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Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-11-13, 04:45 AM
Well, trying something new in the arena. Lets see how it goes.

Need twenty people max, with character sheets drawn up to fight a championship battle. Heres the rules.
25th ECL
No ECL lowering plays, only 25. Racial and class.
2,500,000 starting GP.
For starting stats, Yatzee methood. Click below if you dont know what that is.
Roll 4d6, re roll ones and twos. Drop the lowest number.
If all four dice are the same number, ie: 4 fours, add two. Heres what it would look like...
4 threes, 11 total
4 fours, 14 total
4 fives, 17 total
4 sixes, 20 total
now assign as you see fit.
If you use www.invisiblecastle.com (http://www.invisiblecastle.com) dice roller, put "4d6.minroll(3)" and you will get what you want. Please link those to one of the judges, or here, when you complete.
Homebrew designs OK, but must be reviewed by Earin, Myself, and/or Amiria. (We have all be judges of a sort...)
Excessive stacking OK, but keep your buget in mind.
Must be Humanoid. No oozes, dragons, etc.
No instant death affects.
All matches will be gentilmens matches, with five rounds to prepair.
The arena may or may not change fight to fight. Ill keep you guessing. :smallbiggrin:

To apply, please post your finished character here, and myself and the other two shall review it.

((Earin, Amiria, if you dont want to be a part, let me know, and I will edit this.))

Anyone who has fought, or wishes to fight is welcome.

It will be double elimanation, so dont worry about winning the first one. Youll have a second chance.

and one last thing. If I dont make it to the final two, I reserve the right to battle the winner, as a matter of pride. Then, if you beat me, you will be the new arena champion, no questions asked.

So, let the applications begin!!! (first come, first serve...)

Death, your friend the Reaper
2006-11-13, 05:52 AM
*Death wonders what the reapers ECL is. Actually he just wonders what on earth a ECL is*

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-11-13, 06:02 AM
Cant say exactly, but I know that it means Racial mod, + class levels, = total challange rating.

I belive that deaths would be about 240240234707023984.3

Not sure though...

CabbageTheif
2006-11-13, 08:21 AM
Effective Character Level

oh, and reserving a spot here.

AmberVael
2006-11-13, 08:23 AM
As CT said, Effective Character Level.
HD + Class Levels + LA = ECL

douglas
2006-11-13, 09:47 AM
Incoming from the Finding Players forum post, I have a few questions:

Assuming point buy, how many points?

Can we cast long duration (hour/level or greater) buffs beforehand?

Is Epic Spellcasting allowed? I hope not, it's too easily abusable.

What sources are allowed?

AmberVael
2006-11-13, 09:48 AM
Please check the OOC Arena thread, where I have listed all the current rules.

Arena Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27085)

You cannot prepare beforehand, except for the five rounds you may or may not be given, depending on the match type.

Madmal
2006-11-13, 10:45 AM
around wath day would we be able to send our fighter?

also
what do you mean with "No ECL lowering plays"?

and yes, i'm reserving a spot...

AmberVael
2006-11-13, 10:54 AM
As in, none of the LA reduction rules.

Madmal
2006-11-13, 11:00 AM
allright, i don't even know them.. they are in Unearthed Arcana, right? i haven't finished checking that book...too many variants...makes my head spin...

i think i'm gonna go by Lykan's opinion, and introduce another PC...but that'll be later 'cause i have a class right now...

Lord Iames Osari
2006-11-13, 11:18 AM
Reserving a space

douglas
2006-11-13, 11:36 AM
Reserving a spot for a mega-blaster Sorcerer here. I'm assuming that we're considered fully rested at the start of each match so blowing all my high level spells in the first round won't cause problems for the second.

Lykan
2006-11-13, 01:01 PM
Reserving a spot. Who will fill it, I have yet to deside.

((*sighs at the fact that he's out of the networking of the arena now*))

Exachix
2006-11-13, 01:14 PM
I'll have a go.

But I'll make a new arena person for it.

Possibly a wizard-rogue type of character.

Amiria
2006-11-13, 02:09 PM
Rakhsicz will fight. Perhaps I'll also have someone else ...

I accept being rules lawyer, reviewing stuff, etc. :smallcool:

Rakhsicz (http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=534)

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-13, 04:35 PM
I will reserve 2 spots.
1 for Kyas, a lvl 25 favoured soul (human for arena battles, but she would otherwise be a Thri-Kreen)
and the fabulous 20-hits-in-6-second Deamundus. The true anti-mage.

I can have two spots can't I?

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-13, 04:37 PM
Oh, and by "no instant death attacks" do you mean no death spells? Because that completely debases the entire point of any clerical magic specialists.
As well as Vaels fighting tactic, as well as pretty much any mage that wants to beat people without mellee.

AmberVael
2006-11-13, 06:26 PM
Nope, sorry. Vael's Death Urge is not a 'death' spell/power. It is mind affecting. :D
Not that I am going to be in this anyways.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-13, 06:29 PM
I actually dont have a town character, could I just make one for the battle and possibly use him in the town later? Or is that the way its supposed to be anyway?
Edit: O ya, and reserve a space for me, wouldya?
Another Edit: It wouldent be against a Paladins alignment to fight in this arena would it? ( no promisies to be a Pally, just curious)

douglas
2006-11-13, 07:54 PM
As well as Vaels fighting tactic, as well as pretty much any mage that wants to beat people without mellee.

I'm not planning on melee and my blasting spells aren't technically instant death spells. If you have enough hit points you'll survive one...:smalltongue:

AmberVael
2006-11-13, 07:56 PM
I actually dont have a town character, could I just make one for the battle and possibly use him in the town later? Or is that the way its supposed to be anyway?
Edit: O ya, and reserve a space for me, wouldya?
Another Edit: It wouldent be against a Paladins alignment to fight in this arena would it? ( no promisies to be a Pally, just curious)

Go ahead and make someone. All arena characters have been town characters so far, but who says we can't make exceptions?
And no it would not be against a paladin's code for an honorable duel. This is simply a test of strength, a spar, if you will.

Flabbicus
2006-11-13, 07:57 PM
I actually dont have a town character, could I just make one for the battle and possibly use him in the town later? Or is that the way its supposed to be anyway?
Edit: O ya, and reserve a space for me, wouldya?
Another Edit: It wouldent be against a Paladins alignment to fight in this arena would it? ( no promisies to be a Pally, just curious)

Yes to the first, that's how it first started.

And it would be within their alignment to fight in the arena.

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-11-13, 08:04 PM
Ok, to clarify some things. I would prefer it if it was only one characer per player, so pick your best one. That way, more can join in. As for the character creation, I will edit my top post.

Palidins, no problem, but you might have a hard time fighting other good aligned characters. You choice completely though.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-13, 08:42 PM
2,500,000gp. Who knew it would be so hard to spend...

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-11-13, 08:51 PM
I have a hell of a time with it too. You see so much you want, that you can afford, but you also want your really big, good items. Oh, and no artifacts, for those of you who were thinking that...

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-13, 09:41 PM
Hmmm, what type of really big, good items are you talking about? Cause I have already got my armor, weapon, and stat necessitys (belt of giant str. for example), and Ive barely got 500,000 spent! :annoyed: My problem is finding enought stuff to buy.

Madmal
2006-11-13, 09:43 PM
I have a hell of a time with it too. You see so much you want, that you can afford, but you also want your really big, good items. Oh, and no artifacts, for those of you who were thinking that...

How about the Bracelet of Friends? i'm pretty sure we shouldn't allow that too

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-11-13, 09:59 PM
Well, if thats something that makes people your friend, and not fight, I belive you would get disqualified. It is a fight. I would say use your better judgement, and myself and the judges will be reviewing everyone stuff before it all begins.

AmberVael
2006-11-13, 10:09 PM
Hmmm, what type of really big, good items are you talking about? Cause I have already got my armor, weapon, and stat necessitys (belt of giant str. for example), and Ive barely got 500,000 spent! :annoyed: My problem is finding enought stuff to buy.

Hint: The Mantle of Epic Spell Resistance is a REALLY good buy.

douglas
2006-11-13, 10:12 PM
Bracelet of Friends, aka "Booty Talisman" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0320.html) Since these are supposed to be 1v1 matches, I expect using this item would be instant disqualification.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-13, 10:12 PM
You can use character classes and prestige classes from other books than the standard right? Like the Psionics handbook (cause I was planning to be a pyrokineticist :biggrin:)

Edit: O ya, and can you "upgrade" items. Like making a cloak of charisma + 8 or something?

AmberVael
2006-11-13, 10:14 PM
Oh yes. Amulet of friends is definately out of bounds.

And Myatar, Vael, my character, is a level 15 psion/ 10 psion uncarnate. Of course you can.

As for upgrading items, check the epic magic items. Their stat bonuses, for example, go up to +12.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-13, 10:32 PM
Well the "Epic Players Handbook" just went the the front of my Amazon wish list. :smile: Or is it (it being epic stat items)found somewhere else?

AmberVael
2006-11-13, 10:36 PM
Try ye o so handy online SRD:
http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm
D20SRD is my hero.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-13, 10:45 PM
Ok im on srd, and its saying that a +10 weapon is 2,000,000. Thats got to be a mistake right? I meen in the DMG it says its only 200,000.
Edit: it seems like everything would be reasonable if you drop a 0 on them all.

AmberVael
2006-11-13, 10:47 PM
Ah, no, read the footnote. If you have an 'unbalanced' weapon that is +6 or above, then it uses the epic price. Namely if either the total special abilities or the total attack/damage bonus go past +6, you use the normal-epic price range. If you had a +5 vorpal sword it would be 200,000. If you had a +1 vorpal, quick sword it would be 2,000,000.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-13, 10:57 PM
Hmmm, o I see, that makes sense. One thing I thought was weird was how a Belt of Epic Str. +8 was over 600,000gp, when you could just buy a Belt of Str. +6 and a ioun stone that increases str. +2 and that would only cost you 44,000gp. Plus you could have as many ioun stones as you want.

Edit: And I feel bad for spell casters with that Mantle of spell resistance around.

AmberVael
2006-11-13, 10:59 PM
Don't. Vael could easily zap you even with the 40SR.

Destro_Yersul
2006-11-13, 11:00 PM
I thought those didn't stack.

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-11-13, 11:00 PM
and I belive that would make the uber item I was talking about eiler make sense...

They dont. In 3.5, anything that gives the same type of bonus nolonger works. I found that out the hard way...

AmberVael
2006-11-13, 11:02 PM
Oh yeah. The stat enhancement bonuses do not stack.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-13, 11:04 PM
They dont!? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
O ya, and I thought spell resistance doesnt work on psionics?

Edit: Wait, tomes give you a premanent boost, so that can stack with things like a belt of giant str. right?

Destro_Yersul
2006-11-13, 11:06 PM
So did I. But apparently in this kind of fight they make the two interchangeable so as to increase the number of options one has for dealing with them.

douglas
2006-11-13, 11:20 PM
One MEGA-blaster mage ready to go, sheet PM'd to Vael. I'm here to do my best to disprove the assertion that high level casters have better things to do than hit point damage :smallbiggrin:

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-13, 11:32 PM
Hmmmmmmm, the rod of invunerability seems like a good choice, but Im guessing that its one of those items everyone will have.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-14, 01:57 AM
rod of invunerability? No not really, as you can't hold weapons if you have it.
I'm more of a ring of spell turning fan.

For the purpose of arena, as suggested in the Psionics guide as the default, magic and psionics although have different names, are both affected by each other.

This, for technical people is called magic/Psionic transperancy.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-14, 01:59 AM
They dont!? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
O ya, and I thought spell resistance doesnt work on psionics?

Edit: Wait, tomes give you a premanent boost, so that can stack with things like a belt of giant str. right?

Read the DMG to see what stacks with what.
Its like pge 10.
The tomes and belt do stack as tomes grant an inherrant bonus while the belt an enhancement.

I love my character. he has a high dexterity.

Amiria
2006-11-14, 02:13 AM
rod of invunerability? No not really, as you can't hold weapons if you have it.

Well, the rod is not two-handed so you can still wield it and a one-handed weapon at the same time.

But yeah, it's a bad choice. The natural armor, resistance, and immunity to critical hits stuff can be emulated at lower cost with non-epic items.

The damage reduction is useless against adamantine weapons which are omnipresent in these arena fights.

The spell resistance is worse then the Mantle of Epic Spell Resistance (and sometimes inherent racial spell resistance like that of a drow :smallwink:). Spell Resistance is overated anyway, there are just too many spells (especially in when you count splatbooks CAr and SC) that ignore it.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-14, 04:45 AM
^ The POWER of MORTEKEINS DISJUNCTION!
Having many items rather than just a couple of expensive ones is especially important when you face opponents like me.
Because you are likely to fail at least 1 save, and if you do, you don't want all of your bonuses to go at the same time.

SR is usefull though agaist multi-class characters that centre on combat.
Like me!

I think Mortia shouldn't be a "Last boss."
I think he should just fight from he start, same as everyone else.
He hasn't fought anyone since his character got updated and, I'm not bantering when I say I'll thrash him.

Lord Sidereal
2006-11-14, 07:09 AM
Here's mine:

dice rolls: http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=726101

please PM me if im in (ill try n keep tabs on this but im useless)

Im choosing not to taske natural spell in a bid to get chosen :)

In a further bid to aid my choice im dropping 5 levels. All i need is a 20th level druid. and im not even taking natural spell :)

here he is: http://www.sylnae.net/3eprofiler/view.php?id=32568

Lord Sidereal
2006-11-14, 07:11 AM
will we all be able to fight or are you selecting from submissions?

douglas
2006-11-14, 07:39 AM
So, let the applications begin!!! (first come, first serve...)

BTW, you might want to move your character sheet somewhere else so it doesn't get lost when sylnae gets taken down Sunday.

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-11-14, 07:57 AM
Oh, Im going to be joining the fight, same as everyone else, but I reserve the right to fight the champion, if I dont make it that far...

Lord Sidereal
2006-11-14, 08:03 AM
also here: http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=529

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-14, 09:32 AM
Wait, sylnae is shutting down? Where else could I put my char.

InaVegt
2006-11-14, 09:35 AM
Wait, sylnae is shutting down? Where else could I put my char.
Yes, sylnae is shutting down, there's a sticky about it in finding players, at sunday november 19th all sheets which are still on sylnae and not backed up are lost forever.

Kyrian
2006-11-14, 09:36 AM
EEP! How do I get my sheets off there and move them?

InaVegt
2006-11-14, 09:37 AM
EEP! How do I get my sheets off there and move them?
There's a backup function in sylnae, can't give explicit instructions

Kyrian
2006-11-14, 09:38 AM
Wait...mine is on planetdnd.com....they should be safe then, right?

AmberVael
2006-11-14, 09:51 AM
BIG FAT NOTICE!
When sending your stats to any of the judges, be sure to list the EXACT ORDER in which you took your classes. This is extremely important for calculating saves, since you stop getting them after 20th level, and switch to the epic bonus.
The same also goes for base attack bonus.
It also tells us whether you actually qualify for any Prestige Classes you took.
So send us your class order!

If your character sheet has a 'notes' option (which most do) then you should place it in there for your and our convenience.

Thank you.

-Your Increasingly Frantic Arena Judge.

Kyrian
2006-11-14, 09:58 AM
http://www.planetadnd.com/3eprofiler/view.php?id=5174

I don't seriously plan on doing this...but it's just here for Earin's amusement.

AmberVael
2006-11-14, 09:59 AM
Hm... homebrew race eh?
It all looks good to me, you're free play. ;)

Kyrian
2006-11-14, 10:00 AM
YAY! Level 1 he is, you all still go down..hehehe..well, hopefully, that is the plan and all.

EDIT: Ok, so he's level 25 now...to get past a coward's level drain...

douglas
2006-11-14, 11:56 AM
Heh, that might take a while to whittle down, but I'm pretty sure I could do it eventually without even getting scratched. It would take some time to get the necessary number of natural 20's on metamagiced Enervations (that absurdly high constitution makes my normal hp damage not viable), but I've got the spell slots for it and you don't have any means of locating me reliably.:smalltongue:

Madmal
2006-11-14, 11:56 AM
The damage reduction is useless against adamantine weapons which are omnipresent in these arena fights.

My many thanks, Amiria

Sylnae is shutting down? i beter moves my sheets to other server...any suggestions?

Kyrian
2006-11-14, 11:57 AM
Wrong! Saiyan = Sense Energy/Power/Strength :)

douglas
2006-11-14, 11:59 AM
Sylnae is shutting down? i beter moves my sheets to other server...any suggestions?

Maybe the one linked to in the news announcement on the sylnae login page?

Madmal
2006-11-14, 12:07 PM
Hey...don't blame me for having a low WIS and a poor spot modifier...
but thanks anyways... :)

Lord Sidereal
2006-11-14, 01:48 PM
Finally, my char sheet is complete. behold Marrick, druid of a thousand elementals:

http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=529

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-11-14, 04:54 PM
Hey Earin, do we have a couple of people ready to go? we could probably start the fights soon, if we so choose....

Dont worry, Ill keep an eye on those, so that you might breathe...

The Glyphstone
2006-11-14, 05:53 PM
Reserving a spot - and I already have a Town character to do it with!

Some form of psion.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-14, 07:34 PM
quick question: a pyrokinetikist has an ability called Conflagration. It says that any who fail their reflex save for half damage must also make a Fort. save or die from the heat. Could I use this ability and just leave out the death part?

AmberVael
2006-11-14, 07:40 PM
I'm thinking the 'no insta-death' might not be such a good idea, Mortia. Too many things have it and rely on it.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-14, 08:13 PM
Id like that, especcially seeing as they would have to fail a Reflex save AND a fort. save to die with this (although they do have other death abilitys, like heat death :smile:)
Hmmm, but still, dieing from one strike is kind of lame, maybe make them wait a few rounds and only one death inducing ability per game.

AmberVael
2006-11-14, 08:14 PM
But I liked the way my match turned out because of that... watching my opponent hack himself into pieces was funny...

pup3k
2006-11-14, 08:22 PM
Alright, Vael, I'm PMing you a question.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-14, 08:28 PM
How do potions, staffs, and other 1 time use items work in the arena. Meaning, If I go in with 5 potions of cure critical wounds and walk out with only two, will I start my next battle with only 2?
Edit: and how do you PM someone anymore? Do you have to use something besides giantitp?

AmberVael
2006-11-14, 08:31 PM
Click on someone's name, and it will give you a list of options. One will be to PM.

As for limited charges, limited charged items are allowed, and they are recharged/restocked at the beginning of each match.
However, I will not allow the creation of non-standard charged items.

Kyrian
2006-11-14, 09:12 PM
ALright...I've been convinced...I'm in. My link is up above somewhere.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-14, 10:45 PM
Ok, Im finally done. So I present to you Fellian:

http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=1118 (this is read only, right?)

Hes basically a tank with a passion for fire (although his AC seems a little low, if only fullplate allowed a higher dex bonus :smile:).

And here are his rolls:
http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?u=Fellian+Stats&limit=on

Please, tell me if I did anything wrong, and Ill change it.

AmberVael
2006-11-14, 10:47 PM
Well, I can't see your sheet, so that is obviously wrong. ;)

pup3k
2006-11-14, 11:06 PM
Well Here (http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=985) he is, just needs a name.

Stat Rolls (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=725565)

And now I'm off. See you guys tomorrow.

AmberVael
2006-11-14, 11:11 PM
Sorry Pup3k, but the bonuses from a tome and a wish spell don't stack.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-14, 11:18 PM
Opps, hehe, forgot that you had to request permission. One sec.... ok, it should be ok now, but just in case, here another link to it:
http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=1118

Edit: Ive noticed that, well all of the participents Ive heard of so far are casters except for my character. Am I in trouble?

Another Edit: O and pup, why dont you just buy extra tomes of understanding and bodily health, or do those cost more?

douglas
2006-11-14, 11:31 PM
Inherent bonuses can't go above +5, even in epic.

AmberVael
2006-11-14, 11:37 PM
Edit: Ive noticed that, well all of the participents Ive heard of so far are casters except for my character. Am I in trouble?
If you have no SR, no spells, and no real way to prevent from getting by spells? Honestly, yes.


Another Edit: O and pup, why dont you just buy extra tomes of understanding and bodily health, or do those cost more?
You can only get a +5 inherent bonus from wish/tomes/manuals.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-14, 11:50 PM
Hey Myatar_Panwar.
Your armour isn't right.
Great invunrability doesn't grant damage reduction 10/epic
It grants 10/+2

Your vest of resistance would cost 75000 because it costs 1.5 the cost of an item if it is located on a body-part that doesn't correspond with the bonus gained,

You also cannot have a +10 manual of health as as stated already it grants an inherrant bonus, and you can only get a max of a +5 inherrant bonus on each stat.

AmberVael
2006-11-14, 11:55 PM
Hey Myatar_Panwar.
Your armour isn't right.
Great invunrability doesn't grant damage reduction 10/epic
It grants 10/+2

erm...

Great Invulnerability

This suit of armor or shield grants the wearer damage reduction. The damage reduction can be 10/magic, 15/magic, 5/epic, or 10/epic, depending on the armor.

And that item affinity thing is so retarded... don't bother with it. There is really no purpose to it.
If anyone can give me valid reason for its existance, then I might change my stance.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-15, 12:17 AM
Ok, Ill change what needs it. But I got the Vest of Resistance from Complete Arcane, and it says that a +5 bonus costs 25,000(unless thats only for arcane casters, which it didnt say).

O, and I can make an item that normally belongs on you neck (for example, belong on your eyes for a mere price increase of 1.5 percent!? Man, then I would have just made googles of health instead of resorting to all those manuals. (and the +10 manual was supposed to represent 2 +5's, but now I know that would be wrong as well)

And is my armor right or what? Im just plain confused here. Plus the only reason I bought it was because I have no Idea what else to spend my $ on. Suggestions! Please!!

Edit: O and after seeing the recent posts, Ill probally have to do alot of editing to make it be able to stand a chance in the arena, so please, I wouldent look it over too much as it likely will change.

Another Edit: O ya, and can someone please tell me how some people are getting like a 40 something armor class? Mine is only like 33.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-15, 12:41 AM
if you spend twice an items actual cost, then you can have a "slotless" item that doesn't sit on your body.
Yes, you can have +6 gogles of head.
As for AC, mine is
10(always have that=P)+15(dex)+8(Bracers of Armour)+5(ring of protection)+3(natural)+spells which makes it about 49.
You can also make up your own items.
see the back section of the DMG of how to calculate costs.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-15, 12:46 AM
Hmmmm, nice! But I will definatly need more time to make up items and the such.

Edit: Ha! just had an idea!
Armour, Ultralight. (wonderous item)
When adorned, this silvery robe takes the shape of a shiny fullplate suit of armour, giving you a +8 to your armor bonus. Because of its extreme lightness and flexability, you take no penaltys normal fullplate would give you, nor does this count as being armour at all. This otherwise functions exactly like bracers of armour +8.
Price 96,000gp

(hey, a fighters got to look the part :biggrin:)
Now I get dex bonus, yes!

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-15, 02:44 AM
yeah, you don't have a restricted dexterity any more.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-15, 02:53 AM
Are you sure? because I have the purchased book right here that says:
Great Invulnerability: This suit of armour or shield grants the wearer damage reduction 10/+2, 15/+3, 20/+4 or 25/+5, depending on the armour.
Caster Level: 19th (10/+2), 20th (15/+3), 21st (20/+4), 22 (25/+5); Prerequisites:
Craft magic arms and armour, Craft epic magic arms and armour, stoneskin, wish, or miracle; Market price: +4 bonus (10/+2), +5 bonus (15/+3), +6 bonus (20/+4), +7 bonus (25/+5).

And thats exactly how its written minus several capital levels. I would know as the book is on my lap.

Amiria
2006-11-15, 02:56 AM
Ive noticed that, well all of the participents Ive heard of so far are casters except for my character. Am I in trouble?

No, Rakhsicz isn't a caster. If you do it right you can beat a caster with a non-caster.

As for the robe, there is also Dyrr's Impervious Vestment in Complete Arcane whch gives a +9 armor bonus plus something else.
[hr]
About Armor of Great Invulnerability: Thats all 3.0 damage reduction. You have to look in the SRD, the epic section is updated to 3.5 there.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/armor.htm#greatInvulnerability

douglas
2006-11-15, 03:08 AM
Are you sure? because I have the purchased book right here that says:
Great Invulnerability: This suit of armour or shield grants the wearer damage reduction 10/+2, 15/+3, 20/+4 or 25/+5, depending on the armour.
Caster Level: 19th (10/+2), 20th (15/+3), 21st (20/+4), 22 (25/+5); Prerequisites:
Craft magic arms and armour, Craft epic magic arms and armour, stoneskin, wish, or miracle; Market price: +4 bonus (10/+2), +5 bonus (15/+3), +6 bonus (20/+4), +7 bonus (25/+5).

And thats exactly how its written minus several capital levels. I would know as the book is on my lap.
That must be from the 3.0 Epic Level Handbook. Damage reduction X/+1 etc. does not exist in 3.5, only DR X/magic and X/epic. The SRD entry (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/armor.htm#greatInvulnerability) is the 3.5 version.

AmberVael
2006-11-15, 08:36 AM
Ah, good. I wondered where TKDK was getting that other one.
Thank you, Douglas, Amiria.

Grymmheart
2006-11-15, 08:36 AM
Earlier I read a post (#37) about price of magic weapons that I think was wrong


Quote:
Ah, no, read the footnote. If you have an 'unbalanced' weapon that is +6 or above, then it uses the epic price. Namely if either the total special abilities or the total attack/damage bonus go past +6, you use the normal-epic price range. If you had a +5 vorpal sword it would be 200,000. If you had a +1 vorpal, quick sword it would be 2,000,000

SRD says

Quote:
To find the base price of an epic magic weapon, roll on Table: Weapons. Note that the +6 to +10 rows apply only to weapons that provide an enhancement bonus of +6 to +10 or weapons with a single special ability whose market price modifier is +6 to +10. Magic weapons with a total effective bonus of +6 to +10 but that have an enhancement bonus of +5 or less and special abilities whose individual market price modifiers are +5 or less use the table for nonepic magic weapons to determine price.

So +1 vorpal(+5) quickness (speed +3) sword would not cost 2million, it does not have a +6 enhancement or single ability. It would cost 162,000gp for a non-epic +9 weapon.

AmberVael
2006-11-15, 08:42 AM
Excuse me, my bad. This is what I misinterpreted:
If you have a sword with an enhancement bonus of +6, or a special ability of +6 (as in, epic bonuses) THEN you use the epic chart.

EDIT: And I just noticed the clarification already above. Thank you for catching that.

Grymmheart
2006-11-15, 08:51 AM
So outsiders, etc are allowed if humanoid in shape? And I have not read the clarification on custom items, allowed or not?

AmberVael
2006-11-15, 09:01 AM
I would say humanoid/Monstrous humanoid or either of those with a template added on is fine.
Customized magic items are fine, as longs as they get reviewed and then approved.

pup3k
2006-11-15, 03:17 PM
Ah, Vael, you are correct, I was thinking that one was Insight and the other was Inherent, it will be fixed.

*Begrudgedly walks away and complains about having to figure how to spend the money.*

Madmal
2006-11-15, 03:26 PM
Hey, Vael, i have a little question....how much info do we have to send you, besides the character sheet (well, duh!)

I have some books besides core, and i can get info on most of the ones i don't have...

InaVegt
2006-11-15, 03:29 PM
I can say I know for sure Vael/Earin/Whatever accounts he has has a copy of Comp arcane, Comp divine and the spell compendium.

AmberVael
2006-11-15, 03:35 PM
I need the full description of anything not in the SRD.
So:
Either type out the information, or you can give me a link if it is on the internet. For example, realmshelp.dandello.net is a great place to find/link feats.

Madmal
2006-11-15, 03:37 PM
I need the full description of anything not in the SRD.

That may hurt my fingers...or your eyes....probably my fingers will be the most affected...

still some time until it's finished, though...so no worries for now...

Exachix
2006-11-15, 03:40 PM
When do you want the sheets finished? I have one, but I've got him at first level so I'd have to level him up one by one so I get it all right.

AmberVael
2006-11-15, 03:41 PM
I am not the one who set this up. I have no idea when this will start, all I am doing is making sure your character sheets are correct.

pup3k
2006-11-15, 03:47 PM
Does the doubled speed from Boots of Swiftness count for all forms of movement?

EDIT:

And on the whole damage increasing scale, what does 2d8 increase to? 3d8?

Grymmheart
2006-11-15, 03:49 PM
How are dispensible/usable items being used? DO i start every fight with the same potions, scrolls, single use items, or each round I subtract it?

grymm

AmberVael
2006-11-15, 03:54 PM
As for limited charges, limited charged items are allowed, and they are recharged/restocked at the beginning of each match.
However, I will not allow the creation of non-standard charged items.

Please read the thread to see if your question has already been answered.


Does the doubled speed from Boots of Swiftness count for all forms of movement?

EDIT:

And on the whole damage increasing scale, what does 2d8 increase to? 3d8?

Boots of Swiftness? Those are either non-SRD, or 3.0, or do not exist. Which is it?

And yes, it would be 3d8.

pup3k
2006-11-15, 04:01 PM
Boots of Swiftness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#bootsofSwiftness), in the epic woundrous items of the SRD.

AmberVael
2006-11-15, 04:03 PM
Epic... of course. One place I forget to look...
As the speed increasing component spell is Expeditious retreat, I would say it applied to base land speed.

pup3k
2006-11-15, 04:05 PM
Alright, thanks

(Darn, no 160 ft. Fly speed...)

pup3k
2006-11-15, 05:38 PM
Tada, here (http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=985) is the improved character, named Ashlack Van'teir.

So there, if there's anything else that I missed please tell me.

Vindemiatrix
2006-11-15, 05:41 PM
Not joining, just a quick question. I know non-humanoids are not allowed. However, if you are a humanoid, but have an effect that makes you effectively not one (such as that of a high-level monk or my homebrew; see the sig), are you still allowed to join?

AmberVael
2006-11-15, 05:46 PM
Yes. If you have a template/class which makes your base humanoid non-humanoid, you can join.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-15, 07:03 PM
Arggggg! i was so close to being done with the changes, then when I go to save, I was logged out so they lost my recent changes.
So ya, its going to take a bit longer than expected.

pup3k
2006-11-15, 09:00 PM
So, Vael, since you didn't comment on my character, I take it that the corrections are good?

AmberVael
2006-11-15, 09:01 PM
I didn't comment because I have not had time to look at it yet.

pup3k
2006-11-15, 09:06 PM
Ah, okay, that's cool. Take your time.

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-11-15, 10:53 PM
Vael, Im going to be stubborn on the no instant death affects thing. It makes it too easy to win. Finger of death, power word kill, etc. make spell casters too powerful, and the fights would just become one death affect after another...

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-15, 11:06 PM
But without death affects, spell-casters become useless.

I don't like them as my character doesn't use them, but they are still necessary.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-15, 11:09 PM
I would also say that boots of switness affect fly speed aswell.

The description says that they double speed,

whereas boots of speed don't, as they specifically say they don't change fly speed.

AmberVael
2006-11-15, 11:27 PM
Would any of the other judges like to refute or agree with my decision that boots of swiftness do not affect fly speed?

Grymmheart
2006-11-15, 11:28 PM
Curious about possible caster tactic.

Round 1-4 summon creatures, round 5 free action to command attack while casting teleport to go to some safe place and return 20 rounds later to see if your beasties won. Sound within the rules?

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-15, 11:28 PM
Death effects do take away from the game. I meen its like, "I win innitiative, I move closer to my opponate (bad spelling), I cast Wail of the Banshee. Hes dead, I win......... is that it?......"

I mean, it is hard to fail a death inducing save, but it happens, and when it does, you will find your victory bittersweet. (unless of corse your Vael, making your opponent slash himself to death. Now that must have been funny :smile:) And dont think im just saying this because im a fighter, my levels in Pyrokineticist have givven me a few death inducing abilities as well.

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-11-15, 11:28 PM
I would say no. I know that the description says that they double ALL speed, but they are boots. You dont run in the air.

Earin, I agree with you. I say no.


If you leave the arena, your disqualified. So, that tatic seems good, but you would loose.

Thats why we have the no death affect rule in place, to make people earn it. And spell casters do more than death affects. They have an arsonal at their disposal, as well as self enhansing atributes. It in no way cripples them.

AmberVael
2006-11-15, 11:31 PM
Curious about possible caster tactic.

Round 1-4 summon creatures, round 5 free action to command attack while casting teleport to go to some safe place and return 20 rounds later to see if your beasties won. Sound within the rules?

Turn incorporeal, ethereal, etc, instead. Don't leave the arena.

Grymmheart
2006-11-15, 11:33 PM
hey just add soulfire to your armor, and immune to death, negative energy, etc spells

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-15, 11:41 PM
Ive never really used DR so I have a quick, easy question: If you have dr 10/magic, then you ignore the first 10 points of all damage exept magic, right? Just like if you had 10/slashing, then you would ignore the first 10 points of all damageexept from slashing damage.

douglas
2006-11-15, 11:44 PM
If you have DR 10/magic, you ignore the first 10 points of weapon damage (that includes natural weapons but not spells unless they specifically say they attack as weapons) that is dealt by weapons that do not have an enhancement bonus. At level 25, I rather doubt anyone even bothers to carry such weapons any more, except perhaps a dagger to eat with, so it's almost completely useless.

DR 10/slashing would require a slashing weapon to bypass regardless of the weapon's enhancement bonus, but it still would not protect against anything other than weapons.

douglas
2006-11-16, 12:01 AM
But without death affects, spell-casters become useless.

I don't like them as my character doesn't use them, but they are still necessary.
My character disagrees. There isn't a single save-or-die spell on his entire list of spells known. He uses Delayed Blast Fireball and Polar Ray, pumped up with a ridiculous amount of metamagic, instead. Maximized (with metamagic rod) Time Stop plus two Delayed Blast Fireballs (one quickened) cast each round, all timed to go off when the Time Stop ends... What's your success rate on reflex saves, again? Oh, and your reflex save won't really matter if you don't have evasion.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-16, 12:08 AM
Well, at this level, I would say that a large number of people have the ability of evasion, maybe from a ring of evasion or maybe from boots of swiftness.

douglas
2006-11-16, 12:13 AM
Yes, but evasion just means you might survive if you succeed on enough of the saves. Depending on your hit points, just one failure might be enough to kill you, I've pumped up the damage that much with metamagic.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-16, 12:19 AM
Wait, you can only use empower spell on a spell either through the feat or the rod, not both at once, right?
(plus, how high can the save be? Cause im starting to get scared. I mean, It cant be much higher than 30 can it?)

Edit: O, and for some reason I thought there was an item that gave you a bonus to your saving throws against mind affecting spells, yet I cant find it. If anyone knows of any, can they point it in my direction.

douglas
2006-11-16, 12:34 AM
Correct, any given metamagic feat can only be applied once regardless of how you get it unless something specifically states otherwise. Plus, the only metamagic rod I have is a single Greater Maximize, and that's reserved for Time Stop. You don't want to know how many metamagic feats I have and how much I've reduced the cost of applying them. You really don't.

The save DC is 30 for my Delayed Blast Fireballs.

I don't know of any item that gives a bonus on saving throws specifically against mind affecting, but there's a ring in the DMGII that grants immunity for 110,000.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-16, 12:44 AM
Hmmm, ok thanks. And another question:How does someone fight an etheral being without using force effects?
And this ring, it grants immunity against mind affecting spells? Can you give me its name and any other stats needed (I do not own that book), although theres no guarentee Ill use it. But I do need a ring slot.

douglas
2006-11-16, 01:14 AM
If your opponent is actually etherial, then just wait for him to come back - he can't affect you at all in any way until he does. If he's merely incorporeal, spells and magical weapons still have a 50% chance to hit. For weapons, the Ghost Touch property can get rid of that 50% miss chance for a mere +1. For spells, you'll need to either end his incorporeality (might not be possible if it wasn't achieved using a spell) or use the Transdimensional Spell metamagic feat from Complete Arcane. Note also that any abjuration spell (including such things as Dispel Magic) extends to the etherial plane so no metamagic is needed for them and they can also be used on truly etherial targets rather than just incorporeal ones (reference (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#etherealness)).

The ring is called the Ring of Mental Fortitude and pretty much everything but the price and "immunity to mind affecting spells and abilities" is just fluff. Caster level 15 in case it's needed to set the DC for any dispel checks.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-16, 01:37 AM
Hmmm, but lets say (as noted above), that my opponent summons a few monsters before he goes etheral, how do I get to him then? It says that spells cast WHILE etheral dont effect material creatures, but what about before? Or would the monsters just not follow the command anymore and dissapear? (ps: im mostly fighter, getting to him by spells is out of the question)
Edit: Are there any items that alow you to go etheral?

douglas
2006-11-16, 01:46 AM
In that case, the options I know of are:
Deal with the summoned monsters then wait
Force effects
Abjurations
Transdimensional Spell
Become etherial yourself

Grymmheart
2006-11-16, 08:51 AM
So with that time stop example, would the other combatant not have the 5 rds preparation? Let's say the caster wins initiative, stops time to cast all those delayed spells, then restarts time 5,6, 10 rds later to go off immediately, then one combatant never had a round to act.

Grymmheart
2006-11-16, 09:09 AM
Even assassin death attacks are removed I hope? but could be used to paralyze.

douglas
2006-11-16, 09:12 AM
Doing anything to attack your opponent is forbidden in the preparation period, so you'd still have those 5 rounds to prepare no matter what. But yes, if a caster wins initiative, uses a Time Stop/Delayed Blast Fireball combo, and the damage is enough to kill his opponent, then that opponent would never get to act outside of the prep time.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-16, 10:27 AM
Im pretty sure I can deal with the fire balls, Im just worried about the whole summon monster thing.
So, are there any items that let you go etheral?

Amiria
2006-11-16, 10:41 AM
Maybe try the Cloak of Etherealness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#cloakofEtherealness) ? :smallamused:

Grymmheart
2006-11-16, 01:01 PM
Does initiaive start before the 5 rounds of action or after?

Curious because it seems casters with high spellcraft could ascertain what spell their opponent casts prior to their next action, which initiative could affect greatly.

AmberVael
2006-11-16, 01:07 PM
I've always assumed that your initiative applied during the five rounds, but since you can't affect each other, we simply played out all five rounds at once to save time.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-16, 08:02 PM
Maybe try the Cloak of Etherealness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#cloakofEtherealness) ? :smallamused:

O, dugh! *smacks self on forehead* Cant believe I missed that.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-16, 10:16 PM
O, and has anyone checked out the giantitp dice rolling stuff: [roll0]
Edit: OUCH!! Bad roll, that cant be a good sign.....

AmberVael
2006-11-16, 10:17 PM
Yeah, but you can still cheat with it here.

Flabbicus
2006-11-16, 10:37 PM
I though Rawhide fixed that?

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-16, 10:41 PM
How can you cheat? I guess that if you type it out like this (1d20)[20] and you do it the right way like this [roll0] then it appears differently when quoted. Please someone quote me, lets see if it works.

Flabbicus
2006-11-16, 10:45 PM
How can you cheat? I guess that if you type it out like this (1d20)[20] and you do it the right way like this [roll0] then it appears differently when quoted. Please someone quote me, lets see if it works.

It is fairly evident.

Although I doubt anyone is that unscrupulous that they would lie about something like that.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-16, 11:11 PM
Yes but to be safe, the next person to reply could just do a quick quote to make sure no one trys anything funny.

Edit: O, and pup3k, I was looking at your character sheet and I noticed that you had a +17 other on your armor class. I was just wondering what it was from, maybe from one of your alternate forms?

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-17, 01:24 AM
Ok, I think im done. So here is Fellian:
http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=1118

All unusual or non srd material is explained on the notes at the bottom. Please inform me of any errors.

Grymmheart
2006-11-17, 02:38 AM
I think BAB maxes at lvl 20, so BAB for your guy BAB is 20, epic lvls grant a separate +2 bonus. This keeps max attacks from BAB at 4 (20/15/10/5), you look to have 5 listed (22/17/12/7/2)

The Glyphstone
2006-11-17, 06:01 AM
Umm..there is a whole pile of questions I have sitting in the non-town OOC thread, and I also PMed a chunk of homebrew rules to Mortia. When can I expect a response?

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-11-17, 06:49 AM
Im currently going over your homebrew, and I would have to say that it seems overpowered, but I am trying to find a way to tone it down a little. I will PM you when I have the results.

Sorry for the delay, RL gets busy sometimes...

The Glyphstone
2006-11-17, 07:05 AM
Okay - I was expecting it to be a little over the top - I originally created it for an ECL60 arena, not an ECL25 one.

Maybe cut out the stacking option? It won't really come into play at this low level, since a character at 25th couldn't get more than 1 or 2 choices off Menu D (3 for me because of the PrC progression)...

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-17, 09:52 AM
Ok, fixed. Ya this is my first epic character ever and I just assumed that the BAB and save bonuses would just stay the same. Well you know what happens when you asume........
New link: http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=1118
And do I even have to post a new link after I fix something, or will it fix itself?
O, and the rolls are somewhere on page 5 or 4 I think.

Edit: ok, after some new advice, ive got a bit more changing to do, so you'll notice the links arnt working, itll be done early today.

Lord Sidereal
2006-11-17, 12:27 PM
If anyone wants someone to playtest against i'm game, i could do with an idea of how powerful Merrick actually is.

And are we banning Natural Spell? becuase I've taken cleric so obviously wild shape shenanigans feature styrongly in my tactics, but i didnt take it out of respect for everyone else. Just wondering though, because if it hasn't been banned i might consider taking it as a last resort

Grymmheart
2006-11-17, 05:13 PM
Have almost 40K still to tweak a few custom items or buy more stuff, but here is my guy so far.

http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=1804

grymm

The Glyphstone
2006-11-17, 05:45 PM
If anyone wants someone to playtest against i'm game, i could do with an idea of how powerful Merrick actually is.

And are we banning Natural Spell? becuase I've taken cleric so obviously wild shape shenanigans feature styrongly in my tactics, but i didnt take it out of respect for everyone else. Just wondering though, because if it hasn't been banned i might consider taking it as a last resort


You mean Druid, right? Not cleric?

Lord Sidereal
2006-11-17, 05:52 PM
haha excuse my typos been a helluva week

pup3k
2006-11-17, 05:55 PM
O, and pup3k, I was looking at your character sheet and I noticed that you had a +17 other on your armor class. I was just wondering what it was from, maybe from one of your alternate forms?

I took a level of Monk, so that my huge wisdom bonus may come into play.


And are we banning Natural Spell? becuase I've taken cleric so obviously wild shape shenanigans feature styrongly in my tactics, but i didnt take it out of respect for everyone else. Just wondering though, because if it hasn't been banned i might consider taking it as a last resort

I certainly hope it's not banned, because I took it.

Lord Sidereal
2006-11-17, 05:57 PM
to be honest i think its unbalanced (and imsaying that having talen 25 levels of druid)

pup3k
2006-11-17, 06:07 PM
Oh, it's highly unbalanced, but it's there, and commonly abused. I honestly am not planning on abusing it too highly, just as a contingency.

Lord Sidereal
2006-11-17, 06:24 PM
ill probably include it unless i hear contrary, and only use it if it looks like im going to get my ass handed to me in the first 10 rounds

Grymmheart
2006-11-17, 06:59 PM
10 rounds seems like a long fight, not that I have ever fought in an arena battle.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-17, 07:09 PM
OK, I believe that I am completely done now,... for sure. No more changes will be made unless needed. Ok, well heres another link:
http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=1118

douglas
2006-11-17, 07:24 PM
Since everyone else seems to be posting their character sheets for all to see, I suppose I should be nice and do the same. Behold the long list of metamagic feats and note that for my two Arcane Thesis spells every single one of them except Quicken Spell is free, and even that only costs one spell level.

http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=67

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-17, 07:44 PM
Hmmm, nice douglas. But just out of curiousity, how do you have 8 rings? Or did you Add to to price of one ring by doubling each other price? (thats what you would do, right?)

douglas
2006-11-17, 07:51 PM
I have two rings, each of which has four powers, following the multiple different abilities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#multipleDifferentAbilities) pricing rule. On each ring, every power except the most expensive one has a 50% markup. Double price is for slotless items like Ioun Stones.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-17, 08:17 PM
OOOOO, I just thought it would count as a slotless item because your basically putting it in another item. But, I see, it makes sense.

And yea if anyone wants a practice match, I need to see how good (or bad) Fellian is.

Grymmheart
2006-11-17, 09:30 PM
Yeah the opening thread said to post guys here to enter. I wanted to keep mine secret, but it said you had to post.

Grymmheart
2006-11-17, 09:33 PM
Flaws allowed? If so, cool 2 more feats coming.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-17, 09:35 PM
Flaws? Ummm, What?

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-17, 11:00 PM
I shall enter Kyas instead of Deamundus I think.

The "no death spells" was reproached yes?

AmberVael
2006-11-17, 11:01 PM
Flaws allowed? If so, cool 2 more feats coming.
Flaws allowed.

Death Spells are not allowed.

One of my fights lasted 14 rounds, so no, 10 is not really amazing.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-17, 11:31 PM
Ummm, can someone tell me what a "flaw" is?

AmberVael
2006-11-17, 11:33 PM
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm#flawDescriptions

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-18, 12:45 AM
flaws... hmmm... never heard of them.
BTW I'm not sure that vael can have taken "improved manifester level" that many times.
It says that flaws can only be taken during 1st level, and you would only have gained two feats after reaching lvl 20 there-fore you would only have 2 epic feats.

AmberVael
2006-11-18, 12:51 AM
Mm hm. Normally. However, there are many flaws that can only be taken after level 1, or at least later made flaws. Check out realmshelp.dandello
I say you can take flaws at every fifth level, to a max of two total flaws.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-18, 01:32 AM
Wait, so I could take a flaw to get a bonus epic feat!? Hello Inattentive!
Edit: But where does it say you can take them every 5 levels?

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-18, 01:38 AM
No. I refuse to say people can take epic feats by granting themselves flaws.
-2 to ranged attacks to a psion who doesn't even know what a weapon is compared to 1 Manifester level?
There is no way in hell that that is ballanced.

Oh, and I just looked through Realmshelp, and I found nothing that says you can take flaws over first level.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-18, 01:55 AM
Well, it will be balanced if we all do it. :smile:
Just like it wasnt balanced when us lvl. 25 characters got 2,500,000 gold when a normal level 25 characters standard gold would be only 2,100,000, but we all got it.
Edit: But Im not sure about this either, Ill just not take any. Although after taking a quick look over the feats, I did change my Epic Weapon Specialization to Two-Weapon Rend. Much better.

AmberVael
2006-11-18, 02:00 AM
Notice all the flaws listed that say 'first level only'? And how some of them don't have that? Yeah.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-18, 02:04 AM
Ugggg, THE TEMPTATION!!! But I dont see any first level only ones..... Im confused....am I looking at a different page? Cause im loking at the page you linked above.

AmberVael
2006-11-18, 02:06 AM
http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/featsform.pl

Note the ones that say 'first level only' out to one side.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-18, 02:10 AM
Note that on the page thats lists all possible feat types under the "flaws" section it says, can only be taken at first level.

Just because it DOESN'T say something, doesn't mean its not different to everything else.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-18, 02:15 AM
Hmmm, now im overly confused.?.?.? Wernt' we talking about Flaws? This page is describing feats.
Edit: .................................................. .................................................. ................................... thats alot of feats...........

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-18, 02:23 AM
Go to this page:http://realmshelps.dandello.net/datafind/featsb.shtml


This is what it says.

Flaws are like the flip side of feats. Whereas a feat enables a character to be better than normal at performing a task (or even to do something that normal characters can't), a flaw restricts a character's capabilities or imposes a penalty of some sort. A player may select up to two flaws when creating a character. After 1st level, a character cannot take on additional flaws unless the DM specifically allows it (for examples of times when doing this might be appropriate, see Character Traits, Chapter 3, Unearthed Arcana). Each flaw a player selects entitles his character to a bonus feat. In other words, when you create a character, if you select two flaws, you can also take two bonus feats beyond those your character would be normally entitled to. Unlike traits , flaws are entirely negative in their impact on a character's capabilities.

AmberVael
2006-11-18, 02:25 AM
After 1st level, a character cannot take on additional flaws unless the DM specifically allows it (for examples of times when doing this might be appropriate, see Character Traits, Chapter 3, Unearthed Arcana).
Oh hey, what do you know?

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-18, 02:27 AM
Notice the "Unless the DM allows it" part.

I don't think the DM would allow it in your case, or at least any sane one wouldn't.
Hell, I wouldn't let my PC's anywhere near flaws anyway.

Thats a way to make a 1st level character an absolute fighting king.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-18, 02:28 AM
Heh, good point, the DM's always right. So you are allowing players to take epic feats from flaws? And if so, are you?
Edit: do we have a DM for the arena fights? Cause I thought it was either Vael or mortia.

AmberVael
2006-11-18, 02:30 AM
Well hey TKDK, guess what? I'm the DM, and I'm decidedly not sane.
So if Mortia or Amiria will agree with me on this... then people can go crazy with flaws.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-18, 02:37 AM
Why are you Dm?
In my opinion the DM shouldn't just be one person.
There should be a large group of people, not just a select few who have allready formed their own little clique with each other and would automatically support each other just because they're friends.

AmberVael
2006-11-18, 02:54 AM
I am the 'DM' because I got voted in by the council months back.
Now the reason I actually have any authority at all (here at least) is because Mortia made this thread. He said 'we are having a fight like this' and you all decided to join. One of the things he said was that I was one of the three judges/DMs, and therefore I am. If you don't like his rules, tough cookie. He made it, it is his game and he can do it how he wants. As for the rest of the Arena, I am available to make rules, rulings and decisions AS YOU DESIRE. I in NO WAY have ANY authority beyond that which YOU give me. I am simply called the 'Arena Judge' because most people choose to use the rules I create and choose to use me as a judge, since the Council gave me the nice pretty title which I shine and put on my shelf.
Now I'm going to bed for real this time.

Amiria
2006-11-18, 02:55 AM
Well hey TKDK, guess what? I'm the DM, and I'm decidedly not sane.
So if Mortia or Amiria will agree with me on this... then people can go crazy with flaws.

I disagree on flaws. :smallfurious:

Darn, am I now the evil big sister ? :smalleek:

douglas
2006-11-18, 03:14 AM
Ok, some of those flaws are completely broken - they violate the most important rule in existence regarding flaws, "A flaw must have a meaningful effect regardless of character class or role." Some examples:

Aligned Devotion: My single level of cleric is enough to qualify, but the drawback is utterly meaningless even at mid levels. Who cares that your 2 or 3/day CLW might be less effective when you're not actually the party healer?

City Slicker: If you aren't the party tracker or nature expert the skill penalties are meaningless, and the requirement is absolutely trivial to meet with a single multiclass level and many characters wouldn't even need to multiclass or the choice of class wouldn't hurt at all - one level of barbarian for a melee fighter, or taking the Travel domain as a cleric? That's not a penalty at all.

Divine Gesture: As with Aligned Devotion, one level of cleric is all you need. With two domain abilities, turn undead to power Divine feats that don't care about your turning level, heavy armor proficiency, plus the ability to qualify for certain prestige classes is already enough to make a cleric dip attractive for some builds. A free feat on top of that is not necessary, and the penalty is meaningless for someone who isn't focusing on his divine spellcasting class. Heck, for my character I didn't even bother to pick his cleric spells because they'd be so weak as to be worthless at this level.

Domain Devotion: Again, too easy to qualify for with a 1-level dip.

Exhausting Rage: Both too easy to qualify for and usually meaningless - unless your combats last unusually long, a barbarian's not going to run out of duration on his rage until the encounter is over anyway.

Foe Specialist: Easy to qualify for without sacrificing anything significant for many builds, the penalty is much too small, and the selection of skills it applies to is nowhere near general enough. Feats that simply give penalties to skill checks have to be very careful to select skills that practically everyone will use. Note that the only SRD flaw with skill penalties puts them on Listen and Spot, which may quite frequently determine whether you get to act in a surprise round or not regardless of your build.

Forlorn: Plenty of people already think a dip in Sorcerer for True Strike and a few other low-level spells is well worth it for a fighter type. For those people, as well as the many people who consider familiars to be nothing but XP bombs, this is a complete freebie.

Light Sensitivity: The penalty is too small given its situational nature.

Loner: Same as Forlorn.

Loudmouth: Too many types of characters don't care at all about either of the skills penalized.

Magical Overload: Good for a 1-level dip.

Material Devotion: Yet another flaw for the 1-level dipper.

Methodical Magical Methods: and another one.

Ponderous Spellcaster: and another.

Restricted Sorcery: how many of these are there?

Terrain Specialist: The free Track feat Rangers get at level 1 makes it trivial for someone who has no interest in tracking at all to take this without significantly decreasing their melee fighting ability.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-18, 04:30 AM
I'm not going to have an argument with you about who should/shouldn't be DM and nor am I trying to debase your power,
But for a competion where EL reduction, nor death spells are allowed because they unballance the game because they are too easy to abuse, then why are we allowed epic feats from flaws? In fact, why are we allowed flaws at all?
Sure flaws make my character 20% better, (really, I mean this) but they make everyone else better too and its just more tiny little details that we have to constantly worry about.
Flaws which don't penalise anyone enough to actually matter at all anyway.

Grymmheart
2006-11-18, 09:56 AM
. Maybe at lvl 25 you can take an epic flaw for an epic feat. Some funny suggestions.

Epic Pathetic- take -10 penalty to any ability score

Epic Poor reflex/Weak will/Meager fortitude- automatically fail corresponding save try

Epic Murky eyed- grant concealment to every one you attack, 4 miss rolls required if they have concealment and if any miss, then attack fails

Epic slow- base speed reduced in half (flying,swim,etc), land speed reduced to 5, and not allowed any 5' step

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-18, 01:08 PM
Hmmmm, now those ones seem a little over the top. I meen epic slow? Only being able to move 5 feet? No epic feat could make up for that.

Grymmheart
2006-11-18, 02:20 PM
By Epic level just fly evrywhere, who needs to walk? Or dimension door everywhere.

Also jokingly made the flaw of significance to equate an epic feat. Moving just 1/2 land speed for an epic feat seems broken the other way as people were arguing.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-18, 02:51 PM
"Automatically fail the corresponding fail."

heh heh heh. I like that. It doesn't work but I think its cute.

I'd say an epic version of a flaw would have double, or triple the normal penalties.
i.e. epic "crap saves" you take -6 on a save of your choise.

epic "crap AC". you take -3 to your AC.

Otherwise, its just not damaging.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-18, 03:04 PM
Sounds good to me.

Omniplex
2006-11-18, 03:40 PM
While I'm not much of a powergamer, I enjoy making characters, so I may or may not throw my hat in.

Grymmheart
2006-11-18, 04:40 PM
Even -3 to AC is not much, considering for 3x3x2500gp you could add a sacred or profane or luck or insight bonus to AC.

Grymmheart
2006-11-18, 06:56 PM
Well that sucks, spent 2hours redoing my items last night to get best bang for buck and saved it. But other comp had character open and when wife was closing she must have saved the old character.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-18, 09:34 PM
Dahm! I did that yesterday aswell. Except due to my younge age I haven't yet a wife and it was my own fault.

MORTIA! LOOK AT THIS THREAD!! WE NEED YOUR OPINION!

Grymmheart
2006-11-18, 10:22 PM
Opening thread says


To apply, please post your finished character here, and myself and the other two shall review it.


Is that the rule or can the few people tha posted a link, delete the link to keep their guys somewhat secret?

Grymmheart

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-18, 10:51 PM
I think you are supposed to post the link and keep it their.
Don't stress though. Vael just wants to go through it and make sure its all correct. Its not like anyone would be so unscrupulous as to look through your sheet and try to work out ways to beat you.

AmberVael
2006-11-19, 12:26 AM
And if they did, they would fall prey to everyone else and get slaughtered since they focused around killing one character.

Mortia De Luna Draco
2006-11-19, 04:09 AM
I would say yes on flaws, but make the flaws count. Heres the rules I sugest for flaws.

2 max.
They must be battle centered, as a person who cant speak well affects combat not at all.
one has to be taken at 1st lvl, and the other CAN be used for an epic feat.

And I dont think that something that is available to everyone makes it unfair. Its only unfair if one person gets it.

*oh, look. A page six...*

I would also say that after Vael has reveiwed all the characters, to post them here, to keep it fair. Almost everyone has seen my characters, every time Ive upgraded him. It makes it more fun when everyone can see the flaws in your character. Makes you think more when they exploit them...

Like Vael is doing to me now...

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-19, 04:17 AM
Here is my now complete character:
http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=1289

And I just found an ability that effectively allows me to cast spells but also makes me immune to them.
heh heh heh.
I now love the permanent emnation feat.
Lots.

Oh, and after this fight I'm going to totally redo my character. Specifically with the vow of poverty, only because I've just thought of the most unbreakable setup for a character ever.

Exachix
2006-11-19, 04:18 AM
Question: if we don't use flaws, does that mean we are generally worse off?

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-19, 04:38 AM
Probably yes.

If I were you, I would use flaws.
It means 1 extra regular feat aswell as 1 epic feat.

InaVegt
2006-11-19, 06:47 AM
Oh, and after this fight I'm going to totally redo my character. Specifically with the vow of poverty, only because I've just thought of the most unbreakable setup for a character ever.

VoP has been banned by Vael, Daniella would've used it otherwise.

douglas
2006-11-19, 10:03 AM
Any chance of getting this tournament started soon? I want to start turning opponents into bonfires now :smalltongue:

Grymmheart
2006-11-19, 10:36 AM
Since disposable items are refreshed, I assume if someone's weapon is sundered, they have it again, or if someone disjunction's items, the items return?

AmberVael
2006-11-19, 11:26 AM
*Snort*
Mortia, Vael would be doing the same thing to anyone. Take Deamundus for example.
I'm exploiting your weakness, true, but notice that I have switched tactics entirely, and yet I am still capable of both tactics.
Vael is built to be rather versatile, even if he does not look like it. He could exploit the weaknesses of a lot of people.


Since disposable items are refreshed, I assume if someone's weapon is sundered, they have it again, or if someone disjunction's items, the items return?
That is correct.

Grymmheart
2006-11-19, 02:37 PM
No biggie but curious, the arena thread link says for character creation roll system (as described) or 48 point buy, my rolls come to 45 point buy. I do not mind keeping them, but if able I will change to 48 point buy.

Grymmheart

AmberVael
2006-11-19, 02:44 PM
Sorry, but if you take the risk of rolling you have to stick with the rolls.
*shrug*

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-20, 12:24 AM
Awwww man! I didnt even see the option to do a point buy! :frown:

O well, 44 isnt bad...

Edit: O and heres my final character after I picked Flaws.

Kalbereth
2006-11-20, 08:54 PM
Ok then, here's the character. The link will remain unchanged, but up until the first battle I reserve the right to add flaws and drastically change the scroll selection. Other than that, I think I'm good.


Clicky (http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=1992)


EDIT: I'm also relatively certain that a) none of your items will function within that antimagic field DK, and that most spells won't either. I'd love a judge ruling on that one, because if it is legal, it makes every caster here almost worthless and it would be somewhat pointless for me to remain in the tournament.

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-20, 11:48 PM
Uhhhhhhhh, Kalbereth, your link isnt working.

douglas
2006-11-21, 12:10 AM
For the Antimagic Field, I imagine he's planning to turn it off at the start of his turn (free action) and back on at the end (another free action). There is a very simple way to deal with this: fly high enough that he can't get to you without magic and ready an action for when the field goes down (you'll need some way of determining when this happens, such as Arcane Sight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/arcaneSight.htm)).

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-21, 01:28 AM
Does the arena have a roof, cause I just got an idea.

Exachix
2006-11-21, 11:55 AM
Sorry for the delay on making my character... I am majorly busy, but I should have it done soon! Hopefully...

Here are the rolls I have used: Hope they are ok:
http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?a=show&id=723282

AmberVael
2006-11-21, 11:59 AM
*el sigh*
Do not use the 'character stats' option. Go to dice rolls, and put in 6 rolls of 4d6.minroll(3)

Exachix
2006-11-21, 12:10 PM
Aw crepe....

I did that before you said that....

Ah well.. change stat time and hope it doesn't change (alot)!

AmberVael
2006-11-21, 12:13 PM
You mean this?
http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=737000
Pretty good rolls.

Or did you just roll these?

18,16,16,16,16,16
That is really nice.

douglas
2006-11-21, 12:22 PM
Wow, those are some amazingly uniform ability scores there. One 20 with the "Yatzee" rule and five 16's after dropping the lowest die.

AmberVael
2006-11-21, 12:23 PM
No, there is no 20. What do you mean?

Exachix
2006-11-21, 12:24 PM
I just rolled them.

2006-11-21 09:15:41

((Although that's invisiblecastle time. I'm about 8 hours after that))

douglas
2006-11-21, 12:33 PM
No, there is no 20. What do you mean?
Oops, missed that all four dice have to be the same to get that +2 rather than just the three you keep.

AmberVael
2006-11-21, 12:35 PM
Yup. That is what I figured.

Grymmheart
2006-11-21, 01:24 PM
EDIT: I'm also relatively certain that a) none of your items will function within that antimagic field DK, and that most spells won't either. I'd love a judge ruling on that one, because if it is legal, it makes every caster here almost worthless and it would be somewhat pointless for me to remain in the tournament.

I can think of two spells that should thwart a permanent emanation antimagic field that would keep casters very viable against that effect. Both would be funny to see happen.

AmberVael
2006-11-21, 01:37 PM
Hm. I can't think of a way for Vael to get rid of it, but I do know a way for him to bypass it.
Vael is just that good.

Kalbereth
2006-11-21, 04:20 PM
Oy. Forgot to make it public, and I'm at the library. For some reason, I can never log into the Tangled Web at school or the library - I think it's the security settings but those are locked. I'll fix it later.

But seriously, he can drop and bring it back up as a free action? That's...that's just wrong. Really, intensely wrong. Looks like I'm going to be having some major readied actions going on.

AmberVael
2006-11-21, 04:21 PM
Yeah, but you can mess with him because of that. You can mess with him ALOT.

Kalbereth
2006-11-21, 04:27 PM
Really? Tell me more of this "messing around."

And if you're still around, Vael, are you one of those people offering to serve as mentors?

AmberVael
2006-11-21, 06:33 PM
Yup. I'm a mentor, the Arena Judge, unofficial Town Avatarist, and temporary Council Member.
And I can't give away my secrets. ;)
I gave enough away with what I just did with Vael.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-22, 01:09 AM
Ok then, here's the character. The link will remain unchanged, but up until the first battle I reserve the right to add flaws and drastically change the scroll selection. Other than that, I think I'm good.


Clicky (http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=1992)


EDIT: I'm also relatively certain that a) none of your items will function within that antimagic field DK, and that most spells won't either. I'd love a judge ruling on that one, because if it is legal, it makes every caster here almost worthless and it would be somewhat pointless for me to remain in the tournament.

Oh, no the thing is perfectly legal, but I can dismiss it and re-summon it as a free action so if I want I can supress it, gain the full bonuses of my magical abilities for the round then re-activate it.

And yes, it is completely legal to do so, and it isn't any more of rule abuse than using psionics to deal 300+ damage in a round.

Basically, everything must have something that can counter it, and I've found it.

I would apreciate it though If others didn't try to steal my idea....

And a way to bypass/dispell it you say?
Apart of course from Mortekeins Disjunction?
I shall have to look up the Psionics book.

I would be glad to educate anyone that needs help on the skill of Uber character building.

AmberVael
2006-11-22, 01:16 AM
Ok, after reading over the feat permanent emanation, my question is this:
Is it still really your spell after you gain the feat, or is it another ability all together? Does it only require you to have the spell before you can gain the ability, or what?

To me it still looks like you've "cast" your spell, but now the duration is permanent and you can cast/dismiss it as a free action. Am I correct?

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-22, 01:38 AM
It requires you to have the ability to cast the spell, and being a wizard with no school specialisation, I do.

You're pretty much right Vael, except that it cannot be removed permanently, just temporarily. Anything that could dispell it only supresses it for 2d4 rounds, which can easily be covered for.

Consider it to be a "racial feature." If it weren't an anti-magic field, it could be overcome in all the regular ways of removing one, abliet temporarily, except to remove it permanently, you'd be taking away a feat which I'm pretty sure can't be done.

Another example, consider it as the saints ability to surround him/herself with a spell immunity sphere as a free action at any time.

AmberVael
2006-11-22, 01:41 AM
Right, right. Heh heh. Buwahahahahaha!
Oh no, I didn't just figure out how Vael would utterly laugh at you if you did that.

Thri-Kreen_DK
2006-11-22, 01:49 AM
Actually, Vael vs my character would essentially be stalemate.

I couldn't get near him, as you can't fly in an anti-magic field, but he couldn't affect me with any spells/powers unless I suppressed it, but that won't happen for exactly that reason.

O, and I'm adding one more thing to my character.
A mighty composite bow with arrows of ghost touch!

Why didn't I think of that before? Wait, I did, but going on a band tour for 3 days made me forget.

McBish
2006-11-22, 01:51 AM
Wouldn't he just dispell it and blast away at you for the 2d4 rounds?

AmberVael
2006-11-22, 01:51 AM
Vael would have fun messing with you if you tried that.