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Chainsaw Hobbit
2012-09-21, 04:52 PM
This is the place to discuss the new series of monster competitions.

Into the Labyrinth. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13935684#post13935684)

Tanuki Tales
2012-09-21, 05:07 PM
I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor!

I'll be adding a link to my contest directing 3.5 'brewers in your direction once I get a chance. :smallbiggrin:

Chainsaw Hobbit
2012-09-21, 05:10 PM
I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor!

I'll be adding a link to my contest directing 3.5 'brewers in your direction once I get a chance. :smallbiggrin:

Thank you, sir!

The Tygre
2012-09-21, 05:29 PM
To the end of the month? This is a speed trial!

That means http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MMktOjbXqmY/0.jpg

Chainsaw Hobbit
2012-09-21, 05:57 PM
To the end of the month? This is a speed trial!

That means http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MMktOjbXqmY/0.jpg

We have more than a month. I am giving everyone until the end of next month.

Milo v3
2012-09-21, 08:14 PM
I'll probably make something for this.

The Tygre
2012-09-22, 02:29 AM
We have more than a month. I am giving everyone until the end of next month.

Ah, but I was looking forward to speed trial.

Oh well. Guess I can upgrade that Olm Drake to an Olm Dragon.

Debihuman
2012-09-22, 08:39 AM
The newer format is actually harder to review than the old original 3.5 stat block used in the SRD. That's why the older contests kept that format. I don't object to people using the newer stat block, but we'll probably be seeing more errors as a result.

Just my 2 cents.

I'm a grognard but I'll learn the new format eventually.

Debby

sirpercival
2012-09-22, 08:41 AM
I'm working on something.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2012-09-22, 11:03 AM
The newer format is actually harder to review than the old original 3.5 stat block used in the SRD. That's why the older contests kept that format. I don't object to people using the newer stat block, but we'll probably be seeing more errors as a result.

Just my 2 cents.

Completely agreed. *dislikes the new format intensely*

dspeyer
2012-09-22, 11:04 AM
If SRD-style is allowed, I'll drop a link to my monster builder (http://age-of-warriors.appspot.com/static/monsters/monster_builder.html). It takes care of a lot of the fiddly details (granted, not all of them) and I've found it useful when brewing monsters.

Chainsaw Hobbit
2012-09-22, 11:07 AM
Completely agreed. *dislikes the new format intensely*

What don't you like about the newer format? I find it to be much easier to use when running the game.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2012-09-22, 11:17 AM
What don't you like about the newer format? I find it to be much easier to use when running the game.

I dislike it because the change doesn't actually particularly improve anything: it makes it *mildly* faster, perhaps, but that's invalidated by the fact that almost all players (and most 3.5 material) use/are used to the old format. The old format, after all, is in the vast, vast majority of 3.5 books.

Most homebrew ALSO uses the old format, and so 3.5 players are, in general, more used to seeing it. As such, I can't really stand the new format, as I see no advantages to using it over the one most players are familiar with.

Chainsaw Hobbit
2012-09-22, 11:21 AM
I dislike it because the change doesn't actually particularly improve anything: it makes it *mildly* faster, perhaps, but that's invalidated by the fact that almost all players (and most 3.5 material) use/are used to the old format. The old format, after all, is in the vast, vast majority of 3.5 books.

Most homebrew ALSO uses the old format, and so 3.5 players are, in general, more used to seeing it. As such, I can't really stand the new format, as I see no advantages to using it over the one most players are familiar with.

Pathfinder uses the new format, taken slightly further. Because of that, I think a lot of people would be familiar with it.

The fact that Pathfinder uses it could also say something about its quality.

Debihuman
2012-09-22, 11:38 AM
I think I can speak to this: The older format is actually better for critiquing a monster. I can see all the math that is relevant line by line and so I notice an error. It has nothing to do with what's easier for the DM.

What a DM needs from a monster stat block is different from what someone judging a homebrew needs.

I want to see skills in one place so I can scan the math used. If one skill is at the top of the stat block but other skills are lower it doesn't help me.

I want to see Attack lines spelled out so I can tell if modifiers are missing.

I want to see ALL the special abilities in one line so I can judge what's missing (if they are scattered it is harder to keep track).

At its core 3.5 is math-based. HD relates to Feats, Ability modifiers affect saves, etc. When I'm analyzing a creature, it's a lot easier to judge when each line is broken down.

This is why we fought so hard to keep the 3.5 format for contests. It makes it easier on US (and since I was critiquing almost every monster anything that sped up that process what a HUGE boon).

Debby

Cheesy74
2012-09-25, 04:14 PM
Got a fairly unique idea for a monster - currently working on making it less of a headache for DMs to use, but I'm looking forward to statting it out.

Debihuman
2012-09-26, 01:37 AM
Hi Cheesy, I'm looking over your ooze now. It could use a little improvement but you've done a pretty good job with it so far.

Here is the corrected stat block as per my changes (and accounting for some proofreading).

Note that creatures generally increase in size when they double their HD.

Also, it was missing touch and flat-footed AC.

Space and reach are based on a creature's size. It has reach due to its tentacle.

Due to the acid it secretes, it probably doesn't have any treasure.

Speed is only an indication of how fast it moves not its method of moving. That belongs in description.

Mindless creatures have no feats and skills.

Getting to Special Abilities:

Wallhugger is lacking a few game mechanics. Most of the text from wallhugger ability is fluff and should be in the monster description.

Rather than tying to explain how they move (it should be rather clear that they don't break apart when they move), explain how the movement affects game mechanics.

One thing that helps is to look at other oozes to see how they work. I would break up like this:

Amorphous (Ex): A deep sludge in its natural form has immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, polymorph, and stunning effects. It is not subject to critical hits and, having no clear front or back, cannot be flanked.

Wallhugger (Ex): Since a deep sludge must maintain contact with a solid surface at all times, it cannot be tripped or bull rushed.

Don't reinvent the wheel. Many oozes have acid attacks and so you should follow the standard format. Rename it Acid. The DC is 10 + 1/2 monsters HD + ability modifier (seems like it should be Con). DC is 10 +8 + 5 (DC 23)

Constrict should be listed in Special Attacks too.

Acid (Ex): Deep sludges constantly exude an extremely acidic substance that acts as a neurotoxin to anything it contacts. Any enemy damaged by a deep sludge's tentacle or constrict attack takes an additional 1d6 points of acid damage and must make a DC 23 Fortitude save or be stunned for 1d4 rounds. The save is constitution-based.

1d10 doses of this toxin may be harvested from a dead deep sludge (+1d10 per size category above Medium), usable as a contact poison worth 150 gp per dose.

Constrict (Ex): On a successful grapple, a deep sludge deals 2d6+12 plus 1d6 acid damage.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a deep sludge must hit with its tentacle attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.

Sticky (Ex): The substance secreted by deep sludges is not only toxic, but extremely adhesive. A deep sludge may initiate a free grapple attempt against any creature that enters a square it occupies or attacks it with a natural weapon, and a free disarm attempt against any manufactured weapon used to strike it.

Here is how it would look all put together.Feel free to make additional changes or to delete anything I've done.


Deep Sludge
Medium Ooze
Hit Dice: 16d10+80 (168 hp)
Initiative: -4
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 18 (+12 natural, -4 Dex), touch 6, flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+20
Attack: Tentacle +20 melee (2d6+12 plus 1d6 acid)
Full Attack: Tentacle +20 melee (2d6+12 plus 1d6 acid)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 (10 ft. with tentacle)
Special Attacks: Acid, Constrict (2d6+12 plus 1d6 acid), Improved Grab
Special Qualities: Amorphous, DR 10/slashing, Sticky, Wallhugger
Saves: Fort +10, Ref +1, Will +3
Abilities: Str 26, Dex 2, Con 20, Int -, Wis 6, Cha 1
Skills:
Feats:
Environment: Underground caverns
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 9
Treasure: None
Alignment: Neutral
Advancement: 17-32 (Large)
Level Adjustment:

Deep Sludges make their home on walls, floors, and ceilings. They are, rather than the spherical, puddle-like shape of most oozes, completely flat and spread out across a large area. Deep Sludges must maintain contact with a solid surface at all times.

Acid (Ex): Deep sludges constantly exude an extremely acidic substance that acts as a neurotoxin to anything it contacts. Any enemy damaged by a deep sludge's tentacle or constrict attack takes an additional 1d6 points of acid damage and must make a DC 23 Fortitude save or be stunned for 1d4 rounds. The save is constitution-based.

1d10 doses of this neurotoxin may be harvested from a dead deep sludge (+1d10 per size category above Medium), usable as a contact poison worth 150 gp per dose.

Amorphous (Ex): A deep sludge in its natural form has immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, polymorph, and stunning effects. It is not subject to critical hits and, having no clear front or back, cannot be flanked.

Constrict (Ex): On a successful grapple, a deep sludge deals 2d6+12 plus 1d6 acid damage.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a deep sludge must hit with its tentacle attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.

Sticky (Ex): The substance secreted by deep sludges is not only toxic, but extremely adhesive. A deep sludge may initiate a free grapple attempt against any creature that enters a square it occupies or attacks it with a natural weapon, and a free disarm attempt against any manufactured weapon used to strike it.

Wallhugger (Ex): Since a deep sludge must maintain contact with a solid surface at all times, it cannot be tripped or bull rushed.


Hope this was helpful.

Debby

Cheesy74
2012-09-26, 11:09 AM
My main issue is illustrating the fact that it's amorphous, but I agree that its movement shouldn't be described in an ability if I can help it. Instead, I'm going to do this:

Space is normal for a creature of its size, but it receives a number of "covering" squares based on its size that it also counts as occupying for purposes of reach/threatened squares as well as its stickiness ability. Its body moves according to normal 3.5 rules, but it can reassign its covering squares into a new contiguous pattern around its "center" after each movement. It'd be something like:

Medium: 4 covering squares
Large: 9 covering squares
Huge: 16 covering squares
Gargantuan: 25 covering squares

I just need to figure out how to format that as an actual rules-based entry. I'll handle that later today.

I also want its basic form to be lower in power - 16 hd is kinda huge for something so small, since oozes generally become more powerful based on size.

Debihuman
2012-09-27, 06:58 AM
Most of us know how to run oozes and so you don't have to illustrate how it is amorphous. Many oozes are amorphous. Since the tentacle can come from anywhere on the creature (though it can have only one at a time) it threatens in a 10-foot range around it. That is apparent from the stat block. That is why it has Reach 5 ft. (10 ft. with tentacle). I think you are over thinking this creature.

If you change HD, don't forget to change all the things that are dependent on it (BAB/Grapple/DCs/etc.).

Debby

Cheesy74
2012-09-27, 07:45 AM
The idea for the covering squares isn't really meant to simulate amorphousness like other oozes - I'm well aware of the standard way oozes are run. This is meant to represent the fact that deep oozes can stretch themselves out further than most. I'll see if I can draw a diagram, but these squares extend beyond the ooze's standard form in any configuration they'd like - coupled with its other abilities I think this'll make for a more unique encounter than most oozes. Take it away and it's painfully generic.

I always take the math into account when I reduce HD, but thanks for the reminder.

DracoDei
2012-10-06, 08:05 AM
The idea for the covering squares isn't really meant to simulate amorphousness like other oozes - I'm well aware of the standard way oozes are run. This is meant to represent the fact that deep oozes can stretch themselves out further than most. I'll see if I can draw a diagram, but these squares extend beyond the ooze's standard form in any configuration they'd like - coupled with its other abilities I think this'll make for a more unique encounter than most oozes. Take it away and it's painfully generic.

I always take the math into account when I reduce HD, but thanks for the reminder.
Look at the rules for swarms and I think you may get some ideas of how to phrase it.

I agree with what you are saying about how its Space shouldn't have to be a square/cube.