You see the character and grimace...

[Jon_Dahl]

When you have gamemastered, have you ever felt a sting in your guts when you have seen the character the player is going to play next?

I certainly have. Here's a list:

1. One of my players created a Soulbow. It was a 6th-level character with BAB +3. Yes, it's true, I swear. He multiclassed into rogue and soulknife in a way that his BAB stayed minimal. He couldn't hit almost anything.

2. A player created an 8th-level sorcerer who worshiped the God of Locks and Keys, but didn't take any spells that are associated with opening, closing or locking. He didn't even have open/close cantrip.

3. A fighter 5th-level/barbarian 1st-level that didn't have any ranged weapon at all. Not a single one. He died because of that.

4. At one point the players knew that they were going to meet a BBEG, which was an undead. Everyone knew that it was going to be a very tough fight. In the beginning of the session, one of the PCs became a 4th-level sorcerer. As his 2nd-level spell, he chose Invisibility.
TPK.
Had he chosen any combat related spell, they would have won the fight easily.

5. Last but not least:
The Blind Scout.
I had a 9th-level Scout in my game who had spot +4. Yes, it's true. He missed basically all of his Spot checks.

[Yora]

Halfling Rogue. Secretly Neutral Evil, but the other players don't know it.

I learned a lot as a GM that game.

[Paragon468]

I once played a Rogue (5)/Warlock (5) who chose only feats and equipment related to slaying large creatures (not the game term, just creatures in general that take up multiple squares). Then I got a bunch of equipment and weapons that gave me bonuses against dragons.

Basically, I had a dagger wielding Warlock who dealt an average of about 10 damage against most enemies and 200 against dragons.

Needless to say, we never encountered a dragon in that game.

[awa]

invisibility is a good spell i don't see why a sorcerer taking that has made some horrible design flaw.

and the scouts just the name of the class unless he was specifically playing a "scout" in game i don't see what the problem is.

[Paragon468]

and the scouts just the name of the class unless he was specifically playing a "scout" in game i don't see what the problem is.

True. But the irony in the name alone made me chuckle. Sounds like the kind of character I'd play.

[Ravens_cry]

invisibility is a good spell i don't see why a sorcerer taking that has made some horrible design flaw.

Maybe they thinks undead are immune to ALL illusions?

[Yora]

In what game?

Certainly not in any Edition of D&D or Pathfinder, as far as I know.

And I can't believe that two castings of acid arrow would turn an ipoosible fight into an easy fight.

[awa]

ugh that reminds me i once played with a dm who thought all undead had life sense with no range limit they just knew where you were no matter where you were. Worse he was one of those people who claimed he was a rule lawyer who knew all the rules backwards and forwards.

[Ravens_cry]

ugh that reminds me i once played with a dm who thought all undead had life sense with no range limit they just knew where you were no matter where you were. Worse he was one of those people who claimed he was a rule lawyer who knew all the rules backwards and forwards.
Ooh, I hate that kind. Rules Lawyers have their uses. Sometimes it is good to know the precedent exactly so one can decide whether to break it or not, which is why I respect Curmudgeon, even though I would never play with them.
Bad rules lawyers though, wow, no use for them at all.
Toss them into the darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.:smallamused:

[Paragon468]

Rule lawyers. Every party has one. In my usual group that's my role :smallbiggrin:

[Ravens_cry]

Rule lawyers. Every party has one. In my usual group that's my role :smallbiggrin:

Two in mine, and they always seem to ruin special occasions.:smalltongue:

[Paragon468]

Two in mine, and they always seem to ruin special occasions.:smalltongue:

It's even worse when people who are used to DMing play. I played with somebody who had done nothing but DM'd for years and he ended up spending half an hour in the middle of a battle arguing about the rules for rituals in 4e.

[snikrept]

I dunno, those character concepts mentioned seem pretty fun to play. Huge glaring weaknesses and downsides make for more interesting roleplay! I agree it would get annoying if the rest of the party were souped-up power characters, though.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I dunno, those character concepts mentioned seem pretty fun to play. Huge glaring weaknesses and downsides make for more interesting roleplay! I agree it would get annoying if the rest of the party were souped-up power characters, though.
The thing is, we're not talking about weaknesses and downsides, we're talking about crippling inabilities...

[awa]

honestly those weaknesses seem far from crippling i mean what
the soul bow is one bab weaker then a straight level 6 rogue so not that big a deal.

knock/ open close/ are not that powerful Ive never played a game where i though wow i really wish i had that spell. for a sorcerer with their limited spells known to take it would be mechanically unwise.

the barbarian not having a ranged weapon meh ive found that primary melee types often forget to spend money on non magical goods of all kinds and i tend to find myself glad i bought rope far more often then a ranged back up weapon

invisibility is an excellent spell useful even at high level much less cripplingly bad.

not having spot is hardly a game breaker spot is one of those skills that as long as some one has it it doesn't matter. (not to mention that fact that most dms i have played with very rarely allow you to make spot checks for anything useful.


so i personally don't feel any of the characters described were cripplingly bad

[NotScaryBats]

I once had a player bring a silly character, heavily homebrewed, with a weird race (like, half fey water orc or something) to a serious, by-the-books, fighting fey game.

I think he was trolling me, but it was such the opposite of what could be played that it made me :smallfrown:

[Averis Vol]

I once played in a game where it was basically two campaigns in the same world. and one of the players characters were:

The Prince of the Dwarven Kingdom

and

The Princess of the Elven Kingdom

.....

and they were dating

.....

so they got to share each others WBL in addition to the massive boost the DM gave them for being direct heirs to their respective thrones.

And I'm an OP munchkin when I want to play a monk 4/cleric 3/Sacred fist 3 :smallamused:

EDIT: I understand that the level spread is unoptimal, it was also intentional.

[Friv]

I played in a game once where we were given a very strong stat array: 17, 15, 14, 13, 12, 10. And we technically started at Level 4, so the 17 was generally an 18.

One player decided to play a blaster sorcerer, with almost exclusively ranged damage-dealing spells and no close-combat weapons or feats, and dropped the 17 and the bonus point into Strength. (IIRC, they went Strength 18, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 15.)

It took a lot of persuasion to convince them that this was not the best plan.

[Chilingsworth]

I think I made my fellow players wince when I used the following array:

18, 16, 16, 16, 14, 8

to play an ultra SAD wizard/beguiler/ultimate magus build (not even a perfectly optimized one, either, though the poor choices were intentional sacrifices to story.) Ended up with Str 14 (-2 racial), Dex 14, Con 16, Int 20 (+2 racial), Wis 8, Cha 16.

[rorikdude12]

One person made a quadriplegic 11-year-old with 800-lb telekinesis and invisibility, as well as mind control.

He was not able to gel with the group, which was geared more towards street-level mercenary work and being skilled and fun characters.

[Jon_Dahl]

In what game?

Certainly not in any Edition of D&D or Pathfinder, as far as I know.

And I can't believe that two castings of acid arrow would turn an ipoosible fight into an easy fight.

The undead in question didn't have a lot of HP or defences against magic. The group didn't have a lot of damage-dealing abilities. Some, yes, but two acid arrows would have made a significant contribution. In actual fact, a 4th-level sorcerer could have cast four acid arrows. With some luck, he could have soloed the undead.

I kid you not.

[genderlich]

Warforged Dragon Disciple Sorcerer. Supposed to be a battlemage-type character who mainly fought with his claws, but the Sorcerer's low BAB and the Warforged Charisma penalty made me pretty skeptical of its effectiveness. He didn't end up playing that character, though.

[Demidos]

My own character:

Druid 7

Used a scimitar and a (faulty) knowledge of AOO's to deal about 5 damage per round.

Occasionally used call lightning or ball of fire to deal damage.

Thats it.

....

Not my most impressive moment.

[Augmental]

knock/ open close/ are not that powerful Ive never played a game where i though wow i really wish i had that spell. for a sorcerer with their limited spells known to take it would be mechanically unwise.

The thing is that the sorcerer in question was worshipping the God of Locks and Keys.

[Tantaburs]

When you have gamemastered, have you ever felt a sting in your guts when you have seen the character the player is going to play next?

I certainly have. Here's a list:

1. One of my players created a Soulbow. It was a 6th-level character with BAB +3. Yes, it's true, I swear. He multiclassed into rogue and soulknife in a way that his BAB stayed minimal. He couldn't hit almost anything.

What is wrong with this? A soul bow requires 8 ranks in autohypnosis so can be entered at level 6 at the earliest. First level of Sould bow grants no BaB and a fifth level rogue has 3 bab. If he wanted to play a soulbow then this was the only way he would look at level 6


2. A player created an 8th-level sorcerer who worshiped the God of Locks and Keys, but didn't take any spells that are associated with opening, closing or locking. He didn't even have open/close cantrip.

This is bad roleplaying more then bad play. I don't know who the god of locks and keys is but unless i am playing a cleric i have never really cared about who my deity is


3. A fighter 5th-level/barbarian 1st-level that didn't have any ranged weapon at all. Not a single one. He died because of that.

This is probably very common and may even be due to good roleplaying. My barbarians never have ranged weapons in my eyes a barbarian cares about the honor of battle and attacking and killing from a range is a sign of dishonor and cowardice.


4. At one point the players knew that they were going to meet a BBEG, which was an undead. Everyone knew that it was going to be a very tough fight. In the beginning of the session, one of the PCs became a 4th-level sorcerer. As his 2nd-level spell, he chose Invisibility.
TPK.
Had he chosen any combat related spell, they would have won the fight easily.
Their is nothing wrong with taking invisibility as your first 2nd level spell. I personally always take scorching ray as my 2nd level sorcerer spell but that is because i play all my sorcerers as pyro's. If the sorcerer's choice of second level spell changes the outcome from TPK to win the fight then there is something greatly wrong with the party comp.


5. Last but not least:
The Blind Scout.
I had a 9th-level Scout in my game who had spot +4. Yes, it's true. He missed basically all of his Spot checks.
As has been said before just because you play a scout doesn't mean you need to be the scout. A lot of people chose a scout to be a hit and run ranged attacker. I personally love to play a scout as a mounted archer whenever I get the opportunity.

Most of these are not grimace inducing at all they are simply non optimized characters. A grimace inducing character to me is one that is clearly over optimized and cheesy. For Example in a game I was Dming about 2 months ago a player showed up on his first day with a Half Minotaur Goliath with 40 strength (which was overinflated due to his reading of Powerful build but still) wielding a gold spiked chain. He had at no pointed asked me if the half minotaur template was okay or if gold weapons were allowed.

When I DM (which is rare everyone in our playgroup can DM but also loves to play so we take turns dming campaigns every few months. We tend to get Campaign ADD) I generally don't care about the power level of individual players as long as they are all balanced comparative to on another. If everyone shows up with brokenly optimized characters I simply start optimizing enemies so that they are still killable but pose a threat.

[Yora]

Warforged Dragon Disciple Sorcerer. Supposed to be a battlemage-type character who mainly fought with his claws, but the Sorcerer's low BAB and the Warforged Charisma penalty made me pretty skeptical of its effectiveness. He didn't end up playing that character, though.
That's not the players fault. That's the fault of a terrible prestige class. It just doesn't do what it is supposed to do. Like a monk.

[The New Bruceski]

A true barbarian always has a ranged weapon handy; he throws other enemies at his enemies.

[North_Ranger]

Every paladin I've ever played. Apparently I just suck at playing one.

Also, a male gay half-elf rogue who spent his youth as a temple courtier, played by the group's only female character. An interesting concept, but unfortunately the player has not really brought that forth - except in trying to bed every male her character comes across. Including the PCs. Hopefully she'll get better at it with time.

[Paragon468]

Every paladin I've ever played. Apparently I just suck at playing one.

There's somebody I play with who has never played anything but a Dwarven Paladin. My experiences with him were so absurd, uncalled for, and downright stupid that I now hate Paladins with a passion. He got half the party killed while we were exploring some caves that happened to belong to Lizardfolk.

[LordBlades]

3. A fighter 5th-level/barbarian 1st-level that didn't have any ranged weapon at all. Not a single one. He died because of that.


Honestly, in higher powered games, many opponents are designed to not be a pushover for people putting their strengths against it. If you're putting a not-very-strong point of your character against the enemy it's 90% useless. In such a game, carrying a ranged weapon is mostly pointless unless you're a ranged specialist. You'll be hitting rarely and dealing crap damage.

[awa]

well hes a arcane caster not a divine caster so maybe hes not very devout, or maybe he believes that the character has no control over what spells he gets.

Its odd but certainly not cringe worthy.

and any bad guy that can only be defeated by one a sorcerer picking a certain spell he does not already have is a very poorly designed bad guy.

like others have said giving a barbarian a bow is such a last ditch emergency effort that their are very few situations where it will be overly helpful. many real world cultures hated ranged weapons so it is not impossible for it to have been a deliberate choice for role play purposes.

honestly if this is the worst you have encountered consider yourself lucky

[Slipperychicken]

This is probably very common and may even be due to good roleplaying. My barbarians never have ranged weapons in my eyes a barbarian cares about the honor of battle and attacking and killing from a range is a sign of dishonor and cowardice.


If he was roleplaying a death wish or massive stupidity, sure. The world is full of flying dangers, and failing to bring a ranged weapon along is much like failing to bring your calculator to a stats final because calculators are a sign of stupidity/cowardice, or failing to properly tune a musical instrument before a concert because true masters can compensate, or failing to put your body armor on because real men block bullets with their chest hair. It's getting your team killed and hampering your performance over some backwards conception of honor.


Also, I've played enough spellcasters and melee'rs to know that I'd rather fire a crossbow with low damage and hit chance than be completely useless.

[awa]

in general when flying monsters attack and stay in the air the impact the barbarian with a bow is going to make is completely trivial. Of course you could find your self alone hunted by a low level flying foe who is faster then you and in that situation having or not having a bow may be life and death but that's a fairly specific unusual situation now it could have come up natural but honestly feel like some one saw the barbarian had no bow and felt the need to punish them.

either way if you are cringing because the barbarian has no bow you have been very lucky.

I personally have had to deal with a player deciding out of the blue with no warning to hit an ally with confusion (while they were still in a dungeon they were not currently in combat) when they were already injured unbuffed and the confused ally was fairly close to them and capable of putting out a lot of damage very fast.

[ghost_warlock]

I've got a couple people in my 4e group who can't build characters to save their lives and they routinely bring cringe-worthy characters to the table. Normally, we're playing throwaway characters for D&D Encounters so I tend to just overlook it, but when we do a more serious campaign it's hard to do that.

A while back, one of them brought an infernal hexblade with a Con 10 and Cha 14. He said that he let the online builder choose his ability scores. After that, he just decided to have me build his characters for him. :smalltongue: I'm not perfect, but I can at least usually figure out what ability scores to focus on.

The other guy takes the cake, though. He's showed up to a game for 2nd-level characters with a single-spaced, 14-page backstory. His characters always have simply bizarre quirks - like a tiefling character obsessed with drow fashion, specifically "prom dresses." Do drow even have prom? :smallconfused: The player himself seems obsessed with minotaurs and plays them at nearly every opportunity.

In our Spelljammer game right now he's playing a minotaur cleric|warlord hybrid with a 14 Str and takes Str-based attack powers. He spent his first feat on light shield proficiency, despite being shown that both warlord and cleric can get shield proficiency for "free."

[Jay R]

This is probably very common and may even be due to good roleplaying. My barbarians never have ranged weapons in my eyes a barbarian cares about the honor of battle and attacking and killing from a range is a sign of dishonor and cowardice.

I'll bite. What barbarian tribe ever had such an anti-winning approach? Huns had bows. Viking had bows. Vandals, Goths, Picts had bows. African tribes had bows, spears, or blowpipes.

What barbarian tribe in the history of the world ever fought without ranged weapons if they had the technology?

[awa]

never said barbarian tribe. but Spartans felt bows were dishonorable and not weapons of war.

edit sorry i made a similar slightly different argument did not read it carefully enough.

keep in mind that the barbarians as typicaly depicted in d&d have virtually nothing to do with any of the "barbarians" you have mentioned

[Jon_Dahl]

and any bad guy that can only be defeated by one a sorcerer picking a certain spell he does not already have is a very poorly designed bad guy.



I have already explained this :smallfrown: Well, the thing was that they knew they were going face a massive battle, and they needed some damage-dealing abilities in order to survive. They had a decent chance for this since the sorcerer leveled up, but in the end they showed up to the fight with lots of fancy tricks and no real substance.

[Kish]

So it's not just that the sorcerer took Invisibility, but that the whole group was acting like doing damage was an optional extra.

This is bad roleplaying more then bad play.
...Pretty sure bad roleplaying in a roleplaying game is as pure a form of bad play as you're likely to meet.

[Archmage1]

13th level spellthief...
in a world with no craven, and no other casters
(dm did not want to manage other casters)

[Slipperychicken]

keep in mind that the barbarians as typicaly depicted in d&d have virtually nothing to do with any of the "barbarians" you have mentioned

They're the inspiration for D&D Barbarians. Mainly stories of "Berserkers" who get themselves intoxicated (from alcohol, mushrooms, morphine, or similar abusive substances) before fighting with fearsome abandon. Accounts mostly come from medieval Scandinavia.

Honestly, although many of the soldiers from the peoples mentioned would be best represented as Warriors, Barbarians very clearly originate from Scandinavia.

[Raimun]

If he was roleplaying a death wish or massive stupidity, sure. The world is full of flying dangers, and failing to bring a ranged weapon along is much like failing to bring your calculator to a stats final because calculators are a sign of stupidity/cowardice, or failing to properly tune a musical instrument before a concert because true masters can compensate, or failing to put your body armor on because real men block bullets with their chest hair. It's getting your team killed and hampering your performance over some backwards conception of honor.


You can do just fine without a ranged weapon, if you are a melee specialist. Switching to a bow and back wastes valuable actions and for what? Wasting an action to make a single D8 or D10 attack that does not use your Strength or benefit from your feats? That's if you manage to hit. Most people have only one magical weapon and warriors generally don't have enough Dex, so the attack bonus is rather low.

It's in fact more foolish and suicidal for a barbarian to ever rely on a bow. It's like bringing a calculator to a sword fight. :smallwink:

Some truly heroic RPG characters don't need a ranged weapon. That fact is as much an in-game reason as much as it is a meta-game reason.

[LordBlades]

You can do just fine without a ranged weapon, if you are a melee specialist. Switching to a bow and back wastes valuable actions and for what? Wasting an action to make a single D8 or D10 attack that does not use your Strength or benefit from your feats? That's if you manage to hit. Most people have only one magical weapon and warriors generally don't have enough Dex, so the attack bonus is rather low.

It's in fact more foolish and suicidal for a barbarian to ever rely on a bow. It's like bringing a calculator to a sword fight. :smallwink:

Doubly so if you have a character that is dedicated to killing stuff at range (like a caster or even an archer). If your low-ish to hit, low damage attack is meaningful, then the dedicated ranged attacker should obliterate the threat with ease, with or without your help. Alternatively, if the enemy is challenging for your dedicated ranged attacker to deal with, then odds are you're not even going to be able to hit it unless your roll (very close to) a nat 20.

D&D is a game that promotes specializing in a role, and rather than investing resources in being below average at something, it's usually better to invest said resources in avoiding to have to do that thing altogether. Don't invest in magical backup bows, invest in flying mounts:smallcool:

That being said, most of my characters carry a non-magical backup ranged weapon. Not because I believe in their usefulness (can't recall a single circumstance past very low level in the last 5 years or so when I was glad I had it) but mainly because there's no drawback in having one(just like all my casters have a spiked gauntlet to threaten squares regardless of proficiency). They cost a tiny fraction of a mid or higher level character's funds, weight is not an issue so why not? However, I wouldn't hold not having a ranged weapon as a flaw.

[Raimun]

That being said, most of my characters carry a non-magical backup ranged weapon. Not because I believe in their usefulness (can't recall a single circumstance past very low level in the last 5 years or so when I was glad I had it) but mainly because there's no drawback in having one(just like all my casters have a spiked gauntlet to threaten squares regardless of proficiency). They cost a tiny fraction of a mid or higher level character's funds, weight is not an issue so why not?

I do this if my character would do it.
For example, my wandering swordmaster elf didn't have a bow because he seeked to perfect his skill with a blade.
Then again, some other characters of mine reason kind of like you do.

[Jon_Dahl]

LordBlades seems like player whose character would have a long life in my game, which is filled with all kinds of situations, combat terrains, monsters and unexpected surprises. Same cannot be said for every poster in this thread.

[MukkTB]

I'm just not seeing cringe worthy here. I'm seeing slightly suboptimal.

If a fighter who is not a range specialist died because he didn't have a bow that begs questions about his his party and his play decisions. Did they have a ranged character? If they didn't how did they get themselves into a fight where only ranged damage would save them? What happened? A party without range weapons that gets in a fight with some ranged baddie they cannot reach and just sits there taking it is cringe inducing. A single guy who couldn't contribute much anyway not having a ranged weapon? Meh.

I could go on about the other instances but they amount to the same thing. I'm trying to remember any particularly cringe inducing choices made by anyone in my party on character creation. I'm drawing a blank. I just don't feel that slightly suboptimal choices or playing lower tier characters is cringe worthy. The most cringe worthy things I can come up with in our group are when weak low tier characters were brought into high tier groups.

[Doxkid]

As has been said before just because you play a scout doesn't mean you need to be the scout. A lot of people chose a scout to be a hit and run ranged attacker. I personally love to play a scout as a mounted archer whenever I get the opportunity.


80% sure Scout errata made Skirmish not work while mounted.

[Jay R]

never said barbarian tribe. but Spartans felt bows were dishonorable and not weapons of war.

edit sorry i made a similar slightly different argument did not read it carefully enough.

keep in mind that the barbarians as typicaly depicted in d&d have virtually nothing to do with any of the "barbarians" you have mentioned

Spartans?? Highly advanced, literate city-dwellers with maybe the most regimented army in the world? That's your idea of barbarians?

D&D Barbarians are clearly based on non-city-dwellers (unlike Spartans), and specifically on berserkers. Every group I named falls in the general category of "barbarian".

"Barbarian" (actually "barbaros") originally meant somebody who did not speak Greek. Then it meant somebody not part of Greek culture. Later, it meant somebody outside of the Roman empire. Then it meant somebody who was uncultured and uncivilized. Then somebody not connected to a city.

But by every single definition, Spartans are not barbarians. And by every single definition, Vandals, Vikings, Goths, Huns and African tribesmen are.

[Volthawk]

Hmm, decided to go have a look to see how much a melee guy could actually do if he carries around a backup ranged weapon (just comparing the kind of attack/damage I figure would fit a backup weapon/tactic vs flying monsters). Take from this what you will.

Take for example this fighter/barbarian. He has BAB +6, let's say a +1 composite longbow (+4 Str, all in all this would cost him 2,800gp, a little over a fifth of his WBL, which might be a bit much but eh) and let's say 14 Dex. That gives him +9 to attack (or +9/+4 full attack), and unless he puts feats or the like into it, he'll be doing 1d8+5 damage per hit.

Now, time to go MMI diving for some flying monsters of the relevant CR. Keep in mind that when it comes to hp/damage, I'm taking averages. I'm also trying to pick monsters for which staying at range is actually a part of their strategy, not creatures who happen to have a fly speed but'll just charge in and try to eat faces (eg elementals have high speeds and flyby attack, dragons have breath weapons, ranged attacks, etc.). Keep in mind that the CR system is pretty sketchy, though.

Air Elemental, Large: Actually CR 5, but let's give it 4HD to make it CR 6, putting the new ability point into Dex. That gives it an AC of 21, meaning our guy hits on a 12 (if full attacking, shot 2 hits on a 17), and on average deals 4.5 damage (due to the DR), and since our advanced elemental has 90hp, that means it takes out a twentieth of the elemental's HP per round.

Young Blue Dragon: Why not throw in a dragon? This guy has an AC of 21, so once again our guy hits on a 12 (second shot on a 17), but since the dragon has no DR yet, he'll deal the full 9.5 damage per hit, 9.3% of the dragon's health.

Manticore: Once again, CR 5 (it seems to be a good CR for flying monsters), so advancing it by giving it 3HD (since it's a magical beast), giving it an ability point to put into Dex. This gives it an AC of 18, meaning our guy hits on a 9 (14 for second shot), and since the manticore has no DR, it'll take 11% of it's health per hit.

Bralani: Yeah, it's a CG outsider, but still. Our guy is actually screwed against this guy when he's in whirlwind form (and thus flying) unless he packs cold iron arrows (or either gets a temporary damage boost or some way of making his attack evil-aligned), since the bralani has DR 10/cold iron or adamantine (meaning he only deals damage on a 6, 7 or 8 on the damage roll), but assuming he does have cold iron arrows (probably worth doing, since they only cost 2gp for 20), he's not in that bad a situation, hitting on an 11 (16 for shot 2), and taking out a fifth of the bralani's health per hit.

Pixie: Not quite CR-appropiate, but figured I may as well talk about them (since they might be thrown into a group to make an appropriate fight). Assuming our guy figures out where the pixie is, he'll hit on a 7 (12 for the other shot), but once again would have to use his supply of cold iron arrows, since otherwise he'll more often than not ping off the pixie's DR (again, he'll only deal damage on a roll of 6-8, and even then only 1-3 points), but with those cold iron arrows he'll pretty much kill it in one shot (a 3HD pixie survives the average damage, though, but a 1HD standard one can actually die from a normal arrow if our guy rolls max damage). Keep in mind, however, that even once the pixie's square is pinpointed, there's still that 50% miss chance (unless the guy has a way of seeing invisible stuff or the party caster casts glitterdust or something).

[awa]

I never said anything about barbarians that was a separate poster.
I said some real world groups did not make use of ranged weapons based on honor.

D&d barbarians have very little to do with huns or African tribes men

[White_Drake]

failing to put your body armor on because real men block bullets with their chest hair.

Have you ever read Eldariel's guide to cracking small men? Specifically the entry for the Constitution ability score.

[Acanous]

a few years ago, we had this player we called"Evil Ben". Every character of his, ever. He loved monster races, and enjoyed Savage Species. I think the greatest offender was the Barbarian/something/Blackguard anthromorphic badger he called "Slaughterbeast". It intentionally went around at low to negative HP so it could always be raging, and took non-lethal from most things.

I remember fighting it with an artificer, who just...flew, and pelted it with differently infused arrows 'til I found something that would hurt it.

[LordBlades]

Hmm, decided to go have a look to see how much a melee guy could actually do if he carries around a backup ranged weapon (just comparing the kind of attack/damage I figure would fit a backup weapon/tactic vs flying monsters). Take from this what you will.

Take for example this fighter/barbarian. He has BAB +6, let's say a +1 composite longbow (+4 Str, all in all this would cost him 2,800gp, a little over a fifth of his WBL, which might be a bit much but eh) and let's say 14 Dex. That gives him +9 to attack (or +9/+4 full attack), and unless he puts feats or the like into it, he'll be doing 1d8+5 damage per hit.



On the other hand, with 2800 gp, he can:

-get a pegasus or a hipogriff. 3000 gp each Now he can take the fight to the flying enemies. As downsides, they're large (So rather unwieldy in dungeons) and don't have that many HPs.
-get 4 potions(or 8 scrolls if he has a friendly caster willing to help) of Fly (so he can take the fight to the flying enemies) or Gaseous Form (so he can conveniently slip into the the ground or the like if he gets caught in the open by a flying enemy). 750 gp each
-get 11 potions of Invisibility (250 gp each). Now, if he gets caught in a situation where he's under fire by an invisible attacker, he can just drink one and slip away undetected.

[Arbane]

A paraplegic Kobold Sorcerer with a lot of Charm-type spells, who rode around on his ogre cohort's back.

I've seen worse ideas, but we had to fight a lot of undead, which he was rather ineffectual against. And his misuse of Charm on civilians offended the Cleric. He didn't last long.

[The New Bruceski]

A paraplegic Kobold Sorcerer with a lot of Charm-type spells, who rode around on his ogre cohort's back.

I've seen worse ideas, but we had to fight a lot of undead, which he was rather ineffectual against. And his misuse of Charm on civilians offended the Cleric. He didn't last long.

Taking a rock to the Dungeon of Elemental Paper could be a whole list on its own. I can't remember the title but one old webcomic had "I make a backstabbing rogue" "You enter the dungeon of undead elemental slime constructs."

[NotScaryBats]

Taking a rock to the Dungeon of Elemental Paper could be a whole list on its own.

This made me lol

[Jon_Dahl]

Just to clarify the reason why the fighter/barbarian needed something ranged:

In 3.5, we had a Mortal Combat-esque tournament. It was a 12-NPC and 4-PC tournament, where the pairs were randomly drawn.

The fighter/barbarian faced a minotaur in a very large arena. He had two rounds before the minotaur was even able to even touch him at all. One heavy crossbow bolt and maybe a javelin or an alchemist fire could have reduced its hp to half before the mêlée.

It didn't happen, as he simply waited for the minotaur to maul him. And it did.

[Raimun]

Yes, there are ways around needing a ranged weapon. Like playing a gish.

I had this one Cleric who was pretty much the best close combat guy in our group. He did carry a crossbow but I never needed it. It would have been more useful as a firewood than as a back up weapon. He had Travel Domain so he could Fly 3 times per day (Triad Spell) and teleport too. Reaching the enemy was never a problem.

I also packed a few Sound Lances and I think we can all agree that this is clearly a superior choice over a Cleric firing crossbow. BoED was also in use, so I always had the option to cast Hammer of Righteousness in place of a 3rd level spell, if the situation would have been dire enough. It never was, though. Normal means were always enough.

Edit: Not to mention Celestial Aspect. Deva Wings. \,,/

Back-up ranged weapon is really useful only at the lower levels.

Also, I can't stress enough the importance of a varied group. Instead of a lame back-up ranged weapon, you rely on the brilliant back-up ranged guy in your group. :smallsmile:

[BlackShip]

Just to clarify the reason why the fighter/barbarian needed something ranged:

In 3.5, we had a Mortal Combat-esque tournament. It was a 12-NPC and 4-PC tournament, where the pairs were randomly drawn.

The fighter/barbarian faced a minotaur in a very large arena. He had two rounds before the minotaur was even able to even touch him at all. One heavy crossbow bolt and maybe a javelin or an alchemist fire could have reduced its hp to half before the mêlée.

It didn't happen, as he simply waited for the minotaur to maul him. And it did.
I see this situation more like a bad roleplay. He didn't have any ranged weapons but he also had no idea how to made them redundant. Throw stones, or sand into enemies eyes. Make evasive manouvers to deny charge. Learn to use a spear - the eldest and most universal weapon know to humanity. Or if it was gladiatorial arena ask for net. In Rome there was a special type of gladiators called retiarii, they were adept in immobilising foes.

[hymer]

spear - the eldest and most universal weapon know to humanity.
Aside from things like courage and fists:

the hurled or handheld rock (by the good folks at Tectonics Inc)
the wooden club or staff (easier on the knuckles)
the dagger (will do in a pinch)


All come before the spear.
What exactly do you mean by a 'universal weapon' anyway?

Edit: I don't want to even mention pointed sticks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RKTSwAVaoU).

[BlackShip]

point taken - the first spear was made when first staff was broken.:smallbiggrin:
And by universal I meant that you can make a whole array of nasty strikes: use it from horseback, use it to deny enemy use of his shield, throw it, trip with it, or if one have "I stand my ground" attitude he have his best hopes in reciving charge whith spear.
Edit: or simply make a dance of death:-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxadxFjx_2Q

[hymer]

Very well. Carry on with the barbarian bashing, then.

[Hopeless]

either way if you are cringing because the barbarian has no bow you have been very lucky.

Why do I have the sudden vision of a barbarian firing a halfling with his bow?:smallwink:

With the halfling whistling for his velociraptor to come pick him up!

Why yes I have heard of Eberron!

[themocaw]

D&D 3.5.

"Cale is a Fighter 1, Cleric 1, Sorcerer 1, Barbarian 1, Bard 1, Ranger 1."

-----
"4d6 Drop One six times gets me. . . a 10, an 8, a 6, a 6, a 9, and a 4."

". . . do you want to reroll?"

"Nah, I'll let it ride."

-----
Alternity

"So what languages do your characters speak again?"

"Russian and Swedish."

"English."

"German."

". . . we have a problem."

[Jon_Dahl]

D&D 3.5.

Alternity

"So what languages do your characters speak again?"

"Russian and Swedish."

"English."

"German."

". . . we have a problem."

Oh Lord, now THAT is just awful :smalleek:

[ko_sct]

Alternity

"So what languages do your characters speak again?"

"Russian and Swedish."

"English."

"German."

". . . we have a problem."

Made me laught, new rule; you may only communicate with your party members by making signs !

[Raimun]

I haven't really seen completely stupid or useless characters. Most people seem to be able to build competent characters... at least on paper. It's about how you use what you have.

For example, there was this one time enemies had pistols (single shot) and we advanced behind cover to meet them... except this one guy who charged at them alone... at the center of their "formation". I still can't believe his character dropped only unconscious after all 10 or so enemies shot him.

[themocaw]

Made me laught, new rule; you may only communicate with your party members by making signs !

We thought it would work because the NPC expedition members all spoke enough languages that they could translate for us. So of course they all died immediately. The rest of the game was spent playing a lot of charades.

[smashbro]

One of my characters I played for only a few lessons might qualify, though his quirk was pretty useful.

"Ok, you hear two creatures talking in..."
"What are they saying?"
"What languages do you know?"
"Yes. ... I know all of them, what are they saying."



There is one player who always goes for something ridiculous. He's played a fey barbarian for a one shot, and in a campaign, a commoner. Up to level 14. At that point, I had him be promoted to a Duke, which I made a class with pretty good stats to balance out the levels of commoner.

Although, this didn't hold him back that much compared to the rest of the party, he had fun roleplaying, and everyone else covered situations he couldn't help much in.

[Greenish]

80% sure Scout errata made Skirmish not work while mounted.It did, but I wouldn't blame a DM for ignoring it.

[Paragon468]

There is one player who always goes for something ridiculous. He's played a fey barbarian for a one shot, and in a campaign, a commoner. Up to level 14. At that point, I had him be promoted to a Duke, which I made a class with pretty good stats to balance out the levels of commoner.

Hah! I play with somebody just like that! He's always asking the DM to homebrew some sort of lord or whatever. He has this fantasy of buying all the land in the kingdom and renting it out, or opening a shop... once when I was DMing he even tried opening a Wizard academy :smallbiggrin:

[smashbro]

Hah! I play with somebody just like that! He's always asking the DM to homebrew some sort of lord or whatever. He has this fantasy of buying all the land in the kingdom and renting it out, or opening a shop... once when I was DMing he even tried opening a Wizard academy :smallbiggrin:

Nice. My players have never gotten that far (though you just gave me an idea for a campaign) in the sense of owning land. However, in my campaign the group essentially split into rival mafia families (we had a 7 person group, and me as the DM, it split 4-3, and my character probably would have joined the 3). Would have liked to see how that turned out and follow that story, but it was never meant to be.

[Sneaky Weasel]

Once I decided to DM an epic campaign, since none of my players had ever played at Epic level before. The starting ECL was in the upper 20s, and I encouraged monstrous character types. One of the players was a Death Slaad, one was a human gish, and one...

Well, I think his reasoning was that, if a dragon and a half-dragon human had a child, it would be a double half dragon. I can sort of see that. But the problem is...what if the double half dragon also has a child with a regular dragon?

The end result: A half red dragon half gold dragon half...everything dragon. He applied the half dragon template once for EVERY type of true dragon presented in the Draconomicon. Oh, and his base race was a half-ogre. He had a strength of over 100, 3HD, and a ton of useless breath weapons. Oh, and he had absolutely no backstory to justify this monstrosity. Grimace worthy? I think so.

In a different campaign, the same player was a gnome druid who prepared Tree Shape on EVERY SINGLE spell slot of second level or higher, using metamagic on the higher ones. At the beginning of every combat, he would turn into a tree and remain so until the other players won. Admittedly, he was actively trolling us with this character, and it ran a thin line between hilarious and horribly annoying.

[Philistine]

Just to clarify the reason why the fighter/barbarian needed something ranged:

In 3.5, we had a Mortal Combat-esque tournament. It was a 12-NPC and 4-PC tournament, where the pairs were randomly drawn.

The fighter/barbarian faced a minotaur in a very large arena. He had two rounds before the minotaur was even able to even touch him at all. One heavy crossbow bolt and maybe a javelin or an alchemist fire could have reduced its hp to half before the mêlée.

It didn't happen, as he simply waited for the minotaur to maul him. And it did.

Yeeaah... No. Even assuming both ranged attacks hit, which is already very generous, 1d10 and 1d6 combine for a piddly 9 damage on average. Even assuming a very low baseline of melee optimization (two-handed weapon, Power Attack, and high STR) for the Barb1/Ftr5, the PC should have been able to take on a standard (CR4) minotaur in a stand-up fight: his AB, AC, damage, and HP should all be better than the monster's. Add basic Charger flavoring (Pounce, Whirling Frenzy, Leap Attack, and Shock Trooper) - because let's face it, 1v1 arena duels are an excellent environment for tricks that sacrifice defense to front-load a ton of offense - and it shouldn't even have been a fight. More like an execution. Ready an action to Charge when the minotaur comes into range (which it will: it has an INT of 7 and Charging is its preferred tactic as well), and splat 'em. No ranged weapon required.

So, no. Whatever doomed this PC, it wasn't lack of a ranged weapon. That doesn't even make sense.

[Jon_Dahl]

Yeeaah... No. Even assuming both ranged attacks hit, which is already very generous, 1d10 and 1d6 combine for a piddly 9 damage on average. Even assuming a very low baseline of melee optimization (two-handed weapon, Power Attack, and high STR) for the Barb1/Ftr5, the PC should have been able to take on a standard (CR4) minotaur in a stand-up fight: his AB, AC, damage, and HP should all be better than the monster's. Add basic Charger flavoring (Pounce, Whirling Frenzy, Leap Attack, and Shock Trooper) - because let's face it, 1v1 arena duels are an excellent environment for tricks that sacrifice defense to front-load a ton of offense - and it shouldn't even have been a fight. More like an execution. Ready an action to Charge when the minotaur comes into range (which it will: it has an INT of 7 and Charging is its preferred tactic as well), and splat 'em. No ranged weapon required.

So, no. Whatever doomed this PC, it wasn't lack of a ranged weapon. That doesn't even make sense.

I don't allow non-core stuff, but other than that you have a point there.

[TuggyNE]

Yeeaah... No. Even assuming both ranged attacks hit, which is already very generous, 1d10 and 1d6 combine for a piddly 9 damage on average. Even assuming a very low baseline of melee optimization (two-handed weapon, Power Attack, and high STR) for the Barb1/Ftr5, the PC should have been able to take on a standard (CR4) minotaur in a stand-up fight: his AB, AC, damage, and HP should all be better than the monster's. Add basic Charger flavoring (Pounce, Whirling Frenzy, Leap Attack, and Shock Trooper) - because let's face it, 1v1 arena duels are an excellent environment for tricks that sacrifice defense to front-load a ton of offense - and it shouldn't even have been a fight. More like an execution. Ready an action to Charge when the minotaur comes into range (which it will: it has an INT of 7 and Charging is its preferred tactic as well), and splat 'em.

Well, other than the fact that you can't ready a charge, this would work well.

[The Glyphstone]

Well, other than the fact that you can't ready a charge, this would work well.

You can ready a Partial Charge, but you can only make a partial charge in the first place when you're restricted from making a normal charge, such as being Slowed.

[TuggyNE]

You can ready a Partial Charge, but you can only make a partial charge in the first place when you're restricted from making a normal charge, such as being Slowed.

Or a surprise round, but getting a surprise round in an arena situation seems ... a bit implausible.

[willpell]

I didn't cringe when someone wanted to play a Cerebremancer (Wizard/Erudite - not StP thank god), but I did nitpick him to death because I knew how much of a gamebreaking risk the component classes are, even when theurged (perhaps especially so...the decision of exactly how fair it is to trade one 20-level spell progression for two 15-level ones remains unclear to me).

What does make me cringe, every single time and I know that this is kinda me being a bad DM, is when players want to buy lots of mundane equipment to Mcguyver their way out of various problems with...not even Mcguyver really, just using objects in obvious ways that the rules don't describe, or do describe but I have to hunt through the books for an hour to figure out how. I can deal with spells, because I read them and they say what they do, but there isn't a section where I can look up "Sewing needle" and find the rules for Craft: Tailoring or Profession: Seamstress checks with all the relevant modifiers for quality of thread, size of garment and so forth. It just seriously throws me off balance every time the player tries to expand their horizons in fiddly little ways that IMO aren't worth remotely the cognitive load required to figure out what they do. I'd rather just let them have a megablast and try to solve all their problems with that, so my only decision in planning encounters is whether to make the enemy semi-immune to the megablast or just have them try to win initiative or have too many mooks to blow them all up...nice solvable problems instead of huge but largely irrelevant headaches. Handwaving, improvising, or creating precedents which I later ignore...these are not tools I can manage to fit into my peculiarly-shaped arsenal.


Rules Lawyers have their uses. Sometimes it is good to know the precedent exactly so one can decide whether to break it or not, which is why I respect Curmudgeon, even though I would never play with them.
Bad rules lawyers though, wow, no use for them at all.
Toss them into the darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.:smallamused:

This, 100%.

[Darius Kane]

Once a player wanted to play a Druid. With dumped Wisdom (10 after applying a racial bonus) and Charisma as a primary stat. Without the homebrew Fey Blood feat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10546562&postcount=11), which I suggested to him earlier. The only thing that saved him from me laughing him out was that it was a solo game and he made Fluttershy (with wings and her personality and stuff).
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/013/a/8/um____i__m_fluttershy_by_kero444-d4m7gwh.gif

[LordBlades]

I didn't cringe when someone wanted to play a Cerebremancer (Wizard/Erudite - not StP thank god), but I did nitpick him to death because I knew how much of a gamebreaking risk the component classes are, even when theurged (perhaps especially so...the decision of exactly how fair it is to trade one 20-level spell progression for two 15-level ones remains unclear to me).



Actually, simple full casting class 3/2nd full casting class 3 theurge entry is rather weak. You're 2 spell levels behind half of the time (and 1 spell level the other half), and with the exponential scaling of spells, having access to 2 different spell list just doesn't compensate(especially since you can cast only one spell per round). When a full wizard is rocking Polymorph and Solid Fog, a theurge has 2nd level spells.

Early entry theurges (like full casting class 1/2nd full casting class 2) are a bit stronger (one class is 1 spell level behind, other is 1 spell level behind half of the time, and even the other half). Still, probably not as strong as a single classed caster due to being incredibly feat starved (most early entry tricks need quite a few).

[Jerthanis]

A player once came to me with a bizarre bloblike purple monster who loved milkshakes...

[hiryuu]

I don't usually worry about the optimization parts. Our entire group just takes what's fun and fits the characters - this leads to particularly organic builds that would probably set this board on edge.

However, even we have seen our fair share.

Like that one guy with Toughness and Spell Focus (Conjuration). Both.

Or the guy who made the Warblade with 8 Int.

Ah, the lady who showed up to the Neutral/Good party with the Chaotic Evil halfling with a 6 Wisdom and no ranks in Bluff, Disguise, or Sense Motive.

Most of our group's cringe-worthy stuff comes from backstory or not paying attention to the rest of the group.

Like the guy who tried to pull a Chosen of Mystra build in Eberron. Not just using the mechanics, but using all the flavor, too. He wasn't "zapped" to Eberron. After spending two weeks reading the core book, he was convinced that all the FR gods existed in Eberron.

We started forcing new characters to take the Mary Sue test just to get them into the ball park at one point, so they're at least thinking about things.

Had a player want to bring a cyberpunk hacker who didn't believe in magic into a Golden Age supers game set in the 30s about a mystic cabal. Again, he didn't want the character "zapped" into the setting, he wanted it to have grown up there.


Then, of course, there are the awesome ones.

"You said you made a changeling artificer, but your character portrait is just a promotional poster for Kaizoku Sentai Gokaiger (http://img.affenheimtheater.de/cover_br/cover_kaizoku_sentai_gokaiger_01_jp.jpg)."
"I'm aware."
"Alright, LET'S GO WITH IT."

Like the guy who spent all his character wealth on his left arm, stuffed it with everything that could fit into its capacity, and took Mysterious Cyberware six times with varying costs and labeled them with "ARM PLOX"

[White_Drake]

Ah, the lady who showed up to the Neutral/Good party with the Chaotic Evil halfling with a 6 Wisdom and no ranks in Bluff, Disguise, or Sense Motive.

Was it a Ranger?

[BRC]

There is one player who occasionally plays with us. He's a very good roleplayer, and he's got a good grasp of the rules.

However, he has a running habit of building characters who are rather...lacking in the essentials of the class.

One time he built a Duskblade who hadn't prepared Shocking Grasp, or any other damage-dealing melee touch spells.
Another time we were playing a 1920's campaign. He had decided to play a DM homebrew called the Detective.

As one might imagine, a Detective's skillset was largely centered on Detecting things, investigation, stuff like that.
He decided to make his detective a Warforged. He also rolled really bad (But just above the Free Reroll threshold) on his stats.
Long story short, he had ranks in neither Search, nor Gather Information. There were several sessions where he was convinced that the spell Instant Search allowed him to Search without the Search skill.

[hiryuu]

Was it a Ranger?

It was, actually. She was level 2 and wanted to have a panther animal companion.

[Lord_Gareth]

I have/had a player who plays Edward Elric.

Yes, that one.

As EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER, IN EVERY SINGLE CAMPAIGN, REGARDLESS OF THE SYSTEM.

[Das Platyvark]

My DM has not so much hatred for our group as a whole as he's grown to accept the fact that we tend to bring chaos and lack of plot wherever we go. My last character was a Psion who I played as something between Paul Atreides and The Joker, and who's only skills where Craft:Alchemy and a ludicrous amount of Diplomacy. Myself and the Druid, who'd done his best to build Odin, proceeded to try and take over the town we were in, using chlorine gas and converting people to our invented religion via Diplomacy. The other player was against this, but rather than trying to get the campaign back on track, he was trying to rouse the town's militia against us. It didn't end well.

[genderlich]

One of my characters I played for only a few lessons might qualify, though his quirk was pretty useful.

"Ok, you hear two creatures talking in..."
"What are they saying?"
"What languages do you know?"
"Yes. ... I know all of them, what are they saying."


Heh... my Wizard I'm playing now has very high Intelligence and many ranks in Linguistics, so right now he knows. 16 languages. At level 6. And yet the DM has found many ways to use the few languages I don't know...

[Raimun]

Heh... my Wizard I'm playing now has very high Intelligence and many ranks in Linguistics, so right now he knows. 16 languages. At level 6. And yet the DM has found many ways to use the few languages I don't know...

I guess this kind of thing would be real trolling if you played a protocol droid in a star wars RPG.

[Slipperychicken]

Heh... my Wizard I'm playing now has very high Intelligence and many ranks in Linguistics, so right now he knows. 16 languages. At level 6. And yet the DM has found many ways to use the few languages I don't know...

Just pack a scroll of Tongues if you don't feel like prepping it.

[Jacob.Tyr]

I don't get it, did a player make Grimace as a cohort?
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9yvijwo8k1rfleoco1_400.gif
Removed unnecessary quote that I wound up with in here.

[Hyena]

Well, I wasn't DMing this one, but there was that bipolar pregnant half-dragon elf bard with the choir of invisible ghosts, playing blues.
I'm not making this up. That player tends to create characters like this.

[Chilingsworth]

Well, I wasn't DMing this one, but there was that bipolar pregnant half-dragon elf bard with the choire of invisible ghosts, playing blues.
I'm not making this up. That player tends to create characters like this.

First, that actually sounds strangely awesome.

Second, since your signature specifically asks for corrections, it's choir. The e isn't needed. :smallwink:

[Hyena]

It suddenly sounds a lot less awesome, when you know that character is rather violent and is made pregnant for the simple goal of guilt tripping other players into not killing her. Specifically, me.

[Chilingsworth]

It suddenly sounds a lot less awesome, when you know that character is rather violent and is made pregnant for the simple goal of guilt tripping other players into not killing her. Specifically, me.

Ok, yeah... that's not so awesome.

(Still slightly impressive douchebaggery, though.)

Edit: Also, if she's a murderer, and the campaign takes place somewhere with the rule of law, you could get her arrested and convicted for her murders. The authorities will then probably let her give birth, then execute her and give the kid to a good-aligned church or something.

[Hyena]

By the way, other characters of this player I've seen:
1) Chaotic good dwarf fist-fighter with hatred for religion and authority... in the campaign about Alliance military. Of course, I'm not a saint too, in this campaign I was playing a necromancer. Incredibly patriotic one, though.
2) Toreador with a split personality. When not posessed by the Beast, he was just a rude and self-centered megalomaniac. When he was, he killed men with his bare hands and then tatooed their organs.
3) Oh, and there was this half-orc cleric of Sune. I don't want to speak about that.

[Yora]

3) Oh, and there was this half-orc cleric of Sune. I don't want to speak about that.
Now that does look awesome on the sheet.

[hymer]

The bed sheet or the character sheet?

[RedWarlock]

The bed sheet or the character sheet?

With Sune, you could go either way...

*refrains from making the obvious joke...*

[Longstrider]

Squid in a bucket for an animal companion!

This was probably my fault since I said there'd be opportunity for water-based campaigning.

[RedWarlock]

Hey, that sea witch PrC in Stormwrack had an octopus familiar wrapped around his arm, which I thought was a great way of handling it. Familiars, by design, being a little more sturdy than regular animals.

[Kobold Esq]

I completely misunderstood this thread title.

My most negative reactions to character sheets players bring usually go in the opposite direction.

"Wait, you want to start with how many nightsticks?"

"You want to use how many flaws?"

"Remind me again why you think it is totally reasonable to start adventuring at level 1 as a venerable gnome druid?"

[Mystic Muse]

My brother decided to play an Orc bard in Pathfinder.

He had 14 Charisma, 22 Strength, and 11 Constitution.

I think you can see why he died this recent session (Being poisoned and hit with the boulder from Indiana Jones and the Raider of the Lost Ark certainly didn't help...)

[Slipperychicken]

"Wait, you want to start with how many nightsticks?"

"You want to use how many flaws?"

"Remind me again why you think it is totally reasonable to start adventuring at level 1 as a venerable gnome druid?"

"I was kidding when I said I expected 50 DPR at level 5" :smalltongue:

[the_david]

Pathfinder 15 point buy, she wanted to play a ranger with a charisma of 14 and I've been waiting 3 months for the next session.

[DaedalusMkV]

Half-Orc Barbarian with an ingrained, deep hatred of magic-users and unnatural creatures. In a party of seven, of whom four used magic or were innately unnatural. Oh, but it gets better. His Con score? 8. Why? So that he could get his Int up to 14. In a campaign where your HP at level 1 used your Con score instead of your Con mod. Why? To take Craft: Goggles. Backstory? None to speak of. He died in his first session of existing, because he tried to be a frontline, Raging combatant with an AC of 9 and 25 HP at level 3, when the party's next weakest character had an AC of 19 and 42 HP and had no intention of hitting melee.

Also, a Halfling Rogue described as "Like a Kender. From Dragonlance!", in a Dark Sun campaign. Every single person at the table facepalmed at that one.

[Sith_Happens]

Also, a Halfling Rogue described as "Like a Kender. From Dragonlance!", in a Dark Sun campaign.

Read: "The one we eat first. And not even necessarily because we're starving."

[Jay R]

Edit: Also, if she's a murderer, and the campaign takes place somewhere with the rule of law, you could get her arrested and convicted for her murders. The authorities will then probably let her give birth, then execute her and give the kid to a good-aligned church or something.

Historically, it could even save her life (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleading_the_belly). Many such women had their sentences commuted or even received pardons.

[Hyena]

Also, if she's a murderer, and the campaign takes place somewhere with the rule of law, you could get her arrested and convicted for her murders. The authorities will then probably let her give birth, then execute her and give the kid to a good-aligned church or something.

Historically, it could even save her life. Many such women had their sentences commuted or even received pardons.
1) The campaign took place in some weird wilderness that was ruled by barbarian warlords and creepy guy with the black armor and flail of evil, so that was not an option.
2) Thankfully, we did not actually play with this character, because she... it was vetoed by DM. When this player came up with another another strange and strongly asocial concept, we finally had enough and decided we would rather play without him.