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Smart_alec
2012-09-13, 06:47 AM
Exactly what it say's on the tin I'm afraid. Though I can offer context.

I'm running an extremely low technology/ magic saturated campaign (the player's are a third, fourth and a fifth generation settlers on a new continent) that is very much based off Australia and the British colonial spread. As such there wasn't much in the way of metallurgy before the new people doing the run around bought the various technological parts with them. So there is very little gold around. (Treasure packets are generally awarded in magic items with the equivalent GP value. It work's well thus far.)

I've managed to sidestep the issue thus far but I intend to have an angry hunting dragon as the antagonist a couple of sessions down the line but without the whole hoarding thing and with no big population centres to lord over I've got no idea what the Dragons do without those as their defining character traits.

So does anybody have any suggestions?

HunterOfJello
2012-09-13, 06:53 AM
1. Enslave humans to go mine some gold for them to sit on.

2. Sit on Silver.

3. Sit on lots of sparkly gemstones.

4. Invent a philosopher's stone, then enslave humans to go mine lots of lead.

Yora
2012-09-13, 06:53 AM
You could substitute treasures with other trophies. Like skulls of large monsters or the weapons and armor of warriors the dragon defeated.

Eldan
2012-09-13, 06:56 AM
Enslave nomadic tribes and force them to come to him once a year with a tribute in human sacrifice?

Or gemstones. Opals come from Australia and they are, IIRC, scales of the rainbow serpent. That should provide perfect fodder for making them a magical material.

nedz
2012-09-13, 07:40 AM
Maybe he's just a bit moody, but when he's not in a rampaging frame of mind he likes to relax with a good book. So he has a huge library.

BUT, this may not work in your setting. Perhaps he just has a lot of aboriginal art ?

Morph Bark
2012-09-13, 07:42 AM
Fifth-generation? Wouldn't that mean at the very least 60 years have passed? (Likely more in the direction of 100-125 years? The 60 year number is based off the first generation immediately having kids upon arrival and those kids and every generation afterwards having kids at age 15.)

DigoDragon
2012-09-13, 07:59 AM
Hoard Technology?

If the tech is low due to a lack of useable metals, then it could stand to reason a dragon will control the few metal resources locally. Said dragon could also be raiding ships that are bringing in the technology from across the sea.
This would keep the locals dependant on magic, which would make the dragon's Dispel and AMF spells much more dangerous.

Smart_alec
2012-09-13, 08:07 AM
1. Enslave humans to go mine some gold for them to sit on.

2. Sit on Silver.

3. Sit on lots of sparkly gemstones.

4. Invent a philosopher's stone, then enslave humans to go mine lots of lead.


Or gemstones. Opals come from Australia and they are, IIRC, scales of the rainbow serpent. That should provide perfect fodder for making them a magical material.
I phrased this poorly. It's not just gold. It's everything associated with material wealth. There simply hasn't been enough time for the infer-structure to produce great amounts of any rare item and core monetisation to have developed.


Enslave nomadic tribes and force them to come to him once a year with a tribute in human sacrifice?


You could substitute treasures with other trophies. Like skulls of large monsters or the weapons and armor of warriors the dragon defeated.
These I actually really like. They're flavorful, pay lip-service to the whole racial trait's thing that fantasy and sci-fi authors love so much and they provide a vastly different visual aesthetic.

Thanking you so much.


Fifth-generation? Wouldn't that mean at the very least 60 years have passed? (Likely more in the direction of 100-125 years? The 60 year number is based off the first generation immediately having kids upon arrival and those kids and every generation afterwards having kids at age 15.)
It's been about ten years since non-convicts have been arriving and almost twenty for the people who went their as prisoners. (Who were not in fact sent there intentionally. A small armada of ships carrying prisoners of war got blown off course and set up shop there due to lack of supplies and an incident with a Kraken.)

A couple of jail-breaks later and you've got enough seeding to justify every non-native species that the players want to be and you've got the building blocks for a couple of small port towns.

The fifth generation member of the party is a Goblin and there are no humans in this setting.

Yet. I've got plans for an inter-planer invasion force once they hit epic level. She's fully grown and about five years old (and will live to about 15.)

hymer
2012-09-13, 08:20 AM
Just some random thoughts:
Maybe there used to be a highly evolved culture in the area, but the dragons came and took all the gold. With many population centres decimated and no legal tender, the culture soon vanished, but the dragons are still there, and they've had hundreds or thousands of years to gather up all the remaining gold - and the local people have an unexplained taboo against worked gold and silver. They don't remember why it brings destruction any more, though.

Clawhound
2012-09-13, 08:36 AM
All dragons love SOMETHING, but that can be anything, can't it? Dragons can like books, totem poles, statues, or whatever. There's really no end to bling out there.

Smart_alec
2012-09-13, 08:52 AM
Sorry Nedz. I missed you in the first response.

Hymer, DigoDragon and Nedz, good ideas all but I don't think that they'll be appropriate for the setting.

Thank you as well though.

Tyndmyr
2012-09-13, 08:53 AM
Wander around with a strange feeling that something is missing from his life.

ZeroNumerous
2012-09-13, 08:58 AM
After discussing with a friend, I realized that dragons are basically giant scaled magpies.

So, with that in mind. They just go find other shiny things to lay on.

Dazdya
2012-09-13, 09:49 AM
I was reminded of Easter island, and I could see a dragon demanding the natives to build them enormous statues of guys with funny hats, until the last trees are gone. Just a thouht, though.

Anxe
2012-09-13, 10:31 AM
BONES! The Dragon collects bones. Everything he has ever killed has its skeleton proudly displayed in a giant pile. He sits upon his Bone Hoard in his lair, only exiting when he notices that he is missing a particular type of bone. A fibia that is 23.2cm long perhaps? He'll go find one and add it to his collection.

Mark Hall
2012-09-13, 10:52 AM
I like the bone and statues ideas... but also consider that dragons, themselves, may not be native. Assuming you're talking actual Australia (from a geographical reference standpoint), what if dragons come from Vietnam, Thailand, or even all the way from the Americas? Or that they hitched a ride from "England" to find more open areas (with fewer competing dragons)? They would be younger, at first, and wanting to build up riches... but there's no riches to build up. And there's hostile "alien" monsters who are already there.

1337 b4k4
2012-09-13, 11:53 AM
Another thing to bear in mind is that over the centuries, many more things than just coins and technology have been signs of wealth. Salt, spices, alcohol, tea, fresh water and so on. Heck, any natural resource that is centrally located and excludable could serve as a dragon's hoard.

Tenno Seremel
2012-09-13, 11:56 AM
Nothing. They do not exist until the land feels it needs to punish human infidels who dared to live on it.

Draconi Redfir
2012-09-13, 12:07 PM
I always thought dragons unable or incapable of collecting gold and other shiny and rare things might take an interest in rocks, specifically the round kind often found on the bottom of rivers and like, the more spherical the better, morso if the Rocks have an interesting colour.

Further the Rocks have a practical use as well, with a little fire breath you can heat them up and make a nice warm bed for yourself, or an easy way to keep your eggs warm for a long period of time.

Reltzik
2012-09-13, 02:30 PM
Hoard magic items.

Gemstones (already mentioned.)

Artwork.

Shiny shells, or whatever the local currency is.

A harem of sacrificial virgins.

Get fundamentally pissed off and kill everything.

There was a 2nd edition setting focusing on PC dragons, where the dragons needed to grow their hoards in order to advance an age category. Maybe dragons just can't get to their true size.

The Glyphstone
2012-09-13, 02:38 PM
After discussing with a friend, I realized that dragons are basically giant scaled magpies.

So, with that in mind. They just go find other shiny things to lay on.

Basically this. If there's no currency or precious metals/gems yet, then that means it's still in a barter or subsistence economy, so anything 'useful' becomes valuable. If dragons simply have a compulsion to accumulate wealth, it could be a powerful rancher with vast herds of sheep/cattle (though that means they get a little poorer every time they eat dinner), or guard a vast forest filled with prime timber, or something similar.

snoopy13a
2012-09-13, 02:42 PM
A dragon's gotta eat. Maybe dragons think the player characters are yummy.

Analytica
2012-09-13, 03:01 PM
I tend to think of dragon greed as being about things others perceive as valuable. Gold is intrinsically worthless to a dragon since it does not purchase anything from anyone. However, all the humans envy the dragon if it has gold, because they would purchase things for gold if they had it. From this perspective, the dragon hoards whatever humans and other creatures crave. In this case, that might be territory - the dragon protects good pasturages, fertile lands or water sources by killing or driving away all others, not because it uses these resources but so that it will have them while others will crave them. The same could go for livestock, slaves or anything else. Whatever gives a mortal status to possess, the dragon will hoard.

Urpriest
2012-09-13, 03:33 PM
Lots of mythological monsters hoard livestock, so I'd go with that first. Timber would be a bit more odd, but Humbaba sets vague precedent.

toapat
2012-09-13, 06:06 PM
this seems like the kind of perfect situation for the SpellHoard, from Dragon 313

Doorhandle
2012-09-16, 04:19 AM
BONES! The Dragon collects bones. Everything he has ever killed has its skeleton proudly displayed in a giant pile. He sits upon his Bone Hoard in his lair, only exiting when he notices that he is missing a particular type of bone. A fibia that is 23.2cm long perhaps? He'll go find one and add it to his collection.

I highly recommend this as it's METAL AS HELL. (tm)


Or gemstones. Opals come from Australia and they are, IIRC, scales of the rainbow serpent. That should provide perfect fodder for making them a magical material.

Also, this would be excellent.

Nothing says that the dragon couldn't mine out mineral wealth by itself: particularly if it's a burrowing type. even if it isn't, they're a 5 ton+ engine of destruction and could use their breath-weapon to do the heavy lifting/digging, to say nothing of helpful spells (ant-haul comes to mind.)


I tend to think of dragon greed as being about things others perceive as valuable. Gold is intrinsically worthless to a dragon since it does not purchase anything from anyone. However, all the humans envy the dragon if it has gold, because they would purchase things for gold if they had it. From this perspective, the dragon hoards whatever humans and other creatures crave. In this case, that might be territory - the dragon protects good pasturages, fertile lands or water sources by killing or driving away all others, not because it uses these resources but so that it will have them while others will crave them. The same could go for livestock, slaves or anything else. Whatever gives a mortal status to possess, the dragon will hoard.

Another cool idea.
Having it hoard water would be particularly appropriate if it's one of the more aquatic dragons: perhaps lording over a massive crater-lake, and toying with interlopers who are dying of thirst.

Kitten Champion
2012-09-16, 05:21 AM
If you've got room in your setting for an arid desert your characters could be induced to enter, taking an innocent drink from an oasis or underground spring which the dragon has settled upon as its own... earning some wrath.

Or perhaps a local settlement is being built on a dragon's bone yard? Because the decaying remains leave the soil fertile. Somehow the PCs get involved in a dispute between an old dragon who's come there to die and those seen as defilers of its sacred land.

Starshade
2012-09-16, 06:50 AM
Introduce a string of isles to the north (polynesian ish), where natives use seashells as coins, and let the dragons hoard pretty shells. Along with magical masks, strange idols, moai's and whatever they can manage to rob.

Psyren
2012-09-17, 02:04 PM
They mope.

Anyway, IIRC Draconomicon talks about alternate hordes, such as rare books or galleries of valuable artwork. I could imagine other options like an exotic arboretum or manufactory of costly perfumes etc.

Arutema
2012-09-17, 03:00 PM
They mope.

Anyway, IIRC Draconomicon talks about alternate hordes, such as rare books or galleries of valuable artwork. I could imagine other options like an exotic arboretum or manufactory of costly perfumes etc.


Mixing this with the prior pile of bones idea, have it hoard ivory and carved bone art objects.

Marnath
2012-09-17, 04:35 PM
Mixing this with the prior pile of bones idea, have it hoard ivory and carved bone art objects.

Like scrimshaw (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrimshaw)?

Coidzor
2012-09-17, 05:13 PM
Were there native sapient creatures before the colonists got there aside from the dragon(s)? Have you made up your mind as far as Atlantis-type and other such ancient lost civilizations go in your world?

hex0
2012-09-17, 06:41 PM
I like the bone and statues ideas... but also consider that dragons, themselves, may not be native. Assuming you're talking actual Australia (from a geographical reference standpoint), what if dragons come from Vietnam, Thailand, or even all the way from the Americas? Or that they hitched a ride from "England" to find more open areas (with fewer competing dragons)? They would be younger, at first, and wanting to build up riches... but there's no riches to build up. And there's hostile "alien" monsters who are already there.

This is actually interesting. Coming from "Europe" they expect that the villagers' rumors are about Western Dragons, Red Dragons come to mind first. So when they go into the lair expecting to deal with fire they instead encounter a Eastern Dragon, like a Lung Dragon or something.

Edit: Stats in Oriental Adventures.

nedz
2012-09-18, 05:29 AM
You could always subvert the horde thing by giving the Dragon VoP.
It would have to be a good Dragon though; still, ..., more subversion.

Or have it collect intangible things like
Poems, Philosophy, Stories, Dream Time.

Actually I quite like the last one, but how do you collect Dream Time ?

Eldan
2012-09-18, 06:11 AM
Actually I quite like the last one, but how do you collect Dream Time ?

I suppose you would take control of prominent landmarks.

Smart_alec
2012-09-18, 07:35 AM
Were there native sapient creatures before the colonists got there aside from the dragon(s)? Have you made up your mind as far as Atlantis-type and other such ancient lost civilizations go in your world?
Native sapients that are still around (In the natural world. The Feywilde, Underdark and various other planes haven't come up yet and I haven't put much thought into them. Consider them as writ unless stated otherwise):
Bullywugs, Craud, Drakoth, Gnolls (Now more Thylacine like than Hyena like), Kobolds, Kuo-Toa, Lizardfolk, Myconds, Sahuagin, Troglodytes and Trolls (with a more Bunyip like flavor and a couple fewer IQ points).

There is also a small tribe of Dark One's on the west coast. (Which makes them either Chinese or Dutch/ French. Take which ever implication angers you the least.)TL;DB:
In this setting they are Halflings who had a massive hormonal disbalance as they were growing up. Generally because the mother hadn't had enough Cheese (Think Luiren Spring Cheese.) as they were breastfeeding.

This results in mood swings, hallucinations and mild schizophrenia with a side order of self mutilation and insomnia. Generally rejected and feared they aren't strictly native but they've been around for much longer than the settlers

You may notice a pattern there.

As for previous civilisations... Kind of. The environment here doesn't actually have the kind of resources that would allow a civilisation to prosper. (The various ingredients aren't available. No large pack animals, the ground is barely arable, there's no rivers and lakes are rare in their own right. [Yes there's a reason for that. See backstory bellow.]) But magic provides plenty of work arounds for stuff like that.

Specifically psions, sorcerers and shaman (druids and the like) being introduced to magic via various supernatural forces and using that to bypass the various physical issues that stop enough excess food from being produced to allow larger societies and leisure time. However as only those who had a literal magical advantage via birth or circumstance are able to create this kind of wealth and they generally consolidated it into personal advantage rather than building super/ stronger social structure.

As a result despite their advantages they didn't advance very far. (I figure early bronze age in the various fiefdoms and the stone age without.)

To whit (Backstory. Spoilered for size and lack of interest]:
Once upon a time There were Dragonborn in the setting, they and the Kobolds were the only sentient lizards on the continent before the bingly bloop magic blagh that I haven't quite worked out yet.

Needless to say one of them was a sorcerer and wanted more power. So she became a Dragon via great and evil transformative ritual. (I like reversing stuff like that because I think it's clever. Dragons are Asexual and have genetic differences due to the changes in the background magic in the area that bore them.) That same ritual transforming and mutating the people within her little barony into the other more varied reptilian species listed above. (Which is why there are so many different sentients around rather than the one or two truly intelligent and sentient species around in other parts of the world.) Partially lobotomising them in the process. (So they're no longer able to sense magic in the same way that other sentients can. So they can't build their way back up to the same tech level later.)

She then grew mad (for reasons that I haven't decided on yet) and smote the very land itself in her fury. Reshaping it in her own image (forcing most of the rivers underground and turning a good third of the continent into a vast dead/ featureless plain.) and killing most of the Dragonborn. (The survivors were then outbred by the other competing species.)

I'll admit that I'm not sure what she did next. She either slumbers and becomes the Tarrasque or ascends and becomes a rough equivalent to Tiamat.

I hope that answers your question.


This is actually interesting. Coming from "Europe" they expect that the villagers' rumors are about Western Dragons, Red Dragons come to mind first. So when they go into the lair expecting to deal with fire they instead encounter a Eastern Dragon, like a Lung Dragon or something.

Edit: Stats in Oriental Adventures.
I'm pleased to say that I think that I've answered this one.

Though I agree. That this:


I like the bone and statues ideas... but also consider that dragons, themselves, may not be native. Assuming you're talking actual Australia (from a geographical reference standpoint), what if dragons come from Vietnam, Thailand, or even all the way from the Americas? Or that they hitched a ride from "England" to find more open areas (with fewer competing dragons)? They would be younger, at first, and wanting to build up riches... but there's no riches to build up. And there's hostile "alien" monsters who are already there.
Is extremely interesting. Maybe next time.


Like scrimshaw (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrimshaw)?
And I now have a name for the Dragon no matter what I end doing with it. (How the heck do you carve ivory out of muscle?)


You could always subvert the horde thing by giving the Dragon VoP.
It would have to be a good Dragon though; still, ..., more subversion.

Or have it collect intangible things like
Poems, Philosophy, Stories, Dream Time.

Actually I quite like the last one, but how do you collect Dream Time ?
VoP?

You hoard dream time by time traveling back to creation over and over and over and over again until there's enough of you to rule the world and you remake it in your image.

Edit: This has become much more discript than I thought it would be.

Can I request that this is moved to the homebrew section please?

Kelb_Panthera
2012-09-18, 08:26 AM
I've always looked at the hoarding of treasure to be a coping mechanism.

Dragons have the instinct to hoard shinies. They also have a self image as creatures of infinite wisdom and power. These aspects of their psychology are at odds. To cope with this conflict between self-image and instinct they hoard treasure.

That's how I've always fluffed it anyway.

If you take that outlook, and apply a situation where treasure, in the form of non-perishable goods, is unavailable I could see dragons trying to hoard other things.

I like the scrimshaw idea, though any carved item with artistic or spiritual value to the "mortals" would be good.

Perishables that store well could also work, e.g. teas, fabrics, furs, exotic plants and woods, etc.

In an extreme case, if the territory has no items that could be considered valuable other than immediately perishable food, I could even see a dragon trying to "hoard" political power. Just because the civilization nearby is primitive doesn't mean it has no power structure. A dragon, especially a dragon with shapechanging magic, could try to amass as much political clout as possible by taking over the roles of tribal chieftans, shamans, advisors, or even gods; perhaps even in multiple tribes. Though since this doesn't address the hording instinct tangibly, the dragon would likely try to use that political power to either distract himself by fomenting conflict or to have the tribe(s) strike out into nearby territories to aquire more tangible items to hoard.

And of course, Draconomicon suggests that dragons might also hoard magical power. This may be too obvious for your taste though.

nedz
2012-09-18, 09:28 PM
VoP = Vow of Poverty (BoED)

The whole Dragon Horde thing comes from Northern European Mythology (See Beowulf).
Tribes had hordes, which was an honour thing. When a tribe died out their horde was buried and a dragon was said to guard it. If you stole from the horde then the dragon would seek you out and attack you because you had violated the honour of a dead tribe. This is about half the plot of Beowulf.

In an Australian context Tribes have their stories and dream time. They also have quite a lot of art, but much of it is very transient. I'm not sure a Dragon's horde really works in this context.

QuidEst
2012-09-19, 01:03 PM
Well, if this is a more heavily magical setting, they could collect names. Not just finding them out- you have to state your name to the dragon of your own will. (Giving your name under threat of being eaten still counts.) Gives the dragon some hold over you. Most of a dragon's "hoard" is made up of the names of commoners nearby who give names in bulk, as it were, to keep pastures, villages, etc. safe. The names aren't used for anything other than status and basic "leave me alone"/"keep intruders away" instructions. Dragons mainly seek more powerful names- adventurers, extraplanar beings, etc. To this end, they hoard anything that could be traded for a name. It's common knowledge that if you're famous enough, you can deal with a dragon for just about anything you like. You don't know what they'll use it for, but no dragon wants to get a reputation of abusing names it holds, so it's much safer than a Faustian deal.

There are plenty of other things they could collect in a similar vein. People's shadows, memories, reflections, hopes, dreams…

Pokonic
2012-09-19, 02:51 PM
Now now now, what would a dragon take thats valuable, yet not physical?

Simple, realy.

Magic.

The Dreamtime was a nice place for dragons. They grew fast, lived like gods, and everything was pretty sweet until Wagyl wandered off somewhere and never came back. Now, those scales that came off him and lodged in the riverbeds are pretty, but not realy worth much to them personaly. No, everything has a little bit of the primoral world in it, and dragons can feel like they used too by "hoarding" the stuff in a floaty ball and siphoning it off in little chunks.


Also, they get to eat the now catonic captives, so there fair game as well.



As for a idea to keep dragons actualy having intrest in gems and gold: they use it as a food source. Finding a abandoned mine shaft is like finding a larder.

nedz
2012-09-19, 03:39 PM
Well, if this is a more heavily magical setting, they could collect names. Not just finding them out- you have to state your name to the dragon of your own will. (Giving your name under threat of being eaten still counts.) Gives the dragon some hold over you. Most of a dragon's "hoard" is made up of the names of commoners nearby who give names in bulk, as it were, to keep pastures, villages, etc. safe. The names aren't used for anything other than status and basic "leave me alone"/"keep intruders away" instructions. Dragons mainly seek more powerful names- adventurers, extraplanar beings, etc. To this end, they hoard anything that could be traded for a name. It's common knowledge that if you're famous enough, you can deal with a dragon for just about anything you like. You don't know what they'll use it for, but no dragon wants to get a reputation of abusing names it holds, so it's much safer than a Faustian deal.

There are plenty of other things they could collect in a similar vein. People's shadows, memories, reflections, hopes, dreams…

Nice idea, but I think it works better with Truenames. We just need to change their spellcasting method from Sorcery to Truenaming. We would also need to use a fixed version of TN of course.

Ed: Can this be re-fluffed as the Dream time thing ?
During the Dreaming: whilst others explored the land, we just learned the names of everything.

AgentofHellfire
2012-09-21, 04:23 PM
Have them be pretty much entirely motivated by those things that motivate animals: Eating, sleeping, occasionally mating, etc.

Also have them be immortal. So they never die, exactly. Instead, they steadily grow less and less and less active, and then eventually spend pretty much all their time in sleep.

Then, alter your setting so that a group of humans does something that keeps waking the dragon up. :smallsmile:

Incom
2012-09-21, 05:40 PM
In an extreme case, if the territory has no items that could be considered valuable other than immediately perishable food, I could even see a dragon trying to "horde" political power. Just because the civilization nearby is primitive doesn't mean it has no power structure. A dragon, especially a dragon with shapechanging magic, could try to amass as much political clout as possible by taking over the roles of tribal chieftans, shamans, advisors, or even gods; perhaps even in multiple tribes. Though since this doesn't address the hording instinct tangibly, the dragon would likely try to use that political power to either distract himself by fomenting conflict or to have the tribe(s) strike out into nearby territories to aquire more tangible items to horde.

This is insanely cool.

Actually, a setting in which any given dragon color hordes something different would be pretty interesting. Red dragons horde gold, yes, but they're just the most common type of dragon so that's the stereotype; black dragons horde social clout (Onyxia from WoW?), dracoliches horde bones and other dead stuff; meanwhile, metallic dragons might have knowledge/books, artwork, magic items, technology (whatever that might mean in your setting), a garden... Go nuts.

toapat
2012-09-21, 06:28 PM
black dragons horde social clout (Onyxia from WoW?)

no, Onyxia is just the most well known instance of a dragon taking hold politically in Warcraft lore, and it would go against black dragons' nature in DnD at that.

Dragon color and Hoards/Hordes:
Red - Gold
Black - Land
Green - Legends (Lorekeeper and bait)
Blue - Views (Any land that a Blue dragon wants will have a million dollar view)
White - Baubles

Gold - Exotic Materials (gems, metals, meteors)
Bronze - knowledge
Silver - Political Power
Copper - Game (Animals, whoever is unfortunate enough to invent chess)
Brass - Intellectual people (the actual people)

SaintRidley
2012-09-21, 07:08 PM
Give your dragon a PhD in Art History and make it an art collector.

Marnath
2012-09-21, 07:14 PM
Guys, dragons HOARD treasure. A horde is something else.:smallsigh:

Kelb_Panthera
2012-09-21, 09:14 PM
Guys, dragons HOARD treasure. A horde is something else.:smallsigh:

....... **** :smallfurious:

My psychological neurosis now demands that I edit my previous post to fix it. I hope you're happy. :smallannoyed:










:smalltongue: The rage is a joke. I only wish the neurosis was too.

I also wish that a nintendo wii had a find and replace function, so I wouldn't have to go back and change each instance of that mistake by hand.

Cerlis
2012-09-22, 12:36 AM
If i where you, what i'd do is make some special story.

I'm pretty sure even in the dragonomicon its stated that even dragons dont understand their need to horde treasure. This is what i'd base it off of.

Perhaps back in the before Dragons had some great powerful need. Maybe it was the need to reproduce, to devour. Maybe harness and use magic.

Either way this powerful need was very destructive so the people of yore created a ritual, using a powerful dragon as a focus, to alter that need. After quickly learning they couldnt lessen it they intead diverted it to something else. Material wealth, anything that SEEMED valuable (which was easy since the casters , as mortals, are greedy themselves). But they knew this wouldnt perfect it, because then they'd have to give tributes to dragons and bribe them. Though that was better than getting slaughtered or blown up. So they instead put another feeling into this greed lust. paranoia. Causing the dragons affected to fear enemies stealing their wealth and guarding it jealously. Occassionally you'd have a dragon strike out at settlers or cities because they feared its presence. But most feared that would encourage mortals to strike out and steal their wealth. So most are content to slaughter other dragons and raid ruins for most of their wealth. But never stray far and spend most of their time guarding it.

In this new land, whether it was a great battle in which the local dragons used an artifact (potential mcguffin) to fight off the enchantment, and those who wielded it. or just a matter that this place was to far for the local dragons to be effected.


Though i do like the idea about trophies. Usually dragon bones and bodies retain alot of magic. And i'd imagine instead of amulets , weapons and orbs dragons would horde the bones of their enemies, treating them like magical artifacts.

Incom
2012-09-22, 11:27 AM
no, Onyxia is just the most well known instance of a dragon taking hold politically in Warcraft lore, and it would go against black dragons' nature in DnD at that.

Dragon color and Hordes:
Red - Gold
Black - Land
Green - Legends (Lorekeeper and bait)
Blue - Views (Any land that a Blue dragon wants will have a million dollar view)
White - Baubles

Gold - Exotic Materials (gems, metals, meteors)
Bronze - knowledge
Silver - Political Power
Copper - Game (Animals, whoever is unfortunate enough to invent chess)
Brass - Intellectual people (the actual people)

Ah, thanks for the correction. I get these things mixed up sometimes.


Guys, dragons HOARD treasure. A horde is something else.:smallsigh:


....... **** :smallfurious:

My psychological neurosis now demands that I edit my previous post to fix it. I hope you're happy. :smallannoyed:
This. Normally I'm really good at that too... grr. Maybe later.

toapat
2012-09-22, 01:48 PM
Guys, dragons HOARD treasure. A horde is something else.:smallsigh:

not when the hoard is acollege of people.


Ah, thanks for the correction. I get these things mixed up sometimes.

well, we only have a 10 year in depth history of Azeroth really, and of that, we only have 3 instances of dragons taking power, of which are:

Deathwing: became lord of the kingdom of Alterac before being exposed by the other 4 dragon aspects. (6 months)
Onyxia: Takes position as advisor to Stormwind for 2 years until Varrien decapitates her.
Korialstrasz: 15+ year member of The Twelve Council, the Viceroys of the Dalaran City-state

Highly sugested:
Green Dragonflight: Leaders of the Druids.
Blue Dragonflight: Working as a limited police-like force within Dalaran up until Malygos declared war on the arcane.
Alexstrasza: While not officially, she is basically The ArchPope for every single non-evil religion.

JohnnyCancer
2012-09-25, 03:59 AM
Make the dragon a rancher, who dares rustle cattle from the mighty Cowdragon of the Lone Prairie?

Smart_alec
2012-09-27, 01:38 AM
Ok here's what I'm going to do: (Minus the aforementioned back story involving the Rainbow Wyrm. Copied directly to my notes folder. Names are place holders for the most part. This deals with individual dragons due to my absolute loathing of special character traits.)

Adamantine: Bruce: Evil mother hubard. Large size. Visual model is a Gecko (wingless, domed combat?). Holds sway over 3 tribes of Troglodytes ~400 individuals as "human" resources. Ultimate goal: Recreate the Dragonborn as a kind of ultimate species. Very mad SCIENtist flavoured. An Ubermensch but not of the Nazi flavor. Is not trying to "Take over the world."

Black: None.

Blue:
Cameron: Neutral Evil. Colossal+ size. Based of a croc (wingless, no breath weapon, takes non-lethal damage each turn s/he's out of the water. [d8's?]) and aquatic (living island combat?). Major motivating factor is food. Requires an impossible amount of energy in order to get around and spends most of it's time inactive as a result. Worshipped by an absolutely rabid sect (~2000 members) of Chull who spend a large amount of time funnelling food into his/her gullet. In order to sustain her/ him. (How does s/he wake up?)

Charlie: Chaotic Good. Medium size (long). Based off a croc (wingless, no breath weapon) semi-aquatic. Moves clumsily on land. (Barbarian Class template applied. Weapons?) Tries to hoard (why?) but doesn't have the attention span for it. The fast majority of it's treasure (Mostly poorly maintained and collected trophies. [Smells terrible. Entire corpses?]) sits un-noticed and uncared for half way home. (Mangrove swamp on the southern coast.) Highly social. (Think the comic relief in a bad Saturday morning cartoon.)

Brass: Codswallop: Unaligned and non-sentient but "cunning". Dragon model (2x6). Huge size. Baloth and maxed acrobatic skill (Can fly but location forces clumsy flight.). (Jungle location running/ fleeing combat.) Craven =/= Cowardly. Greater speed turns into a fight of attrition.

Bronze: Camomile. Lawful good. Dragon model. Huge size. Refuses to fight unless pushed but is absolutely obsessed with his/her relative power level. Partially indoctrinated into the settlers society and system of law in particular but is a definite separate entity. Interested in EVERYTHING (extremely enthusiastic) and in the various technological advances the settlers bring in particular. Carries a cart (wheels) of trinkets and dodads (has trouble defining relative quality of different items) around with him/her. (Very much like Wall-e or Ariel in that way. What does s/he want?)

Brown: Caltrop. Lawful Evil. Psion. 4e Brown Dragon model. (Those wing's just look damn good.) Gargantuan size. Will never get into direct conflict. When s/he knows the adventurers are coming s/he will booby trap the cave and just leave. Is effectively a media baron and a shaman for a host of different tribes in the immediate area. Offering various rituals, minor magical works and advice remotely for a small fee as well as acting as a neutral party in diplomatic negotiation. Does a matinee performance every Thursday night (or rough equivalent). Personality wise s/he is Big Brother. Forces cohesion between the various tribes that s/he has influence over but making them actively hostile to anybody else. Is leading the skirmishing and violence against the invasion forces (perspective) and expanding his area of influence.

Doug: Unaligned. Gecko model. Gargantuan size. Mind slave to the Micond collective. Fungal template.

Gold: Hannah: Chaotic good. Eurasian model. Medium size long (gigantic). Functionally an artist. Very little personality beyond that. Not very interesting.

Grey: Harold: Chaotic evil. Dragon model. Large size. S/he's a stoner (all you need to know). Probably the furthest travelled of the various giant X breathing beasties. Maintains a large crop of Kava (or a local equivalent of it) on a small island and uses it constantly. (Doesn't feel pain and has a huge poison resistance.)

Green: Hogwarts: Unaligned. Drake model (2x2). Medium size. Mind slave to the Micond collective. Doug's rough equivalent of a rape child. Fungal template.

Harvard: Unaligned. Drake model (2x2). Medium size. Mind slave to the Micond collective. Doug's rough equivalent of a rape child. Fungal template.

Hull: Unaligned. Drake model (2x2). Medium size. Mind slave to the Micond collective. Doug's rough equivalent of a rape child. Fungal template.

Iron: Jordan: Chaotic evil. (The persistent/ pursuing Flame! [Must be said in a highly camp fashion.]) Huge size. (With a weirdly small head.) Eurasian dragon model. (Sorcerer template.) Functionally a great white hunter. Honourable (after it's own fashion) and highly powerful. The oldest mother hubbard around. Hoards completed skeletons in excellent condition (near as you can get) as statues around the place.

Mercury: TBD.

Mithral: TBD.

Orium: TBD.

Purple: TBD.

Red: TBD.

Silver: TBD.

Steel: TBD.

White: TBD.

And a massive thank you to all of you wonderful people.

Slipperychicken
2012-09-27, 08:00 AM
The only reason gold and other precious metals (silver, bronze, platinum, etc) are considered valuable is they're rare enough that having a lot of it makes you special.

So you just need something rare or hard to make that's considered valuable.


One option is to hoard art. Fine sculptures can be quite valuable, especially if well-made, and composed of something valuable (like ivory, rock, or glass). Same goes for paintings and other pretty-looking items (especially shiny ones with fancy inscriptions or runes carved into them).

Other people mentioned hoarding cattle or other livestock. Pre-industrial people basically treated horses/cattle like cars. They were a status symbol, and having a lot means you're wealthy and special. They're so valuable, a lot of people would sooner starve than kill their cattle for food.

JellyPooga
2012-09-27, 08:36 PM
Or have it collect intangible things like
Poems, Philosophy, Stories, Dream Time.

Actually I quite like the last one, but how do you collect Dream Time ?

Nedz...I cannot believe how much I like that idea. One of my favourite Lovecraft tales is the Dreamquest of Unknown Kadath, so I've got all sorts of ideas about dreamwalking and the like. I've got an image of there being two factions of dragons (or even just two dragons) on this island; one of which is using the dreamscape to gather power, steal thoughts and corrupt the dreams and psyche of the inhabitants and the other is more benevolent, guiding dreamwalkers, protecting the uninitiated from the ravages of their evil counterparts and such.

Using this, you could build up a real multi-layered plot where the characters have to discover who's who in both the waking world and the dreamscape, solve the mystery and save the colonists before the evil-bad-dream-guys being reality crashing down by opening a physical gate between the worlds...and it's made all the harder by the fact that time does not work the same way in the dreamscape as it does in the waking world...maybe one of the good guys in the dreamscape is one of the bad guys in the waking world many years in the future.

Ravenica
2012-09-27, 08:43 PM
I haven't seen ivory mentioned yet.
Obsidian is a good possibility considering surface availability and primitive usage.
Exotic wood's pretty valuable, so primitive artwork of that as well.

Toofey
2012-09-30, 03:49 PM
ancient coins from a long lost civilization