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Eurus
2013-01-06, 04:30 AM
Words have power -- this is a well-known concept, and can be seen in everything from the use of Draconic as the unofficial "language of magic", to Truenaming, Dark Speech, and the Power Word spells. But why should this idea be relegated to such niches? If language itself has such power, if words can shape magic and reality itself, why isn't it more obvious?

The following spread of feats and skills is designed to be accessible, in theory, to almost any character. It replaces, among other things, the Speak Language skill, and feats like Words of Creation/Dark Speech, and modifies spellcasting to some degree. It might have fluff conflicts with Truenaming, but should otherwise be comparable with most stuff.


Languages in common use:

The so-called "common tongue" is both the youngest and most widespread language in use today. It has many dialects and variations, some so far removed as to be nearly incomprehensible from each other, but all are lumped into the category of "common" by most planar linguists. These are languages born of necessity and convenience, pieced together from fragments of countless other tongues and occasionally invented wholesale. Perhaps fortunately, no mystic qualities of common speech have yet been discovered, perhaps due to its wide range of variation, constantly-changing corpus, or simple infancy. It is, however, the most useful by far for communicating with various groups.

Skill: Translation (Int)
Check: You can use context, nonverbal signals, and etymology to understand, translate, and communicate messages even in the absence of a shared language.

{table=head]Condition|DC
Parties speak different dialects of Common|10
Particularly isolated or obscure dialect|15
Translating between Common and root language like Elven or Dwarven|15
Archaic or dead language|20
Translating between two languages with distinct [br]and separate origins, like Dwarvish to Orcish|20
Extraplanar, utterly alien, or artificial (but still [br]self-consistent) language|25
Simple words and phrases only|-5
Ambiguous wording, colloquialisms, or terms with [br]no solid analogue|+5[/table]

[B]Action: Generally requires at least one minute of attempted communication. Can be attempted as a full-round action with a -10 penalty.

Try Again: Yes. You may even take 20, if both parties have the patience

Synergy: If you have 5 ranks in Diplomacy or Decipher Script, you gain a +2 bonus on Translate rolls. If you have 5 ranks in Translate, you gain a +2 bonus on Decipher Script rolls.

Special: All characters know and are fluent in at least one dialect of Common, and up to one racial tongue for each point of intelligence modifier they possess at level 1. Extraplanar and dead languages may not be "known" in this sense, which represents fluent conversational ability.

Language and Magic:

The vast majority of spells require some kind of incantation, but the exact words used aren't always consistent. There are, in a sense, many routes to the same effect. An orcish priest will use vastly different prayers than a halfling bard, even when both are casting cure light wounds. While countless variations exist for every spell, those who study the languages of power can learn to alter their magic by drawing on the unique qualities of different tongues.


Ancient tongues:

Most communities are racially diverse nowadays, and Common is used for convenience, but the older tongues still survive and see plenty of use. To the best estimates of scholars, most known racial languages -- Halfling, Orc, Goblin, Giant -- stem from one or more of about three separate root languages, believed to have both developed during the same era. Two of these theoretical "grandfather tongues" are most similar to what we think of today as Elvish and Dwarvish, perhaps for good reason, as both races possess communities known for their long lifespans and sense of tradition and would likely see less linguistic drift. The third is believed to be the ancestor of the Orcish and Goblin tongues, but is vastly different from the modern expressions of those languages. Elements of it still see use in some places, such as Orcish religious rites and ancient Hobgoblin records, and painstaking research has reconstructed most of it.

But even modern Elvish isn't identical to "old Elvish", and it's entirely possible that "old Elvish" wasn't originally developed by Elves at all (although they tend to take offense to that suggestion). But it's close enough to stir up echoes, and some scholars have pieced together what they believe to be very close to the original languages.


Feat: Earthtongue Scholar
Prerequisites: Translate or Decipher Script 6 ranks

Benefit: You have studied, and can at least approximate, the ancient roots of the Dwarvish language. You gain a +5 bonus to Decipher Script checks when working with any language related to Dwarvish, such as Gnomish and Giant. You also gain a +2 on social interactions made with most Dwarves, thanks to a better understanding of cultural context.

More importantly, you can use your mastery of this language to enhance your spellcasting. The powerful syllables and steady chants used make it easier to focus, and even lend durability to the magic itself. They tend to echo unnaturally well, and resonate even through stone walls.

Chanting a spell in this way extends its casting time to at least one full-round action, if it was less, and adds a verbal component if it didn't already possess one (or had one removed through metamagic). You gain a +4 bonus to any concentration checks made during or as a result of the casting, and any attempts to counter the effect take a -2 penalty. If the spell has a duration or casting time greater than instantaneous, you may continue chanting to prolong the bonus on concentration checks and apply a +2 bonus to the difficulty of dispelling the effect while you continue the chant.

Feat: Skytongue Scholar
Prerequisites: Translate or Decipher Script 6 ranks

Benefit: You have studied, and can at least approximate, the ancient roots of the Elvish language. You gain a +5 bonus to Decipher Script checks when working with any language related to Elvish, such as Halfling. You also gain a +2 on social interactions made with most Elves, thanks to a better understanding of cultural context.

More importantly, you can use your mastery of this language to enhance your spellcasting. Old-Elvish spells are almost sung rather than spoken, taking on an inherently melodious and beautiful quality from even the roughest voice. They can soothe or even captivate listeners.

Chanting a spell in this way extends its casting time to at least one full-round action, if it was less, and adds a verbal component if it didn't already possess one (or had one removed through metamagic). Creatures that can see and hear you cast find their attention gripped by the display, becoming fascinated for one round if they fail a Will save (equal to the spell's normal DC).

If the spell has a duration or casting time longer than instantaneous, you may continue singing to prolong the fascination, although creatures affected this way get a new save every minute. Obviously, a creature cannot be fascinated if it's currently being threatened, and any sign of hostility immediately frees it, but even creatures who make their save or can't be fascinated still take a -4 penalty to spot and listen checks as they struggle with the distraction.

Feat: Night-tongue Scholar
Prerequisites: Translate or Decipher Script 6 ranks; or 6 ranks in Knowledge: Religion and a cleric of an appropriate racial deity like Gruumsh or Maglubiyet.

Benefit: You have studied, and can at least approximate, the ancient roots of the Orcish and Goblin languages. You gain a +5 bonus to Decipher Script checks when working with such languages. You also gain a +2 on social interactions made with most orcs and goblinoids, thanks to a better understanding of cultural context.

More importantly, you can use your mastery of this language to enhance your spellcasting. Your roared or shrieked prayers and curses efficiently strike fear and revulsion into the hearts of your enemies.

Chanting a spell in this way extends its casting time to at least one full-round action, if it was less, and adds a verbal component if it didn't already possess one (or had one removed through metamagic). Enemies that can see and hear you cast are shaken for one round unless they make a Will save (DC equal to the spell's normal save).

If the spell has a duration or casting time longer than instantaneous, you may continue your vocalizations to prolong the condition. This feat will not escalate an existing fear condition past shaken.



Mystic Tongues:

There are more denizens of this world than us mere mortals, and we should not forget to note them here. For our purposes, we are mainly concerned with the faerie kingdoms, and the primaeval dragons. Both are powerfully magical creatures, able to work greater feats through their nature alone than most mortal sages could ever aspire to.

The language of the fae is said to be a closely-guarded secret, known to only a few. But those with the knack, they say, can command dumb beasts and even speak to the trees. It has great power over the natural world, although whether this power exists harmoniously or as a gross perversion is a controversy among various druidic groups.

If the language of fae is secret, the draconic tongue is legendary. Any arcanist worth the title will acknowledge the effortless mastery of magic that dragonkind has displayed for ages, and their mysterious language is surely either the source or a by-product of this power. While among dragons it serves as a perfectly functional language, most scholars are interested in it only for the power it can unleash when used in a spell.

Feat: Dragontongue Scholar

Feat: Faetongue Scholar

Work in progress.

Debihuman
2013-01-06, 06:32 AM
While I appreciate the effort, I think it would bog the game down immensely. You'd have players rolling every time they opened their mouths. Not a fan of that. If you were having them translate written texts as opposed to spoken that wouldn't be so bad.

Debby

Asmayus
2013-01-06, 08:34 AM
Very interesting concept, kudos for coming up with it :)

I think that spells cast in different languages having different effects is an excellent idea, especially since you've made it work like a simple feat that each player can remember.

It's a bit like playing a song on the dulcimer vs on a piano vs on a guitar.

My own group typically doesn't use language DC's; we take a couple of languages each and if someone can speak to a creature then we all can (via handwaved "this person is translating"). Even so, I like the idea of the dialects.

Looking forwards to seeing the rest :)

-Asmayus

Razanir
2013-01-06, 10:37 AM
My own group typically doesn't use language DC's; we take a couple of languages each and if someone can speak to a creature then we all can (via handwaved "this person is translating"). Even so, I like the idea of the dialects.

I let them do this IF they share a language. Also, I, as DM, reserve the right to revoke this ability if I'm handing out information that I don't want to be common knowledge. They can still pass it on after that, but sometimes the plot just requires two people to converse in Draconic without most of them understanding

Frathe
2013-01-06, 12:09 PM
I see Debi's point; this might be easier to deal with if it only applied to written texts, or when trying to cast spells, or speak with creatures that explicitly spoke another language. I know a dialect continuum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialect_continuum) is realistic, but people don't want to have to deal with that.

I understand why Diplomacy gives a bonus to translating speech, but I'm not sure it should apply to written language.

Eurus
2013-01-06, 04:37 PM
While I appreciate the effort, I think it would bog the game down immensely. You'd have players rolling every time they opened their mouths. Not a fan of that. If you were having them translate written texts as opposed to spoken that wouldn't be so bad.

Debby

Taking 10 is your friend! Almost everyone speaks at least some type of Common, and translating between most dialects of Common can be pulled off by taking 10. Even untrained, you can probably manage basic utilitarian stuff. And if anyone in the party with a decent int drops a few ranks in it, you can manage harder translations. Worst-case scenario, you awkwardly pantomime for twenty minutes (take 20) to figure out that the feral native lizardfolk tribe is warning you about the annual hydra mating season.

I can make that more explicit, but yeah, with even minimal effort you can basically hand-wave it unless you're dealing with very obscure or isolated communities.

Wyntonian
2013-01-06, 07:49 PM
I really like the feats. I'd kinda like to do a caster that has all of them and just polyglot all over the bad guy's faces.

Overall, I think this is a neat idea, but it has the potential to be a huge pain in the ass in actual play. Needing to dig this page up, ask the DM if Halfling is closer to Dwarven or Elven and juggle the modifiers seems like a lot of work for something that could be more or less roleplayed out.

Asmayus
2013-01-06, 09:08 PM
I let them do this IF they share a language. Also, I, as DM, reserve the right to revoke this ability if I'm handing out information that I don't want to be common knowledge. They can still pass it on after that, but sometimes the plot just requires two people to converse in Draconic without most of them understanding

I know what you mean. My group are the opposite haha, we're very team-centric when it comes to loot, exps, and world-shattering secrets.

I think the feats could easily be refined to "Goblin language = +1 to damage spells, Giant language = +1 to balance spells, elven language = +1 to healing spells" etc, and then the player just picks languages under standard rules and adds the bonus as appropiate.

It's not a huge bonus, but I think it works well under the current system, given that it's easy to build a pc that has 6 or 7 languages (or more). You could make it scale if you wanted as the player levels, and there's surely a few spells out there you could cast in several languages at once to get a few +1's.

Example being "heal my ally (in elven) and help him/her balance (in giant)"

And there's zero dice rolling involved. :smallwink:

also, it's 2 in the morning here, so sorry for any errors (logic or spelling related :P).

TuggyNE
2013-01-06, 09:42 PM
I think the feats could easily be refined to "Goblin language = +1 to damage spells, Giant language = +1 to balance spells, elven language = +1 to healing spells" etc, and then the player just picks languages under standard rules and adds the bonus as appropiate.

What in the world is a "balance spell"? (Also, if those are flat +1 bonuses to total damage/healing/whatever rolls, it will almost always be horrifically useless except when it's amazingly powerful due to an edge case.)

Eurus
2013-01-07, 01:26 AM
I was planning on doing a chart actually, heh. Halfling and maybe Sahuagin descend from Elvish, Gnomish and Giant are most related to Dwarvish, Undercommon is rooted in Orcish... most of this is basically pulled out of nowhere, but it should be fine.

Asmayus
2013-01-07, 12:39 PM
What in the world is a "balance spell"? (Also, if those are flat +1 bonuses to total damage/healing/whatever rolls, it will almost always be horrifically useless except when it's amazingly powerful due to an edge case.)

haha, sorry, its a spell to help you balance. I blame sleepy logic. Yeah, I know a +1 isn't huge but a +2 is a free feat, essentially, so I was weary of dropping that into the hands of min/maxing players. I guess a playtest would answer that issue :smalltongue:

And no update yet Eurus? C'mon! I want more awesome :smallwink:

Frathe
2013-01-07, 01:20 PM
Some thoughts:

Perform could give a bonus to pantomiming.

Diplomacy probably shouldn't help you translate scrolls and such.

Realistically, the DCs should be higher. German and English are reasonably closely related. Can you understand a German speaker? Could you accurately convey the notion of a hydra through pantomime, even given a few minutes?

TuggyNE
2013-01-08, 01:14 AM
haha, sorry, its a spell to help you balance. I blame sleepy logic. Yeah, I know a +1 isn't huge but a +2 is a free feat, essentially, so I was weary of dropping that into the hands of min/maxing players. I guess a playtest would answer that issue :smalltongue:

It's half of a free useless feat. :smalltongue:

Seriously. +1 to Balance checks is not over-powered; it's barely going to come up at all, ever. Unless you meant every (harmless) spell adds a stacking +1 to balance? Because yeah, that would be abusable to some extent, but still only a fairly small component of a truly cheesed-up skill check.

Debihuman
2013-01-08, 11:26 AM
Taking 10 is your friend! Almost everyone speaks at least some type of Common, and translating between most dialects of Common can be pulled off by taking 10. Even untrained, you can probably manage basic utilitarian stuff. And if anyone in the party with a decent int drops a few ranks in it, you can manage harder translations. Worst-case scenario, you awkwardly pantomime for twenty minutes (take 20) to figure out that the feral native lizardfolk tribe is warning you about the annual hydra mating season.

I can make that more explicit, but yeah, with even minimal effort you can basically hand-wave it unless you're dealing with very obscure or isolated communities.

Which is pretty much the language skill in the SRD. In fact, you don't even bother Taking 10 to talk at all. You just either know a language or you don't. If I want to make my player's miserable, I'll just have them walk into a silence spell. I prefer to spend less time roll-playing.


Some thoughts:

Perform could give a bonus to pantomiming.

Diplomacy probably shouldn't help you translate scrolls and such.

Realistically, the DCs should be higher. German and English are reasonably closely related. Can you understand a German speaker? Could you accurately convey the notion of a hydra through pantomime, even given a few minutes?

Technically, pantomime comes under Perform (Act) see mime, which is pantomime.

Debby