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View Full Version : Revenge of the Fleshweaver! [Vote up a Hybrid Creature]



Eldan
2012-11-08, 10:47 PM
D&D has a long and honourable legacy of mixing two animals into one. Be it the well-known Owlbear or the more obscure Squark, the fearsome Wolfspider or the humble Duckbunny, few things say "D&D" like the "Owlephants and spiderhorses" does. And so, to celebrate the spirit of the Tarantubat and the Gorillabear, I'm restarting my old Fleshweaver project.

How does this work?

I will homebrew new hybrid animals with your help. I will put up a list of animal groups to vote, from which two can be selected in a 48 hour public vote. Then, we will hold a second vote, further refining those animal votes and, if necessary, a third time, until we are down to two animals.

I will then combine those two animals into one, give it D&D 3.5 stats, a short text on ecology and behaviour and, using my questionable skills at pencil sketching, a picture.

Sounds like fun? Then please vote! If you give me any especially weird and/or awesome ideas, I might also do them right away.

Animal groups:
Arthropod (Spiders, Scorpions, Lobsters, Crabs, Insects, Millipedes, etc.) IV
Amphibian (Frogs, toads, salamanders)
Bird (You know those. They taste like chicken.) V
Echinoderm (Starfish. And only starfish.) III
Fish (They swim. They might be sharks.) II
Mammal (Everything from mice to elephants and naked molerats in between. Also monotremes, for purposes of this thread) V
Mollusc (Slimey things. Snails, squids, octopodes, mussles, clams) II
Reptile (Crocodiles. Lizards. Snakes.) I

A note: while I'm a biologist, I'm not going by precise phylogenic definitions.


Finished Beasts:

Grey Squimu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14206280&postcount=35)
Hummipede (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11959331&postcount=51)
The Octocrow (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202803)
Snailstar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11932325&postcount=13)
Snowfairy Owlmadillo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14223145&postcount=56)
Tasmanian Garlic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11999763&postcount=90)
Viperhawk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14194077&postcount=7)

Eurus
2012-11-08, 10:52 PM
I'll vote for Mollusc and Mammal.

Mr.Bookworm
2012-11-08, 11:03 PM
Birds and Echinoderms. More animals need radial symmetry.

Twenty million bonus points if you can concoct a reason for one of these animals that isn't "a wizard did it".

Kellus
2012-11-09, 12:10 AM
Mollusc and Bird. Because the only way to make cuttlefish even more terrifying is by adding wings.

ArkenBrony
2012-11-09, 12:58 AM
reptile and birds, because i want a winged serpent that is natural, dammit, not highly magical outsider

Dracomortis
2012-11-09, 01:42 AM
I'll second the vote for Bird and Echinoderm.

Eldan
2012-11-09, 02:13 AM
reptile and birds, because i want a winged serpent that is natural, dammit, not highly magical outsider


This one's on the house. A quickie. No way I'm drawing all those scales. I also couldn't get my scanner working, so there's a bad photo of the sketch instead.

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/2827/cimg1687k.jpg

Viperhawk
Tiny Animal (Reptilian)
HD 1/4 d8 (1 HP)
Speed 10 ft. (2 squares); Fly 60 ft. (average)
Init: +7
AC 17; touch 15; flat-footed 14
(+2 size, +3 dex, +2 natural)
BAB +0; Grp -11
Attack Bite +5 (1 plus poison)
Full-Attack Bite +5 (1 plus poison)
Space 2.5 ft.; Reach 0 ft.
Special Attacks Poison
Special Qualities Scent, Low-light vision
Saves Fort +2 Ref +5 Will +1
Abilities Str 5, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 4
Skills Spot +13 (+8 racial bonus), Hide +7 (+4 racial bonus)
Feats Weapon Finesse , Improved Initiative
[b]Environment Temperare Forests
Organization Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating 1/2
Treasure Viperhawk Skin (~10 GP)
Alignment Neutral
Advancement 1 HD (small), 2 HD (medium), 3 -5 HD (large), 6-13 HD (huge)

Poison (ex): Fortitude DC 10 (1d6/1d6 constitution)

Anatomy
The Vyperhawk is believed to be either a missing evolutionary link between bird and snake or, as others think, a mundane creature from which the mighty Couatl is merely an ascended form, hatching from the spirits of slain vyperhawks in some arcane way.
While most of its body resembles a snake, there are several modifications in the body plan other than just the obvious, and quite large wings: along the back, it has a bony crest, mirrored by a massive, crested sternum on the chest, serving as anchor points for the massive flight muscles.
The tongue and scent organs are, compared to most snakes much reduced, as the creature relies on its eyesight for hunting.
Along the back and chest, there is a gradual change from scale to feather: the back scales become gradually thinner and more elongated first, then notched and finally hairlike, becoming feathers. The entire creature has a light brown colour, but with darker, almost black stripes, most likely to break up its form and create a camouflage pattern.

Ecology
The Vyperhawk is an aerial ambush predator that uses its camouflage and superior eyesight to either hide in trees or circle high in the sky, spotting prey, mostly small rodents. The prey is swallowed whole. For digestion, the Viperhawk retreats in its cave nest, sometimes for several days.
The long, venomous fangs of the Vyperhawk serve mainly for self-defence against superpredators like the Mongdor and the Badger Eagle. When hunting prey, they are flipped into the mouth on a small joint at their top, to make swallowing easier.
Vyperhawks are solitary, only rarely meeting up for mating, after which the male will build a small nest of twigs in a cave, in which the female will lay 3-5 hard-shelled eggs.

Eurus
2012-11-09, 10:25 AM
Mollusc and Bird. Because the only way to make cuttlefish even more terrifying is by adding wings.

Gasp. Have you not seen the Octocrow (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202803)?


Fun fact of the day: good Octocrows are called Cuttledoves, while neutral ones are much smaller and called Squidgeons.

RollynT.Glal
2012-11-09, 10:33 AM
Im casting my vote (commoner spell: 0-lvl requiring only a verbal component) for Arthropod and Fish.

Now I'm off to prepare the rest of my daily allotment of spells.

Debihuman
2012-11-09, 11:10 AM
These things should be Magical Beasts, not Animals (see Owlbear). In any case, I vote for Mammal/Fish. because otter-sunfish would be cute.

Debby

Eldan
2012-11-09, 11:44 AM
I don't really see the reason for that. They aren't intelligent, and they have no magical abilities. But then, I also always thought Owlbears should be animals, too. "Exists in the real world" really shouldn't be a criterion in a fantasy world.

Debihuman
2012-11-09, 12:42 PM
Whenever you say "a wizard created one of these" it implies magical beast. It doesn't have to have magical abilities to be a magical beast.

Here is how I would have presented your viperhawk (edited a bit too).

Viperhawk
Tiny Magical Beast
Hit Dice: d10 (1 hp)
Speed: 10 ft. (2 squares); Fly 60 ft. (average)
Initiative: +7
Armor Class: 17(+2 size, +3 Dex, +2 natural); touch 15; flat-footed 14
BAB/Grapple: +1/ -10
Attack: Bite +6 melee (1 plus poison)
Full Attack: Bite +6 melee (1 plus poison) and talons +1 melee (1d4-3)
Space/Reach: 2 ft./ 0 ft.
Special Attacks: Poison
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +2 Ref +5 Will +1
Abilities: Str 5, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 4
Skills: Spot +13*, Hide +11
Feats: Weapon FinesseB , Improved Initiative
Environment: Temperate Forests
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: 1/2
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Neutral
Advancement: 1-2 HD (Small), 3-4 HD (Medium)

The viperhawk is believed to be either a missing evolutionary link between bird and snake or a mundane creature from which the mighty couatl is an ascended form, hatching from the spirits of slain viperhawks in some arcane way.

While most of its body resembles a snake, there are several modifications in its body plan other than just the obvious and quite large wings. Along its back, it has a bony crest, mirrored by a massive, crested sternum on the chest, serving as anchor points for the massive flight muscles.

The tongue and scent organs are, compared to most snakes much reduced, as the creature relies on its eyesight for hunting.

Along the back and chest, there is a gradual change from scale to feather. Its back scales become gradually thinner and more elongated first, then notched, and finally becoming feathers. The entire creature has a light brown color, but with darker, almost black stripes, most likely to break up its form and create a camouflage pattern.

Viperhawks are solitary, only rarely meeting up for mating, after which the male will build a small nest of twigs in a cave, in which the female will lay 3-5 hard-shelled eggs.

Intact viperhawk skins sell for 10 gp.

Combat

The viperhawk is an aerial ambush predator that uses its camouflage and superior eyesight to either hide in trees or circle high in the sky, spotting prey, mostly small rodents. The prey is swallowed whole. For digestion, the viperhawk retreats in its cave nest, sometimes for several days.

The long, venomous fangs of the viperhawk serve mainly for self-defense against superpredators like the mongdor and badger eagle. When a viperhawk hunts, its prey is flipped into its mouth on a small joint at their top, to make swallowing easier.

Poison (Ex): Fortitude DC 10 (1d6/1d6 constitution)

Skills: Viperhawks have a +8 racial bonus on Spot checks.

Note: I couldn't tell how many ranks you put into each skill. Hide has a +8 size modifier +3 Dex so it should be at least +11. If you put all ranks into Spot it has +4 ranks +1 Wisdom +8 racial = +13.


Debby

Lyndworm
2012-11-09, 06:00 PM
I don't really see the reason for that. They aren't intelligent, and they have no magical abilities. But then, I also always thought Owlbears should be animals, too. "Exists in the real world" really shouldn't be a criterion in a fantasy world.
I largely agree with you, but I still think that these hybrids should probably be Magical Beasts. From the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#magicalBeastType):


Magical beasts are similar to animals but can have Intelligence scores higher than 2. Magical beasts usually have supernatural (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#supernaturalAbilities) or extraordinary (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#extraordinaryAbilities) abilities, but sometimes are merely bizarre in appearance or habits.

In my opinion, things that absolutely would not occur if not for magical intervention (such as owlbears, howler wasps, and, yes, even octocrows), should be Magical Beasts at the very least, maybe even Aberrations depending on how crazy they are. Animals don't have to be real-world creatures (see Dark Sun), but they should be naturally occurring. In my opinion.


All that said, I totally love and support this idea. I vote Arthropod and Mammal. I love long limbs, chitin, and too many legs in any combination. That and there's just so much awesome you can do with it, due to the insane variety in each group.

radmelon
2012-11-09, 06:06 PM
I too say arthropod and mammal. So many combinations, so little time...

Eldan
2012-11-10, 06:51 AM
See, we have much, much weirder animals than that in the real world. If an Octopus is an animal, I don't really see why a feathered snake shouldn't be. They are much farther away from a standard vertebrate body plan.

I'm not saying none of these should be magical beasts or aberrations. The octocrows are. But the Viperhawk, to me, is just too normal for that. Feathers and scales are relatively closely related, anatomically speaking. Now, snakes may be far away from those dinosaurs who eventually became birds in our world, but this is a fantasy world.

Keynub
2012-11-10, 08:49 AM
In my opinion, as it is described, the Viperhawk is an animal : no supernatural abilities, not really disturbing or alien in form, animal intelligence, and no references to it being created by some lunatic.
I believe the Owlbear is explicitly the creation of a wizard : it is, therefore, a Magical Beast.
The one I can't understand is the Hippogriff, which looks fairly natural to me.

By the way, Eldan, you seem to use both "vyperhawk" and "viperhawk". Are those two official spellings? :smalltongue:

Back on topic, I'm going to vote for Arthropod (make that one with claws) and Bird.

What category contains the dreaded jellyfish?

The Zoat
2012-11-10, 09:05 AM
Enchinoderm and Mammal.

Eldan
2012-11-10, 09:06 AM
Hm. It seems I have forgotten Jellyfish.

Eldan
2012-11-10, 09:46 AM
Calling it now. It's not quite 48 hours yet, but the start was made in the middle of the night.

So, it is a Mammal Bird (Avemammalia).

Vote for one each:

Once again, these groups are sometimes based more on what the creature looks like than any actual phylogeny. I also just eliminated some of the less well known groups, especially with the birds. If you especially love a group of species not on the list (say, a Sandgrouse), feel free to suggest it.

What kind of Mammal:

Insectivores: shrews, aardvarks, moles, hedgehogs
Paenungulata: Elephants, Manatees, dugongs
Xenarthra: Sloths, armadillos, ant-eaters
Primates: lemurs, monkeys, apes I
Lagomorpha: hares, rabbits
Rodents: mice, rats, squirrels, hamsters
Cetacea: whales, dolphins, porpoises
Even-toed ungulates: pigs, hippopotamuses, camels, deer, giraffes II
Odd-toed ungulates: horses, rhinoceroses, tapirs
Chirophtera: bats
Carnivores: cats, bears, seals, dog-likes

What kind of bird:
This one I had to trim down massively. even if I just went out and eliminated everything I didn't know myself, there's still just too many groups of birds left.

Waterfowl (Ducks, geese, swans, grebes)
Fowl (Turkeys, chickens, pheasants)
Gulls and waders (snipes, gulls, terns, puffins, plovers)
Albatrosses and petrels
Penguins
Pelican-likes: Pelicans, frigatebirds, cormorants I
Stork-likes: storks, herons, ibises
Vultures: vultures, condors
Flamingoes
Raptors: hawks, eagles, kites, buzzards, ospreys I
Doves and pigeons
Parrots: cockatoos, parrots, lorikeets, budgies
Cuculiformes: cuckoos, roadrunners, hoatzin, turacos
Owls I
Apodiformes: swifts and hummingbirds
Kingfishers: kingfishers, bee-eaters, hornbills
Woodpeckers
Songbirds (non-corvid passerines, pretty much, for this contest)
Corvids

radmelon
2012-11-10, 11:50 AM
Primates and Raptors

Eldan
2012-11-10, 12:14 PM
You want Lemur ospreys?

radmelon
2012-11-10, 12:18 PM
I was thinking more chimphawks. :smallcool:

dethkruzer
2012-11-10, 12:23 PM
Even-toed ungulates and Owls

Eldan
2012-11-10, 01:42 PM
Hm. The mighty Cowl... :smalltongue:

Eldan
2012-11-10, 01:57 PM
Here, for you.

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/2307/cimg1689s.jpg

Keynub
2012-11-10, 01:58 PM
Even-toed ungulates and Pelicans.

Gotta love a flying cow.

THEChanger
2012-11-10, 04:34 PM
Corvids and Carnivores.

I like my ravens, and nothing says Native American Spirit Dream like a coyote covered in feathers.

Lyndworm
2012-11-10, 06:33 PM
I've taken the liberty of formating your lists into nice, neat tables, Eldan. No offense is intended, but feel free to use them if you like. Note, however, that they've not been updated from the OP/Post 19, and so will likely need to be modified.

Tables inside:
Animal Groups:
{table=head]
Category |
Example Creatures |
Votes

Arthropod | Spiders, scorpions, lobsters, crabs, insects, millipedes, etc. |
4

Amphibian | Frogs, toads, salamanders. |
0

Bird | You know those. They taste like chicken. |
5

Echinoderm | Starfish. And only starfish. |
3

Fish | They swim. They might be sharks. |
2

Mammal | Mice, elephants, monotremes, and everything in between. |
5

Mollusc | Slimey things. Snails, squids, octopodes, mussels, clams. |
2

Reptile | Crocodiles, lizards, snakes. |
1[/table]

What kind of Mammal:
{table=head]
Category |
Example Creatures |
Votes

Insectivores | Shrews, aardvarks, moles, hedgehogs. |
0

Paenungulata | Elephants, manatees, dugongs. |
0

Xenarthra | Sloths, armadillos, ant-eaters. |
0

Primates | Lemurs, monkeys, non-human apes. |
1

Lagomorpha | Hares, rabbits. |
0

Rodents | Mice, rats, squirrels, hamsters. |
0

Cetacea | Whales, dolphins, porpoises. |
0

Even-Toed Ungulates | Pigs, hippopotamuses, camels, deer, giraffes. |
2

Odd-Toed Ungulates | Horses, rhinoceroses, tapirs. |
0

Chirophtera | Bats. |
0

Carnivores | Cats, bears, seals, dog-likes. |
0[/table]

What kind of Bird:
This one I had to trim down massively. Even if I just went out and eliminated everything I didn't know myself, there's still just too many groups of birds left.
{table=head]
Category |
Example Creatures |
Votes

Waterfowl | Ducks, geese, swans, grebes. |
0

Fowl | Turkeys, chickens, pheasants. |
0

Gulls & Waders | Snipes, gulls, terns, puffins, plovers. |
0

Procellariiforms | Albatrosses and petrels. |
0

Penguins | You know these. |
0

Pelican-likes | Pelicans, frigatebirds, cormorants. |
1

Stork-likes | Storks, herons, ibises. |
0

Vultures | Vultures, condors. |
0

Flamingos | These, too. |
0

Raptors | Hawks, eagles, kites, buzzards, ospreys. |
1

Pigeons | Pigeons, doves. |
0

Parrots | Cockatoos, parrots, lorikeets, budgies. |
0

Cuculiformes | Cuckoos, roadrunners, hoatzin, turacos |
0

Owls | True and barn. |
1

Apodiformes | Swifts and hummingbirds. |
0

Kingfishers | Kingfishers, bee-eaters, hornbills. |
0

Woodpeckers | Come on, now. |
0

Songbirds | Non-corvid passerines, pretty much, for this contest. |
0

Corvids | Ravens, choughs, jays, magpies. |
0[/table]

I'll cast my vote for Rodents and Ratites. I know, they're not on the list. They should be. :smalltongue:

If you feel like both adding ratites and using the tables, here's an entry for them that you can copy/paste into the list:

Ratites | Ostriches, emus, cassowaries, rheas, and kiwis. |
1

Eldan
2012-11-10, 06:35 PM
Wow. That I shouldn't have forgotten, yeah. I'll build you a Squimu tomorrow.

Howler Dagger
2012-11-10, 06:39 PM
I vote Xenarthra and Owl

Lyndworm
2012-11-10, 06:41 PM
Squirrel x Emu? That sounds pretty cool. :smallbiggrin:

I'm not sure whether I'd prefer a squirrel from the Pteromyini tribe or not... A "flying" flightless bird would be hilarious, though. :smalltongue:

Eldan
2012-11-11, 05:48 AM
Does anyone know stats for an Emu/Ostrich or a squirrel anywhere? Not that I couldn't brew them myself (squirrels are slightly changed monkeys), but itwould save some time.

Lyndworm
2012-11-11, 06:26 AM
I don't think that WotC ever printed Ratite statistics, though I'm sure (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Ostrich_%283.5e_Creature%29) that someone on the Internet has already posted some homebrew stats (http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Dire_Ostrich_%283.5e_Monster%29).

The Fiend Folio has stats for a "terror bird," and the Arms & Equipment Guide has stats for an "axebeak." Both are Large sized and both are 3.0, though there is an update for the Fiend Folio.

The axebeak is specifically stated to be ostrich-like, if it helps.


Mechanically, squirrels and rats are probably interchangeable. Maybe drop the swim speed/Swim skill bonus and increase the land and climb speeds to 20ft with a Jump skill bonus.

RollynT.Glal
2012-11-11, 02:06 PM
Voting for Penguins and Insectivores. If I may be more specific Macaroni Penguins and Star-Nosed Moles, for no other reason than they're both the most flamboyant of their families.

Eldan
2012-11-11, 04:04 PM
Here we go. The picture is pretty bad, I didn't have much time. Sorry.


Grey Squimu

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/2984/cimg1695.jpg

Medium Animal
HD 2d8+4 (13 hp)
Speed 50 ft. (10 squares)
Init: +2
AC 13; touch 12; flat-footed 11
(+1 natural, +2 dex)
BAB +1; Grp +2
Attack Kick +2 (1d6+1 bludgeoning and slashing) or bite +2 (1d3+1 slashing and piercing)
Full-Attack Kick +2 (1d6+1 bludgeoning and slashing) and bite -2 (1d3+1 slashing and piercing)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 0 ft.
Special Attacks -
Special Qualities Up the wall
Saves Fort +5 Ref +5 Will +1
Abilities Str 13, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 6
Skills Balance+6*, Spot +6
Feats Run , Endurance [B], Power Attack
[b]Environment Lightly forested tropical and subtropical savannahs
Organization Solitary or troupe (2-8)
Challenge Rating 1
Alignment True Neutral
Advancement 3-5 HD (medium), 6-9 HD (large)

*Squimus have a +4 racial bonus to balancing due to their strong, dextrous feet

Up the Wall (ex): Squimus do not truly climb, as one might assume. Instead, they have mastered the trick of running up sheer surfaces at full speed. If they have moved at least half their land speed on flat ground already, they can spend a second move action to move up to their land speed up any sheer surface, as long as they end in a place where they can stand and balance, such as a branch.

Squimus are animals of the lightly forested grasslands and savannahs. They are extremely fast and persistent runners that have been known to outrun horses on longer journeys.
What sets them apart from many other savannah animals with similar lifestyles is that the Squimus are able to, and in fact like, to spend a good deal of time in the treetops. While the ycan not truly climb, due to their short and rather weak arms, they are able to gather momentum on flat ground and then simply speed up a tree, to then perch on branches, where they eat and sleep before moving on again when an area is cleared of food.
For their diets, Squimus prefer fruit and nuts they gather from trees, using their arms to hold the nuts and their sharp teeth to crack them, but will also eat insects and seeds from the ground.
One extraordinary thing about Squimus is their excellent memory. In times of abundance, they dig shallow holes between the roots of trees, using their strong, clawed legs. These holes are filled with nuts and fruits, then cowered with lose dirt. Since Squimus journey along the same routes every year, they will then uncover these hoardes in later years.
For reproduction, Squimus form temporary pairs. The male and female build a treetop nest of twigs together. After mating, the female will lay three to six fist-sized, bright green eggs.

Squimus can be used as mounts for small-sized or smaller creatures and, in fact, make excellent mounts for scouts and shock troops, due to their endurance and high speed.

Eldan
2012-11-11, 04:11 PM
What kind of Mammal:
{table=head]
Category |
Example Creatures |
Votes

Insectivores | Shrews, aardvarks, moles, hedgehogs. |
1

Paenungulata | Elephants, manatees, dugongs. |
0

Xenarthra | Sloths, armadillos, ant-eaters. |
3

Primates | Lemurs, monkeys, non-human apes. |
1

Lagomorpha | Hares, rabbits. |
0

Rodents | Mice, rats, squirrels, hamsters. |
2

Cetacea | Whales, dolphins, porpoises. |
0

Even-Toed Ungulates | Pigs, hippopotamuses, camels, deer, giraffes. |
2

Odd-Toed Ungulates | Horses, rhinoceroses, tapirs. |
0

Chirophtera | Bats. |
0

Carnivores | Cats, bears, seals, dog-likes. |
1[/table]

What kind of Bird:
This one I had to trim down massively. Even if I just went out and eliminated everything I didn't know myself, there's still just too many groups of birds left.
{table=head]
Category |
Example Creatures |
Votes

Waterfowl | Ducks, geese, swans, grebes. |
0

Fowl | Turkeys, chickens, pheasants. |
0

Gulls & Waders | Snipes, gulls, terns, puffins, plovers. |
0

Procellariiforms | Albatrosses and petrels. |
0

Penguins | You know these. |
1

Pelican-likes | Pelicans, frigatebirds, cormorants. |
1

Stork-likes | Storks, herons, ibises. |
0

Vultures | Vultures, condors. |
1

Flamingos | These, too. |
0

Raptors | Hawks, eagles, kites, buzzards, ospreys. |
1

Pigeons | Pigeons, doves. |
0

Parrots | Cockatoos, parrots, lorikeets, budgies. |
0

Cuculiformes | Cuckoos, roadrunners, hoatzin, turacos |
0

Owls | True and barn. |
3

Apodiformes | Swifts and hummingbirds. |
1

Kingfishers | Kingfishers, bee-eaters, hornbills. |
0

Woodpeckers | Come on, now. |
0

Songbirds | Non-corvid passerines, pretty much, for this contest. |
0

Ratites | Ostriches, emus, cassowaries, rheas, and kiwis. |
1

Corvids | Ravens, choughs, jays, magpies. |
1[/table][/spoiler]

Aldreck
2012-11-11, 04:58 PM
Vulture/Xenarthra.

Amechra
2012-11-11, 06:01 PM
Xenarthra/Apodiform

Yes, I want Hummingsloths, the fastest slow creature ever!

3WhiteFox3
2012-11-11, 10:51 PM
Rodent/Owl

Eldan
2012-11-12, 08:56 AM
Table updated. I'm giving this a few more hours until I get home. However, the current leader is Xenarthra/Owl.

Eldan
2012-11-12, 12:48 PM
Polls closed. Xenarthra/Owl it is.

One last poll, then. I don't think owls are all that different in game characteristics, but if you have a favourite, feel free to vote on a look. I'll also add some extinct forms, since extinct Xenarthra are fun.

What kind of Xenarthra will be mixed with an owl?
Armadillo
Glyptodon (Extinct giant armadillo)
Modern Sloth
Extinct Giant Land Sloth
Anteater

radmelon
2012-11-12, 12:52 PM
Giant land sloth

dethkruzer
2012-11-12, 01:16 PM
Armadillo

EDIT: For the Owl aspect, I'd go with the Long-eared Owl

Aldreck
2012-11-12, 01:32 PM
Armadillo!

Keynub
2012-11-12, 01:49 PM
My vote goes to the Armadillo.
As for the owl's aspect, my preference goes to the Snowy Owl.

Dracomortis
2012-11-12, 09:17 PM
Voting for Glyptodon.

THEChanger
2012-11-12, 11:36 PM
Giant Land Sloth

Because you always vote for the Giant Land Sloth when you have the opportunity.

Temotei
2012-11-13, 01:45 AM
Armadillo and snowy owl for the owl's aspect.

3WhiteFox3
2012-11-13, 11:51 PM
Armadillo; owl preference: Snowy Owl.

Lyndworm
2012-11-14, 02:17 AM
Here we go. The picture is pretty bad, I didn't have much time. Sorry.

*snip*
All of that is awesome. All of it.



I'll throw my vote to Armadillo, preferably a pink fairy, as they're adorable and awesome.

Eldan
2012-11-14, 09:51 AM
Calling it. I don't think I even need to count, it's an Owlmadillo. Armadillowl? Nah. Owlmadillo.

Specifically, the Snowfairy Owlmadillo, though I must say that I can't really draw "cute".

So many body plans. Winged Armadillo with owl head? Armoured body, clawed front legs, owl head? Owl with armadillo head? Four owl legs? Choices, choices.

Amechra
2012-11-14, 10:03 AM
Owl with an armadillo shell over it's body, and wings that are more leathery than feathery?

radmelon
2012-11-14, 10:04 AM
Perhaps it hunts by curling up and dropping on its prey. *CLONK*

Eldan
2012-11-14, 10:30 AM
Awesome, I'll do that.

Eldan
2012-11-14, 02:21 PM
So, apparently, Fairy Armadillos don't roll.

Guess what. I don't care.

Eldan
2012-11-14, 03:31 PM
Picture didn't turn out so well. You can hardly tell where the scales and where the feathers are. Oh, well.

Snowfairy Owlmadillo

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/618/cimg1699e.jpg
Tiny Magical Beast
HD 1d10+2 (7 HP)
Speed 10 ft. (2 squares); Fly 30 ft. (average), Burrow (10 ft.)
Init: +2
AC 18; touch 13; flat-footed 17
(+1 dex, +5 natural, +2 size)
BAB +1; Grp -10
Attack Talons +4 melee (1d4-3)
Full-Attack Talons +4 melee (1d4-3)
Space 2.5 ft.; Reach 2.5 ft.
Special Attacks Drop
Special Qualities Low-light vision, Darkvision 60 ft., Blindsense 20 ft.
Saves Fort +4, Ref +3, Will +2
Abilities Str 4, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 6
Skills Listen +12*, Move Silently +1/+9*, Spot +6
Feats Weapon Finesse , Alertness
[b]Environment Temperate Forests
Organization Solitary
Challenge Rating 1/2
Treasure None
Alignment True Neutral
Advancement 2-3 HD (small), 4-5 HD (medium), 6 HD (large)


*Snowfairy Owlmadillos have a +8 racial bonus on listen and move silently checks.

Drop (ex): As a full-round action while flying, Snowfairy Owlmadillos can roll their entire body into an armoured shell and drop on their enemies with bone-breaking force.
As part of this attack, the Owlmadillo must be flying at least 30 feet above an enemy, then drop into their enemy's space. This attack deals 1d6 bludgeoning damage to the enemy, who can make a reflex save (DC 12, this is wisdom-dependent) to avoid the attack.
While doing this, the Owlmadillo ignores all falling damage from the first 40 feet of its fall.

Owlmadillos are the only known members of the Order Strigixenarthra or strange-jointed owls, as they are also known in the common tongue. These birds are armoured in a suit of overlapping leathery scale that covers most of their bodies except for the wings and faces: their backs, stomachs, back of the neck and even top of the head. Only the wings, faces and tails are feathered as in the owls they closely resemble.
The Snowfairy Owlmadillo is the smallest and by far most vividly coloured of all the Owlmadillos. Where most are just mottled in a mixture of light and darker brown shades, the Snowfairy owlmadillo has feathers of pure white with black stripes and a black-and-pink checkered back armour. No one quite knows what the meaning of that strange colouration is, as it can certainly not serve any function in camouflage. Everything from the jest of some strange god to fey intervention to sexual selection has been suggested.
Owlmadillos spend most of their lives on the ground, except for when they need to flee or hunt. Their legs are outfitted with long, broad and very strong claws, which they use to dig shallow burrows in the ground. While nesting, the female will spend most of its time lying in the entrance to the nest curled into a tight ball, presenting only its leathery shell to the outside, thus serving as kind of armoured plug closing off the entrance.
The shell of an Owlmadillo is relatively heavy. While certainly protective, it makes flying for long stretches of time tiring to these beasts. However, there is another advantage to it: Owlmadillos can curl into a tight sphere even in midair between wingbeats and drop on unsuspecting prey or predators from a great height, killing them. Naturalists have found everything from Toadshrews over Foxadders to fully grown Crocodeer in the characteristic craters left behind by Owlmadillo impacts.

Eldan
2012-11-16, 10:45 AM
Been sick, feeling better now, Owlmadillo fluff is up, gogo round two!

Animal Groups:
{table=head]
Category |
Example Creatures |
Votes

Arthropod | Spiders, scorpions, lobsters, crabs, insects, millipedes, etc. |
0

Amphibian | Frogs, toads, salamanders. |
0

Bird | You know those. They taste like chicken. |
0

Echinoderm | Starfish. And only starfish. |
0

Fish | They swim. They might be sharks. |
0

Mammal | Mice, elephants, monotremes, and everything in between. |
0

Mollusc | Slimey things. Snails, squids, octopodes, mussels, clams. |
0

Reptile | Crocodiles, lizards, snakes. |
0[/table]


I'm also starting up an index.

dethkruzer
2012-11-16, 11:48 AM
assuming it's the "pick two", then I'll go with Arthropod and Echinoderm

Blightedmarsh
2012-11-16, 11:54 AM
I vote Mollusk and Mammal.

Attack of the 50' dirigible squid-bat.

Debihuman
2012-11-16, 02:20 PM
Since you mentioned them in the Owlmadillo's fluff, how about: toadshrews, foxadders and crocodeer? Kudos on a really great owlmadillo. The only info you missed was weight and perhaps height. I imagine these weigh more than a bowling ball if they can take out a crocodeer. :-)

Debby

radmelon
2012-11-16, 04:51 PM
Arthropod and mammal.

Eldan
2012-11-16, 05:16 PM
As you wish...

Foxadder
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/7571/cimg1707s.jpg

Small Animal (Reptilian)
HD 2d8 +2 (11 hp)
Speed 20 ft. (4 squares); swim 20 ft., climb 20 ft. burrow 20 ft.
Init: +7
AC 16; touch 14; flat-footed 13
(+1 size, +3 dex, +2 natural)
BAB +1; Grp -5
Attack Bite +4 (1d6-2 plus poison)
Full-Attack Bite +4 (1d6-2 plus poison)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks Poison
Special Qualities Scent, Low-light vision
Saves Fort +4 Ref +6 Will +1
Abilities Str 7, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 5
Skills Balance +11, Climb +11, Listen +10, Spot +5, Survival +1*, Swim +6
Feats Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse (B), Track (B), Improved Natural Weapon: Bite (B)
Environment Temperate Forests
Organization Solitary
Challenge Rating 1
Treasure Hide, 5 gold pieces
Alignment True Neutral
Advancement --

*Foxadders have a +8 racial bonus to all climb, balance and swim checks, and a +4 racial bonus to listen and spot checks and survival checks made to track prey.

Poison (ex): Fort DC 11 (constitution-based), 1d6/1d6 constitution damage.

RollynT.Glal
2012-11-16, 06:08 PM
Votes for the Bird and Mammal!

Points for the fastest animal ever the Peregrine Cheetah!

Dracomortis
2012-11-16, 08:13 PM
Arthropod and Bird.

Aldreck
2012-11-17, 04:49 AM
Arthropod/Reptile

Debihuman
2012-11-17, 09:21 AM
Just because I think all hybrid animals should be written as magical beasts here's the changes I made.

Note: The Reptilian Subtype is only ever used with the Humanoid type. New creatures never need the improved natural weapon feat to explain their attacks, only advanced creatures should have that.
Poison DC is 10 + 1/2 creature's HD + Con modifier. 10 +1 +1 = 12. Treasure for animals is usually None. An intact hide might be worth 5 gp but if you kill one in combat, you've almost certainly ruined it. That information belongs in the description rather than in treasure.
You should add that foxadders use their Dexterity modifier to make Climb checks under skills section.


Foxadder
Small Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 2d10 +2 (13 hp)
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares); swim 20 ft., climb 20 ft. burrow 20 ft.
Initiative: +7
Armor Class: 16 (+1 size, +3 Dex, +2 natural); touch 14; flat-footed 13
BAB/Grapple: +2/-4
Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d6-2 plus poison)
Full Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d6-2 plus poison)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Poison
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +4 Ref +6 Will +1
Abilities: Str 7, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 5
Skills: Balance +11, Climb +11, Listen +6, Spot +6, Survival +1 (+5 to track prey), Swim +6
Feats :Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse (B), Track (B)
Environment: Temperate Forests
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 1
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Neutral
Advancement:

Foxadders rely on their venomous bite to kill prey and defend themselves. An intact foxadder skin is worth 5 gp.

Poison (Ex): Injury, Fortitude DC 12, initial and secondary damage of 1d6 Con. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Skills: Foxadders have a +8 racial bonus to all Climb, Balance and Swim checks, and a +4 racial bonus to Listen and Spot checks and to Survival checks made to track prey. Foxadders use their Dexterity modifier for Climb checks.

Debby

THEChanger
2012-11-17, 04:23 PM
Arthropods and Reptiles.

Eldan
2012-11-18, 12:48 PM
Counting the votes...

Animal Groups:
{table=head]Category | Example Creatures | Votes
Arthropod | Spiders, scorpions, lobsters, crabs, insects, millipedes, etc. | 0
Amphibian | Frogs, toads, salamanders. | 0
Bird | You know those. They taste like chicken. | 0
Echinoderm | Starfish. And only starfish. | 0
Fish | They swim. They might be sharks. | 0
Mammal | Mice, elephants, monotremes, and everything in between. | 0
Mollusc | Slimey things. Snails, squids, octopodes, mussels, clams. | 0
Reptile | Crocodiles, lizards, snakes. | 0
[/table]

And we have an Arthropod Mammal.

Vote one each:

What kind of Mammal:
{table=head]
Category |
Example Creatures |
Votes

Insectivores | Shrews, aardvarks, moles, hedgehogs. |
0

Paenungulata | Elephants, manatees, dugongs. |
0

Xenarthra | Sloths, armadillos, ant-eaters. |
0

Primates | Lemurs, monkeys, non-human apes. |
0

Lagomorpha | Hares, rabbits. |
0

Rodents | Mice, rats, squirrels, hamsters. |
0

Cetacea | Whales, dolphins, porpoises. |
0

Even-Toed Ungulates | Pigs, hippopotamuses, camels, deer, giraffes. |
0

Odd-Toed Ungulates | Horses, rhinoceroses, tapirs. |
0

Chirophtera | Bats. |
0

Carnivores | Cats, bears, seals, dog-likes. |
0[/table]


What kind of Arthropod:
{table=head]
Category |
Example Creatures |
Votes

Trilobite| Extinct, but very cool looking |
0

Arachnids | Spiders, Scorpions, Mites, various things that look like spiders |
0

Myriapods | Centipedes and millipedes |
0

Crustaceans | Shrimps, barnacles, crabs, lobsters, krill, woodlice |
0

Insects | Tons of cute creepy crawlies |
0
[/table]

Debihuman
2012-11-18, 01:51 PM
Insectivores and Myriapods because I think a hedgehog millipede mix would be interesting.

Debby

radmelon
2012-11-18, 01:53 PM
Rodents and arachnids, because spiderats are terrifying.

Volthawk
2012-11-18, 01:57 PM
Chirophtera and Trilobite.

Eldan
2012-11-18, 01:58 PM
Trilobats! Fantastic!

Aldreck
2012-11-18, 02:22 PM
Arachnid/Carnivore

dethkruzer
2012-11-18, 02:26 PM
Paenungulata and Trilobite

Blightedmarsh
2012-11-18, 02:44 PM
Lagomorpha And Crustation

Dracomortis
2012-11-18, 07:10 PM
Chirophtera and Arachnid

THEChanger
2012-11-18, 07:16 PM
Carnivores and Arachnids.

Wolfspider? No. Cheetah/Scorpion. *nods*

Lyndworm
2012-11-19, 08:19 AM
Sorry I missed round 2:1. :smallfrown: My vote goes for Primates and Myriapods, because I want a monkeypede.

I almost went with even-toed ungulates and crustaceans so we could see a moose-lobster (http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff291/MajorIsoor/Avatars%20etc/Nixon.jpg), but the heart wants what the heart wants.


New creatures never need the improved natural weapon feat to explain their attacks, only advanced creatures should have that.
As far as I know, the rest of the post is correct, but the part I quoted is not. Several Animals have the Improved Natural Attack feat, such as the cachalot whale, rhinoceros, tiger, and tyrannosaurus. If you count dire animals, the dire shark and dire tiger also have Improved Natural Attack. Those are all from the Monster Manual, I think; splatbooks are bound to include a few more.

Debihuman
2012-11-19, 10:40 AM
not[/i]. Several Animals have the Improved Natural Attack feat, such as the cachalot whale, rhinoceros, tiger, and tyrannosaurus. If you count dire animals, the dire shark and dire tiger also have Improved Natural Attack. Those are all from the Monster Manual, I think; splatbooks are bound to include a few more.

It is a wasted feat because as the designer of the creature you get to pick whatever attack you want for your creature.

Do you have any idea how many errors there are in the MM? If you look carefully, you'll also notice the cachalot whale is missing 2 skill points.

You have to increase the damage from something, but in initial creature design you have to pick damage.

I think WotC erred in using the Improved Natural Attack feat even though I can understand the reasoning behind it. They purposefully tried to match the real world animals as much as possible. The end result was that they hamstrung them. Is that a bad design? Not if you only use standard versions of the creature.

It makes more sense for 9 or 12 HD tiger to have Improved Natural since the tiger's size doesn't increase. BUT, you can't give it to them because they already have it. [As a DM this is what makes me gripe]

It also has the benefit of keeping the CR artificially low. A 16 HD dire tiger has a CR of 8. That's fine until you go to increase the HD. A 32 HD dire tiger can only bite for 2d6+Str bonus because of it. Who is going to be threatened by that? Exactly no one.

A similar problem exists for the cachalot whale. At 13-18 HD, the attack doesn't change but if you bump it for size at 19 HD it's tail slap does 2d6 damage plus Str damage. At 36 HD the sperm whale's tail slap is 2d6+Str bonus. It's just totally unremarkable. For natural animals, they're suppose to be that way, but not fantasy ones.

he feat can only be applied once to each attack. A since the tiger's claws and bite are already limited by that feat, there really is no reason to advance the creature as it stops being a challenge quickly.

And that is why it is a wasted feat. I'm not saying you can't use it but is that how you really want to design your creatures?

[Edit]I noticed you had no advancement for the foxadder, so if you want to keep the power level down, Improved Natural Attack is an easy way to do it. Is there a reason that they don't advance?

Debby

Eldan
2012-11-19, 10:54 AM
The advancement for the Foxadder was based on that of the Viper, which has every size category as a different creature.

Lyndworm
2012-11-19, 10:56 AM
I can't disagree with you, but apparently I can misunderstand you. :smalltongue: Somehow, I had gotten the impression that you thought that giving a basic creature Improved Natural Attack was objectively wrong, and that it hadn't been done (as opposed to shouldn't be done).

To further emphasize your point, the crocodile has above-average bite damage despite not having any feat or ability to raise it, so the concept was obviously not lost on whoever designed the Animals.

Debihuman
2012-11-19, 11:14 AM
To L: Thanks for the clarification.

To E: Can't wait to see what else you come up with.

Debby

P.S. I suspect that some designers at WotC were just better than others. If I were a betting person, I'd bet several different designers worked on Animals, which is why some work better than others.

P.P.S. I apologize for not being clearer about my objection to INA as an initial feat in my earlier post. This is one of my pet peeves with monster design. I'll try to be less vehement and more explanatory in the future. :smallcool:

havocfett
2012-11-19, 03:36 PM
Lagomorph Crustacean.

The Fearsome Bunnylobster sounds like a hilarious idea.

Eldan
2012-11-21, 03:09 PM
Been more than two days. Let's count.

Right. Tie-breaker vote. We have an Arachnid. Will it be an Arachnid-Lagomorph, Arachnid-Chrioptera or Arachnid-Carnivore?

Next vote counts.

Volthawk
2012-11-21, 03:15 PM
Arachnid-Chrioptera

Lyndworm
2012-11-21, 03:48 PM
Time for a bat-mite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat-Mite), I guess. :smalltongue:

Eldan
2012-11-23, 02:11 PM
Alright, then.

Chiroptera is bat. I'll accept cosmetic suggestions, and suggestions of all sizes between fine and medium. Might make this a swarm, too.

What Arachnid
{table=head]
Category |
Example Creatures |
Votes

Araneaomorphae | Most common spiders |
Mygalomorpha | Tarantulas and relatives |
Whip scorpions | Funny little things. Have no tails, but extremely long whips instead of forelegs. |
Scorpions | Stingy thingies |
Acari | mites |
[/table]

radmelon
2012-11-23, 02:24 PM
<edit> changed my vote to Acari

Blightedmarsh
2012-11-23, 02:41 PM
What about Eurypterid?; namely the extinct sea scorpions.

Lyndworm
2012-11-23, 02:57 PM
I think I'm going to go with Acari, despite my previous joke. As much as I love arachnids of all shapes and sizes (especially solifugids), I like the idea of a vampire tickbat getting so bulbous it can barely crawl away from its now-anemic victim.

Aldreck
2012-11-23, 03:49 PM
I like the idea of a vampire tickbat getting so bulbous it can barely crawl away from its now-anemic victim.

Seconded; put me down for Acari

THEChanger
2012-11-23, 06:14 PM
Scorpions. I love me some scorpions.

3WhiteFox3
2012-11-23, 06:54 PM
Scorpions. I love me some scorpions.

Seconded. Scorpion for me.

dethkruzer
2012-11-23, 07:17 PM
Whip Scorpion

Eldan
2012-11-27, 06:31 AM
Bat-mite it is!

Or Bat-tick, rather. I like the idea.