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FreakyCheeseMan
2013-02-15, 10:49 AM
So, I'm working on a base class inspired by the polar opposite of the Vow of Poverty: The Rich Guy.

The Rich Guy would have no spellcasting, no direct combat abilities and poor BAB. The purpose of the Rich Guy is twofold: Getting money, and Spending money. Magic items make up The Rich Guy's only direct contribution to combat, but unlike the Artificer, he gets no special abilities towards their use - apart from having UMD as a class skill.

Instead, the Rich Guy contributes through hiring minions, buying rare supplies and "Creative solutions." At low levels, the Rich Guy is likely to keep a bevy of local drunks, disposable urchins and guard dogs around at all times. My mid level, the Rich Guy will have invested in criminal organizations with his own, and have pull with the local gangs or guilds. By high level, the Rich Guy will be Mayor. Ever read Catch-22? Milo Minderbinder is an epic-level Rich Guy.

Obviously, this class is intended for role-play heavy campaigns where sandbox-style play is encouraged. If the DM will be angry with the players for clearing a dungeon by purchasing potions of water breathing and a truckload of flasks of endless water, then The Rich Guy does not belong in that campaign.

Now, here's where I need help. So far I've decided that The Rich Guy will have all good saves and d10 hit dice - he has time to keep himself in shape, and knows the value of his own skin. But, past that, what abilities should I give him? Ideas I have so far are below; As I hear from the comments, I'll edit this to include new ideas.


Increased Wealth by Level.
Ability to spend gold for direct bonus to Persuasion and Gather Information checks.
Ability to find items and services as though local towns were one size larger.
Some automatic investments, with a return either by fixed time period or level.
Lower buying costs, higher selling costs.
Ability to get services & item enhancements done more quickly than usual.


For some of these, I'd appreciate help working out the mechanics; this is my first hard-boiled homebrew, and I'd rather not make it completely broken in either direction.

The Class So Far:

The Rich Guy
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
Income

1st|+0|+2|+2|+2||
10 GP

2nd|+1|+3|+3|+3||
20 GP

3rd|+1|+3|+3|+3||
30 GP

4th|+2|+4|+4|+4||
40 GP

5th|+2|+4|+4|+4|Bank Account|
50 GP

6th|+3|+5|+5|+5||
60 GP

7th|+3|+5|+5|+5||
70 GP

8th|+4|+6|+6|+6||
80 GP

9th|+4|+6|+6|+6||
90 GP

10th|+5|+7|+7|+7|Constant Access|
100 GP

11th|+5|+7|+7|+7||
110 GP

12th|+6/+1|+8|+8|+8||
120 GP

13th|+6/+1|+8|+8|+8||
130 GP

14th|+7/+2|+9|+9|+9||
140 GP

15th|+7/+2|+9|+9|+9|VIP Services|
150 GP

16th|+8/+3|+10|+10|+10||
160 GP

17th|+8/+3|+10|+10|+10||
170 GP

18th|+9/+4|+11|+11|+11||
180 GP

19th|+9/+4|+11|+11|+11||
190 GP

20th|+10/+5|+12|+12|+12||
200 GP
[/table]
Alignment: Any, although most Rich Guys tend towards neutrality and law.
Hit Die: 1d8

Class Skills:
Class Skills: Persuasion, Intimidate, Bluff, Appraise, Use Magical Device, Search, Knowledge: All, Gather Information, Hide, Listen, Profession, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Perform.
Skill Points at 1st Level: (8 + Int modifier) 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 8 + Int modifier

Income: Rich guys need riches. Starting from Level 1, the Rich Guy gains a modest daily income, resulting from minor investments or money owed. For levels 1-4, it's assumed that this money accumulates in whatever settlements the Rich Guy happens to visit. At level 5, it becomes deposited directly into his Bank Account.

Bank Account: Gold's not much good if you can't get to it. At level 5, the Rich Guy gains access to a specialized extraplanar space, capable of holding only normal, non-magical money. For 300 GP, the Rich Guy can have an access point opened in any community large enough to support one; money may be deposited to or (with permission) withdrawn from these access points. At Level 10, the Rich Guy gains access to a mobile access point that is with him at all times, freeing him from the need to reach a pre-existing point.

VIP Services: At Level 15, the Rich Guy is on the radar of a number of planar and extra-planar organizations. At any point, as a free action, the Rich Guy may contact these groups to purchase their support for a given situation. Even the consultation is expensive, however.

EDIT: I think I need to give this guy an extradimensional bank account as a class feature; investment in local businesses is gonna be a big part of his shtick, so some method for geographically diverse businesses to still pay their dues. Maybe with a flat cost to open a new "Branch" where payments to him may be deposited/withdrawn?

Edit: Suggested uses of Rich Guy Wealth

So, the big purpose of The Rich Guy is to spend money in a non-adventurer way. When most rich people want to make a change in the world, they don't do it by buying the best tools and tackling the problem themselves.

Once again, Rich Guys are NOT meant for traditional campaigns - they'd be disruptive, and either frustrating to play or aggravating to play alongside, depending on the permissiveness of the DM. Only in games where independent player projects and planning are encouraged, should Rich Guys be allowed.

Hired cohorts as mercenatires, messengers, partners in con opperations or two-legged pack mules.
Potions and wands for use either by the party or the above-listed pack mules.
Bribes to city officials, to open up new avenues of information/power for players.
Large-scale operations. Fight an army by hiring 50 commoners, giving them potions of flight and invisibilty and having them fly overhead dropping poison bombs.
Paying local mages for single-use spells (Teleportation, divination, etc)
Urban Projects: Subsidize an area of housing for members of your race/faction.
Faction Support/Influence: Fund the local kobold gangs to gain a spy network across a major city.

Grod_The_Giant
2013-02-15, 11:05 AM
I'd be very, very afraid. The only thing that approaches the brokenness of casting in 3.5 is magic items-- why do you think the Artificer is T1?

Worse, this guy's going to be very dependent on the GM for access to magic items.

sengmeng
2013-02-15, 11:10 AM
Some of this guy's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170912) abilities other than casting may be worth looking at.

FreakyCheeseMan
2013-02-15, 11:11 AM
I'd be very, very afraid. The only thing that approaches the brokenness of casting in 3.5 is magic items-- why do you think the Artificer is T1?

Worse, this guy's going to be very dependent on the GM for access to magic items.

Well, when it comes to magic items, this guy isn't as nearly good as the artificer - remember, he gets no abilities towards their use. A lot of what makes the artificer cool is that he can do special things with them, beyond just acquiring them. Ideally, The Rich Guy would be about all of the *other* applications of wealth - the ones that PCs don't normally consider, because they're focused on magic items.

Second - yeah, this is a GM dependent class. It would be insane to include it in the PBH. But, I specifically said that this would work only with a certain type of game - you know, the kind where players get their own castle, become the leaders of their own village, pick their own goals, etc. In those games, *everything* is DM dependent. If the DM has a problem with that playstyle, I think (hope) he'd ban the class outright.

Xaotiq1
2013-02-15, 11:11 AM
The Master class in the War of the Lance has a focus called Porfessional. You may want to look at that for ideas.

As a giggle, you could give them a suite of SLA's involving using jewelry and coins to produce effects. A Burning Hands-style effect, but with coins. Blinding someone by reflecting light off your rings or other jewelry. Suggestion where the DC is altered by the amount of gp spent.

Oh, the Call in a Favor of the Noble Class. That's also in a Dragonlance setting book. Maybe some kind of Insipre Competence ability. There's also the Courtier from the Rokugan setting that gets abilities that might fit nicely. Good luck to you! Oh, one last thing. I wouldn't take the Hit Die of this class above d8. d10 with 1/2 BAB just...doesn't feel right. Excelsior!

FreakyCheeseMan
2013-02-15, 11:15 AM
Oh, one last thing. I wouldn't take the Hit Die of this class above d8. d10 with 1/2 BAB just...doesn't feel right. Excelsior!

You may be right. I doubt this guy is going to get attacked a lot, anyway - he has no reason to be front-lining, and isn't a high-value target like a caster.

Amechra
2013-02-15, 11:18 AM
I built Seto Kaiba (of Screw the Rules fame) a while back.

One of the classes that I invested in was from Kingdom of Kalamar; the name is long since forgotten, but one of the class features was that you get 1000 GP each month.

Other than that, the PHB 2 has rules for businesses and Powers of Faerun has rules for upping your Leadership score by 1 for every 200gp of income you get from your business.

JCarter426
2013-02-15, 11:59 AM
I remember a class based on the idea of having so much money you throw it at people. Here we go (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13624972&postcount=3).

FreakyCheeseMan
2013-02-15, 01:01 PM
I remember a class based on the idea of having so much money you throw it at people. Here we go (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13624972&postcount=3).

Wow. That was... very silly. :P

SamBurke
2013-02-15, 01:04 PM
The problem I see is that half of this class is getting more money.

Which only facilitates the problem of: HOW DO YOU SPEND IT? I'd include a looooooong laundry list of suggestions. Even still, it's likely to be breaking.

FreakyCheeseMan
2013-02-15, 01:16 PM
The problem I see is that half of this class is getting more money.

Which only facilitates the problem of: HOW DO YOU SPEND IT? I'd include a looooooong laundry list of suggestions. Even still, it's likely to be breaking.

I'll get to work on a list of suggestions.

So, the way I see it, there are two ways that this class could be breaking - either balance breaking, or world breaking.

Balance breaking would mean that the class was so much more powerful than others, that it was unfair to the rest. I suppose this is possible (above-level magic items), but doesn't strike me as likely, especially given the lack of class features, DM ability to control items, and the fact that the artificer is so much better at magic items anyway. Remember, this guy gets no spells, no maneuvers or special attacks, poor BAB...

He could also be broken by being too weak, but I'm not as worried about that. The whole point of this class is that he thrives outside of the dungeon, and can come up with creative, non-traditional-mechanics approaches *to* dungeons. So, if he's not much use in a fight, that's kinda intended.

World breaking would mean that his presence actively disrupts the game world - compare to, say, a necromancer that constantly created wightocalypses. I'm also not going to worry too much about that. This is not a class that's supposed to fit into a traditional party or campaign; The Rich Guy belongs in campaigns where changing/breaking/remolding the world to the party's whim is what it's all about.

Merchant
2013-02-15, 02:14 PM
Apart from squillionaire throwing money around I think you should take stock of the daily allowance.

You say you don't want spell casting but can supernatural abilities be okay. I'm thinking more along mystical contracts or pulling supernatural favors due to your influence expanding beyond the material.

I think some bonuses to knowledge checks involving people of influence.

Give the rich guy contacts. Give him an influence mechanic where he can use his swagger or name to actually affect organizations and guilds. Also on top of his daily allowance allow him to take large loans or advances on the allowance once a week.

Aristocrat (pc) http://www.rpgcrossing.com/showthread.php?p=2131054
Check out the sky high limits class feature.

FreakyCheeseMan
2013-02-15, 02:26 PM
Apart from squillionaire throwing money around I think you should take stock of the daily allowance.

You say you don't want spell casting but can supernatural abilities be okay. I'm thinking more along mystical contracts or pulling supernatural favors due to your influence expanding beyond the material.

I think some bonuses to knowledge checks involving people of influence.

Give the rich guy contacts. Give him an influence mechanic where he can use his swagger or name to actually affect organizations and guilds. Also on top of his daily allowance allow him to take large loans or advances on the allowance once a week.

Supernatural abilities... maybe, if they're the right sort. I imagine it would be more that certain extraplanar parties give the character some method of rapidly contacting them for emergency services.

I'll probably include some sort of mechanism by which the rich guy gets money on a regular basis. I do want to keep the class flexible by role-play; a "Rich Guy" could be a billionaire trust-funder, but he could also be a homeless street urchin determined to game his way to the top of the financial world. I'm not going to have him function like the squillionaire, where he has an unlimited pile of money but refuses to access it.

Mechanically, I like the idea of him having some money that he can spend every day without impacting his ability to save it up, but I can't think of a good in-world justification.

Bonuses to knowledge checks, sure. Also appraise, and maybe something he can do *with* appraise. I may even say that it's possible to know about a rich guy through a Knowledge: Nobility check, for fun "Do you know who I am?" moments.

redfeline
2013-02-15, 03:13 PM
I was thinking about one of the above comments extra dimensional bank account. Lemond's secret chest or what ever that spell is that pulls up a treasure chest would be the simplest solution, but then we have a spell like ability. If you go that way I would suggest having it attached to a free item, if he loses it he can get a new one in a week for x amount but all contents of the chest may of been stolen.

A better solution, in my mind, that includes traveling income would be a mercane servant. I believe the species is listed in epic players handbook, despite being a low cr, and in manual of the planes. Basically they are a plane traveling merchant. Once a week or once a month they drop off some cash and maybe any items you ordered.

FreakyCheeseMan
2013-02-15, 03:47 PM
I was thinking about one of the above comments extra dimensional bank account. Lemond's secret chest or what ever that spell is that pulls up a treasure chest would be the simplest solution, but then we have a spell like ability. If you go that way I would suggest having it attached to a free item, if he loses it he can get a new one in a week for x amount but all contents of the chest may of been stolen.

A better solution, in my mind, that includes traveling income would be a mercane servant. I believe the species is listed in epic players handbook, despite being a low cr, and in manual of the planes. Basically they are a plane traveling merchant. Once a week or once a month they drop off some cash and maybe any items you ordered.

Huh. So.. at some level, an extraplanar group becomes impressed with you, and assigns a mercane servant to occasionally aid in your endeavors by collecting payments, bringing you your dues, etc?

That could work... and it could tie in with the VIP ability, as well. Once you reach a high enough level, that group lets you call in favors, but at a very steep price.

sengmeng
2013-02-15, 06:06 PM
If he stays completely mundane, I think he's just a suped-up aristocrat.

Merchant
2013-02-16, 02:52 AM
Aristocrat revised http://www.rpgcrossing.com/showthread.php?p=2131054 . The sky high limit class feature is a good representation of getting discounts and having a lot of money.

I know that there is a reputation or influence variable in dnd already but iwas thinking if you have a special class feature that allows you to use a contact to spread rumors and/or gain favor in a guild or gain +3 to influence checks for each contact you use.

Path to Riches class feature of the Treasurer base class
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13139061&postcount=17
I like the flavor based off of a specific profession but it would be neat to have a network of con men, beggars, businessmen, pickpockets,etc... Getting you additional money here AMD there.

I always wanted someone to create a mystical shopkeeper whose can appear anywhere or you have a special key that connects any door to it. That way you can gain access to items even in a dungeon.

Edit:

Never played a sandbox game before but I think phb2 talked about having businesses what if you have mercane backing these businesses. Mechanically every 2 or 3 levels you choose a bonus and eliminate a specific penalty that always apply to your weekly/monthly income.

Edit 2:

Grease the Palms: this could deal with bribing and using your money instead of your reputation. Every level your get FtP points. And when you want to bribe dome you roll a d8. Now if you have enough FtP then the bribe succeeds. Maybe make a list of extraordinary options of bribery like making someone friendly towards you but for s limited time and a set amount of GtPs.

I think using contacts in a new way through class features would ne awesome. For example use three contacts to gain a temporary cohort. This will cost money either from your daily allowance or the FtP for a week. Instead of actual contacts maybe you have a pool of resource points and a wide range of options and each option cost something different or requires s certain level to access.

EdroGrimshell
2013-02-16, 03:39 PM
How about some Vestige use? These guys seem almost exactly like the type to make contracts with inhuman beings for profit. Same with things like Planar Binding or Planar Ally. Maybe not as spells, but, as a unique class feature that functions similarly?

Merchant
2013-02-17, 02:22 AM
I'm all for the planar ally and vestige idea of course. Flavorwise you can have contact the desired alt and send them to you. Maybe make it delayed by a round or two.

I forgot to add that the d8 that is rolled will decrease due to either increase in funds, understanding the how much really needs to be spent, or simply by reputation.

Maybe start d8+1, then d6+1, etc...

Edit:

I think the income is way too low. 20th "rich" guy can only buy the lowest 2nd scrolls, three lowest minor wondrous items. Not too impressive. I would suggest looking at what the vow of poverty offers at certain levels to gauge what could be bought sold or traded for. I think that where VoP sets the character in its ways. The rich guy should be quite versatile.

Have there been any thoughts of renaming the class? I see the character as a businessman and he should be able to sell an ice cube to an ice elemental. Or better yet. Sell fire to an ice elemental.

Merchant
2013-02-24, 07:52 AM
I was thinking, what if you created a planar currency for supernatural effects. I think summoning and callings can be Orders.

Or perhaps the planar currency allows you to buy abstract things such as time and luck, destiny.

AeonsShadow
2013-03-04, 03:09 AM
Lvl 1: MONEY~!


Starting at first level, this characters wealth shows. It could be that he has a body guard/Vassel, he COULD be wearing fancy armor or weapons. or he could be just plain LOADED. At first level the Rich guy can start with one of the following: one magical weapon or armor, 2 magical non-weapon non-armor items, one level one Fighter, Knight, or rogue follower, or an extra 500 gold per lvl at creation.