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danzibr
2012-11-16, 02:34 PM
Important: Big changes. This project has become much larger than I first expected. I'll make a new thread when I feel ready. Below is an excerpt from what I'll be posting.


General mechanics
- This post contains information not unique to any of the 3 base classes. Rather than repeating it 3 times, it is collected here.

- Mechanically speaking, flux is more like incarnum (or rather essentia, given how essentia is a being's personal store of incarnum) than anything else. Rather than pseudo-solidifying incarnum into soulmelds and making pseudo-magical items, flowists focus their flux to certain parts of their bodies, forming what are called fusions. The more flux they focus, the stronger the effects of the fusion, though every flowist has limits on both how much flux they can focus in a single fusion and how much flux they can focus in all their fusions collectively.

Flux: Flux flows through all living things, which is why Dina called it as such. Flux is similar to incarnum, though while “ncarnum is an amorphous magical substance made up of the soul energies of all sentient creatures—living, dead, and, it is theorized, those even not yet born” and “very literally, the essence of all creatures” and there is a “night-infinite supply in the multiverse” (MoI p. 4), flux is found only in living beings, and only inside of them, though through great mastery of one's flux it is possible to overcome that limitation.
- Each flowist experiences controlling their flux differently. Dina felt her flux like a red hot liquid coursing through her veins. Others see it is a cool, comforting light blue ether-like substance spread throughout their entire bodies. Yet others don't feel anything at all, only utilizing its effects.
- Flowists get a number of flux based on their flowist level and bonus flux based on either their Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma modifier based on which Path of Mastery they follow in conjunction with their flowist level as described in the tables below.
- The number of flux a flowist may focus into a single fusion is equal to the minimum of her flowist level and one more than twice her Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma modifier depending on if she follows the Path of the Mind, Will or the Heart, respectively. This may be increased with the feat Increased Flux Limit.
- Fly and Gentle Touch are the only two flux-related abilities which do not require the focus of flux, although flux may be focused into Gentle Touch to enhance its effects.
- At first level all flowists know how to fabricate internal fusions. Contemplative flowists can also fabricate mental fusions. All flowists gain the ability to fabricate surface and external fusions as their levels progress, but external fusions are dangerous and flowists don't have enough command of their flux to even attempt them until higher levels. Flux is related to a person's life force and naturally resides within the body, and as such forcing it outside has possible consequences.
- Every time a flowist attempts to fabricate an external fusion there is a chance of failure, When attempting to fabricate a fusion a flowist rolls 1d20 + her flowist level + twice her ability modifier against a DC of 21 + the amount of flux focused, where modifier is used to mean Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma modifier depending on if she follows the Path of the Mind, Will or the Heart, respectively. Upon failure she takes 1d6 damage per flux focused into the failed fusion. This damage cannot be prevented. The flux focused into the fusion goes back to its natural state, though it can be used the next time the flowist fabricates fusions.
- For example, a tenth level flowist with an Intelligence of 24 may safely focus up to 2 flux into external fusions but focusing 3 flux into an external fusion has a 5% chance of failure, upon which she takes 3d6 damage, focusing 4 flux into an external fusion has a 10% chance of failure, upon which she takes 4d6 damage, etc.

[i]Focusing flux and fabricating fusions: Flowists are unique in that they can focus their flux to be of use to them, forming fusions. Flowists may form as many fusions as they wish, limited only by their amount of flux. Unlike a psion's power points, flux is not consumed upon being focused into a fusion. A flowist's amount of flux changes with her dominant modifier and level, not needing eight hours of rest.
- First, for a flowist to fabricate fusions and focus her flux (these two actions happen simultaneously: for a fusion to be formed it must have flux focused into it) she needs a certain amount of time based on her class and level. She may do this while fighting or otherwise distracted. She makes a Concentration check (DC 10+flowist level) at the end of the time required to focus her flux. If she succeeds she may fabricate as many fusions as she wishes (which she knows) and focus as many flux into these fusions as she wishes (or the Fly and Gentle Touch abilities), up to her maximum flux, each individual fusion not having more than her flowist level. If she fails her flux goes back to its natural state, flowing throughout her body, and the fusions are not fabricated.
- After a flowist fabricates fusions and focuses her flux she may not do so again until a certain amount of time has passed, based on her class and level.
- All internal and surface fusions are passive. Once fabricated they provide a static bonus until the flowist refocuses her flux. Certain external and mental fusions are active and take effect in one of three ways, detailed in the fusion description: immediately upon being fabricated, discharged when the flowist wishes (in which case it must be fabricated again for further use), or used as many times as desired (essentially granting the flowist an at-will ability).
- After fabricating fusions and focusing flux a flowist may not do so again until the start of her next round.

Table 1: Bonus flux based on ability score
{table=head]Ability Score|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th|10th|11t h|12th|13th|14th|15th|16th|17th|18th|19th|20th

10-11|
0|
0|
0|
0|
0|
0|
0|
0|
0|
0|
0|
0|
0|
0|
0|
0|
0|
0|
0|
0

12-13|
0|
1|
1|
2|
2|
3|
3|
4|
4|
5|
5|
6|
6|
7|
7|
8|
8|
9|
9|
10

14-15|
1|
2|
3|
4|
5|
6|
7|
8|
9|
10|
11|
12|
13|
14|
15|
16|
17|
18|
19|
20

16-17|
1|
3|
4|
6|
7|
9|
10|
12|
13|
15|
16|
18|
19|
21|
22|
24|
25|
27|
28|
30

18-19|
2|
4|
6|
8|
10|
12|
14|
16|
18|
20|
22|
24|
26|
28|
30|
32|
34|
36|
38|
40

20-21|
2|
5|
7|
10|
12|
15|
17|
20|
22|
25|
27|
30|
32|
35|
37|
40|
42|
45|
47|
50

22-23|
3|
6|
9|
12|
15|
18|
21|
24|
27|
30|
33|
36|
39|
42|
45|
48|
51|
54|
57|
60

24-25|
3|
7|
10|
14|
17|
21|
24|
28|
31|
35|
38|
42|
45|
49|
52|
56|
59|
63|
66|
70

26-27|
4|
8|
12|
16|
20|
24|
28|
32|
36|
40|
44|
48|
52|
56|
60|
64|
68|
72|
76|
80
[/table]

Fly (Ex): Beginning at first level, all flowists learn how to fly. The speed at which a flowist moves is 5 per two levels of flowist, rounded up, with perfect maneuverability. Doing so requires her to assume a cross-legged stance with her hands on her knees to focus properly. While in this stance a flowist may not attack, cast spells, manifest powers or do any activity requiring the use of hands. This type of movement requires a standard action.
- Similar to Gentle Touch, a flowist may focus flux to improve their ability to fly, increasing the rate at which they fly by 5 feet per 2 flux focused, rounded down. In addition, with 5 flux focused she may fly without assuming the cross-legged stance. With 9 flux focused she may do this type of movement as a move action. With 13 flux focused she may incorporate this type of movement into her normal movement. When taking any action requiring movement, such as a five-foot step or charge, she may fly, using the lesser of the two maximum movements. For example, a level 16 flowist with 13 flux focused into her Fly ability and a base land speed of 50 feet can charge 100 feet on land (twice her land speed) or 70 feet flying (how far she can move with her Fly ability).
- Note Fly does not actually grant the flowist a flight speed and so is not improved by other feats or ability which increase movement speed.

Gentle Touch (Ex): Every flowist learns how to concentrate their flux into the tips of their fingers. Martial flowists also know how to do this to their melee weapons.
- Beginning at first level a flowist may use a standard action to make a melee touch attack against any foe within reach. This does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If she fails to touch her opponent, nothing happens. If she succeeds she deals 1d6 force damage (and so this can damage incorporeal creatures) per flowist two levels, rounded up. She can choose to have this ability deal an equal amount of nonlethal damage instead.
- In addition, she knocks her opponent back 5 feet per 1d6 damage dealt subject to the following constraints: for every size category larger than the flowist, the opponent is knocked back 10 fewer feet, and for every size category smaller than the flowist, the opponent is knocked back an addition 10 feet. If the opponent strikes a wall before being knocked back its full distance it takes an additional 1d4 damage per remaining 5 feet; this damage is bludgeoning if the surface is relatively smooth and piercing or slashing (or any combination of the three) otherwise, subject to the dungeon master's discretion. If she chooses to deal nonlethal damage her opponent is not knocked back.
- The opponent may make a Reflex save (DC 10+1/2 Flowist level+modifier) to reduce the distance knocked back, and consequently the damage received from being knocked back, by half, where modifier is used to mean Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma modifier depending on if she follows the Path of the Mind, Will or the Heart, respectively (see Path of Mastery below). Exceeding the DC by 5 or more results in no knock back. Creatures with more than two legs or which are otherwise exceptionally stable (such as Dwarves) gain a +4 bonus on this save when standing on the ground.
- Due to the nature of Gentle Touch, the flowist and her opponent must both be on the ground or both be flying. For example, a flowist may not fly over a grounded opponent and Gentle Touch them from above, knocking them into the ground. Furthermore, the flowist and her opponent cannot be in the same square, making Gentle Touch of little use for tiny or grappling flowists.
- For example, Heib, a fifth level human flowist using Gentle Touch would deal 3d6 force damage to any opponent he successfully touches. A medium opponent would be knocked back 15 feet, a large opponent 5 feet, a huge opponent not at all. If Heib is flanking a large opponent with a spiked wall, the opponent would take an initial 3d6 force damage then 1d4 piercing damage because it was not pushed back 5 feet. If the opponent makes its Reflex save then it would not be knocked back at all and so not suffer the 1d4 piercing damage.

- Furthermore, Gentle Touch may be improved by focusing flux into it with the following effects.

For every two flux focused above half the flowist's level, rounded up, Gentle Touch deals an additional 1d6 force damage.
For every flux focused up to half the flowist's level, rounded up, 1d6 of the force damage is converted to 1d6+1 cold damage. If half the flowist's level flux is focused the saving throw to resist being knocked back is a Fortitude save instead of a reflex save. For every two flux focused beyond half the flowist's level, rounded up, Gentle Touch deals an additional 1d6+1 cold damage.
For every flux focused up to half the flowist's level, rounded up, 1d6 of the force damage is converted to 1d6 electricity damage. For every two flux focused beyond half the flowist's level, rounded up, Gentle Touch deals an additional 1d6 electricity damage and the saving throw to resist being knocked back is increased by 1.
For every flux focused up to half the flowist's level, rounded up, 1d6 of the force damage is converted to 1d6+1 fire damage. For every two flux focused beyond half the flowist's level, rounded up, Gentle Touch deals an additional 1d6 fire damage.
For every flux focused up to half the flowist's level, rounded up, 1d6 of the force damage is converted to 1d6-1 sonic damage. For every two flux focused beyond half the flowist's level, rounded up, Gentle Touch deals an additional 1d6-1 sonic damage. The sonic damage ignores an object's hardness.
For every flux focused up to half the flowist's level, rounded up, 1d6 of the force damage is converted to 1d6 acid damage. For every two flux focused beyond half the flowist's level, rounded up, Gentle Touch deals an additional 1d6 acid damage. The acid, unless somehow neutralized, lasts for another round, dealing another 1d3 points of damage per two flux focused in that round.


Path of Mastery: At first level a flowist must choose her approach to learning how to control her flux. In reality, all flowists use a blend of the three, but one is always their primary method.
-- Mind-Dina, the first flowist, mastered her flux through pure intellect, separating her imagination and feelings from her logic. The Path of the Mind is sometimes called the Path of Intellect or the First Path of Mastery, the latter because it was how the first flowist wielded her flux.
- Flowists who follow the Path of the Mind use their Intelligence modifier to determine their bonus flux. They add the skills Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (nature) and Knowledge (the planes) to their list of class skills.
-- Will-Dina originally thought the only way to control one's flux was by one's intellect. She tried to teach some exceptionally unintelligent people how to master their flux, not expecting them to ever be able to advance very far. Much to her surprise, some of them did very well, doing much better than her brighter students. It turns out they were using their willpower, perception and intuition. The Path of Will is sometimes called the Second Path of Mastery.
- Flowists who follow the Path of Will use their Wisdom modifier to determine their bonus flux. They add the skills Heal, Sense Motive and Survival to their list of class skills.
-- Heart-The most recent and fewest flowists follow the Path of the Heart. They control their flux not using cold reason and logic nor willpower and intuition but something else. Not even followers of the Path of the Heart can clearly articulate how they wield their flux.
- Flowists who follow the Path of Will use their Charisma modifier to determine their bonus flux. They add the skills Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate to their list of class skills.


Flowist

"It burns through my veins like liquid metal."
-Dina, the first flowist

Adventures: Flowists typically adventure for one of two reasons: to perfect themselves or to better those around them. There are outliers interested only in their own gain, from mercenaries selling their skills to those who become wicked tyrants, but a majority behave more like neutral or good monks or even paladins and wouldn't acknowledge the former as true flowists.
- As flowists gain experience and accumulate wealth they naturally are able to handle more challenging encounters, though they main goal remains the same: self-perfection. Most flowists have other aims, such as doing good deeds for their communities, but the path of the flowist is one which demands self-reflective fusion.

Characteristics: Flowists are characterized by their unique ability to control their flux. Their two trademark abilities are Fly and Gentle Touch, allowing them to slowly levitate themselves around and knock foes back with a single touch, respectively. As flowists gain experience they master more methods of using their flux and become more versatile.

Alignment: Taught by Dina, directly or indirectly, most flowists are lawful good, though many neutral good and lawful neutral flowists may be found. Depending on how they approach mastering their flux some are drawn toward chaotic alignments, leading to any alignment being found among flowists.

Religion: While most flowists are naturally drawn to lawful and good deities, there is nothing inherent in learning how to wield one's flux which demands the worship of any deity at all.

Background: The first flowist was Dina. Dina grew up in a monastery, training from a young age to become a monk. Like any group of good monks, they strove to perfect their minds as well as their bodies, and Dina was no different; in fact, Dina's devotion impressed her elders. She surpassed all of her peers, developing abilities no other at the monastery possessed.
- Before long Dina left her childhood home in hopes of perfecting herself. She had many adventurers, gaining fame and followers. She taught others how to control their flux, and they others, leading to the dissemination of flowists into the world.
- Flowists aren't required to wear a certain outfit or worship a certain deity. While many take after Dina and are both lawful and good, the only truly unifying bond they have is their desire for self-perfection. Many people mistake some flowists for monks, though some flowists are nothing like monks. Flowists can be found all over the world.
- Regarding the name flowist, Dina originally called herself a flower until she realized there was an alternate and much more common pronunciation of the word 'flower'. Likewise, she originally called flux flow until she realized flow is common vernacular.

Races: Dina, the first known person to learn how to use flux, was a human living in a monastery of mostly other humans. As such, most flowists are human, though Dina traveled far and wide teaching those willing to learn and so flowists made be found in almost any race. The exception is that only living creatures have flux and can become flowists.

Other Classes: Most flowists interact well with monks as they understand each other, but they don't complement each other's abilities very well. A flowist works best in a party which already has a strong spell caster and skill monkey.

Role: Flowists are primarily melee offense. Their fusions provide them with some moderate utility and respectable defense, but their strongest feature is by far their ability to deal damage.

Game rule information
Flowists have the following game statistics
Abilities: While flowists are primarily a martial class, they may specialize in various forms of combat, some demanding a high Strength, others high Dexterity. To supplement their relatively low hit die, Constitution helps any flowist. All flowists benefit from having at least one high mental stat, chosen at character creation, reflecting their method of harnessing their flux.

Alignment: Any.

Hit Die: d8.

Starting Gold: 3d4x10 gp.

Starting Age: As monk.

Class Skills
A flowist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str) and Tumble (Dex). In addition, a Flowist gains access to additional class skills based on her Path of Mastery:
Path of the Mind: Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int) and Knowledge (the planes) (Int).
Path of Will: Heal (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis) and Survival (Wis).
Path of the Heart: Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha) and Intimidate (Cha).

Skill Points at 1st Level: (4+Int modifier)x4.

Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4+Int modifier.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the flowist.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Flowists are not proficient with any weapons. Flowists are proficient with leather armor, but not with shields.

Table 2: Original flowist class progression by level
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Flux|Fusions Known

1st|
+0|
+2|
+2|
+2|Fly, Gentle Touch, Internal Fusions, Path of Mastery, Unarmed Strike, 10 minute focus|
2|
1

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+3|
+3|Surface Fusions|
6|
2

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+3| |
10|
3

4th|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+4|1 minute focus|
16|
4

5th|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+4| |
23|
5

6th|
+4|
+5|
+5|
+5| |
32|
6

7th|
+5|
+5|
+5|
+5|full-round action focus|
42|
7

8th|
+6/+1|
+6|
+6|
+6| |
53|
8

9th|
+6/+1|
+6|
+6|
+6| |
65|
9

10th|
+7/+2|
+7|
+7|
+7|standard action focus|
80|
10

11th|
+8/+3|
+7|
+7|
+7| |
96|
11

12th|
+9/+4|
+8|
+8|
+8| |
114|
12

13th|
+9/+4|
+8|
+8|
+8|move action focus|
133|
13

14th|
+10/+5|
+9|
+9|
+9| |
153|
14

15th|
+11/+6/+1|
+9|
+9|
+9| |
176|
15

16th|
+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+10|
+10|swift action focus|
199|
16

17th|
+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+10|
+10| |
225|
17

18th|
+13/+8+3|
+11|
+11|
+11| |
280|
18

19th|
+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+11|
+11|free action focus|
280|
19

20th|
+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+12|
+12|Flow Freely|
309|
20[/table]

Monk-like: Flowist counts as monk for the purposes of racial favored classes.

Flux: As detailed above. Refer to the original flowist's table to determine how long it takes her to fabricate fusions and focus flux.

Fly (Ex): As detailed above.

Gentle Touch (Ex): As detailed above.

Path of Mastery: As detailed above.

Unarmed Strike: At first level, a flowist gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A flowist’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a flowist may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a flowist striking unarmed. A flowist may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes.
- Usually a flowist’s unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but she can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on her attack roll. She has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.
- A flowist’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
- A flowist also deals more damage with her unarmed strikes than a normal person would, identical to that of a monk of her level.

Flow Freely: At twentieth level a flowist has complete mastery over her flux. Double her total flux (this includes base flux, bonus flux from a high stat modifier and bonus flux from other sources such as the feat Bonus Flux).
- Also, rather than using Gentle Touch as a standard action, a flowist may incorporate it into her unarmed attacks. For example, when a level 20 flowist charges an opponent she receives the usual +2 bonus to attack for charging. If she hits her foe, she deals damage as normal and may also deal 10d6 force damage and knock her foe back 50 feet (in addition to any extra effects from focusing flux into Gentle Touch), subject to size.


Fusions

When likening fusions to spells, all fusions have a casting time of however long it takes the flowist to focus. The range of all internal and surface fusions are personal (and hence have no area) while the range and area of external fusions vary. For duration, internal and surface fusions persist as long as they have flux focused in them while passive external fusions either last a number of rounds per flowist level, after which the check to see if the flowist successfully fabricates the fusion must be made again (in the case of Antimagic Field) or their duration is instantaneous (in the case of Teleport).
- All fusions are extraordinary abilities.

Internal

Alacrity
Passive, internal
This fusion sharpens a flowist's mind and body, allowing her great speed.
- Fabricating this fusion has several effects. She gets a 5 foot insight bonus to her base speed per 1 flux focused up to a 20 foot bonus with 4 flux. Focusing 5 flux gives her the effects of the Blur spell in addition to the speed bonus. Focusing 6 flux gives an additional 5 foot bonus to speed. Focusing 7 flux gives her all the effects of the Haste spell except for the speed bonus. Focusing 8, 9 or 10 flux gives additional bonuses to speed at 5 feet per flux focused.
- Focusing 11 flux gives her an extra swift action. Focusing 13 flux gives her an extra move action. Focusing 15 flux gives her an extra standard action. Focusing 17 flux gives her an extra full action. Unlike other fusions, a flowist may get an extra action this way only once per encounter, and once flux is focused to attain an extra action it remains focused for the rest of the encounter.
- For example, a seventeenth level flowist may focus 10 flux to receive a 40 foot insight bonus to her speed and the effects of Blur and Haste. If she focuses 7 more flux into this fusion she receives a single extra full action but the 7 flux may not be focused into a different fusion until the encounter is over.

Flowing Initiative
Passive, internal
While often calm and contemplative, flowists realize acting first can mean the difference between life and death, and fortunately by sharpening their senses and bodies they can act more quickly than normal.
- A flowist may focus flux into this fusion to get a +1 insight bonus to her initiative per 2 flux focused.

Flowing Recovery
Passive, internal
One's flux is directly tied to their life energy. A flowist may use her flow to stimulate her body into recovering at an incredibly rapid rate.
- A flowist may focus x flux into this fusion to get fast healing x/4, rounded up.

Increased Strength
Passive, internal
A basic use of flux which all flowists learn is to make themselves stronger. Unlike spells and other effects which simply give the user bigger muscles, fabricating this fusion makes the muscles more effective, helping them to realize their true potential.
- A flowist may focus flux into this fusion to get a +1 insight bonus to Strength per 3 flux focused.

Increased Dexterity
Passive, internal
Like the fusion Increased Strength, flowists know how to make themselves swifter.
- A flowist may focus flux to get a +1 insight bonus to Dexterity per 3 flux focused.

Increased Constitution
Passive, internal
Like the fusion Increased Strength, flowists know how to make themselves hardier.
- A flowist may focus flux to get a +1 insight bonus to Constitution per 3 flux focused.

Increased Intelligence
Passive, internal
Like the fusion Increased Strength, flowists know how to make their minds clearer and work more efficiently.
- A flowist may focus flux to get a +1 insight bonus to Intelligence per 3 flux focused.

Increased Wisdom
Passive, internal
Like the fusion Increased Strength, flowists know how to grant themselves greater willpower, intuition and perception.
- A flowist may focus flux to get a +1 insight bonus to Wisdom per 3 flux focused.

Increased Charisma
Passive, internal
Like the fusion Increased Strength, flowists know how to improve their personality, persuasiveness and physical attractiveness.
- A flowist may focus flux to get a +1 insight bonus to Charisma per 3 flux focused.

Mental Bastion
Passive, internal
Flowists are known for great mental strength, whether intelligent, wise or charismatic. From early on in their training they learn to protect their minds from certain adverse conditions.
- Fabricating this fusion provides the flowist with immunities to certain mental status effects. By focusing 2 flux into this fusion she becomes immune to being dazzled. By focusing 4 flux she becomes immune to being shaken. 6 flowists gives her immunity to being fascinated, 8 to confused, 10 to dazed, 12 to frightened, 14 to feebleminded, 16 to panicked, 18 to any form as scrying (as per the spell Mind Blank). The effects are cumulative.

Powerful Strike
Passive, internal
Another offense-oriented fusion, by focusing their flux into their fists, knees, elbows and whatever else they strike with, this helps flowists strike harder.
- A flowist may focus flux into this fusion to get a +1 insight bonus to melee damage per 2 flux focused.

Sure Strike
Passive, internal
Primarily a martial class, flowists can fabricate numerous fusions which help them in combat. This fusion sharpens their mind and body for the purposes of striking unerringly.
- A flowist may focus flux into this fusion to get a +1 insight bonus to attack rolls per 2 flux focused.

Tough Stomach
Passive, internal
The chief concern of most flowists is self-improvement, both mental and physical. One thing all flowists are capable of is using their flux to protect their bodies from physical ailments.
- Fabricating this fusion provides the flowist with immunities to certain physical status effects. By focusing 2 flux into this fusion she becomes immune to being fatigued. By focusing 4 flux she becomes immune to being sickened. 6 flowists gives her immunity to diseases, 8 to exhausted, 10 to blinded/deafened, 12 to poisons, 14 to nauseated, 16 to paralyzed, 18 to stunned. The effects are cumulative.

Surface

Absorb Blows
Passive, surface
Not naturally the physically toughest of people despite often being thick in melee, this important fusion allows a flowist to shrug off considerable damage.
- A flowist may focus flux to get damage reduction x/-, where x is the number of focused flux. This does not allow her natural weapons to overcome damage reduction.

Amplified Offense
Passive, surface
One of flowists most impressive abilities, fabricating this fusion allows their fists, knees or other body parts function just like magical weapons.
- A flowist may focus flux into her fists, or whichever part of her body she wishes to make her unarmed strikes with, to get a +1 weapon bonus to her fists weapons per 2 flux focused. This bonus may be distributed among an enhancement bonus, up to +5, and special abilities such as Flaming or Speed, subject to DM approval.
- As usual, a weapon must have an enhancement bonus of +1 before it can have special abilities. However, this does not mean a flowist must spend flux to do so; for example, a flowist wearing a +1 Amulet of Mighty Fists +1 could spend 2 flux to make her fists +1 flaming fists.
- This fusion may also be used on other natural weapons, but for every natural weapon after the first it requires one more flux to be focused. For example, a Kobold using the web enhancement with six levels of flowist may focus five flux into this fusion making one her claws a +1 flaming claw and her bite a +1 keen bite or six flux into this fusion making all three of her natural attacks +1 flaming.

Fire Resistance
Passive, surface
By focusing their flux to the surface of their bodies, flowists are able to make themselves able to tolerate great amounts of heat.
- A flowist may focus flux to get fire resistance 2x, where x is the number of focused flux.

Cold Resistance
Passive, surface
Similar to Fire Resistance, fabricating this fusion allows a flowist to better handle cold.
- A flowist may focus flux to get cold resistance 2x, where x is the number of focused flux.

Acid Resistance
Passive, surface
Similar to Fire Resistance, fabricating this fusion allows a flowist to better handle acid.
- A flowist may focus flux to get acid resistance 2x, where x is the number of focused flux.

Electricity Resistance
Passive, surface
Similar to Fire Resistance, fabricating this fusion allows a flowist to better handle electricity.
- A flowist may focus flux to get electricity resistance 2x, where x is the number of focused flux.

Sonic Resistance
Passive, surface
Similar to Fire Resistance, fabricating this fusion allows a flowist to better handle sonic.
- A flowist may focus flux to get sonic resistance 2x, where x is the number of focused flux.

Power Resistance
Passive, surface
Somewhat similar to Spell Resistance, fabricating this fusion grants the flowist some defense against powers.
- A flowist may focus flux to get power resistance 2x, where x is the number of focused flux. This overlaps (does not stack with) other sources of power resistance.

Spell Resistance
Passive, surface
Similar to how flux flowists through all living things, magic can be found everywhere. They're not the same, but flux interacts with magic to a certain degree. This fusion grants the flowist some defense against magic.
- A flowist may focus flux to get spell resistance 2x, where x is the number of focused flux. This overlaps (does not stack with) other sources of spell resistance.

Tough Skin
Passive, surface
Like the fusion Absorb Blows, flowists can make their bodies tougher, but rather than using their flux to shrug off some damage, they toughen their skin, making them less likely to receive any damage.
- A flowist may focus flux to get a +1 insight bonus to her natural armor class per 2 flux focused.

External

Antimagic Field
Passive, external
With this fusion a flowist creates a bubble around herself which most magic can't penetrate and inside of which doesn't function.
- A flowist may focus x+12 flux to get an antimagic field of radius x/3 rounded down feet centered on her (a circle of radius 0 is the square(s) which the flowist occupies). This fusion lasts a number of rounds equal to her flowist level, after which she must either end the fusion or again attempt the check associated with external fusions.

Flowing Armor
Passive, external
This fusion turns a flowist's flux into an armor-like, invisible substance surrounding her body.
- A flowist may focus flux to get a +1 insight bonus to her deflection armor class per 2 flux focused. This fusion lasts a number of rounds equal to her flowist level, after which she must either end the fusion or again attempt the check associated with external fusions.

Gentle Ray
Active, external
With Gentle Strike a flowist focuses flux into her fingertips. It is possible to fabricate a fusion similar to Gentle Strike but rather than ending at her fingertips the flowist extends her flux outside of her body.
- This fusion works like Gentle Touch but with the following differences:

It is a ranged touch attack with a range of close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 flowist levels) rather than a melee touch attack.
It deals 1d6 force damage per flux focused, up to a maximum of half her flowist level, rather than 1d6 force damage per two flowist levels.
In addition to focusing flux into this fusion to deal extra fire, cold, electricity, sonic or acid damage, a flowist may focus 2 flux to increase the range to medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./flowist level), though with a -2 penalty to attack. The flowist must be able to see her target.

It takes a standard action to make the aforementioned ranged touch attack. A flowist may do this as often as she wishes so long as this fusion is fabricated. To determine which direction the opponent is knocked back, extend the line segment centered on the center of the flowist and the center of the foe.

Gentle Blast
Active, external
By forcing her flux out in all directions, a flowist can damage and knock back all enemies within a certain range. This fusion works like Gentle Ray with the following differences:

It deals half as much damage (that is, 1d6 force damage per four flux focused, extra fire, cold, electricity, sonic or acid damage per four flux focused) and consequently has half the knock back.
The flowist makes a ranged touch attack against all foes within a range of close. This cannot be increased.
The flowist does not need to see her opponents.
It is consumed upon use and the flowist must refabricate it to use it again.


Telekinesis
Active, external
Similar to how Gentle Touch may be used at a range, a flowist may use the force of her flux to move objects.
- A flowist may focus x flux into this fusion to move an object weighing up to 5x pounds within close range (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 flowist levels). This movement is identical to the Sustained Force entry under the Telekinesis spell. It takes a standard action to do so and the fusion is consumed upon use; that is, if the flowist wishes to teleport again she must refabricate this fusion.

Teleport
Active, external
The connection between a flowist and her flux is very deep. In fact, they are near inseparable, though with intense training and much experience a flowist learns how to project their flux outside of their body. Her body and flux naturally wish to be reunited.
- A flowist may focus x+10 flux into this fusion to teleport 5x feet to a vacant square with which she has line of sight. It takes a standard action to do so and the fusion is consumed upon use; that is, if the flowist wishes to teleport again she must refabricate this fusion.

Mental

Hereditary Knowledge
Passive, mental
***???blurb about knowledge being in flux from parents
- Upon learning this fusion choose two skills. A flowist may focus x flux into this fusion to be treated as having an extra x/2 ranks, rounded up, distributed among the two skills. These ranks may exceed the natural skill rank cap but may not be used to satisfy prerequisites.
- This fusion may be learned multiple times. Every time it is learned after the first choose two more skills.

Reanimate
Active, external
Corpses have no flux in them. When a person dies and their soul departs, their flux dissipates. However, flux itself is the stuff of life and by putting some of her flux into a corpse a flowist can animate a corpse, making something similar to a zombie.
- ???
1 flux per HD, can do more to buff them
***??? say mental can be internal or external, has to do with knowledge, like for the Reanimate it's programming them or something
Also say all mental flows have to deal with mental stuff, like knowledge, but they're not necessarily contained in the body. Like Reanimate. In fact, you could call them like non-mental flows (3 subbranches) and mental flows (3 subbranches). So it's not like 4 branches.

???
Passive, mental
***???
- text

danzibr
2012-11-16, 02:35 PM
Feats

Amplified Weaponry
Prerequisite: Ability to fabricate Amplified Offense.

Benefit: This feat allows flowists to apply the Amplified Offense meditation to her weapons. Like with Amplified Offense, every additional weapon strengthened costs an additional flow.

Bonus Flow
Prerequisite: Ability to fabricate a meditation.

Benefit: Gain 1 additional flow per level.

Special: This feat may be taken several times. Its effects stack.

Gentle Weapon Touch
Prerequisite: Flowist level one.

Benefit: This feat allows a flowist to use her Gentle Touch ability through her weapon. Once per round when making a standard attack or full attack against an enemy, a flowist may designate one of her attacks with which to use this ability. If she hits, she deals damage as normal and deals 1d6 force damage per flowist level and knocks her foe back appropriately. If she misses it is wasted. At flowist level twenty the once-per-round limitation is removed by Flow Freely.

Increased Flow Limit
Prerequisite: Flowist level first.

Benefit: Increase the amount of flow which can be focused into a single meditation by 1.

Meditation Study
Prerequisite: Must be a living being with either Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma at least 10.

Benefit: You learn a single internal meditation and gain 1 flow. You may spend 10 minutes to focus your flow into your meditation as you fabricate it. If you have additional flow you may focus more flow into your chosen meditation, treating your flowist level as half your HD.

Special: This feat may be taken multiple times. Each time you learn a new internal meditation and gain an additional flow.

Advanced Meditation Study
Prerequisite: Must be a living being with either Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma at least 10 and able to fabricate an internal meditation.

Benefit: You learn a single surface meditation and gain 1 flow. You may spend 10 minutes to focus your flow into your meditation as you fabricate it. If you have additional flow you may focus more flow into your chosen meditation, treating your flowist level as half your HD.

Special: This feat may be taken multiple times. Each time you learn a new surface meditation and gain an additional flow.

Alternate Class Features

Martial Flowist
Some flowists favor fighting with manufactured weapons rather than what their gods have given them, learning how to fight better at the cost of being less proficient at controlling their flow.
Lose:

All benefits from Unarmed Strike class feature.
Base flow is equal to half of a normal flowist, rounded down.
All Fly abilities are delayed one level. For example, a martial flowist does not learn how to fly until level 2 and may only do so cross-legged and at a rate of 5 feet per round. He does not learn how to fly standing until sixth level and he does so at 25 feet per round.
Reductions in the amount of time it takes to focus flow is delayed by 1 level with the exception of 10 minute focus. For example, a standard flowist may focus her flow into various meditations in 1 minute at level 4, while a martial flowist does not learn how to do this until level 5.

Gain:

Base attack bonus progression increased to that of a Fighter.
Proficiency with all simple and one martial weapon of choice.
Hit die increased to d10.
Amplified Weaponry bonus feat at first level.
Gentle Weapon Touch bonus feat at first level.


Prestige Classes

to come

danzibr
2012-11-16, 02:36 PM
Random Information

Motivation
I had a dream the morning of 11/8/12. In this dream I could fly by sitting Indian style, so to speak, and by touching someone could send them flying. I could also picture bright blue stuff flowing through my veins (and arteries, I guess), and for some reason remember it granting defensive capabilities as well. All I had to do was focus and I change what the blue stuff in my veins could do.

Other
Also, the different meditations for stat/energy resistance is deliberate; that is, it's supposed to be clear that you can get many going at one time.

For terminology, it's best to compare Flowists with MoI classes.
MoI class → flowist
invest → focus
essentia → flow
soulmeld → meditation
form → fabricate
bind to chakra → (no equivalent)
So for example:
An incarnate invests essentia into soulmelds and forms soulmelds then binds them to chakras.
A flowist focuses flow into meditations and fabricates meditations.

Power Level?
Under 9000, I imagine. Compare with a level 20 warblade. They have enough flow to max everything, giving them a butt ton of immunities, +7 to every state, +10 to initiative, +10 to attack and damage, +10 fists, DR 20/-, resist a bunch of stuff 40, SR 60, +10 to natural AC, +10 to deflection, teleport anywhere within 55 feet as a free action, perma-AMF of radius 45 feet, blast all dudes in a 50 ft radius for 5d6+5d6 damage. Not world-breaking like level 9 spells, but pretty good.

Maybe tier 2. Need to think more.

To do

Polish stuff. I already have more ideas, just have to write them up nicely.

Need a picture.

Need to think of balance more.

Change log

11/22/12: fewer flow, added Alacrity and ACF and a couple feats, nerfed Gentle Touch a bit (Reflex save, limitations)

11/17/12: clarified text in a few meditations (all meditations are (Ex), Gentle Blast casting time).
Added Amplified Weaponry and Gentle Weapon Touch feats.

11/16/12: added

Well, my first homebrew. Never thought I'd do it. Please let me know what you think.

Cranthis
2012-11-16, 03:26 PM
This looks great. I especially like how you handled the flight they get. Although, I would bump it up a few levels, the last one at 15 instead of 11, but thats not really a big deal.

danzibr
2012-11-16, 10:23 PM
Ooh, my first response. Thank you very much!

Yeah, I was considering making that higher... it essentially gives good perma fly if you put some flow into it. Dunno what all nice things are appropriate for melee.

Afool
2012-11-17, 02:09 AM
I'm not very experienced with homebrew or with mechanics, but after rereading the limits that you put on how much flow can be invested into a single meditation, I think it is remarkable balanced considering the potential cheese you cut off ahead of time. (I knew I wasn't reading it right when I thought I read that the flowist could get over 300DR/- at level 20 as a free action)

Something that you may want to point out is whether or not the mental stat increase from meditations affects flow limits.

i.e. If I choose Path of the Mind and invest flow points into Increase Intelligence, will I get more flow points if that increases my modifier? If so would it also affect the limit of potential flow points invested in a meditation?

If it does, then I can easily see maxing the flowist's particular mental stat meditation becoming basic optimization for the character. Not that there's anything wrong with that, with the whole using meditation to better perfect one's self fluff, but I can imagine it being potentially exploitable.

Of course, I wouldn't really know how, but in any case, congratulations on completing your first piece of online homebrew. It is a job well done.

Mial
2012-11-17, 05:29 AM
I'm digging the concept, but to be honest the one part I'm not "flowing" with is the Gentle Touch feature. Oh, and not sure about perma-amf, but I don't really have anything other than gut feeling backing that up.

1d6 damage per level with no cap, no cost, and no limits to how many times it may be used per day? Sounds like you're just trying to make warlocks jealous.

But speaking of warlocks, lets take a look at their feature that is fairly similar, eldritch blast, for a second. Granted it's ranged, and kinda morphable with their various shape invocations, but does the fact that Gentle Touch is a melee attack (and still touch) make it worth double the damage?

And finally, the knockback. I mean, the knockback sounds okay until you add in the fact you gave this class flight as a basic class feature. At 8th level with incorporated flight they can tumble/fly directly over an opponents head and gentle touch them (knockback towards the floor directly beneath them) for 2d6/level (disintegrate level)damage immediately with no save. Just a melee touch attack. Unlimited times per day.

But yeah, this definitely looks neat. I don't mean to come off as overly critical, the rest looks pretty good.

danzibr
2012-11-17, 08:21 AM
Thanks again for the responses. Exactly what I'm looking for.

I'm not very experienced with homebrew or with mechanics, but after rereading the limits that you put on how much flow can be invested into a single meditation, I think it is remarkable balanced considering the potential cheese you cut off ahead of time. (I knew I wasn't reading it right when I thought I read that the flowist could get over 300DR/- at level 20 as a free action)

Something that you may want to point out is whether or not the mental stat increase from meditations affects flow limits.

i.e. If I choose Path of the Mind and invest flow points into Increase Intelligence, will I get more flow points if that increases my modifier? If so would it also affect the limit of potential flow points invested in a meditation?

If it does, then I can easily see maxing the flowist's particular mental stat meditation becoming basic optimization for the character. Not that there's anything wrong with that, with the whole using meditation to better perfect one's self fluff, but I can imagine it being potentially exploitable.
In the Flow text it says "The number of flow a flowist may focus into a single meditation is equal to the minimum of her flowist level and one more than twice her Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma modifier depending on if she follows the Path of the Mind, Will or the Heart, respectively. This may be increased with the feat Increased Flow Limit." So having poor mental stats limits how much flow they can focus.

Of course, I wouldn't really know how, but in any case, congratulations on completing your first piece of online homebrew. It is a job well done.
Thanks!

I'm digging the concept, but to be honest the one part I'm not "flowing" with is the Gentle Touch feature. Oh, and not sure about perma-amf, but I don't really have anything other than gut feeling backing that up.

1d6 damage per level with no cap, no cost, and no limits to how many times it may be used per day? Sounds like you're just trying to make warlocks jealous.

But speaking of warlocks, lets take a look at their feature that is fairly similar, eldritch blast, for a second. Granted it's ranged, and kinda morphable with their various shape invocations, but does the fact that Gentle Touch is a melee attack (and still touch) make it worth double the damage?

And finally, the knockback. I mean, the knockback sounds okay until you add in the fact you gave this class flight as a basic class feature. At 8th level with incorporated flight they can tumble/fly directly over an opponents head and gentle touch them (knockback towards the floor directly beneath them) for 2d6/level (disintegrate level)damage immediately with no save. Just a melee touch attack. Unlimited times per day.

But yeah, this definitely looks neat. I don't mean to come off as overly critical, the rest looks pretty good.
Oh, I appreciate the constructive criticism. To first address the AMF thing, certain casters get it at level 11. Flowists can get it at level 13, but being able to use it reliably is unlikely at that point due to it being an external flow. By the time they can use it consistently I don't think it'll be overpowered.

As for the Gentle Touch thing... you have good points. As you said, the strength of Eldritch Blast is not in its damage but in its versatility, and Gentle Touch does nothing but damage and knockback. Also, Warlock is considered tier 4 (and from what I've read people consider EB damage low), whereas with this class I was shooting for tier 2 or 3, with the idea of melee-can-have-nice-things. The knockback may be a bit much... like toning it down to flowist level/2 round down.

Mial
2012-11-17, 04:00 PM
Just throwing out ideas-- what about making gentle touch a 1d6/2 levels ability that knocks the target prone with a saving throw to avoid the prone (or not if you're looking for higher tier power), but then also letting him "overcharge" it 1/day per 3 levels (minimum 1) for the 1d6/level + knockback? it still includes the flying directly over their head for the almost instant double damage, and at high levels it's usuable enough times per day to get stuff done. If it's not enough, you could make it 1/day per 2 levels.

Afool
2012-11-17, 11:28 PM
That sounds more balanced, how about the save be the standard 10+flowist level+mental stat modifier with some text pointing out that the mental modifier is based on the path chosen at 1st level.

Mial
2012-11-18, 12:54 AM
Isn't it usually 1/2 class level for saves? Like 10+1/2 Flowist level + mental attribute?

danzibr
2012-11-18, 08:09 AM
I like the ideas. Maybe I'll make a nerfed version of lower tier. Thanks.

Force2Reckon
2012-11-19, 02:30 PM
I like this idea, but I agree with the strength of gentle touch being (if used properly) powerful... I don't know if it's overly powerful or not, cause you would (at least the way my dm likes to run things) have to make a fairly good tumble roll for that, which makes it difficult at low levels even getting Tumble as a class skill, I'll see if I can find a DM who'll let me run this at this lvl and tell you how it goes... may be a LONG while though, or maybe never...

Also I play Warlock, and what is this >_< (jk) I didn't even think about that whole, tumble over someone and gentle touch them into the ground thing. Overall I LOVE this class, it feels good to me and I love the idea of (at level 20) fly charging a giant as a gnome, elbowing it in the groin, and sending it flying 80 feet (I think) up in the air, revenge for skyrim bitches.

danzibr
2012-11-20, 10:44 AM
What about tumble checks? You just have to succeed on a melee touch attack.

Yeah, the more I think about it the more I agree it needs... a bit of nerfing. Not much, but some. Don't want to nerf it too badly. The idea is kind of to give melee nice things. I suppose I should compare it with some maneuvers.

danzibr
2012-11-22, 03:43 PM
Biggish update. You can see the change log. The ACF is the neatest thing, I think. Also, does Alacrity seem not broken?

Hanuman
2012-11-24, 02:44 AM
While this bears similarities that I enjoy to what I wanted out of my flowdancer project (which when last posted I wanted it to be somewhere in-between a cha/dex psion and a maneuver user, like a psi-war swordsage but triggering off cha.
I really like that a class has been posted to do that, because frankly I don't want to make that class anymore, it was kind of a dream to do too many things at once while still bound to such a specific theme.

I give this a solid thumbs up, I'd like to see more ACF's added to it personally, but other than that I really like it.

I've gone on to try and just smoosh all my favorite character types together, including several homebrews, and have them played simultaneously or merged seamlessly without taking other classes or PrC's to accomplish it. Play the character like you want, what you want, day by day. Pipedream, I'll get there some day.

Anyway, I've bookmarked this class and will be revisiting it and making comments on the next post to try and improve it, add specific suggestions, or additional options for homebrew.

danzibr
2012-11-24, 08:28 AM
Looking forward to it, Hanuman.

If this is a factor at all, the PrC's I have in mind are things which progress flowist and arcane caster/divine caster/psion stuff, a PrC for non-flowists who want some flow stuff and a PrC which flowists enter and advance some of their abilities at the price of letting others lag.

Hanuman
2012-11-25, 12:05 AM
Right then, to see what I mean here are two REALLY badly done classes, essentially failed brainstorm drafts that look like baseclasses:

Flowdancer Model IV
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213748

Flowdancer Model V
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216008

These will never be completed and most of the actual content is on txt or physical paper, but feel free to pull any content or ideas you want from it.

--------

What needs to be fixed with the flowist:

-All the class features are a single wall of text, it's frankly confusing and hard to navigate and even more difficult to sit down and read through to learn how to navigate it in the first place.

-Gentle Touch
Ok, now I have to mention that I'm IRL an internal martial artist and I really really like yang style tai chi chuan. This ability changes how flow is flavored, flow then becomes raw energy in which you can focus in your hand and repulsor-blast someone into the pavement with extreme prejudice.
This deals force damage, so not only are you dealing the maximum damage a wizard can at par-level with the advantage of being immune to anti-magic and ethereal and resistance, you deal additional bludgeoning damage that will at maximum deal double this damage, reflex half on the bludgeoning, and if that fails then you get a sizable knockback. Icing on the cake is that it's sustained damage and can be used infinitely.

How to fix this? Alright, first off force damage really isn't that bad, and is a decent solution to the antimagic problem, same with Ex fly. Though you will have to be really careful or your class is going to seem gimmicky and broken really really easily. http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Satori

Well, when building a class you look for the easiest reference point, and in this case that's the Warlock's Eldritch Blast, this does 1d6/2lvl and is resisted by Spell Resistance, the knockback effect could be OK as an invocation if it deals less damage, and I think it makes sense if a grounded character knocks back a flying, but not vice versa.

Alternatively consider using the weather table on Wind rules, which will have some varied effects depending on creature size.

Here's a re-write with these balance changes, I've scrubbed the format, removed the flavor text, the example, how it's effected by other abilities and the DM's discretion note reducing the size by about 50%

Gentle Touch (Ex):
-Starting at first level you may make take a standard action to make a melee touch attack (that does not provoke an attack of opportunity) against a flying opponent, or a grounded opponent if you are also grounded.
-On a successful attack you may deal 1d6 force damage plus another 1d6 force damage for every additional two levels you have.
-This attack also knocks back your opponent 5' per flowist level you have and reduced by half if the opponent succeeds a DC10+1/2 Flowist Level Reflex save. If the opponent is unable to move backwards due to a solid object they take 1d4 bludgeoning damage per 5' they are unable to move.
-The knock-back distance is reduced by 10' for every size larger your opponent is.
-Gentle Touch is subject to spell resistance, and you may take feats like spell penetration to amplify it's effect.


I'll do it one at a time, let me know what you think of this first.

danzibr
2012-11-25, 08:00 AM
Well, when building a class you look for the easiest reference point, and in this case that's the Warlock's Eldritch Blast
This I have to disagree with. Warlock is tier 4 and people state the ability itself is not impressive. Although it is the class's signature ability, it only shines when you combine it/amplify it with other abilities.

Here's a re-write with these balance changes, I've scrubbed the format, removed the flavor text, the example, how it's effected by other abilities and the DM's discretion note reducing the size by about 50%

Gentle Touch (Ex):
-Starting at first level you may make take a standard action to make a melee touch attack (that does not provoke an attack of opportunity) against a flying opponent, or a grounded opponent if you are also grounded.
-On a successful attack you may deal 1d6 force damage plus another 1d6 force damage for every additional two levels you have.
-This attack also knocks back your opponent 5' per flowist level you have and reduced by half if the opponent succeeds a DC10+1/2 Flowist Level Reflex save. If the opponent is unable to move backwards due to a solid object they take 1d4 bludgeoning damage per 5' they are unable to move.
-The knock-back distance is reduced by 10' for every size larger your opponent is.
-Gentle Touch is subject to spell resistance, and you may take feats like spell penetration to amplify it's effect.


I'll do it one at a time, let me know what you think of this first.
Well, sarblade is the golden standard of melee in my mind. If we compare the damage Gentle Touch does with some sarblade Maneuvers at certain levels... hmm, you can get Strike of Perfect Clarity at level 17. With the current Gentle Touch a flowist would do an average of (assuming non-saved knockback damage on a similarly sized creature) 119 damage. Yeah, I agree that's too strong, and it only gets stronger at levels 18, 19 and 20. If we drop it down to 1d6 per levels round up and 1d4 knockback that's 54 damage. Way too nerfed.

We also have to keep in mind as-is the differences, that the flowist can do it round after round while the warblade needs to refresh.

I'd be careful with the solid object thing. Then you run into problems with them striking other opponents.

Regarding format, I put 3 spaces in at every paragraph break but the forum didn't take it.

I think it would be more balanced if it couldn't be critted, did 1d4 damage on the knockback of whatever type the DM decides, usable once every other round and a number of times equal to flowist level + dominant modifier.

Anyway, thanks for the input so far!

Hanuman
2012-11-25, 11:20 AM
Well, that's a maneuver at level 17 in 3.5, maneuvers are intended to be frontloaded in the encounter (expending top level maneuvers, then moving down the list as they run out, which is pretty much how casters operate too-- the difference is martial adepts get a refresh every encounter), but at level 17 it really doesn't matter because pretty much everything is and can be absurdly broken or cumbersome as soon as it hits that level range.
DnD's 3.5 prime range is level 4-14, pathfinder is about 1 or 2 to 15 or 16.
You CAN play over this, but resolving 15 attacks per round per character or "what torrasque?" the party says as they play cards beside the sphere of annihilation are not really things that involve damage anymore, it's about what swamp you can fly over and what clever ruse you can foil and how many feather swords you can wield at the same time.
At level 15 if you aren't on the final plotarch or plot multi-bridge then either you started at level 10-14 or you've already finished so many plotarchs the DM has never made plans to finish the campaign.


Tier 4: Capable of doing one thing quite well, but often useless when encounters require other areas of expertise, or capable of doing many things to a reasonable degree of competance without truly shining. Rarely has any abilities that can outright handle an encounter unless that encounter plays directly to the class's main strength. DMs may sometimes need to work to make sure Tier 4s can contribue to an encounter, as their abilities may sometimes leave them useless. Won't outshine anyone except Tier 6s except in specific circumstances that play to their strengths. Cannot compete effectively with Tier 1s that are played well.

Examples: Rogue, Barbarian, Warlock, Warmage, Scout, Ranger, Hexblade, Adept, Spellthief, Marshal, Fighter (Dungeoncrasher Variant)

The warlock is a tier 4 not because eldritch blast is weak or unflavourful or not useful, it's because the class essentially makes you a mook who shoots one really good magic missile per turn, detects magic, and has enough tankiness to survive being mauled by swarms if she is forced to do something other than hide behind a log and pew pew with her hand in the shape of a gun... and she does NOTHING else. Even if the warlock's blast dealt 1d6/level she would still only be a tier 3 and her general class design would not improve. Giving her an ally buff, some battlefield control, some summons, the ability to control monsters or improving her skillpoints/level will move her to tier 2, and pretty much nothing else will.

The average flowist will be crept up on in the middle of the night in a paid-off inn, grabbed in bed with a knife to her throat and proceed to blast the baddie through a wall and jump then fly out the window escaping 10 other highly trained assassins and kidnappers armed to the teeth, in a single round. Even if the force damage was 1d6 every 4 levels it would still be great in anyone's kit.

If you lower the damage then you can allow it to have more imaginative effects in combat broadening the usage and playability of the class. Why not fling enemies into other enemies? Hear enemies behind a door? Why not break down the door with your repulsor-blast while taking cover beside it, while you leave clear line of sight for your casters and snipers to shoot through it? Perhaps with a zone of silence and an illusion of a closed door there too for extra points?

Magical amulet of really awesome badassery making the miniboss too cheese? Grab the amulet and smack his face, something will have to give, and if you are a warforged it will almost certainly be either his neck or the amulet chain.

Ice to meet you mr. padlock, snow problem! Use both hands to direct a blast inward and crush the tumbler in on itself, or just blast the lock sideways.

Walls thinly honeycombed with murderholes in em? Crossbows gettin you down? Start picking up rocks and force blasting them into the walls. If you can blast 200lbs of meat 40' then you can probably smash through a thin wall, a tower shield or a door down with a 20lb rock at 20' range.

There's a lot of applications for this, and if they seem overpowered then I'd revisit why you want to deal more damage in a touch attack than conventional weapons abilities deal without ignoring armor.

The following assessment is what it actually comes down to: The flowist's gentle stike makes dungeoncrasher fighters look pathetic as it allows you to be a frontline interceptor who never has to extend or commit to a fight as you get a free perfect bullrush every hit and it does comparable burst to wizards, with the sustainability of a warlock.

There's a lot lacking in melee in general, but please consider that some players or some dungeon situations require, context, or force a PvP... and when you have a dominated flowist who can essentially break half the bones of a fullplate crusader with DR10/- 5res/all and great saves as he flies off a bridge by brushing past him on the way through with absolutely no save then while the flowist will almost always do peachy keen the other players at the table will be disappointed. "Crunch!" the crusader goes after he hits the canyon floor, taking falling damage he cannot reduce or resist. D:

I like that you are considering using flowpoints as a sustain limitation for melee, because that would be appropriate.

I'm a little confused on why the ray version is named Gentle Ray, I'm not sure if it's just me, but whenever I read Gentle Touch I think it's a parody on yang style tai chi chaun application, but a ray that deals pure kinetic energy to break someone's flesh only really makes sense if you fluff it that your character appears relaxed and the effect is obfuscated. Here's the most cheeky and disrespectful video I've found so far. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSnUDkCQ0WU

danzibr
2012-11-25, 09:07 PM
First let me say... excellent, excellent points. Truly appreciate it. I'll address them.

If you lower the damage then you can allow it to have more imaginative effects in combat broadening the usage and playability of the class.

Indeed, indeed. I was (obviously) hesitant to nerf it, but this is a brilliant idea. I was concerned about gimping their offense, but... yeah, I like this. Plus if all you did was Gentle Touch over and over, unable to change it, that'd be hella boring. Maybe I'll change it to... you get the base damage and can focus flow into it like a meditation, then you can add/change the type of damage, deal damage to objects, etc. etc.


I like that you are considering using flowpoints as a sustain limitation for melee, because that would be appropriate.

Thank you, thank you. Yeah. I want them to have lots of options... right now the balance seems good, but I haven't done any playtesting.


I'm a little confused on why the ray version is named Gentle Ray, I'm not sure if it's just me, but whenever I read Gentle Touch I think it's a parody on yang style tai chi chaun application, but a ray that deals pure kinetic energy to break someone's flesh only really makes sense if you fluff it that your character appears relaxed and the effect is obfuscated. Here's the most cheeky and disrespectful video I've found so far. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSnUDkCQ0WU
I'm glad you bring up the naming. Actually, I'm terribly at naming things, very terrible. I don't like the name flowist very much, to be honest. Or fabricate, or meditation, or most of the abilities. I'd like to rename Fly and Antimagic Field too, given there are spells with those names. Specifically for Gentle Touch, I picture it as the flowist mentally extending his or her hand.

But yeah. It's just a ranged touch attack with the Gentle Touch effect. Totally open to suggestions.

And that was a wild video. I'd like to be pushed like that, even if it's a bit overracted.

So right, current goal: revamp Gentle Touch, make PrC's (I think a MoI/flowist would be nice... totemist/flowist), rename stuff, continue to add meditations. On the topic of meditations, I had a second dream about being a flowist, and in the second I could use it like telekinesis. I think that calls for another meditations.

And how about a meditation which grants invisibility? Too good? How about the Haste/Blur one? Alacrity.

Hanuman
2012-11-26, 04:07 PM
I mean, you could make the flowist a melee warlock if you wanted, it's just going to play either gimmicky or awkwardly and the balance between those two are going to be determined by how effective you are at your "one thing".
Limited usages seem constricting and make the class less fun, but if you punch someone clear across the room and it's something you save up for, you savor it differently. You can stand up and do your thing at the right time and have it save the day. Hell, last session I needed to hold two barrels of gunpoweder and slam it against a collosal undead sea serpent's neck (AT LEVEL 6) for us to have a chance of killing it, our archer shot flaming arrows at the barrels and blew off both my shoulders, dropping me fairly to -9HP. I lived and the serpent was decapitated, but after-stories are totally what DnD is about.

Blur is easily done, for balancing invisibility I'd reference Draken's Evolutionist homebrew on this forum, Haste is power not utility so it's much trickier to balance and because it improves saves, ac and attack roles, essentially doubles your speed and allows an extra attack it's going to run into complications when used by a front-liner because a caster is generally using it to help and not improve their own power under so many bonus multipliers (effects that stack upon one's role).

I do like the power to create movement, empowerment or speed to you or your allies but I think haste is really high level and should be very limited in it's duration and flat dangerous to use.

Well, essentially you have a "Push", if it were me I'd just jump ontop of the Gramarist's lore and scoop up the physics of Kellus' Gramarie "puissance" and have it a thing that can be cultivated within living things within their mastery of self mixed with the weave. This allows you to dodge the fact that your flowist is essentially "I have force energy in my blood." and go with something that allows you to build on existing fantastic projects.
If the flowist can be worked in to be able to be homebrew-friendly with the ozodrin, the evolutionist, the dimensional conduit and the gramarist? Oh boy, that'd just be awesome.

danzibr
2012-11-28, 10:18 PM
Thanks for the response again.

I just want to post saying my project hasn't died. School's keeping me busy.

To respond to what you said... I'll certainly keep the flavor far from a warlock, and try to keep them mechanically far. They'll be similar in that they have a damaging ability which can be buffed, but hey.

I also looked at the four classes you mentioned. They're quite impressive homebrew. I won't be taking any of their fluff at all, though. Is that what you mean by making it homebrew-friendly with the others?

jiriku
2012-11-28, 10:55 PM
Strengths:
I like the modular class skill sets and path choices. Whenever you give players room to choose how the class grows, that's a win.
I like the defensive focus of most of the meditations. Too many homebrewers build classes that can only attack and can't protect themselves adequately. Kudos.
I like the mixture of attack modes. Variety is good.


Opportunities for improvement:
It is very unfortunate that the name for the central mechanic of your class, "flow", is also a slang term for menstrual bleeding. This was in my mind the entire time I was reading the class, and some of your phrasing is quite... hilarious/disturbing/distracting when considered in that light. You might want to consider a different name, like "essence" or "vitae". It only takes one player wisecracking about the name during your game to ruin the mood for everyone.
The class lacks any sort of ranged weapon, but can't effectively fly and attack in the same turn until 7th level. Gentle Ray and Gentle Blast will be used very heavily, but even they have extremely limited range.
I would eliminate the doubling of points at 20th level. The ability to enhance melee attacks is interesting and significant enough as a capstone.

Wyntonian
2012-11-28, 10:59 PM
It is very unfortunate that the name for the central mechanic of your class, "flow", is also a slang term for menstrual bleeding. This was in my mind the entire time I was reading the class, and some of your phrasing is quite... hilarious/disturbing/distracting when considered in that light. You might want to consider a different name, like "essence" or "vitae". It only takes one player wisecracking about the name during your game to ruin the mood for everyone.

Aaaand it's ruined for me. :smallannoyed::smalltongue:


Give me a day or two and I'll try to put together an actual review.

Hanuman
2012-11-29, 01:34 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_%28psychology%29

This is a good read if you want to narrow your definition.

Though, I think the creator wanted "flow" to be a chi variant instead of a unification of self and context.

danzibr
2012-11-29, 08:19 AM
[...]
Indeed, I thought the same thing while making it. Especially since the fluff has the first flowist a woman. I'm open to name changes. I do like essence but... it doesn't give the same feel. Like, I picture essence as just kind of hanging around but flow as moving through the body. Also vitae totally makes me think of my current job hunt.

Aaaand it's ruined for me. :smallannoyed::smalltongue:

Give me a day or two and I'll try to put together an actual review.
:( and looking forward to it, respectively.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_%28psychology%29

This is a good read if you want to narrow your definition.

Though, I think the creator wanted "flow" to be a chi variant instead of a unification of self and context.
I started to read that... found it funny. I'll read more of it. I do indeed picture it like chi. Didn't want to use the word though, too overdone, especially with all the samurai/ninja business.

EDIT: Found it. Flux. Yay synonym.com, then dictionary.com.

Hanuman
2012-11-29, 08:35 AM
Point was that if you consider that Flow is actually Chi then this opens a WHOLE lot of easy fluff, allowing the flowist to be a paragon of physical health, unity and projection of one's life essence of life force in all forms. In that way flow might work better as having the option of Positive Energy to heal yourself or others, or even being aura.

"His chi was like fire." -Journey to the East

Hunter X Hunter explains chi aura as Nen and has a really good system and the basics of using it to project it to radiate around you by intensifying it's production, to seal it from escaping creating a sheath of it, to suppress it to avoid detection, or to focus it into yourself or objects.

danzibr
2012-11-29, 10:54 AM
Point was that if you consider that Flow is actually Chi then this opens a WHOLE lot of easy fluff, allowing the flowist to be a paragon of physical health, unity and projection of one's life essence of life force in all forms. In that way flow might work better as having the option of Positive Energy to heal yourself or others, or even being aura.

"His chi was like fire." -Journey to the East

Hunter X Hunter explains chi aura as Nen and has a really good system and the basics of using it to project it to radiate around you by intensifying it's production, to seal it from escaping creating a sheath of it, to suppress it to avoid detection, or to focus it into yourself or objects.
Guess I'll have to watch me some Hunter X Hunter.

The healing stuff... I'm hesitant. Thanks for the suggestions.

Thump
2012-11-29, 03:15 PM
Is there a limit to the amount of meditations you can have up at any one point?

Because if not, it's super easy to do any one thing, and it's like being MeleeWizard; if you know what you're up against, you can kill it.

danzibr
2012-11-29, 06:46 PM
Is there a limit to the amount of meditations you can have up at any one point?

Because if not, it's super easy to do any one thing, and it's like being MeleeWizard; if you know what you're up against, you can kill it.
That's one thing I was considering implementing. So you think it's OP?

Thump
2012-11-29, 11:18 PM
Well, it gets fairly absurd at higher levels. At 19, it's a free action to change them all, which means that you can basically make your attacks do insta-gibs on anything without significant amounts of DR or AC- oh wait, strength bonus plus attack bonus plus damage bonus. Even if he's flying, you have natural flight to counter that. Spellcaster? Free SR 60 or so. There's literally nothing short of death effects or no-save-just-dies (Death effects can't even affect you if you pump your CON or saves.) Basically, the only thing this character lacks is natural teleportation/planeshift to escape stuff like the Negative Energy Plane at high levels.

So yeah, placing limits on the amounts of meditations is probably good.

Tired right now, will take a much more thorough look at it tomorrow.

danzibr
2012-11-30, 11:11 AM
Yeah, SR 60 is too high. Should so 2x instead of 3x. SR 40 is still very good, but can be overcome. Then again it's supposed to be powerful. We're talking about level 20 characters.

At level 20 you can get +7 to any of your ability scores at the price of 21 flow per ability. And +10 to attack and damage, 20 flow apiece. So... +13 to attack and damage, assuming you're beating with your fists/other body parts. This is decent. Is it too good? Should we not give melee nice things?

On the topic of limiting meditations, I was thinking like... you can change them once per minute. Or something. So at level 19 you walk into an encounter and only once you can switch everything around for free. This would also affect things like teleportation. And the Alacrity one. Hrm.

Thump
2012-11-30, 11:18 AM
Changing them once per minute would probably be good, actually. The main issue I had wasn't with the power of combinations (Except for the SR, that was ridiculous, and it's much better now), it was with the sheer versatility, which allowed for T2 potential. I'd like to see this bridge between T3 and T2, maybe a 2.5, if you catch my meaning.

Also, quick stupid question, can one use a free action out of turn?

Wyntonian
2012-11-30, 11:42 AM
Also, quick stupid question, can one use a free action out of turn?

No, that's an immediate action, like casting Feather Fall, that takes your swift action for the next turn.

danzibr
2012-11-30, 11:52 AM
I was actually sort of aiming for tier 2 potential. Well, more like low tier 2, higher tier 3, or tier 2.5 as you said.

I did change the SR and a few other things... but it's all in a text document rather than the original post. I'll try to get it up this weekend and say what's new in the change log. I mainly want to revamp Gentle Touch and add some PrC's.

Hanuman
2012-11-30, 04:58 PM
Does meditation SR and PR stack with existing SR and PR?

danzibr
2012-11-30, 05:04 PM
Does meditation SR and PR stack with existing SR and PR?
I intended overlap. I suppose I could lessen it and have it be an insight bonus like everything else. I'll fix this when I can.

Wyntonian
2012-11-30, 06:22 PM
I intended overlap. I suppose I could lessen it and have it be an insight bonus like everything else. I'll fix this when I can.

I'd suggest overlap. As in, whichever one's higher.

danzibr
2012-11-30, 10:51 PM
Probably stick with overlap.

Alright, I have an idea I'd like input on. That is, if I should even pursue it.

Rather than having the current ACF, how about 3 base classes? Have on with half BAB, one with medium BAB, one with full BAB. I'd also limit the meditations known. The half BAB knows the most, full BAB the least. I also plan on nerfing the flow the medium BAB gets. Then the half BAB would also get an increased flow cap and better meditation stuff, maybe better flying progression, better at external meditations, etc.

I'm not sure if they'd be dissimilar enough to warrant splitting it into 3 base classes.

Hanuman
2012-12-01, 03:09 AM
Well, the dreamer class I've been working on (which incidentally also uses Flow Points) uses a flat progression gain, as it's designed to be a stupidly flexible class (to the point where it's almost a generic class system rather than an actual class). It's evolved out of everything usable from the flowdancer without any of the things that aren't needed to make the class fun.

What I've found is that the model for Flow Points I've been using has gravitated towards a flat progression and it's a small number rather than a big number, and it's got a much higher flat gain per level than it's stat gain.

The philosophy behind this:
-Encourages stat placements while not requiring them.
-Makes investing points important, if you need to invest 3-5 points in anything worthwhile then you should probably have 3-5 times less points.
-Makes sure that balancing to level is consistant. Continued:

Consistent points to levels means you are going to have a fixed average, here's an example to help:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240717
Draken's evolutionist (which you should be using to help reference SR balance)

It uses the mutation system, notice the flat point addition plus the option for more points with teratomorphisms

Boiled down, heres:
Mutator Level / Mutations At That Level / Plus Mutation Teratomorphisms
1 / 5 / 5
4 / 14 / 17
7 / 23 / 29
10 / 34 / 43
13 / 43 / 55
16 / 52 / 67

When you can be assured a minimum and maximum variable at any given level within 0-15 point drift (which a character must sacrifice to gain advantage) you are going to immediately have an idea over both the scale of balance a single point is worth, or what cost an ability should have when implementing it.

danzibr
2012-12-01, 08:44 PM
Well, there's going to be a major renovation. Major. I'm going to start a new thread at some point, whenever I have at least the beginning of the new stuff done. I'd still like to discuss balance issues and new ideas here, though. Here's what I have planned:

1 post for intro
1 post for flowist
1 post for martial flowist
1 post for contemplative flowist
1 post for list of fusions (renaming for meditations)... expect a lot more
1 post for feats... and the like
1 post for PrC's
1 post for races (2 planned)
1 post for everything else and changelog

So yeah, I don't have enough reserved posts now. This project may seem to die for a while, but rest assured I'm working on it, if not daily, and when it comes back it'll be (hopefully) much better.

danzibr
2012-12-04, 08:41 AM
If you lower the damage then you can allow it to have more imaginative effects in combat broadening the usage and playability of the class. Why not fling enemies into other enemies? Hear enemies behind a door? Why not break down the door with your repulsor-blast while taking cover beside it, while you leave clear line of sight for your casters and snipers to shoot through it? Perhaps with a zone of silence and an illusion of a closed door there too for extra points?

Magical amulet of really awesome badassery making the miniboss too cheese? Grab the amulet and smack his face, something will have to give, and if you are a warforged it will almost certainly be either his neck or the amulet chain.

Ice to meet you mr. padlock, snow problem! Use both hands to direct a blast inward and crush the tumbler in on itself, or just blast the lock sideways.

Walls thinly honeycombed with murderholes in em? Crossbows gettin you down? Start picking up rocks and force blasting them into the walls. If you can blast 200lbs of meat 40' then you can probably smash through a thin wall, a tower shield or a door down with a 20lb rock at 20' range.

There's a lot of applications for this, and if they seem overpowered then I'd revisit why you want to deal more damage in a touch attack than conventional weapons abilities deal without ignoring armor.
I keep revisiting this post. I've fixed Gentle Touch a bit. Here's the current version:
Gentle Touch (Ex): Every flowist learns how to concentrate their flux into the tips of their fingers. Martial flowists also know how to do this to their melee weapons.
- Beginning at first level a flowist may use a standard action to make a melee touch attack against any foe within reach. This does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If she fails to touch her opponent, nothing happens. If she succeeds she deals 1d6 force damage (and so this can damage incorporeal creatures) per flowist two levels, rounded up. She can choose to have this ability deal an equal amount of nonlethal damage instead.
- In addition, she knocks her opponent back 5 feet per 1d6 damage dealt subject to the following constraints: for every size category larger than the flowist, the opponent is knocked back 10 fewer feet, and for every size category smaller than the opponent, the opponent is knocked back an addition 10 feet. If the opponent strikes a wall before being knocked back its full distance it takes an additional 1d4 damage per remaining 5 feet; this damage is bludgeoning if the surface is relatively smooth and piercing or slashing (or any combination of the three) otherwise, subject to the dungeon master's discretion. If she chooses to deal nonlethal damage her opponent is not knocked back.
- The opponent may make a Reflex save (10+1/2 Flowist level+modifier) to reduce the distance knocked back, and consequently the damage received from being knocked back, by half, where modifier is used to mean Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma modifier depending on if she follows the Path of the Mind, Will or the Heart, respectively (see Path of Mastery below).
- Due to the nature of Gentle Touch, the flowist and her opponent must both be on the ground or both be flying. For example, a flowist may not fly over a grounded opponent and Gentle Touch them from above, knocking them into the ground. Furthermore, the flowist and her opponent cannot be in the same square, making Gentle Touch of little use for tiny or grappling flowists.
- For example, Heib, a fifth level human flowist using Gentle Touch would deal 3d6 force damage to any opponent he successfully touches. A medium opponent would be knocked back 15 feet, a large opponent 5 feet, a huge opponent not at all. If Heib is flanking a large opponent with a spiked wall, the opponent would take an initial 3d6 force damage then 1d4 piercing damage because it was not pushed back 5 feet. If the opponent makes its Reflex save then it would not be knocked back at all and so not suffer the 1d4 piercing damage.

- Furthermore, Gentle Touch may be improved by focusing flux into it.
And... that's it for now. I'm wondering if the damage now is good. You said somewhere that 1d6 force damage per 4 levels would be decent. I want Gentle Touch to not be their main class feature, just a neat bonus. Also, how about if they exceed the Reflex save by so much they're not knocked back at all?

Hanuman
2012-12-06, 03:06 AM
I keep revisiting this post. I've fixed Gentle Touch a bit. Here's the current version:
Gentle Touch (Ex): Every flowist learns how to concentrate their flux into the tips of their fingers. Martial flowists also know how to do this to their melee weapons.
- Beginning at first level a flowist may use a standard action to make a melee touch attack against any foe within reach. This does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If she fails to touch her opponent, nothing happens. If she succeeds she deals 1d6 force damage (and so this can damage incorporeal creatures) per flowist two levels, rounded up. She can choose to have this ability deal an equal amount of nonlethal damage instead.
- In addition, she knocks her opponent back 5 feet per 1d6 damage dealt subject to the following constraints: for every size category larger than the flowist, the opponent is knocked back 10 fewer feet, and for every size category smaller than the opponent, the opponent is knocked back an addition 10 feet. If the opponent strikes a wall before being knocked back its full distance it takes an additional 1d4 damage per remaining 5 feet; this damage is bludgeoning if the surface is relatively smooth and piercing or slashing (or any combination of the three) otherwise, subject to the dungeon master's discretion. If she chooses to deal nonlethal damage her opponent is not knocked back.
- The opponent may make a Reflex save (10+1/2 Flowist level+modifier) to reduce the distance knocked back, and consequently the damage received from being knocked back, by half, where modifier is used to mean Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma modifier depending on if she follows the Path of the Mind, Will or the Heart, respectively (see Path of Mastery below).
- Due to the nature of Gentle Touch, the flowist and her opponent must both be on the ground or both be flying. For example, a flowist may not fly over a grounded opponent and Gentle Touch them from above, knocking them into the ground. Furthermore, the flowist and her opponent cannot be in the same square, making Gentle Touch of little use for tiny or grappling flowists.
- For example, Heib, a fifth level human flowist using Gentle Touch would deal 3d6 force damage to any opponent he successfully touches. A medium opponent would be knocked back 15 feet, a large opponent 5 feet, a huge opponent not at all. If Heib is flanking a large opponent with a spiked wall, the opponent would take an initial 3d6 force damage then 1d4 piercing damage because it was not pushed back 5 feet. If the opponent makes its Reflex save then it would not be knocked back at all and so not suffer the 1d4 piercing damage.

- Furthermore, Gentle Touch may be improved by focusing flux into it.
And... that's it for now. I'm wondering if the damage now is good. You said somewhere that 1d6 force damage per 4 levels would be decent. I want Gentle Touch to not be their main class feature, just a neat bonus. Also, how about if they exceed the Reflex save by so much they're not knocked back at all?

1) Damage
Damage is good, that's comparable with a rogue now and it's still force and you still get a free bullrush. If they hit a wall? Great you deal dmg comparable with the dagger or bow. Difference being the rogue will use their flat foot dc and you'll use their touch AC.

2) Knockback
I wouldn't use reflex at all, I'd treat it like a bullrush attempt. Bullrush is an integrated system and accounts for things like quadrupeds and you can improve it and such. It's a free bullrush, that's what you are doing.

When you design a mechanic, use either the closest example as a reference if not integrate the reference into the mechanic. There's plenty of things that knock a person prone (which are usually settled by fort saves) but here are some things that deal with knockback:

Here's some references for balance, most relevant is Blast of Force:

Enchantments
Knockback Weapon (+3) (Ranged Only)
On a hit, the attack initiates a Bull Rush action, as a Medium
creature with a +8 Strength modifier which pushes the
opponent as far back as possible.

Clouting Weapon (+3) (Any Weapon)
On a hit, the opponent is moved backward 10’ (or knocked
Prone if he/she cannot move backwards) (FortNeg, DC19).
If the opponent fails the first save, he/she is Stunned for
1 round (FortNeg, DC19).

Specifics
Lance of the Last Rider (+1 Lance) (Level 5+)
When the wielder charges a mountedopponent from the back of a
steed, the weapon initiates a Bull Rush action. If successful, the
opponent is moved back, but the mount is not.

Bracers of Chimera (Level 5+)
+2 Armor bonus to AC
Each of the following 3 abilities may be used
1/day. When activated, the wearer’s hands
& head changing into the three heads of a
Chimera for a moment, though the wearer
does not drop anything.
Dragon – 30’ Cone of 6d6 Fire damage
(Ref˝, DC 14).
Goat – Melee attacks does 1d6 Bludgeoning
damage & a Bull Rush at +13.
Lion – 30’ Cone of 2d4 Sonic dmg (no save)
& Deaf for 1d6 rnds (FortNeg, DC 13).

Gauntlets of Bashing (Level 9+)
(Unlisted /day error, find entry on (DR323 p87))
Time per day, the wearer may activate the
gauntlets as a Free Action. For 1 round, the
wearer’s Unarmed Strikes do 2d6
Bludgeoning damage and a struck opponent

Ring of Ram (Level 9+) (Seen in DnD: The Movie II)
A force-bolt in the shape of a ram is
generated by this ring on command. The
wearer decides if 1, 2, or 3 charges are
expended with each use.
If aimed at a door, makean Open Door check
at (+6 + the number of charges).
Otherwise, make a ranged attack with a 50’
limit doing 1d6/charge damage. If within
30’, the target also subject to a Bull Rush at
(+10 + the number of charges).
50 charges.
is also affected by a Bull Rush at +11.

Spells
Forcewave(MoF p95)
<Evoc[force], VSF(string, water), 1StdAct, Medium-range, Fort˝, SR applies>
– One target takes 1d4+1 damage plus Bull Rush (Str 18, Medium-size, & Charging). If the target’s save is successful, it takes 1 hp.
Horizikaul’s Boom(MoF p101)

Battering Ram(Spell p24)(MoF p80)
<Evoc[force], VSF(ram’s horn), 1StdAct, Close-range, Instantaneous, no save, SR applies>
– Target takes 1d6 damage. If the target was a creature, it is inflicted with a Bull Rush at +10. If the target was a door (or other movable object), it is force open with a Strength check at +10.

Bigby’s Striking Fist(PH2 p103)
<Evoc[force], VSM(3 glass beads), 1StdAct, Medium-range, Instantaneous, Ref˝, SR applies>
– The ‘fist’ makes an attack followed by a Bull Rush on the target.
a) attempt an attack with a bonus of +(Caster level + Primary Stat modifier + 2);
b) if successful, the target takes 1d6 per 2 levels nonlethal damage (max 5d6) (Ref˝);
c) if the target fails his/her Reflex save in the above step, make Bull Rush check with a bonus of +(4 + 1 per 2 caster levels);
d) if successful, the target is moved in a direction of the caster’s choice, though this movement does not provoke Attacks of Opportunity.
The ‘fist’ does not provoke an Attack of Opportunity when attempting the Bull Rush.

Blast of Force(Spell p31)(CDiv p153)
<Evoc[force][ray], VS, 1StdAct, Medium-range, Instantaneous, Fort˝, SR applies>
– Does 1d6 Force damage per 2 lvls (max 5d6) (no save), plus knocked Prone (FortNeg – target applies his/her size & stability modifiers against a Bull Rush to the save roll).

Melf’s Unicorn Arrow(PH2 p119)
<Conj, VSF(25gp ivory replica of a unicorn horn), 1StdAct, Medium-range, Instantaneous, no save, no SR>
– Launch one ‘Unicorn Arrow’ + one per 3 levels above 5th (max 5 at 17th level) at one or more targets within 15’ of each other.
Each ‘Unicorn Arrow’ requires a ranged touched attack to hit and does 1d8+8 damage. In addition, any target damaged by one or more ‘Unicorn Arrows’ receives a Bull Rush (DC 21 + 2 per ‘Unicorn Arrow’ after the 1st). If the target fails the check, he/she is moved back 5’ + 5’ for each 5 points by which the check failed.

Capricious Zephyr(Spell p43)(DR314 p38)
<Evoc[air], VS, 1StdAct, Medium-range, 1rnd/lvl, SR applies>
– Creates a 5’ diameter sphere of powerful wind that the caster can move up to 30’ per round as a Move Action. If the sphere comes in contact with a creature, its movement for that round end. The target is subjected to a Bull Rush action at +6 in a random direction as far as possible. If pushed, the target is also knocked Prone (RefNeg).

Cyclonic Blast(Spell p57)(DR314 p38)
<Evoc[air], VSF(child’s spinning top), 1StdAct, Instantaneous, Ref˝, SR applies>
– A tornado of air moves from the caster out in a 120’ Line. If the line strikes a barrier that it does not destroy, it stops.
a) targets takes 1d6 per level (max 15d6), though objects bigger than Large-size only take half damage;
b) if a creature failed its Reflex save, it is subjected to a Bull Rush action at +12. When resisting the Bull Rush, airborne creatures are treated as one size smaller.

Telekinesis(PH p292)
<Trans, VS, 1StdAct, Long-range>
– The caster can mentally move an object weighing up to 25 pound per level (max 375 pounds), in one of three ways:
Sustained Force: The target object can be moved as if by one hand in any direction up to 20’/rnd as long as the caster maintains concentration, up to 1rnd/lvl. If the target is a creature or in the possession of a creature, it gets a Will save to negate & SR applies.
Combat Maneuver: Once per round, the caster my attempt to telekinetically Bull Rush, Disarm, Grapple (including Pin), or Trip an opponent. These actions are resolved normally, except that the Caster level is used in place of a Base Attack Bonus, & the caster’s Primary Stat modifier is used instead of Strength or Dexterity. There is no save, but SR applies. The caster may continue this effect by Concentrating, up to 1rnd/lvl.
Violent Thrust: Up to 15 target objects (up to the total weight allowance) are hurled in a desired direction rapidly, expending the spell instantaneously. All target objects must be within a 10’ area & can be thrown up to 10’/lvl. In order to hit a creature with a targeted object, the caster must make an attack roll, using his/her Base Attack Bonus + Primary Stat modifier. If the target object was a weapon, it does normal damage (no Strength modifier), while other objects do from 1hp to 1d6hp damage per 25 pounds, depending on the object. If a creature is to be thrown, it receives a Will save to negated (SR applies) & it takes 1d6 damage if thrown against a wall.

Bigby’s Clenched Fist(PH p203)
<Evoc[force], VSF(leather glove)/DF, 1StdAct, Medium-range, 1rnd/lvl(D), SR applies>
– Creates a magical 10’x10’ hand which attacks a target designated by the caster once per round. The caster chooses the target as a Move Action, and the hand may move 60’ and automatically attacks each round. The hand’s attack bonus is (Caster level + Primary Stat modifier + 10). Its damage is 1d8+12 & Fortitude save or become Stunned for 1 round.
The hand may also be directed to interpose itself between the caster and a target, or Bull Rush an opponent with an attack bonus of (Caster level + Primary Stat modifier + 14).
The hand has the caster’s normal hit points & saving throw and has AC 20.

Bigby’s Crushing Hand(PH p203)
<Evoc[force], VSF(egg shell)M(snakeskin glove)/DF, 1StdAct, Medium-range, 1rnd/lvl(D), SR applies>
– Creates a magical 10’x10’ hand which stays in between the creator & a designated target and either
a) tries to push the target away (treat as a Bull’s Rush at +18) up to the spell’s range;
b) attempts to grapple to target (Touch check: +11 + Caster level + Primary Stat modifier; Grapple check: +16 + Caster level + Primary Stat modifier; Damage: 2d6+12 normal damage)
The hand may also be directed to interpose itself between the caster and a target, or Bull Rush an opponent with an attack bonus of (Caster level + Primary Stat modifier + 18).
The hand also provide a +4 Cover bonus to AC for the caster against that target. The target can be changed as a Move Action. The hand has the caster’s normal hit points & saving throw and has an AC of 20.

Rushing Waters(Und p61)
<Conj(sum)[water], VS/DF, 1StdAct, Medium-range, Instantaneous>
– A great wave of water is generated from the spell’s target point out in a 15’ radius Spread. All creatures in the area of effect are targeted with a Bull Rush with a +30 bonus. Each target that looses its Strength check moves 5’ + 5’ per 5 points which it lost the check. Any creature moved 5’ or more must make a Reflex save or fall prone.
Any normal fire in the area of effect, up to a bonfire, is extinguished.

Tidal Surge(CDiv p183) (CDivErrata)+
<Evoc[water], VS, 1StdAct, Medium-range, Instantaneous, Ref˝, SR applies>
– If the caster is within Medium-range of a large, natural source of water, then he/she creates a wave of water with the following effects:
a) targets all creatures within a 20’ radius Burst;
b) each target takes 1d8 per two caster levels (max 7d8);
c) each target receives a Bull Rush at +9. If successful, the target is moved 5’ + 5’ per 5 points that the wave’s check was greater than the target’s check.
If the caster is not within range of a water source, the spell has the following effects:
a) targets a single creature;
b) the target still takes 1d8 per two caster levels (max 7d8);
c) the target receives a Bull Rush at +3. If successful, the target is moved 5’ + 5’ per 5 points that the wave’s check was greater than the target’s check.
In either case, all non-magical exposed flames up to Large-size within a 20’ radius Burst are put out. Magical fires are dispelled on a successful Dispel Check (max +10).
Illusion

Dark Discorperation(CArc p132)
<Invocation, S, 1StdAct, Personal, 24hrs(D)>
– The invoker becomes a Swarm of Diminutive-sized shadows shaped like bats that take up 8 contiguous 5’ squares. While in this form, the invoker gains the following:
a) may only take Move Actions;
b) Strength score becomes 1;
c) +6 bonus to Dexterity;
d) all Armor & Natural Armor bonuses to AC are suppressed;
e) receive a +4 Size bonus to AC;
f) receives a Deflection bonus to AC equal to the invoker’s Charisma modifier;
g) Fly speed 40’ with Perfect maneuverability;
h) able to pass through openings as a Diminutive-sized creature could;
i) any creature in the invoker’s spaces at the end of the invoker’s turn takes 4d6 damage, which is treated as ‘magic’ and has the same alignment as the invoker;
j) any creature in the invoker’s spaces at the beginning of the creature’s turn is Nauseated for 1 round (FortNeg);
k) spellcasting within the invoker’s spaces requires a Concentration check (DC = 20 + spell level);
l) all of the invoker’s possessions are absorbed into the swarm and have their abilities suppressed;
m)not subjected to critical hits, flanking, weapon damage, being tripped, grappled, bull rushed, etc.
n) immune to spells & effect that target a specific number of creatures (except for min-affecting);
o) takes +50% damage from area-of-effect spells;
p) not vulnerable to wind effects; &
q) if reduced to 0 hp or knocked unconscious, Dark Discorperation ends and the invoker ends up in one of the squares he/she previously occupied.
Effective Spell Level: 8th.

9th Obedient Avalanche(PGF p108)(CDiv p170)
<Conj(creat)[cold], VS, 1StdAct, Medium-range, Instantaneous, no SR>
– Creates a mass of snow that falls on a 20’ radius area & expands out from there to a 40’ radius area. All flames in the 40’ radius are extinguished, even if magical. Once created, the snow is non-magical and melts normally.
All creatures within 20’ of the point of origin take the following effects:
a) 1d8 lethal damage per 2 caster levels (max 10d8) (Ref˝);
b) 1d6 Cold damage per 2 caster levels (max 10d6) (Ref˝);
c) Buried under the snow (RefNeg) (see DMG3.5 p90 for details);
d) The area is covered with Heavy Snow (see DMG3.5 p94 for details).
All creatures from 20’ to 40’ from the point of origin take the following effects:
a) 1d4 lethal damage per 2 caster levels (max 10d4) (Ref˝);
b) 1d3 Cold damage per 2 caster levels (max 10d3) (Ref˝);
c) Bull Rushed away from the point of origin at a +13 modifier (RefNeg);
d) The area is covered with Snow (see DMG3.5 p94 for details).
All small trees & vegetation are uprooted by the avalanche, leaving Light Rubble after the snow has melted. All structures take 1d6x10 hit-points of damage.

Annnd you're welcome.

danzibr
2012-12-06, 08:35 AM
Man, that's a lot of info. Thanks.

I've read about the martial arts gentle touch thingy and... at least according to some stuff on the internet it's more of a balance thing than anything else. That's why I was thinking Reflex save. Also, making it like a bull rush takes some of the flavor away in that regard. A stable creature should get some sort of bonus but a really strong one shouldn't necessarily. Hmm. Yeah, I'll have to think more.

Here's the newer version.
Gentle Touch (Ex): Every flowist learns how to concentrate their flux into the tips of their fingers. Martial flowists also know how to do this to their melee weapons.
- Beginning at first level a flowist may use a standard action to make a melee touch attack against any foe within reach. This does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If she fails to touch her opponent, nothing happens. If she succeeds she deals 1d6 force damage (and so this can damage incorporeal creatures) per flowist two levels, rounded up. She can choose to have this ability deal an equal amount of nonlethal damage instead.
- In addition, she knocks her opponent back 5 feet per 1d6 damage dealt subject to the following constraints: for every size category larger than the flowist, the opponent is knocked back 10 fewer feet, and for every size category smaller than the opponent, the opponent is knocked back an addition 10 feet. If the opponent strikes a wall before being knocked back its full distance it takes an additional 1d4 damage per remaining 5 feet; this damage is bludgeoning if the surface is relatively smooth and piercing or slashing (or any combination of the three) otherwise, subject to the dungeon master's discretion. If she chooses to deal nonlethal damage her opponent is not knocked back.
- The opponent may make a Reflex save (DC 10+1/2 Flowist level+modifier) to reduce the distance knocked back, and consequently the damage received from being knocked back, by half, where modifier is used to mean Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma modifier depending on if she follows the Path of the Mind, Will or the Heart, respectively (see Path of Mastery below). Exceeding the DC by 5 or more results in no knock back. Creatures with more than two legs or which are otherwise exceptionally stable (such as Dwarves) gain a +4 bonus on this save when standing on the ground.
- Due to the nature of Gentle Touch, the flowist and her opponent must both be on the ground or both be flying. For example, a flowist may not fly over a grounded opponent and Gentle Touch them from above, knocking them into the ground. Furthermore, the flowist and her opponent cannot be in the same square, making Gentle Touch of little use for tiny or grappling flowists.
- For example, Heib, a fifth level human flowist using Gentle Touch would deal 3d6 force damage to any opponent he successfully touches. A medium opponent would be knocked back 15 feet, a large opponent 5 feet, a huge opponent not at all. If Heib is flanking a large opponent with a spiked wall, the opponent would take an initial 3d6 force damage then 1d4 piercing damage because it was not pushed back 5 feet. If the opponent makes its Reflex save then it would not be knocked back at all and so not suffer the 1d4 piercing damage.

- Furthermore, Gentle Touch may be improved by focusing flux into it with the following effects.

For every two flux focused above half the flowist's level, rounded up, Gentle Touch deals an additional 1d6 force damage.
For every flux focused up to half the flowist's level, rounded up, 1d6 of the force damage is converted to 1d6+1 cold damage. If half the flowist's level flux is focused the saving throw to resist being knocked back is a Fortitude save instead of a reflex save. For every two flux focused beyond half the flowist's level, rounded up, Gentle Touch deals an additional 1d6+1 cold damage.
For every flux focused up to half the flowist's level, rounded up, 1d6 of the force damage is converted to 1d6 electricity damage. For every two flux focused beyond half the flowist's level, rounded up, Gentle Touch deals an additional 1d6 electricity damage and the saving throw to resist being knocked back is increased by 1.
For every flux focused up to half the flowist's level, rounded up, 1d6 of the force damage is converted to 1d6+1 fire damage. For every two flux focused beyond half the flowist's level, rounded up, Gentle Touch deals an additional 1d6 fire damage.
For every flux focused up to half the flowist's level, rounded up, 1d6 of the force damage is converted to 1d6-1 sonic damage. For every two flux focused beyond half the flowist's level, rounded up, Gentle Touch deals an additional 1d6-1 sonic damage. The sonic damage ignores an object's hardness.
For every flux focused up to half the flowist's level, rounded up, 1d6 of the force damage is converted to 1d6 acid damage. For every two flux focused beyond half the flowist's level, rounded up, Gentle Touch deals an additional 1d6 acid damage. The acid, unless somehow neutralized, lasts for another round, dealing another 1d3 points of damage per two flux focused in that round.

Hanuman
2012-12-07, 04:24 AM
It's reflex to catch your footing after it's lost or to dodge the effect, it's fort to drop someone, and it's bull rush to push them.

So, reflex does make sense if you're shooting them off the ground with force, literally blasting up their weight. Example would be Tidal Surge lifting you off the ground, but it still does a bull-rush. Once you are lifted it says, "do a reflex save to get your footing", essentially.

Fort makes sense if it just knocks em like a truck, and bull rush makes sense if there's even a smidgen of martial resistance at play as it's going to be opposed by CMD... and if you aren't using pathfinder then shame on you ;p

danzibr
2012-12-09, 09:34 PM
it's fort to drop someone
I'm afraid I don't understand this.

So, reflex does make sense if you're shooting them off the ground with force, literally blasting up their weight. Example would be Tidal Surge lifting you off the ground, but it still does a bull-rush. Once you are lifted it says, "do a reflex save to get your footing", essentially.

Fort makes sense if it just knocks em like a truck, and bull rush makes sense if there's even a smidgen of martial resistance at play as it's going to be opposed by CMD... and if you aren't using pathfinder then shame on you ;p[/QUOTE]
Shame on me indeed :P

Hrm, yeah. I do want it to be a balance thing. I guess I myself don't yet really know what I want Gentle Touch to be. I think of the anime thing where a really baddonkey person reaches out and barely touches someone and they get blown way back. And it currently is force damage... hmm. Maybe you're making me see the light.

The closest I could find is this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdaLYvF6jTY), but it's still not right. That video but without a finger flick, which sort of defeats the whole just-touching aspect.

Hanuman
2012-12-10, 05:32 PM
Despite that not being a melee touch attack, I know exactly what you want now.

This is balanced, and illustrates your effect while still being viable in PvP and allowing you to improve it martially with feats, size, ability scores, BAB and the like. You may want to re-word it.
DMG 1d6/2lvl
Range Melee
PerDay Unlimited
Fort Half Dmg/Knockback
Special: Knockback

Declare you are using this ability then make a melee touch attack, if the attack hits you deal 1d6/2lvl force damage and get a free bull rush on the target with the exception that you do not move from your square and that you use [INSERT KEY ATTRIBUTE] in place of your strength score for purposes of calculating CMB.
Your opponent rolls a DC10+1/2LVL+[KEY ATTRIBUTE] Fortitude save, if successful you only push the opponent half the distance and deal half the damage.
If your opponent fails her fortitude save and is on any terrain that requires a check to run across or collides with any object or creature she must make a DC10+1/2LVL+[KEY ATTRIBUTE] Reflex save or be knocked prone and any creatures your opponent collides with must make the same reflex save with the DC lowered equal to [their CMD vs bullrush -10].
If the opponent hits another movable object or creature use the original bull rush roll to determine the result instead of rolling a new one.
---------
BULL RUSH RULES
Bull Rush

You can make a bull rush as a standard action or as part of a charge, in place of the melee attack. You can only bull rush an opponent who is no more than one size category larger than you. A bull rush attempts to push an opponent straight back without doing any harm. If you do not have the Improved Bull Rush feat, or a similar ability, initiating a bull rush provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver.

If your attack is successful, your target is pushed back 5 feet. For every 5 by which your attack exceeds your opponent's CMD you can push the target back an additional 5 feet. You can move with the target if you wish but you must have the available movement to do so. If your attack fails, your movement ends in front of the target.

An enemy being moved by a bull rush does not provoke an attack of opportunity because of the movement unless you possess the Greater Bull Rush feat. You cannot bull rush a creature into a square that is occupied by a solid object or obstacle. If there is another creature in the way of your bull rush, you must immediately make a combat maneuver check to bull rush that creature. You take a –4 penalty on this check for each creature being pushed beyond the first. If you are successful, you can continue to push the creatures a distance equal to the lesser result. For example, if a fighter bull rushes a goblin for a total of 15 feet, but there is another goblin 5 feet behind the first, he must make another combat maneuver check against the second goblin after having pushed the first 5 feet. If his check reveals that he can push the second goblin a total of 20 feet, he can continue to push both goblins another 10 feet (since the first goblin will have moved a total of 15 feet).

Combat Maneuver Rules
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Combat-Maneuver-Bonus

danzibr
2012-12-11, 07:54 AM
Thanks, I like it. That's pretty close to what it already is, need to change the save from reflex to fort. I'll probably throw in a secondary reflex save to not be knocked prone. Thanks Hanuman.

Also, I imagine I'll have my Book of Flux post up in the next couple of days. I've been working on it a lot.

Hanuman
2012-12-11, 02:55 PM
To deal additional damage when you hit a wall use dungeoncrasher fighter ACF for ref., it costs a few feats for the fighter if I remember.

danzibr
2012-12-12, 10:36 PM
To deal additional damage when you hit a wall use dungeoncrasher fighter ACF for ref., it costs a few feats for the fighter if I remember.
Hmm, that dungeoncrasher thing is enlightening. That's quite a bit of damage. 4d6+twice your strength from levels 2 to 5, 8d6+thrice your strength thereafter. Not bad, not bad.

EDIT: Hopefully I'll get the new post up in the next few days. I'm lacking with a few important ideas, but hey, that's one of the purposes of posting it online, right? Also, the bull rush thing... I still have mixed feelings. Not that bull rushes are that tricky, but I feel it unnecessarily complicates it, especially when you throw multiple bull rushes. It's definitely simpler to just have one save, should speed up combat.

Hanuman
2012-12-13, 06:53 AM
Mind you, that's the most powerful single fighter option that exists and force is more potent than bludgeoning, and that gentle touch does not need collision to apply the initial damage. So really I would say that even if gentle touch was just 2d6 force damage when making a bullrush rather than 4d6bludgeoning when hitting them into a wall, gentle touch would still be more powerful.