PDA

View Full Version : Please review my custom PF class: The Deceiver



jato
2013-02-17, 11:41 PM
Hello all. Long time lurker, and maker of things. First time poster. I've been reworking this idea I had for a class, and now, at its fifth iteration, I feel like I have something I can bring to the table. I would like you to gently but honestly rip this class apart and tell me if it's OP, weak, game-breaking, non-viable, or what have you.

So without further adieu, here is my custom Pathfinder class, The Deceiver (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NmShIR8GwkLd0y8kR1ZAoXUpkaNAAid1A890PfdcqxY/edit?usp=sharing). I would just like to take the time to thank anyone who takes the time to read over this and give me any feedback that comes to mind. I've always dabbled in homebrew, but this is the first item I think I'm close to seeing through to the end.

UPDATE: DeTedinator was kind enough to convert into BBCode, so I can post the class in-thread now!:

Deceiver
Mortals make deals with devils and demons for a variety of reasons; money, fame, power, long life. But in some instances a grieving parent, scorned by a god who refuses to answer their prayers, will turn to dark agents for a chance to return their child to the living. A certain line of weak demons answers these calls, only to trick their client into an unholy arrangement. Instead of completely returning a child to life, the demon binds its weak life force with that of the diminished soul of the child, allowing it remain in the prime material world and grow in power as the child does.

Such a child who carries this burden with them to adulthood is known as a deceiver -- both for the way their appearance deceives onlookers about their true nature and for the way such creatures try to hide their Ďconditioní from the masses. The deceiverís dark relationship has two unusual consequences: Firstly, the demon cannot be purged from the body and spirit of the child without the child once again succoming to death, since their weakened soul is made whole only by being a part of the deceiver. But second, since the demonís life relies directly on that of the person it is bonded to, it uses its powers to protect its hosts at all costs, surprising and if necessary killing their mutual foes without remorse.

Role: Deceivers are savage frontline fighters. Able to use their claws, teeth, and other unsavory manifestations of their dark origin, a deceiver may not be as hardy or armoured as a fighter, but what they lack in toughness they more than make up for in speed and savagery. Most do not trust the deceiver once they see its true nature and thus give it every opportunity to dive headlong into combat -- and away from them.

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d8

Starting Wealth: 4d6 ◊ 10 gp (average 140 gp.) In addition, each character begins play with an outfit worth 10 gp or less.

Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Disable Device (Dex), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (planes) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Stealth (Dex), Survival (Wis).

Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Table: Deceiver{table=head]
Level |
BAB |
Fort Save |
Ref Save |
Will Save |
Special

1st |
+0 |
+0 |
+2 |
+2 |Dark aura, infernal speech, possession


2nd |
+1 |
+0 |
+3 |
+3 |Manifestation, voracity +1, devour


3rd |
+2 |
+1 |
+3 |
+3 |Demonskin, darkvision


4th |
+3 |
+1 |
+4 |
+4 |Manifestation


5th |
+3 |
+1 |
+4 |
+4 |Two of mind


6th |
+4 |
+2 |
+5 |
+5 |Manifestation, voracity +2, demonskin +2


7th |
+5 |
+2 |
+5 |
+5 |Detect demons


8th |
+6 / +1 |
+2 |
+6 |
+6 |Manifestation


9th |
+6 / +1 |
+3 |
+6 |
+6 |Demonskin +3


10th |
+7 / +2 |
+3 |
+7 |
+7 |Manifestation, voracity +3


11th |
+8 / +3 |
+3 |
+7 |
+7 |Telepathy


12th |
+9 / +4 |
+4 |
+8 |
+8 |Manifestation, demonskin +4


13th |
+9 / +4 |
+4 |
+8 |
+8 |Dark sight


14th |
+10 / +5 |
+4 |
+9 |
+9 |Manifestation, voracity +4


15th |
+11 / +6 / +1 |
+5 |
+9 |
+9 |Demonskin +5


16th |
+12 / +7 / +2 |
+5 |
+10 |
+10 |Manifestation


17th |
+12 / +7 / +2 |
+5 |
+10 |
+10 |Shame


18th |
+13 / +8 / +3 |
+6 |
+11 |
+11 |Manifestation,voracity +5, demonskin +6


19th |
+14 / +9 / +4 |
+6 |
+11 |
+11 |Fury


20th |
+15 / +10 / +5 |
+6 |
+12 |
+12 |Manifestation, soul eater[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
A deceiver is proficient with simple weapons, light armor, and medium armor, but not sheilds. Deceivers are also considered proficient with any natural weapons they possess or gain.

Dark Aura
The malevolent spirit bonded to the deceiver drapes them in an aura that makes most creatures uncomfortable in their presence. Starting at first level, a deceiver is granted a bonus to Intimidate and Bluff checks equal to Ĺ their deceiver level (minimum 1). This aura also increases the DC of any Diplomacy or Handle Animal check the deceiver uses to try to improve the attitude of a creature towards her by 5.

In addition to the skill bonuses listed, dark aura also has a dampening effect on channeled energy, nullifying any effect it might have on the deceiver.

This aura shows up around a deceiver to alignment-detecting spells or abilities as chaotic evil, but her own alignment remains visible through the aura.

Infernal Speech
At 1st level, a deceiver gains infernal, abyssal, draconic, and celestial as bonus languages.

Possession
At first level, when a deceiver's life is threatened, its demonic side surges to the fore, temporarily taking control of its hostís body. This ability is called possession. Initiating or ending a possession is an immediate action and may be done at any time during combat, including on a surprise round a deceiver cannot otherwise act in. Out-of-combat instances where a deceiverís demonic counterpart feels threatened enough to possess its host are possible, but must be extreme and put them in a position where becoming possessed is their only means of survival. There is no limit to the number of times a deceiver may become possessed per day.

During this period, the deceiver experiences dramatic and frightening changes, the most notable of which is the growth of monstrous claws, granting 2 natural claw attack which each deal 1d6 + Strength bonus damage. These claws do not prevent a deceiver from holding manufactured weapons or items, nor from handling items which require a high level of manual dexterity, such as reloading a crossbow or opening and drinking of potion. Possession is not a polymorph effect, and worn or held items do not meld into a deceiverís body while she is possessed. As the deceiver gains level, these claws also grow in power and the she gains additional natural attacks:
Hideous Claws (Ex)
At 5th level, the damage dealt by a deceiverís claws increases to 1d8 + strength bonus. In addition, all of the her natural attacks count as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Bite (Ex)
At 8th level, a deceivers grow rows of razor-sharp teeth, granting her a bite attack that deals 1d4 damage.

Evil Claws (Ex)
At 11th level, a deceiverís natural weapons are always considered to be aligned evil for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Spells, such as align weapon, which change weapon alignment have an additive effect, causing her natural weapons to count as both evil and whatever alignment the spell or effect grants.

Gore (Ex)
At 14th a deceiver grows demonic horns, granting her a natural gore attack which deal 1d6 damage. She may gore an enemy even if she is holding items in one or both hands.

Chaotic Claws (Ex)
At 17th level, a deceiverís natural weapons are always considered to be aligned chaotic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Spells, such as align weapon, which change weapon alignment have an additive effect, causing her natural weapons to count as both chaotic and whatever alignment the spell or effect grants.

In order to shield their hosts from grief that they feel most mortal creatures are too weak to confront, a deceiverís demonic counterpart hides the memories of what transpires during a possession from their host. A deceiver cannot communicate with their demonic counterpart through intelligent means, such as through speech or telepathy, but can gain information from her counterpart in the form of subtle cues, feelings, intuition, or even visual and auditory hallucinations which might be described as a sixth sense.

Deceivers can always recognize one another, regardless of any magical or non-magical means one or both may use to hide their identities. Deceiverís can be resurrected from the dead as normal.

Any intelligent creature with sufficient suspicion to do so can make a Knowledge (Religion) check, DC equal to 10 + the deceiverís level + the deceiverís Cha bonus, to gain insight into the deceiverís condition, provided they have ranks in that skill.

Manifestations
As the demonic side of a deceiver grows, it is able to manifest stronger abilities during possession or provide passive boons to its host. These powers are called manifestations. Starting at 2nd level, and at every at every even level thereafter, a deceiver may choose a new manifestation. Certain manifestations have prerequisites which must be met before they can be taken. Unless otherwise noted, manifestations do not provide any benefits when the deceiver is not possessed and each manifestation may only be taken once.

Manifestations available at 2nd level:Bloodlust (Ex)
When a deceiver with this manifestation devours a corpse, her voracity bonus is affected as though she had attacked an enemy, causing it to decrease by 1 instead of being lost entirely.


Demonic Resistances (Ex)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation gains resist electricity 5 and a +2 bonus on saving throws made against poison. A deceiver receives the benefits of this manifestation even when she is not possessed.


Demonology (Ex)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation becomes fascinated with her condition and dedicates a portion of her time to studying demons and their heritage. She adds Ĺ her level to all knowledge checks made to identify the types, abilities, and weaknesses of demons.


Lone Wolf (Ex)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation can, at the start of each day, select a single skill she has at least 1 rank in, but that no one else in her party does. She gains a +2 morale bonus to all checks involving that skill for the day. At the start of each new day, she may change this skill if she so wishes, but if one of her party members has gained an experience level and put a rank into this skill, she must change it. She receives the benefits of this manifestation even when she is not possessed.


Uncanny Speed (Ex)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation increases her speed by 10 ft. This manifestation may be selected multiple times. Each time beyond the first, her movement speed is increased by an additional 5ft. A deceiver receives the benefits of this manifestation even when she is not possessed.


Wicked Stare (Ex)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation can stare intently at any creature as a full-round action. Her eyes seem to smoulder with unholy fire to her target, causing it to become unsettled and preventing it from moving from the square it currently occupies. This ability is not considered an initiation of combat in and of itself. The save against this ability is Will-based, DC equal to 10 + Ĺ the deceiver's level + the deceiverís Cha bonus. The affected creature is still able to take actions and defend itself, and is allowed to make an additional save at the beginning of each turn it is affected by wicked stare. A deceiver can maintain the stare as a full round action to continue the effect for as many rounds as they can use wicked stare or until the creature makes their Will save, whichever is sooner. A creature which makes a successful save against wicked stare cannot be effected by it again for 24 hours. A deceiver may use this ability a number of rounds per day equal to 3 + her Con bonus. A deceiver may also use this ability even when she is not possessed.

Manifestations available at 6th level:Spitfire (Su)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation can create a pit of unholy flames and grasping arms as a standard action that she may shape as desired. The spitfire affects up to 5 5-foot squares, and each square must be adjacent to the previous square, starting with a square adjacent to the deceiver. The effect lasts up until the deceiverís next turn, but she may maintain it on consecutive turns by expending an additional use of this ability and the equivalent of a swift action. The spitfire disappears if a deceiver moves more that 30ft. away from its closest square or loses line of sight of it. Creatures who cross the spitfire must make a reflex save, DC equal to 10 + Ĺ the deceiverís level + the deceiverís Cha bonus, or be caught and held in place until their next turn by the gasping arms. Creature gains a new reflex saves every consecutive turn they are caught in the spitfire to break free and continue moving freely. Any creature caught in or passing through the spitfire take 1d6 points of fire damage per round for every 2 deceiver levels (maximum 10d6). A deceiver may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Con bonus. A deceiver must be 6th level or higher to select this manifestation.


Bonus Feat
A deceiver that selects this manifestation gains a bonus feat. She must meet all normal prerequisites. A deceiver must be 6th level or higher to select this manifestation.


Evasion (Ex)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if she is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless deceiver does not gain the benefit of evasion. A deceiver receives the benefits of this manifestation even when she is not possessed. A deceiver must be 6th level or higher to select this manifestation.


Evoke (Su)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation, through a dream, vision, research, or some other source, discovers the one true name of their demonic counterpart. Once per day, if she says or whispers this name aloud, it gives her demonic counterpart the ability to influence its immediate surroundings (items in the same room or within 20ft.) to one or all of the following effects:
Candles, torches, lamps, or other similar nearby sources of light blow out. Magical sources of light to temporarily flicker and/or become dim. Small to medium sized objects on tables and shelves to rattle in place, rattle over the edge, or are violently swept to the floor. Windows are violently smashed inward or outward. Symbols or writing like abyssal characters or footprints are burned into wood, metal, or stone objects.

Other specific objects can be manipulated in a similar fashion within reason and these events can be happen in any desired pattern or sequence, including all at once, but none of these occurrences can cause or have the potential to cause harm to any creature. Up to 1 minute after this display, the deceiver may take a 10 on an Intimidate or Bluff check against a single creature who witnessed and was within range of these occurrences. Other creatures speaking the same name has no effect, although once a deceiver knows her demonic counterpartís one true name, she is aware of any time this name is spoken, just not where or by whom. A deceiver may only use this manifestation when she is not possessed. A deceiver must be 6th level or higher to select this manifestation.


Infernus (Ex)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation may choose to deal all precision damage granted by their voracity ability as fire damage instead. This choice may be made after an attack roll has been confirmed and can be decided for each individual attack a deceiver makes on her turn. A deceiver must be 6th level or higher to select this manifestation.


Savage Corpse (Ex)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation may forgo the hit points restored by devouring a corpse to savage it instead, allowing her to intimidate nearby foes with her ferocity. This ability functions in all ways like and expends an action equivalent to Dazzling Display. A savaged corpse cannot be devoured for hit points. A deceiver must be 6th level or higher to select this manifestation.[/QUOTE]

Manifestations available at 10th level:Deafening Roar (Ex)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation can let out a thunderous roar, deafening all targets who fail a Fortitude-based save within a 30ft. cone. The DC for this save is equal to 10 + the deceiverís level + the deceiver's Cha bonus. A deceiver may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Con bonus. A deceiver must be 10th level or higher to select this manifestation.


Grab (Ex)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation may attempt to grapple a creature as a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity if she hits that creature with 2 claws attacks on the same turn. She cannot use this ability if she is holding any object in one or both hands, nor can she use grab and rend or rake in conjunction. A deceiver must be 10th level or higher to select this manifestation.


Greater Demonic Resistances (Su)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation has her resistance to electricity increase to 10 and her bonus on poison saving throws increases to +4. A deceiver cannot select this manifestation unless she already possesses the Demonic Resistances (Ex) manifestation. A deceiver receives the benefits of this manifestation even when she is not possessed. A deceiver must be 10th level or higher to select this manifestation.


Horror (Ex)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation may devour the corpse of any creature she reduces to 0 or fewer hit points with a critical hit as a free action on that turn. Devouring a corpse in this way restores 1d8 hit points instead of 1d6. A deceiver must be 10th level or higher to select this manifestation.


Rake (Ex)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation gains the ability to use rake with her claws, allowing her to deliver 2 free claw attacks to any creature that she are already grappling at the beginning of her turn. The damage caused by these attacks is 1d6 + the deceiverís strength bonus for each claw. A deceiver cannot use this ability if she is holding any object in one or both hands, not can she use this ability in conjunction with rend or grab. A deceiver must be 10th level or higher to select this manifestation.


Uncanny Dodge (Ex)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She cannot be caught flat-footed, nor does she lose her Dex bonus to AC if the attacker is invisible. She still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A deceiver with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action against her. A deceiver receives the benefits of this manifestation even when she is not possessed. If she possesses Uncanny Dodge from another class, she instead gains Improved Uncanny Dodge when she chooses this manifestation. A deceiver must be 10th level or higher to select this manifestation.


Contempt (Ex)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation has learned to be cautious while feeding. She gains a +4 dodge bonus to AC against attacks of opportunity when devouring a corpse. A deceiver must be 10th level or higher to select this manifestation.

Manifestations available at 14th level:Demonic Fit (Ex)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation can, as a full round action, begin speaking in tongues in a voice not her own and thrashing wildly in place. This ability functions like the spell fear on all creatures within a 30 ft. radius which can see and hear her. The saving throw against this ability is Will-based with a DC equal to 10 + the deceiver level + the deceiverís Cha bonus. A deceiver does not change positions in any way when using this ability. In addition, for the duration of the round this ability is used on, a deceiverís demonic component may (not must) communicate with its host freely and any such communication is unintelligible to all other creatures. She may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Con bonus. A deceiver must be 14th level or higher to select this manifestation.


Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation can no longer be flanked in combat, except for with creatures who are 4 or more levels higher than her and also possess Improved Uncanny Dodge. A deceiver receives the benefits of this manifestation even when she is not possessed. Taking this manifestation requires a deceiver to already have Uncanny Dodge from any source. A deceiver must be 14th level or higher to select this manifestation.


Profane Gift (Su)
Once per day as a full-round action, a deceiver may grant a profane gift to a willing humanoid creature by touching it for 1 full round. The target gains a +2 profane bonus to an ability score of his choice. A single creature may have no more than one profane gift from a deceiver at a time. As long as the profane gift persists, the deceiver can communicate telepathically with the target across any distance. A profane gift is removed by dispel evil or dispel chaos. The deceiver can also remove it as a free action (causing 2d6 Charisma drain to the victim, save DC equal to 20 + Ĺ the deceiverís level + the deceiverís Cha bonus). The effects of a deceiverís profane gift expires any time she would gain an additional use of profane gift (typically after 8 hours of rest or 24 hours have passed). She may use this ability when not possessed. A deceiver must be 14th level or higher to select this manifestation.


Shadowdrift (Su)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation gains the ability to temporarily manifest their dark aura as a shadowy cloak. As a swift action, a deceiver my wrap herself in this cloak when in areas of low light or darkness, hiding her from sight. During this time, she cannot be heard or tracked. Attacking or entering an area any steps brighter than low light# causes the effect to end immediately. In all other ways, she is treated as though she were under the effects of the spell invisibility. She may use this ability a number of rounds per day equal to her deceiver level and she may do so when she is not possessed. A deceiver must be 14th level or higher to select this manifestation.


Rend (Ex)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation gains a bonus rend attack at her highest BAB, dealing additional damage equal to 1d6 + her strength bonus, to any enemy she hits with 2 claw attacks on the same turn. She cannot use this ability if she is holding any object in one or both hands, nor in conjunction with her rake or grab ability. A deceiver must be 14th level or higher to select this manifestation.

Manifestations available at 18th level:Hellhammer (Ex)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation may add double her strength modifier to all successful natural attacks she makes on a single turn as a swift action. A deceiver must choose to use this ability at the start of her turn before any attack rolls have been made. A deceiver may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Con bonus. A deceiver must be 18th level or higher to select this manifestation.


Pounce (Ex)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation gains the ability to pounce, allowing her to both charge and make a full attack action in the same round. A deceiver must be 18th level or higher to select this manifestation.


Scent (Ex)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation gains the scent ability with a range of 30 ft. She gains the benefits of this manifestation even when she is not possessed. A deceiver must be 18th level or higher to select this manifestation.


Spider Demon (Ex)
A deceiver that selects this manifestationís claws become covered in tiny spines, allowing her to crawl freely along walls and ceilings as if under the effects of the spider climb spell. She moves her movement speed along these surfaces, 1/2 her movement speed if only 1 hand is free, and cannot use this ability if neither hand is free. A deceiver must be 18th level or higher to select this manifestation.


Superior Demonic Resistances (Ex)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation gains immunity to electricity and poison. she also gains resistance to acid 10, cold 10, and fire 10. She cannot select this manifestation unless she already possesses the Greater Demonic Resistances (Ex) manifestation. She receives the benefits of this manifestation even when she is not possessed. A deceiver must be 18th level or higher to select this manifestation.


Venomous (Ex)
A deceiver that selects this manifestation gains the ability to spit a poisonous venom into the eyes of her enemies. She can makes a ranged touch attack (range 30 ft.) against a creature that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Creature hit with this attack are both blinded and take 1d3 Constitution damage per round for 6 rounds. Poisoned creatures can make a Fortitude save each round to negate the damage and end the poison affliction, and a separate Reflex save to wipe the poison from their eyes and remove the blindness effect. The DC for both saving throws is 10 + 1/2 the deceiverís level + her Con bonus. A deceiver may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Con bonus. A deceiver must be 18th level or higher to select this manifestation.

Voracity
A deceiverís successes in combat drives her into a rage, causing her to attack harder and more relentlessly. Starting at 2nd level, for each consecutive turn that a deceiver succeeds in hitting any opponent on the battlefield with an attack, she gains a +1 bonus to hit. The maximum bonus bonus provided by this ability increases by 1 for every 4 levels, to +2 at 6th level, +3 at 10th level, +4 at 14th level, to a maximum of +5 at 18th level. In addition a deceiverís natural weapons deal 1d6 bonus precision damage per attack for every to-hit bonus provided by voracity she possesses. Creatures immune to precision damage are immune to this extra damage. Any increments to this bonus take effect the following round. Multiple, successful attacks made on the same turn do not individually provide additional bonuses. If a deceiver has any amount of such a bonus accrued and fails to attack an opponent, she loses this bonus completely, however, if she makes an attack but fails to hit any target on that round, her cumulative voracity bonus decreases by 1 when that turn concludes.

Devour
Starting at 2nd level, as a move action, a deceiver may feast on the fresh corpse of any enemy she is adjacent to for up to one minute after that creatureís death. Doing so restores 1d6 hit points for every two deceiver levels she possesses. Constructs, skeletons, or other creatures which have no flesh cannot be devoured, though creatures like insects or crustaceans with a thick carapace or shell can be. Deceivers cannot devour the corpse of a single creature more than once, and the creature must be at least one size category smaller than she is or larger. Devouring a corpse provokes an attack of opportunity.

Demonskin
Starting at 3nd level, a deceiver gains a +1 natural armor bonus to AC. This bonus increases by +1 for every third level beyond 3 (to a maximum of +6 at 18th level). Additionally, deceivers gain DR/cold iron or good equal to Ĺ their deceiver level. The amount of AC and DR provided by this ability are both halved when wearing medium or heavy armor.

Darkvision
At 3rd level, deceivers gain darkvision (60ft.). If the deceiver already possesses darkvision, its distance doubles.

Two of Mind
When saving against a charm or compulsion effect, the demonic counterpart of the deceiver steels itself against outside suggestion. Starting at 5th level, deceivers roll twice for all saves against charm or compulsion effects and take whichever result is higher.

Detect Demons
At 7th level, a deceiver's constant exposure to demonic energy grants them the ability to sense the presence of evil outsiders. This ability functions in all ways like the spell detect evil except it can only sense evil outsiders. Deceivers may use this ability at will.

Telepathy
At 11th level, deceivers gain telepathy (100ft.).

Dark Sight
At 13th level, a deceiverís darkvision improves, allowing them to see their normal darkvision range through magical darkness, such as that created by the deeper darkness spell.

Shame
At 17th level, a deceiver is able to channel their power to hide their identity from others. A deceiver may alter their appearance in any way, save for their race. Doing so provides a +10 bonus to disguise checks made to evade creatures which are actively seeking them, or a +20 bonus to disguise checks to evade such creatures if the deceiver becomes a member of the opposite gender. Unsuspicious creatures do not notice anything unusual and have no reason to question the appearance of a deceiver under the effects of this ability. Changing shape is a standard action. This ability otherwise functions as alter self, except that the deceiver does not adjust her ability scores.

Fury
At 19th level, a possessed deceiverís voracity bonus increments as many times per round as she makes a successful hit, and this bonus is applied immediately to any consecutive attacks made on the same round. If a deceiver makes no attacks on a given turn, deceivers no longer lose this bonus completely, it simply decreases by 1.

Soul Eater
At 20th level, a possessed deceiver can consume the soul of any enemy it is adjacent to, within 1 minute of that creatureís death, as a swift action. Creatures without souls, such as constructs, cannot be consumed in this way. A deceiver may never consume the soul of a single creature more than once. Consuming a creatureís soul grants it a temporary +1 infernal bonus to any ability score. This bonus stacks with any ability score bonuses the deceiver may already be granted. There is no limit to the bonuses a deceiver can accrue in this way, but these bonuses are lost immediately when combat or the possession ends, whichever is sooner.[/QUOTE]

Swok
2013-02-18, 11:03 PM
Why does it get pounce only at level 18? That seems exceedingly late for a class that's reliant on a gaggle of natural attacks.
Scent as an 18th level ability is also confusing, ditto for Spider Climb.

jato
2013-02-19, 11:28 AM
Why does it get pounce only at level 18? That seems exceedingly late for a class that's reliant on a gaggle of natural attacks.
Scent as an 18th level ability is also confusing, ditto for Spider Climb.

I was trying to have a kind of rhythm for bestowing natural attack abilities. Like, you'd get one per tier. Plus, pounce, when used in conjunction with grab, or rend, could be pretty powerful. I suppose putting it farther along was OP insurance. As for scent and spider climb, I guess I also thought those would be pretty powerful abilities. Scent PCs usually can't get, at least not permanently, and the same goes for spider climb. It was never meant to be an 'always-on' power as far as I know, so giving it early seemed a tad extreme.

Swok
2013-02-19, 12:34 PM
Always on rarely makes something more powerful. A very straightforward example of why I find scent at level 18 questionable is the Dragon Disciple. Pathfinder did good things for this class by giving it 7/10th casting advancement, but that's secondary to them getting blindsense at fifth level. In most cases that means blindsense at character level 10. I'm sure there are other examples (I'm done looking because navigating the pfsrd on my phone is incredibly annoying) of sense abilities that are always on, gotten earlier, and/or better compared to scent at 18.

With regards to the spider climb 18 is the level that an always on flight item is a trivial expenditure, making the class feature likely to never be chosen when the alternative is pounce or hellhammer. 18th level should probably be flight at a minimum, though even that could come online earlier in the class progression as a mostly strictly melee based class.

On to Voracity. It's certainly an interesting mechanic, though it suffers from how brutally quick many Pathfinder combats are. In the last campaign I was in the longest combat was three rounds. That means that until level 19 the class damage mechanic would have functionally stopped progressing past level ten even under the most favorable conditions (always hitting each round). Off the top of my head though I'm not sure of an easy way to reconcile this. What is the idea behind Voracity? Is it just supposed to represent the possessing force getting angry/into the swing of combat as the fight goes on?

Are most of the saving throws supposed to be 10 + level + cha mod?

Have you thought about making several overarching themes for this class (the inspiration being psychic warrior paths)? Something like a strength based one that focuses on ripping things apart, a dex based one that focuses on precision and has more misdirection and maybe a con based one that focuses on more special abilities (mostly using jovvocs as inspiration: less protecting than enduring and throwing it back in the opponents face) path of rage path of guile and path of spite for working names for them. Theres already the beginnings of this with the various manifestations. Another idea was having more swift action abilities to further emphasize the supernatural side of this class: even when its ripping some fools up it's throwing out magic.

jato
2013-02-19, 04:06 PM
RE: Swok

As far as voracity, this mechanic was used to mitigate two issues; One was that natural weapons can easily be enhanced like any wielded weapon could. The other was to make up for the less than full BAB. The class is primarily marshal, but with all of the additional abilities and manifestations, I can't assign a full BAB without it being OP (or at least I thought so).

Originally, voracity was a bonus equal to 1/2 of the deceiver's level, so at 20th level, you could get up to a +10 to hit. I have been posting early drafts of this to reddit and someone pointed out that this bonus did nothing for damage, which would also be lacking. So I deliberately set the progression for this, capped it at 5, and added precision damage per fight. Thematically, yes, this is supposed to represent build rage and viciousness in the character. Each successful hit makes them hunger to do more damage.

As you said though, because you're dealing with natural attacks here, it's harder to find a good way to add additional to-hit or damage. Combats in our groups are usually disgustingly long, which I why I saw this ability as being viable. Presumably, if the combat is short, you don't need it anyway. But if it's longer, like for a BBEG, you can build up a bonus over time so it gets easier to land those important hits.

Some of the saving throws are CHA based, usually the spell-like ones. But many of the more physical abilities are CON-based. What I was going for with this class was something that was heavily linked to CON. The only huge exception was profane gift, which normally has no save, but I felt a save-less ability for a PC, even once a day, was kind of overkill.

I had though of doing some kind of theme, but the issues I guess I had was that the class is very busy already. Like, there are the one-off abilities like dark sight, plus the manifestations. To add some other kind of progression would make the class doc a nightmare. One alternative to this idea I had was separate active and passive abilities into two lists. And have them switch off. So you'd have manifestations as well as perks. That way there would be just as many options, but two abilities that represent them all.

Another working idea I had closer to what you said about the 3 paths was to pick a demon form that granted certain bonuses and had certain manifestations you could pick from. IE: if you chose a four-legged demon stance, you got a CMD bonus against trips and maybe those manifestations are based on attacks and damage. But there would be another that makes you look more attractive and aids in charming and manipulation. As I said, I feel like including even more options would flood this, but also I like the open-endedness in a way. Someone commented before that they'd love to know more about the type of demon and to have that information in the doc. But I feel like this is an opportunity to let the GM or player flesh out what kind of entity this is.

Swok
2013-02-19, 06:12 PM
On the saves I'm referring to the formula, some are worded in a way the DC will be high. For example: how deafening roar is worded a level 10 deceiver with a charisma of 20 would have a save dc of 25 rather than 20 if using the normal 10+ 1/2 level + ability mod. So far the majority of the abilities are worded this way with the exception of the first two that have saves available.

With regards to the path its a very rough idea for a straightforward way to mechanically customize the class. As is there's multiple ways to differentiate individuals though some will be less desirable. One idea that came to mind was to have the possession be based on rounds/day resource manage, have manifestations be the somewhat ubiquitous 3+ modifier uses per day and have manifestations be usable even when not possessed but better if used while possessed (for example by either being usable at will or by becoming swift actions to activate as I mentioned earlier or having a stronger effect).

Furthering the discussion on voracity I'd be more comfortable with a more consistent damage source: then instead of looking at this from a perspective of how long combat is it would ideally always be useful. The basic idea here would likely be possession type based.

I'm also strongly against the idea that any more options than you have would make it over complicated. This is the game where clerics and druids have a list of options that can change each day with more choices than this class gets in its entire career. Choices are a good thing. And really I'm not even talking about a doubling...my thoughts are for a Deceiver that wants to focus on str will be different from one focusing on dex beyond one would have power attack and the other weapon finesse.