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barna10
2013-03-07, 10:15 PM
The Warmonger (The Fighter re-imagined)
(more fluff and stuff to come)

My intent with this re-work is to create a higher than tier 4 Fighter that is still simple and elegant. My inspiration is Conan if he became a legionnaire for 20 years.

Hit Die: d12

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Fighter Bonus Feats
1st|+1|+2|+0|+0| Battle Focus (Full-Round Action), Battle Hardened (Natural Armor), Dodge Bonus (+1), Impromptu Attack (Natural Weapon), Improved Unarmed Strike|-
2nd|+2|+3|+0|+0|Impromptu Step |1
3rd|+3|+3|+1|+1| Battle Wizened, Dodge Bonus (+2)|-
4th|+4|+4|+1|+1|Battle Focus(Immunity to Fear)|1
5th|+5|+4|+1|+1| Battle Hardened (DR 1/-), Dodge Bonus (+3)|-
6th|+6/+1|+5|+2|+2| |1
7th|+7/+2|+5|+2|+2| Battle Wizened (+1), Dodge Bonus (+4)|-
8th|+8/+3|+6|+2|+2|Battle Hardened (DR 2/-)|1
9th|+9/+4|+6|+3|+3| Battle Focus (Standard Action), Dodge Bonus (+5)|-
10th|+10/+5|+7|+3|+3|Heroic Body (+2)|1
11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+3|Battle Hardened (DR 3/-), Battle Wizened (+2), Dodge Bonus (+6)|-
12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+4| |1
13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+4|Impromptu Attack (Any Weapon), Dodge Bonus (+7)|-
14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+4|Battle Hardened (DR 4/-)|1
15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+5|Battle Wizened (+3), Dodge Bonus (+8)|-
16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+5| |1
17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+5| Battle Focus (Swift Action), Battle Hardened (DR 5/-), Dodge Bonus (+9)|-
18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+6| |1
19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+6| Battle Wizened (+4), Dodge Bonus (+10)|-
20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+6|Battle Hardened (DR 6/-), Heroic Body (+2), Impromptu Attack (second Attack) |1[/table]

Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level, x 4 at 1st level): Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Ride (Dex), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).

The battle field is a treacherous place, one where many skills are useful.

Weapons and Armor: All martial and simple weapons; Light, Medium, and Heavy armor; and all shields.

Battle Focus: Battle is chaos mixed with blood, loud noises, and constant stress. This conditions the Warmonger to ignore distractions and other set-backs to focus on his task. Whenever the Warmonger is suffering from penalties to hit, damage, AC, skills, checks, or saves from any source (from the environment, spells, poison, etc.), he may make a Concentration check to attempt to ignore some of the penalties until the current task is completed (the battle ends, the wall is climbed, he makes it to the surface, etc.). Initially, this check is a full-round action. At 9th level it becomes a standard action and at 17th level it becomes a Swift action. The benefit from the ability is determined by a concentration check. The DC of the check is 15. Success means the total penalties the Warmonger is suffering from is reduced by 1. For every 10 points he makes the check by, the penalties are reduced by 1 more (25 or more equals a -2 reduction, 35 or more equals a -3 reduction, etc.) The Warmonger can make the check as often as once per round. However, if he makes another check, the benefit is determined by the most recent roll, even if it is worse than a previous one.

The Warmonger's supreme focus allows him to keep his cool even in the face of certain death or unbeatable odds. At 4th level he becomes immune to fear from any source.

Battle Hardened: The Warmonger is used to taking a beating. This has conditioned his body to be able to withstand more punishment than most others could ever hope to. At 1st level the Warmonger receives a Natural Armor bonus equal to his Constitution Bonus (minimum of 1). If his Constitution score changes later (up or down), so does this bonus. This bonus stacks with any other Natural Armor the character might have.

As the Warmonger becomes more experienced he continues to get tougher. At 5th level the Warmonger gains Damage Reduction 1/-. This Damage Reduction improves by 1 every 3 levels after 5th.

Impromptu Attack: During an attack action the Warmonger can make one more attack with a natural weapon. This attack is made at the Warmonger's full BAB -2. It can be a head butt, a punch, a kick, or any other natural weapon the Warmonger possesses. The damage is normal for the attack mode or 1d4 (plus strength bonus), whichever is greater. This is an additional attack and can be made even if fighting with two-weapons, a weapon and a shield, or even with a two-handed weapon, and can occur at any point in the attack action (i.e. before, after or in-between other attacks).

At 13th level, this additional attack can be made with any weapon the Warmonger is wielding, or any special attack mode the Warmonger has (ie breath weapon, standard action or less spell, spell-like ability, etc.)

At 20th level the Warmonger can make a second such attack, also at a -2 penalty.

Improved Unarmed Strike: The Warmonger receives Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat at first level.

Mobility, the Key to Victory: Infantrymen throughout the ages will testify that light armor is a much better choice than heavy armor when fighting on foot; full plate is for fighting from horseback! As a Warmonger gains experience, he becomes more mobile and able to dodge blows. At 1st level he benefits from a +1 dodge bonus to AC. This bonus applies anytime he could apply his DEX bonus to his AC.

Add 1 to this Dodge bonus every odd level after 1st.

Heavy armor interferes with the Warmonger's ability to dodge blows. Subtract the Armor Check Penalty of any armor and/or shield the Warmonger wields from his Mobility Dodge Bonus (minimum 0).

Fighter Bonus Feats: At 2nd level, and every two levels after 2nd, the Warmonger can select a bonus feat from the list available to Fighters for which he meets the prerequisites. In addition, the Warmonger qualifies for feats restricted to Fighters using his Warmonger class level.

Impromptu step: Mobility is often the key to victory. Starting at 2nd level the Warmonger can forgo an Impromptu Attack (see above) to instead take a 5 foot step.

Battle Wizened: Winning a fight has as much, if not more, to do with wisdom as it does with brawn. The Warmonger sees more combat than most other classes. Because of this, his knowledge of battle is unparalleled. To reflect this, starting at 3rd level the Warmonger adds his Wisdom bonus to his attack and damage rolls, and to Strength checks,
Dexterity checks, and checks involving skills based on Strength or Dexterity, such as Hide, Climb, and Jump. Every 4 levels after 3rd, the Warmonger gets an additional +1 bonus.

Heroic Body: Constant battle and carrying around loads of armor and weapons tends to make one as strong as an ox. At 10th level and again at 20th level the Warmonger can add a +2 Inherent bonus to either his Strength or Constitution score. The Warmonger can add +2 to the same stat each time or he can add +2 to one at 10th level and +2 to the other at 20th level (for example, he could add +2 to CON at 10th level and +2 to Strength at 20th level, or he could add +2 to Strength at 10th level and at 20th level, etc.)

barna10
2013-03-07, 10:16 PM
<reserved>

inuyasha
2013-03-07, 10:18 PM
well this is awesome, im actually not sure of the changes i would make...i dont really have any...

barna10
2013-03-07, 10:33 PM
well this is awesome, im actually not sure of the changes i would make...i dont really have any...

Thanks for the review!

Realms of Chaos
2013-03-07, 10:40 PM
Hmmm... not too bad as fighter fixes go. A few notes, though.

First, combat focus is vague as I can't tell what you mean by penalty. It's clear that you can have penalties to your attack rolls, saving throws, or skill checks. It's also possible to have penalties to your ability scores (see ray of enfeeblement). The way that you refer to poison specifically, however, I am lead to believe that you are talking about ability damage + ability drain as well, which just isn't referred to as a "penalty" in most cases (I'm not sure if there's a word for what you're looking for). Furthermore, I can't tell what a success really does (does a shaken creature using it have to choose whether they fight off the save or skill or attack penalty or do they fight off all three by an equal amount, for example?).

On the topic of combat focus, I'm not sure if making it a free action is actually such a good idea, as doing so would let you try infinite times until you get a natural 20. You may want to start with a standard action at level 1, reduce to a move action at level 9, and end as a swift action at level 17. On the other end, you may want to remove that last sentence altogether as gradually fighting off a large penalty over time seems fair.

Continuing on combat focus, does it work on penalties that you willingly take in order to perform actions? Does it work on racial penalties (such as penalties to ability scores)? Does it work with flaws (removing the entire point of flaws in the first place). Also, you may want to change the duration to "until the end of the encounter" instead of until the current task is done (a more nebulous definition that might be hard to ascertain).

Finally, one possible consideration on combat focus is that many people working on similar mechanics give the fighter the ability to fight off conditions that aren't penalties (such as fear or paralysis).

barna10
2013-03-07, 10:56 PM
Hmmm... not too bad as fighter fixes go. A few notes, though.

First, combat focus is vague as I can't tell what you mean by penalty. It's clear that you can have penalties to your attack rolls, saving throws, or skill checks. It's also possible to have penalties to your ability scores (see ray of enfeeblement). The way that you refer to poison specifically, however, I am lead to believe that you are talking about ability damage + ability drain as well, which just isn't referred to as a "penalty" in most cases (I'm not sure if there's a word for what you're looking for). Furthermore, I can't tell what a success really does (does a shaken creature using it have to choose whether they fight off the save or skill or attack penalty or do they fight off all three by an equal amount, for example?).

On the topic of combat focus, I'm not sure if making it a free action is actually such a good idea, as doing so would let you try infinite times until you get a natural 20. You may want to start with a standard action at level 1, reduce to a move action at level 9, and end as a swift action at level 17. On the other end, you may want to remove that last sentence altogether as gradually fighting off a large penalty over time seems fair.

Continuing on combat focus, does it work on penalties that you willingly take in order to perform actions? Does it work on racial penalties (such as penalties to ability scores)? Does it work with flaws (removing the entire point of flaws in the first place). Also, you may want to change the duration to "until the end of the encounter" instead of until the current task is done (a more nebulous definition that might be hard to ascertain).

Finally, one possible consideration on combat focus is that many people working on similar mechanics give the fighter the ability to fight off conditions that aren't penalties (such as fear or paralysis).

Good points, thanks!

My intent was for penalties to hit and checks, not ability damage. I would allow the ability to offset the penalty imposed by a flaw such as shaky. To me it makes sense as I have witness guys with palsy that learned to compensate for it when sparring or shooting certain weapons. I'll reword it.

I worded it as "until the current task is completed" because I intended it to work for situations that aren't encounters. One of the examples I gave was a climbing a cliff, but it could also be marching 50 miles.

You are correct on combat focus and actions, I'll change it a bit.

Thanks again!

barna10
2013-03-07, 10:59 PM
reworded Battle Focus

Battle Focus: Battle is chaos mixed with blood, loud noises, and constant stress. This conditions the fighter to ignore distractions and other set-backs to focus on his task. Whenever the Fighter is suffering from penalties to hit, damage, AC, skills, checks, or saves from any source (from the environment, spells, poison, etc.), he may make a Concentration check to attempt to ignore some of the penalties until the current task is completed (the battle ends, the wall is climbed, he makes it to the surface, etc.). Initially, this check is a full-round action. At 9th level it becomes a standard action and at 17th level it becomes a Swift action. The benefit from the ability is determined by a concentration check. The DC of the check is 15. Success means the total penalties the Fighter is suffering from is reduced by 1. For every 10 points he makes the check by, the penalties are reduced by 1 more (25 or more equals a -2 reduction, 35 or more equals a -3 reduction, etc.) The Fighter can make the check as often as once per round. However, if he makes another check, the benefit is determined by the most recent roll, even if it is worse than a previous one.

barna10
2013-03-08, 12:07 AM
I added the Impromptu Step ability and modified the Impromptu Attack ability:

Impromptu Attack: During an attack action the Fighter can make one more attack with a natural weapon. This attack is made with a -2 penalty to the attack roll. It can be a head butt, a punch, a kick, or any other natural weapon the fighter possesses. The damage is normal for the attack mode or 1d4 (plus strength bonus), whichever is greater. This is an additional attack and can be made even if fighting with two-weapons, a weapon and a shield, or even with a two-handed weapon, and can occur at any point in the attack action (i.e. before, after or in-between other attacks).

At 13th level, this additional attack can be made with any weapon the Fighter is wielding, or any special attack mode the fighter has (ie breath weapon, standard action or less spell, spell-like ability, etc.)

At 20th level the Fighter can make a second such attack, also at a -2 penalty.

Impromptu step: Mobility is often the key to victory. Starting at 2nd level the Fighter can forgo an Impromptu Attack (see above) to instead take a 5 foot step.

barna10
2013-03-08, 12:32 PM
Forgot one of the main features of the class!

Mobility, the Key to Victory: Infantrymen throughout the ages will testify that light armor is a much better choice than heavy armor when fighting on foot; full plate is for fighting from horseback! As a fighter gains experience, he becomes more mobile and able to dodge blows. At 1st level he benefits from a +1 dodge bonus to AC. This bonus applies anytime he could apply his DEX bonus to his AC.

Add 1 to this Dodge bonus every odd level after 1st.

Heavy armor interferes with the Fighter's ability to dodge blows. Subtract the Armor Check Penalty of any armor and/or shield the Fighter wields from his Mobility Dodge Bonus (minimum 0).

Djinn_in_Tonic
2013-03-08, 02:09 PM
I want to like this. I really do. You have some cool ability ideas in Battle Focus and Impromptu Attack (Impromptu Step is likewise awesome), but ultimately I can't say this does a lot to help the Fighter.

The reasoning behind this is that you've just given him numbers boosts. In interesting ways, yes. But Battle Focus is just a way of reducing penalties which may or may not be afflicting you, Impromptu Attack just adds damage, Mobility, the Key to Victory adds flat AC (although I really like the way you subtract the armor check penalty from the bonus: it's an elegant way of making lighter armor strong), Battle Hardened is just damage reduction (which is effectively free HP), Battle Wizened is a numerical increase, and Heroic Body is a flat stat boost.

In short, Impromptu Step is the only really cool new ability that gives the Fighter more options. Battle Focus could, but you'd have to structure it to be closer to Iron Heart Surge than the current penalty-reducer it is. The rest, while well executed, are just making the Fighter's numbers go up, which, while it helps him a little, doesn't really solve any of his real problems.

I'm also unsure if Impromptu Attack triggers just once during a full attack, or if it triggers one during a full attack per attack you make, or if it doesn't trigger them at all. Might want to specify that and, when you do, specify if the extra attacks are made at your highest bonus -2 or at the bonus of whatever attack you choose to trigger them on. I'm not sure quite what you intended with this interaction.


*****

This is a nice and simple boost to the Fighter's numerical power, but it doesn't do a lot to help him out of Tier 5, let alone out of Tier 4. You probably just eeked into Tier 4 with the improved skill list and numbers boost, but the Fighter still struggles in all the areas he struggled before: his numbers are just beefed up a bit to help him accomplish that limited job with a bit less effort. So kudos for the simplicity and the few cool implementations of these numbers, but I think this fix falls short of the stated goal: the Fighter is still extremely short on options, very inflexible, and lacks the tools to deal with almost any non-direct combat situation (direct combat being defined here as standing toe-to-toe with something and whacking away until one of you is dead).

barna10
2013-03-08, 05:21 PM
I see your point on needing to clarify the wording on Impromptu Attack. Thanks for the review.

That being said, I wanted the class to rule the battlefield, plain and simple. He sol es problems by beating the crap out of stuff , and is good at it. He doesn't make apologies for not being a mage.

Also, thanks for the compliments regarding the new abilities.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2013-03-08, 05:27 PM
I see your point on needing to clarify the wording on Impromptu Attack. Thanks for the review.

Any time! :smallbiggrin:


That being said, I wanted the class to rule the battlefield, plain and simple. He solves problems by beating the crap out of stuff , and is good at it. He doesn't make apologies for not being a mage.

So long as you're okay with him being Tier 4-5, and thus being outclassed by Warblades, Swordsages, Crusaders, Battle Clerics, Polymorphed Wizards, Psychic Warriors, Duskblades, and the other Tier 1-3 melee builds, you're fine. I was merely pointing out that increasing numerical strength alone will not raise the Fighter to the Tier 3 class your original post seemed to desire. He is indeed a better Fighter than the old Fighter, if not by a huge amount.


Also, thanks for the compliments regarding the new abilities.

:smallbiggrin:

barna10
2013-03-08, 11:49 PM
So long as you're okay with him being Tier 4-5, and thus being outclassed by Warblades, Swordsages, Crusaders, Battle Clerics, Polymorphed Wizards, Psychic Warriors, Duskblades, and the other Tier 1-3 melee builds, you're fine. I was merely pointing out that increasing numerical strength alone will not raise the Fighter to the Tier 3 class your original post seemed to desire. He is indeed a better Fighter than the old Fighter, if not by a huge amount.

I'm not sure about this. Of course he'll be outclassed in mass battles and at a distance, but toe-to-toe he would be a force to be reckoned with. I'd love to take one up against an equal level melee type of any flavor. All other things being equal besides class, I'll bet he does quite well.

barna10
2013-03-08, 11:50 PM
Changed the name to The Warmonger and added immunity to fear at 4th level.

Added text about bonus feats.

Drogorn
2013-03-09, 10:21 AM
I'm not sure about this. Of course he'll be outclassed in mass battles and at a distance, but toe-to-toe he would be a force to be reckoned with. I'd love to take one up against an equal level melee type of any flavor. All other things being equal besides class, I'll bet he does quite well.

The tier system is not about power. An ubercharger would ruin this guy's day easily, and the ubercharger would still be tier 4.

barna10
2013-03-09, 03:54 PM
The tier system is not about power. An ubercharger would ruin this guy's day easily, and the ubercharger would still be tier 4.

I've never seen an ubercharger build. Do you have an example you could share?

Djinn_in_Tonic
2013-03-09, 04:20 PM
I've never seen an ubercharger build. Do you have an example you could share?

Don't have a link handy, but it's a build high has an outrageous to-hit bonus an deals enough damage to instantly drop the Tarrasque far into the negatives. Depending in the build it can increase this damage further by exponential amounts.

It's a Tier 4-5 build. Just a very overpowered one.

barna10
2013-03-09, 05:11 PM
Not really worried about comparing a base class to an optimized mutt build.

This class will be fun to play and plenty tough straight out-of-the-box, and that was my main goal, always is. So, mission accomplished and on to the next one!

Drogorn
2013-03-09, 05:33 PM
Not really worried about comparing a base class to an optimized mutt build.

This class will be fun to play and plenty tough straight out-of-the-box, and that was my main goal, always is. So, mission accomplished and on to the next one!

You completely missed my point. That crazy overpowered ubercharger build? It's still tier 4. This is because it, like this fighter fix, has no versatility. It does one single thing well, and is useless in any other situation. The reason things like the Tome of Battle classes are higher tier is because they can actually contribute in situations where something other than "hit it with a stick" is the correct course of action.

How many of this fighter's enemies will be able to fly for example? How will he deal with them?

barna10
2013-03-09, 09:16 PM
How many of this fighter's enemies will be able to fly for example? How will he deal with them?

How does a Warblade deal with a flying enemy? Not trying to be confrontational, I'm genuinely curious.

barna10
2013-03-10, 07:13 PM
Changed DR to improve every 3 levels instead of every 5.

Added Improved Unarmed Strike at 1st level to prevent attacks of opportunity when using Impromptu Attack.