DracoDei
2013-01-03, 11:08 PM
Slithering Liver
Open Spoiler below for main stat block for Fine, Diminutive, and Tiny Slithering Livers.
{table="head"]~| Slithering Liver, Fine | Slithering Liver, Diminutive | Slithering Liver, Tiny
Size and Type |
Fine Undead [Organ Undead] |
Diminutive Undead [Organ Undead] |
Tiny Undead [Organ Undead] | Size and Type
Hit Dice |
1/8d12 (1 hp)* |
1/4d12 (1 hp)** |
1/2d12 (3 hp) | Hit Dice
Speed |
10 ft |
10 ft |
15 ft
Initiative |
+4 |
+3 |
+2 | Initiative
AC |22 (+8 size, +4 Dex); touch 22; flat-footed 18|17 (+4 size, +3 Dex); touch 17; flat-footed 14|14 (+2 size, +2 Dex); touch 14; flat-footed 12| AC
BAB |
+0 |
+0 |
+0 | Base Attack Bonus
Grapple |
-21 |
-16 |
-10 | Grapple
Attack |
Toxic Touch +12 Melee Touch |
Toxic Touch +7 Melee Touch |
Toxic Touch +4 Melee Touch | Attacks
Space/Reach |
1/2 ft./0 ft. |
1 ft./0 ft. |
2 1/2 ft./0 ft. | Space/Reach
Special Attacks |
Toxic Touch |
Toxic Touch |
Toxic Touch | Special Abilities
Special Qualities|Dark Vision 60 ft., Undead Traits, Fast Healing 1/4*, Neutralize the Holy Bane, Recovery|Dark Vision 60 ft., Undead Traits, Fast Healing 1/3**, Neutralize the Holy Bane|Dark Vision 60 ft., Undead Traits, Fast Healing 1/2, Neutralize the Holy Bane| Special Qualities
Saves |
Fort +2 Ref +4 Will +2 |
Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +2 |
Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +2 |
Abilities |
Str 1, Dex 18, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 1|
Str 2, Dex 16, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 1 |
Str 6, Dex 14, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 1 |
Skills |
~ |
~ |
~ | Skills
Feats |
Weapon Finesse(B), Great Fortitude(B)*** |
Weapon Finesse(B), Great Fortitude(B)*** |
Weapon Finesse(B), Great Fortitude(B)*** | Feats
Environment |
Any |
Any |
Any |
Organization |
Any |
Any |
Any |
Challenge Rating |
1/3 |
1/2 |
1 |
Treasure |
None |
None |
None |
Alignment |
Always Neutral Evil |
Always Neutral Evil |
Always Neutral Evil | Alignment
Advancement |
~ |
~ |
~ |
Level Adjustment |
~ |
~ |
~ |[/table]
* Due to their "Recovery" ability, Fine Slithering Livers reduced to exactly 0 hitpoints by damage other than acid or fire are not destroyed unless further damaged, but may take no actions until they are recovered to 1 hitpoint.
** GMs are advised to give approximately seven twelfths (or 2/3rds for simplicity) of all diminutive slithering livers in a group 1 hitpoint, one third of them 2 hitpoints, and the remainder 3 hitpoints, rather than using the average for all of them. This will allow the fast healing to actually be a factor sometimes. Alternatively, consider applying the "Recovery" ability to them.
*** Technically they also get the Poison Resistance feat as a bonus feat. This is omitted from the table because unless Libris Mortis or another rules set for poisons that work against the undead are in play it will almost never come up.
Open Spoiler below for main stat block for Small, Medium, and Large Slithering Livers.
{table="head"]~| Slithering Liver, Small | Slithering Liver, Medium | Slithering Liver, Large
Size and Type |
Small Undead [Organ Undead] |
Medium Undead [Organ Undead] |
Large Undead [Organ Undead] | Size and Type
Hit Dice |
1d12 (6 hp) |
2d12 (13 hp) |
4d12 (26 hp) | Hit-Dice (Hitpoints)
Speed |
15 ft |
20 ft |
20 ft | Speed
Initiative |
-3 |
-4 |
-5 | Initiative
AC |12 (+1 Dex, +1 size); touch 12; flat-footed 11|11(+1 Natural); touch 10; flat-footed 11|11 (-1 size, +2 Natural); touch 9; flat-footed 11|
BAB |
+0 |
+1 |
+2 | Base Attack Bonus
Grapple |
-4 |
+2 |
+10 | Grapple
Attack |
Toxic Touch +2 Melee Touch |
Toxic Touch +2 Melee Touch |
Toxic Touch +5 Melee Touch | Attack
Space/Reach |
5 ft./5 ft. |
5 ft./5 ft. |
10 ft/5 ft. | Space/Reach
Special Attacks |
Toxic Touch |
Toxic Touch |
Toxic Touch | Special Attacks
Special Qualities|Dark Vision 60 ft., Undead Traits, Fast Healing 1, Neutralize the Holy Bane|Dark Vision 60 ft., Undead Traits, Fast Healing 2, Neutralize the Holy Bane|Dark Vision 60 ft., Undead Traits, Fast Healing 4, Neutralize the Holy Bane| Special Qualities
Saves |
Fort +2, Ref +1, Will +2|
Fort +2, Ref +0, Will +3|
Fort +3, Ref +1, Will +4 | Saves
Abilities |
Str 10, Dex 12, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 1 |
Str 12, Dex 10, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 1|
STR 18, Dex 10, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 1| Abilities
Skills |
~ |
~ |
~ | Skills
Feats |
Weapon Finesse(B), Great Fortitude(B)*** |
Great Fortitude(B)*** |
Great Fortitude(B)*** | Feats
Environment |
Any |
Any |
Any |
Organization |
Any |
Any |
Any |
Challenge Rating |
2 |
3 |
5 | Challenge Rating
Treasure |
None |
None |
None |
Alignment |
Always Neutral Evil|
Always Neutral Evil|
Always Neutral Evil |
Advancement | ~ |
3 HD (Medium) |
5-7 HD (Large) |
Level Adjustment |
~ |
~ |
~ |[/table]
*** Technically they also get the Poison Resistance feat as a bonus feat. This is omitted from the table because unless Libris Mortis or another rules set for poisons that work against the undead are in play it will almost never come up.
Open Spoiler below for main stat block for Huge and Gargantuan Slithering Livers.
{table="head"]~| Slithering Liver, Huge | Slithering Liver, Gargantuan
Size and Type |
Huge Undead |
Gargantuan Undead | Size and Type
Hit Dice |
8d12 (52 hp) |
16d12 (104 hp) | Hit-Dice (Hitpoints)
Speed |
30 ft |
30 ft | Speed
Initiative |
-3 |
-4 | Initiative
AC |12 (-2 size, +4 Natural); touch 8; flat-footed 12|14(-4 size, +8 Natural); touch 6; flat-footed 14 | AC
BAB |
+4 |
+8 |
+8 | Base Attack Bonus
Grapple |
+19 |
+30 | Grapple
Attack |
Toxic Touch +9 Melee Touch|
Toxic Touch +14 Melee Touch| Attack
Space/Reach |
15 ft./10 ft. |
20 ft./15 ft. | Space/Reach
Special Attacks |
Toxic Touch |
Toxic Touch |
Toxic Touch | Special Attacks
Special Qualities|Dark Vision 60 ft., Undead Traits, Fast Healing 8, Neutralize the Holy Bane|Dark Vision 60 ft., Undead Traits, Fast Healing 16, Neutralize the Holy Bane| Special Qualities
Saves |
Fort +4, Ref +2, Will +6 |
Fort +7, Ref +5, Will +1 | Saves
Abilities |
Str 24, Dex 10, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 1 |
Str 30, Dex 10, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 1| Abilities
Skills |
~ |
~ | Skills
Feats |
Great Fortitude(B)*** |
Great Fortitude(B)*** |
Great Fortitude(B)*** | Feats
Environment |
Any |
Any |
Any |
Organization |
Any |
Any |Organization
Challenge Rating |
10 |
12 | Challenge Rating
Treasure |
None |
None |
None |
Alignment |
Always Neutral Evil |
Always Neutral Evil |
Always Neutral Evil |
Advancement |
9-15 HD (Small) |
17+ HD (Medium) | Advancement
Level Adjustment|
~ |
~ | LA[/table]
*** Technically they also get the Poison Resistance feat as a bonus feat. This is omitted from the table because unless Libris Mortis or another rules set for poisons that work against the undead are in play it will almost never come up.
Toxic Touch (Su):
Slithering livers have a poisonous touch that deals initial and secondary damage to Constitution. Gargantuan Slithering Livers also deal constitution drain on a failed save(This does not grant them hitpoints). The save DC varies by the slithering liver’s size, as shown on the table below. The save DCs are Constitution-based. Since slithering livers have no constitution score, this is simply 10 + 1/2 HD.
{table="head"]Size|Primary and Secondary Damage (DC)|Size of Source Creature
Fine |
1d4 (10) |
Tiny
Diminutive|
1d6 (10) |
Small
Tiny |
1d8 (10) |
Medium
Small |
1d10 (10) |
Large
Medium |
2d6 (11) |
Huge
Large |
2d8 (12*) |
Gargantuan
Huge |
2d10 (14*) |
Colossal
Gargantuan |
3d6 Damage + 1d2 Drain** (18*) |
Colossal+
[/table]
* This DC is for a slithering liver of the normal hitdice for the size. Slithering livers with additional hitdice may produce a higher DC.
** This drain does not grant the slithering liver hitpoints.
Neutralize the Holy Bane (Su):
In living creatures, the liver reacts poisons to neutralize them. What would be instantly fatal in the blood entering the brain is simple for the liver. The corrupted nature of slithering livers turns this ability against holy water, protecting other undead at the cost of itself.
Exposed holy water within 5' of a slithering liver is strongly drawn to it. Slithering livers are technically resistant to this damage, but because not so much as a drop is wasted, they take as much damage as the holy water that is attracted would have normally inflicted upon striking an undead.
SIMPLE VERSION:
Holy water vials aimed at a slithering liver of medium or smaller size from within 1 range increment automatically hit. From further out such a slithering liver instead has a touch AC of 5 regardless of size, dexterity, or deflection/insight/profane(or technically sacred) bonuses. Bonuses from cover still apply to this AC. Miss chances for concealment do not apply.
For each size category above medium the slithering liver is automatically struck if aimed at from 1 range increment further out.
A holy water vial not aimed at a slithering liver that strikes a square (not a target that can be affected by it, but just a square) within 5 feet of a slithering liver is treated as having struck that slithering liver directly. If there are multiple slithering livers within range, pick one in the square where the vial landed select one randomly. If there is none in that square, select one within 5 feet randomly.
A holy water vial that strikes a slithering liver directly (or treated as such due to the previous paragraph) deals no damage to any other target, but deals 2d4+9 damage to the slithering liver. Note that for many of them (including average ones of small or smaller size) this is enough that the damage need not be rolled.
DRACO DEI'S "DIRECTOR'S CUT" VERSION:
This means that any holy water that does not directly strike (not splash damage) a creature that is effected by it leaps through the air, striking the slithering liver directly. Slithering livers are technically resistant to this damage, but because not so much as a drop is wasted, they take full damage. This means that non-slithering liver creatures effected by holy water within 5 feet of a slithering liver never take splash effects from holy water. It also means that if a single square contains only one slithering liver (regardless of any other creatures in the square) the slithering liver has an effective AC of 5 against attacks with holy water if the square contains an surface for the vial to break against.
If more than one slithering liver might attract any "direct strike" or "splash" amount of holy water, give the damage to the closest slithering liver with any damage amounts that are equally close to two different slithering livers going to the larger one**. Any amounts still not resolved by this method should be divide as equally as possible between all eligible slithering livers, with odd points going to the ones that would otherwise take the least damage. A single vial of holy water may deal a maximum of 9 additional points of damage due to redirected splash, not 27* as a three dimensional analysis of splash damage would indicate.
*Yes, I mean 27 not 26. Consider the case of two tiny skeletons in the same square. A hit on one delivers splash damage to the other.
**Even when using this version, GMs may wish to houserule the second clause in this sentence.
Examples for medium and smaller slithering livers:
A single slithering liver is in a square in the middle of a large flat floor and no other creatures effected by holy water are within 10 feet of it. It effectively has an AC of 5 versus a thrown vial of holy water, and takes 2d4+9 points of damage from each vial that hits.
A miss from within 1 range increment deals it 2d4+4 damage if it misses in a diagonal direction, or 2d4+6 if it misses in an orthogonal direction.
Diagrams of misses with damage potentials per square:
Green numbers are the parts not redirected to the slithering liver.
Orthogonal within 1 range increment:
{table]XXX1XX|XX1XX|XX1XX
LIVER/1 | 2d4+1 |
1
XXX1XX|
1|
1
[/table]
Liver takes 2d4+6 damage.
Diagonal within 1 range increment:
{table]XXX1XX|XX1XX|
1
XXX1XX|2d4+1|XX1XX
LIVER/1 |
1|
1
XX--XX|
--|
--
[/table]
Liver takes 2d4+4 damage.
A miss from two range increments for the same single slithering liver as described above deals it 1 point of damage if it misses in a diagonal direction, or 3 points of damage if it misses in an orthogonal direction.
Diagrams of misses with damage potentials per square:
Green numbers are the parts not redirected to the slithering liver.
Orthagonal within 2 range increments:
{table]XX-XX | XX1XX|XX1XX|XX1XX
LIVER |
1|2d4+1|
1
XX-XX|XX1XX|
1|
1
[/table]
Liver takes 3 damage.
Diagonal within 2 range increments:
{table]XX--XX|XX1XX|XX1XX|XX1XX
XX--XX|
1|
2d4+1|
1
XX--XX|
1 |XX1XX|XX1XX
LIVER |
--|
--|
--
[/table]
Liver takes 1 damage.
Direct hit on square between two slithering livers 10 feet apart orthogonally:
{table]XXX1XX|XX1XX|XX1XX
LIVER/1 | 2d4+1 |
LIVER/1
XXX1XX|
1|
1
[/table]
Roll 2d4+9 and divide the damage as equally as possible, with any odd point going to the larger of the two slithering livers. If they are the same size assign any odd point randomly.
OPTIONAL RULE FOR EITHER OF THE ABOVE FOR HUMOR CAMPAIGNS:
Treat strong drink as holy water for purposes of its effect on slithering livers.
Organ Undead: For purposes of controlling or creation add a slithering liver's turn resistance to its hitdice in all cases rather than only for turning/rebuking/commanding/destroying.
Recovery (Ex):
Fine Slithering Livers reduced to exactly 0 hitpoints by damage other than acid or fire are not destroyed unless further damaged, but may take no actions until they are recovered to 1 hitpoint.
Usage:
Use them alone or mixed in with other mindless undead.
If their orders are cleverly done, or if the wielder is immune to poison it is not unknown for them to be flung like shuriken or chakrams depending on size relative to the thrower. They count as improvised weapons in such a case, but the fact that the wielder only has to make a touch attack to inflict the effect on the target makes up for that. No separate touch attack by the slithering liver is needed. Because slithering livers make touch attacks, gloves are not sufficient protection.
Alternatively, a careful user of at least medium size may load a slithering liver four size classes smaller than themself into the cup of a slingshot with tongs. This operation carries the same dangers as applying poison to a weapon although the sling itself is never contaminated. They still count as improvised weapons in such a case, and the slithering liver takes damage as if struck by a bullet from that same sling. They inflict no hitpoint damage on the creature they strike.
In ALL cases resolve any damage to a slithering liver from being throw/slung AFTER the to-hit roll, fortitude save, and/or initial ability damage is resolved. The GM should adjudicate impact damage from being thrown as he sees fit. In any case, due to this tactic negating most of the slithering liver's drawbacks (slow speed, attacks of opportunity to enter opponent's square for the smaller ones, low hitpoints, vulnerability to area attacks, and possibly the vulnerability to holy water) the slithering livers should each be counted as at least double their individual CRs when calculating encounter level.
Creating a Slithering Liver:
First the livers of one or more creatures of at least tiny size must be harvested, each requiring a Heal or Profession(Butcher) check with a DC of 10 a failed check means the liver is too damaged for reanimation. The livers must be reasonably undecayed and mostly whole.
Next Poison must be cast once over each liver for each die of ability score damage it inflicts.
The remaining corpse is still suitable for animation into most types of undead. Especially note that with the right skill checks, spells, etc it is possible to generate a Skeleton, a Slithering Liver, a Dark Heart (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3553903#post3553903), Hopping Stomach (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3301315), a contribution towards a Fat Glob (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128873), an Empty Skin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44544), a Gut Snake (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3295643&postcount=8), and a set of Floating Lungs (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62115) from a single corpse.
Finally, either Animate Dead or Create Undead, Lesser must be cast. The material components for the spell must be be placed on top of each liver to be animated. Each such casting (regardless of which spell is used) may create up to 2 HD worth of Slithering Liverss per caster level (The desecrate spell doubles this limit). Animate Dead can not create a Slithering Liver of over 20 HD. The size of the Slithering Liver is 2 size classes smaller than the size of the creature the livers were taken from (Minimum Fine Size). Slithering Livers have hit dice equal to the minimum listed for a Slithering Liver of that size, plus extra hit dice equal to 1/2 the number of extra hit dice above the minimum that the creature it was harvested from needed to achieve its size class (up to the maximum listed HD a Slithering Liver of the particular size category may be advanced to).
Random notes for related projects (Really messy, don't look unless you LOVE this series and don't mind jumbled messes).
Necrozord
Requires ALL crafting proceedures for subparts to be successful on SAME corpse.
Perfect visual memory and can replay due to eyes.
(Don't give fast healing, it is redundant with the Dark Heart)
Taxidermied skin
Final DC 25 heal check to assemble failure ruins one randomly selected organ, and prevents assembly. Can still animate everything else as individual undead if you succeed on a DC 20 heal check. Each additional failure ruins one more organ.
Multi-AttackB, Improved Multi-AttackB
Attack forms every round:
Shout OR Spit Acid each round (remember recharge time on shout)
Skin removed from extremities, both hand attacks and gut snake deal strength damage as per Muscle Mass.
Top of scalp peel back and top of skull removed, mental ability score damage aura as per Zooming brain. Remember this is dependant on
(assuming bipedal)Liver attached to forearm and palm of one arm, slam and touch attack deal poison as per slithering liver.
(assuming bipedal)Similar deal with other arm covered in fat deposits, deals Fat Glob effect depending on total body-fat weight (might go below fat-glob's minimum DCs/durations in many cases).
Grappling attack with gut snake poking out through belly.
Nasal whip to paralyze with spinal cord.
Hole through sternum grants effect of Dark Heart.
Inner ears worn as ear-rings.
2 slams (Fat, Liver)
2 whips (Gut, Nasal Spine)
1 ranged mouth
1 shoulder-mounted stomach, al la "Predator"
2 auras (Brain, Heart)
2 rays (Inner ears)
Give Perfect Multi-attack due to hive-mind, and/or as feats (is it a feat? If not, take Multi-attack as a feat to make up for it, and write things so replacing the feat removes perfect Multi-attack)
Give it enough HD that turn-resistance isn't necessary.
Destruction releases a consistent EL worth of individual organs, but roll randomly for which ones.
DO NOT allow under Animate Dead and even Create Undead, Lesser Might be pushing it.
Spinning-Horizon Inner Ear
Size/Type: Fine Undead
Hit Dice: 1d12 (6 hp)
Initiative: +10
Speed: Fly 30 ft (Good)
Armor Class: 28, touch 28, flat-footed 18 (+8 size, +10 dex)
Base Attack/Grapple: 0/-21
Attack: Disorienting Touch +3 melee touch OR Disorienting Ray +18 Ranged Touch
Full Attack: Disorienting Touch +3 melee touch OR Disorienting Ray +18 Ranged Touch
Space/Reach: ˝ ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Disorientation
Special Qualities: Improved Evasion, Turn Resistance +4
Saves: Fort 0, Ref +10, Will +2
Abilities: Str 1, Dex 30, Con —, Int —, Wis 10, Cha 1
Skills: Balance +27, Listen +10, Tumble +10
Feats: -
Environment: Any
Organization: Any (but see Combat below)
Challenge Rating: 4
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Neutral Evil
Advancement: 2 HD
Level Adjustment: —
Combat
Because of their utter lack of intelligence, the instructions given to a newly created spinning-horizon inner ear must be very simple. They generally simply attack each standing opponent in turn with their ray starting with the closest. The touch is almost never used except as an attack of opportunity.
Disorientation (Su): A spinning-horizon inner ear has two types of attacks, a touch and a ray with 60 range. A creature struck by either of these must make a fortitude Save DC 15 to avoid being sickened for 1d4 minutes (2d4 on a critical hit). The save is Charisma based and includes a +10 racial bonus. If the target is already sickened from this or other source they instead become nauseated. Creatures sickened by this condition must make a DC 15 balance check as a free action at the beginning of every round they are standing or fall down. The same check is required to stand up and is included in the move action required to (attempt to) stand up. The same things apply to creatures nauseated in whole or in part by the effects of this undead, except the DC of the balance check is 20.
The effects of one or more instance of this ability may be dispelled by a single application of Restoration, Lesser, Restoration, Restoration, Greater, or Heal.
Organ Undead: For purposes of controlling or creation add a spinning-horizon inner ears's turn resistance to its hitdice in all cases rather than only for turning/rebuking/commanding/destroying.
Skills:
Spinning-horizon inner ears have 5 free ranks each in Balance, Listen, and Tumble. In addition gain a +10 racial bonus to balance checks, and a +5 racial bonus to Listen and Tumble checks. Semi-obviously, they may use the Tumble skill while flying.
Creating a Spinning-Horizon Inner Ear:
First the hearts of one or more creatures of at least tiny size must be harvested, each inner ear requiring 30 minutes and either a Heal check DC 25 or Craft(Butcher) DC 30 (only one may be attempted per inner ear). The inner ears must be reasonably undecayed and mostly whole and the creature must have had distinct inner ears (so, for example, frogs may not be used) which aided its sense of balance. Simple failure ruins the inner ear and failure by more than 15 points means that the skull is cracked badly enough that 5 SP worth of materials and a DC 10 Heal or Craft(Sculpture) check is required before it can be used in a skeleton.
Then Cat's Grace and Fly must be cast once over each inner ear to be animated.The Mass versions of these spells may be substituted for a number of inner ears equal to the number of targets said spells could normally be used on. Similarly, Wind Walk may substitute for Fly for a number of inner ears up to the amount of creatures it could effect.
Next, either Displacement, Find the Path, or Know Direction must be cast once over each inner ear. Alternatively a single casting of Guards and Wards or Hallucinatory Terrain may substitute for a number of inner ears up to its caster level.
Finally, Animate Dead must be cast, although the inner ears merely need to be in contact with the material components. Since they effectively have 6 or 7 HD each for purposes of creation and control, this comes to 150 gp worth of black onyx apiece.
Most creatures yield 1 hd spinning-horizon inner ears, but those with exceptionally large inner ears, or individual that had at least a +7 total bonus to EACH of balance, listen, and tumble (without any adjustments for magic items or non-permanent spells) yield 2 HD spinning-horizon inner ears.
Usage:
Controlled spinning-horizon inner ears are almost always encountered with another type of creature to take advantage of downed opponents, although occasionally they are placed where their attacks might cause falls, such as near castle walls. Such creatures usually have orders to hide until intruders are in a dangerous location, although mass deployment of them before the majority of scaling ladder crews had reached a necromancers castle in a particular attack was recorded on at least one occasion.
Particularly clever necromancers have been known to wear or even sell tiny cages with spinning-horizon inner ears with orders to attack anyone other than the wearer that they SEE. The cages are just large enough, and the holes between the comparatively thick bars just small enough to provide improved cover, while not causing any to-hit penalties for the inner ears themselves (similar to the functionality of arrow slits in a castle wall). The cages are carefully covered in very small draw-string bags before the cages are removed.
Discussion from DnD-Wiki IRC chat:
:00 <Tarkisflux >Also, a small CR 1 liver doing 1d10 con damage with a DC 10 save seems a bit strong for CR 1
02:01 <Tarkisflux >Did I miss something there?
02:04 <DracoDei >The save is really low, and it is very slow, meaning the squishy types can stay away from it fairly easily, and it can't charge very far to get to them.
02:06 <Tarkisflux >I'm worried about closet livers, who hit a trap searching rogue or other non-thug occasional front liner.
02:07 <Tarkisflux >DC 10 is enough to hit a rogue with a mediocre Con a good third of the time, and 1d10 is enough to make it pretty likely that they go down in the fight or suffer the second Con hit.
02:08 <DracoDei >Yeah, CRs are always hard to estimate, and were a lot of why I came here looking for a second set of eyes.
02:08 <DracoDei >I will bump it up.
02:08 <DracoDei >CR 2 it is.
02:08 <Tarkisflux >And it's not like that's easy to heal at level 1. So it might make an okay mob monster at higher ELs
02:09 <Tarkisflux >That's probably a fair middle
02:09 <Tarkisflux >Thanks for the opinion DracoDei
02:10 <Tarkisflux >I really wish there was a simple way to do Neutralize the Holy Bane
02:10 <Tarkisflux >Actually, the simple version (whcih I read last) isn't bad
02:11 <DracoDei >Oh, OK.
02:11 <DracoDei >How bad is the
02:11 <Tarkisflux >I don't see myself using the director's cut at all, or any other group I've ever played with
02:11 <DracoDei >"directors cut" version?
02:11 <DracoDei >Ok, so pretty bad.
02:12 <Tarkisflux >Which isn't to say that it's bad, it's just really complicated and most people cut that out in the name of "moving on" in my experience.
02:12 <Tarkisflux >It looked like a lot of fun to write though
02:13 <DracoDei >Yeah, I tend to imagine interesting things in my head, and then make the mechanics rigorously reflect that. Based on my past experiences, I included the "Simple Version" from the start this time around (first time I did that I think, in the past it was only after people complained).
02:13 <Tarkisflux >Eh, for reference, most groups I've played with have been playing since the mid 90s and started on 2e before avoiding becoming grognards and moving on to 3e. There may be a bit more willingness to handwave weird rules things in my circles than in general.
02:14 <DracoDei >"a lot of fun to write"? As in you think I had much fun creating it?
02:14 <Tarkisflux >Ah, if there's a history of people asking for the simple version then I'd probably just use that.
02:14 <Tarkisflux >Yes
02:14 <Tarkisflux >Fun to think through. An entertaining mental exercise.
02:14 <DracoDei >I can't leave out the complex version. It wouldn't be "true to my art".
02:14 <Tarkisflux >Fair enough. Can't argue aesthetics much.
02:15 <DracoDei >I can however do two versions.
02:16 <DracoDei >Is "Recovery" the sort of rule you would omit in your own games as well?
02:16 <Tarkisflux >I'm not sure
02:16 <Tarkisflux >Was just thinking about it
02:17 <Tarkisflux >I'm having a hard time coming up with a time when I'd deal exactly 1 point of damage to them
02:18 <Tarkisflux >Other than intentionally, to leave them as traps for people to pick up
02:18 <DracoDei >Splash damage from holy water (if that is possible under the simple version).
02:18 <Tarkisflux >Ah
02:19 <DracoDei >Or a desperate wizard or low-strength rogue.
02:19 <DracoDei >And they are already undead.
02:19 <DracoDei >They can "play dead" perfectly well without having taken any damage I should think.
02:19 <Tarkisflux >yes
02:20 <DracoDei >So "leaving them as traps" doesn't add up to me.
02:20 <DracoDei >Especially since the wounds slowly healing would be visible to a sharp-eyed observer.
02:20 <Tarkisflux >Yeah
02:20 <DracoDei >Plus it only takes 3 rounds for them to heal that point of damage, which isn't a large window of opportunity.
02:20 <DracoDei >Right...
02:21 <Tarkisflux >Though if you wanted to leave them as traps, you can throw them instead of arrows (based on your chakram comments) or drop them like Tribbles from overhead compartments.
02:21 <Tarkisflux >But that's more of a traditional trap
02:21 <DracoDei >Yes.
02:21 <Tarkisflux >Anyway
02:21 <DracoDei >Oh, you mean like "poison dart trap" except with unliving ammo?
02:22 <Tarkisflux >Why do you wan them to continue on when the others don't anyway?
02:22 <Tarkisflux >Yes
02:22 <DracoDei >You men the "Recovery" thing?
02:22 <Tarkisflux >Yeah. Why not make it a universal trait of the livers?
02:24 <DracoDei >Because, for once, I was trying to keep things simple, and the others have (or can have) enough hitpoints that the regen can do something anyway in theory.
02:24 <Tarkisflux >well, recovery is a pretty minor thing. it gives them 1 extra hit point basically, but they're staggered when they're at it.
02:25 <Tarkisflux >I could see that being applied to all of them, if only to get more mileage out of the ability.
02:25 <DracoDei >If you look back at the very first table and read the ** footnote, you will see that I recommended applying the "Recovery" thing to the Diminutive ones if the GM doesn't roll or statistically distribute the hitpoints.
02:25 <Tarkisflux >I wouldn't ignore it on the fine ones though. It's just unlikely to come up.
02:25 <DracoDei >I suppose I could do that.
02:26 <Tarkisflux >If there's one undead organ that deserves to regenerate from almost dead, it's a liver.
02:26 <DracoDei >Precisely.
02:27 <DracoDei >Only internal organ that can really regrow missing parts.
02:27 <DracoDei >What do you think of the rules for creating them?
02:28 <Tarkisflux >Seemed reasonable.
02:29 <DracoDei >Anything else to add? I do have a specific question I want to ask, but only after you have said everything you can think of to say about them.
02:30 <Tarkisflux >Shoot. Everything that jumped out I've brought up
02:32 <DracoDei >Ok, you will notice that the Small version comes from a Large creature, and that its poison is equivalent to the clerical spell *Poison*.
02:33 <DracoDei >Actually... let me back up.
02:33 <Tarkisflux >up to the DC anyway
02:33 <Tarkisflux >Which is lower, as discussed.
02:33 <DracoDei >Let's say that some necromancer, PC or NPC (and it might make a difference).
02:34 <DracoDei >Let's say that some necromancer, PC or NPC (and it might make a difference), decides they want to make one of these, and they aren't TOO picky about the size.
02:34 <DracoDei >How would they do it in one of the games you play?
02:34 <DracoDei >Where would they get the corpse?
02:35 <Tarkisflux >So many options.
02:36 <DracoDei >Start listing stuff. Just one or two to a line.
02:36 <Tarkisflux >They might take them from fallen foes, and toss in a random "is liver intact" percentage check for each body. They might take them out of beggars killed via the poison spell they need to make them in the first palce.
02:36 <Tarkisflux >Or orphans
02:36 <DrPlatypus >You should write notes
02:36 <DrPlatypus >using WORKFLOWY
02:36 <DrPlatypus >THE PREMIER NOTE TAKING TECHNOLOGY
02:36 <Tarkisflux >Because Necromancers aren't ageists.
02:36 <DracoDei >Ok...
02:37 <DracoDei >Try this on for size, especially at low levels.
02:37 <Tarkisflux >A creature that regenerates would be a good call
02:37 <DrPlatypus >(thisadvertismenetbroughttoyoubyfetchingplatypusin dustries.fetchingplatypusindustriesisinowayassocia tedwithadvertisedproducts)
02:38 *** DrPlatypus quit (Connection reset by peer)
02:38 <DracoDei >You drop a few ranks in Craft "Butcher", and take payment in kind for some craft checks.
02:38 <Tarkisflux >Food stuffs are a good source too
02:38 <Tarkisflux >Instead of liver and onions, you just make assault livers
02:39 <DracoDei >IE, some guy brings you X cows and you give him back butchered meat from .95*X (or whatever multiplier works) cows.
02:39 <DracoDei >Right.
02:39 <Tarkisflux >YEah
02:39 <DracoDei >For this reason I always start with the size of organ you could get from a cow and make that equal to the most applicable spell.
02:39 <DracoDei >But, the thing is, that loses a lot of the horror factor.
02:40 <DracoDei >Butchering orphans to create your army is just EVIL.
02:40 <Tarkisflux >Well, if you want to retain horror (and don't want undead Mooing) you could add a sentient qualifier to the creation
02:40 <DracoDei >Beyond the who undead minions and what you might do with them level of evil.
02:40 <DracoDei >Right.
02:40 <DracoDei >I don't.
02:41 <Tarkisflux >ok
02:41 <DracoDei >I am just kinda curious what level of play groups have their necromancers that pragmatic.
02:41 <Tarkisflux >Not mine. Not generally in theme.
02:42 <Tarkisflux >And since you also need to be level 7 or have level 5 druid friends to get this off the ground, it seems like you could do better than pragmatic.
02:42 <DracoDei >And wishing to keep a low profile/fewer peasants motivated enough to risk joining the torches and pitchforks mobs futilely trying to storm the lair.
02:42 <Tarkisflux >Unless you really wanted liver throwing discs
02:43 <DracoDei >Druids?
02:43 <Tarkisflux >Yeah. They get poison as a 3
02:43 <DracoDei >Oh, druids get Poison a level early?
02:43 DracoDei nods.
<Tarkisflux >On a personal note, I don't actually like the poison requirement. It means a necromancer specialist has to bring in a high level assassin, cleric, or druid to make these things. Which is par for the 3.x necromancer course, but isn't anything I personally like to see propagated.
02:45 <Tarkisflux >There's nothing wrong with it from standard 3.x "the cleric is a better necromancer than you" design though.
02:46 <Tarkisflux >Oh, I forgot Blackguard. You can get them to help too I guess.
02:46 <DracoDei >Should I just go ahead and shift all the CRs down one size, or is the situation more complex than that do you think?
02:46 <Tarkisflux >Really, really late.
02:46 <Tarkisflux >I think I'd shift them all down. Con poison is a pain at those levels.
02:47 <Tarkisflux >That, or revise your advice to use them alone. Mixed in with other groups of things means that you're less likely to encounter them until you can deal with it and have better saves.
02:47 <DracoDei >CR's currently go up to 4. 5 if I shift everything down.
02:48 <DracoDei >Err...?
02:48 <DracoDei >Let me check that.
02:48 <DracoDei >"Use them alone or mixed in with other mindless undead." <-That is what it says.
02:48 <Tarkisflux >Recommending striking the "alone" part if you keep current CRs
02:50 <DracoDei >Maybe an "If alone, use only the larger ones, since the smaller ones will be disproportionately difficult to cure someone of the damage if encountered at CR appropriate levels."
02:50 <Tarkisflux >That works pretty well actually
02:51 <DracoDei >The point wasn't that the party would have any hope of curing them faster than the heal skill-boosted recovery rates for ability damage, but rather that the damage was low enough that it was an acceptable load to deal with while the damage was recovering.
02:51 <Tarkisflux >2d8 Con, DC 12 is pretty hardcore for CR 4, but at least by then you have delay poison and minor resto and a few other tricks.
02:51 <DracoDei >2d8 Con primary and secondary is hardcore.
02:52 <DracoDei >DC 12 is almost a joke as DCs go.
02:52 <Tarkisflux >It is a joke
02:52 *** Karrius quit (Quit: If you can't laugh at yourself, make fun of other people.)
02:52 <DracoDei >But at those levels even the "easy" DCs get failed.
02:52 <Tarkisflux >Yeah, that. And failure is bad for that oen.
02:52 <DracoDei >Even by characters with good saves and ability scores.
02:53 <DracoDei >Actually...
02:53 <DracoDei >I got a spell you might want to look at. I am NOT hungry for critique, I just honestly think you might find it interesting.
02:53 <Tarkisflux >Sure
02:53 <DracoDei >It is designed to keep poison relevant at higher levels.
02:54 Tarkisflux is intrigued
02:54 <DracoDei >An effect I will need for my "Skulking Bladders", since they are supposed to poison the king's cup, and that is stupid when the king eats *Hero's Feast* for breakfast and dinner.
02:55 <DracoDei >Or whatever.
02:56 <DracoDei >http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151376
02:58 <DracoDei >Skulking Bladders are probably going to be the last ones of the series I do, simply because they are horribly complicated while at the same time being VERY specialty purpose.
02:59 <Tarkisflux >Heh
03:00 <Tarkisflux >Spell seems pretty reasonable. Using SR to bypass blanket immunity is a good call.
03:00 <Tarkisflux >Could afford to drop the level for Druids perhaps
After looking at vipers, I decided to shift the CRs down one for all but the last two size-classes.
Open Spoiler below for main stat block for Fine, Diminutive, and Tiny Slithering Livers.
{table="head"]~| Slithering Liver, Fine | Slithering Liver, Diminutive | Slithering Liver, Tiny
Size and Type |
Fine Undead [Organ Undead] |
Diminutive Undead [Organ Undead] |
Tiny Undead [Organ Undead] | Size and Type
Hit Dice |
1/8d12 (1 hp)* |
1/4d12 (1 hp)** |
1/2d12 (3 hp) | Hit Dice
Speed |
10 ft |
10 ft |
15 ft
Initiative |
+4 |
+3 |
+2 | Initiative
AC |22 (+8 size, +4 Dex); touch 22; flat-footed 18|17 (+4 size, +3 Dex); touch 17; flat-footed 14|14 (+2 size, +2 Dex); touch 14; flat-footed 12| AC
BAB |
+0 |
+0 |
+0 | Base Attack Bonus
Grapple |
-21 |
-16 |
-10 | Grapple
Attack |
Toxic Touch +12 Melee Touch |
Toxic Touch +7 Melee Touch |
Toxic Touch +4 Melee Touch | Attacks
Space/Reach |
1/2 ft./0 ft. |
1 ft./0 ft. |
2 1/2 ft./0 ft. | Space/Reach
Special Attacks |
Toxic Touch |
Toxic Touch |
Toxic Touch | Special Abilities
Special Qualities|Dark Vision 60 ft., Undead Traits, Fast Healing 1/4*, Neutralize the Holy Bane, Recovery|Dark Vision 60 ft., Undead Traits, Fast Healing 1/3**, Neutralize the Holy Bane|Dark Vision 60 ft., Undead Traits, Fast Healing 1/2, Neutralize the Holy Bane| Special Qualities
Saves |
Fort +2 Ref +4 Will +2 |
Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +2 |
Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +2 |
Abilities |
Str 1, Dex 18, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 1|
Str 2, Dex 16, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 1 |
Str 6, Dex 14, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 1 |
Skills |
~ |
~ |
~ | Skills
Feats |
Weapon Finesse(B), Great Fortitude(B)*** |
Weapon Finesse(B), Great Fortitude(B)*** |
Weapon Finesse(B), Great Fortitude(B)*** | Feats
Environment |
Any |
Any |
Any |
Organization |
Any |
Any |
Any |
Challenge Rating |
1/3 |
1/2 |
1 |
Treasure |
None |
None |
None |
Alignment |
Always Neutral Evil |
Always Neutral Evil |
Always Neutral Evil | Alignment
Advancement |
~ |
~ |
~ |
Level Adjustment |
~ |
~ |
~ |[/table]
* Due to their "Recovery" ability, Fine Slithering Livers reduced to exactly 0 hitpoints by damage other than acid or fire are not destroyed unless further damaged, but may take no actions until they are recovered to 1 hitpoint.
** GMs are advised to give approximately seven twelfths (or 2/3rds for simplicity) of all diminutive slithering livers in a group 1 hitpoint, one third of them 2 hitpoints, and the remainder 3 hitpoints, rather than using the average for all of them. This will allow the fast healing to actually be a factor sometimes. Alternatively, consider applying the "Recovery" ability to them.
*** Technically they also get the Poison Resistance feat as a bonus feat. This is omitted from the table because unless Libris Mortis or another rules set for poisons that work against the undead are in play it will almost never come up.
Open Spoiler below for main stat block for Small, Medium, and Large Slithering Livers.
{table="head"]~| Slithering Liver, Small | Slithering Liver, Medium | Slithering Liver, Large
Size and Type |
Small Undead [Organ Undead] |
Medium Undead [Organ Undead] |
Large Undead [Organ Undead] | Size and Type
Hit Dice |
1d12 (6 hp) |
2d12 (13 hp) |
4d12 (26 hp) | Hit-Dice (Hitpoints)
Speed |
15 ft |
20 ft |
20 ft | Speed
Initiative |
-3 |
-4 |
-5 | Initiative
AC |12 (+1 Dex, +1 size); touch 12; flat-footed 11|11(+1 Natural); touch 10; flat-footed 11|11 (-1 size, +2 Natural); touch 9; flat-footed 11|
BAB |
+0 |
+1 |
+2 | Base Attack Bonus
Grapple |
-4 |
+2 |
+10 | Grapple
Attack |
Toxic Touch +2 Melee Touch |
Toxic Touch +2 Melee Touch |
Toxic Touch +5 Melee Touch | Attack
Space/Reach |
5 ft./5 ft. |
5 ft./5 ft. |
10 ft/5 ft. | Space/Reach
Special Attacks |
Toxic Touch |
Toxic Touch |
Toxic Touch | Special Attacks
Special Qualities|Dark Vision 60 ft., Undead Traits, Fast Healing 1, Neutralize the Holy Bane|Dark Vision 60 ft., Undead Traits, Fast Healing 2, Neutralize the Holy Bane|Dark Vision 60 ft., Undead Traits, Fast Healing 4, Neutralize the Holy Bane| Special Qualities
Saves |
Fort +2, Ref +1, Will +2|
Fort +2, Ref +0, Will +3|
Fort +3, Ref +1, Will +4 | Saves
Abilities |
Str 10, Dex 12, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 1 |
Str 12, Dex 10, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 1|
STR 18, Dex 10, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 1| Abilities
Skills |
~ |
~ |
~ | Skills
Feats |
Weapon Finesse(B), Great Fortitude(B)*** |
Great Fortitude(B)*** |
Great Fortitude(B)*** | Feats
Environment |
Any |
Any |
Any |
Organization |
Any |
Any |
Any |
Challenge Rating |
2 |
3 |
5 | Challenge Rating
Treasure |
None |
None |
None |
Alignment |
Always Neutral Evil|
Always Neutral Evil|
Always Neutral Evil |
Advancement | ~ |
3 HD (Medium) |
5-7 HD (Large) |
Level Adjustment |
~ |
~ |
~ |[/table]
*** Technically they also get the Poison Resistance feat as a bonus feat. This is omitted from the table because unless Libris Mortis or another rules set for poisons that work against the undead are in play it will almost never come up.
Open Spoiler below for main stat block for Huge and Gargantuan Slithering Livers.
{table="head"]~| Slithering Liver, Huge | Slithering Liver, Gargantuan
Size and Type |
Huge Undead |
Gargantuan Undead | Size and Type
Hit Dice |
8d12 (52 hp) |
16d12 (104 hp) | Hit-Dice (Hitpoints)
Speed |
30 ft |
30 ft | Speed
Initiative |
-3 |
-4 | Initiative
AC |12 (-2 size, +4 Natural); touch 8; flat-footed 12|14(-4 size, +8 Natural); touch 6; flat-footed 14 | AC
BAB |
+4 |
+8 |
+8 | Base Attack Bonus
Grapple |
+19 |
+30 | Grapple
Attack |
Toxic Touch +9 Melee Touch|
Toxic Touch +14 Melee Touch| Attack
Space/Reach |
15 ft./10 ft. |
20 ft./15 ft. | Space/Reach
Special Attacks |
Toxic Touch |
Toxic Touch |
Toxic Touch | Special Attacks
Special Qualities|Dark Vision 60 ft., Undead Traits, Fast Healing 8, Neutralize the Holy Bane|Dark Vision 60 ft., Undead Traits, Fast Healing 16, Neutralize the Holy Bane| Special Qualities
Saves |
Fort +4, Ref +2, Will +6 |
Fort +7, Ref +5, Will +1 | Saves
Abilities |
Str 24, Dex 10, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 1 |
Str 30, Dex 10, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 1| Abilities
Skills |
~ |
~ | Skills
Feats |
Great Fortitude(B)*** |
Great Fortitude(B)*** |
Great Fortitude(B)*** | Feats
Environment |
Any |
Any |
Any |
Organization |
Any |
Any |Organization
Challenge Rating |
10 |
12 | Challenge Rating
Treasure |
None |
None |
None |
Alignment |
Always Neutral Evil |
Always Neutral Evil |
Always Neutral Evil |
Advancement |
9-15 HD (Small) |
17+ HD (Medium) | Advancement
Level Adjustment|
~ |
~ | LA[/table]
*** Technically they also get the Poison Resistance feat as a bonus feat. This is omitted from the table because unless Libris Mortis or another rules set for poisons that work against the undead are in play it will almost never come up.
Toxic Touch (Su):
Slithering livers have a poisonous touch that deals initial and secondary damage to Constitution. Gargantuan Slithering Livers also deal constitution drain on a failed save(This does not grant them hitpoints). The save DC varies by the slithering liver’s size, as shown on the table below. The save DCs are Constitution-based. Since slithering livers have no constitution score, this is simply 10 + 1/2 HD.
{table="head"]Size|Primary and Secondary Damage (DC)|Size of Source Creature
Fine |
1d4 (10) |
Tiny
Diminutive|
1d6 (10) |
Small
Tiny |
1d8 (10) |
Medium
Small |
1d10 (10) |
Large
Medium |
2d6 (11) |
Huge
Large |
2d8 (12*) |
Gargantuan
Huge |
2d10 (14*) |
Colossal
Gargantuan |
3d6 Damage + 1d2 Drain** (18*) |
Colossal+
[/table]
* This DC is for a slithering liver of the normal hitdice for the size. Slithering livers with additional hitdice may produce a higher DC.
** This drain does not grant the slithering liver hitpoints.
Neutralize the Holy Bane (Su):
In living creatures, the liver reacts poisons to neutralize them. What would be instantly fatal in the blood entering the brain is simple for the liver. The corrupted nature of slithering livers turns this ability against holy water, protecting other undead at the cost of itself.
Exposed holy water within 5' of a slithering liver is strongly drawn to it. Slithering livers are technically resistant to this damage, but because not so much as a drop is wasted, they take as much damage as the holy water that is attracted would have normally inflicted upon striking an undead.
SIMPLE VERSION:
Holy water vials aimed at a slithering liver of medium or smaller size from within 1 range increment automatically hit. From further out such a slithering liver instead has a touch AC of 5 regardless of size, dexterity, or deflection/insight/profane(or technically sacred) bonuses. Bonuses from cover still apply to this AC. Miss chances for concealment do not apply.
For each size category above medium the slithering liver is automatically struck if aimed at from 1 range increment further out.
A holy water vial not aimed at a slithering liver that strikes a square (not a target that can be affected by it, but just a square) within 5 feet of a slithering liver is treated as having struck that slithering liver directly. If there are multiple slithering livers within range, pick one in the square where the vial landed select one randomly. If there is none in that square, select one within 5 feet randomly.
A holy water vial that strikes a slithering liver directly (or treated as such due to the previous paragraph) deals no damage to any other target, but deals 2d4+9 damage to the slithering liver. Note that for many of them (including average ones of small or smaller size) this is enough that the damage need not be rolled.
DRACO DEI'S "DIRECTOR'S CUT" VERSION:
This means that any holy water that does not directly strike (not splash damage) a creature that is effected by it leaps through the air, striking the slithering liver directly. Slithering livers are technically resistant to this damage, but because not so much as a drop is wasted, they take full damage. This means that non-slithering liver creatures effected by holy water within 5 feet of a slithering liver never take splash effects from holy water. It also means that if a single square contains only one slithering liver (regardless of any other creatures in the square) the slithering liver has an effective AC of 5 against attacks with holy water if the square contains an surface for the vial to break against.
If more than one slithering liver might attract any "direct strike" or "splash" amount of holy water, give the damage to the closest slithering liver with any damage amounts that are equally close to two different slithering livers going to the larger one**. Any amounts still not resolved by this method should be divide as equally as possible between all eligible slithering livers, with odd points going to the ones that would otherwise take the least damage. A single vial of holy water may deal a maximum of 9 additional points of damage due to redirected splash, not 27* as a three dimensional analysis of splash damage would indicate.
*Yes, I mean 27 not 26. Consider the case of two tiny skeletons in the same square. A hit on one delivers splash damage to the other.
**Even when using this version, GMs may wish to houserule the second clause in this sentence.
Examples for medium and smaller slithering livers:
A single slithering liver is in a square in the middle of a large flat floor and no other creatures effected by holy water are within 10 feet of it. It effectively has an AC of 5 versus a thrown vial of holy water, and takes 2d4+9 points of damage from each vial that hits.
A miss from within 1 range increment deals it 2d4+4 damage if it misses in a diagonal direction, or 2d4+6 if it misses in an orthogonal direction.
Diagrams of misses with damage potentials per square:
Green numbers are the parts not redirected to the slithering liver.
Orthogonal within 1 range increment:
{table]XXX1XX|XX1XX|XX1XX
LIVER/1 | 2d4+1 |
1
XXX1XX|
1|
1
[/table]
Liver takes 2d4+6 damage.
Diagonal within 1 range increment:
{table]XXX1XX|XX1XX|
1
XXX1XX|2d4+1|XX1XX
LIVER/1 |
1|
1
XX--XX|
--|
--
[/table]
Liver takes 2d4+4 damage.
A miss from two range increments for the same single slithering liver as described above deals it 1 point of damage if it misses in a diagonal direction, or 3 points of damage if it misses in an orthogonal direction.
Diagrams of misses with damage potentials per square:
Green numbers are the parts not redirected to the slithering liver.
Orthagonal within 2 range increments:
{table]XX-XX | XX1XX|XX1XX|XX1XX
LIVER |
1|2d4+1|
1
XX-XX|XX1XX|
1|
1
[/table]
Liver takes 3 damage.
Diagonal within 2 range increments:
{table]XX--XX|XX1XX|XX1XX|XX1XX
XX--XX|
1|
2d4+1|
1
XX--XX|
1 |XX1XX|XX1XX
LIVER |
--|
--|
--
[/table]
Liver takes 1 damage.
Direct hit on square between two slithering livers 10 feet apart orthogonally:
{table]XXX1XX|XX1XX|XX1XX
LIVER/1 | 2d4+1 |
LIVER/1
XXX1XX|
1|
1
[/table]
Roll 2d4+9 and divide the damage as equally as possible, with any odd point going to the larger of the two slithering livers. If they are the same size assign any odd point randomly.
OPTIONAL RULE FOR EITHER OF THE ABOVE FOR HUMOR CAMPAIGNS:
Treat strong drink as holy water for purposes of its effect on slithering livers.
Organ Undead: For purposes of controlling or creation add a slithering liver's turn resistance to its hitdice in all cases rather than only for turning/rebuking/commanding/destroying.
Recovery (Ex):
Fine Slithering Livers reduced to exactly 0 hitpoints by damage other than acid or fire are not destroyed unless further damaged, but may take no actions until they are recovered to 1 hitpoint.
Usage:
Use them alone or mixed in with other mindless undead.
If their orders are cleverly done, or if the wielder is immune to poison it is not unknown for them to be flung like shuriken or chakrams depending on size relative to the thrower. They count as improvised weapons in such a case, but the fact that the wielder only has to make a touch attack to inflict the effect on the target makes up for that. No separate touch attack by the slithering liver is needed. Because slithering livers make touch attacks, gloves are not sufficient protection.
Alternatively, a careful user of at least medium size may load a slithering liver four size classes smaller than themself into the cup of a slingshot with tongs. This operation carries the same dangers as applying poison to a weapon although the sling itself is never contaminated. They still count as improvised weapons in such a case, and the slithering liver takes damage as if struck by a bullet from that same sling. They inflict no hitpoint damage on the creature they strike.
In ALL cases resolve any damage to a slithering liver from being throw/slung AFTER the to-hit roll, fortitude save, and/or initial ability damage is resolved. The GM should adjudicate impact damage from being thrown as he sees fit. In any case, due to this tactic negating most of the slithering liver's drawbacks (slow speed, attacks of opportunity to enter opponent's square for the smaller ones, low hitpoints, vulnerability to area attacks, and possibly the vulnerability to holy water) the slithering livers should each be counted as at least double their individual CRs when calculating encounter level.
Creating a Slithering Liver:
First the livers of one or more creatures of at least tiny size must be harvested, each requiring a Heal or Profession(Butcher) check with a DC of 10 a failed check means the liver is too damaged for reanimation. The livers must be reasonably undecayed and mostly whole.
Next Poison must be cast once over each liver for each die of ability score damage it inflicts.
The remaining corpse is still suitable for animation into most types of undead. Especially note that with the right skill checks, spells, etc it is possible to generate a Skeleton, a Slithering Liver, a Dark Heart (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3553903#post3553903), Hopping Stomach (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3301315), a contribution towards a Fat Glob (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128873), an Empty Skin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44544), a Gut Snake (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3295643&postcount=8), and a set of Floating Lungs (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62115) from a single corpse.
Finally, either Animate Dead or Create Undead, Lesser must be cast. The material components for the spell must be be placed on top of each liver to be animated. Each such casting (regardless of which spell is used) may create up to 2 HD worth of Slithering Liverss per caster level (The desecrate spell doubles this limit). Animate Dead can not create a Slithering Liver of over 20 HD. The size of the Slithering Liver is 2 size classes smaller than the size of the creature the livers were taken from (Minimum Fine Size). Slithering Livers have hit dice equal to the minimum listed for a Slithering Liver of that size, plus extra hit dice equal to 1/2 the number of extra hit dice above the minimum that the creature it was harvested from needed to achieve its size class (up to the maximum listed HD a Slithering Liver of the particular size category may be advanced to).
Random notes for related projects (Really messy, don't look unless you LOVE this series and don't mind jumbled messes).
Necrozord
Requires ALL crafting proceedures for subparts to be successful on SAME corpse.
Perfect visual memory and can replay due to eyes.
(Don't give fast healing, it is redundant with the Dark Heart)
Taxidermied skin
Final DC 25 heal check to assemble failure ruins one randomly selected organ, and prevents assembly. Can still animate everything else as individual undead if you succeed on a DC 20 heal check. Each additional failure ruins one more organ.
Multi-AttackB, Improved Multi-AttackB
Attack forms every round:
Shout OR Spit Acid each round (remember recharge time on shout)
Skin removed from extremities, both hand attacks and gut snake deal strength damage as per Muscle Mass.
Top of scalp peel back and top of skull removed, mental ability score damage aura as per Zooming brain. Remember this is dependant on
(assuming bipedal)Liver attached to forearm and palm of one arm, slam and touch attack deal poison as per slithering liver.
(assuming bipedal)Similar deal with other arm covered in fat deposits, deals Fat Glob effect depending on total body-fat weight (might go below fat-glob's minimum DCs/durations in many cases).
Grappling attack with gut snake poking out through belly.
Nasal whip to paralyze with spinal cord.
Hole through sternum grants effect of Dark Heart.
Inner ears worn as ear-rings.
2 slams (Fat, Liver)
2 whips (Gut, Nasal Spine)
1 ranged mouth
1 shoulder-mounted stomach, al la "Predator"
2 auras (Brain, Heart)
2 rays (Inner ears)
Give Perfect Multi-attack due to hive-mind, and/or as feats (is it a feat? If not, take Multi-attack as a feat to make up for it, and write things so replacing the feat removes perfect Multi-attack)
Give it enough HD that turn-resistance isn't necessary.
Destruction releases a consistent EL worth of individual organs, but roll randomly for which ones.
DO NOT allow under Animate Dead and even Create Undead, Lesser Might be pushing it.
Spinning-Horizon Inner Ear
Size/Type: Fine Undead
Hit Dice: 1d12 (6 hp)
Initiative: +10
Speed: Fly 30 ft (Good)
Armor Class: 28, touch 28, flat-footed 18 (+8 size, +10 dex)
Base Attack/Grapple: 0/-21
Attack: Disorienting Touch +3 melee touch OR Disorienting Ray +18 Ranged Touch
Full Attack: Disorienting Touch +3 melee touch OR Disorienting Ray +18 Ranged Touch
Space/Reach: ˝ ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Disorientation
Special Qualities: Improved Evasion, Turn Resistance +4
Saves: Fort 0, Ref +10, Will +2
Abilities: Str 1, Dex 30, Con —, Int —, Wis 10, Cha 1
Skills: Balance +27, Listen +10, Tumble +10
Feats: -
Environment: Any
Organization: Any (but see Combat below)
Challenge Rating: 4
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Neutral Evil
Advancement: 2 HD
Level Adjustment: —
Combat
Because of their utter lack of intelligence, the instructions given to a newly created spinning-horizon inner ear must be very simple. They generally simply attack each standing opponent in turn with their ray starting with the closest. The touch is almost never used except as an attack of opportunity.
Disorientation (Su): A spinning-horizon inner ear has two types of attacks, a touch and a ray with 60 range. A creature struck by either of these must make a fortitude Save DC 15 to avoid being sickened for 1d4 minutes (2d4 on a critical hit). The save is Charisma based and includes a +10 racial bonus. If the target is already sickened from this or other source they instead become nauseated. Creatures sickened by this condition must make a DC 15 balance check as a free action at the beginning of every round they are standing or fall down. The same check is required to stand up and is included in the move action required to (attempt to) stand up. The same things apply to creatures nauseated in whole or in part by the effects of this undead, except the DC of the balance check is 20.
The effects of one or more instance of this ability may be dispelled by a single application of Restoration, Lesser, Restoration, Restoration, Greater, or Heal.
Organ Undead: For purposes of controlling or creation add a spinning-horizon inner ears's turn resistance to its hitdice in all cases rather than only for turning/rebuking/commanding/destroying.
Skills:
Spinning-horizon inner ears have 5 free ranks each in Balance, Listen, and Tumble. In addition gain a +10 racial bonus to balance checks, and a +5 racial bonus to Listen and Tumble checks. Semi-obviously, they may use the Tumble skill while flying.
Creating a Spinning-Horizon Inner Ear:
First the hearts of one or more creatures of at least tiny size must be harvested, each inner ear requiring 30 minutes and either a Heal check DC 25 or Craft(Butcher) DC 30 (only one may be attempted per inner ear). The inner ears must be reasonably undecayed and mostly whole and the creature must have had distinct inner ears (so, for example, frogs may not be used) which aided its sense of balance. Simple failure ruins the inner ear and failure by more than 15 points means that the skull is cracked badly enough that 5 SP worth of materials and a DC 10 Heal or Craft(Sculpture) check is required before it can be used in a skeleton.
Then Cat's Grace and Fly must be cast once over each inner ear to be animated.The Mass versions of these spells may be substituted for a number of inner ears equal to the number of targets said spells could normally be used on. Similarly, Wind Walk may substitute for Fly for a number of inner ears up to the amount of creatures it could effect.
Next, either Displacement, Find the Path, or Know Direction must be cast once over each inner ear. Alternatively a single casting of Guards and Wards or Hallucinatory Terrain may substitute for a number of inner ears up to its caster level.
Finally, Animate Dead must be cast, although the inner ears merely need to be in contact with the material components. Since they effectively have 6 or 7 HD each for purposes of creation and control, this comes to 150 gp worth of black onyx apiece.
Most creatures yield 1 hd spinning-horizon inner ears, but those with exceptionally large inner ears, or individual that had at least a +7 total bonus to EACH of balance, listen, and tumble (without any adjustments for magic items or non-permanent spells) yield 2 HD spinning-horizon inner ears.
Usage:
Controlled spinning-horizon inner ears are almost always encountered with another type of creature to take advantage of downed opponents, although occasionally they are placed where their attacks might cause falls, such as near castle walls. Such creatures usually have orders to hide until intruders are in a dangerous location, although mass deployment of them before the majority of scaling ladder crews had reached a necromancers castle in a particular attack was recorded on at least one occasion.
Particularly clever necromancers have been known to wear or even sell tiny cages with spinning-horizon inner ears with orders to attack anyone other than the wearer that they SEE. The cages are just large enough, and the holes between the comparatively thick bars just small enough to provide improved cover, while not causing any to-hit penalties for the inner ears themselves (similar to the functionality of arrow slits in a castle wall). The cages are carefully covered in very small draw-string bags before the cages are removed.
Discussion from DnD-Wiki IRC chat:
:00 <Tarkisflux >Also, a small CR 1 liver doing 1d10 con damage with a DC 10 save seems a bit strong for CR 1
02:01 <Tarkisflux >Did I miss something there?
02:04 <DracoDei >The save is really low, and it is very slow, meaning the squishy types can stay away from it fairly easily, and it can't charge very far to get to them.
02:06 <Tarkisflux >I'm worried about closet livers, who hit a trap searching rogue or other non-thug occasional front liner.
02:07 <Tarkisflux >DC 10 is enough to hit a rogue with a mediocre Con a good third of the time, and 1d10 is enough to make it pretty likely that they go down in the fight or suffer the second Con hit.
02:08 <DracoDei >Yeah, CRs are always hard to estimate, and were a lot of why I came here looking for a second set of eyes.
02:08 <DracoDei >I will bump it up.
02:08 <DracoDei >CR 2 it is.
02:08 <Tarkisflux >And it's not like that's easy to heal at level 1. So it might make an okay mob monster at higher ELs
02:09 <Tarkisflux >That's probably a fair middle
02:09 <Tarkisflux >Thanks for the opinion DracoDei
02:10 <Tarkisflux >I really wish there was a simple way to do Neutralize the Holy Bane
02:10 <Tarkisflux >Actually, the simple version (whcih I read last) isn't bad
02:11 <DracoDei >Oh, OK.
02:11 <DracoDei >How bad is the
02:11 <Tarkisflux >I don't see myself using the director's cut at all, or any other group I've ever played with
02:11 <DracoDei >"directors cut" version?
02:11 <DracoDei >Ok, so pretty bad.
02:12 <Tarkisflux >Which isn't to say that it's bad, it's just really complicated and most people cut that out in the name of "moving on" in my experience.
02:12 <Tarkisflux >It looked like a lot of fun to write though
02:13 <DracoDei >Yeah, I tend to imagine interesting things in my head, and then make the mechanics rigorously reflect that. Based on my past experiences, I included the "Simple Version" from the start this time around (first time I did that I think, in the past it was only after people complained).
02:13 <Tarkisflux >Eh, for reference, most groups I've played with have been playing since the mid 90s and started on 2e before avoiding becoming grognards and moving on to 3e. There may be a bit more willingness to handwave weird rules things in my circles than in general.
02:14 <DracoDei >"a lot of fun to write"? As in you think I had much fun creating it?
02:14 <Tarkisflux >Ah, if there's a history of people asking for the simple version then I'd probably just use that.
02:14 <Tarkisflux >Yes
02:14 <Tarkisflux >Fun to think through. An entertaining mental exercise.
02:14 <DracoDei >I can't leave out the complex version. It wouldn't be "true to my art".
02:14 <Tarkisflux >Fair enough. Can't argue aesthetics much.
02:15 <DracoDei >I can however do two versions.
02:16 <DracoDei >Is "Recovery" the sort of rule you would omit in your own games as well?
02:16 <Tarkisflux >I'm not sure
02:16 <Tarkisflux >Was just thinking about it
02:17 <Tarkisflux >I'm having a hard time coming up with a time when I'd deal exactly 1 point of damage to them
02:18 <Tarkisflux >Other than intentionally, to leave them as traps for people to pick up
02:18 <DracoDei >Splash damage from holy water (if that is possible under the simple version).
02:18 <Tarkisflux >Ah
02:19 <DracoDei >Or a desperate wizard or low-strength rogue.
02:19 <DracoDei >And they are already undead.
02:19 <DracoDei >They can "play dead" perfectly well without having taken any damage I should think.
02:19 <Tarkisflux >yes
02:20 <DracoDei >So "leaving them as traps" doesn't add up to me.
02:20 <DracoDei >Especially since the wounds slowly healing would be visible to a sharp-eyed observer.
02:20 <Tarkisflux >Yeah
02:20 <DracoDei >Plus it only takes 3 rounds for them to heal that point of damage, which isn't a large window of opportunity.
02:20 <DracoDei >Right...
02:21 <Tarkisflux >Though if you wanted to leave them as traps, you can throw them instead of arrows (based on your chakram comments) or drop them like Tribbles from overhead compartments.
02:21 <Tarkisflux >But that's more of a traditional trap
02:21 <DracoDei >Yes.
02:21 <Tarkisflux >Anyway
02:21 <DracoDei >Oh, you mean like "poison dart trap" except with unliving ammo?
02:22 <Tarkisflux >Why do you wan them to continue on when the others don't anyway?
02:22 <Tarkisflux >Yes
02:22 <DracoDei >You men the "Recovery" thing?
02:22 <Tarkisflux >Yeah. Why not make it a universal trait of the livers?
02:24 <DracoDei >Because, for once, I was trying to keep things simple, and the others have (or can have) enough hitpoints that the regen can do something anyway in theory.
02:24 <Tarkisflux >well, recovery is a pretty minor thing. it gives them 1 extra hit point basically, but they're staggered when they're at it.
02:25 <Tarkisflux >I could see that being applied to all of them, if only to get more mileage out of the ability.
02:25 <DracoDei >If you look back at the very first table and read the ** footnote, you will see that I recommended applying the "Recovery" thing to the Diminutive ones if the GM doesn't roll or statistically distribute the hitpoints.
02:25 <Tarkisflux >I wouldn't ignore it on the fine ones though. It's just unlikely to come up.
02:25 <DracoDei >I suppose I could do that.
02:26 <Tarkisflux >If there's one undead organ that deserves to regenerate from almost dead, it's a liver.
02:26 <DracoDei >Precisely.
02:27 <DracoDei >Only internal organ that can really regrow missing parts.
02:27 <DracoDei >What do you think of the rules for creating them?
02:28 <Tarkisflux >Seemed reasonable.
02:29 <DracoDei >Anything else to add? I do have a specific question I want to ask, but only after you have said everything you can think of to say about them.
02:30 <Tarkisflux >Shoot. Everything that jumped out I've brought up
02:32 <DracoDei >Ok, you will notice that the Small version comes from a Large creature, and that its poison is equivalent to the clerical spell *Poison*.
02:33 <DracoDei >Actually... let me back up.
02:33 <Tarkisflux >up to the DC anyway
02:33 <Tarkisflux >Which is lower, as discussed.
02:33 <DracoDei >Let's say that some necromancer, PC or NPC (and it might make a difference).
02:34 <DracoDei >Let's say that some necromancer, PC or NPC (and it might make a difference), decides they want to make one of these, and they aren't TOO picky about the size.
02:34 <DracoDei >How would they do it in one of the games you play?
02:34 <DracoDei >Where would they get the corpse?
02:35 <Tarkisflux >So many options.
02:36 <DracoDei >Start listing stuff. Just one or two to a line.
02:36 <Tarkisflux >They might take them from fallen foes, and toss in a random "is liver intact" percentage check for each body. They might take them out of beggars killed via the poison spell they need to make them in the first palce.
02:36 <Tarkisflux >Or orphans
02:36 <DrPlatypus >You should write notes
02:36 <DrPlatypus >using WORKFLOWY
02:36 <DrPlatypus >THE PREMIER NOTE TAKING TECHNOLOGY
02:36 <Tarkisflux >Because Necromancers aren't ageists.
02:36 <DracoDei >Ok...
02:37 <DracoDei >Try this on for size, especially at low levels.
02:37 <Tarkisflux >A creature that regenerates would be a good call
02:37 <DrPlatypus >(thisadvertismenetbroughttoyoubyfetchingplatypusin dustries.fetchingplatypusindustriesisinowayassocia tedwithadvertisedproducts)
02:38 *** DrPlatypus quit (Connection reset by peer)
02:38 <DracoDei >You drop a few ranks in Craft "Butcher", and take payment in kind for some craft checks.
02:38 <Tarkisflux >Food stuffs are a good source too
02:38 <Tarkisflux >Instead of liver and onions, you just make assault livers
02:39 <DracoDei >IE, some guy brings you X cows and you give him back butchered meat from .95*X (or whatever multiplier works) cows.
02:39 <DracoDei >Right.
02:39 <Tarkisflux >YEah
02:39 <DracoDei >For this reason I always start with the size of organ you could get from a cow and make that equal to the most applicable spell.
02:39 <DracoDei >But, the thing is, that loses a lot of the horror factor.
02:40 <DracoDei >Butchering orphans to create your army is just EVIL.
02:40 <Tarkisflux >Well, if you want to retain horror (and don't want undead Mooing) you could add a sentient qualifier to the creation
02:40 <DracoDei >Beyond the who undead minions and what you might do with them level of evil.
02:40 <DracoDei >Right.
02:40 <DracoDei >I don't.
02:41 <Tarkisflux >ok
02:41 <DracoDei >I am just kinda curious what level of play groups have their necromancers that pragmatic.
02:41 <Tarkisflux >Not mine. Not generally in theme.
02:42 <Tarkisflux >And since you also need to be level 7 or have level 5 druid friends to get this off the ground, it seems like you could do better than pragmatic.
02:42 <DracoDei >And wishing to keep a low profile/fewer peasants motivated enough to risk joining the torches and pitchforks mobs futilely trying to storm the lair.
02:42 <Tarkisflux >Unless you really wanted liver throwing discs
02:43 <DracoDei >Druids?
02:43 <Tarkisflux >Yeah. They get poison as a 3
02:43 <DracoDei >Oh, druids get Poison a level early?
02:43 DracoDei nods.
<Tarkisflux >On a personal note, I don't actually like the poison requirement. It means a necromancer specialist has to bring in a high level assassin, cleric, or druid to make these things. Which is par for the 3.x necromancer course, but isn't anything I personally like to see propagated.
02:45 <Tarkisflux >There's nothing wrong with it from standard 3.x "the cleric is a better necromancer than you" design though.
02:46 <Tarkisflux >Oh, I forgot Blackguard. You can get them to help too I guess.
02:46 <DracoDei >Should I just go ahead and shift all the CRs down one size, or is the situation more complex than that do you think?
02:46 <Tarkisflux >Really, really late.
02:46 <Tarkisflux >I think I'd shift them all down. Con poison is a pain at those levels.
02:47 <Tarkisflux >That, or revise your advice to use them alone. Mixed in with other groups of things means that you're less likely to encounter them until you can deal with it and have better saves.
02:47 <DracoDei >CR's currently go up to 4. 5 if I shift everything down.
02:48 <DracoDei >Err...?
02:48 <DracoDei >Let me check that.
02:48 <DracoDei >"Use them alone or mixed in with other mindless undead." <-That is what it says.
02:48 <Tarkisflux >Recommending striking the "alone" part if you keep current CRs
02:50 <DracoDei >Maybe an "If alone, use only the larger ones, since the smaller ones will be disproportionately difficult to cure someone of the damage if encountered at CR appropriate levels."
02:50 <Tarkisflux >That works pretty well actually
02:51 <DracoDei >The point wasn't that the party would have any hope of curing them faster than the heal skill-boosted recovery rates for ability damage, but rather that the damage was low enough that it was an acceptable load to deal with while the damage was recovering.
02:51 <Tarkisflux >2d8 Con, DC 12 is pretty hardcore for CR 4, but at least by then you have delay poison and minor resto and a few other tricks.
02:51 <DracoDei >2d8 Con primary and secondary is hardcore.
02:52 <DracoDei >DC 12 is almost a joke as DCs go.
02:52 <Tarkisflux >It is a joke
02:52 *** Karrius quit (Quit: If you can't laugh at yourself, make fun of other people.)
02:52 <DracoDei >But at those levels even the "easy" DCs get failed.
02:52 <Tarkisflux >Yeah, that. And failure is bad for that oen.
02:52 <DracoDei >Even by characters with good saves and ability scores.
02:53 <DracoDei >Actually...
02:53 <DracoDei >I got a spell you might want to look at. I am NOT hungry for critique, I just honestly think you might find it interesting.
02:53 <Tarkisflux >Sure
02:53 <DracoDei >It is designed to keep poison relevant at higher levels.
02:54 Tarkisflux is intrigued
02:54 <DracoDei >An effect I will need for my "Skulking Bladders", since they are supposed to poison the king's cup, and that is stupid when the king eats *Hero's Feast* for breakfast and dinner.
02:55 <DracoDei >Or whatever.
02:56 <DracoDei >http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151376
02:58 <DracoDei >Skulking Bladders are probably going to be the last ones of the series I do, simply because they are horribly complicated while at the same time being VERY specialty purpose.
02:59 <Tarkisflux >Heh
03:00 <Tarkisflux >Spell seems pretty reasonable. Using SR to bypass blanket immunity is a good call.
03:00 <Tarkisflux >Could afford to drop the level for Druids perhaps
After looking at vipers, I decided to shift the CRs down one for all but the last two size-classes.