I lost my faith in humanity at Puttgarden border shop

[Miklus]

I was on a little trip to Lübeck, Germany this weekend. Very nice city. It was a business-related trip, but I manged to get up early Saturday and wander around for a few hours taking photos. I had the whole city to myself. Lots of "old stuff" as the Americans call it and nice steampunk-style bridges. Very clean city too. Fun fact: The people of Lübeck eat nothing but marzipan. :smalltongue:

http://i50.tinypic.com/ndwmd5.jpg

Then, on the return journey, the Puttgarden border shop...OMG :smalleek: I wish I hadn't left my camera in the bus, because this was a spectacle. But this kind of blind-sided me.

It's not really a shop, it's a ship. I suppose this is for legal reasons. Technically it's a barge, I guess. It has neither stern nor aft and does not look seaworthy. It is permanently moored, has four stories and a total area of a medium-sized mall. It's like a Minoan maze, or an Ikea, the kind of maze where there is only one way through. In order to accommodate the flow of customers, there are several ramp-like escalators in parallel. There is even a long catwalk from the ferry to this ship so walking passengers can get there directly. You sail across, shop and sail back. This is all most Scandinavians see of Germany.

And this "ship" is filled with wall-to-wall booze. There is every kind of booze known to mankind. Any kind of wine, hard liquor, beer, you name it. And plenty of free samples too. If you where to sample them all, you could get pretty toasted by the end. Of cause, some Swedish people already where, but I suspect that they had taken it upon themselves to sample to goods. I'm pretty sure you are not supposed to open the bottles. :smallconfused: The only other commodity in significant quantities is candy.

The density of customers was about as tight as you can pack them when each is holding an heavy duty shopping trolly. Traffic jams where frequent. I managed to fight my way through this feeding frenzy and one long, traumatic walk later, somehow found myself at one of the 20 check-out lines with a single bottle of vodka and a bucket of liquorice. There was plenty of time in the queue fill out the legal documents needed to circumvent the bottle return-deposit system.

To add to the fun, the ship has an off-ramp. Imagine a 50kg woman trying to hang on to, let alone steer, a trolly with 500kg of booze and candy down this ramp. If you wish to buy more booze than you can physically move across the surface of the earth, the shop will conveniently deliver it outside by forklift. I retreated to my bus and enjoyed the spectacle of people stuffing their cars to the point where the rear suspension bottomed out. Sometimes they filled trailers too.

You sometimes see a tourist bus with a large trailer on the motorway. I always thought it was for skis and other large items. But now I know the truth. The trailer is divided into numbered compartments, one for each passenger. There is even a system of stickers so people can mark their booze.

So, having lost all faith in humanity, we are leaving this... conflagration of consumption and drive onto the ferry. One short sea voyage later comes the fun part. The danish customs. :smallbiggrin: You see, there are limits to how much booze you can take across the border. So they have installed a speed bump on the exit way. All the custom officers have to do is listen to the tell-tale sound of a overloaded car bottoming out on this bump and you are busted. As we where passing, the custom officers was going over another bus. The whole scene reminded me of those Serengeti wild life movies there the wildebeests have to cross a river and a few gets eaten by crocodiles.

So in conclusion: There is more to Germany than the border shop. If you can drive four hours each way for booze, please spend an extra hour to actually SEE something.

[Morph Bark]

I guess I should be glad I live across a different border of Germany's.

[Aedilred]

It depends on the reason for your visit, of course. You might as well take in some of the culture while you're there, but for a lot of people, they'll have taken a day to go there to stock up on several months' worth of booze, or perhaps get a supply in for a big entertainment occasion. It's fairly common in the UK to take a day trip to one of the French port towns to take advantage of the cheaper alcohol, and the difference in price (used to be) such that it's worth the cost of the journey both in terms of money and time.

[nedz]

The cause of this is the ridiculously high taxes on alcohol in Scandinavian. The people you saw were probably stocking up for Christmas for their friends and families.

Calais used to be similar, for the same reason.

[TheThan]

Wait, so you're complaining about finding booze in Germany?
I'd complain about not finding booze in Germany, and I'm not really a drinker.

[Greyshadow]

I live also very close to the German border, and although the
taxes on alcohol are not extremely high in Holland, still many
people buy their booze in Germany...

I hardly drink alcohol, so for me it is not important:smallsmile:[/I]

[Rawhide]

I live also very close to the German border, and although the
taxes on alcohol are not extremely high in Holland, still many
people buy their booze in Germany...

I hardly drink alcohol, so for me it is not important:smallsmile:[/I]

Dude, you live in The Netherlands, you're close to every border.

[Morph Bark]

Greyshadow, Rawhide is unto us. He's found out about our national secret quantum gateway project. Send out the reorangeurs.

[grimbold]

The cause of this is the ridiculously high taxes on alcohol in Scandinavian. The people you saw were probably stocking up for Christmas for their friends and families.

Calais used to be similar, for the same reason.

calais is really funny that way, i love how they unabashedly sell booze just like how just over the border in canada you can buy tons of cuban cigars :P

has anyone else been there?

[nedz]

calais is really funny that way, i love how they unabashedly sell booze just like how just over the border in canada you can buy tons of cuban cigars :P

has anyone else been there?

Not for a long time: I normally Fly over or Eurostar past Calais these days.

[Aedilred]

Calais is a pretty horrible place, probably because it used to be English. As a tourist, the hypermarches are pretty much the only reason to go there.

[nedz]

Calais is a pretty horrible place, probably because it used to be English. As a tourist, the hypermarches are pretty much the only reason to go there.

Well there are other reasons, but those don't usually involve spending any time in the town at all. The only time I went there was to change from a ferry to a train.

[Surrealistik]

Mine is lost daily on Youtube.

[Miklus]

I just realized somthing. The lady in front of me in the queue had ten of those large, purple, octagonal "Quality street" boxes of chocolate. The contain 2.9Kg of chocolate each, so that is 29Kg right there. Given the number of customers, it is entirely likely that someone that day bought their own weight in chocolate!

Otherwise you are allowed 110 Litres of beer, 90L of wine, 20L of strong wine and 10L hard liquor. Add in the bottles and that is easily 250Kg. If you are four to a car and has rented a trailer, you could litterally buy a ton of booze.

[Aedilred]

Otherwise you are allowed 110 Litres of beer, 90L of wine, 20L of strong wine and 10L hard liquor. Add in the bottles and that is easily 250Kg. If you are four to a car and has rented a trailer, you could litterally buy a ton of booze.
Only a ton? Hmm, I'll need a bigger car (and more passengers) for my expedition.

[Ravens_cry]

I'd need a bigger reason to lose my faith in humanity than people stocking up on various permutations of solutions of ethanol in diverse purity levels.

[ForzaFiori]

I live also very close to the German border, and although the
taxes on alcohol are not extremely high in Holland, still many
people buy their booze in Germany...

I hardly drink alcohol, so for me it is not important:smallsmile:[/I]

Sounds like Canada, except most people in the US go there to take advantage of the lower drinking age, rather than cheeper alcohol. Not living up in yankeeland, I wouldn't know the specifics.


Greyshadow, Rawhide is unto us. He's found out about our national secret quantum gateway project. Send out the reorangeurs.

Now if only some one other than the dutch knew what reorangeurs (although I'd assume it's something to do with orange) are, Rawhide might be worried. :smalltongue:

[enderlord99]

I've never had faith in anything, but I nonetheless believe humanity exists. I've seen it... well, some of it.

...That isn't what you meant, is it?

[Jay R]

If your faith in humanity depended on the notion that nobody in the entire world ever tries to minimize the taxes they pay, or does anything stupid, then it's high time you lost it.

The next step is to build a new, realistic faith in mankind, based on the realization that these silly, self-centered, mad, frail animals nonetheless manage to create symphonies, plays movies, sculpture, computers, world-wide communications systems, etc.

"I used to be upset that there were thorns on roses. Eventually I became glad to see roses on thorn bushes."

[Miklus]

If your faith in humanity depended on the notion that nobody in the entire world ever tries to minimize the taxes they pay, or does anything stupid, then it's high time you lost it.

The next step is to build a new, realistic faith in mankind, based on the realization that these silly, self-centered, mad, frail animals nonetheless manage to create symphonies, plays movies, sculpture, computers, world-wide communications systems, etc.

"I used to be upset that there were thorns on roses. Eventually I became glad to see roses on thorn bushes."

That's beautiful, man. You're a freaking poet.

Trying to get savings on items you would buy anyway is good rational behavior, but there is more at work here. The savings are not THAT great if you factor in the ferry cost and gas/car cost. Why would people drive ten hours just to save a few bucks?

I think there is some kind of "I beat the system" satisfaction at work here. And maybe some macho "I just bought so much beer I needed a trailer".

[nedz]

this (http://www.ias.org.uk/resources/factsheets/tax.pdf) document lists the tax differentials; you have to scroll down to page 3.

The difference is quite large, certainly if you are buying it by the ton.

[Winter_Wolf]

I can't see myself losing faith in humanity over people stocking up on booze, unless I knew for a fact that they were alcoholics and planning to drink it all by themselves just as fast as they could get the containers open.

Could be gifts, could be friends and/or family saying things like, "Oh, you're going over there? Hey bring me back a case of [product] would you?" I live in an intercultural family and the other half does a LOT (excessive amounts) of this "but I *have to* do it, it's our culture" stuff. :smallsigh: Okay, fine, YOU do that. Don't drag me into it and we're good. I'll do favors for people, but I don't play pack mule/courier. Certainly not for the acquaintance that I don't like and really wish you'd just cut ties with. Woah, okay, rant over, I feel better now.

Or it could be a year's supply of booze. I know some brewers who make their stock once a year, and that's it due to time or other reasons.

Personally I lost my faith in humanity on a Subway in Shanghai. Or maybe that was my soul, I forget which. :smalltongue:

[Snowbluff]

I've lost my faith in humanity as well...

... you used the word steampunk to describe architecture.

[Jay R]

I think there is some kind of "I beat the system" satisfaction at work here. And maybe some macho "I just bought so much beer I needed a trailer".

What a wonderfully easy and harmless way to get satisfaction! It hurts nobody and satisfies someone.

[nedz]

Have you considered that the people buying a ton of alcohol might be running a bar or hotel ?

[Jack Squat]

Have you considered that the people buying a ton of alcohol might be running a bar or hotel ?

Nah, normally businesses don't pay tax on items that are for resale, so there's no point in trying to avoid paying a higher tax on them and risking getting caught at customs.

[Zrak]

I really don't see how a store for liquor and candy would diminish faith in humanity in the least.

[willpell]

This is a hilarious anecdote. My faith in humanity is quantum-indeterminate; it both does and does not exist, and that's been true essentially as long as I've been myself (I was never born, I simply emerged within the mind of a more primitive lifeform). I believe both the best and the worst of us, and am baffled that they continue to coexist; I definitely see JayR's point, though I need to be in a better-than-average mood to actually agree with it.


Now if only some one other than the dutch knew what reorangeurs (although I'd assume it's something to do with orange) are, Rawhide might be worried. :smalltongue:

A word ending in "-eur" is probably French rather than Dutch...my high school French is rustier than a steampunk bridge, but I'd hazard a guess that "reorangeur" means something like "rearranger" (as in "the mob sent a few guys over to rearrange your face"), or possibly "repossessor" based on the context of the quote.


What a wonderfully easy and harmless way to get satisfaction! It hurts nobody and satisfies someone.

I view it very differently myself; the macho for sure is a destructive attitude, but even the first part is you taking pleasure in the fact that you've evaded a societal measure that was at least theoretically designed to fix some problem, and thus you're intentionally defying what the system-creator thought was best for the world (or some subset thereof). Such contrariness might not be too harmful on a small scale, but it is the motivator behind all manner of wasteful and destructive conflicts (out of respect for the no-politics rule, I will not be specific). Many people are content to try and evade rules that they know are dysfunctional, but I firmly believe that you should never just try to get away with something, you should actually change the rule prohibiting it, if you believe it shouldn't be prohibited, and if you're not willing to take that stand, you should respect the authority that you're unwilling to stand against. (I am aware that this is a somewhat unreasonable degree of absolutism on my part, but that is the dominant undercurrent in my current mood, and thus I can only speak from that perspective at the moment.)

[GolemsVoice]

Well, there IS such a thing as "voting with the feet" (or car trailers) :smallbiggrin:

[nedz]

Nah, normally businesses don't pay tax on items that are for resale, so there's no point in trying to avoid paying a higher tax on them and risking getting caught at customs.

Well maybe a social club, or they are planning a wedding, ...


I believe both the best and the worst of us, and am baffled that they continue to coexist; I definitely see JayR's point, though I need to be in a better-than-average mood to actually agree with it.

Even if humanity made massive strives forward — according to whatever criteria you might wish to apply — there would still be a range of behaviours.


A word ending in "-eur" is probably French rather than Dutch...my high school French is rustier than a steampunk bridge, but I'd hazard a guess that "reorangeur" means something like "rearranger" (as in "the mob sent a few guys over to rearrange your face"), or possibly "repossessor" based on the context of the quote.

If it is Dutch — then it might be a pun. Just guessing.