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View Full Version : Truth, Honor, Hope (PEACH)[3.5] (also a sorc/FVS boosting)



toapat
2012-10-24, 12:05 PM
Foreword: yes, another Toapat paladin brew: im calling this the Magnum opus though, so ill try not to do another for a while. I decided instead this time that ill focus on the stuff that works, but with homebrew unlike the Paladin Non-brew

Fluff:
Shara Brightblade gasped, then regreted it as her injured lung protested painfully.
Her vision was beginning to fade, the auras of evil shadowy and indistinct. A hand touched her back. She turned, sword at the ready, though every muscle in her body resisted.
A flood of energy washed over her, clean and pure, washing away the imperfections of her body,her cuts lessening.
Domas Trostun, another member of her order stepped back, then used the same motion to send the energy that had healed Shara coursing through the body of the clawed corpse to the right of him. This time,the energy found nothing but imperfection,and the thing collapsed to the ground, smoking.
"Many thanks" she said, a wave of relief running through her body. Her time to go was not yet,at least.
"Save it for when we've won," Domas said, skewering another corpse through the chest.
"The Damned keep coming!" someone shouted. "They've made it through the south gate"
Shara closed her eyes, remembering the words of the scripture she'd studied earlier."The Lady shall make my arm strong,that I may show to the world her majesty."
"Praise the Lady", she whispered,her body filling with power, as the gate splintered, and the Damned filled the temple.

Those who seek to fight tyranny, to heal the sick, Those who fight darkness and help the fearful. They are the Paladins, and they fight for the good of others. They hope for peace, but fight an endless war against evil.


http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs6/i/2005/022/7/b/Celestial_by_JasonEngle.jpg
Image is ďCelestialĒ by JasonEngle of deviantArt. (http://jasonengle.deviantart.com/art/Celestial-14400235)


"Where Tyranny rules, Justice shall revolt
Who Fear holds, Hope shall free
Which Cruelty torments, Mercy shall reach
When Suffering spreads, I bring Release
Where Darkness Reigns, Light shall Conquer
Paladin" ~ Oath of the True Lightbringer Paladin order.

Gameplay Information:
Attributes: A paladin Favors strength, as it allows them better accuracy, and damage. Constitution for health and fortitude saves, and Charisma for saves, smite bonuses, and spells. Dexterity improves the paladin's reflex saves, AC, and Innitive.
Alignment: Any Good
Hit Die: 1d10
Starting Age: Moderate
Starting Gold: 150gp


Paladin
http://i.imgur.com/5qghpUH.png

Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex)
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) ◊ 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Class Abilities:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Paladins are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, as well as a single exotic weapon. Paladins are also proficient with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields (except tower shields).

Aura of Good (Ex): The power of a paladinís aura of good (see the detect good spell) is equal to her paladin level.

Detect Evil (Sp): At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell.

Smite Evil (Su): Once per encounter, a paladin may attempt to smite evil with one normal attack. She adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per paladin level. If the paladin accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, the smite has no effect, and is not used up for the encounter.
At 5th level, and at every five levels thereafter, the paladin may smite evil one additional time per encounter, as indicated on Table: The Paladin, to a maximum of five times per encounter* at 20th level.
In addition to the normal effect, beginning at 5th level, whenever a creature is struck by the paladin's smite evil, that creature finds it difficult to cast spells or use magical items. For one round, any attempt to complete one of these actions requires a sucessful concentration check against a DC of (10+paladin level+charisma modifier); Failure means that the action fails. If a spell was being cast, the spell or spell slot is lost. If a magic item was being activated, the attempt mearly fails. Multiple Smite Evil attempts on the same creature do not have cumulative effect.

*An Encounter is a single unbroken period of combat. A period of 5 minutes must elapse for an encounter to be considered a separate instance.

Divine Grace (Su): At 2nd level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.

Lay on Hands (Su): Starting at level 2, a paladin can channel 1d6+her charisma modifier positive energy damage* one time per day. For every 2 paladin levels afterwards, Lay on hands deals an additional 1d6 damage and can be used an additional time per day.
Lay on Hands is a swift action when the paladin uses it on herself, and a standard action when used on a friendly ally. When used offensively, The paladin must succeed a melee touch attack in order for the lay on hands to take effect. If she fails, the Lay on Hands has no effect and usage is lost for the day. A Paladin must have one hand free in order to use Lay on Hands.

* Positive energy heals Living and undying, but damages evil Outsiders and Undead

Aura of Resolve (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, a paladin is immune to effects used by her enemies with the Mind Effecting Descriptor. Each ally within 30 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects. This ability functions while the paladin is conscious, but not if she is unconscious or dead.

Enduring Personality (Ex): At 3rd level, a paladin becomes immune charisma damage and drain.

Battle Blessing (Ex): A Paladin can cast most of her paladin spell slots faster than normal. If the prepared spell normally requires a standard action, she can cast it as a swift action. If it normally requires a full round to cast, she can cast it as a standard action. Spells with longer or shorter casting times are not affected.

Mercies (Su): Slowly, over time, Paladins learn how to counteract more then just bleeding when the Lay on Hands. At 4th level, and every 4th level afterwards, a paladin may select a mercy from the following list, and each mercy applies whenever she uses her Lay on Hands ability to heal. Each mercy may be selected more then one time, so long as the paladin meets the minimum level prerequisite.



Name
Mercy
Minimum Level
Divine InfluenceAll variable numeric values of Lay on Hands are Maximized20
Divine VerdictYou may affect upto 5 targets withing 30 feet of you with your lay on hands20
LuckTouched creature gets a +1 luck bonus to all rolls for 1 hour4
AgeCures 1d4 negative levels12
DespairAs remove Curse8
PoisonCompletely removes one poison that the touched creature suffers from12
PestilenceCures one disease the target suffers from4
DisorientationCures Confusion4
SightCures Blindness8
HearingCures Deafness4
StoneAs Stone to Flesh16
Wellness Cures 1d6 Ability damage/drain4
CourageRemoves Shaken, or reduces Frightened and Panicked one step.4


Mettle (Su): The Paladin's conviction is so strong, that she is able to shrug off magical effects that would harm her. If a Paladin makes a successful Will or Fortitude saving throw that would normally reduce the spell's effect, she suffers no effect from the spell at all. Only those spells with a Saving Throw entry of "Will partial," "Fortitude half," or similar entries can be negated through this ability.

Improved Mettle (Su):As with Mettle, but the paladin also receives half damage on a failed Fortitude save, or partial effect on a failed Will save.

Spells: Beginning at 4th level, a paladin gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells, which are drawn from the paladin spell list*.

To prepare or cast a spell, a paladin must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a paladinís spell is 10 + the spell level + the paladinís Charisma modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a paladin can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Charisma score.

A paladin can cast any spell in her prayerbook without preparing it ahead of time. Paladins also have a Hymn book,

Through 3rd level, a paladin has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, her caster level is three less then her paladin level.

Prayerbook: A paladin's prayerbook contains all spells on the paladin spell list*. Casting spells from her prayerbook takes no more time or effort then the spell would normally take.

*Add the following spells to the paladin's spell list: 1stóprotection from law: 2ndóhaste; 3rdómagic circle against law; 4thódispel law, freedom of movement, Anarchic Sword.

Hymnbook: A paladin's Hymnbook contains mystic lore that each paladin believes would be of great benefit to her cause. A paladin may inscribe any spell from the Sorcerer and Favored Soul spell lists.

At 11th level, a paladin gains her Hymnbook, which begins with four spells each of each spell level that the paladin can wield. Two spells each from the Favored Soul and Sorcerer spell lists. Each time she levels, a spell each from the Sorcerer and Favored Spell list is automatically inscribed into the paladin's hymnbook.

In order to cast a spell from her hymnbook, a Paladin must spend 20 minutes studying the spell, or 1 hour total for many spells. any spells prepared from her hymnbook take two spell slots of their spell level to prepare though, and so she must decide whether preparation, or adaptability, is more important to her. These spells are treated as paladin spells for battle blessing.

Warden's Charge: A paladin at 5th level has to make her most important decision of her carreer. She decides whether to call to her service divine spirits or a majestic steed.

Special Mount (Sp): Upon reaching 5th level, a paladin gains the service of an unusually intelligent, strong, and loyal steed to serve her in her crusade against evil (see below). This mount is usually a Griffon (for a Medium paladin) or a Medium Griffon (for a Small paladin).

Once per day, as a full-round action, a paladin may magically call her mount from the celestial realms in which it resides. This ability is the equivalent of a spell of a level equal to one-third the paladinís level. The mount immediately appears adjacent to the paladin and remains until dismissed; it may be dismissed at any time as a free action. The mount is the same creature each time it is summoned, though the paladin may release a particular mount from service.

Each time the mount is called, it appears in full health, regardless of any damage it may have taken previously. The mount also appears wearing or carrying any gear it had when it was last dismissed. Calling a mount is a conjuration (calling) effect.

Should the paladinís mount die, it immediately disappears, leaving behind any equipment it was carrying. The paladin may not summon another mount for thirty days or until she gains a paladin level, whichever comes first, even if the mount is somehow returned from the dead. During this thirty-day period, the paladin takes a Ė1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls.

Divine Spirit (Su): A Paladin beginning at 5th level can call forth the spirits of past Divine Crusaders. As a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, a Paladin can call forth a spirit from beyond the mortal realm.


LevelSpirit
5-9Spirit of Healing
10-14Spirit of Combat
15-19Spirit of Heroism
20+Spirit of the Fallen


Each Spirit has the following characteristics:

A Spirit takes up a 5' space on the battlefield
When summoned, the spirit appears within 30 feet of the paladin.
Spirits are insubstantial and transparent, and as such do not block line of sight or line of effect. They also can be moved through as though not occupying a square.
A spirit cannot attack or be attacked. It is not undead and cannot be turned. It is subject to dispel magic, dismissal, or banishment as if it were a summoned creature, using your paladin level as the caster level.
If you lose line of sight to a spirit, it disappears immediately.
You may summon a spirit by expending a use of Lay on Hands for the day.
A spirit remains for a number of rounds equal to your paladin level, until it is dismissed, or until special conditions in the spirit's description are met.

Spirit of Healing: The First spirit a paladin can summon is the Spirit of Healing. This spirit has a number of uses of Lay on Hands as the paladin, and each lay on hands heals for 1d3 hp per paladin level. The spirit must occupy the same square as the creature it is healing though.

Spirit of Combat: This spirit enhances combat ability. Whenever an ally (including yourself) is adjacent to the spirit of combat or occupying its space, that character gains holy fervor. Holy fervor grants a +1 sacred bonus on attacks and damage rolls for every four paladin levels you possess (up to a maximum of +5 at 20th level). In addition, affected characters' weapons are treated as good-aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Spirit of Heroism: This spirit automatically occupies your space and does not leave until dismissed or dispelled, or the duration of the summoning ends. You gain DR 10/--. In addition, you gain the benefit of the Diehard feat (even if you do not meet the prerequisite) and can use your lay on hands ability as a free action once per round instead of as a swift action.

Spirit of the Fallen: At 20th level, a paladin can call fourth the mightiest of her spirits. While you or any of your allies are adjacent to this spirit, it grants fast healing 10 to those characters. If an affected character's hit points drop to 0 or fewer while within 30 feet of this spirit, it revives that character at the start of his next turn, allowing him to take his action as normal. The character heals an amount of damage equal to twice your paladin level, though if his hit points are still at -10 or below, he still dies. The spirit can use its revive ability once per round.

Spellshatter (Su): Once per day, beginning at 4th level, a Paladin can choose to deliver a targeted Greater Dispel Magic (http://dndtools.eu/spells/players-handbook-v35--6/dispel-magic-greater--2316/) with a physical attack she makes with a weapon attack. The decision to use this ability must be made before the attack is rolled. If the attack misses, the ability is wasted.
if the attack hits, treat this as if the paladin had cast Greater Dispel Magic on the creature struck, using twice her paladin level as the caster level (no maximum).
A paladin may use this ability an additional time each day every fourth level afterwards.

Bonus Feats: At 7th level, and every third level afterwards, a paladin recieves a bonus feat. This feat may be any feat of the Paladin's choosing, and she is considered a Fighter for any feat with which they are prerequisite.

Measure of Conviction (Ex): The Paladin's conviction strengthens, and she is now able to perform multiple attacks with a single use of her divine blow. Once activated, all bonuses of Smite Evil apply until the beginning of the Paladin's next turn.

Wrathful Smiting (Su): Beginning at 17th level, a paladin may sacrifice one of her uses of Smite Evil for each encounter in a day in order to deliver a massive shockwave of divine energy. As a Standard action, the paladin may perform a melee attack, and if she succeeds, she deals 1d6 holy damage per paladin level to each creature in a 20' burst centered on the struck creature.

Code of Conduct: A paladin must be of a good alignment. A paladin should act with honor and respect, help those in need, and to punish those who threaten or harm the innocent. A paladin who is not of good alignment looses all Supernatural abilities until she atones.

Paladin Afterlife: In death, a Paladin does not travel to the celestial plane of her alignment, but instead arrives at the Demiplane known as the Bastion of Righteous Hope. Here, paladins dine in magnificent mead halls, debate the best ways to fight evil, and prepare for raids on the infernal and Abyssal realms.


Paladin LevelBonus HDNatural Armor Adj.Str AdjIntSpecial
5th-7th+2+4+18Empathic Link, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Share Saving Throws
8th-10th+4+6+29Improved Speed
11th-14th+6+8+310Command Creatures of Its Kind
15th-20th+8+10+411Spell Resistance


Paladinís Mount Basics: Use the base statistics for a creature of the mountís kind, but make changes to take into account the attributes and characteristics summarized on the table and described below.

Bonus HD: Extra eight-sided (d8) Hit Dice, each of which gains a Consitution modifier, as normal. Extra Hit Dice improve the mountís base attack and base save bonuses. A special mountís base attack bonus is equal to that of a cleric of a level equal to the mountís HD. A mount has good Fortitude and Reflex saves (treat it as a character whose level equals the animalís HD). The mount gains additional skill points or feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monsterís Hit Dice.

Natural Armor Adj.: The number on the table is an improvement to the mountís existing natural armor bonus.
Str Adj.: Add this figure to the mountís Strength score.
Int: The mountís Intelligence score.

Empathic Link (Su): The paladin has an empathic link with her mount out to a distance of up to 1 mile. The paladin cannot see through the mountís eyes, but they can communicate empathically.
Note that even intelligent mounts see the world differently from humans, so misunderstandings are always possible.
Because of this empathic link, the paladin has the same connection to an item or place that her mount does, just as with a master and his familiar (see Familiars).

Improved Evasion (Ex): When subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving throw for half damage, a mount takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw and half damage if the saving throw fails.

Share Spells: At the paladinís option, she may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) she casts on herself also affect her mount.
The mount must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit. If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the mount if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the mount again even if it returns to the paladin before the duration expires. Additionally, the paladin may cast a spell with a target of ďYouĒ on her mount (as a touch range spell) instead of on herself. A paladin and her mount can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the mountís type (magical beast).

Share Saving Throws: For each of its saving throws, the mount uses its own base save bonus or the paladinís, whichever is higher. The mount applies its own ability modifiers to saves, and it doesnít share any other bonuses on saves that the master might have.
Improved Speed (Ex): The mountís speed increases by 10 feet.

Command (Sp): Once per day per two paladin levels of its master, a mount can use this ability to command other any normal animal of approximately the same kind as itself (for warhorses and warponies, this category includes donkeys, mules, and ponies), as long as the target creature has fewer Hit Dice than the mount. This ability functions like the command spell, but the mount must make a DC 21 Concentration check to succeed if itís being ridden at the time. If the check fails, the ability does not work that time, but it still counts against the mountís daily uses. Each target may attempt a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 paladinís level + paladinís Cha modifier) to negate the effect.

Spell Resistance (Ex): A mountís spell resistance equals its masterís paladin level + 5. To affect the mount with a spell, a spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the mountís spell resistance.

toapat
2012-10-24, 12:24 PM
(this is to get people off my back before the comments start going)

Nexus' Manipulation [General]
With effort and study, you can conjure powers that do not come naturally to you.
Prerequisite: Sorcerer or Favored Soul, Spellcraft 8, No levels of a prepared spellcasting class
Benefits:
Sorcerers may spend 20 minutes to prepare a spell from a Wizard's spellbook. This spell, when prepared, takes up two spell slots of it's base level. If preparing additional spells in this way, add 20 minutes to the time, or it takes 1 hour, whichever is less.

Favored Souls may pray for 20 minutes to their diety, and resultantly prepare a spell from any domain in two slots of equal level.

Spells prepared in this way can not have any metamagic other then heighten spell applied, and it takes a Spellcraft DC of (Spell level+10) to prepare a spell.

Normal: Sorcerers and Favored Souls have an entirely preset spell list.

toapat
2012-10-24, 03:54 PM
Edited the Spontaineous caster feat to be readable and not nearly as broken

Noctis Vigil
2012-10-24, 04:07 PM
Hmm. Lay on hands, as written, could be interpreted as only being allowed to do damage, since you specify in the initial line of the ability that it deals "positive energy damage". Might want to change the wording on that to just "positive energy", or maybe specify that it damages undead and evil outsiders and heals others. Also, I see no problem with raising their number of uses per day. Also, explain the Mercies better. I believe you meant to give them a limited number of uses for each, or to increase their power, but as written, you can choose the same mercy twice, but doing so doesn't actually do anything. Also, I believe the term you want under the Wellness Mercy is "ability damage", not "attribute damage". Lastly (for now) you seem to have forgotten the ability description for Divine Grace (I assume it's as the normal Paladin ability, but you should define it here).

toapat
2012-10-24, 05:06 PM
*snip*

1: added a footnote to LoH
2: Mercies are stapled into LoH, and apply on heals
3: derp, added. Bonus feats line too

toapat
2012-10-26, 03:27 PM
Did i really make a solid T3 paladin with a mechanic that lets me prepare most of the spells in the game, and only get one comment?

Noctis Vigil
2012-10-27, 05:24 PM
But it can't prepare most the spells in the game. Only most the spells up to 4th level. And it costs two spell slots to use them. Frankly, there are only a few instances where this is strictly better than preparing twice as many spells (as a great many of the FS spells are already Paladin spells of lower level).

toapat
2012-11-12, 12:40 AM
edited the hymnbook

spells prepared from it are now cast with the effects of Battle Blessing

Blue1005
2012-11-12, 04:40 AM
I love the feat for FVS and Sorc, i have always wondered why nothing like that was available before.

toapat
2012-11-13, 11:13 AM
I decided if Paladin is getting it, it would be unfair for the classes that really need it didnt get it.

Im deciding whether the griffons should get the half Celestial template at pally 8

1525 views and 3 comments. I havent had as large of an apathy towards my brew since i wrote a class for weapons.

Blue1005
2012-11-14, 12:09 AM
Truly my opinion is useless im not one of those guys, but as said i love the fvs/sorc addition. I truly wonder IF paladin can ever be a class that can stand on its own.

Blue1005
2012-11-14, 12:35 AM
I have always thought to "balance" the game is wrong. Some people IRL are more useful and some are less.

toapat
2012-11-14, 12:44 AM
not really, unless a system rebuild is instated that makes certain aspects of the game more balanced.

Edit: Corrected battle blessing's wording

^this post removed because i dont like to have too many in my own topic


I have always thought to "balance" the game is wrong. Some people IRL are more useful and some are less.

Balance, does not mean what you think it does (http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/perfect-imbalance)

Xefas
2012-11-25, 03:02 AM
Does "Wrathful Smiting" also deal the bonus damage to the struck target? I think it does, but I'm not 100% certain. I could see it being a "My fight is with you alone!" ability, where you hit the boss, and divine light zaps all of his minions that are encircling you (but not necessarily the dude himself). I could also see it just being an indiscriminate beam. So, could go either way.

I think it should probably allow a Saving Throw in either case. Not to the initial target, necessarily, but definitely for the bystanders in the blast. Otherwise, you get the situation of it being better to focus on the minions, while your blasts auto-wreck the boss monster without you having to engage his stats at all. If you have, say, no saving throw for the initial target, and a saving throw for the secondary targets, then you're back to the awesome incentive for the Paladin to rush the big scary guy, and all the little lesser fiends are burned into inconsequential ash in your wake of badassitude.

Oh, and can you clarify what "holy" damage is? I don't think that's a pre-established thing. Do you mean its physical damage that bypasses damage reduction as if it were Good-aligned? That's the closest I can think of.

The Bonus Feats class feature is kinda bland. I think it would be much more thematically interesting if there were some kind of guidelines for what feats you were allowed to take. Right now it's the kind of super-generalist power that I believe is more striking on Rogue-ish classes. It makes a statement about them that they have such a wide breadth of knowledge. For the Paladin, it doesn't really make a statement, in my eyes. It just seems bland.

The Code of Conduct seems largely unnecessary now. It just says "Be vaguely good", which is already covered by the alignment requirement of being Any Good. That's fine. I just don't think a Code even needs to be mentioned.

In that same vein, how do you feel about a class feature that would allow a Paladin to more easily inflict non-lethal damage? I don't think a Paladin necessarily needs to be dealing with every problem non-lethally, Book of Exalted Deeds style, but I think it would be very Paladinly for them to have the option.

toapat
2012-11-25, 11:37 AM
*Snip*

1: holy damage is supposed to be good damage, that deals half damage to neutral and none to good. I didnt give it a save mostly because either i would make the save cause it to be useless, or the save would be too powerful. Interesting that it might not actually hit the primary target.

2: Bonus feats were irritating, i wanted them to be useful, but the problem is, there is a huge number of feats paladins can qualify for, and having the Fighter, Knight, and Wizard bonus feats all together would be a little extreme.

3: Ya, the code is a little extraneous. I typically dont consider what im going to put in as extra abilities till after i have most of the class worked out, and by that point it is too late to add a Non-lethal specialization

Xefas
2012-11-25, 05:40 PM
I didnt give it a save mostly because either i would make the save cause it to be useless, or the save would be too powerful.

I don't agree. Plenty of things have saving throws attached to them that aren't useless. Really, the only things that don't have saving throws, or some equivalent method of resisting them, are those few broken spells that shouldn't exist anyway. The kind of stuff that's largely only the purview of Tier 1 and 2 classes. Doing something like (10 + 1/2 character level + highest ability score modifier) would be more than enough to make Wrathful Smiting an excellent ability for taking out groups of foes.


Bonus feats were irritating, i wanted them to be useful, but the problem is, there is a huge number of feats paladins can qualify for, and having the Fighter, Knight, and Wizard bonus feats all together would be a little extreme.

Instead of making an enormous list, you could do something like "At 7th level, and every third level afterwards, a paladin receives a bonus feat. This feat may be any feat of the Paladin's choosing that:
*Has a Paladin class feature as a prerequisite.
*Supplements the spellcasting of the Paladin class.
*Directly improves their competence with mounted combat.
*Requires religious dedication to their deity or cause (such as Devotion/Domain feats).
*Is a Fighter Bonus Feat. They are considered a Fighter of their Paladin level for the purposes of qualifying for feats that improve their use of a single weapon, in which their deity's signature weapon is chosen (such as Weapon Specialization (Longsword) for a paladin of Heironeous). In all other cases, they are considered a Fighter of their Paladin level minus 2."

Just a thought.


Ya, the code is a little extraneous. I typically dont consider what im going to put in as extra abilities till after i have most of the class worked out, and by that point it is too late to add a Non-lethal specialization

It could be as simple as adding a clause to Smite Evil that says that when the Paladin smites evil, they may choose to show magnanimous mercy to their enemies, above and beyond what is required of a Paladin, and allow them to live in the hopes they may one day be able to atone for their wickedness. In this case, all the damage of an attack supplemented by that merciful smite evil is dealt as non-lethal damage.

tarkisflux
2012-11-25, 07:17 PM
Thoughts and opinions (I hope you find some of them helpful / relevant):

The last sentence in the first Smite Evil paragraph says "per day at 20th level" instead of "per encounter". Should be changed I think.

I'm curious why you have per encounter strikes, per day strikes, and "per encounter reductions for the rest of the day" strikes. It seems like a missed opportunity to unify a resource mechanic, and I'm not sure if it's intentional or works as well as it could. Did you consider charging different numbers of smite evil strikes (for that encounter) instead? For example, charging 2 smites for each Spellstrike? Or charging 1 strike per 4d6 of Wrathful Smiting damage? That might mean a bit more of each of those in a day, but it also means fewer regular smites in an encounter when those come out and less resource tracking. A reasonable trade IMO.

Even if you don't like that so much, the cost on wrathful smite may need to be adjusted. Decreasing future encounter smites by 1 for the rest of the day doesn't cost very much if it's the last encounter in the day. If you're relatively confident that it's the last big fight of the day you can just use the strike a couple of times and live with only 2 regular smites for any future encounters (which may not even come up). It just seems like a really easy thing to work around at that level, and like it doesn't work as a prohibitive cost. Even "per day" or "per hour" would work better here I think.

Also, a definition of "encounter" or upper limit on recharges would be nice. In case he wants to smite destroy evil relics or whatever.

The mercies are a nice, and very welcome, boost on lay on hands. But the 'select and apply all' model seems a bit odd and restrictive. Is there a reason you don't want to just give them all of the mercies that they qualify for? I think a tier 3 class with half-casting and healing duties could afford the extra healing flexibility. In that case the apply all setup doesn't work, so you could apply one mercy at a time plus healing or apply two without healing.

Additional mercy options, if you wanted some: full ability score recovery (a la restoration), and dispel compulsion (a la break enchantment, since they get compulsion immunity anyway).

By the way, compulsion immunity was a nice add. No qualifiers on that one, just general thumbs up :-)

And I'll end on a minor gripe. I don't particularly like giving divine classes access to non-domain arcane spells like your hymnbook does, but they're certainly paying for it with double slot costs. So it's probably fine, even if I'm not a fan thematically.

toapat
2012-11-25, 10:38 PM
*snip*

1+2.5: Smite Evil vs Spellshatter: If i was to compare this to the Crusader, Smite Evil are their manuvers, while Spell shatter is the Smite. Ill check to make sure there is consistant wording though, and add a note

2: Nerfing Wrathful smite to a Melee attack, Running off of Melee Touch is a bit OP, although it isnt particularly strong as far as i can tell.

3: Mercies do that in PF too, its just that alot of the mercies in PF are not particularly powerful, nor do they cover a large range of effects. I give fewer mercies, dont grant automatic Maximize to the LoH, and strenghten the mercies to be able to deal with more significant threats

4: I wanted the Aura of Resolve from CG paladin, but when i went to give it, i determined that it is more thematic if the presence of the aura was courage, but the effects was mind sealing.

5: I didnt want to fish through a thousand spells to assemble a spell list. The Hymnbook is simply an advanced version of the Sword of the Arcane Order feat. I get your point though.

tarkisflux
2012-11-25, 11:24 PM
1+2.5: Smite Evil vs Spellshatter: If i was to compare this to the Crusader, Smite Evil are their manuvers, while Spell shatter is the Smite. Ill check to make sure there is consistant wording though, and add a note

2: Nerfing Wrathful smite to a Melee attack, Running off of Melee Touch is a bit OP, although it isnt particularly strong as far as i can tell.

I think you misunderstood me here, so I'll try again a bit differently. I get the per encounter / per day bits, I just don't think they're necessary or useful distinctions on a class like like this. Spells + per encounters + per days + future encounter maximum reducers is a lot of different resource mechanisms to juggle, and I don't know that it's worth doing.

I wasn't suggesting that you tweak the effects of any of the strikes, but that you tweak the way that you paid for them in combat. I'll just write up some specifics for you, borrowing your existing wording where appropriate:

Spellshatter (Su): Beginning at 5th level, a Paladin can choose to deliver a targeted Greater Dispel Magic with a Melee attack. This counts as two uses of their Smite Evil ability for the encounter. The decision to use this ability must be made before the attack is rolled.
If the attack hits, treat this as if the paladin had cast Greater Dispel Magic on the creature struck, using her paladin level as her caster level. If the attack misses, the smites are not used.

Wrathful Smiting (Su): Beginning at 17th level, a paladin may sacrifice one or more of her uses of Smite Evil in an encounter in order to deliver a massive shockwave of divine energy. As a Standard action, the paladin may perform a melee attack against a foe. If she succeeds, she deals 4d6 holy damage per Smite Evil strike used to the struck creature and each other creature in a 20' burst. If the attack misses, the smites are not used.

That's most of what you have already, just converted to a "uses of smite evil" resource management schedule instead of a separately tracked schedule. I prefer unified resource schemes where possible, but I understand that's not everyone's thing. It also pushes back spellshatter to 5, but that's when Dispel comes online for most other classes anyway.

As for the rest, fair enough. Stylistic differences and whatnot, like the above resource change might be.

toapat
2013-10-22, 05:59 PM
I wasn't suggesting that you tweak the effects of any of the strikes, but that you tweak the way that you paid for them in combat. I'll just write up some specifics for you, borrowing your existing wording where appropriate:

and i saw no reason to agree with you. it is only a small number of mechanics one needs to track.


(this post actually made for this amendment)


Toapat's Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14104896): regarding Hymnbook, can the Paladin inscribe extra spells into the Hymnbook the way a Wizard can add spells to his spellbook? If so, what is the limit to the amount of spells it can hold (so, its page number)?

specifically, this falls 2 ways, depending on a ruling of the DM:

ruling A: No, they cannot add spells to the book, thus they only have 1 book which is stored in the same dimensional pocket as the Gryphon and its horse jerky/the spirits.

ruling B: yes, they can add spells to the book, thus each book contains 100 pages as standard for spellbooks. Spellbook materials from Complete Arcane may also be used as alternatives to hide+paper

DracoDei
2013-10-22, 09:30 PM
In case A, how is a destroyed book replaced?

toapat
2013-10-22, 09:40 PM
In case A, how is a destroyed book replaced?

its not supposed to be destroyed in the first place, IE why it sits on a stool in the divine realms when not being read. the tradeoff is that any mistakes are permanent of your 44 additional spells

toapat
2013-10-27, 09:23 PM
removed the 2 hours/level summoning time for the mount

not sure if there is anything left to deal with that wouldnt mandate a new topic because of the sweeping changes that would be to the casting, as a result of a reconstructed spell list.

tarkisflux
2013-10-27, 10:38 PM
and i saw no reason to agree with you. it is only a small number of mechanics one needs to track.

3 similar-ish mechanics to track is still more to track than 1, but if you don't care about that sort of thing then you don't care about that sort of thing. So when you didn't respond, I took silence as the response and assumed that it was because you didn't care for it. I even figured it was likely to be the case if you hadn't misunderstood my intent, and hence ended my post with things to the effect of "my preferences aren't everyone's cup of tea" and "it might be stylistic differences".

Responding to it almost a year later strikes me as a bit weird though. It's already so far in the past as to not matter, and it's not related to any of the things that actually followed it. Did you want to discuss it more now or something?

toapat
2013-10-27, 11:53 PM
3 similar-ish mechanics to track is still more to track than 1, but if you don't care about that sort of thing then you don't care about that sort of thing. So when you didn't respond, I took silence as the response and assumed that it was because you didn't care for it. I even figured it was likely to be the case if you hadn't misunderstood my intent, and hence ended my post with things to the effect of "my preferences aren't everyone's cup of tea" and "it might be stylistic differences".

Responding to it almost a year later strikes me as a bit weird though. It's already so far in the past as to not matter, and it's not related to any of the things that actually followed it. Did you want to discuss it more now or something?

i like to keep the thread self contained and backdating to a specific post in the tiering compendium lead me to require a dedicated piece of errata.

I hadnt replied originally because i had both felt the argument was going no where (replacing one source of complexity for complexity's sake with another) as opposed to providing constructive suggestions, as well as the fact that i had determined it was time to let the thread die so that the final project could be brought to bear and allowed its time (a rework of the paladin spell list to provide something much stronge, which has not been started yet due to its scope). At least to me, tracking smites/Breaks/Wraths is something that could easily be tracked with a postit-note where you have 2 columns, one for smites+wraths and one for shatters, and then use a pen/different colors to represent wrath's cast in the tally marks for smites.

Another thing was, i dont feel that having everything run off the same resource of the batch actually would provide the king of experience i wanted, which is that Spellbreaker would feel good while Wrath would feel like a calculated risk you are willing to take only on a rare occation where you believe that you can either get 8 hours of sleep ASAP or can deal for the rest of the day with nerfed smites.

Archana
2013-10-28, 01:08 AM
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