Comic Books

[Jayngfet]

So with the DC's new 52 about a year old, Marvel Now coming up fast, Amazing Spider-Man's super exciting climax issue coming up in a few months, the Superman and Avengers vs. X-Men under way I figure this is as good a time as any to have a talk about comic books in general.

Who's reading what? What's good to follow, what's bad to avoid? What changes or development do you love or hate? Who's your top writer or artist, and who's your bottom?

I'm a pretty big fan of the current Spider-Man run. It's taking the character in directions he really should have gone years ago and it seems like the team there has a general plan they're following instead of just making it up as they go as is unfortunately common. The one thing I don't like is this whole "Alpha" thing that's been going on for the last few issues, since Peter's making incredibly stupid decisions and then blaming them on the rookie he's supposed to be stopping from making stupid decisions.

I'm on the edge of quitting current Green Lantern though. I've come down from buying all the Lantern stuff to pretty much just buying the main book and corps, and I'm probably going to drop the main book since modern-era Hal has never really appealed to me. Guy's new backstory is basically just his old backstory with much less finesse to it. The whole Green Lantern thing is lacking finesse in general lately as characters increasingly tend to shout their feelings and motivations out at the top of their lungs. Going back and hunting down the older issues of Darkstars and Guy Gardner from the 80's and they're fantastic though.

Wonder Woman is probably my favorite New 52 title. The plot is tight and feels important without resorting to the kind of take over/destroy the world stakes half the rest of the comics are playing to. The enemy doesn't seem to want to destroy or rule the world so much as squabble and not care who dies getting in the way and it's a great distinction when compared to what's going on in say, Animal Man/Swamp Thing or Green Lantern.

Hulk's current run is ...different. It's great they aren't trying to ape the style of the previous run if they know they can't and are just making everything as madcap and fast paced as they can. It SEEMS random but they keep throwing out hints that there's some vague structure in the weird mess of seemingly random things being thrown out there.

Also, it's always rather amusing reading something drawn by Steve Dillon. He isn't that great but you can pick out his art style due to the very specific case of sameface he's got going on where somehow, Frank Castle and May Parker manage to have the exact same facial structure.

The whole mess with Rob Liefeld a couple of weeks ago ...happened. I'm not taking a side either way because while Rob a horrible artist who's picking fights in places it's unwise to, he's clearly a passionate person and a lot of the problems he's ragging on people about have been speculated on and tossed around by lower level fans and store owners. He was rude about it, but it's nice to hear someone come out and say that maybe your Batman comics aren't selling because you're a great writer, but they're selling because they have Batman's face on the cover(not that I don't like the whole court of owls thing going on, it's just not something I'm following too closely).

[Devonix]

Green Lantern was kinda so so for a while but looks to be getting good Brightest Day and Corps War were nowhere near as good as Sinestro Corps War and Blackest night. My biggest problem is I always felt that the books, especillt GL Corps were better when they focused on smaller Arcs. That and I hate Hal Jordan and only maginally like Sinestro as a villan, and hate him as a protagonist.


Now that Hal and Sinestro are finnaly once again Dead we can focus on the GL characters I actually like.

Also New Guardians is amazing and everyone should be reading that.

[Jayngfet]

Green Lantern was kinda so so for a while but looks to be getting good Brightest Day and Corps War were nowhere near as good as Sinestro Corps War and Blackest night. My biggest problem is I always felt that the books, especillt GL Corps were better when they focused on smaller Arcs. That and I hate Hal Jordan and only maginally like Sinestro as a villan, and hate him as a protagonist.


Now that Hal and Sinestro are finnaly once again Dead we can focus on the GL characters I actually like.

Also New Guardians is amazing and everyone should be reading that.



They aren't dead yet. Read Green Lantern issue 0. Apparently they just got shunted into another dimension or something.


Hal for the last few years has been nothing like he was the last time he was a consistent main character, or even in his rare guest appearances after he died under flashbacks and time travel.

My absolute favorite interpretation of Jordan is the grizzled old veteran Hal from the 80's and 90's who had been gaining experience and respect since the early silver age. He felt like a tired old guy who couldn't stand the shenanigans the younger, more immature heroes got up to all the way to the point where he referred to the JLI as "a glorified summer camp" even though they were begging him to join.

[Eldan]

It's quite easy to list what I've read, at least out of America:

The Sandman
Lucifer
V for Vendetta
Watchmen

I think that's all.

[hamlet]

It's quite easy to list what I've read, at least out of America:

The Sandman
Lucifer
V for Vendetta
Watchmen

I think that's all.

Swap out Lucifer for Hellboy, and that's largely my list, too. I'm currently part way through Sandman and Hellboy and wanting more of them as funds allow. Great stuff.

I have a love hate relationship with comics.

On the one hand, I'd really like to read more of them. I think, from time to time, that the stories are cool, interesting, and just plain old shlocky fun.

On the other hand, there's a three fold problem here. 1) I never read comics as a kid*, so all the backstory that's neccessary to actually understand what's going on in the current story lines is . . . entirely absent. I have no idea who some of the characters are in the current Batman revival in DC, or Green Lantern, or Superman, so I've dropped those subscriptions entirely (the only three I paid for). It annoys me that I'm short 50 or so years of backstory and that there's no real entry level for these things anywhere.

2) And more infuriatingly, the stories bleed into each other all over the place, so I can't just read one story to understand it, I need to read all of them. Even in Sandman it's kind of important that you know who some of these other characters are to understand what the hell's going on. That bothers me. They aren't discrete stories and, on some level, I'm sure it's a grab for money, not that I entirely blame them for it. It's kind of brilliant in a way.

3) And, embarrasingly in a way, I grew up after the onrush of comics, and during the onrush of the animated shows. My version of the X-Men involves the yellow spandex and the Saturday morning cartoon show. Batman, for me, is all about the TV show, same with Superman. No, seriously. These are awesome, and they occupy prime place for my conception of these characters. The comics irk me just a bit because they "get it wrong" so to speak.

All that said, there are some really excellent, more discrete works that I'm really starting to like. The above mentioned being the big ones. I'd like to get my hands on a collection of Lucifer, maybe, just because the character in Sandman makes me chuckle so much. And proves to me that, at the very least, Gaiman is fairly intelligent in theological and literary terms. Gaiman's Lucifer is really an excellent primer for Milton, believe it or not.



*The reason was not, as was the case in a lot of folks, that "comics are bad" but that "comics are expensive." For the cost of a single comic book, which was about 15 minutes worth of entertainment, you could purchase a paperback novel from the used bookstore down the road (which has LOTS of good stuff even now) and be entertained for days, or even weeks. It was, to my parents, a matter of cost effectiveness. And to this day, it largely is to me as well.

[hamlet]

This is not a double post.

You are imagining things.

On to the next slide please!

[Eldan]

At least you have the animated shows to remember. I don't even have that. I grew up on Tintin, Asterix, Lucky Luke and the German Disney comics. Pretty much no concept of super heroes at all.

I'm not even sure if they would interest me. Avengers was a ton of fun, as were some other movies in that Franchise. Nolan's Batman was entertaining for a movie, even if sometimes overshooting the Serious mark all the way back round to Ridiculous. But I just have no idea where to start. There's too much out there and I don't have the money (Import taxes and delivery from the US) or time to really get into it.

[Avilan the Grey]

Well I am almost exclusively reading DC, and female titles at that.

I am reading:

Birds of Pray (despite it being awful compared to before The New 52)

Supergirl (Definitely a good title)

Batgirl (It is not awful, but it was definitely better before The New 52, especially letting Barbara "heal" was an AWFUL decision).

Wonder Woman (It is definitely worse than the second to last run, but not as bad as the short run just before the New 52 ("Rogues Old Uniform from 1996 in Different Colors"))

I am also dabbling in Red Lanterns and Blue Beetle.

Now, before the New 52 I also read Power Girl (cancelled, to my huge disappointment).

It is sad to see that 3 out of 4 comics I read regularly has become much worse after the New 52. Super Girl works because it is one of the best retellings of an origin story in later years!

[hamlet]

At least you have the animated shows to remember. I don't even have that. I grew up on Tintin, Asterix, Lucky Luke and the German Disney comics. Pretty much no concept of super heroes at all.

I'm not even sure if they would interest me. Avengers was a ton of fun, as were some other movies in that Franchise. Nolan's Batman was entertaining for a movie, even if sometimes overshooting the Serious mark all the way back round to Ridiculous. But I just have no idea where to start. There's too much out there and I don't have the money (Import taxes and delivery from the US) or time to really get into it.

Don't feel too bad. They were kind of a mixed bag, really.

Though Batman and The Superman Adventures were both actually very excellent shows, even by today's standards. If you get a chance, do watch them.

[Soras Teva Gee]

So the OP has left me terribly aware of just how much I have missed the last three years since I stopped collecting comics. (I rent and have been moving about the last few years)

So this Marvel NOW! thing, is there any reason why I as a terribly cynical person that decided to tell the company to go **** itself six months before I stopped reading comics period and was down to I wanna say Brubaker's Cap only for a long while before that.... is there any reason I should not conclude this is not the same tremendously lame publicity orient stunts they have been pulling through seemingly most of Quesada's reign?

Because checking briefly I smell lame attempt to copy the New 52 event.

I've been sampling though a couple of New 52 books, all Super-family ones since I like Supergirl. What if anything is worth following more then casually?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Actually I have been trying to find some recompilation of older storyline, for example a few months back I was able to find a decently priced hardback of the Killing Joke and now I am trying to find one of Knightfall.

On the marvel side I am also trying to get the recompilations of Civil War, Secret Invasion and Dark Reign... and I am hoping they print one of Avengers vs. X-men as I haven't been able to follow it.

[Gamer Girl]

Who's reading what? What's good to follow, what's bad to avoid? What changes or development do you love or hate? Who's your top writer or artist, and who's your bottom?

I never really came back to comics from my big fall. At one time in the early '90's I was buying a good 20 comics a week. They kept the stories fresh, had new ideas, cared about continuity and had some great stories. By 2000 I had dropped down to only like 10 or so a month, and I stuck around until 2005 or so....but then I just dropped them complexity.

The main things I could just not stand:

1.Horrible artwork. Really, where it looks like some three year old slapped it together. And on top of that was things like messy dark black and red pages of vague shapes all in shadow with a little text here and there. It's like they forgot that the whole point of a comic was to look at art.

2.Horrible stories. They, quite suddenly, just go to a point of ''just slap a popular character's name on any old story''. And there were so many of them.

3.The Cinematic Rise. With the super hero movies, they suddenly wanted to make the comics look just like the movies. Like #2, this resulted in tons and tons of wasted space.

4.The Rise of the Kid. Also at the same time, suddenly, everyone in comics not only looked like a kid, but they acted like kids. Most character's lost a good ten years over night

5.The Disruptions. Marvel might be the worst here. Like when they canceled all there popular books for a year, outsourced them, and then brought them back. Or things like the Civil War, Skrull Invasion or whatever killed of every mutant in the world except the x-men(wink wink) that changed the whole fictional world.


A great example was the last Iron Man I ever bought, somewhere after #50. The comic starts with several wasted pages showing you 'inner city New York', and several more showing you 'young ladies standing on the curbs'. Then the focus shifts to a very, very, very young drawn girl, who looks to be about 14 standing on a street corner. Then a flashy sports car pulls up and tells her to get inside, she does and you turn the page and...yup it's Tony Stark(Iron Man). Finally showing up after like a dozen pages in his own comic and oh my gosh, Tony just picked up an underage prostitute! But of course that does not happen. Tony chats with her for a bit, and then drives her to a woman's shelter and ''saves her''. Everyone is happy, Tony has just fixed the whole world. In all this takes up a good 15 pages of the 22 page comic. A comic called Iron Man and not Save the Young Girls. At like close to $5 I felt it was a huge waste of money. So I dropped Iron Man right there.

[Jayngfet]

So the OP has left me terribly aware of just how much I have missed the last three years since I stopped collecting comics. (I rent and have been moving about the last few years)

So this Marvel NOW! thing, is there any reason why I as a terribly cynical person that decided to tell the company to go **** itself six months before I stopped reading comics period and was down to I wanna say Brubaker's Cap only for a long while before that.... is there any reason I should not conclude this is not the same tremendously lame publicity orient stunts they have been pulling through seemingly most of Quesada's reign?

Because checking briefly I smell lame attempt to copy the New 52 event.

I've been sampling though a couple of New 52 books, all Super-family ones since I like Supergirl. What if anything is worth following more then casually?

The current run of spider-man is, again, really really good. I hadn't read any main universe spider-comics before that one and it works IMO, because the bulk of what you need to know is what everybody knows: Peter Parker is a nerdy genius who is a superhero, JJJ hates spiderman with an irrational fury, and there's all kinds of freaky dudes in New York trying to do bad things he has to stop.

There's a bit of stuff from the clone saga and a couple of references to more recent past stuff but you can make educated guesses based on what's happening and come out knowing enough.

I'm reserving my opinion on Marvel Now until it actually comes out. It seems much better than New 52 though, simply because it's better organised and much more well planned from the looks of things. It seems like they actually waited and saw what DC was doing wrong and then made sure to do those things right.

I mean I like some of the New 52, but lets be honest, it's a communication nightmare. Things get retconned out of existence after having been mentioned mere months beforehand during the New 52 itself, but they don't tell the writers handling those characters or else they just ignore it, then mention the retconned stuff and force it back into canon. It's enough of a stress keeping track of what's actually happened and what hasn't. my hair is starting to turn Parallax Grey.

[Aotrs Commander]

...

Well, I am apparently going to be reading rather less stuff in the immediate future, now that I'm aware of this "Marvel Now" stuff, as it looks like at least two of the X-titles I read are going to be cancelled, and the replacements don't hold any appeal to me (given that most of the characters I like aren't in them, and I get my Wolverine fix enough from his own title.)

I suppose this is not a bad thing - they are getting more and more expensive (especially since I have to mail-order all my comics now, as my local comic store ceased to exist as few years back), and the overall quality - after the spike in the Heroic Age stuff - is dropping off again.

(I'm also seriously fracked that, after making Jubilee a superhero, and then turning her into a Vampire, that they ran out of ideas for her AGAIN, apparently, and shelved her. I am seriously beginning to believe they actually do this on purpose, knowing she's popular enough that when she shows up, people like me will generally get that comic - which wouldn't be a problem, but they just as soon drop her out of it thereafter. And they are apparently starting to get wise to Majorie Liu (who is a superb Jubilee writer, who really likes the character) and not letting her write stories with her in it. It's really freaking annoying and frustrating my favourite of favourite characters appears to have become a cynical marketing tool that they treat like a fracking punchbag!)

It's a shame really, since I've been following Marvel (due to Jubilee, primarily and the X-Men) since the mid-ninties, and it's a damning statement to have to say I think I rather preferred the stuff back then.

That's right, I said it!

Some of the current superhero comics are worse than they were in the nineties!



Must I be squeezed out of every form of entertainment I previously enjoy? Apparently, yes, I must, or it certainly feels that way at the moment... Oh well, all the more reason to simple level the planet with orbital bombardment when my times comes...

[Zevox]

I've still barely read anything from the New 52, due to only reading trades and DC being ridiculously slow at putting those out.

I read Green Lantern series consistently. So far the only New 52 trades of those that are out are for the main book and the Red Lanterns - Corps and New Guardians don't come out until next month.

The first main GL New 52 trade was so-so.
I like seeing more of Sinestro, and Hal having to cope with losing his ring is an interesting idea in theory, but at the end of it I somehow didn't feel like much had happened. Beyond setup for the Guardians going completely off the rails, anyway. And I had a hard time buying the entire Sinestro Corps going down as easily as they did.

I hope things pick up in the next trade, because this is the slowest I've seen the series.

Oh, and the art style completely changing in the last issue was jarring and annoying. Hope that won't be the new standard, either - while there's little wrong with it per se, I think everyone looks much too young in that style.

The Red Lanterns' first arc... seemed to have some good ideas behind it, but had serious execution problems.
I said the GL trade was slow? The RL one was slower. Far, far too slow. About all that happened is Atrocitus having trouble deciding what to do with the Red Lanterns, giving Bleez and a few others back their ability to think, minor power struggles between Atrocitus and Bleez, and the reveal of Atrocitus' former experiments attacking him at the end. Well, and the Human Red Lantern being set up, but he didn't really do anything either, besides show up on Ysmault right at the end when Atrocitus was being attacked. Oh, and his hair being all firey looks pretty stupid - especially since we've seen Red Lanterns with hair before, including two Humans via Hal and Guy, none of them had anything like that happen.

I liked how Atrocitus and Bleez played off each other (and especially the events when Bleez visited her mother's tomb), but otherwise, needed work.

I'll be getting Corps and New Guardians next month, like I said. I also have Firestorm and Aquaman's first New 52 trades ordered for this month, because Amazon had them quite cheap, I was interested in Firestorm after reading Brightest Day, and a friend of mine plus practically every source of comic info I see on the internet recommended Aquaman. Though honestly, at least from reading Blackest Night and Brightest Day, I like Aquaman's wife, Mera, more than Aquaman himself. In any event, I'll see what I think of those in due time.

Zevox

[Jayngfet]

Though honestly, at least from reading Blackest Night and Brightest Day, I like Aquaman's wife, Mera, more than Aquaman himself. In any event, I'll see what I think of those in due time.

Zevox

Honestly, I didn't like Aquaman and dropped it really, really quickly. "Aquaman sucks" is all well and good a statement in a joke series or in a discussion, but it doesn't belong in a world where he actually exists and by comparison to normal humans you may as well be fighting superman strength wise. There's no reason for the sentiment to exist besides that's what some people who don't read Aquaman keep repeating.

Also, I keep getting the feeling that everything is Aquaman's fault. Or at least, Black Manta is. I mean you kill a dude's parents and he starts dressing in black and haunting the night. This is like, 101 level comic book knowledge.

[Cen]

So if it is general comicbook thread would be right place to ask this:
Before Watchmen - is it as horrible as I have heared it is?

[Raimun]

I've been reading erratically larger Marvel story arcs from the 2000s. I think they have been on the whole rather excellent light entertainment. I think the art is usually more pleasing for the eyes and more organic than it used to be decades ago. What I've found funny is that the same people who aren't pleased with the status quo might still boo at the most of the larger changes to it. Granted, not all changes have been very good *coughonemoredaycough* but some major changes have been dynamic, opened lot of story possibilities and made perfect sense, like Civil War:

Superhero legislation was bound to happen at some point and this story arc (and its "prequels") made way and connected to arcs to come, like WW Hulk, Secret Invasion, Dark Reign and Siege. For example, the new Thunderbolts under Orborn (and beyond that) was certainly a new and fresh direction.

[Water_Bear]

"Aquaman sucks" is all well and good a statement in a joke series or in a discussion, but it doesn't belong in a world where he actually exists and by comparison to normal humans you may as well be fighting superman strength wise. There's no reason for the sentiment to exist besides that's what some people who don't read Aquaman keep repeating.

Yeah, but on the other hand... dude shouldn't be in the Justice League.

Batman is the World's Greatest Detective and memetic master of Just-as-Planned. Wonder Woman is essentially the physical embodiment of truth with power approaching or even exceeding the Olympian Gods she serves. Flash and Green Lantern are absolute monsters if their abilities are used even remotely intelligently. Cyborg is apparently a pretty cool guy. Superman is Superman. What on earth does Aquaman bring to the table?

He's very strong... but other than Batman, he's the weakest by far.
He's pretty smart... but he's still the League's dumbest member right now.
His powers are pretty cool... but not really that impressive or even unique.

I think Aquaman ought to either focus on the "King of 71% of the Earth's Surface" aspect and actually use Atlantis' armies for something, or get a vast and immediate power boost. Otherwise, why is he there?

[Soras Teva Gee]

Yeah, but on the other hand... dude shouldn't be in the Justice League.

Yes... he's much too awesome.

[JoshL]

I grew up on comics, but wasn't really into superheroes as a kid. I gravitated (as I do in all things) to fantasy and horror. I had read at least one issue of most comics out there (it was my goal as a 10 year old to have one issue of every series that I could find). When Sandman came out, it was right up my alley. I was also a big fan of the old EC books, House of Secrets, Taboo, the Epic Hellraiser series, Stray Toasters (still one of my favorites), Johnny the Homicidal Maniac, etc.

For a while, I sort of fell out, only really keeping up with The Walking Dead, and the Serenity comics. Then I started reading Buffy Season 8, and Angel: After The Fall. Then Dark Horse started doing more Solomon Kane comics. With most publishers selling digital books, it's easier to want to try an issue or two, and buy the trades of stuff that I really like.

I'm still not as into the superhero thing, but I'm reading more of them. I enjoyed a lot of Deadpool (and GLA...Squirrel Girl rocks!), Runaways, some of the more deconstructive books (Kick-Ass, Watchmen, etc).

Short list of must reads:
Moonshadow - DeMatteis, with beautiful art by Muth (his adaptation of M is amazing too)
Fray - future slayer from Joss Whedon
Mr. Punch - possibly my favorite Gaiman/McKean work.
Stray Toasters - surrealist cyber-noir by Bill Sienkiewicz.
Mouse Guard: Fall 1152 - surprisingly serious fantasy story by David Petersen
Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth - Morrison, McKean, you've all read this, right?
Torso - Bendis and Andreyko. Usually I don't like true crime books, but this was solid.
From Hell - if I had to pick one Moore book, this would even beat out Watchmen, for Campbell's stark suggestive artwork. Beautiful and horrifying.
oh, and Invisible People by Will Eisner. My favorite of his city stories...just brilliant.

[Rake21]

Also, I keep getting the feeling that everything is Aquaman's fault. Or at least, Black Manta is. I mean you kill a dude's parents and he starts dressing in black and haunting the night. This is like, 101 level comic book knowledge.

In his defense, Manta already had the costume and may have already been kind of an ass... But, yeah, Arthur did kinda kill his dad, thus driving Manta into full-blown super villainy and mass murder.

...Oops?

I'm still liking the book, though.

Also from DC, I can't say enough good things about Batman, Batman Inc., and Animal Man. They're fantastic books, and I highly recommend them. Justice League Dark is also starting to come together, and I'm always up for watching John Constantine screw over every demon lord he meets.

From Marvel, we have the new Hawkeye series. It's two issues in, and I'm really enjoying it. The arts great, the writing is clever, and it focuses on Clint's life outside of the Avengers. Also, Kate Bishop is awesome. Give it a shot.

Also, if you just want something with some jaw dropping art and some nostalgic flair, I'd suggest picking up one of the OZ trades.

As my far my favorite character, Dan Slott is doing some great stories in Amazing Spider-man, as has been pointed out . Spider-Island is probably one of my favorite Spidey stories. But what drives me absolutely nuts is that every single one of these stories would have still worked perfectly fine if One More Day had never happened... and that some how makes me hate it even more.

[Tiki Snakes]

or get a vast and immediate power boost. Otherwise, why is he there?

What, another one? :smallwink:

[Fan]

Looking forward to the upcoming Supes + Super Girl + Super Boy event myself.

[Gamer Girl]

Granted, not all changes have been very good *coughonemoredaycough* but some major changes have been dynamic, opened lot of story possibilities and made perfect sense, like Civil War:

Superhero legislation was bound to happen at some point and this story arc (and its "prequels") made way and connected to arcs to come, like WW Hulk, Secret Invasion, Dark Reign and Siege. For example, the new Thunderbolts under Orborn (and beyond that) was certainly a new and fresh direction.

It's not that I mind the changes. You need the changes to keep everything new and fresh. It's just the huge enormity of the changes where your altering the whole world and then with a snap of the fingers just forgetting about it and going back to normal.

For example:
A big part of the Civil War arc had Spider Man reveal that he is Peter Parker to the public. It was a great moment in history. And it lasted all of ten seconds. To have Spider Man known to the public was just too big a change, so they quickly covered it up and changed it back.

Just things like: Now every single hero and villain has been an Avenger or a Thunderbolt. Every single state, plus all the world wide stuff, had their own 'Avenger's unit'. Every single villain was captured and imprisoned or put to work. But then some random story will just ignore all that just happened and have a ''classic villain rob a bank and a lone hero stop them''.

And things that still bug me: Right after Avengers #50 or so, the Avengers decide to be more proactive. Instead of just sitting around and doing nothing all the time, they decide to activity go out an catch the bad guys before they start making trouble. For a couple issues. Then the Avengers get cancelled, and everyone just forgets that ever happened. It would be too much of a change for the world to have proactive Avengers. It's kinda like the whinny X-Men how claim to ''want to help all mutants'', but have been unable to get off there lazy butts for years and years and actually bother to go out and save one single mutant.

[leafman]

As my far my favorite character, Dan Slott is doing some great stories in Amazing Spider-man, as has been pointed out . Spider-Island is probably one of my favorite Spidey stories. But what drives me absolutely nuts is that every single one of these stories would have still worked perfectly fine if One More Day had never happened... and that some how makes me hate it even more.

They said in the ASM #693 editorial (amazing spider-mail) that Pete and MJ will be getting back together in the next 50 issues. Hopefully it will be like OMD never happened, except they won't married, yet.

Reader: Do you plan to get Peter and Mary Jane back as boyfirend and girlfriend by Issue 750?
Simperin' Steve: Maybe even sooner. She's a big part of Pete's life.

I would recomend Avenging Spider-Man to anyone with more than a passing interest in the ol' web-head. It is a great Spider-Man team up book and is more of a episodic format so stories are wrapped in in 1-3 issues meaning there isn't much to catch up on.

[Jayngfet]

It's kinda like the whinny X-Men how claim to ''want to help all mutants'', but have been unable to get off there lazy butts for years and years and actually bother to go out and save one single mutant.

Honestly, the biggest threat to Mutantkind isn't the sentinels or the brotherhood at this point, but the X-Men themselves. The last two stories I read before dropping the title were Ghost Box and Xenogenesis.

The X-Men want to help mutants ...unless they happen to have a different kind of mutation or were mutated artificially. In which case they get no sympathy and are left to twist in the wind during situations where death is the most probable outcome.

The X-Men also are super heroes who were based off the west coast.

...unless LA, literally less than a day by bus(let alone super-jet), happens to get completely run over by zombies like it did in Runaways, face Skrull invaders like it did in Skrull Kill Krew, or deal with the general super lawlessness that happens in those parts after the fall of The Pride.

The didn't even get mentioned. If it wasn't for their interactions with Molly Haynes after I'd assume that's just for plot convenience, but there it's pretty much confirmed the X-Men would rather be self serving jerks who look out for their own, provided their own comes from this particular slice of 616, was born that way, and submits to genetic testing to prove that they're "real" mutants.

[Jayngfet]

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/ultimate-captain-america-decision-revealed.html

So ...this is apparently happening. There are so very, very, VERY many ways this can go wrong and not a single way it could ever possibly go right. I'm so glad I quit ultimate marvel years ago. It's this kind of thing that's a train-wreck you can't really appreciate unless you saw the bust in the tracks and jumped while everyone else ignored it.

My expression right now is so chaotic. My eyes look so depressed, but the rest of my face is smug and self satisfied and full of "told you so". I imagine this is how Jor-El looked in those last ten minutes.

[Aotrs Commander]

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/ultimate-captain-america-decision-revealed.html

So ...this is apparently happening. There are so very, very, VERY many ways this can go wrong and not a single way it could ever possibly go right. I'm so glad I quit ultimate marvel years ago. It's this kind of thing that's a train-wreck you can't really appreciate unless you saw the bust in the tracks and jumped while everyone else ignored it.

My expression right now is so chaotic. My eyes look so depressed, but the rest of my face is smug and self satisfied and full of "told you so". I imagine this is how Jor-El looked in those last ten minutes.

Given that the Ultimate universe was like that from the start, I don't think it can be anything worse than it already has. I mean, how could they top, er, rather bottom, Ulimatium?

With luck, it'll be bad enough for some to be fodder for Atop the Forth Wall...



The Ultimate universe is why I wouldn't trust Marvel (even less than DC) to do a reboot, since every spin-off universe they've done in recent years has been..., let's politely say, naff.

[Jayngfet]

The Ultimate universe is why I wouldn't trust Marvel (even less than DC) to do a reboot, since every spin-off universe they've done in recent years has been..., let's politely say, naff.

Speaking of, I don't know what's more insane about Punisher MAX: Dillon drawing in his repetitive and weird looking style or the writing that's bad on a wavelength that somehow synchs up PERFECTLY to how insane the art is.

It's like my favorite example of "so bad it's good". It's the kind of insanity that kicks you in the teeth for getting complacent simply because it constantly comes out of left field and adds another insane thing that doesn't make sense just to keep your head scratching.

[Devonix]

Yeah, but on the other hand... dude shouldn't be in the Justice League.

Batman is the World's Greatest Detective and memetic master of Just-as-Planned. Wonder Woman is essentially the physical embodiment of truth with power approaching or even exceeding the Olympian Gods she serves. Flash and Green Lantern are absolute monsters if their abilities are used even remotely intelligently. Cyborg is apparently a pretty cool guy. Superman is Superman. What on earth does Aquaman bring to the table?

He's very strong... but other than Batman, he's the weakest by far.
He's pretty smart... but he's still the League's dumbest member right now.
His powers are pretty cool... but not really that impressive or even unique.

I think Aquaman ought to either focus on the "King of 71% of the Earth's Surface" aspect and actually use Atlantis' armies for something, or get a vast and immediate power boost. Otherwise, why is he there?


What does he bring to the table???

Other than being a founding member when neither Superman or Batman were founding members.

There's Being richer than batman
acess to the best magic
a melee fighter on par with wonderwoman only not as physically strong
his own military force in both the Atlanteans and sealife when backup is needed in fullscale world invasions.
very good tactician
Strength in the upper teir
A connection to the olympians the same as wonderwoman's
ect.

[Jayngfet]

What does he bring to the table???

Other than being a founding member when neither Superman or Batman were founding members.

There's Being richer than batman
acess to the best magic
a melee fighter on par with wonderwoman only not as physically strong
his own military force in both the Atlanteans and sealife when backup is needed in fullscale world invasions.
very good tactician
Strength in the upper teir
A connection to the olympians the same as wonderwoman's
ect.

Yeah, but the problem is Aquaman can't escape the jokes. He's always either the butt of them or overcompesating BECAUSE of them. That issue of Justice League where he kills like 50 parademons by summoning sharks in one shot is a perfect example: He can't just summon a couple of sharks and spear parademons with his trident. He needs to overcompensate with a full page spread.

It's like a short old guy in a giant SUV. The car may look cool but he's still an insecure, balding, petty man with or without it.

[Xondoure]

Yeah, but the problem is Aquaman can't escape the jokes. He's always either the butt of them or overcompesating BECAUSE of them. That issue of Justice League where he kills like 50 parademons by summoning sharks in one shot is a perfect example: He can't just summon a couple of sharks and spear parademons with his trident. He needs to overcompensate with a full page spread.

It's like a short old guy in a giant SUV. The car may look cool but he's still an insecure, balding, petty man with or without it.

That or sharks are really awesome. One of the two.

As for me, well, I was fortunate enough to borrow a collection of eighties X-men along with a good deal of classic and they were fantastic. However, until comic books get better writers who respect the characters I'm not even remotely interested in going back.

Though I do like to skim plot summaries occasionally for fun. And I have to ask, what's with this Xmen vs. Avengers arc? Yes, Avengers has Hulk and Thor but I still don't see any reason to buff the X-men with the Phoenix Force just for a fair fight. Though that may be because I think of the Phoenix force as it was during the first dark phoenix arc: completely unstoppable.

[Selrahc]

The important thing to remember about comics is that most of it is rubbish... Getting overly attached to the characters is probably a bad idea. Having a "favorite character" just seems like asking for disaster, because time and time again good characters and concepts are done really ineptly. And the universe building as a whole is... slapdash and ill considered.

But the medium and the shared universe/superhero conceit does allow interesting ideas to be explored. There always seems to be an interesting series or two going on. There really is some talent in the comics industry. If you're willing to do a little digging into what is getting some good buzz at the moment.

I'm currently on a comics lull so I can't give out any reccomendations, but I doubt the state of the industry will have changed all that much since I was last actively buying them.

[Gamer Girl]

The important thing to remember about comics is that most of it is rubbish... Getting overly attached to the characters is probably a bad idea. Having a "favorite character" just seems like asking for disaster, because time and time again good characters and concepts are done really ineptly. And the universe building as a whole is... slapdash and ill considered.

But the medium and the shared universe/superhero conceit does allow interesting ideas to be explored. There always seems to be an interesting series or two going on. There really is some talent in the comics industry. If you're willing to do a little digging into what is getting some good buzz at the moment.


As A long time comics fan and reader, I can agree that most of the current comics from 2005 to present have been rubbish. And it's not like all the pre 2005 comics were perfect, some were rubbish. The real trick was: there was a mix of good, average and great comics. But today, it's like rubbish is king. today they just had any old writer/artist a book and say ''slap the name on the cover and make us some money''. So you pick up a comic named Wolverine but it's about just a random character in a random non-plot.

I used to like the shared universe idea. Back in the '90's. Back when editors and writers cared about characters and stories and continuity. It sure seems like someone was having oversight over each character to keep things right. So if writer X came over to do a story about Captain America, that story would add to the CA mega story, not be some crazy rubbish that can't be fit in even if you want to say ''oh Cap was having a bad day and he tripped''.

But today, you can't even get that. You can read ten issues where the main character lives at House Number One. Then in issue eleven they are in House Number Seven with no explanation. They can't even be bothered to add a line like ''oh I bought another house'' or add a panel that shows them moving. No, the new writer comes on with such hatred and contempt for the old writer that they just retroactively change things.

[Aotrs Commander]

I used to like the shared universe idea. Back in the '90's. Back when editors and writers cared about characters and stories and continuity. It sure seems like someone was having oversight over each character to keep things right. So if writer X came over to do a story about Captain America, that story would add to the CA mega story, not be some crazy rubbish that can't be fit in even if you want to say ''oh Cap was having a bad day and he tripped''.

But today, you can't even get that. You can read ten issues where the main character lives at House Number One. Then in issue eleven they are in House Number Seven with no explanation. They can't even be bothered to add a line like ''oh I bought another house'' or add a panel that shows them moving. No, the new writer comes on with such hatred and contempt for the old writer that they just retroactively change things.

I concur. To the point where the people in charge are actually preventing the writers that do care about some characters from actually writing them, preportedly (or at least it is implied as such).

While I have long been prepared to take the bad with the good, there seems to be steadily less good than bad. Honestly, for a while now, I have been seriously considering just stopping altogether (especially given the expense, and the fact that, because I no local comic store, I can't even try to follow all the big crossover events even if I wanted to). So, to some extent, I'm not that disappointed, as I've seen it coming for a while. I might hold on a little longer with stuff like Astonishing, and Wolverine, but they might be the last hold outs. (At least until Images Regeneration One finishes, because that recalls my real glory days, of the UK Transformers run I've sorely missed since 1991...! When that series finishes, I might well re-evaluate where I stand with the titles that remain.)

[TheEmerged]

The Red Lanterns' first arc... seemed to have some good ideas behind it, but had serious execution problems.

Zevox

Pun intended? :smallamused:

I'm still agnostic on a lot of the books I'm picking up. Count me on the list that liked the first 6 issues of the Aquaman run but I'm less excited about the 'Others' run.

Wonder Woman is a pretty good example of where I stand with the DC books right now. I like that they're doing some different things with the characters and I like this take on mythology.

"Why are you trusting the <bleep> of thieves?" I had a nerdgasm over that, thank you.

On the other hand, you can't get around the fact that they've been setting themselves up to show comic-code naked women and fetish scenarios either. I know a young girl interested in the character and there's no way in HADES (pun intended) I could let her read my issues right now. Yes, I'm perfectly aware of the character's history -- my first ever comic purchase was probably a WW comic in 1976.

RE: Before Watchman. Right now, the only one I can recommend is the MinuteMen one. It's actually good. A couple of the others have had their moments but... have devolved into the same 'excuse to show naked people' crap - except BW isn't bothering with the comic-code coverage.

RE: Marvel. The last time I had a Marvel book on my pull list was when Kang took over the world in Avengers... without it affecting any of the other books. I've picked up a few scattered issues involving characters I'm fond of (Modok, for example -- and stop laughing) but that's it.

[Fan]

That or sharks are really awesome. One of the two.

As for me, well, I was fortunate enough to borrow a collection of eighties X-men along with a good deal of classic and they were fantastic. However, until comic books get better writers who respect the characters I'm not even remotely interested in going back.

Though I do like to skim plot summaries occasionally for fun. And I have to ask, what's with this Xmen vs. Avengers arc? Yes, Avengers has Hulk and Thor but I still don't see any reason to buff the X-men with the Phoenix Force just for a fair fight. Though that may be because I think of the Phoenix force as it was during the first dark phoenix arc: completely unstoppable.

It's not The Phoenix Force. It's The Actual Phoenix.


Split into 5, and consolidated then into each of the 5 mutants and each falls.



Just as clarification, the reason the Phoenix force isn't used to stop everything as well as the energy comes directly from the life force of future generations, and the Phoenix is ENTIRELY the reason why new mutant generations haven't been born.

Thanks Jean Grey. Thanks a lot.

@The DC Argument:

I have actually been leafing through all the Justice League I can lately, I've hd a fierce hunger for it, and have just found the New 52 to click with me despite SEVERE bad first impressions.

Aquaman, is, and always has been a core member of the league. However his issue is that he can't operate off world, and that is why there is a problem with him being a member in my eyes. they need to go fight on Olympus? Superman is still Superman, Batman is still Batman, and as sure as the day is bright and the night is dark, Green Lantern is Green Lantern.

No one else has the issue of needing to be attached to a non cosmically present power source. Flash? He has the Speed Force. Superman? Can fly so fast that he can sundip for a solar recharge before anything even happens. Wonder Woman? Her strength is divinely provided. Batman? No powers to take away. Green Lantern? Designed for Galactic operation.

Aquaman can't even break orbit without suffering an immediate power downgrade, they need to go fight Darkseid on Apokalyps? You can bet that Aquaman is going to be on the home defense team.

[Zevox]

Pun intended? :smallamused:
...no, pun very much not intended. :smallsigh:

Zevox

[Avilan the Grey]

I used to like the shared universe idea. Back in the '90's. Back when editors and writers cared about characters and stories and continuity.

I don't know how old you are, but the 90ies was a horrible HORRIBLE dork age for superhero comics.

[Aotrs Commander]

I don't know how old you are, but the 90ies was a horrible HORRIBLE dork age for superhero comics.

I think the point Gamer Girl and I are making is that - for Marvel, at any rate - so is now. (Or at least it is rapidly getting that way.)

[Jayngfet]

I don't know how old you are, but the 90ies was a horrible HORRIBLE dork age for superhero comics.

It very much depends on the characters and the year for them, and the specific story arcs.

It's kind of weird to just say "every single thing from 1991 to 1999 is terrible".

I'd say he's actually right, given my (very) limited experience with the 90's to today. I mean look at Parallax then compared to now. Before it was, say what you like about the story, a more or less natural evolution of Hal as he'd been written in the years beforehand. It had a strong grounding in the concepts that'd come before(some over a *decade*before). It was consistent with how Jordan had acted and what he'd done.

Then Johns comes around and ruined that. Everything that was a conscious choice was turned into space-magic mind controlling him right down to the way he chose to wear his hair(he originally allowed himself to get grey with age to keep himself grounded). Just like that pretty much every Green Lantern story since Crisis was suddenly invalidated because SPACE DEMONS.

Then he changed the backstory of every single character he could, killed some major players to show how POWERFUL his new characters are, retconned out some of the best stories during that era. Literally everything since Crisis was suddenly called into question due to sloppy retcons.


This wasn't a one off occasion either. Look at how Quesada handled Spider-Man, or to a much lesser degree how Morrison handled Batman. While Fanboys have been running the business for years now, the industry has become small enough now that they can treat it like their own personal playground and do whatever they want because lets be honest, on a grand scale, nobody is watching. Even in this thread the bulk of people grew up with the animated series' and some haven't read comics in years. Young Justice as an animated series has consistently pulled about twenty times more people watching it than DC's top selling comic. DC and Marvel both have larger corporations to answer to, but those people can't be made to care about the comic's so this kind of thing is just going to keep happening until somebody makes them stop.

[Avilan the Grey]

I think the point Gamer Girl and I are making is that - for Marvel, at any rate - so is now. (Or at least it is rapidly getting that way.)

Oh I agree. I have been ranting about it in several posts here.

As for the 90ies... let's see: Rob Liefeld, guns guns guns everywhere, Rob Liefeld, dark and gritty, violence, guns, Rob Liefeld, Darker and Edgier, Spider Man Clone Saga, Blue Superman, Red Superman, Black Superman (costume), guns guns guns everywhere, etc.

[Gamer Girl]

I don't know how old you are, but the 90ies was a horrible HORRIBLE dork age for superhero comics.

I don't agree. Not for Marvel anyway.

You had the close knit continuity of the related titles, things in Thor effected the Avengers and the same with Captain America. You had the new '90's titles such as Ghost Rider, The New Warriors and the Guardians of the Galaxy. You had all the 'hard core' copy clones of all the popular books, but with more of an edge (X-force was the X-men with not whining and crying). And you had non standard books, like Doom 2099, about a villain, who did things like..well, you know, kill people(unlike say lame Wolverine who would so often pop out his claws, make a comment (''bub'') and then pop his claws back in and punch the person with his fist.

[Rake21]

They said in the ASM #693 editorial (amazing spider-mail) that Pete and MJ will be getting back together in the next 50 issues. Hopefully it will be like OMD never happened, except they won't married, yet.


Really? I should probably read those some time...

On that note, this might be the only time I'd be happy with a straight out retcon, though a well done epic story would be fine, too.

[Metahuman1]

I'm partial to Mephisto being forced to recton a lot of bargains in general he's made in the marvel U over the decades because some of the other cosmic scale beings got wind of him having some kinda weird cosmic scale chess game going and opted to just nip it in the bud for a change, and one of the things that get's re conned is One More Day, with the arguable exception that they still know MJ's Pregnant.

That way, we get the hole "Ok, ok, we blew it, we get it, were fixing it already!" effect, and it makes some sense given that I could see Beings Like Odin, Thanos, Eternity and Dormammu, just to literally pick high power names at random, being able to agree to force someone like Mephisto to stop doing something that breaks some rule beings of that level tend to adhere too, and being able to work with one another long enough to do it cause they've all got assorted personal reasons to want it done.

[TheEmerged]

Really? I should probably read those some time...

On that note, this might be the only time I'd be happy with a straight out retcon, though a well done epic story would be fine, too.

Dude, we're talking about 50 issues - 4 years. That's an eternity in modern comics.

disclaimer: not a spider-fan.

[Soras Teva Gee]

I'd say he's actually right, given my (very) limited experience with the 90's to today. I mean look at Parallax then compared to now. Before it was, say what you like about the story, a more or less natural evolution of Hal as he'd been written in the years beforehand. It had a strong grounding in the concepts that'd come before(some over a *decade*before). It was consistent with how Jordan had acted and what he'd done.

Then Johns comes around and ruined that. Everything that was a conscious choice was turned into space-magic mind controlling him right down to the way he chose to wear his hair(he originally allowed himself to get grey with age to keep himself grounded). Just like that pretty much every Green Lantern story since Crisis was suddenly invalidated because SPACE DEMONS.

At the same time without some morality out can a Parallax Hal Jordan be brought back as a headline hero

Let's face it the answer is no.

And there's still the open question that was before my time as a comic reader (sure I touched on it in the 90s but didn't read in earnest until my 20s) of whether it was from the same big picture meta-perspective the right idea to have Hal Jordan ever become Parallax to do away with the whole Corps and have Kyle be the only GL? I know my answer is that was no. Putting aside the story's own merits its just bad at a meta-level to do that to a mythos.

While admittedly it coincided with my starting reading comics in my 20s but I loved and still love all the Johns revamping era through at least the Sinestro Corps war. Less on Blackest Night but the color spectrum remains perhaps the awesomest way to retcon a lame old weakness ever. It punts the preceding decade out, but that's fine I like the Corps as a Corps. I've found I have nothing personal against Kyle, but I do not care from him as the only GL.

Then again I have exactly zero compunctions against taking continuity and feeding it into the wood chipper while laughing madly. Imagery being that grisly because that's how ruthless I am with it....


This wasn't a one off occasion either. Look at how Quesada handled Spider-Man, or to a much lesser degree how Morrison handled Batman. While Fanboys have been running the business for years now, the industry has become small enough now that they can treat it like their own personal playground and do whatever they want because lets be honest, on a grand scale, nobody is watching. Even in this thread the bulk of people grew up with the animated series' and some haven't read comics in years. Young Justice as an animated series has consistently pulled about twenty times more people watching it than DC's top selling comic. DC and Marvel both have larger corporations to answer to, but those people can't be made to care about the comic's so this kind of thing is just going to keep happening until somebody makes them stop.

....however I am not willing to just accept any excuse to throw out everything and why I gave up Marvel before DC was that DC provided me with decent (or at least acceptable) reasons to murder continuity and feed it into the chipper.

Some Marvel in particular has wholly lacked with things like One More Day. Parallax might not be good, but cripes it at least scans at a surface level.

However at another level you do have a point. Neither Quesada or Didio seemed to have a clue about their jobs or the universes they managed. While I find isolated books that are among the best things era's for characters, Marvel especially, I found it harder and harder to care about 616 and the DCU as a whole. At DC at least if there's no one cracking the whip as hard as they should and absolutely terrible cases like Countdown, I think at least more individual writers cared about the whole. There still has not been anything like a central core story though for years, just lurching wildly from BIG SUMMER EVENT to BIG SUMMER EVENT while pretending there is.

They're both so wrapped up in changing the status quo forever they never actually establish a new one before wiping it away. I can only feed so much continuity into the chipper.

[leafman]

Dude, we're talking about 50 issues - 4 years. That's an eternity in modern comics.

disclaimer: not a spider-fan.

Closer to 2 years since ASM is a bi-monthly, but they said maybe sooner than that. With the way things are going between them in comic right now, I can see it happening in the next 10-20 issues. I think it will depend on how Alpha is handled and what happens in issue 700.

[Jayngfet]

At the same time without some morality out can a Parallax Hal Jordan be brought back as a headline hero

Let's face it the answer is no.

And there's still the open question that was before my time as a comic reader (sure I touched on it in the 90s but didn't read in earnest until my 20s) of whether it was from the same big picture meta-perspective the right idea to have Hal Jordan ever become Parallax to do away with the whole Corps and have Kyle be the only GL? I know my answer is that was no. Putting aside the story's own merits its just bad at a meta-level to do that to a mythos.

While admittedly it coincided with my starting reading comics in my 20s but I loved and still love all the Johns revamping era through at least the Sinestro Corps war. Less on Blackest Night but the color spectrum remains perhaps the awesomest way to retcon a lame old weakness ever. It punts the preceding decade out, but that's fine I like the Corps as a Corps. I've found I have nothing personal against Kyle, but I do not care from him as the only GL.

Then again I have exactly zero compunctions against taking continuity and feeding it into the wood chipper while laughing madly. Imagery being that grisly because that's how ruthless I am with it....


The problem is that they already did absolve Hal and bring him back for about a year or so. The reason? Time Travel. There was this big long arc where Kyle goes to the past and teams up with Hal in his prime. Thanks to a time travel accident past Hal goes to the present and has adventures with the justice league again.

Obviously this absolves him because he hadn't actually done any of the things he did as Parallax. Or any of the weird relationship stuff with Arisa, or any of the weird country roaming stuff he did, or even get the grey hair that Johns hated.

It didn't last, because obviously if Hal was from the past he had to go back to do those things but it was a pretty major event.



....however I am not willing to just accept any excuse to throw out everything and why I gave up Marvel before DC was that DC provided me with decent (or at least acceptable) reasons to murder continuity and feed it into the chipper.

Some Marvel in particular has wholly lacked with things like One More Day. Parallax might not be good, but cripes it at least scans at a surface level.

However at another level you do have a point. Neither Quesada or Didio seemed to have a clue about their jobs or the universes they managed. While I find isolated books that are among the best things era's for characters, Marvel especially, I found it harder and harder to care about 616 and the DCU as a whole. At DC at least if there's no one cracking the whip as hard as they should and absolutely terrible cases like Countdown, I think at least more individual writers cared about the whole. There still has not been anything like a central core story though for years, just lurching wildly from BIG SUMMER EVENT to BIG SUMMER EVENT while pretending there is.

They're both so wrapped up in changing the status quo forever they never actually establish a new one before wiping it away. I can only feed so much continuity into the chipper.

DCU editorial currently has their own set of vendettas they're pushing in their own messed up way. I mean look at absolutley everything Batgirl. Cass and Steph aren't even allowed to exist in AU comics without being thrown out before they approve it at this point judging by the whole Nightwing fiasco.

The lack of big summer events would be great though, if every individual arc didn't feel like a BIG SUMMER EVENT at DC at the moment. Nobody gets to just like, punch bank robbers anymore. It's always GOTTA SAVE THE WORLD FROM THIS WEEKS CRAZY COSMIC HORROR. Which is terrible because apparently the universe went from five years ago there being no capes to every second Wednesday some cosmic force or evil army shows up.

[comicshorse]

They're both so wrapped up in changing the status quo forever they never actually establish a new one before wiping it away. I can only feed so much continuity into the chipper.

Absolutely, utterly, agree

[Soras Teva Gee]

It didn't last, because obviously if Hal was from the past he had to go back to do those things but it was a pretty major event.

Yeah, exactly why it doesn't exactly create a usable character as a story.



DCU editorial currently has their own set of vendettas they're pushing in their own messed up way. I mean look at absolutley everything Batgirl. Cass and Steph aren't even allowed to exist in AU comics without being thrown out before they approve it at this point judging by the whole Nightwing fiasco.

Oh I know its by no means immune. I simply have *hope* for the DCU which should not be confused with confidence.


The lack of big summer events would be great though, if every individual arc didn't feel like a BIG SUMMER EVENT at DC at the moment. Nobody gets to just like, punch bank robbers anymore. It's always GOTTA SAVE THE WORLD FROM THIS WEEKS CRAZY COSMIC HORROR. Which is terrible because apparently the universe went from five years ago there being no capes to every second Wednesday some cosmic force or evil army shows up.

I didn't get quite that from DC unless its new since I stopped reading.

I do feel a lack of punching bank robbers for which I blame the trades as nobody seems to be able to write a one-shot anymore.

[Jayngfet]

Yeah, exactly why it doesn't exactly create a usable character as a story.



Hal Jordan's story was, at that point, done. He'd had about thirty years of comics under his belt, left a successor and his backup had spawned his own solo series. He'd been there for forever and done all manner of crossovers and battles. He was neither the only green lantern at that point nor was it random.

Besides, they still *did* write Hal Jordan stories, it's just that they had to be flashbacks. They happened, just in a different context.


Oh I know its by no means immune. I simply have *hope* for the DCU which should not be confused with confidence.




I do feel a lack of punching bank robbers for which I blame the trades as nobody seems to be able to write a one-shot anymore.

The last single, self contained story was actually a month or two ago, but that's Batman and shouldn't count simply because Batman has issues to spare.

Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Green Lantern(as well as corps and red lanterns and new guardians), Superman, Teen Titans, Ravagers, and Superboy are all dealing with end-of-the-world scenario stuff.

I haven't read like a third of the new 52, or closer to half. Odds are there are plenty of other apocalypse plots I'm missing in addition to that.

[Jayngfet]

Soooo... It's Wednesday, and you know what that means...

New Comics!

Godzilla: The Half Century War is quite possibly the best new comic I've read in the last couple of years, and it's only on issue 2. James Stokoe is pretty much the best guy in the industry when it comes to weird monsters and making them seem serious while also being colorful and crazy. He's so great, I question your sanity for not buying all his stuff right now. What are you waiting for? GOGOGO!

Green Lantern: New Guardians continues to exemplify the problems with the New 52. I mean so Kyle had adventures in New York, and he had space adventures as the last lantern, and he knew Carol from before. Except that every second character he interacted with has been retconned out of existence so he couldn't possibly...

Justice League had a terrible issue 0. I mean, you can't just say "there are no people that good" around in a universe where Superman and Batman are well established as actually being that moral. It doesn't help that Billy has been pretty unlikable for most of his story so the idea of him being Captain Marvel leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Especially since just yesterday I got done watching Superman/Shazam!, which had a much, much better version of Billy Batson.

I also checked out the Young Justice comic tie in with the tv-show. That was ...something...barely...kinda... I mean it doesn't do all that much and the timeline transitions don't work all that well in comic format. It doesn't help that even the present stuff counts as a "prequel", so we already know where the story is going in addition to it going so very slowly.

[Zevox]

So, I got my copies of the Aquaman and Firestorm trades.

Aquaman, I liked.
I know some people here have remarked that it doesn't make sense for people to treat Aquaman the way they do in-universe, but I'm fine with it. Aquaman has that image problem, after all, and what better way to address it than directly, by giving him that same problem within his own world? And since the point of the reboot was to bring in new readers, this was the logical time to do it - plus it makes more sense that it could come about in-world since the reboot is supposedly set only five years after superheroes became active in the world at large. The only part that stretched it for me was that government agent condescending to Aquaman after he and Mera drove off the Trench - because who talks like that to someone who just played a major role in saving their life?

The action was quite good, so I enjoyed those parts a lot. I was a bit disappointed that the Trench creatures, which initial advertising for the book was building up to be a major threat, were really just simple monsters who set up the next arc by making their home in that old pre-sinking Atlantean ship. I am interested in where the story goes from here, though, which means I'm considering continuing to follow these trades.

Also, I loved that there was a whole issue devoted just to Mera. As I said before, I'm actually more interested in her than her husband, and this trade didn't change that. It was a bit awkward in the grocery store scene when she broke that man's arm and did some major damage in a show of force when faced with the police, but it works for the kind of character arc they seem to be going for with her. And I loved the part where she stopped the guy by drawing the water out of him - so nice to see some effective and creative use of her waterbending powers like that.

Firestorm, I didn't like.
First off, right from the start, the story gets stupid very fast. I don't care what kind of secret organization you work for, you can't go around torturing and killing everyone you ever come across and blowing up every building you set foot in without drawing attention to yourself.

The story doesn't really get much better from there, or do much to catch my interest. I mean, Professor Stein just gave that bottle that would turn someone into a Firestorm to Jason and three other High School students, and Jason just kept it in his locker at school? Really? That's what you're going with for the character's origin? And the secret organization never gets less stupid, everyone's goals are unclear at best, Jason's would-be girlfriend somehow survives getting show in the head*, there's zero explanation for that "Fury" Firestorm that Jason and Ronnie can fuse into... the whole story just seems to be a mess to me. After six issues, you'd think there'd be some kind of coherent narrative that would've emerged, but no, not really.

*By the by, the scene where he save her life? They show him transmuting a bullet, even though the doctors said they removed the bullet and what was threatening her now were shards of bone from her skull.

Second, the characters. Jason is a jackass, Ronnie alternates between being dumb and and being a jackass (although less of one than Jason, and at his best he seems okay I guess), and they constantly bicker and fight in ways that I just cannot sympathize with. So, yeah, so much for the characters I found myself liking in Brightest Day. The villain woman has a sympathetic enough backstory I guess, but it's not used in a way that makes her any less awful or more understandable now, given what her organization is doing. The Russian Firestorm, Pohzar, might have some potential, but he seems rather ruthless, and he's not worth sticking with the book for. Nobody else got enough development for me to even remember their name.

I don't like the designs for the new Firestorms, either. For Jason and Ronnie individually it's not that bad, though the all-yellow one on Jason looks rather awkward to me for some reason, but the fused version? Ugh. It's like they put a zombie Hulk in a Firestorm costume.

The best that I can say is that some of the action was good - Jason put his powers to some creative use at times. Ronnie, not so much, but that's his character I guess.

So yeah, I won't be following this one.
Zevox