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View Full Version : Would like to improve Weapon Focus, need inspiration



Deepbluediver
2013-02-08, 05:55 PM
So I'd like to improve the Weapons Focus/Weapon Specialization line of feats, but I keep coming up blank on good ways to do this.

The most obvious patch is to just increase the bonuses they provide, but that's kind of boring. I'd love a way to make them more interesting and more versatile. One possibility was to attach ToB manuevers to them, but ToB already gets leaned on a lot, and I'd love to come up with something different. Also the feat(s) don't have to be chains, it would be simple enough to make it just one or two scaling feats.

So if you have any thoughts, ideas, or links to provide, let me know.


Edit: right now I'm thinking about going in 2 different directions, taking Zman's extra damage dice for one line, and LordErebus's BAB boost for the other.
And possibly combine both with extra options from Amechra's thread.

Edit2: Ok, I've written up the basic template for the bonuses that I want the feets to grant. I'm still working my way through Amechra's list. Since the bonuses are pretty good (IMO), I think I might just make one more feat, that has either Focus or Specialization as a prereq, and grants you options that you can retrain with a little effort.

If I can cut down the length of the chain(s), I'd consider that a good thing, because even if you homebrew the classes to hand out feats like candy (aka yours truely), spending 4+ feats all on one weapon is a hefty amount. And then if your weapon is Sundered or Disjunctioned or just stolen, you're up the creek without a paddle (and the creek is infested with Dire Pirahna).


Weapon Focus [Fighter]
You are especially skilled with a particular group of weapons.
Benefit: Choose one category of weapons listed here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter#TOC-Weapon-Training-Ex-). Your BAB is treated as if it where one step better when you make attacks with those weapons.
All classes that normally are one-half your level BAB (such as Wizard) instead give you BAB equal to 3/4 your level (as a Rogue). All classes that normally provide 3/4 your level BAB (such as Cleric) instead provide full BAB (as a Fighter). Class that normally provide full BAB (such as Fighter) provide that value times 1.25 (rounded down).
For example, a level 13 Fighter would have a BAB of +16 with the selected weapons. A multiclass Paladin 8/Bard 4 would have a BAB of +14. A multiclass Wizard 3/Cleric 3 would have a BAB of +5.

Special: You may select this feat multiple times, each time selecting a different category of weapons.


Weapon Specialization[Fighter]
You are especially skilled with a particular group of weapons.
Benefit: Choose one category of weapons listed here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter#TOC-Weapon-Training-Ex-). Whenever you make an attack with any of those weapons, you deal extra damage, based on the type of weapon and your BAB.


BAB
Light
One-Handed
Two-Handed


0-6

+1d3

+1d4

+1d6


7-13

+1d6

+1d8

+1d12


14-20

+1d10

+2d6

+2d8


21+

+2d6

+3d6

+3d8


Special: You may select this feat multiple times, each time selecting a different category of weapons.

Amechra
2013-02-08, 06:11 PM
Here you go. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14309736&postcount=3)

I hope you see something you like in there.

ngilop
2013-02-08, 06:15 PM
Here is what I did with weapon focus and its cousins, feel free to use it as is or make imporvement upon this.

Weapon Focus [General]
Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for purposes of this feat.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon, as well as a +1 bonus to disarm and sunder attempts.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.

A fighter may select Weapon Focus as one of his fighter bonus feats. He must have Weapon Focus with a weapon to gain the Weapon Specialization feat for that weapon.

Weapon Specialization [General]
Choose one type of weapon for which you have already selected the Weapon Focus feat. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for purposes of this feat. You deal extra damage when using this weapon.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, Weapon Focus with selected weapon, fighter level 4th, or Base Attack Bonus +6
Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus on all damage rolls you make using the selected weapon.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.

A fighter may select Weapon Specialization as one of his fighter bonus feats.


Greater Weapon Focus [General]
Choose one type of weapon for which you have already selected Weapon Focus. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for purposes of this feat.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, Weapon Focus with selected weapon, fighter level 6th, OR Base Attack Bonus +8
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon, as well as a +1 bonus to disarm and sunder attempts, these bonuses increase by an additional +1 for every 4th Base Attack Bonus. This bonus stacks with other bonuses on attack rolls, including the one from Weapon Focus.
Special: You can gain Greater Weapon Focus multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.

A fighter must have Greater Weapon Focus with a given weapon to gain the Greater Weapon Specialization feat for that weapon.

A fighter may select Greater Weapon Focus as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Greater Weapon Specialization [General]
Choose one type of weapon for which you have already selected Weapon Specialization. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for purposes of this feat.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, Greater Weapon Focus with selected weapon, Weapon Focus with selected weapon, Weapon Specialization with selected weapon, fighter level 10th or Base Attack Bonus +12
Benefit: You gain a +6 bonus plus an additional +1 for every 2 points of Base Attack you have on all damage rolls you make using the selected weapon. This bonus stacks with other bonuses on damage rolls, including the one from Weapon Specialization.
Special: You can gain Greater Weapon Specialization multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.

A fighter may select Greater Weapon Specialization as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Zman
2013-02-08, 07:25 PM
Weapon Focus: +d4 to attack

Weapon Spec: +d6 Damage

Improved Weapon Focus: +6 Attack, Reroll 1s

Improved Weapon Spec: +d8 Damage, Reroll 1s

My reasoning, the math is better, and rolling dice is fun.

peterpaulrubens
2013-02-08, 08:26 PM
How about, "any time you roll a natural 20 with a weapon for which you have Weapon Focus, and confirm the critical hit, you may make another attack at the same base attack bonus against the same target."


That could improve to "any time you confirm a critical hit" -> "any time you threaten a critical hit" etc.

LordErebus12
2013-02-08, 08:42 PM
what if weapon focus improved your bab one step with one weapon?

A wizard with weapon focus (quarterstaff) could have a bigger base attack bonus than normal, like that of the cleric, but only with one weapon.

A cleric with weapon focus (greatclub) would have a base attack like a fighter with that weapon.

Fighters get a bonus equal to 1/4th their level.

considering the massive bonus to all classes, it went from a mildly useless feat to a perfect addition to any class.

Deepbluediver
2013-02-08, 11:19 PM
Here you go. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14309736&postcount=3)

Wow, that certainly is a lot of different options. I'll need to go through them point by point, but at first glance it certainly covers the "versatility" requirement.

I'm not so certain I want individualized feats for every class, but I could see coming up with ways to combine a few of them.


Here is what I did with weapon focus and its cousins, feel free to use it as is or make imporvement upon this.

The scaling is nice. One of my biggest peeves with some of the RAW stuff is you take a feat, then you need to spend 2, 3, or 4 more feats for the Improved/Greater/Superior versions to keep it useful.

One quick question: what do you mean by "type of weapon"? Do you mean the categories of weapons described in Pathfinder? (see here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter#TOC-Weapon-Training-Ex-))


My reasoning, the math is better, and rolling dice is fun.

I DO enjoy rolling dice...


How about, "any time you roll a natural 20 with a weapon for which you have Weapon Focus, and confirm the critical hit, you may make another attack at the same base attack bonus against the same target."

Hmm...the idea is interesting, but my only concern is that with a high-crit build you might really slow combat down.


what if weapon focus improved your bab one step with one weapon?

Oooh, now THIS I like. What I really think is good about this is that it is very different from the normal flat enhancement bonuses you get.

The potential problem that jumps to mind, though, is how does it apply to multiclassing? I guess I could simply define the steps as BAB=1/2 level, BAB=full level, or BAB between 1/2 level+1 and full level-1.



These are great ideas and I invite people to keep them coming. I'll think about this more overnight and try to post some proposals for the revised feats tomorrow.

ngilop
2013-02-08, 11:29 PM
what I have for weaponf ocus ans such is verbatim the PHB rules minus the additions of scaling and sunder'disarms

So what I mean by when i say 1 type of weapons is exactly what those feats meant when they said 1 type of weapon.

I just alwasy assumed that when the feast said 1 type fo wepaon they meant one specific type of weapon as in a long sword, or war hammer. ect ect.

I do not think that the feast meant weapon groups liek what you linked for pathfdiner, if that is the case then (core) weapon focus is tons better than what everbody alwasy makes out.

Amechra
2013-02-08, 11:43 PM
My thread is entirely "weapon special abilities" as feats.

Weapon Focus is the one that gives you the equivalent of a +5 weapon... that stacks with a real +5 weapon.

nonsi
2013-02-09, 02:23 AM
Edit: right now I'm thinking about going in 2 different directions, taking Zman's extra damage dice for one line, and LordErebus's BAB boost for the other.
And possibly combine both with extra options from Amechra's thread.

Extra dice rolls are usually a bad call.

Kane0
2013-02-09, 04:31 AM
Weapon focus: the standard +1 to attack and once per day per iterative attack granted via BAB you can treat your weapon damage dice as if you rolled maximum damage

Weapon specialisation: the standard + to damage and once per day per iterative attack granted via BAB you can reroll and attack.
Edit: or alternatiely can roll the attack twice and take the best result (ala D&D next's advantage)

Midwoka
2013-02-09, 05:46 AM
What I do with Weapon Focus is make it give +1 to attack rolls with the weapon, and an additional +1 for every -5 to the BAB that the attack takes. Greater Weapon Focus does the same, and stacks with Weapon Focus. So a 20th-level Fighter with Weapon Focus gets a full-attack profile of +21/+17/+13/+9 (not counting Str or gear or anything...), and one with Greater Weapon Focus has +22/+19/+16/+13.

This is still just a passive kinda thing (and it doesn't really add the bit of fun that Zman's suggestion does), but I like it because it reduces that monstrous 15-point gap between that Fighter's first and fourth attacks. Also, it gives more to those with higher BAB, which makes sense since martial feats and PrC's keep demanding it =)

Deepbluediver
2013-02-09, 11:08 AM
Extra dice rolls are usually a bad call.

I know that making a second set of rolls can slow the game down, but really all I want to do is add more dice to the current roll. The mental math for adding up single digit numbers isn't really all that hard, IMO, even if you don't have access to a dice calculator.

Plus, I like rolling dice. :smallsmile:


what I have for weaponf ocus ans such is verbatim the PHB rules minus the additions of scaling and sunder'disarms

So what I mean by when i say 1 type of weapons is exactly what those feats meant when they said 1 type of weapon.

I do not think that the feast meant weapon groups liek what you linked for pathfdiner, if that is the case then (core) weapon focus is tons better than what everbody alwasy makes out.

Sorry if I misunderstood what you where saying then; it was late.
I decided to use the Pathfinder version partly because I AM looking to improve the feats, and because I think spending tons of feats buffing up a single weapon makes players too vulnerable to item loss.


This is still just a passive kinda thing (and it doesn't really add the bit of fun that Zman's suggestion does), but I like it because it reduces that monstrous 15-point gap between that Fighter's first and fourth attacks. Also, it gives more to those with higher BAB, which makes sense since martial feats and PrC's keep demanding it =)

Passive things aren't by themselves bad, if they are passive in an interesting way, or if they lead to more active benefits. What I did for my class fixes though was change the iterative attacks to never drop below -5 (so a high level fighter would have +20/+15/+15/+15, for the exact reasons you outlined).

LordErebus12
2013-02-09, 01:18 PM
Passive things aren't by themselves bad, if they are passive in an interesting way, or if they lead to more active benefits. What I did for my class fixes though was change the iterative attacks to never drop below -5 (so a high level fighter would have +20/+15/+15/+15, for the exact reasons you outlined).

sounds like a fighter fix, lmao
call it a 10th lvl ability?