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View Full Version : [3.5/PF] The Kinestheurge PrC (PEACH)



Jormengand
2013-02-04, 03:25 PM
So, ever had a look at the mystic theurge? Ever wanted to be one? Well... maybe. But what do you get? You get lots of spells. Yay, spells. Well, here's a thought: what happens if we stick two martial classes together? Sneak attacking flurry of blows, anyone?

In honesty, it's fairly simple but potentially playable as-is. Thoughts?

The Kinestheurge

Requirements:
Your fifth level in at least two different classes.

Hit die: d8
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|+1|+2|+0|+0|Two spirits

2nd|+2|+3|+0|+0|

3rd|+3|+3|+1|+1|

4th|+4|+4|+1|+1|

5th|+5|+4|+1|+1|

6th|+6/+1|+5|+2|+2|

7th|+7/+2|+5|+2|+2|

8th|+8/+3|+6|+2|+2|

9th|+9/+4|+6|+3|+3|

10th|+10/+5|+7|+3|+3|[/table]

Weapon and armour proficiency:
The Kinestheurge gains no proficiency in weapons or armour.

Two spirits:
Choose two classes in which you have at least five levels. Kinestheurge levels stack with levels of both these classes for determining class features, but not the progression of spells, psionics, invocations and so forth.

Plato Play-Doh
2013-02-04, 03:55 PM
I kinda feel like I'm missing something. How does this class handle skills and HD size? It seems like the monk/rogue you mentioned would a: lose reflex and b: gain extra BAB? Why? I like the basic concept, but am a little confused regarding the execution.

Jormengand
2013-02-04, 03:58 PM
I kinda feel like I'm missing something. How does this class handle skills and HD size? It seems like the monk/rogue you mentioned would a: lose reflex and b: gain extra BAB? Why? I like the basic concept, but am a little confused regarding the execution.

I suppose that I could give it gestalt elements, but it's a prestige class. A sorc/DD gains hit die size (which I predictably missed, editing) and fortutude, but loses will. That's what PrCs do.

Plato Play-Doh
2013-02-04, 04:10 PM
Yeah, but the DD is a new form of sorcerer, whereas this is more of a mixture of two separate things. I don't see how a rogue/scout, for example, would gain fortitude but lose reflex, nor how it would somehow get better BAB.

Jormengand
2013-02-04, 04:15 PM
Yeah, but the DD is a new form of sorcerer, whereas this is more of a mixture of two separate things. I don't see how a rogue/scout, for example, would gain fortitude but lose reflex, nor how it would somehow get better BAB.

Again, any psi warrior/sorcerer who prestiged into cerebromancer would lose the nice fortitude save and mid bab. The same is true of a magus/inquisitor/theurge. I don't see how it's a problem.

Plato Play-Doh
2013-02-04, 04:23 PM
Again, any psi warrior/sorcerer who prestiged into cerebromancer would lose the nice fortitude save and mid bab. The same is true of a magus/inquisitor/theurge. I don't see how it's a problem.


Defensive Roll (Ex)

The rogue can roll with a potentially lethal blow to take less damage from it than she otherwise would. Once per day, when she would be reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by damage in combat (from a weapon or other blow, not a spell or special ability), the rogue can attempt to roll with the damage. To use this ability, the rogue must attempt a Reflex saving throw (DC = damage dealt). If the save succeeds, she takes only half damage from the blow; if it fails, she takes full damage. She must be aware of the attack and able to react to it in order to execute her defensive roll—if she is denied her Dexterity bonus to AC, she can’t use this ability. Since this effect would not normally allow a character to make a Reflex save for half damage, the rogue’s evasion ability does not apply to the defensive roll.

Oh, wait, you decided to go Kinestheurge, so you don't have a good reflex save anymore! Too bad!

Jormengand
2013-02-04, 05:00 PM
Oh, wait, you decided to go Kinestheurge, so you don't have a good reflex save anymore! Too bad!

Very well, what do YOU suggest I do?

Fortuna
2013-02-04, 05:07 PM
While I understand your design goal, I think this does a poor job of meeting it for a couple of reasons.

First, it requires fifth level in two classes. Most builds will simply never meet that requirement, particularly the martial builds that are your target audience.

Second, the BAB and saves and hit dice are, as pointed out, somewhat wonky at times.

Much as it shames me to bring up one of my myriad unfinished projects, I think this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-146980.html) is a good place to start with what you want. Rather than attempting to encompass every possible pair of classes with a single class, instead provide the tools to assemble a class for whatever you happen to be combining. For example:

Furious (Theurge archetype)

Requirements: Rage class feature, good BAB
Benefits: full BAB, progresses use of Rage, good Fortitude save

Mystic (Theurge archetype)

Requirements: Ability to cast second-level arcane spells
Benefits: Stack with one arcane spellcasting class for spellcasting purposes only, good Will save

A requirement of 'good BAB' means BAB +4, or BAB +5 if both halves require good BAB. The rest, I think, is self-explanatory.

By creating theurge archetypes for whatever classes you wish, it becomes possible to make these combination classes with neither stifling prerequisites nor too-general class features.

Plato Play-Doh
2013-02-04, 05:12 PM
Very well, what do YOU suggest I do?

First, I apologize if my previous post seemed harsh or disrespectful, as that was not the intent, though after rereading it I see that it may have come off that way. Secondly, I would personally gestalt it, though I don't know if that would work from a balance perspective any more than a rogue not benefiting fully from the class features they gain. Thus, if that wouldn't work, then I've not a clue. I'm certainly not a master of the rules, and perhaps should have formulated a counter-proposal before criticizing your work. Again, I apologize.