PDA

View Full Version : Help me finish this WIP base class



Azoth
2013-01-18, 07:54 PM
Mage Hunter 2.0


Man was never meant to control the powers...

Abilities: The key abilities for a Mage Hunter are Wisdom as it governs their unique abilities number of uses. Constitution for health, while they have a decent hit die more health is always welcome.

Role: Mage Hunters are competent warriors who shine beset when facing spell casters.

Background: Mage Hunters come from all walks. They may have been raised in the profession or decided to join for personal reasons.

Organization; Mage Hunters usually work in small groups hunting down spellcasters that abuse their power. The organizations have their own hierarchies and methods, but still more than a few Mage Hunters act on their own for their own reasons.

Alignment: Hunters come from all walks and types. Some hunt out of vengeance, some to maintain order, some to cause chaos, and others for the thrill of the hunt and money. Mage Hunters can be of any alignment.

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+0|+2|+2|+2| Favored Enemy (Spellcaster)+2, Nemesis, Hunter Pool

2nd|+1|+3|+3|+3| Cunning Strike

3rd|+2|+3|+3|+3| Mage Slayer

4th|+3|+4|+4|+4| Spell Imunity (1st)

5th|+3|+4|+4|+4| Force of Will, Favored Enemy +4

6th|+4|+5|+5|+5| Pierce Magical Protection

7th|+5|+5|+5|+5| Bane of My Enemies

8th|+6/+1|+6|+6|+6| Spell Imunity (2nd)

9th|+6/+1|+6|+6|+6| Pierce Magical Concealment

10th|+7/+2|+7|+7|+7| Evasion, Favored Enemy +6

11th|+8/+3|+7|+7|+7| Battle Conviction

12th|+9/+4|+8|+8|+8| Spell Imunity (3rd)

13th|+9/+4|+8|+8|+8| Spell Magnet

14th|+10/+5|+9|+9|+9| Mettle

15th|+11/+6/+1|+9|+9|+9| Spell Reflection, Favored Enemy +8

16th|+12/+7/+2|+10|+10|+10| Spell Imunity (4th)

17th|+12/+7/+2|+10|+10|+10|

18th|+13/+8/+3|+11|+11|+11|

19th|+14/+9/+4|+11|+11|+11|

20th|+15/+10/+5|+12|+12|+12| Spell Imunity (5th), Favored Enemy +10

[/table]

Starting Gold: As Ranger.
HD:d8
Skill points: 6+Int (x4 at first level)
Class Skills: The Mage Hunterís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all taken separately) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex).

Class Features:

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A Mage Hunter is profficient with all simple and martial weapons. A Mage Hunter is profficient with all armors as well as all shields (excluding tower shields).

Favored Enemy (Spell Caster) (EX): The Mage Hunter gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against arcane or divine spell casters (including those with racial spell casting. I.E. Dragons) Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such creatures. This bonus increases by +2 per 5 Mage Hunter levels.

Nemesis (EX): A Mage Hunter can sense the presence of arcane or divine spell casters within 60 feet, as well as pinpoint their exact location (distance and direction) relative to himself. Normal barriers and obstructions do not block this ability, allowing you to sense the presence and location of creatures behind doors or walls, for example. This feat does not allow you to see an invisible or hidden creature (although you can still discern its location).

Hunter Pool (SU): A Mage Hunter can channel his Willpower to manifest special powers. He can use his powers a number of times per day equal to his class level plus his Wisdom modifier (if any). Will powers can only be used if the Mage Hunter is conscious and not helpless. His Hunter Pool can be regenerated after eight hours of uninterupted rest. Starting at 1st level, the Mage Hunter also gains a +1 bonus to AC. This bonus increases by +1 at fifth level and every five class levels thereafter (+2 at 5th level, +3 at 10th level, and so on) as long as he has one Hunter Pool use remaining.

Hunter Pool Abilities:

Blocking the Flow: As a standard action a Mage Hunter can force a spellcaster within short range (25ft+5ft/2 Mage Hunter levels) to make a Will Save DC=(10+1/2 Mage Hunter level(minimum 1)+Wisdom modifier) or be unable to cast spells, use spell like abilities, or Supernatrual abilities for 1d4+1 rounds. This ability uses 2 Hunter Pool Uses.

Closing the Gap: Beginning at 2nd level a Mage Hunter may teleport (10ft+5ft per Mage Hunter level) as a swift action. He can take items or others with him up to his maximum load. Unwilling targets get a Will save to negate this ability. DC= 10 +1/2 Mage Hunter level +wis modifier. This ability uses 1 Hunter Pool use.

Shared Will: Begining at 4th level as a standard action a Mage Hunter can grant all allies within 30ft (self included) a new saving throw against an ongoing effect. A Mage Hunter can only grant 1 new type of save per use of this ability. (I.E. If two of his allies are affected by Aboleth Mucus and one is entangled, the Mage hunter can either grant his two allies a new Fort save or the ally a new Ref save with a single use of this ability.) This ability costs 1 Hunter Pool use.

Revealing Aura Beggining at 6th level as a standard action a Mage Hunter can generate an emanation centered on themself of 5ft per Mage Hunter level that negates all forms of invisibility for 1min/Mage Hunter Level.This ability costs 1 Hunter Pool Use.

Wings of Will: Beginning at 8th level a Mage Hunter can grant himself or allies the ability of flight as if under a Fly spell cast by a spellcaster of his Mage Hunter level. This ability costs 1 Hunter Pool use.

Anchoring Strike: Beginning at 10th level a Mage Hunter, can as a standard action make a single attack against an enemy. If this attack hits the subject takes damage normally and is affected by a Dimension Anchor spell as if cast by a spell caster of a level equal to the Mage Hunter's level. Spell resistance applies normally. This ability costs 2 Hunter Pool Uses.

Severing the Current:Beginning at 12th level as a free action on an attack a Mage Hunter can cause a caster to make a Fort save DC (10 + Ĺ Mage Hunter level + Wis modifier) or lose a spell from the highest level spell slot they can cast at random and take xd6 damage where x is equal to the level of the spell lost. A Mage Hunter must declare the use of this ability before the attack roll is made. Should the attack miss, then the attempt is wasted. This ability costs 2 Hunter Pool uses.

Field of Denial: Begining at 14th level a Mage Hunter learns to generate a unique tool. A mage hunter can generate a unique Antimagic Field. It can be deployed within 50ft of himself, or channeled into himself or an item in his possession. If generated at range the field requires a full round to move. Should the Mage Hunter move beyond 50ft from the field he can can not control it again until he is within 50ft of it. This field can be raised or lowered as a free action on his turn. The field lasts 1hr/Mage Hunter Level. This ability costs 4 Hunter Pool uses.

For every 2 Hunter Pool uses spent after those required to activate the ability its radius grows by 10ft.

True Sight: Begining at 16th level a Mage Hunter can grant himself or an ally the ability to see as if affected by a True Seeing spell cast by a spellcaster equal to his Mage Hunter level. This ability costs 2 Hunter Pool uses.

Blank Mind: Begining at 18th level a Mage Hunter can bestow the ability of a Mind Blank spell unto himself or other willing creatures. Its effects are the same as if cast by a spellcaster equal to the Mage Hunter's level. The ability costs 2 Hunter Pool uses.

Words of Banishment At 20th level a Mage Hunter is powerful his call can drive off creatures called for by magic. All summoned and extra planar creatures that can hear your voice (120ft unless bolstered) are subject to the effects of a Banishment spell. There is no limit on the number of creatures or their effective hit dice this spell can affect. Save DC= 20+wisdom modifier. This ability costs 5 Hunter Pool uses.



Cunning Strike: Mage Hunters are taught to rely on their wits and cunning more than brute force or speed. At 2nd level a Mage Hunter may replace his Strength or Dexterity modifier for his Wisdom modifier as a bonus to hit. He also gains wisdom modifier as a bonus on damage rolls.

Mage Slayer: The Mage Hunter gains the feat Mage Slayer without needing to meet its prerequisites as a bonus feat.

Spell Immunity (EX): A lifetime of training and fighting those who wield magic has left the Mage Hunter's body with a resistance to the effects of these enemies. Begining at 4th level a Mage Hunter is immune to spells of 1st level and lower. This is an actual immunity and not infinite spell resistance. This immunity can be lowered or raised as an immediate action. This immunity applies to the actual level of the spell being cast, and not the level of the spell slot it occupies. Metamagic can not raise a spell high enough to bypass this immunity, except through the use of Heighten Spell Metamagic. This immunity increases by 1 spell level every 4 Mage Hunter levels. (2nd level spells at 8th level, 3rd at 12th, ect.)

Force of Will (EX): A Mage Hunter adds his Wisdom modifier as a bonus to all saving throws, and no longer automatically fails a save on a natural 1.

Pierce Magical Protection: A Mage Hunter gains Pierce Magical Protection as a bonus feat, even if he does not meat the prerequisites. For him this attack can also be made with ranged or thrown weapons.

Bane of My Enemies (EX): Any weapon a Mage Hunter weilds is treated as having the Mage Bane property. This property applies to both Arcane and Divine spellcasters.

Pierce Magical Concealment: A Mage Hunter gains Pierce Magical Concealment as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites.

Evasion: As Rogue ability, except it functions in any armor as long as the Mage Hunter is not carrying more than a light load.

Battle Conviction (EX): Beginning at 11th level a Mage Hunter adds his Wisdom modifier to his AC (if positive) regardless of armor worn.

Spell Magnet (EX): Once per round per ally within 30ft, a Mage Hunter may draw a spell targeted at the ally to himself. This means once per round a Mage Hunter may choose to have himself be the target of any spell or SLA targeted at an ally within 30ft.

He can do this for each ally within range of the ability. (I.E. He can change the target of a scorching ray aimed at the rogue to himself, and he can change the target of an enervation aimed at the wizard to himself. If either ally is targeted by another spell before the Mage Hunter's next turn, he can not change the target to himself again.) This ability does not affect AoE spells.

Mettle:At 14thlevel and higher, a Mage Hunter can resist magical and unusual attacks with great willpower or fortitude. If he makes a successful Will or Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Will half or Fortitude partial), he instead completely negates the effect. An unconscious or sleeping Mage Hunter does not gain the benefit of mettle.

Spell Reflection (EX):A Mage Hunter can redirect any spell targeted at him that fails to hit him, or for which he passes the save to another legal target within the spell's original range (including the caster). He can use this ability 3+Wis modifier times per day.

JeminiZero
2013-01-18, 09:39 PM
Well, the most obvious thing that this could use is evasion.

At some point you should define what a "spellcaster" is. Is it somebody who casts arcane/divine spells? Does that include Bards, Rangers and Paladins? How about creatures which cast spells like a class without any levels in it (e.g. Dragons cast as Sorcerers)? What of Creatures that only use Spell-Like Abilities? How about creatures that only use Supernatural abilities (the Beholder comes to mind). How about Psionics?

Depending on that definition, Nemesis might or might not need tweaking.

For Blocking the Flow, I would limit it to Spells and maybe SLAs. In general, only AMF should be able to shut Supernatural effects. Consider for example, that a Mage Hunter himself might be hit by this from an enemy Mage Hunter, thereby rendering himself virtually useless!

For Closing the Gap instead of saying "10ft+10ft/2 Mage Hunter levels", it might be easier to just say "10 ft + 5 ft/Mage Hunter level"

Shared Will has "allieswithin" 2 words joined together.

Revaling Aura needs clarification. Does it suppress invisibility while the mage is in it (and invisibility resumes when he leaves) or does it dispel it?

Field of Denial needs clarification. How does the AMF work when deployed 50 ft away? Is it at a fixed spot? What happens when the Hunter moves out of the 50 ft range?

You might want to state the book source for Mage Slayer and Pierce Magical Protection/Concealment.

Azoth
2013-01-18, 09:54 PM
Ok, fixed the noted typo and clarified the points mentioned.

As for Blocking the Flow: It is pretty much an exact copy of the witch hunter ability Momentary Disjunction. I just upped the duration, took away the cool down, and gave it a better scaling DC. I wanted it to be the bread and butter move for the class. A strong ability to make spell casters rely on either in place buffs or magic items. It is countered a bit by its limited use early on and at later levels targeting a strong save for any spell caster.


You said it needed Evasion, but what ability should I move to make Evasion available by an acceptable level?

Zman
2013-01-18, 10:19 PM
Ok, took me a bit to figure out what doesn't quite sit right. He is extremely focused and the majority of his use is very specific.


Ok, he's a decent skill monkey which helps. He has a good chassis, but lacks class abilities usable in a multitude of situations. I almost feel as if he should have a Poor Reflex save. And as an write this I think the class isn't a limited as an first feared.

I think an upper level Spell Reflection ability like the Occolt Slayer wouldn't be out of place to help fill that gaps.

JeminiZero
2013-01-18, 11:50 PM
Ok, he's a decent skill monkey which helps. He has a good chassis, but lacks class abilities usable in a multitude of situations. I almost feel as if he should have a Poor Reflex save. And as an write this I think the class isn't a limited as an first feared.He can shut down even SLA and Su abilities. That makes him useful against anything that isn't a pure Ex Combat Brute.


You said it needed Evasion, but what ability should I move to make Evasion available by an acceptable level?



I would say move Nemesis later on, and make it scaling. Start at 15 ft on level 2, and increase by 5 ft every even level (20 ft at L4, 25 ft at L6) capping at 60 ft at level 20.

Remove the +1d6 damage aspect of Nemesis. Instead just boost FE spellcaster (no reason to have 2 class features largely doing the same thing). I would start FE Spellcaster at +2 on level 3, and increase by +1 every odd level, capping at +10 on level 19.

This way, on odd levels, FE improves, and on even levels, Nemesis improves. And he gets a new Will Power.

On that note, you should consider including in the table the levels that he gets a new Will power. Adding that in (along with Evasion and Improved Evasion), and you have quite a bit of Class Features, and its a matter of spacing them out. You can also add new Will Powers it fill out odd levels.

And now for a piece of cosmetic note, I would call "Will Power" something else. Maybe "Hunter Power". It might get confusing at the table if you say "I use Will Power to teleport 10 ft", as it takes a while to parse that you are referring to a class feature rather than some character trait that everybody has (willpower).

Azoth
2013-01-19, 12:21 AM
Do remember that Blocking the Flow can be done only a handful of times in any given day. Even at level 1 he gets at MOST 2 shots with it. It also targets a strong save for alot of creatures that aren't EX combat brutes. At mid and high levels he would have to be investing heavily in this ONE trick to keep it relevant.

It also only functions at close range. Get more than 75ft from him at MAX and he can't even target you with it period, and that is at level 20. I'd fear a charger much earlier, and at a longer range.

I think 11 powers over 20 levels is enough. He gains one new power when a fighter would gain a feat. He also gains 4 more powers than a ninja and a pool equal to roughly double the ninja's.

toapat
2013-01-19, 01:53 AM
the guy needs spell turning, of say like, upto 1/2 class levels/round, with the ability to accept spells.

Azoth
2013-01-19, 02:43 AM
I was considering giving him a spell reflection ability and another ability to switch the target of spells cast at allies within 30ft to himself.

So, say if an Enervation was hurled at the Rogue, he could them draw it to himself and then if it missed his AC turn it back or if high enough level just take it with no effect.

Turn him into a bit more of a team player when dealing with casters.

JoshuaZ
2013-01-19, 03:08 AM
Begining at 4th level a Mage Hunter is immune to spells of 1st level and lower. This is an actual immunity and not infinite spell resistance

This is weird, although it is probably clear in most cases how this will work. A major reason that 3.0 to 3.5 changed immunity to the infinite spell resistance form is that some spells just don't make sense as being immune. For example, if one opens a pit underneath someone what does immunity entail? " Metamagic can not raise a spell high enough to bypass this immunity, except through the use of Heinten Spell Metamagic." - I think you mean heighten, and this isn't really necessary. Normal rules would imply just that.


This immunity can be lowered or raised as an immediate action.

So, I see why you could raise as an immediate action, but I having to use an immediate to lower it is just weird.



Beggining at 11th level a Mage Hunter adds his Wisdom modifier to his AC regardless of armor worn.

"Beggining" should be beginning. Also, this should probably only kick in if one has a positive wisdom modifier.


Beginning at 10th level a Mage Hunter, can as a stardard action.

"Standard".

Your table should probably include where the Favored Enemy bonus goes at 5,10,15 and 20.

A few suggestions for class features:


Occult Knowledge (ex): Unfortunately, to combat mages one must understand them, and a lifetime of combating mages gives a Hunter an intiitate understanding of magic. Starting at second level, a Mage Hunter adds half their class level to all knowledge checks concerning magic as well as to all spellcraft checks to identify spells being cast. Exactly what types of knowledge concern magic is up to the DM, but in general all Knowledge(Arcana) checks should be included. If a Mage Hunter also has the bardic knowledge ability, then they also add this bonus to bardic knowledge checks when relevant. At fifth level, they also add this bonus to Gather Information checks related to mages (such as trying to locate a specific mage or finding information about that mage).

(This ability is deliberately to give them some capability that keeps with their main goal but is useful in other situations).

Drain Magic (su): Starting at fifth level, whenever a Mage Hunter successfully deals damage to a mage, the mage must make a will save (DC half damage dealt) or lose one spell slot or prepared spell of their highest level (randomly selected). If the target has multiple spellcasting classes, they lose one for each. The Mage Hunter heals hit points corresponding to the spell slots lost. At thirteenth level, they also lose an additional 1d4 spell slots of their lowest levels that are available to lose.

Drain Magic Item(su): Many mages use magic items, as do their minions. A Mage Hunter learns to temporarily suppress these items. Starting at seventh level, whenever a Mage Hunter makes a successful melee attack, they may as a free action expend a hunter point. If they do, then the target makes a will save (DC 15 + wisdom modifier). If they fail, one item randomly selected on them is suppressed for 1 round. If the item is an item that uses charges (such as a staff or wand) the Mage Hunter may choose to drain 1d6 charges from the item.


Other ideas that I haven't quite statted out that would be useful in a way similar to Occult Knowledge:

Able to spend from hunter pool to use a supernatural ability that duplicates Detect Magic. Probably effective caster level equal to class level. Not sure when they should get this. Maybe level 1?

They should maybe get a morale bonus to attacks and saves if they've dropped a spellcaster recently. Maybe also they should get a hunter point back when they kill a mage in melee combat?

Azoth
2013-01-19, 03:53 AM
Thanks for catching the spelling errors.

I spelt out the heighten spell clause on the immunity so that even for new or neglectful players it was clear that no matter what slot you use to cast your metamagiced scorching ray from it is still a level 2 spell and will fizzle.

The true immunity was to stop things of the instantaneous creation line. No fly + orb to kill him. There are only a handful of spells I can see the immunity being an issue to. I will have to think of a way to clarify it better. I was basing it off of the principle of the Resilient Sphere line, where spells below level x can not penetrate it.

I like some of your suggested abilities, but do not feel he needs more Hunter Abilities. I am mostly concerned with class features to clear away the last few dead levels. (Granted only 2 of the 3 are actually dead.) I also feel that between Blocking the Flow, Severing the Current, and Field of Denial that he has enough abilities to say "Screw your Casting!"

Now that I am looking him over again, I am wondering if I may have overshot his intended tier a bit with all of his abilities? (Intended tier was 4-3)

JoshuaZ
2013-01-19, 09:45 AM
Now that I am looking him over again, I am wondering if I may have overshot his intended tier a bit with all of his abilities? (Intended tier was 4-3)

Probably not. The set of abilities is still pretty narrow purpose (although a few of the hunter abilities like fly put it probably in the T4 range). If you are aiming for T3 then something like the Occult Knowledge I wrote up earlier might help.

For higher level suggestions maybe something that allows them to banish summoned creatures? Also, maybe an ability that when they damage a creature connected to a mage (e.g. familiars or summoned creatures or undead under their control) some amount of damage occurs to the mage? Maybe letting them use their hunter abilities that effect mages through that connection?

Deepbluediver
2013-01-19, 02:10 PM
To help with the anti-caster feel of the class, think of a couple iconic tricks from each school of spells and invent a counter to them.
Some you have already, like Pierce Magical Concealment.

For others, consider abilities like:
Turn undead
Banish summoned creatures
Dispell echantments and transmutations
Energy resistance
etc etc etc.


Not every mage hunter has to get them all at once. For example, of you had a list of 5 or 6 abilities, they can get their choice of one every couple of levels, so that there was some individuality between builds.

Also, the class needs to be able to participate when the group is fighting things other than wizards, so maybe think of debuffs or counters to Spell-like and Supernatural abilities as well.

Azoth
2013-01-19, 04:12 PM
When not fighting spell casters they can still:
Dispel invisibiliy on foes near them
Grant allies new saves against affects on them
Grant party members flight
Short range port allies into or out of situations

I may make some PRCs for this class that specialize in taking down more specific casters. My goal for this class was to be a bit of a generic soldier trained to take down "rogue" spell casters (I.E. Ones abusing their powers). This is why alot of his abilities are geared to neutralizing common tricks. Flying, invisibility, tactical teleporting, ect.

I think countering specialists should be left to specialized hunters.

Being pretty much Wis SAD (wis to hit/damage/saves/AC) helps them out too. They can be great scouts and have the skills for it.

They do get a banishment affect as a capstone. Unlimited HD in a 120ft radius Banishment with a DC20+wis modifier. That is an endgame field clearer. I can easily see the DC being in the mid to high 30's (20wis +5levels +5 tome +6 enhancement=36wis=+13 modifier so DC 33 Will save or be banished) , while a Solar only has a +20 Will save(65% success rate of banishment).

If as the class stands you guys think it is playable 1-20, I will take suggestions for PRCs to make for it. Iconic types that you feel would would be fun or would like to see. (I.E. A PRC for taking down Blasters, one for handling summoners, one designed to take down necromancers.) I figure that if WotC designed prepackaged specialists (dread necro, warmage, beguiler) a few specialized hunters wouldn't be a bad idea.