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Deaxsa
2013-02-04, 11:47 AM
just wondering which skills people mash together in 3.5 so far i just do hide+movesilent=Stealth (because that's actually 4 skills into one) and Spot/Listen=Awareness(NOT perception: that's how good you are at reading into things, and that is Sense Motive). I've thought about Spelcraft+K.Arcana=spellcraft, but i read some stuff and i've been convinced that they are, in fact, seperate skills(even if there is a of of overlap).
anyways, looking for more suggestions, or just information on what people think. also, i kind of want to stick to the whole 'nobody in their right mind trains one and not the other' as is the case with stealth and awareness.

Grinner
2013-02-04, 12:02 PM
Climb + Jump + Swim = Athletics
Balance + Tumble = Acrobatics
Appraise can be subsumed into Knowledge as a skill usage.
Search can be subsumed into Awareness as a skill usage.


Some of these are better than others, but as a matter of practicality, I'd use all of them. After all, have you ever made an Appraise-focused Rogue?

Answerer
2013-02-04, 12:53 PM
Some potential combinations. Intentionally going to the extreme here: 3.5 has a serious problem of having far too large a skill list. This is basically balanced around the 2+Int martial classes who otherwise have every reason to dump Int: every skill should be valuable. Rogues and Factota are probably going to throw points at just about everything if this is used as-is; that strikes me as just fine, personally.

Also, I've added the same skill under a few headings: this could be presented as an option (either-or) to the DM who is considering using these, but I actually like the idea of both skills being able to handle the same thing: that makes you able to do the same thing a couple of different ways (particularly when the headings use different ability scores).


Athletics (Str or Dex, whichever is higher)
Your skill in all things physical, basically. Great for low-Int, low-skill-point physical classes.
Balance
Climb
Escape Artist
Jump
Ride
Swim
Tumble
Deception (Cha)
Basically, tricking people. Also, being scary, because Intimidating is about more than just being scary.
Bluff
Disguise
Intimidate
Sense Motive
Sleight of Hand
Knowledge (Civilization) (Int; Trained-only)
Basically a catch-all for a bunch of the least-useful knowledges. Might be a good idea to drop The Planes though, since that and Local are both decent and might be too much at once. Note Survival and Geography can also be handled elsewhere.
Knowledge (Geography)
Knowledge (Local)
Knowledge (History)
Knowledge (Nobility & Royalty)
Profession (primarily urban stuff like scribe, etc.)
Knowledge (Fine Arts & Mechanisms) (Int; Trained-only)
Basically, knowledge of arts and crafts with a great deal of fiddly details. Makes the most sense in a campaign where an ancient civilization left behind mechanical technology that has since been lost, but can work otherwise.
Appraise
Decipher Script
Disable Device
Forgery
Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering) which takes over identifying Constructs
Speak Language, maybe
Legerdemain (Dex; Trained-only)
Basically, using your hands well. Most of these were either useless or an unnecessary trap-monkey tax.
Disable Device
Open Lock
Search
Sleight of Hand
Use Rope
Outdoorsmanship (Wis; Trained-only)
A way in which you can Be Prepared.
Handle Animal
Heal
Knowledge (Geography)
Knowledge (Nature) (but is still available separately)
Profession (non-urban stuff like hunting, tracking, farming)
Survival
Perception (Wis)
Noticing stuff. Pretty good skills together like this, but it's a shorter list than many here. Note that Gather Information and Sense Motive are also on other lists.
Gather Information
Listen
Sense Motive
Spot
Social Grace (Cha)
Basically, being a pleasant person (and using that to get what you want). Probably want to train Deception too...
Diplomacy
Gather Information
Perform
Sense Motive (maybe)
Stealth (Dex)
Only four skills, but they're pretty high-use skills. About getting in, out, and about unseen.
Climb
Hide
Move Silently
Tumble
Use Esoteric Device (Cha; Trained-only)
Only two (and a half maybe) skills, but man are they good.
Martial Lore (using Martial Scripts only)
Use Magic Device
Use Psionic Device


If all of these were used, the final skill list would look like this:

Athletics (Str or Dex)
Concentration (Con)
Craft (Int)
Deception (Cha)
Knowledge (Arcana) (Int; Trained-only)
Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int; Trained-only)
Knowledge (Civilization) (Int; Trained-only)
Knowledge (Fine Arts & Mechanisms) (Int; Trained-only)
Knowledge (Nature) (Int; Trained-only)
Knowledge (Religion) (Int; Trained-only)
Knowledge (The Planes (Int; Trained-only)
Legerdemain (Dex; Trained-only)
Outdoorsmanship (Wis; Trained-only)
Perception (Wis)
Social Grace (Cha)
Spellcraft (Int; Trained-only)
Stealth (Dex)
Use Esoteric Device (Cha)

Eighteen skills still kind of strikes me as too many, but at least a lot of the random crappy skills have been rolled into more useful skills, so people can reasonably have them, plus ultimately between four people who probably average about 5 skills each, and all of whom are likely to want e.g. Perception, it means the average party can reasonably cover the entire set (which, from a game design perspective, just makes sense).

Jormengand
2013-02-04, 02:01 PM
Stuff

Psicraft and autohypnosis?

Grod_The_Giant
2013-02-04, 02:23 PM
Psicraft and autohypnosis?

Concentration and autohypnosis.

Spot, Listen, and Search
Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft
Knowledge (Psionics) and Psicraft
Appraise and the appropriate Knowledge
Use Rope and the appropriate Profession (probably Sailor). Or maybe Survival.
Balance and Tumble
Climb, Jump, and Swim
Bluff and Disguise
Decipher Script and Speak Language (including a new usage to let you try and communicate even without a shared language)
Handle Animal and Survival
Disable Device and Open Lock
Hide and Move Silently

Jormengand
2013-02-04, 02:29 PM
Concentration and autohypnosis.

I meant "You missed these".

Answerer
2013-02-04, 03:18 PM
I meant "You missed these".
Yeah, I didn't hit Truenaming or Knowledge (Psionics) or Iaijutso Focus either. Martial Lore got mentioned in Use Esoteric Device but not included in the main list (which it should be).

Mostly those things should just end up sticking around, IMO. Autohypnosis might reasonably go under Concentration.

Grod_The_Giant
2013-02-04, 03:25 PM
I meant "You missed these".

Ah, my bad. Sorry.

Techwarrior
2013-02-04, 11:10 PM
Climb + Jump + Swim = Athletics
Balance + Tumble = Acrobatics
Appraise can be subsumed into Knowledge as a skill usage.
Search can be subsumed into Awareness as a skill usage.


Some of these are better than others, but as a matter of practicality, I'd use all of them. After all, have you ever made an Appraise-focused Rogue?

Yes, Appraise and Decipher Script are skills my Rogues tend to take as a matter of course. Being able to accurately assess value of gems/art/treasure is worth a skill to me. Maybe my DMs play money launderers differently than yours, but I need to know what things are worth. Likewise, being able to read ANY language is worth another skill to me, and it lets me use scrolls easier with UMD, a skill that Rogues can't Take 10 on.

I tend to combine skills that are parts of the same function torturer to reduce rolling. Spot/Listen, Open Locks/Disable Device, Hide/Move Silently