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AmberVael
2006-11-08, 12:31 PM
Ok, this is going to be a thread to discuss Arena rules, stats, and other such stuff.
As of this moment here are our Arena Rules:

NOTICE: YOU DO NOT HAVE TO USE THESE RULES! THESE ARE THE 'STANDARD' ARENA RULES. IF YOU AND SOMEONE ELSE FIGHT WITH OTHER RULES, THEN JUST TELL THEM TO ME BEFOREHAND SO I WILL KNOW WHAT I'M JUDGING.
-Thank you.

((CHARACTER CREATION))

1) We use 3.5 rules. I am lenient in what I allow you to do, there can be some homebrew and supplemental rules in your character, as long as they are not ridiculous. To use homebrew you must get it approved by me first.

2) All arena characters start with 312,500 XP when they are created.

3) Characters use this stat generation method-
-Point buy ONLY. We have elminated stat rolling in order to promote equality in stats. If you have a character who is already created with stat rolling, then you may wish to change them before going to the arena with them.

4) Starting gold is 2,500,000. The end. You can spend it in any way you wish.

5) All of your HD are maximized. In other words, take the highest number from your HD each level rather than rolling them.

5) Once you have finished your character, PM me the stats. I will review them and make sure everything is correct. Please do tell me what order you took your levels in, and point out anything unusual. Label things thoroughly. If you took feats/items/stuff that is not in the SRD, please send me stats for it.

((ARENA COMBAT))

6) There are two styles of combat you can have. Grudge Match and Honorable Duel.
-Grudge Matches start instantaneously. If you lose initiative, you are flat-footed.
-Honorable Duels give each combatant 5 rounds to prepare with any spells, powers, or magic items that they want. You are not flat-footed when the match begins. You cannot move from your square until the five rounds are over.

7) We use this map for our arena:
Linky (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b46/quitmeyer1892/thearena2.gif)

KEY:
-Each square is 5ft by 5ft.

-Colored squares: These are the starting areas. The challenger starts in the Red square, the defender starts in the blue square. You can start anywhere in the square.

-Big spikey circular thing in the middle: The Sarlaac pit. Or, for those who want to keep in more medieval, the Maw of Doom. Stepping in any of the squares the sarlaac touches starts a grapple check (Sarlaac has +25). Every turn while grappled, you take piercing and crushing damage, 3d6 each. After 2 full rounds of being grappled, you are sucked in and swallowed whole, taking 4d6 acid damage and 5d6 each of piercing and bludgeoning. The only way to escape is with a DC 25 climb check, which will let you escape from the digestive tract, but you're still grappled.

-Brown diamonds with red dots: Lava geysers. Every time you step in one there's a 25% chance that you take 10d6 fire damage (reflex half).

-Greenish blobs: Acid pools. 3d6 acid damage for every step through them. *

-Grey circles: Normal, boring, 5' diameter boulders. Use them for cover or for improvised weapons, or whatever else you can come up with.

-White circles with the two lines: Bunnies. Have absolutely no effect on the battle unless someone does something to them.

-Weird stick figure in the upper-left hand corner: Waldo. Oh, there he is. Basically like the bunnies, but he can be used as cover, too.

8) When posting your actions, describe exactly what you do- without resorting to technical terms. Then place all statistical parts of your post in a spoiler at the bottom of your post.

9) Battles are to the death or to surrender. If you are reduced to negative HP, feel free to freeform and say are still standing, but you MUST surrender if you choose this option.

Any questions/concerns regarding the arena should come to me, You can also use this thread for public complaints/requests/questions.

Your Arena Judge- Earin

InaVegt
2006-11-08, 01:01 PM
Daniella el Blasto will challenge Elya unless she doesn't want to fight Daniella.

AmberVael
2006-11-08, 01:03 PM
Um...
I haven't even created a character sheet for Elya, and I doubt she would accept such a challenge IC.
Sorry.

InaVegt
2006-11-08, 01:04 PM
Okay, I think I said unless she doesn't want to, Earin then?

On another note, is the thought bottle allowed, and vow of poverty?

AmberVael
2006-11-08, 01:07 PM
Are they in the SRD? No? Sorry, I don't really know what either of them are. I know some about the Vow of Poverty, and I'm thinking no on that.

As for Earin, yeah sure, why not.

InaVegt
2006-11-08, 01:11 PM
Do you have complete arcane/divine, the character kinda depends on those two sources (15 levels of a base class from arcane, 10 levels of a PRC from divine) and the function I'm thinking about of the thought bottle is paying 500 experience and your current experience total is stored inside, if you lose some that's the way to get it back.

AmberVael
2006-11-08, 01:13 PM
If you took feats/items/stuff that is not in the SRD, please send me stats for it.

Does this answer your questions?

InaVegt
2006-11-08, 01:15 PM
Okay, I'll PM it.

Lykan
2006-11-08, 02:06 PM
Damn... Looks like Lykan's not fighting in the arena anymore.

AmberVael
2006-11-08, 02:11 PM
Oh? And why is that? Did he use the VoP?

Lykan
2006-11-08, 02:22 PM
VoP?

Among the problems I can find, I've used point buy for abilities (28, with each stat starting at 8), he's level 30 (Which I guess is still negociable), used the system where LA decreases if you spend experiance (which is against the rules of this town's arena now, apperently), and I used reduced animal HD... In which I did reduce skills, feats, and all the stuff associated with reducing a creature's HD.

I just don't want to play a level 16 guy. Not only would I get my ass whooped, I just like the stats I already have...

Too bad, so sad... For me. :yuk:

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-08, 02:48 PM
http://www.sylnae.net/3eprofiler/view.php?id=43154 (ttp://www.sylnae.net/3eprofiler/view.php?id=43154)
About the non-use of EL Reduction,
It is what un-nerfs all template builds.
It allows characters that would otherwise be useless.
e.g. Minatours, to get two more levels which effectively ballances them out against the other classes, as they all ready have 6 absolutely useless HD.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm (The rules are actually pretty simple.)
Its not our fault that your character didn't take advantage of them.

Oh, and if you have non SRD stuff, then PM it to me.

BTW I have Bracers of Armour, Heavy Fortification as found in the arms and equipment guide.

AmberVael
2006-11-08, 02:50 PM
I'm sorry, but with the LA reduction, and our level, there is absolutely no balancing factor for it. Why not take a template if you can just buy it off by 25th level?
I'm sorry, but it needs a balancing factor.
Note the section it is under. Variants. I do not accept this variant. I am here to make sure thigns are kept balanced.

And if you want an explanation of any of my stats, I will give it to you when I post them.

Lykan
2006-11-08, 03:11 PM
Well, that's rather convenient for me, I guess. :annoyed:

Deadly
2006-11-08, 04:12 PM
I think a freeform arena would be a nice thing, or atleast an option for more freedom in the choice of character and rules.

Just my quick suggestion right now.

Kenyon
2006-11-08, 04:24 PM
Indeed. I have no clue how I would recreate Kenyon as an Arena-valid character.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-08, 04:31 PM
Why can't I use ELC Reduction rules?
You seem to be the only person who is against them Vael.

AmberVael
2006-11-08, 04:56 PM
Ok, this is what I am saying. I don't want you guys to take this wrong, so here is what this is.

The rules I listed are the 'Standard' rules. These are the ones I will encourage people to use, and the ones I use myself. You don't have to use these rules in your fights. If you and your opponent don't want to use them, don't. I can't force you to. If you would like me to judge, I would need a copy of the rules you agree to, however. But, as I noted, you don't even have to have me as a judge. I don't do anything but enforce the rules that are there, the ones that people choose to follow in the arena. I make sure people's math is correct, and that is it.
Unless it is otherwise noted, I will assume you want me as a judge in your battle, and that you are following 'standard' rules.

Now about my personal opinions-
I don't like the LA buy-off because it leaves no penalties under our system. I could say 'I'm a Half-dragon!' and gain alot of handy abilities and no drawbacks. It makes things unbalanced.
In a normal session, you will have lost XP and will still be behind the others, but not as much has you were before. That is fine. Here, however, you suffer no penalties at all. That is not fine.
So I got rid of that variant from my rules.

Deadly
2006-11-08, 05:05 PM
Ah... no problems then :)

AmberVael
2006-11-08, 05:06 PM
I'd be perfectly happy to see some freeform fighting. That would be cool.

Lykan
2006-11-08, 09:24 PM
I don't mean to push the issue, but I thought the point of the LA reduction was that the abilieites of the template became inferior to more current abilities over time, and thus reducing the LA would make the character less underpowered?

That's just was it says in the books...

AmberVael
2006-11-08, 09:57 PM
It is indeed, but I think that 'costless' is not a good alternative. That is what our current system would make it.

Destro_Yersul
2006-11-08, 10:01 PM
Thriss could fight here, even with his LA. He wouldn't be very good at it though, unless it was freeform. Support the Freeform Arena!

AmberVael
2006-11-08, 10:03 PM
...
You don't have to support the freeform arena. If you want to do a freeform fight, then challenge someone to a freeform fight.

Destro_Yersul
2006-11-08, 10:06 PM
My way was more dramatic... But yeah, that's basicly what I meant. If Thriss ever fights, it will most likely be freeform.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-08, 11:43 PM
Its ok. I'd be perfectly happy if any-one I went against declared themselves a half-dragon.
The trick to a good character is knowing that some stat increases wouldn't cause them to win.
Flying is useful, but easy to do as a wizard.
One element immunity I wouldn't mind about at all, but still, I don't need it,
+4 to Natural armour is pretty good, I have +3 as a Thri-Kreen.
Breathe weapon vs Boots os Swiftness (evasion) and Dex of 46. I win.
+8 strength is ok, But I plan not to be hit.
+2 Con is good. +25 Hp.
I'll stop here as to not relay any of my stratergy.

No, declare yourself as a half-dragon. I'll still win.

Where-as it will be a HUGE penaltie to me if I lose 2 levels. (ranger)

AmberVael
2006-11-08, 11:50 PM
The Half-dragon thing was merely an example, and I know how to make a good character, trust me.
But it still doesn't make getting free LA right.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-09, 03:52 AM
I get it. It feels like it comes "free."
But at the same time, my character was always going to be what is was, Arena or RP.
Taking away two character levels absolutely nerfs a Thri-Kreen Character so it makes sense to have them.

Renegade Paladin
2006-11-09, 03:54 AM
Oh. So this is why so many characters are 25th level.

Meh.

AmberVael
2006-11-09, 10:17 AM
I'm not going to argue about LA anymore. I've made my statements, and I will stand by them.

Amiria
2006-11-09, 11:07 AM
Do I have to roll my stats again if Rakhsicz enters the arena again ?

Otherwise he was completely within the rules as presented here, 23 HD +2 LA.

Of course I would chage his equipment a bit, the last battle against Mortia showed that there would have been better choices.

AmberVael
2006-11-09, 11:08 AM
How did you get your stats?

Amiria
2006-11-09, 11:17 AM
3) Characters use this stat generation method-
-4d6, reroll 1s and 2s. Drop the lowest. If you get four of the same number, add a +2 to that stat. (You still drop one of the four dice, however).

But I didn't use Invisible Castle. Th starting stats were 17,16,15,14,14,13 (not including boni from levels, manuals and tomes, and magic items).

AmberVael
2006-11-09, 11:18 AM
Thats fine. I believe you. Go ahead and use those.

Madmal
2006-11-09, 01:12 PM
I'm currently doing Rennard's sheet, i said he was a Half dragon (bronze)/Half ogre; but i'm going to have to change the half dragon template to Draconic creature; less ecl, no immunities (wich goes good with the current class combo), and somewhat more balanced skills....

Lykan
2006-11-09, 01:16 PM
Say, Earin/Vael, if we wanted to do point buy instead, how many points do you think is fair?

Y'know, for those of us with horrible skill on Invisible Castle. :tongue:

AmberVael
2006-11-09, 01:17 PM
Lol, hang on

Madmal
2006-11-09, 01:27 PM
Say, Earin/Vael, if we wanted to do point buy instead, how many points do you think is fair?

Y'know, for those of us with horrible skill on Invisible Castle. :tongue:

*raises hand*

I second that notion...

InaVegt
2006-11-09, 01:30 PM
4d4(droplowest)+6 (essentially what happens) would come to around 15 average, you need 8 points to buy a stat of 15, multiplied by 6 = 30, keep in mind I didn't calculate for 15 so it might be of.

AmberVael
2006-11-09, 01:35 PM
Um, Gez. 8 X 6 = 48.
Yeah.
Otherwise, that is what I got.
48 point buy sound good?
Oh, except that you can buy your way up to 20. It increases like normal, though, so the last two points costs 4 each.

InaVegt
2006-11-09, 01:36 PM
Must have made an error typing it into my calculator:redface:

Madmal
2006-11-09, 01:42 PM
Um, Gez. 8 X 6 = 48.
Yeah.
Otherwise, that is what I got.
48 point buy sound good?
Oh, except that you can buy your way up to 20. It increases like normal, though, so the last two points costs 4 each.

so it will be:

15 (8 points)
16 (10 points)
17 (13 points)
18 (16 points)
19 (20 points)
20 (24 points)

am i right?

InaVegt
2006-11-09, 01:43 PM
so it will be:

15 (8 points)
16 (10 points)
17 (13 points)
18 (16 points)
19 (20 points)
20 (24 points)

am i right?
Sounds about right

AmberVael
2006-11-09, 01:45 PM
Yep. That would be it.

Lykan
2006-11-09, 03:06 PM
I thought stats started at 8... Don't they? What source are you using?

I like the system, I just wanna clear this up. :tongue:

InaVegt
2006-11-09, 03:08 PM
I thought stats started at 8... Don't they? What source are you using?

I like the system, I just wanna clear this up. :tongue:
They do, it's just one for one util you reach 15.

AmberVael
2006-11-09, 03:08 PM
They do. Here is the full cost table now:
All stats start at 8.
9-1 point
10-1 point (2 total)
11-1 point (3 total)
12-1 point (4 total)
13-1 point (5 total)
14-1 point (6 total)
15-2 points (8 total)
16-2 points (10 total)
17-3 points (13 total)
18-3 points (16 total)
19-4 points (20 total)
20-4 points (24 total)

Lykan
2006-11-09, 03:09 PM
You said it would take 8 points to get to 15... So I assumed you meant they started at 7...

AmberVael
2006-11-09, 03:12 PM
She was correct. Check my post.

Lykan
2006-11-09, 03:16 PM
I'm not sure if your missing what I'm saying, or misenturpretting that you've already fixed it... I think it's the later, so I'll just roll with it.

AmberVael
2006-11-09, 03:17 PM
It does take 8 points to get to 15, even though your stat starts at 8. Its because getting that one point beyond 14 takes two points, not one, to get.

Lykan
2006-11-09, 03:18 PM
Got it.

Boy, I need to take a nap before doing anything math related. Or attention related.

:yuk:

Madmal
2006-11-09, 03:21 PM
Anyone knows of a feat to get wings?

....maybe i should ask at the Gaming section....

InaVegt
2006-11-09, 03:22 PM
Anyone knows of a feat to get wings?

....maybe i should ask at the Gaming section....
Unless you don't mind being a kobold you're out of luck.

Lykan
2006-11-09, 03:23 PM
No, But I think there's a template for it... And actually... I think there might be for sorceror bloodline stuff... Hold on...

AmberVael
2006-11-09, 03:23 PM
Anyone knows of a feat to get wings?

....maybe i should ask at the Gaming section....

Do you mind it being an epic feat? And temporary effect?

AmberVael
2006-11-09, 03:24 PM
Oh, and there is also a feat tree in the Lords of Madness books which gets you wings.
Here it is:
http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Starspawn,LoM
And here is the requisite feat:
http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Aberration_Blood,LoM

InaVegt
2006-11-09, 03:27 PM
In case you didn't catch it, in RotD there is a 1st level only feat which gives you wings, if you're a kobold. (probably not what you're looking for though, doesn't grant a fly speed)

Lykan
2006-11-09, 03:29 PM
Wait, Mal's a Druid, right?

InaVegt
2006-11-09, 03:30 PM
Wait, Mal's a Druid, right?
I think so but he's doing rennard

Madmal
2006-11-09, 04:01 PM
Yep...and since i have to ditch the Half-dragon template, the avatar and the character sheet are looking quite different....

i could also use the Favoored Soul class.....but that doesn't fit with the prestige class i want...

i'm going to class now....thanks for the help :)

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-09, 04:34 PM
I'm not going to argue about LA anymore. I've made my statements, and I will stand by them.
And I will stick with mine.
Don't stress about it. If you were going to win, +30 HP, +2 on certain saves and +2 BaB wouldn't matter that much.
Animal companion and Endurance don't do much either.
Its just that, if I take away +2 my whole character won't work the way I need it to.

I can get rid of it though if you're that desperate for me to remove it.

BTW can I see your character sheet?
Also, Also BTW: I don't think you should judge a fight that you are involved in. We need a 3rd party.
I still wat to start this fight this afternoon

Lykan
2006-11-09, 05:11 PM
Yep...and since i have to ditch the Half-dragon template, the avatar and the character sheet are looking quite different....

i could also use the Favoored Soul class.....but that doesn't fit with the prestige class i want...

You see, this is why I'm not using any of my major Town Characters... I've had plenty of humans (err... somewhat) characters who would probably do well in this situation...

Namely, Klaine (Some sort of crazy Soulknife, I guess), and Raggs (Ranger/Rogue with crazy sniping abilities)

This should be interesting... And if not them, the arena is a good way to introduce brand new characters...

Graklok
2006-11-09, 05:26 PM
Hmmm, wonder if Pun Pun (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=491801) could make an entrance....

Amiria
2006-11-09, 05:45 PM
Hmmm, wonder if Pun Pun (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=491801) could make an entrance....

This comment is very befitting for Graklok. :smalltongue:

Hmm, PM with lots of stuff sent to the Faceninja. Now waiting for feedback and looking for a worthy opponent.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-09, 11:54 PM
Can we start the fight now Vael?
I'll Create a Thread.

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-11-10, 02:58 AM
Ok, Earin, let me make the final touches on Mortia, the new and improved, and we will get this thing going...

AmberVael
2006-11-10, 02:59 AM
Kdokey.
And I have made a single change to Vael due to something I consider a rather just complaint by Thri-Kreen_DK.

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-11-10, 03:03 AM
Be back online in about 3 hours, will submit it then....

((Is this thread an attempt at becoming mayor? :) ))

AmberVael
2006-11-10, 03:17 AM
Hm? No, this is merely because we needed to get an appropriate thread for the Arena, and a well set out definition of what the standard arena rules were. It also provided an influx of new interest in it.
If the creation of this thread seems a mayor type thing to do, however, perhaps people should consider that while they elect, eh? ;)

Amiria
2006-11-10, 03:41 AM
((Is this thread an attempt at becoming mayor? :) ))

((Hey, I'm not even nominated. http://s80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/Kotzgeist/th_amiriasmiley.gif ))

To Vael/Earin: Did you find irregularities or obscurities in my PM ?

AmberVael
2006-11-10, 10:28 AM
Bleh, I haven't even had time to check it, between looking over Thri-Kreen's and trying to figure out Town stuff for my character.
I'll try and review it some time today.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-10, 07:20 PM
You're going to be hard.
I spent all night sleeping on how I can actually hit you.
I have an answer. =P
But I don't like it.

Yarram
2006-11-10, 08:54 PM
Talking of Arena fights, when can I do in Mortia?

Fenric
2006-11-10, 09:29 PM
Rules question: Does the level adjustment apply in addition to the hit-dice of the base form, or is that what you use? (In other words: Fenric, for example, as a werefox has LA of 3. A werefox has 5 HD in general. Is his ECL 33 or 38? Understanding the Fenric himself is not suitable for the arena - he's just the character I'm most familiar with.)

Yarram
2006-11-10, 09:38 PM
It applies in adition.
e.g. A minatour's ELC=8 when he has no character levels because of his 6 HD and his +2 ELC.
Thankfully, ELC reduction rules can be used to lower your ELC.

Amiria
2006-11-11, 03:00 AM
Thankfully, ELC reduction rules can be used to lower your ELC.

Can they ? I thought that Vael/Earin was very adamant about disallowing them, and with good reason since they don't impose any disadvantages in an arena fight but definitely give sundry advantages (like a half-dragon's better abilities (+8 Strength, etc.), better natural armor (+4), immunities, fly speed, breath weapon, and natural weapons).

Also, it is ECL, not ELC.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-11, 05:07 AM
Yes, but any half-decent character, i.e. mine, would be able to defeat a character that abuses those rules anyway.

Amiria
2006-11-11, 06:12 AM
Yes, but the half-decent charcter without the template that you build would be pwned by his equally half-decently build evil twin with the template.

Supposed superior character-creation capacities aren't an objective argument. One can both excel at character-building and abusing the rules.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-11, 06:28 PM
its ok.
It doesn't bother me what-soever if someone grants himself the half-dragon template for free when they go against each other.
BTW. I'm willing to duel over that Amiria. =P

I admit to abusing rules.
I am using the most broken class in the game.
eldritch knight, in a combo with 4 arms.
So I can cast 9th level spells, specifically 2- time stop and mortekeins disjunction as well as hit someone 20 times with a full attack at a +48 bonus and I still have an AC of 50.

Deadly
2006-11-11, 06:37 PM
Just a quick question. If I use point buy, you say I can go up to 20, but is that before racial adjustments? So with racial adjustment I could start out with 22?

AmberVael
2006-11-11, 06:40 PM
That is before racial adjustments, yes.
And let me just say that I am utterly 'ruled out' at the moment. Anyone wanting a freeform fight would be extremely welcome.

Seft Sirag
2006-11-11, 06:53 PM
I presume you'd still need to have stats before a freeform fight?

I'm tempted, but I have a feeling that it would take way too much time to get me set up with a suitable character, as I have no d&d knowledge whatsoever.

AmberVael
2006-11-11, 06:56 PM
Not really. As long as you know how your character fights, and what kind of limits he has, you would be fine in freeform. no stats needed.
It would be just like town fights, except scheduled.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-11, 10:51 PM
Hmm... Who else wants to fight me?

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-11-11, 11:39 PM
Hell, Ill take you on. I have two versions of Mortia, one completely by the book, the other is the Homebrew design that me and Earin came up with. I perfer to fight with the homebrew, but I want to try out the by the book one too.


[url=http://www.sylnae.net/3eprofiler/view.php?id=37141]homebrew[url]

And Earin, do you want me to fight with the homebrew, or the bythebook one?

Death, your friend the Reaper
2006-11-12, 12:25 AM
Hell, Ill take you on. I have two versions of Mortia, one completely by the book, the other is the Homebrew design that me and Earin came up with. I perfer to fight with the homebrew, but I want to try out the by the book one too.


homebrew (http://www.sylnae.net/3eprofiler/view.php?id=37141)

And Earin, do you want me to fight with the homebrew, or the bythebook one?

Foiled by the / yet again!

AmberVael
2006-11-12, 12:32 AM
I don't have a preference, Mortia.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-12, 01:37 AM
I don't like the arena map.

Having the booby-traps seems a bit pointless as noone would ever actually fall in them and if they did it would only be to sheer character stupidity, rather than actual stratergy, because any combat style that involves pushing people into a pool of acid is very flawed anyway.

I plan to create a larger arena with various different options available to the combatants.
Waldo. My god. Waldo.

AmberVael
2006-11-12, 01:47 AM
Hey, I've actually thought up a legitimate strategy that involves Waldo! And the rabbits are handy too.

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-11-12, 04:21 AM
Well, that arena was from like, almost half a year ago, before the town even started. I think a larger one would be better suited for what we do. Perhaps random traps, that the judge would know about. Make it kinda gladiator like. Perhaps chained lions and such.

An Earin, I will use the home brew. I beilive that I am ready when ever you are. Lets see if I still have it....

Thri Keen, I will also fight you, when ever you are ready to. Same with Yarram...

Amiria
2006-11-12, 04:28 AM
((So, I challenge one of the two only people who won so far in the arena. Mortia or Vael, I don't really care that much.

One question is: Should the character sheets be completely public ? That could lead to exploiting weaknesses that one character might have or building your character specifically to defeat this one opponent.

E.g., when the enemy knows from my sheet that I am immune to mind-affecting effects (like Death Urge), he would never try such an effect on me (an thus wasting some kind of action) even if it is in the standard attack procedure of his character.))

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-12, 04:29 AM
Yeah, I suppose Waldo is a lvl 100 sorceror lich and if people bump him he gets kinda angry.
I also suppose that you'd use the rabbits as ranged weapons or if you were a druid, you'd tell the rabbits to swarm your opponent =P.
It works, but it seems a bit to... designed for characters who spend the entire battle in the air.
No roof= if anyone uses a temporary affect on them-selves someone who can fly can just go up untill it goes away.
In air you can manouver around freely whereas on ground you have to waste your allready lessend speed, (at least compared to flying creatures) going around acid pools.
I plan to add interesting stuff like walls of force and to make the map 3D.
It will have a 200ft high roof, and be 500 ft long allowing more movement for those who want it.
The centre will be clear and will feature a mini-arena for all those who want a straight 50ft arena battle.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-12, 04:33 AM
Hmm... Well my character is fully completed, and I will be happy to whoop you Amiria any day.
No alterations shall be done to my character whatsoever from what I'd done straight after my fight with Vael.
(Which were some minor spell choice and item changes.)

(oh, and my standard attack program is identical no matter what opponent.
It works on any creature see.)

(I seem full of myself today don't I. I think I need more sleep.)

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-11-12, 08:23 AM
I have had my character sheet public from the first battle. I actualy enjoy it when people try to expoit my weeknesses; makes me think more. I think it makes me a better fighter. Also, most people with good characters know what there weeknesses are, and know how to work around them. I think we should keep them public.

(so much to say so little)

And Thri keen, I like the idea of a new arena, but how will you show the three dimentional nature of it? We might need an actual three D program like Auto cad for that. Im all for it, but how would we do the lay out? XYZ style? that might get kinda confusing...

Amiria
2006-11-12, 09:19 AM
http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=534 :smalltongue:


Hmm... Well my character is fully completed, and I will be happy to whoop you Amiria any day.

No, thanks.

1) I fear you like the plague.
2) I want to battle someone who already won in the arena (only Mortia and Vael so far).

Exachix
2006-11-12, 10:03 AM
Idea.

We have 2 on 2 battles.

OR even 4 on 4. Or 2 on 2 on 2. etc etc.

That would be fun.

And in that, we could have a league table too. Or something like that.

Sorry, I'm spouting ideas. Thoughts anyone?

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-13, 01:22 AM
http://www.sylnae.net/3eprofiler/view.php?id=43334
1) I fear you like the plague.

I'm hurt. Is this because I'm an ego-tistical rules lawyer/abuser? More likely the lawyer part. I wouldn't be the same as if I fought Vael again as now I've tested my character I have a strat that is legimate.

Idea.

We have 2 on 2 battles.

OR even 4 on 4. Or 2 on 2 on 2. etc etc.

That would be fun.

And in that, we could have a league table too. Or something like that.

Sorry, I'm spouting ideas. Thoughts anyone?
I like that idea alot.
You could do all that "discussion of stratergies" stuff.
My character is designed to be a single-combat fighter but fighting with others might be fun.
I'd go best with someone like Vael for those because I would be an anti-Mage, taking someone out with dispellings untill he'd trashed the fighter, or vice versa. Ottos irresistable dance followed by my opponent losing 16 constitution ant taking 200 damage while he forced the mage behind cover.
I'd rather vs him though.=P

Wait for a tick while I pull out my trusty flash-drive and show you my idea for an arena.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f350/froobyone/arena.gif

50 ft deep water, 150 ft high roof (wall of force). I thought about that alot and decided that that was the best height
1square=5ft.

Its pretty big I know, but it also has cover scattered in short intervals.
Anti-Magic feild in my opinion is a cute spell that puts more stratergy on maps for those who want it. The fields would of course be optional, as would every other thing on the map.


I think I should convert the grid to black.

Lykan
2006-11-13, 01:24 AM
Idea.

We have 2 on 2 battles.

OR even 4 on 4. Or 2 on 2 on 2. etc etc.

That would be fun.

And in that, we could have a league table too. Or something like that.

Sorry, I'm spouting ideas. Thoughts anyone?
That, plus we should have beast fights/hunts.

Hell, maybe we should have lower level characters formed for teams...

We also need more then one type of arena. If anyone agrees, I got a few in mind.

Destro_Yersul
2006-11-13, 01:27 AM
This talk of alternate arenas has me thinking of the classic "Wizard's duel." No weapons, just magic.

Lykan
2006-11-13, 01:28 AM
This talk of alternate arenas has me thinking of the classic "Wizard's duel." No weapons, just magic.
Or the exact opposite...

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-13, 03:29 AM
The problem with "the exact opposite" is that it would no longer be a case of stratergy.
It would be
a) YOU CAN'T SEE ME!!
or
b) My strength is very superior to yours.
WHACK!
It appears that you are dead!

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-13, 03:43 AM
4vs4 is too much.
If one person was away a day, the entire fight would be delayed.
I really don't like rolling for stats either as it gives people who are lucky and cheaters a large advantage over those who role badly.
If we want MEGA high stats as usually used in the Arena I would suggest a compulsary 60-70 point buy.

Instead of having 4v4 though, possibly a 1v1v1v1 would be fun, though the threat of "teaming" would be immenant.

an alternative arena would be a 40ft cube of force with a single stone pillar in the middle of each wall conecting to the centre. Every 2 rounds gravity shifts in a random direction.

Oh and one more thing. I challenge Lykan to a duel.

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-11-13, 03:47 AM
Is Yarram still around? I was supposed to fight him before the move...

Yarram
2006-11-13, 03:52 AM
Sure, I'm here.
I'm always here, I just don't often post.

I can't pull my character out now as Sylnae is playing up.

Amiria
2006-11-13, 04:20 AM
I'm hurt. Is this because I'm an ego-tistical rules lawyer/abuser? More likely the lawyer part. I wouldn't be the same as if I fought Vael again as now I've tested my character I have a strat that is legimate.

Oh, don't be. Why I fear you ? Well, not that much actually, I guess, but some things about your character confuse me. Why I don't want to fight against you now ? Well, rather my second argument, but ...

... now, is there still such a thing like an arena champion ? With more fighters and more fights it becomes a bit confusing. Should thee be some kind of qualification matches or am i still eligible since I lastet longest of all the losers in the arena ?

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-11-13, 04:37 AM
Well, As I am undefeated, and I have beeten all those that have won other fights, I would say that I still qualify as the arena champion.

Wow. That seemed egotistical...

Yarram, if you cant fight now, Im going to go with someone else. Let me know when your ready to go again.

Vael/faceninja/earin/dancingman... Ready when you are.

Amiria, if you would like a match, I would be more than happy to go for another bought. Just say when and... well. When. We know where.

I think that we should arange a battle royal style thing, like a true championship match. Perhaps ten people, two losses gets you out of the fights, and the winner gets to take me on? that could be alot of fun, but we might need more fighters. Heck. Ill open up a thread, and see where it goes.

Yarram
2006-11-13, 05:04 AM
No, Mortia I am able to fight at any time.
Except of course right now, as seemingly Sylnae.com is down.

AAAUUUUUURRRRRGGGGHH!

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-11-13, 05:10 AM
OH. Well then, lets start spreading the propaganda, huh? :) PM in the making...

AmberVael
2006-11-13, 08:33 AM
Um. Ok. Lets get this thing started (FINALLY). That way I can get it out of the way and off of my list of things to do.
I'll open up the Mortia vs. Vael thread.

Oh, the current fights list is updated, and I've added a new win / loss record.

Madmal
2006-11-13, 10:57 AM
oohhh...Mortia Vs Vael....these looks interesting...and, as always, i don't have any idea of who to support....

also, i found the Flying creature template, but it has an ECL +2...this brings forth more complications...i think i'll leave Ren in supension for now....

I like the idea for the magic duels...but i'm no counterspelling master, so i'd probably suck at them....

Lykan
2006-11-13, 12:53 PM
The problem with "the exact opposite" is that it would no longer be a case of stratergy.
It would be
a) YOU CAN'T SEE ME!!
or
b) My strength is very superior to yours.
WHACK!
It appears that you are dead!
Yeah... In RL combat, you're supposed to exploit these things. If you think it's an issue of rolling bad stats, you just use the point system. If your opponent ends up with really good stats from rolling, well... They got lucky. Good for them.

As an example of exploitation... If your Dexterity is good, put ranks in hide and move silently, get light weapons and use weapon finesse, and use armor that isn't going to inhibit your movement to much. If it's crummy, pump up your armor, choose feats which increase your HP and defensive capabilities and such.

Battles are all about exploiting your strengths and your opponents weaknesses until they die. That's how it is now, that's how it's always gonna be...

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-13, 04:40 PM
Yes battles are about exploiting your strengths and their weaknesses, but in a no-magic fight (I assume that means no items either) it is too luc based for my liking.

InaVegt
2006-11-14, 05:16 AM
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=6018

Daniella el blasto, class features left out for now, if Vael/Earin wants me to add them I will, otherwise finished.

Amiria
2006-11-14, 01:21 PM
Well, I suggest that all thos new people that didn't play in the town but now submit characters for the arena should first roleplay a bit with said characters in the town.

Especially in the first arena fight(s) the roleplaying of the opponents and the posts of the spectators where at least as important and funny as the fight itself. I don't expect a nobody who completely ignores the roleplay fun side of the arena matches to get much support from the crowd. For serious arena fights you might better start a thread in the dreary serious PbP section of the boards. :smallwink:

Oh, hmm, maybe I should go to town with Rakhsicz again to advertise himself. :smalltongue:

InaVegt
2006-11-14, 01:23 PM
Daniella el Blasto challenges Rakhsicz to a one on one arena battle.

Amiria
2006-11-14, 01:37 PM
Uh, roger, roger !

Maybe want to make the challenge in character ?

InaVegt
2006-11-14, 01:39 PM
Where's Rakhsicz now, then I can introduce Daniella at the proper spot.

Amiria
2006-11-14, 01:43 PM
Guess where ? (hint, hint, my latest posts)

InaVegt
2006-11-14, 02:44 PM
Well, Rakhsicz accepted the challenge IC and what do we do now? ((BTW, I want his sheet, Amiria has Daniella's as well))

Lord Sidereal
2006-11-14, 03:27 PM
"I, marrick, will fight anyone who dares challenge me. Who here does not fear death?" His voice slightly strained, almost as if it hurts to raise his voice.

ttp://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=529


PM me if anyoen fancies it. doesnt even have to be in the tournament, can just be a mutually DM'd scrap (invisible castle, i dont mind if you design the map, im just itching to get started)

AmberVael
2006-11-14, 03:31 PM
Cool as your post is, you'll note the little acronym out next to the side of the thread title. OOC. Out of character. ;)

Amiria
2006-11-14, 03:36 PM
Patience, young padawan. It might take weeks until you battle someone here. :smallsigh: That's just the pace here with one battle at a time. You must live with it or maybe start an arena thread to attract competitiors in the PbP section with no connection whatsoever to the town.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-14, 06:49 PM
Yeah, Marrik I will vs you.

pup3k
2006-11-15, 05:24 PM
I would like to challenge someone, anyone, before the tournament, that way I can playtest my character a little, see if my strategy works or not...

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-15, 11:51 PM
or supposing that Pup3k is more active, Yeah I'll let you playtest on me.
I need to playtest aswell.

Would you like to use the map I made? or the "official one"

Lykan
2006-11-16, 09:22 AM
Yes battles are about exploiting your strengths and their weaknesses, but in a no-magic fight (I assume that means no items either) it is too luc based for my liking.
When you get down to it, everything is luck. We're using DICE. :smalltongue:

Madmal
2006-11-16, 02:26 PM
hey...i have a doubt about skill points...do we use the maximum (like hp?) if we increase Int?

AmberVael
2006-11-16, 02:27 PM
Nope, sorry.

Madmal
2006-11-16, 02:30 PM
Nope, sorry.

so how would it be if my character buys a Tome of clear thought?
i'm mostly asking this because my character is kind of a skillmonkey....

AmberVael
2006-11-16, 02:32 PM
Depends on what level you got the Tome.

Madmal
2006-11-16, 02:36 PM
Depends on what level you got the Tome.

hmmmm...interesting....
okay...so i need to purchase that item at an especific level...

is any other item with that same escenario?

AmberVael
2006-11-16, 02:41 PM
Not that I know of.
If anyone else has a better idea of how skills/intelligence increases work, please feel free to speak up.

InaVegt
2006-11-16, 03:13 PM
You don't gain skill points retroactively, for purposes of tomes of clear thought I advice DM's not to let it raise skill points at chargen.

pup3k
2006-11-16, 04:03 PM
or supposing that Pup3k is more active, Yeah I'll let you playtest on me.
I need to playtest aswell.

Would you like to use the map I made? or the "official one"


I would prefer on the "official" since one of my strategy ideas is needing some of the things on it. Very vague I know, I'm trying not to give anything away.

Rainspattered
2006-11-16, 11:20 PM
I have several questions.
1: When rolling stats, how many times is one allowed/supposed to re-roll the ones and twos? Only once, and if any/all of them end up 1s or 2s again, tough luck? Or should we continue to re-roll them?
2: Magic-Psionic transparency is in effect, I'd imagine?
3: What happens, exactly, to a Psion Uncarnate in an anti-psionic field? Does he become corporeal or simply disappear until he comes out the other side?
4: Is it permissible to permenancy spells not on the official list of examples to be made permenant?

AmberVael
2006-11-16, 11:45 PM
1) You can never roll a 1 or a 2.
2) Yes.
3) Him being incorporeal (at 10th level, at least) is an Extraordinary ability. It is not affected by anti-magic.
4) No.

Rainspattered
2006-11-16, 11:56 PM
3) Characters use this stat generation method-
-4d6, reroll 1s and 2s. Drop the lowest. If you get four of the same number, add a +2 to that stat. (You still drop one of the four dice, however). Use Invisible castle for this, and PM me the link. Use your SN as the character name. If you do not, I will have to ask you to roll it again. And don't try and roll it over and over until you get what you want. I WILL check to see that you only made one set of rolls.
-alternatively, you can use 48 point buy, adding on two points (19 and 20) for 4 points apiece.

I know that they cannot be rolled as a final total. This line, right here, said by you, is what I'm basing this statement upon. I took it to mean I should re-roll any ones or twos that came up among those six sets of 4d6 I rolled.

As for the Psion Uncarnate question, note the description of Anti-magic field; Incorporeal undead wink out of existance. As a result of this, the Psion Uncarnate has sort of ambiguous status, due to being created after the spell was written. Is he included? Are other incorporeal creatures that are not undead (I don't believe any existed as of the writing of the spell, though I could be wrong) included? The fact that the ability isn't changed is immaterial; is the creature that is incorporeal, who happens to be a psion, removed until he leaves the field.
Although, since it cannot be perm'd, not much reason to use it on Mr. Monk-who-is-immune-to-magic.

AmberVael
2006-11-17, 12:00 AM
No, as in you keep rerolling 1's or 2's until you get a 3-6.

It says incorporeal undead, and the Psion is merely incorporeal, not undead. I would think it does not affect him.

Rainspattered
2006-11-17, 12:04 AM
I think we're talking about the same thing; I roll 4d6. I get a five, a six, and two ones. I reroll the ones. One of them is a four, one is two. I reroll the two. It is a three. I am done rerolling for that stat, correct?

Fair enough. Now to figure out some other way to avoid the broken-ness of epic casters/manifesters without having to pick spells myself. Hm. . .

AmberVael
2006-11-17, 12:05 AM
That dice rolling is correct. You might as well roll a d4 and add +2 to it rather than roll a d6.

Rainspattered
2006-11-17, 12:14 AM
Ah, well, I've already done it the other way. They should all be under Rainspattered Goodnight. Although I don't know about all the re-rolls. If not, I'll reroll the rerolls under my SN.

AmberVael
2006-11-17, 12:16 AM
Here is what you do:
You tell it to roll 6 times.
4d6.minroll(3) goes in instead of 4d6.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-17, 12:16 AM
Ok then, lets start tomorrow.
I still need to do a few tiny things to my character sheet.
(i.e. convert it from sylnae.)

AmberVael
2006-11-17, 12:18 AM
Um. No. Mortia will tell us when it starts, and we need more people before it does.
Plus, some people are still working on their characters.

Oh wait, this isn't the massive arena fight...
Doh. Ignore that.

pup3k
2006-11-17, 06:06 PM
Yeah, this is just a bout between us to test our abilities, strategies and characters in general.

Also, since I don't feel like rolling up a new character if this one should die, how about we play the first to 10% hit points is the loser?

Lord Sidereal
2006-11-17, 06:09 PM
sorry, i did miss my chance for a playtest. does anyone else fancy someone to spar up against before we begin?

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-17, 06:36 PM
No, do the whole lot.
If your character dies in the fight, then you needn't worry about rolling a new one.
Just respawn it.

pup3k
2006-11-17, 07:11 PM
Sure, why not...

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-17, 08:36 PM
sorry, i did miss my chance for a playtest. does anyone else fancy someone to spar up against before we begin?
Sure I'll fight you, I just finished my char. (hes in the arena championship thread) and I have no Idea how he will fare. And do fights occur on this forum, or is a new one made for the fight?
Edit: O, and I think you forgot to make Marrik avaliable for veiwing. The link doesnt work.

pup3k
2006-11-17, 08:59 PM
I think it may be because the "h" in "http://" is missing.

EDIT:

And, how does Marrik have such high Save DCs, as I see it, his 9th level spells should only be getting a DC of 23.
And, you can't even cast those because you don't have the requisite 19 wisdom score.

Rainspattered
2006-11-17, 09:19 PM
Marrick is adding his class leve, the spell level, and his Wisdom bonus to get Save DCs. In answer to your question; he is doing it wrong. That is how they are so high. Also, it's true, he isn't allowed ninth level spells.

pup3k
2006-11-17, 09:21 PM
Alright, I was wondering how there was any way at all that a guy with an 18 wisdom could get higher save DC than my guy 40 wisdom.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-17, 11:01 PM
its called the cloak of resistance.
And you can also make charms of lucky saves, charms or morale saves, charms of racial saves etc.

AmberVael
2006-11-17, 11:07 PM
its called the cloak of resistance.
And you can also make charms of lucky saves, charms or morale saves, charms of racial saves etc.
Spell saves DCs, TKDK, not will/reflex/fortitude saves.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-17, 11:21 PM
Oh, there are the spell focus feats, wich can raise them by +6.
You also can heighten spells.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-17, 11:34 PM
Hmmmm, well if Marrik has work to be done, then Im willing to fight anyone else who wants a practice bout'.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-18, 01:53 AM
Ok well my challenge was just acceped from Kalberath via PM. He is currently unable to post on the forums though and was wondering if we needed Vaels or Mortias permission to start. So do we? (im a little new to this as well.)

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-18, 01:58 AM
No. Just start.
Though the emporer wouldn't mind if you let him do a speach.

AmberVael
2006-11-18, 02:03 AM
Well, as Indurain is kind of on extended leave...

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-18, 02:16 AM
yeah i know but still, for future referance.

Amiria
2006-11-18, 02:50 AM
Hmm, Rakhsicz is also be available for a test match I think. I'm not so sure of him anymore now that there are so many powerful spellcasters around even though he did quite well against Mortia.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-18, 03:00 PM
I would update him if I were you.
I have the following suggestions for him:
Because he hides alot, get skin of chamelion, and ring/charm(slotless item costs x2) of chamelion, because their effects stack and you get +20 to hide.
I also recomend wounding weapons, seeing as you are a dervish (i think) and if you hit someone 10 times you will do the equivelent of +5x1hp per level. Which is about 125.

I'd also suggest attempting to grant him and item that can dispel magic, somethng that would be very funny would be swords with an anti-magic feild cast on them, As well as having a bow for ranged people, but it probably wouldn' work.
(I should soo try that)
I'll think on it more, mainly because I love non-spellcasters.

Amiria
2006-11-18, 03:21 PM
He can't (barely) afford the skin of the chameleon. And even if I change the items a bit he doesn#t really need it. He hid a lot in the battle against Mortia but that's not his primary tactic. It worked against Mortia because Mortia sucked at Listen and Spot. A good Hide-based character needs Hide in Plain Sight

He has wounding weapons but they are of no use when the target is immune to critical hits. That sucked in the battle against Mortia so I switched around and around with special abilities, now back to wounding just to force my opponent to spend money on becoming immune to critical hits again. *sigh*

An item with a good dispelling effect (caster level 20 or more) is just too expensive. A one shot item might be barely affordable but its just not worth the money since the failure chance will be probably more than 50%.

His swords are also his ranged weapons.

Don't think on it too much. I have done this already ad nauseam. A non-spellcaster can't prevail in the arena. You can't afford to become immune against everything. You can't defend yourself adequately against dispelling effects. One quickened dispelling (e.g. to dispel my soulfire armor) followed by a powerful attack spell (like split ray empowerd maximized enervation) and a non-spellcaster is toast.

Edit: A Hide In Plain Sight based non-spellcaster might work if he manages to always stay unseen. I played around with a character concept, indeed it was my secondary arena fighter: But since we can now have only one I stuck to Rakhsicz.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-18, 09:41 PM
Thats why I'm in love with Mortekeins Disjunction.
My character is based around 3 spells.
It, spell turning and time stop.

When in time stop you can cast it 3 times then prepare an action to attack 4 times.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-18, 11:57 PM
Ya, after watching the Vael vs. Mortia fight, I know that my fighter is just plain screwed. Heck, I probally wont even get a wack in against one of them.

Ya, Ill probally just fight a few practice fights, get my butt kicked in the championship and just not do the arena anymore. Im not much of a power gamer.

InaVegt
2006-11-19, 06:43 AM
Me loves Daniella el Blasto, her epic spell will kill you on average on a made save (25 negative levels average when made, 50 negative levels average when failed)And if that fails there still are her other spells (lots of spell slots to fill in on the fly, with lots of spells known)

Lord Sidereal
2006-11-19, 07:28 AM
how do i get save DCs for my spells if im doing it wrong?

Ignore it, Ive sorted the problem. How do you get such a high Wis score?

pup3k
2006-11-19, 03:32 PM
I don't remember exactly how, I know that it is quite possible, mostly with bonuses from magic items.

AmberVael
2006-11-19, 03:37 PM
Well lets see...
20 from using 8 point buy and maxing wisdom
+6 from points given at level 4,8,12,16,20,24
+1-5 from a tome,
+6, or maybe +8 or even +10/+12 from a magic item.
Racial bonus? Maybe? I guess some templates can help in that respect...
Between a combination of those, you could plausibly hit 40 wisdom.

pup3k
2006-11-19, 04:04 PM
Started with an 18 Wis, +12 from magic item, 6 stat increases and a +4 book. that's it.

EDIT:

Is there a 0 LA race with a Wis bonus?

EDIT 2:

TKDK, are you ready for our little playtest?

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-19, 05:18 PM
Does a ring of three wishes recharge after each battle? And how could a wish be used to dispell etheralness from a magic item? Would the item get a save if so? What is the save? (these are questions involving the practice match I and die die my darling are currently playing, beta server)

AmberVael
2006-11-19, 05:27 PM
Is there a 0 LA race with a Wis bonus?
Don't think so, unless you count Anthropomorphic animals.

Erm. I guess I ring of three wishes recharges.
A wish could be used to dupilcate a Greater Dispel spell.
The user of the wish would need to make a caster level check.

Amiria
2006-11-20, 05:01 PM
Thanks for the idea with the ring, Myatar Panwar.

Just a small comparison:

Ring of Three Wishes (caster level 20) = 97,950 gp

Homebrewed item of Heal 3/day (caster level 15) = 97.200 gp

So the ring is only insignificantly more expensive but can perfectly duplicate the power of the item or do lots of other stuff.

I'll definitely change my equipment a bit. The ring adds an incredible level of versatility and unpredictability to my poor non-spellcaster Rakhsicz. I'll get me a dozen. :smalltongue:

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-11-21, 06:10 AM
Im thinking thats not such a bad idea either. Would help for some of the lacking things...

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-21, 09:42 PM
Ya, after my battle with die die my darling, I will most likely give myself a ring for my non-caster.

Madmal
2006-11-21, 11:00 PM
Thanks for the idea with the ring, Myatar Panwar.

Just a small comparison:

Ring of Three Wishes (caster level 20) = 97,950 gp

Homebrewed item of Heal 3/day (caster level 15) = 97.200 gp

So the ring is only insignificantly more expensive but can perfectly duplicate the power of the item or do lots of other stuff.

I'll definitely change my equipment a bit. The ring adds an incredible level of versatility and unpredictability to my poor non-spellcaster Rakhsicz. I'll get me a dozen. :smalltongue:

It's already on my list...I'm also doing a non-spellcaster

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-22, 12:51 AM
Geniza, I'm pretty sure that epic spells have been disallowed for this contest.
They wouldn't be able to affect me with my planned strat, but they are generally considered "way overpowered"

InaVegt
2006-11-22, 08:31 AM
Geniza, I'm pretty sure that epic spells have been disallowed for this contest.
They wouldn't be able to affect me with my planned strat, but they are generally considered "way overpowered"

Epic spells have never been banned, I'm as long on the town as anyone else.

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-11-22, 06:52 PM
Yes, epic spells are allowed. We have epic characters, epic items, and epic feats, the spells go with everything else. Just make sure you can match the DC on them.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-22, 11:52 PM
We're talking about in the arena arn't we?
I was pretty dahm sure that epic spells have become "disallowed," or at least they are in the upcoming tourney, but oh well. It doesn't affect me as I don't fight epic spell users.

AmberVael
2006-11-23, 04:10 PM
Epic spells are not banned. They are, however, going to be well scrutinized before they are allowed.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-24, 12:51 AM
you know what would be a good idea?

Give people an xp limit, rather than a CR one.
That way people could do stuff like make their own items, and thus get them cheaper if they took an xp reduction, and at the same time people could do part of the LA reduction thing, but not all of it, and other complicated things.

AmberVael
2006-11-24, 12:52 AM
I've been thinking about that, actually.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-24, 01:15 AM
you could have, say 1 less xp then you would need to achieve lvl 26, but doing things, like becoming a saint would not be allowed in an attempt to raise the CR of you above 25.

Amiria
2006-11-24, 02:25 AM
Non-spellcasters / non-crafters would still benefit less (or not at all) from this extra xp. They'd need some extra balancing. Hell, they'd need some extra balancing anyway but that's a fundamental problem of D&D. :smallsigh: :smallwink:

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-24, 08:14 PM
Maybee they could swap the xp for money?
e.g. 1xp=80gp.
Generally 50 gp would be the equivelent, but I think an extra 200k would be a good equivelent for wishes and magic items.
With it you could buy 2 rings of 3 wishes, and with 24999 xp you could do about the same thing, considering your limit in spell slots and the waste of feats it would take to create items.
What do you all think?

Deadly
2006-11-25, 04:03 PM
So, I think I've decided to make Kio my arena fighter, which means I'll have to figure out her stats. I'm not sure how to handle her race (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ghaele.htm), though.

Mostly I'm unsure how many class levels I can give her.

AmberVael
2006-11-25, 04:11 PM
Errrrm.
It doesn't list her LA, so I can see how you might have a problem.
However, you have to start out as a humanoid/monstrous humanoid, so that kinda gives you another problem.

Deadly
2006-11-25, 04:15 PM
Huh, why can't I start as an outsider? Some rule I missed?

AmberVael
2006-11-25, 04:15 PM
Mortia declared it somewhere.
*shrug*
However, this only applies if you plan on taking her to his 'championship fight'

Deadly
2006-11-25, 04:17 PM
Oh... well, that ruins it a bit. I could declare that she's just an ordinary elf (as she is right now for story reasons) but I would like to keep her a Ghaele for the arena.

I don't plan to do that, so I guess that's not a problem anyway. Still, no LA is a bit of a problem.

Kalbereth
2006-11-25, 04:39 PM
I believe you misunderstood. LA is perfectly legal, it's the Outsider type that's a problem.

AmberVael
2006-11-25, 04:41 PM
Not if he doesn't plan on taking her into Mortia's championship fight. You don't have to be humanoid in the normal arena.

Deadly
2006-11-25, 04:45 PM
And the LA problem is that her race apparently doesn't have a LA listed *sigh*

AmberVael
2006-11-25, 04:46 PM
Right. Hang on- edit forthcoming.

Edit: As according to the Savage Species guide, Ghaele have LA of +10. Eek.

Kalbereth
2006-11-25, 04:48 PM
Ahhh, my bad.

Deadly
2006-11-25, 04:50 PM
Right. Hang on- edit forthcoming.

Edit: As according to the Savage Species guide, Ghaele have LA of +10. Eek.

....

Wow, I thought it was at least 14. Thanks.

InaVegt
2006-11-25, 04:52 PM
As according to every powergamer, SS is the holy munchkin bible.

AmberVael
2006-11-25, 04:52 PM
So you get 5 levels to choose from. Whoopee. :P
And Savage Species is 3.0, so it might not be entirely accurate.

Deadly
2006-11-25, 04:53 PM
??? I'm lost now , 5 levels?

AmberVael
2006-11-25, 04:54 PM
10hd+10la + 5 (x) = 25 Ecl

Deadly
2006-11-25, 04:56 PM
Hmm.... I must have misunderstood what LA is, then. That doesn't make much sense though, then she's grossly underpowered.

Perhaps I should choose another character

AmberVael
2006-11-25, 04:57 PM
Yeah, Level Adjustment is in addition to hit dice. That is why I go for simple characters with neither.

Deadly
2006-11-25, 04:58 PM
But... that gives a CR of 18, for a character that's supposed to be "level 25" (did that make sense?)

AmberVael
2006-11-25, 05:02 PM
No. That didn't make sense at all.

Kalbereth
2006-11-25, 05:03 PM
That fact is why I typically avoid the templates and Racial Hit Dice.

They suck abominably.

AmberVael
2006-11-25, 05:05 PM
Yupage.
Just to try and clear things up:
CR and ECL are entirely different.

Deadly
2006-11-25, 05:11 PM
Yupage.
Just to try and clear things up:
CR and ECL are entirely different.

I know that...

Anyway, just forget it, it just makes absolutely no sense to me.

Deadly
2006-11-25, 05:53 PM
((Sorry for double posting))

I'm going to go with my original plan then, and bring in a new character. Two small questions:

1. I can make some items up myself, as long as they are reasonable, right? I don't have to rely solely on those in the books?

2. Would you accept a Fighter variant with Reflex replacing Fortitude as good save and possibly some additional class skills replacing the first bonus feat (basically like the Thug variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug) but a slightly different skill set)?

AmberVael
2006-11-25, 05:58 PM
1) Correct. As long as you stay by the rules listed here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm) you should be fine.

2) It sounds reasonable enough.

Deadly
2006-11-25, 06:03 PM
Good, I'll dust my original arena character off then, and continue work on the details :)

gegiet
2006-11-25, 08:09 PM
man...Iria is just the type of person for the arena...I think she will be in a few arena battles...Makining sheet.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-28, 02:00 AM
That fact is why I typically avoid the templates and Racial Hit Dice.

They suck abominably.

Look at Thri-Kreen.
Deflect arrows, 40 ft speed, natural armour, and only 2hd and 2la, 1 feat, but best of all, 4 arms.

See my latest attack in my fight against Pupk3d.
You effectively get an extra 10 attacks in a round if you are a two weapon fighter, and go to 4.

Kantur
2006-11-28, 05:55 AM
I believe you misunderstood. LA is perfectly legal, it's the Outsider type that's a problem.

Would that mean, theoretically since I'm sure all the slots are filled up anyway, that Planetouched wouldn't be allowed under Mortia's rules?

Kalbereth
2006-11-28, 08:35 AM
Actually, I made that post in error. According to Mortia's description in the Championship thread, he meant only creatures that walked upright and had a generally humanoid type would be allowed. It was mainly to prevent usage of dragons, oozes, and creatures that are truly monsters.

Kantur
2006-11-28, 08:43 AM
Makes much more sense now. Thanks.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-29, 02:20 AM
Deamundus has +1 to his win/loss count.

My next mission unfolds.

AmberVael
2006-11-29, 02:24 AM
I thought that was a practice match? Those don't count.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-29, 05:35 AM
It was a match.
They all are.

AmberVael
2006-11-29, 08:06 AM
No, it was definately a practice match, and that is what pup3k seemed to think it was even at the end.
If you want it to be considered a real match take it up with him.

Madmal
2006-11-29, 11:07 AM
Well, my arena fighter's creation is going a little slow, but it's workable. no templates, a regular attack base, acceptable saving throws...

hmmm, i think i'm going to have to polish some homebrew items i drafted earlier to complement some of her strenghts...

Edit: now that see it, i may need to make use of the description part....

pup3k
2006-12-06, 06:08 PM
Are we allowed to bring mounts into the arena? Or do they need to be summoned in?

AmberVael
2006-12-06, 06:17 PM
They need to be summoned.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-12-06, 11:40 PM
Why can't we use mounts?
They take up our money, same as everything else.
I of course don't even consider mounts, but they are in no way an overpowering thing to anyone.
Quite the opposite really, because you can fall off.

pup3k
2006-12-12, 08:56 PM
For the purposes of the Honorable Challenge (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Honorable_Challenge,all) Flaw, does the fact that we're in an arena count as an explicit challenge?

EDIT:

Since the duskblade has no specific epic advancements, am I to assume that all class feature progression ends at level 20?

AmberVael
2006-12-12, 09:13 PM
Correct on both counts.

pup3k
2006-12-12, 09:16 PM
Okay, so no need to take five extra levels of duskblade. Woohoo, here comes the fighter.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-12-13, 11:43 PM
Actually, you can assume that if duskblade grants abilites that increase every couple of levels, those benifits would increase at the same rate.

AmberVael
2006-12-13, 11:46 PM
You could.
You could also assume incorrectly.

douglas
2006-12-14, 07:32 PM
No, that's exactly right.

Any class features that increase or accumulate as part of a repeated pattern also continues to increase or accumulate after 20th level at the same rate. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/basics.htm#classFeatures)

Caster level and anything that uses class level as part of a formula also continue to increase into epic.

AmberVael
2006-12-14, 09:30 PM
Actually there are a number of exceptions to that rule, but in general, that is what you go by.
However, I believe there is only one Duskblade ability that goes under that category, not including CL.
I'd still go with the fighter levels.

Amiria
2006-12-20, 03:49 PM
By the way, what about Death from Massive Damage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/injuryandDeath.htm#massiveDamage) ? It is not an optional rule but apparently nobody enforces it.

This really reduces the banning of Save-or-Die effects to absurdity because any attack - magical or not - that deals 50 or more points of damage requires a DC 15 Fortitude save => Save-or-Die.

I don't think that the banning of Save-or-Die effects is neccessary. As my character sheet shows it is quite easy to pump your saves so high that you only fail on a natural 1 (I am at +15 to all saves and you can probably even go as high as +25 without stretching your budget). And if you are afraid of rolling a natural one just carry a Luck Blade with you (or more than one).

Also, some spells - if metamagicked - deal such an obscene amount of damage that they are virtual Save-or-Die spells (like a Maximized, Empowered Disintegrate), or even No-Save-just-Die spells (like a Split Ray, Maximized Polar Ray). One can cast these spells with Arcane Thesis (PHB II) and/or Improved Spell Capacity (Epic) (or just buy an epic scroll in the case of No-Saves like Polar Ray).

AmberVael
2006-12-20, 03:51 PM
Well, Amiria, since the arena has no bans on Save-or-Die, I have nothing to say to you.
If you would like to protest the ban on it in Mortia's tournament, I will support you. I, however, have no control over that.

Amiria
2006-12-20, 04:05 PM
Yes, I would like to protest on it in Mortia's tournament.

Of course, regardless of Mortia's decision, we will continue and end our Amiria vs. Elya duel with the ban still active.

Deadly
2006-12-21, 04:52 PM
I demand freeform battles! No more rules!

Anyway, now that I have your attention... how would such a battle work? Any special things to keep in mind? Have this been discussed in detail before?

AmberVael
2006-12-21, 05:36 PM
*Pokes Ilias in the eyeballs, because I had already talked about this*

It has never been done before, and I imagine it would just work like a normal battle in town.
This might, however, make it very hard for someone to win.

Deadly
2006-12-21, 05:39 PM
*Starts to cry because his memory sucks... and his eyeballs hurt*

Where/when have you talked about this?

AmberVael
2006-12-21, 05:45 PM
...
In this thread?


I think a freeform arena would be a nice thing, or at least an option for more freedom in the choice of character and rules.

Just my quick suggestion right now.

And after I said the stuff I listed on the first page were merely the 'standard arena rules' I said specifically to you:


I'd be perfectly happy to see some freeform fighting. That would be cool.

If you mean specific rules, then I would be glad to try and think some up.

Deadly
2006-12-21, 05:49 PM
Oh, I thought you meant more detailed discussion :) I was thinking of some actual rules or guidelines to go by, yes.

I was thinking that perhaps the judge could be the one to decide if an attack succeeds or not. It was my first thought, atleast. Not sure it would be a good solution.

AmberVael
2006-12-21, 05:50 PM
Hmm....
So kinda do it like Indurain's battle?

Deadly
2006-12-21, 05:58 PM
Yes, sort of. Other than making success random I can't think of any solutions.

Rebonack
2006-12-21, 06:29 PM
Hmmm...

If I were to stat up Regiji, I think the closest thing would be a Scout/Elocater. That would be the most effective way of representing his abilities.

Some tweaking would certainly be in order, especially on the Elocater side of things.

Or I could just free-form him. I have plenty of experience with that >.>

Shujaa
2007-01-02, 04:16 PM
For purposes of spells that require "willing creatures," how are we to determine if a creature is willing? If we are to assume all creatures are unwilling, may a character pay a price of EXP or Gold to have a "willing creature" somewhere in existance?

AmberVael
2007-01-02, 05:09 PM
I assume everything in the arena, except for creatures you summon, are not willing.
If you can make find a legal way by RAW to summon/create/etc. such a creature into existance and under your control/friendly towards you, then that is acceptable. Otherwise no.

Shujaa
2007-01-02, 07:35 PM
I was referring to this, specifically: "Transport travelers. This power can lift one creature per manifester level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and power resistance (if any) applies." (from Reality Revision)

Would pulling, say, a Force Dragon from Forcetown be considered an unwilling target?

AmberVael
2007-01-02, 07:39 PM
You cannot teleport allies into the arena. That would fall under that rule. You can Summon, but not teleport.

Shujaa
2007-01-02, 07:41 PM
Ah, sorry, didn't see that.
If I teleported a creature that was not an ally, I take it that would still be illegal. I'm pretty sure it would be, but it's worth a try?

AmberVael
2007-01-02, 07:52 PM
Its illegal. Just summon or 'gate summon' your creatures.

Shujaa
2007-01-02, 07:57 PM
Those have HD limits, and are thereby useless for my purpose of calling a Neh-Thalguu or some similarly terrible creature and mindswitching with it. It was a great plan, too, alas.
Well, it was worth a try.