eventually beat him down.

Spoilers (non-spoiler version, it confirms that Gaea was practically unharmed).
When their fight ends, Asura kills Chakravartin, the source of all Essence Mantra, knowing full well that as a being made of Essence Mantra, he will die. He knows that his daughter will live (for some weird reason that probably involves Durga not being made of Mantra either, despite being Yasha's sister, or maybe just the eight guardian generals being special), and that is the only reason he is willing to die.

Then Mithra ends up flying back to Gaea on the conflagration of Essence Mantra. So Gaea was definitely not destroyed. And because of the scene after the credits, the planet wasn't scoured either, as mortals are still around.

In addition to raw strength and durability, Asura is also capable of generating energy blasts that are, by some definitions, magic. Whether that translates into DC-Universe magic, I don't know, but they seem to keep pace with his fists in terms of strength. They go from battleship-exploding at the low end, to planet-incinerating at the high end. (edit: And these aren't Dragonball-Z energy blasts. We're talking, one punch - one energy blast. A dozen planets melted into slag in the span of a moment.)

It took him hundreds of energy blasts plus playing catch with missiles to bring down the one battleship after Asura returned from hanging onto one of the pillars in between Gaea and Naraka for some 20,000 years while unconscious.

In Six-Armed Wrath Form, his blasts are still unable to destroy battleships in a few hits. He can, however, do a charge-up shot in the burst mode cutscenes that creates a giant explosion that can destroy every ship in the radius.

As the Destructor, however, his blasts are probably as powerful as comets, but without temperature fallout afterwards.

EDIT: @Scowling Dragon: I think they would go out for burgers at the local diner.

Water_Bear
2012-09-06, 07:59 PM
Setting anyone against Superman is just unfair, but this guy seems stronger than Doomsday so it's plausible.

But if we're taking "super-mode" type alternate-forms into account here, can Superman fly into the sun and supercharge himself like in All-Star Superman? That would put even the weakest incarnations of the character at the upper edges of the Silver Age power levels, so he ought to be able to at least fight on equal footing with Mantra Asura. And that's assuming he's significantly tougher than Darksied, who even DCAU Superman can fight on more-or-less even footing already.

So yeah, my vote is for either Superman winning or them beating each other to death (/unconsciousness). Still a much fairer fight for Superman than I've seen in a while; usually he just wins outright.

Jade Dragon
2012-09-06, 08:28 PM
Setting anyone against Superman is just unfair, but this guy seems stronger than Doomsday so it's plausible.

But if we're taking "super-mode" type alternate-forms into account here, can Superman fly into the sun and supercharge himself like in All-Star Superman? That would put even the weakest incarnations of the character at the upper edges of the Silver Age power levels, so he ought to be able to at least fight on equal footing with Mantra Asura. And that's assuming he's significantly tougher than Darksied, who even DCAU Superman can fight on more-or-less even footing already.

So yeah, my vote is for either Superman winning or them beating each other to death (/unconsciousness). Still a much fairer fight for Superman than I've seen in a while; usually he just wins outright.

It really depends on if Asura has the Mantra Reactor. If he doesn't, Superman wins. Without the Mantra Reactor, he killed a world-destroying monster, but had the help of someone who was roughly equal in terms of power, as well as his daughter praying to him (and when his daughter prays, it results in a good power boost). If he does have the Mantra Reactor, then he killed the creator deity with no help from others.

TechnOkami
2012-09-06, 08:31 PM
This is the best idea. Whoever makes the best fanfic/art wins. We get entries and poll the masses. Or perhaps get a panel of impartial judges, preferably those who don't feel strongly about either party in the versus.

I like this plan.

Jade Dragon
2012-09-06, 08:37 PM
I like this plan.

Unfortunately, it pretty much cuts out anyone who's watched played watched Asura's Wrath and hasn't read a lot of Superman (or any Superman).

Not the other way around, though, because YouTube. I like Arekkz's playthrough for the first three parts (then click on one of the true ending parts in the Related section on Episode 18), and the RajmanHDGaming's for Part 4.