View Full Version : Tell Me About The Kingkiller Chronicle
Chainsaw Hobbit
2012-10-16, 05:57 PM
My mother, who normally doesn't like fantasy at all, has recently become nigh-obsessed with the Kingkiller Chronicle. I know little about it, other than that it is fantasy-themed and unfinished. I'm thinking about reading it myself.
Could you give me a run-down?
Mewtarthio
2012-10-16, 06:49 PM
It doesn't have much to say, but it says it really well. The framing device is that the world's most loved and hated person, who has gone to ground under a false identity, is telling the story of his life, and it turns out that he's pretty much a consummate storyteller. The best I can say is to give the first few chapter a read, long enough to get a feel for Kvothe's narration style. If you don't like the book's prose, then it's pretty much standard fantasy fare.
Marillion
2012-10-16, 09:18 PM
Yes, it is extremely well written. It's evocative, and it draws very well on storytelling devices. Plus, he describes music the way I've always wanted to describe music.
Wyntonian
2012-10-16, 10:34 PM
It's one of those books that's not good because of the premise, but because of how it's written.
I mean, yeah, the premise is cool-ish, good worldbuilding, interesting characterization to a fault, neat magic system, whatever. Take it or leave it. Little trope-laden, but that's only really notable because of the lack of genre-savviness. If
But the storytelling?
It's like listening to a symphony, perfectly aligned, organized and beautiful. It's like hearing your child's laughter, natural and spontaneous, full of joy and eminently alive. It's like the first time you really let loose in a footrace, finding your connection with a higher order of life in the pain and exhilaration of the last 400, when you discovered that once you strip away the skin of civilization that, like in bullet wounds and ***********, there are no secrets. It's like bacon, really really yummy.
It honestly surpasses Hemingway and Fitzgerald, Twain, Whitman and Ginsberg, in my opinion, in the sheer beauty of storytelling.
Aran nu tasar
2012-10-19, 02:35 PM
I pretty much agree with what everybody else has said. When viewed objectively, the story pretty standard, the characters fairly one-dimensional, and the hero is a textbook Mary Sue. At times I wanted to smack him. It is impossible to view it objectively, however, because of the quality of the writing. When Rothfuss decides to write, he doesn't mess around. It was weeks after reading it that I was able to look back and realize that the plot was nothing special, and I didn't really care. I wouldn't call it bacon-caliber, but it is very good, and incredibly enjoyable to read.
In addition, the magic system is wonderful. It is logical and consistent, and makes a lot more sense than many other books; magical abilities are always explained, not just handwaved.
Weezer
2012-10-19, 05:24 PM
Agree again with everyone. The plot is good, if standard, fantasy fare (your standard genius, downtrodden child goes off to wizard school and then fights evil things, with a few twists). It has an interesting world, with a well thought out history (if one containing a few obvious rips from real history), some well done characters and an engaging plot, but all together nothing amazing. However the prose is some of the best, and definitely the most lyrical, prose I've ever encountered in fantasy. The series has its issues, but the prose has made it one of my favorite books to reread. It is definitely one of those books I feel any fantasy (or even reader in general) lover must read.
Oh and how could I forget the magic. It's hands down the best magic system I've come across. Complex yet internally consistent, versatile and powerful but yet doesn't overwhelm the plot by being over powered. It's very obviously written by someone who has done a lot of hands on engineering stuff (Rothfuss was a chem engineering student before switching and still does basement chem in his, well, basement), or at least has that kind of mind. One of the highlights of the series is its clever uses.
Somebloke
2012-10-20, 10:38 AM
Have to agree with all that's been outlined here. The hero especially should be a Mary Sue, but is genuinely likeable, believably struggles and can make extremely stupid decisions that have nasty consequences.
As someone once pointed out, a Mary Sue is when the author fantasizes about being the character. An escapist character, like Kvoth, is where the audience wants to be the character.
Mewtarthio
2012-10-20, 03:03 PM
It's the framing device that really keeps Kvothe from being a Mary Sue. For one thing, it's Kvothe telling the story, so of course he's going to come off as awesome at everything. More importantly, we know the story's going to end with "the patient, cut-flower sound of a man who is waiting to die," and all of Kvothe's accomplishments are colored in that light.
Reverent-One
2012-10-21, 05:07 PM
It's the framing device that really keeps Kvothe from being a Mary Sue. For one thing, it's Kvothe telling the story, so of course he's going to come off as awesome at everything.
I greatly disagree, from the framing device, we learn that he's telling the real story, the true story. Having him exaggerate his actions/abilties would be be a major blow to the point of the framing device, as well as out-of-character for Kvothe as the narrator, since he's doesn't exactly look on his past that positively. He also has no problem talking about his flaws and all the mistakes he's made. This is also why I don't find Kvothe a Mary Sue, for all his talent, he causes too many of his own problems.
Mega420
2013-07-07, 02:35 PM
This series is rich,complex and beautifully written. With each reread you begin to appreciate how the author has used foreshadowing so subtly, and how things said in the first few pages make connections 1,500 pages later! The main character is someone that you really know you should dislike on principal but you cant help but root for! must read and a definite reread!
Infernally Clay
2013-07-07, 03:41 PM
Rothfuss is a poet and it shows in the way the books are written. Kvothe himself is portrayed as a bit of a Mary Sue that always happens to be in the right place at the right time, but we know he has made some terrible mistakes, that many things about his "legend" have been greatly exaggerated and that he is himself pretty unreliable as far as retelling his story is concerned.
It's actually a pretty amazing pair of books so far so your mother has crazy awesome taste.
123456789blaaa
2013-07-07, 04:02 PM
Let's see...I enjoyed the first book despite a few flaws because of all the good stuff listed here. However, I really really disliked the second book. I thought it was really really terrible and a bad omen for the future of the series. This article (http://ferretbrain.com/articles/article-751?mobile)sums up most of my complaints quite well (though I'd probably try to be a little less caustic).
Kitten Champion
2013-07-07, 05:02 PM
Let's see...I enjoyed the first book despite of a few flaws because of all the good stuff listed here. However, I really really disliked the second book. I thought it was really really terrible and a bad omen for the future of the series. This article (http://ferretbrain.com/articles/article-751?mobile)sums up most of my complaints quite well (though I'd probably try to be a little less caustic).
I agree with most of this link's points. I liked a great deal about Rothfuss' prose, style, and even some of his world-building in The Name of the Wind. However, if Kvothe was genuinely telling this story to me I'd be thoroughly annoyed starting a little after the time he reaches university. I keep expecting something meaningful to happen, given all the expert foreshadowing and suggestions, and it just keeps getting tugged along. Like that prank where you put a dollar bill on the end of a fishing wire and lure people into chasing it.
I wasn't as annoyed with it compared to some fantasy epics I could mention, mostly because all the stuff he includes suggests something about the story-teller - including the Mary Sue-ish elements which I took for a degree of arrogance certain ambitious people have - and we are moving forwards in this chronology of his life in drips and drabs.
Melayl
2013-07-07, 07:10 PM
I liked the novels. I would disagree a bit with the Mary Sue categorization, however. At least half the time we see Kvothe succeeding, it is through luck or the intervention of others. He also causes many of his own problems, as has been mentioned.
Eurus
2013-07-07, 07:18 PM
I liked the novels. I would disagree a bit with the Mary Sue categorization, however. At least half the time we see Kvothe succeeding, it is through luck or the intervention of others. He also causes many of his own problems, as has been mentioned.
I think that criticism comes partly from the fact that, as mentioned in the linked article, a significant portion of the books -- or even the entirety, depending on how you slice it -- is basically "the story of how Kvothe became so awesome". Felurian (oh gods Felurian) and the Adem are probably the most egregious examples.
And it really does meander so damn much. It's written very well, and I actually enjoyed reading it, but after it was done I kind of went "...so that's it?" The actual "plot", so to speak, is intersected with only briefly here and there, and it's mostly this guy telling a story about his life and how he became the most awesome person in the entire world, despite a combination of horrific misfortune and generally poor judgment.
Again, I actually rather enjoyed both books, and consider them pretty good. Better than quite a bit of the fantasy out there, anyway. They just kind of require the right mindset and expectations.
Chainsaw Hobbit
2013-07-07, 08:01 PM
I read the books. Twice each. Not bad at all. Waiting for the third book will hurt me.
The writing quality and pacing were kind of inconsistent, and I found the love interest obnoxious, but there were mostly pretty great. Especially The Wise Man's Fear.
Kitten Champion
2013-07-07, 08:18 PM
I read the books. Twice each. Not bad at all. Waiting for the third book will hurt me.
The writing quality and pacing were kind of inconsistent, and I found the love interest obnoxious, but there were mostly pretty great. Especially The Wise Man's Fear.
Wait, why'd you start this thread then?
Weezer
2013-07-07, 08:22 PM
Wait, why'd you start this thread then?
It was started 9 months ago, plenty of time to read it.
Kitten Champion
2013-07-07, 08:23 PM
Oh, never pay attention to dates. Mega420 necro'd it apparently.
Eurus
2013-07-07, 08:28 PM
Hahaha, I totally didn't notice that either. Oops.
thubby
2013-07-08, 03:17 AM
I read the books. Twice each. Not bad at all. Waiting for the third book will hurt me.
The writing quality and pacing were kind of inconsistent, and I found the love interest obnoxious, but there were mostly pretty great. Especially The Wise Man's Fear.
whatever you feel about her, i assure you there are women in the world exactly like her.
Mx.Silver
2013-07-08, 07:36 AM
whatever you feel about her, i assure you there are women in the world exactly like her.
I don't think the complaint about obnoxious characters is that they're unrealistic, so much as it is that they're obnoxious.
Weezer
2013-07-08, 12:22 PM
whatever you feel about her, i assure you there are women in the world exactly like her.
While that's true, that doesn't mean I find it enjoyable to read about them or find them any less obnoxious on the page than I find them in real life.
warty goblin
2013-07-08, 12:44 PM
Let's see...I enjoyed the first book despite a few flaws because of all the good stuff listed here. However, I really really disliked the second book. I thought it was really really terrible and a bad omen for the future of the series. This article (http://ferretbrain.com/articles/article-751?mobile)sums up most of my complaints quite well (though I'd probably try to be a little less caustic).
Yeah, I read that - and in my experience my tastes line up reasonably well with the author's - and my already minimal desire to wade through another multi-volume epic pretty much evaporated. The whole thing just sounded like an exercise in bad nerdity.
Chainsaw Hobbit
2013-07-08, 01:04 PM
whatever you feel about her, i assure you there are women in the world exactly like her.
And they annoy me.
Piggy Knowles
2013-07-25, 10:15 PM
I think that criticism comes partly from the fact that, as mentioned in the linked article, a significant portion of the books -- or even the entirety, depending on how you slice it -- is basically "the story of how Kvothe became so awesome". Felurian (oh gods Felurian) and the Adem are probably the most egregious examples.
Oh good lords yes. Honestly, these two parts in particular make me kind of hate myself for liking the books at all.
So, my thoughts on the books:
I read them, both, quickly, and look forward to the third one.
While I was reading them, I was completely and totally absorbed. I particularly enjoyed the first, although they both were quite good.
The very moment I put them down, I was almost ashamed for liking them, because there was so much wrong with them. The narration is a lot of fun but it's full of pointlessly overblown sentiment, "if I but knew" moments, etc. It also is so gosh darned smug. These are all the things I start thinking the moment I stop reading the book and start thinking about what I read.
But as soon as I pick it back up, I'm totally absorbed and enjoying what I'm reading. (Except Felurian and, to a lesser extent, the Adem. Those parts are terrible. When he loses his virginity to a faery sex queen, and she later founds out he's a virgin and expresses such astonishment because his sexual prowess - my goodness! He was like the wind, like a storm! - gah, I feel so much stupider for even having read that bit.)
So, take from that what you will. I'm almost certainly going to pay money for the third book when and if it comes out, so I guess Rothfuss wins this one, even if I do think the books are way too smarmy for their own good.
Chainsaw Hobbit
2013-07-25, 10:27 PM
The Kingkiller Chronicle is very good at what it does. What it does is provide wish fulfillment for fifteen-year-old boys. Being a fifteen-year-old boy, I liked it, despite the nagging feeling that I shouldn't.
Knaight
2013-07-25, 10:36 PM
Yeah, I read that - and in my experience my tastes line up reasonably well with the author's - and my already minimal desire to wade through another multi-volume epic pretty much evaporated. The whole thing just sounded like an exercise in bad nerdity.
There is some genuinely good stuff in there, but the books desperately needed an editor. The Felurian section being condemned here is getting criticized for entirely legitimate reasons, and needed to hit the chopping block. Book 1 is actually worth reading, Book 2 is pretty mediocre (though it manages to have a pretty wide range around mediocre on both sides), and it pretty much falls on Book 3 to redeem the series. I'm optimistic, but it could easily go horribly wrong.
thubby
2013-07-25, 10:45 PM
There is some genuinely good stuff in there, but the books desperately needed an editor. The Felurian section being condemned here is getting criticized for entirely legitimate reasons, and needed to hit the chopping block. Book 1 is actually worth reading, Book 2 is pretty mediocre (though it manages to have a pretty wide range around mediocre on both sides), and it pretty much falls on Book 3 to redeem the series. I'm optimistic, but it could easily go horribly wrong.
i disagree that it needed to be chopped altogether. shorter and cut down to more significant story elements, definitely.
i think book 2 suffers for simply being book 2. as the middle of a story, it can't have much in the way of an opening, and it definitely can't end anything. it happens in basically all media.
the choice to develop the relationships was a good one, but *shruggs* middle child.
warty goblin
2013-07-25, 11:24 PM
There is some genuinely good stuff in there, but the books desperately needed an editor.
That right there is pretty much the only sentence I need to terminate any desire I have to read another multiple-volume epic. The last fantasy series I can say I actually enjoyed was Trudi Canavan's Black Magician trilogy, because - shockingly - things actually progressed consistently. Things happened in each chapter, the plot evolved as the story progressed, and at no point did I realize the entire section I had just read contained exactly no events of importance. It had pacing in other words, which did a lot to make up for the kinda boilerplate prose.
OverdrivePrime
2013-07-26, 02:12 PM
The Kingkiller Chronicle is very good at what it does. What it does is provide wish fulfillment for fifteen-year-old boys. Being a fifteen-year-old boy, I liked it, despite the nagging feeling that I shouldn't.
Don't feel bad about that. I'm 36 and just read the two books last year. I loved them, despite feeling wavering levels of disgust and disdain for Kvothe and his love. The Felurian section had me asking myself, 'why in the blue hells am I enjoying this?" But, as I said, I love the books and am anxiously awaiting the next. As others have said, Rothfus is just such an insanely good storyteller that despite my disagreements with Kovthe himself, I really want to know the rest of his story.
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