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View Full Version : Primitive Spell Access [3.5, Feat]



ideasmith
2013-02-04, 11:54 PM
Primitive Spell Access
Prerequisites: Access to a spell list containing at least 20 spells from the adept list. Ability to spontaneously cast from such a list.
Benefit: You treat all spells on the adept list as also belonging to each spell list with which you meet the prerequisites. Treat heal as a sixth level spell, and the other spells as the same level as they are for adepts. This does not prevent you from learning, preparing, or casting the spells at a lower level, if otherwise able to.



CHANGE LOG

February 09, 2013 Increased spell overlap needed, limited to spontaneous casting (Thank you, JoshuaZ, Lord Erebus12, WyvernLord)

JoshuaZ
2013-02-05, 12:46 AM
Primitive Spell Access
Prerequisites: Access to a spell list containing at least 5 spells from the adept list.
Benefit: You treat all spells on the adept list as also belonging to every spell list you have access to. Treat heal as a sixth level spell, and the other spells as the same level as they are for adepts. This does not prevent you from learning, preparing, or casting the spells at a lower level, if otherwise able to.

This could be quite powerful. A wizard for example now gets access to raise dead, restoration and a few other spells. A dread necromancer gets automatic access spontaneously to their entire spell list. So you've now added a bucket load of spells. This would be a major power boost for a lot of classes. This is probably too much as is. It might be ok if there were further prereqs.

LordErebus12
2013-02-05, 12:58 AM
This could be quite powerful. A wizard for example now gets access to raise dead, restoration and a few other spells. A dread necromancer gets automatic access spontaneously to their entire spell list. So you've now added a bucket load of spells. This would be a major power boost for a lot of classes. This is probably too much as is. It might be ok if there were further prereqs.

warmage just got healing, if im not mistaken.

WyvernLord
2013-02-05, 11:59 AM
warmage just got healing, if im not mistaken.

Might make them good. :smalltongue: Healers get versatility from this.
But yeah any spontaneous full list caster just got much more powerful. Not as powerful as with rainbow servant. But it's still pretty close.

Without them this feat just lets you grab off class spells. In other words something that lets wizards fulfill all the rolls. So still pretty bad.

ideasmith
2013-02-06, 12:06 AM
A dread necromancer gets automatic access spontaneously to their entire spell list. So you've now added a bucket load of spells. This would be a major power boost for a lot of classes. This is probably too much as is. It might be ok if there were further prereqs.


warmage just got healing, if im not mistaken.


Might make them good. :smalltongue: Healers get versatility from this.
But yeah any spontaneous full list caster just got much more powerful. Not as powerful as with rainbow servant. But it's still pretty close.

I am not familiar with any of these classes. Would requiring all the prerequisite spells to be 0th level rule them out?


This could be quite powerful. A wizard for example now gets access to raise dead, restoration and a few other spells.




Without them this feat just lets you grab off class spells. In other words something that lets wizards fulfill all the rolls. So still pretty bad.


Would limiting this feat to spontaneous lists help?

LordErebus12
2013-02-06, 12:18 AM
I am not familiar with any of these classes. Would requiring all the prerequisite spells to be 0th level rule them out?

what if they cost a spell slot higher to cast or even costing two slots to know?

Felyndiira
2013-02-06, 12:37 AM
I would use Arcane Disciple as a baseline to compare any new feats against. Arcane Disciple requires ranks in two skills and makes the caster MAD by having the new spells keyed off WIS, and only adds nine spells - one per level - that can only be used 1/day each.

The prerequisites for this feat aren't much harsher (it's actually pretty simple since most caster classes could duplicate 5 spells on the adept list, in comparison to requiring high WIS and skill ranks that may be cross-class). In comparison, the power that it grants is significant - it adds a number of healing spells to the arcane list with no restrictions along with other cleric spells, and especially breaks the Beguiler, DN, and Warmage (these casters have a limited spell list but can cast everything on the list, so adding to their spell list is like adding to spells known).

I would make the prerequisites harsh enough that you can only take the feat at around level 12-14 or so, or with considerable investments in prerequisite feats and skills. The adept list is not a weak list when added on top of another caster, so adding that wholesale to a Tier 1-2 casting class is a bit overpowering (although it's fine for sorcerers - and only sorcerers and its ilk - imo).

LordErebus12
2013-02-06, 03:47 AM
I would use Arcane Disciple as a baseline to compare any new feats against. Arcane Disciple requires ranks in two skills and makes the caster MAD by having the new spells keyed off WIS, and only adds nine spells - one per level - that can only be used 1/day each.

The prerequisites for this feat aren't much harsher (it's actually pretty simple since most caster classes could duplicate 5 spells on the adept list, in comparison to requiring high WIS and skill ranks that may be cross-class). In comparison, the power that it grants is significant - it adds a number of healing spells to the arcane list with no restrictions along with other cleric spells, and especially breaks the Beguiler, DN, and Warmage (these casters have a limited spell list but can cast everything on the list, so adding to their spell list is like adding to spells known).

I would make the prerequisites harsh enough that you can only take the feat at around level 12-14 or so, or with considerable investments in prerequisite feats and skills. The adept list is not a weak list when added on top of another caster, so adding that wholesale to a Tier 1-2 casting class is a bit overpowering (although it's fine for sorcerers - and only sorcerers and its ilk - imo).

Drow Warmages with this feat become stupid... better healers than the cleric, with edge adding their Int mods (plus Extra edge feat, too, if you half a brain) to all healing.

Cure Serious Wounds cast by a 8th level drow warmage with int of 22(18 base, +2 racial, 4th and 8th increase) and extra edge would heal 4d8+17 points of damage.

Edit: wait... damage... edge adds to damage only...
*relief*

Edit: Warmages... best undead slayer with cure spells...

JoshuaZ
2013-02-07, 07:02 PM
The problem in a nutshell is that this feat for a prepared caster makes them even more versatile. The main issue with both clerics and wizards is that giving time to prepare they can solve almost anything. This feat makes it more extreme.

For spontaneous casters this falls into two categories: one's like sorcerers who have limited spells known, in which case this feat isn't very helpful because they need to spend both a feat and precious spells known to benefit, or spontaneous spellcasters like the warmage and dread necromancer who automatically know most of their class list and thus get a massive power boost.

There's no class where this feat as written is a boost. Most prepared casters will get substantially stronger (it would become an almost definite take for many builds) and for spontaneous it would either be not helpful at all or insanely useful depending on the type.

sreservoir
2013-02-07, 10:04 PM
I wouldn't exactly say that's not a boost ;)

JoshuaZ
2013-02-08, 01:26 AM
I wouldn't exactly say that's not a boost ;)

Er, I meant that there's no class where it is a moderate sized boost.

ideasmith
2013-02-09, 11:34 PM
First revision up. Increased prerequisites substantially.

TuggyNE
2013-02-10, 12:40 AM
What's the intended use case of this feat? Because it seems like it's pretty abusive for anyone who could ever conceivably take it.