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Visivicous
2012-09-29, 03:41 PM
A World of Warcraft pen & paper rpg was not my first choice. I threw a bunch of ideas at my friends, and some were fine with standard 3.5, some with Pathfinder, one with standard 4E, and two with Whitewolf's Vampire. But no matter what game system or setting, I had too few people to start a game. Until someone brought up WoW, which they all agreed to.

So, now I find myself setting up and getting things ready to DM a Warcraft game using the Pathfinder rules (though I may switch to 4E for painfully obvious reasons).

I checked out the Sword and Sorcery World of Warcraft RPG book, and was terribly disappointed. Now, I never was an avid player of WoW, but even I could recognize that the classes presented in this book took little-to-nothing from the video game (mostly they just re-named stuff).

After discussing the problem with some of my players, I decided to homebrew some d20 WoW style classes, starting with the Paladin. The result is nowhere near balanced with any standard base class, but from the start I knew that's how it would be.

So, here is what I've done:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B4f_X0_dIiLwZEpneXFfQy1YTnM

Starbuck_II
2012-09-29, 09:20 PM
Biggest balance issue is mana cost/refreshing.
Refreshing changes landscape if every caster can cast all day by resting a minute.
It means cures every minute.

PF removed Cure Minor wounds (3.5 cantrip), but you added back at wills/all day?

Reckoning has no save seems too strong in game format. D&D/PF has saves.

I think normal Paladin spells would help it be closer to balanced (though stronger than PF Pally)

Visivicous
2012-09-30, 08:30 AM
In order to capture the feel of the MMO I felt that using Mana was essential. I have not played WoW in quite some time, but I recall that Mana replenished fairly quickly. Of course using this mechanic in a game where other spellcasters don't have Mana would be ridiculous, that's why I am looking at converted all of the WoW classes. The goal is to have these classes balanced against each other, not against standard or core classes.

I'm not sure what you mean about Cure Minor wounds. I based this Paladins healing spells on the Pathfinder Cleric's, reflavoured for a WoW feel. I did reduce the healing spells by one die level (d8 became d6) because the Paladin is not primarily a healer (unless spec'd to be, which I have not implemented anything like WoW's specs yet, though I might through some custom feats.).

I realize that Reckoning is OP, but from what I recall from playing WoW, it almost never misses. I think certain bosses could resist it, which is why I put in the CR limit.

Thanks for the feedback.

GolemsVoice
2012-09-30, 09:00 AM
Keep in mind that all my critique comes from my experience with D&D 3.5, not PF, so feel free to correct/disregard me when I get something wrong with the editions.


From a quick look: Retribution aura seems kinda weak. Numerical damage, at least of that height, becomes nearly trivial at higher levels. Although I realize that it's hard to belance damage that happens almost every round and HAS to be taken if enemy melee fighters want to be effective.

Concentration aura: Anybody who actually bothers WILL have concentration so high that this aura will likely be not very helpful. Why not make it like in the Pen&Paper and give it a chance to restore a spell slot/mana point, with the likelyhood based on the level of the spell (higher level spells are harder to replenish, so as to stop casters from just spamming high-level spells)

Judgement of Wisdom: Too strong, sadly. A 20th level Paladin has 32 mana points, and he could easily deal 60 damage a round, meaning nearly infinte mana. Cast - Attack - Cast. Unless that's what you intended :smallbiggrin: It also makes divine plea less special, because DP is just a watered down version of Judgement of Wisdom


Apart from that I really like what you've done, the WoW paladin is easily recognizable there. Let me know how it actually plays!


EDIT: you forget an "of" in Hammer of Wrath. Also, how much MP does each spell cost? Is that missing or have I missed it?

Visivicous
2012-09-30, 10:01 AM
The Auras are meant to be weak. I've always thought of them as a 'nudge' toward effectiveness, but not truly necessary. In WoW, only one Aura may be active at a time. To make the Auras more useful in D&D, I've given this Paladin the ability to have three active once a high level is reached.

As for Concentration, there is no Concentration Skill in Pathfinder. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic#TOC-Concentration
Basically "you roll d20 and add your caster level and the ability score modifier used to determine bonus spells of the same type." In light of that, I'm not really sure if the Concentration Aura will make a significant difference, though it could on a bad roll?

The Judgments probably need to be rebalanced. I started with them when I made this homebrew, since they were an iconic feature of the WoW Paladin class. As for Divine Plea, it is mostly meant to be used as a last ditch effort. I do recall from playing WoW that as a Protection Paladin, I never ran out of Mana unless I was spamming some heal spells (which should not happen in a good group).

The Mana Point cost of spells I have not written up yet. I figured that I would wait until I had converted over the Mage class. The cost may end up being 1 point per spell level, or something closer to psionic power point usage.

After writing this up I am considering doing a 4th edition version. If that seems easier to do, and seems like it would work better, then I'll probably give up the Pathfinder stuff. I would think that 4th edition should be easier, since it kinda resembles an MMO mindset (4e fans, please do not flame me for this comment).

LordErebus12
2012-09-30, 11:22 AM
I think normal Paladin spells would help it be closer to balanced (though stronger than PF Pally)

I disagree, the Paladin is a better caster overall in pathfinder, the spell list might be smaller, but the mercies that the PF paladin has makes it better than the standard 3.5 version. 3.5 might have more spells, but the overall balance is all messed up.

Fecar
2012-10-02, 07:54 AM
I am also looking at starting a WoW campaign and was interested in what you had put together. My plan is to play in 4E because it has features which better support the feel I am going for: the action economy (standard, move, minor), the power frequency (at will, encounter, daily) and the fact the game was designed to remove a lot of the linear warrior, quadradic wizard. The 4E monster design is also a lot nicer for this, I think. I suspect I will just find monsters of the right level and role and just rename/refluff them, giving new powers if needed.

Wish I could provide a nice document like you have but I am not that far. At this point, all I have are a few notes on what I want to do, some of which I put here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13847790&postcount=10).

Some notes I have:

Make new races, based on the essentials version of the human, replacing the human racial encounter power with one unique for each WoW race. This will mean ignoring published racial feats and possibly having to make my own.
What version of WoW will it be based on since a lot of mechanics were added, changed or removed over the patches, along with class design.
I am considering making new classes, often one for each spec since an arms warrior is different from a protection warrior. If I make new classes then I will have to look at each WoW class and pick out the things that make it unique and add features and powers to give the conversion that same feel.
If I do not make new classes, I have to get the players come up with their own analogies. This might mean having to give the character a bonus feat or feature to cover the gap(s), ie chain armour prof on a sorc to make it closer to an elemental shaman.
How will dungeons work, will encounters involve "pulling mobs" consisting of a bunch of minons and a couple normal monsters? Clearing a dungeon should not be a multi-session thing, the players should be able to get through most of them in 2-3 hours tops. Perhaps a dungeon consists of only a couple enounters that are a few waves of minons and an elite representing trash packs and a boss.
What levels will the players be playing and what WoW content will they be exploring? If they are going to be playing in the Burning Crusade content, I do not need to start them at level 1 in Durotar. What will max level be? They can start at level 1 in WotLK zones and play to level 10, killing the Liche King as their final objective.

Fecar
2012-10-02, 09:09 AM
Overall this looks really good to me, using mana instead of spells per day gives the WoW feel of gameplay. All the major abilities are covered from the WoW paladin.

Couple quick things:

Beginning at 1st level, a Paladin gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells which are drawn from the paladin spell list. A Paladin knows all of the spells on her list.

To cast a spell, a Paladin must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. Paladins also require a Divine Focus to cast spells (most often part of the Paladinís weapon or shield). The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Paladin's spell is 10 + the spell level + the Paladin's Charisma modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a Paladinís ability to cast spells is limited to her available Mana Points. Her base daily allotment of Mana Points is given on Table: Paladin. In addition, she receives bonus Mana Points per day equal to her Charisma Modifier multiplied by Ĺ of her Paladin level (rounded down to the nearest whole number, minimum of 1).

A Paladin regains a number of Mana Points per minute (10 rounds) equal to her Charisma Modifier.

A Paladin has a caster level equal to her Paladin levels.
It may be an oversight but I would suggest changing the Wisdom requirement to a Charisma requirement for spell level. Everything else looks like you are going for a pathfinder style strength-charisma paladin as your base.


Divine Grace (Su)

At 2nd level, a Paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma modifier (if any) on all Saving Throws.
This feels like a left over from the DnD/PF paladin that does not show up in WoW. Maybe replace this with the bubble/shield, (I think its called divine protection now??).


Judgement of Wisdom as you wrote it seems too strong and having to roll additional dice with every attack to see if you restore mana and calculating that from 1/2 damage done may slow the game down. Perhaps every attack restores mana equal to your level, 1/2 your level, charisma mod or 10% your total mana? Making it a set amount that doesnt change with every swing would keep some of the math down.

As per the pdf, a level 11 paladin with charisma mod of +6 has (level 10 = base 14) + (cha mod 6 x 1/2 level) 47 mana. One half level is 5 mana, cha mod is 6 mana, 10% total is 4 mana.

Compared to divine plea at level 11 would restore 11 mana for a full round action.