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DM7581
2013-02-27, 02:19 PM
Hello all,

I am running an epic-level campaign and have wanted to put the Tarrasque in, well, just because. Not necessarily as a boss-type, but throw it in there as another nuissance that take up some time/resources amidst the chaos of another threat. The PCs are 21st-24th level right now with a Sorcerer, Frenzied Berserker, Alchemist (3.5 equivalent), and Ranger. I may even throw a Garngrath in (but that's another topic). The problem is, the MM Tarrasque kind of sucks (Toughness 6 times), so I re-selected feats and came up with this. Basicaly, I bumped his hit points in a more efficient fashion, made his bite uber lethal, and Dire Charge is Dire Charge, so that speaks for itself. Let me know if there is anything that would work better to terrorize and destroy. Thanks!

Tarrasque

Size/Type: Colossal Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 48d10+654 (918 hp)
Initiative: +7
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 36 (-8 size, +3 Dex, +30 natural, +1 Dodge*), touch 6, flat-footed 32
Base Attack/Grapple: +48/+81
Attack (PA -17): Bite +40 melee (4d8+34/15-20/×3)
Full Attack: Bite +40 melee (4d8+34/15-20/×3) and 2 horns +35 melee (1d10+25) and 2 claws +35 melee (1d12+25) and tail slap +35 melee (3d8+25)
Space/Reach: 30 ft./20 ft.
Special Attacks: Augmented critical, frightful presence (DC 36), improved grab, rush, swallow whole
Special Qualities: Carapace, damage reduction 15/epic, immunity to fire, poison, disease, energy drain, and ability damage, regeneration 40, scent, spell resistance 32
Saves: Fort +38, Ref +29, Will +18
Abilities: Str 45, Dex 16, Con 35, Int 3, Wis 14, Cha 14
Skills: Listen +17, Search +9, Spot +17, Survival +14 (+16 following tracks)
Feats: Alertness, Awesome Blow, Blind-Fight, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Dodge*, Great Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Improved Critical (bite), Power Attack, Improved Toughness, Dire Charge, Weapon Focus (bite), Overwhelming Critical (bite) (+2d6 dam on a crit), Devastating Critical (bite) (Fort save DC 51), Epic Toughness
Challenge Rating: 20
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral

vasharanpaladin
2013-02-27, 03:27 PM
Anything capable of flight still wrecks this thing. Anything capable of casting spells still wrecks this thing.

It needs immunity to ability drain and ability burn to protect it from smart-alecks. It needs ways to stop people from floating just out of reach and spamming the ranged attack button.

Doorhandle
2013-02-27, 03:33 PM
Try the pathfinder one. It has a ridiculous jump/ the ability to throw spines at flying interlopers (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/spawn-of-rovagug/tarrasque).

Grod_The_Giant
2013-02-27, 04:00 PM
Try the pathfinder one. It has a ridiculous jump/ the ability to throw spines at flying interlopers (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/spawn-of-rovagug/tarrasque).
Is it bad that this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBizgLZX7W0)is the image my mind immediately jumps to when I think of the tarrasque jumping?

LordErebus12
2013-02-27, 04:11 PM
http://geekcentricity.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/FlyingTarrasque2.jpg

Giving the Tarrasque a fly speed equal to 40 ft. (average) making things interesting. also, perhaps a barb-firing tail with sizable range for the ranged nonsense.

Spikes (Ex): With a snap of its tail, a tarrasques can loose a volley of six spikes as a standard action (make an attack roll for each spike). This attack has a range of 400 feet with 50 ft. range increments. All targets must be within 60 feet of each other. The creature can launch only twenty-four spikes in any 24-hour period.

vasharanpaladin
2013-02-27, 04:28 PM
No, don't make it fly, make it force the PC's to fight on the ground. Devamp some of the 4e version's cool toys.

Earthbinding Aura (Ex): Anything within sight of the tarrasque is forced to remain within its reach. Creatures standing on the ground when they enter the aura become incapable of flight until they leave it. Airborn creatures float slowly to the ground and become incapable of flight until they leave the aura. If a creature does not have any other mode of movement, it can float just above the ground and continue to move at its fly speed, but may not move vertically.

Annihiliation (Ex): The tarrasque's attacks ignore all forms of damage reduction or hardness.

Unstoppable (Ex): The tarrasque's form is inviolate. It is immune to any condition that would render it unable to move or attack, or that would cause a penalty to attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, ability checks or ability scores. The only way to harm the tarrasque is by attacking it or using spells, powers, invocations or any other form of magic that deals damage. All forms of damage are subject to the tarrasque's damage reduction and regeneration.

LordErebus12
2013-02-27, 04:46 PM
No, don't make it fly, make it force the PC's to fight on the ground. Devamp some of the 4e version's cool toys.

Earthbinding Aura (Ex): Anything within sight of the tarrasque is forced to remain within its reach. Creatures standing on the ground when they enter the aura become incapable of flight until they leave it. Airborn creatures float slowly to the ground and become incapable of flight until they leave the aura. If a creature does not have any other mode of movement, it can float just above the ground and continue to move at its fly speed, but may not move vertically.

Annihiliation (Ex): The tarrasque's attacks ignore all forms of damage reduction or hardness.

Unstoppable (Ex): The tarrasque's form is inviolate. It is immune to any condition that would render it unable to move or attack, or that would cause a penalty to attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, ability checks or ability scores. The only way to harm the tarrasque is by attacking it or using spells, powers, invocations or any other form of magic that deals damage. All forms of damage are subject to the tarrasque's damage reduction and regeneration.

i like the first one, but the last two are beyond needed.

inuyasha
2013-02-27, 05:05 PM
why is earthbinding aura extraordinary?

shouldnt it be supernatural?

vasharanpaladin
2013-02-27, 08:19 PM
why is earthbinding aura extraordinary?

Because screw you, you're not going to win against this monster by being tricky, ever.

If you give the tarrasque supernatural abilities, it becomes a joke. If you want it to be a truly threatening encounter, you have to give it ways to make the PC's fight it, and not on their terms. No, you can't debuff the tarrasque in any way. No, you can't fly just out of its reach and ping away with magic missile until it keels over.

The tarrasque is supposed to be a threat. Its passing is supposed to leave the world trembling in its wake. If you can stop it by putting an adamantine wall in its path, or summoning a CR 3 monster, or any of a number of increasingly ridiculous tactics (given the beast is supposed to be a campaign-ending fight), that goes out the window.

Pathfinder improved it somewhat. 4e got it right; you can't teleport it off the world it's bound to, you can't just ignore it til it goes back to sleep, and you can't stop it with anything short of blunt lethal force applied directly to the forehead. And even then you can't kill it.

Grod_The_Giant
2013-02-27, 08:53 PM
Not sure what shennanigans it being a supernatural ability allows. I guess you could suppress it with an antimagic field, but that takes away most of your best options, too.

TuggyNE
2013-02-27, 09:48 PM
Not sure what shennanigans it being a supernatural ability allows. I guess you could suppress it with an antimagic field, but that takes away most of your best options, too.

There are, I seem to recall, obscure spells that remove/steal Su abilities from a target.

(Also, Cheater of Mystra/Mailman says, "antimagic field? do want!")

DM7581
2013-02-27, 10:27 PM
Great feedback all. Thanks. Well, I'm not going to cheese it with flight (or some how preventing flight). I do love the spines/volley idea. Any Feat edits? I noticed I have dodge on there (suboptimal), in addition to some others that probably aren't as optimized as they can be. Also, maybe I'll max out Jump ranks to give flyers a bit of a surprise. Thanks again!

ArkenBrony
2013-02-27, 10:32 PM
I would give it mind blank, true sight, and death ward, making it immune to several types of magic. i also would state that it can jump with its rush, getting a +really high number to jump checks with it, then grapple them in mid air

Yitzi
2013-02-27, 11:16 PM
No, you can't fly just out of its reach and ping away with magic missile until it keels over.

Actually, even the MM Tarrasque does that. 30% chance to reflect magic missiles back at the caster; otherwise they're negated.

The Tarrasque's carapace actually stops quite a number of spells (most notably anything that requires a ranged touch attack, but also magic missile and lightning bolt.)

Mind-affecting spells are still a serious vulnerability for it, though; any Tarrasque fix should give it immunity to them.

Grod_The_Giant
2013-02-27, 11:25 PM
Mind-affecting spells are still a serious vulnerability for it, though; any Tarrasque fix should give it immunity to them.

Heck, I'd like to see that pared with some kind of Wisdom damage for trying. Or maybe make you save or go into a rage. That's what you get for peering into the mind of the ultimate engine of destruction!

vasharanpaladin
2013-02-28, 12:35 AM
Actually, even the MM Tarrasque does that. 30% chance to reflect magic missiles back at the caster; otherwise they're negated.


Hyperbole. The point is to actually make a fight with the tarrasque a fight, as opposed to a game of keep-away with ranged attackers hovering just out of reach plinking away while the wizard's summoned allips eat its brains.

Muktidata
2013-02-28, 12:42 AM
Basically you have 3LA to have bought off, 19 feats, and the wealth of your cohorts to spend (Tarrasque should have Leadership). We just discussed this over in this thread (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9000.0).

mjlush
2013-02-28, 06:17 AM
Hello all,
Let me know if there is anything that would work better to terrorize and destroy. Thanks!


Imagine you had a indestructible Artifact too strange and terrible ever to be used (or something you want to protect forever). How do you get rid of/hide it? You could dump it in the sea... but its a given that it will turn up again in the stomach of a fish. You could build a great tomb locked by Awesome Magic, but they don't work, you raided one last week and anyway they cost a fortune.

One really simple option would be to put the ATSATETBU in a chest and cover it with hooked chains (all made from acid proof unobtanium) stick it on a horse coated with Teriyaki sauce and feed it to the Tarrasque. You'd need to check the droppings for a while to make sure the chest has caught somewhere in its intestines but after that you should be good.

Anyone strong enough to kill it doesn't need the artifact... and are unlikely to search its stinking intestines anyway. Even if it is killed it will probably just get better. (perhaps we should set up an order of monks with a Wish scroll to counter any attempts kill the Tarrasque permanently and to keep an eye on its droppings... Oh that's odd there already is one lets make a donation to the cause).

The sad thing is that this idea has cropped up again and again over the millennia (hence the monks), so when the PC's do kill the Tarrasque and shoo away the monks. They find themselves fending off a pack of Dark Lords wanting their jewellery back, various immortals wanting to rescue their hidden hearts (and adventurers wanting the same), several very intelligent weapons in search of someone to dominate, then there is The Blob only kept from growing because of the Stomach Acid and perhaps an imprisoned god or two.

super dark33
2013-02-28, 07:03 AM
Against flying enemies: give it an elderitch blast esque attack on a third horn and bob's your uncle.

vasharanpaladin
2013-02-28, 03:13 PM
Against flying enemies: give it an elderitch blast esque attack on a third horn and bob's your uncle.

No. That makes it fight on the PCs' terms. The idea is to make them fight on the tarrasque's. :smallannoyed:

Jormengand
2013-02-28, 03:55 PM
Or maybe make you save or go into a rage.

There's a PF oracle ability that does that, if I remember correctly...

Grod_The_Giant
2013-02-28, 04:28 PM
There's a PF oracle ability that does that, if I remember correctly...

I'm thinking something like:

Mind of War (Ex): Every aspect of the tarrasque is focused towards total destruction-- even its mind. Anyone attempting to cast an Enchantment on the tarrasque suffers 2d6 points of Wisdom damage (no save) and must make a DC 30 Will save or have the elemental fury of the tarrasque's mind spill into their own, producing a state similar to a barbarian rage.

In this state, the character gains a +4 morale bonus to Strength, Constitution, and Will saves, but suffers a -4 penalty to AC and Reflex saves. She cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Intimidate), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can she cast spells, drink potions, activate magic items, or read scrolls. She can use any feat she has except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, or metamagic feats.

She must then attack the nearest creature (determine randomly if several potential foes are equidistant) and fight that opponent without regard to friendship, innocence, or health (the target's or her own).

After one minute, the rage ends, leaving the character fatigued for ten minutes.

inuyasha
2013-02-28, 04:55 PM
Ive also heard of lower level (15th or something) characters who have used grease, wall of force, and plane shift shennanigans.

I once put my players against the tarrasque and a titan and they killed the titan within the first round (20th level rogue, two +4 keen rapiers) and then the level 10 barbarian 10 frensied berzerker beat the tarrasque to a pulp (with the help of a monk as well) within like 2 rounds

ugh, tarrasque is supposed to be godzilla...

TuggyNE
2013-02-28, 10:03 PM
The Tarrasque's carapace actually stops quite a number of spells (most notably anything that requires a ranged touch attack, but also magic missile and lightning bolt.)

That's not quite right. It stops rays, lines, and cones (as well as magic missile specifically) but does nothing against bursts, emanations, spreads, or ranged touch attacks that aren't rays — such as orb of X.

Yitzi
2013-02-28, 11:30 PM
That's not quite right. It stops rays, lines, and cones (as well as magic missile specifically) but does nothing against bursts, emanations, spreads, or ranged touch attacks that aren't rays — such as orb of X.

You are correct; all rays are ranged touch attacks, but not vice versa. However, there are few if any spells that (1) have ranged touch attacks, (2) are not rays, and (3) are not broken anyway. (#3 is where orb of X fails; a non-evocation spell that does 1d6 damage per caster level is too much, even leaving aside the secondary effects.)

TuggyNE
2013-03-01, 03:30 AM
You are correct; all rays are ranged touch attacks, but not vice versa. However, there are few if any spells that (1) have ranged touch attacks, (2) are not rays, and (3) are not broken anyway. (#3 is where orb of X fails; a non-evocation spell that does 1d6 damage per caster level is too much, even leaving aside the secondary effects.)

Fair enough, however produce flame would work with metamagic to switch it from being fire damage. :smallwink: (And I've never heard it considered broken, either.) I think cloud of knives might have something to say too.

toapat
2013-03-01, 03:58 AM
I was going to put a preface here about feeling kinda like an ass for linking these, but you politely said you are willing to take links.

here is what i Did to him (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258802) (warning, Hide Invisiblity Modifier not listed, Skills and Feats Incomplete)

Warning: Untested, Theoretically should be a CR ~120

Here is what happens when he learned Stone Dragon Discipline (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218055)

Warning: Awesome