A LOT of minor class tweaks

[Grod_The_Giant]

Little tweaks to things that bug me. Or, if you'd prefer to think of it that way, low-impact balance adjustments. (Links to full-on fixes for my benefit as much as anyone else's)

General

Any class with 2+Int skill points is bumped up to 4+Int.
And class missing Listen, Spot, or Profession has it added to their list of class skills.
When determining skill points per level, your Int modifier always counts as at least +0-- a negative Int modifier cannot reduce the number of skill points you gain at level-up below whatever is the default for your class.
Classes do not have multiclass or (apart from paladin) alignment restrictions.
Material components without cost just aren't a thing. Strike them from existence. Strike spell component pouches from existence. Strike Eschew Materials from existence. It's just not a thing that happens. The only spells that require material components are those with a listed price.


Archivist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12623421&postcount=2)
Becomes an ACF of the wizard:

Access to Sorcerer/Wizard list traded for the Cleric list
d4 Hit Die improved to 1d6
Gains simple weapon and light armor proficiency.



Artificer-- I don't know enough about the class to suggest a fix. Don't allow XP/crafting cost cheese?


Effective caster level is equal to his artificer level, not his level+2
Retain Essence can only refill your crafting reserve-- any additional points are simply lost.
Ditch Metamagic Spell Trigger
Disable Trap = Trapfinding

Houserule for games with no experience: double the size of the craft reserve


Bard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316124)


Increase his HD to a d8
Be sure to allow access to the whole range of ACFs
Remove all feats, items, spells and such that boost Inspire Courage. Instead, have the bonus granted from all bard songs be equal to one-half his level or his Charisma modifier, whichever is lower.



Barbarian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=328113)


No Illiteracy.
When raging, gains DR/-- equal to the Strength bonus and stacking with class-granted DR.
Greater Rage at 7th level, Mighty Rage at 14th, and "Perfect Rage" (Str/Con +10, Will +5) at 20th
Tireless Rage at 11th level
Infinite Rages at 20th level
Gains a fighter bonus feat every fourth level
Gain a bonus to Strength checks equal to your class level.



Beguiler


Casting based on Charisma, not Intelligence.
Advanced Learning at 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th.
Advanced Learning spells may be any sorcerer/wizard spell, at the default level



Binder


Expel Vestige is an inherent class feature now, usable 1/2 Charisma modifier times per day. The -10 penalties stack.
A feat, Improved Expel Vestige, reduces the penalties by 1/2 your binder level, rounded up.
Abilities with a 5-round cooldown instead move to a d4 round cooldown, similar to a dragon's breath weapon.
You may bind 1 vestige/5 class levels, minimum 1 (ie, one vestige at 1st, two at 5th, three at 10rd, etc)



Cleric (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319556)


Becomes a spontaneous caster, who knows all spells from his deity's domains. (5 of them-- pick and choose if he has more, or pick related domains if he has fewer).
At 1st level, he gets the granted power from one domain. At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th he gets another.
At every even-numbered level, he can add one spell from the Cleric list to his list of spells known. The spell cannot be listed under a domain his deity disapproves of-- a cleric of Pelor couldn't learn Animate Dead, for example.

Clerics of a cause should work with their DM to pick out 5 thematically relevant domains, most likely including at least one alignment domain.



Crusader
Can take a standard action to restart his maneuver-granting chain thingie

Dragonfire Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15167076)


Improve his BAB to medium, and grant proficiency with light and heavy picks.
Level out breath weapon damage to 1d6/2 levels
Learns 2 invocations/3 class levels, minimum 1-- see medium BAB for the progression.
Beginning at 4th level, you take a move action to inhale, increasing either the save DC of your breath weapon by 1/4 your class level, or the damage to 1d6/class level. Doing so prevents you from using your breath weapon again for 1d4 rounds. You may apply metabreath feats to your weapon when using this option At 8th level, you may do so as a swift action, and at 16th, you may do so as a free action.



Dragon Shaman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15167076)


Improve his BAB to full
Improve his breath weapon damage to (3/4 level) d6 (as the medium BAB progression.)
Gain a bonus [Draconic] or Metabreath feat at 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level.
Draconic Aura bonus equal to his Charisma modifier or the number shown on the table, whichever is higher.
Double all natural armor bonuses
Gain wings at 10th level, but with clumsy maneuverability.
At 19th level, your fly speed improves to 120 feet, with good maneuverability, and you may fly with a medium load at no penalty, and a heavy load at half speed. You also have an overland movement speed as a dragon.



Dread Necromancer


Fear aura lasts for one minute/level
Advanced Learning at 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th.
Advanced Learning spells may be any sorcerer/wizard spell, at the default level



Druid (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=321588)


Add Knowledge (Geography) to their class list.
Use the Shapeshift variant in the PHBII
Becomes a spontaneous caster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm), although he knows +1 spell/ spell level more than the table indicates.
You still get an Animal Companion from the original list, but he progresses as a familiar. You must take a feat ("Improved Animal Companion") to get a creature from the higher level lists.



Duskblade

Add Balance, Handle Animal, Profession, Listen, Spot, and Use Magic Device to skill list, boost points to 4+ Int
Add Detect Magic, Read Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Message, and Mending to the list of 0-level spells, and ditch Arcane Attunement
Advanced Learning at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th levels, learning a single sorcerer/wizard spell of any school from any level up to 1 level lower than the highest level of spell you can currently cast.
Duskblades know all spells on their list, and cast them spontaneously

As a variant option, have your spellcasting based on Charisma and Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, and Intimidate to skill list, replacing Decipher Script, all Knowledge skills but (Arcana).

Factotum


You have Inspiration Points equal to your 1/4 your level (rounded down) + your Intelligence Modifier (min 1). At the start of a fight, you regain all expended points; otherwise you regain one every five minutes.
The Font of Inspiration feat adds a flat two Inspiration Points, and may only be taken once.
Cunning Strike adds 1d6 Sneak Attack damage per three levels. You may spend multiple points to add the damage to multiple attacks in a round, but not to add extra damage to the same attack.



Favored Soul

Knowledge (Religion) replaces (Arcana)
All spellcasting is based off either Charisma or Wisdom (your choice at character creation)


Fighter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276280)

Revised Class Skills: The fighter’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering), Knowledge (History), Listen (Wis), Martial Lore (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex).
6+Int skill points/level.


When he takes any fighter bonus feat which grants a static bonus (such as Weapon Focus or Dodge), the bonus is equal to the original number of 1/4 his fighter level, whichever is higher.
When qualifying for fighter bonus feats, he may treat his ability scores as if they were a number of points higher than they are equal to one-half his fighter level. Thus, an 4th level fighter with a Dexterity of 13 could qualify for feats like Two-Weapon Fighting which require Dexterity 15.
Gain a bonus to Strength checks equal to one-half your class level.
At 10th level, you may make a full attack as a standard action.
At 15th level, you may make a full attack any time you could normally make one attack, such as on an attack of opportunity.
Gain the benefits of the Zhentarim Soldier ACF (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a).
Gain the benefits of the Dungeoncrasher ACF without giving up your bonus feats.
Gain the benefits of the fighter ACFs from the PHB 2 at one level lower than indicated, and without giving up bonus feats. They're also activated with a standard action, not a free action.



Healer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133118)


All spells and abilities key off Wisdom
Spontaneous casting from their entire list, as a Warmage, Beguiler, or Dread Necromancer.
At 4th level, and every subsequent level, they may add one Cleric spell to their list of spells known. The spell cannot deal hit point damage (such as searing light) or cause pain (such as wrack) to its target), and cannot have the [evil] descriptor. Spells learned this way are one level higher than they originally are.
Healing Hands also adds Healer level.
Cleanse [X] abilities may be used [Wis Mod] times/day
10 levels after they are gained, Cleanse abilities may be used [level] times/day
New Limb may be used [Wis Mod] times/day



Hexblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275279)


Hexblades know all spells on their list, and cast the spontaneously.
Hexblades get one spell per day per spell level more than shown on the table.
His curse may be used once every 1d4 rounds as a swift action. If an opponent successfully saves, the curse is not considered used.
Curse applies to all die rolls made by the target, and all rolls made against them, although only once on opposed rolls.
Bonus feats every 4 levels, and may select fighter bonus feats as well as the limited list presented.
At 9th level, curse recharge time improves to 1d4-1 rounds (minimum 1 round), and at 17th to 1d4-2 rounds (minimum 0 rounds)
At 11th level, he may expend his curse to cast a spell as a swift action.



Incarnate


Boost their BAB to medium (as the cleric)
Double the number of times per day Rapid Meldshaping may be used.
Perfect Meldshaper may be used [Wis Mod] times per day.



Knight

(Some credit to Ziegander for ideas)

Good Fortitude save
4+Intelligence Modifier skill points/level; add Bluff, Craft, Diplomacy, Knowledge (History), Listen, Profession, Sense Motive, and Spot to the list of class skills.
Tower Shield proficiency
Upon using your Knight's Challenge against a foe, you gain an amount of smite attempts equal to your Charisma modifier that may be use against that foe. Any melee attack against the challenged foe may be turned into a smite attempt. When smiting, you may add your Charisma modifier to attack rolls and ignore the foe's damage reduction, in addition to the bonus damage described below.

{table]Opponent's CR| Bonus Damage
Level -2 to Level| Knight level
Level +1 to Level +2| One and a half times knight level
Level +3 and up| Two times knight level[/table]

Armor Mastery (Medium) applies to the penalties from tower shields as well as armor.
Mount- At 2th level, a knight gains the services of a special mount. This mount is normally a heavy warhorse. Treat it as a druid's animal companion, without the Share Spells ability and with an effective druid level equal to your knight level. A knight may replace an unwanted or fallen mount with a week of intensive training. If he doesn't have time for intensive training, his mount still gains the first step of benefits, and gains one additional "step" on the table for each week it spends in the knight's service.
Strike of Denial (Ex)- Beginning at 7th level, any foe successfully struk by one of the Knight's attacks of opportunity must halt his movement for the turn.
Righteous Indignation (Ex): Starting at 11th level, whenever a creature within the Knight's reach attacks one of the Knight's allies, that creature provokes an attack of opportunity from the Knight. For the purpose of this ability, any non-harmless, targeted spell, ability, or effect counts as an attack.
Fast Reach (Ex)- Beginning at 13th level, a Knight threatens creatures in melee as though his reach were 5ft further.
Improved Strike of Denial (Ex): Starting at 15th level, a Knight's attacks of opportunity resolve before the provoking action, and should such an attack hit, the provoking action fails entirely, spent with no effect.
Master Shield Ally (Ex)-- At 18th level, a knight's Shield Ally ability improves still more. As an immediate action, he may move up to (five times his Strength modifier) feet in order to place himself adjacent to an ally being attacked.



Marshal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276280)

Use my Fighter Fix and play a Leader. Alternately:

Upgrade BAB to full
Lose Skill Focus (Diplomacy)
Double the bonus from Major Auras
Fighter bonus feats every third level.
Grant Move Action may be used as a swift action once every d4 rounds.
At 9th level, allies moving due to Grant Move Action don't provoke attacks of opportunity while doing so.
At 10th level, once per encounter, you may grant an additional standard action to one ally as a move action. At 15th level, you may do so twice per encounter, and at 20th level three times.



Monk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14783115)


Full BAB
Flurry of Blows may be used with any standard or full attack, or replaced with Skirmish (as the scout)
May use Wisdom in place of Strength for attack and damage rolls with unarmed strikes and special monk weapons, and when attempting combat maneuvers, starting at first level.
Slow Fall negates all falling damage-- at level 4, as long as you are within arm's reach of a wall; at level 8, as long as you are within arm's reach of a wall or make a Tumble check with a DC equal to half the fall distance; and at level 14 you never take falling damage as long as you are not helpless.
You can allow any spell you want to bypass the SR from Diamond Soul, which is also boosted to 15+level.
Abundant Step is useable every (10-Wis Mod, min 1) rounds.
Quivering Palm may be used Wisdom Modifier times per day, as a standard action, but targets who save can't be targeted again for 24 hours. It affects Constructs and Undead. It's a touch attack that inflicts full damage as well as the death effect. You must declare the time delay before death at the time you make the attack.
Empty Body may be used for 1 minute/level/day, distributed however you wish.
Perfect Self grants DR 10/chaos, a +4 perfection bonus to all abilities, and turns you into an Outsider (native), allowing you to still be raised from the dead.



Ninja


Ki may be used class level plus Wisdom modifier times per day
Replace Sudden Strike with Sneak Attack
Free Weapon Finesse feat at 1st level
Abilities that last for 1 round (Ghost Step, Ki Dodge) instead last for Wisdom modifier rounds
Acrobatics grants a bonus equal to your class level
Gain Evasion at third level, and Improved Evasion at 12th
At 9th level, gains Death Attack, as the assassin ability, with the save DC equal to 10 + 1/2 Ninja level + Wis mod. At 13th level, he only needs to study a foe for two rounds to use the ability, and at 17th level he only needs one round of study time.



Pal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12150015#post12150015)adin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14783115)


Smite does Charisma Mod+1d6/level damage, and may be used once every 1d4 rounds.
Lay on Hands is replaced by the Dragon Shaman's Touch of Vitality ability. You may also heal diseases by spending 15 points of healing.
Spellcasting based on Charisma. He knows all the spells on his list, and may cast them spontaneously. +1 spell/level/day, starting at the first level a spell level becomes available. CL = paladin level -3
At 7th level, he may expend a smite attempt to cast a paladin spell as a swift action. The Battle Blessing feat does not exist.
At 9th level, smite recharge time improves to 1d4-1 rounds (minimum 1 round), and at 17th to 1d4-2 rounds (minimum 0 rounds)


Or, use a proper fix


Psion- As an alternate option, you may base manifesting on Wisdom or Charisma.

Psionic Warrior- As an alternate option, you may base manifesting on Charisma.

Ranger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234888)


Favored Enemy grants an insight bonus equal to one-fourth your ranger level plus your Wisdom modifier to all attack rolls, damage rolls, and skill checks made against your favored enemy. Selecting an already-favored enemy again raises the bonus to 1/2 level, and a third selection to your full ranger level.
Knows all the spells on his list, and may cast them spontaneously; CL equals ranger level -3. +1 spell/level/day, starting from the first level they get access to spells of that level.
Animal Companion as a druid 3 levels lower instead of as a druid of half your level



Rogue (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259254)


Improve hit die to a d8
Gain Darkstalker as a bonus feat at 6th level
Gain Hide in Plain Sight at 9th level



Samurai- it's a re-fluffed Knight

Shadowcaster
Use the creator's suggested fixes (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?184955-Shadowcaster-fixes-by-Mouseferatu)

Shugenja- fine

Sorcerer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12623413&postcount=1)

Gain bonus Heritage feats at 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level.
At 4th level, and every subsequent even-numbered level, he may exchange one spell he knows for another spell of an equal or lower level. The exchanged spell may be of any level up to one level lower than the highest level spell he can cast.
Gain Rapid Metamagic as a bonus feat at 8th level


Scout (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234888)

Spring Attack or Shot on the Run as a bonus feat at 2nd level, ignoring prerequisites. Bounding Assault (or an equivalent ranged feat) at 8th, and Rapid Blitz (or an equivalent ranged feat) at 15th.
Beginning at 9th level, no attacks of opportunity from moving.


Soulborn


Add Sense Motive and Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) to their skill list. In addition, alignment no longer determines their bonus skill-- all Soulborn get Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, and Intimidate.
Smite Opposition does Charisma Mod+1d6/level damage, and may be used once every 1d4 rounds. At 9th level, this recharge time improves to 1d4-1 rounds (minimum 1 round), and at 17th to 1d4-2 rounds (minimum 0 rounds)
His bonus feats may be drawn from the list of Fighter bonus feats, as well as Incarnum feats.
Share Incarnum Defense is continual and at-will-- it affects all adjacent allies automatically, and for [Cha Mod, minimum 1] rounds after they leave.
He gets additional bonus feats at 15th and 19th levels (continuing the progression).
Gets Rapid Meldshaping as an Incarnate, although he does not get the uses doubled as my Incarnate tweaks describe.


Meldshaping
A Soulborn has the Meldshaping ability of a Totemist 3 levels lower, with the following exceptions:

Save DCs for his soulmelds are based off Charisma, not Wisdom.
Soulborn do not get access to the Totem chackra.
Soulborn may bind to the Crown chakra at 5th level. (effective meldshaping level 2)
He still draws from the list of Soulborn soulmelds.

Otherwise, they follow the Totemist table for access to Chakra binds, Soulmelds/Day, Essentia, and Chakra Binds. Their Meldshaper level is equal to their Soulborn level-3. Thus, a 5th level Soulborn would be able to shape 3 Soulmelds, bind his Crown chakra, have 2 essentia from his class, and a Meldshaper level of 2.

Add the following Soulmelds to their class list:

Bloodwar Gauntlets
Lightning Gauntlets
Incarnate Weapon
Adamant Pauldrons
Vitality Belt


Remove the following Soulmelds from their class list:

ALL Necrocarnate soulmelds
Soulspark Familiar
Illusion Veil
Theraputic Mantle
Arcane Focus
Flame Cincuture



Soulknife (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife)

Pathfinder Conversion:
The 3.5 skill list includes Autohypnosis (Wis), Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (psionics) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Strength), and Tumble (Dex). Upgrade their skill points to 6+Int/level, to compensate for 3.5's less condensed skill list.

It's highly suggested that you take the Gifted Blade ACF-- if you do so, double the number of power points and powers known.

If you stick with the non-manifesting version, gain the following extra abilities:

At 5th level, you may re-shape your mind blade (and, thus, change your assigned mind blade enhancement) with 5 minutes of meditation.
At 10th level, you may charge your Psychic Strike as a Swift action.
At 15th level, you may re-shape your mind blade as a standard action.
At 20th level, you may apply Psychic Strike damage to every attack without taking actions.


Becomes an ACF of Psychic Warrior-- give up the bonus feats in exchange for the following abilities:

Mind Blade-- At first level, you can manifest your mind blade. It takes the form of one melee weapon of your choice (chosen at first level and not changeable without the Shape Mind Blade ability), and has an enhancement bonus equal to one-half your level, rounded down. It is always sized appropriately for you. Manifesting your mind blade is a swift action.
Throw Mind blade-- At second level, you can throw your mind blade, with a range increment of 30 feet. If you are a high enough level to gain multiple attacks, you may make multiple attacks with your thrown mind blade.
Shape Mind Blade[/B-- ]At fifth level, you may shape your mind blade into any melee weapon you're proficient with as a swift action. You may also shape your blade into two light weapons-- if you do so, the total bonus from your mind blade enhancement is shared between the two weapons.
[B]Mind Blade Enhancement Starting at 6th level, you may apply special enhancements to your mind blade in lieu of the enchantment bonus. There is no restriction on the list of properties, although you must follow normal magic weapon rules. Changing the enhancement takes one hour.
Swift Shape Mind Blade-- At 10th level, you may change the shape of your mind blade as a free action, which may even be taken in the middle of a full attack.
Swift Mind Blade Enhancement-- At twelfth level, you may change your mind blade enhancement as a standard action.
Effortless Mind Blade Enhancement-- At twentieth level, you may change the enhancement of your mind blade as a free action, which may even be taken in the middle of a full attack.



Spirit Shaman


Base all aspects of spellcasting off Wisdom
Spontaneous spellcasting, with spells known as a sorcerer.


Swashbuckler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259254)
Play a Warblade and wear light armor, or a rogue.

Swordsage

Adaptive Style as a bonus feat at first level
At 10th level, may use Adaptive Style as a standard action


Totemist


Boost HD to a d10
Add Hide and Move Silently to their skill list, along with Knowledge (Geography)
No Illiteracy.
Rebind Soulmeld may be used twice as often as the table shows.



Truenamer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217713)


Truespeak DCs are never based on 2*CR or 2*HD-- instead, reduce it to being based on unmodified CR or HD.
The Law of Sequence only applies to Utterances used against the same creature. You can use the same utterance on multiple targets just fine.
Decrease penalties from the Law of Resistance by (Int Mod) per hour, to a minimum of 0.
You may automatically speak your own personal Truename.
Gain Knowledge Focus at 2nd level, and every 3th level thereafter (5th, 8th, 11th, and 14th, 17th, and 20th)
Move Speak to the Masses to 10th level
See the Named may be used at will, but the Law of Resistance applies.



Warblade


Hit Die reduced to a d10
Revised skill list: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Local), Listen, Martial Lore, Profession, Sense Motive, Spot, Swim, Tumble, Use Rope
Class features are based off Charisma, not Intelligence
The list of warblade bonus feats includes all fighter bonus feats.
You must spend a move action to regain maneuvers; no more attacking-and-recovering. Starting at 10th level, you may recover as a Swift action.



Warlock

Upgrade his HD to a d8
Add Hide and Move Silently to their list of class skills
His number of invocations known equals his level (see Complete Mage for more choices)
Eldrich Blast deals 1d6/2 levels damage, as a rogue's sneak attack. You may full attack with Eldrich Blast.



Eldrich Essence invocations apply to all attacks in the full attack, but only once per target.
Blast Shape invocations are standard actions, and thus not compatible with full attacking. Eldrich Spear and Hideous Blow are exceptions to this rule.



New ACF: Stalwart Warlock

Upgrade his BAB to full
Proficiency with all martial weapons
Gain the Duskblade's Armored Mage ability, with all its upgrades.
Lose Eldrich Blast
Eldrich Essence invocations may be used with mundane attacks instead of your Eldrich Blast-- as a standard action, make a single attack (melee or ranged) at your highest BAB. If it hits, it deals damage as normal, and the foe is affected by the invocation.



Warmage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219088)


Warmage Edge adds one-half your Warmage level plus your intelligence modifier
Advanced Learning spells may be any sorcerer/wizard spell, at the default level
Advanced Learning at 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th.
Gain a metamagic feat at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level. This replaces the bonus Sudden metamagic feats.
Beginning at 10th level, you may increase the CL cap on evocation spells by an amount equal to your Int modifier-- so with an Int of 20, fireball could deal up to 15d6 damage.


Wilder


Begins with 2 powers known, and learns one new power every level.
Psychic Enervation leaves them shaken instead of dazed, and burns a number of power points equal to twice the original amount surged for.
Elude touch applies to all attacks, not just touch attacks.
Can replace Volatile mind (and subsequent improvements) with psionic bonus feats.



Wizard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12623421&postcount=2)


Wizards are now spontaneous casters. A wizard begins play knowing (2*Int Mod) 0-level spells and (Int Mod) 1st level spells. At each subsequent level, he learns 2 spells of any level he has access to.
Specializing grants +1 CL, +1 DC, and +1 spell known/spell level of your chosen school (learned when you first gain access to that spell level).
A wizard may scribe spells in his spellbook and cast them at will. Casting a spell from his spellbook takes 10 minutes per spell level to cast, or 8 minutes per spell level if from a favored school. Circumstances distracting enough to require Concentration checks require a new check every 10 minutes that the distraction is still going on.
Gain the Archivist's Lore Mastery and Dark Knowledge class abilities.
At 4th level, and every subsequent even-numbered level, he may exchange one spell he knows for another spell of an equal or lower level. The exchanged spell may be of any level up to one level lower than the highest level spell he can cast.



-------------------------------------------------------

For easy reference: entirely new classes


Beastman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16914183#post16914183)-- A shape-shifting barbarian warrior.
Savage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240943)-- An animalistic barbarian slowly morphing into a beast himself. Highly customizable.
Shadow Assassin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218385)-- A stealthy, spell-casting assassin.
Windrunner (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11922343#post11922343)-- A super-fast skirmisher.

[Yakk]

Wizard? Cleric? Rogue? Paladin? Ranger? (all banned?)

[Temotei]

Wizard? Cleric? Rogue? Paladin? Ranger? (all banned?)

The rogue, paladin, and ranger are all in there. :smallconfused:

I'm not a fan of many of these changes, though the increase from 2 + Int skill points to 4 + Int and the inclusion of Listen, Spot, and Profession is nice. Still, those alone don't warrant a post, so...carry on.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Wizard? Cleric? Rogue? Paladin? Ranger? (all banned?)
Rogue, Paladin and Ranger were there.

I've also gone back and added the ones I missed. I think that's everything but the Incarna classes, and I don't know enough about those to want to touch 'em.


I'm not a fan of many of these changes, though the increase from 2 + Int skill points to 4 + Int and the inclusion of Listen, Spot, and Profession is nice. Still, those alone don't warrant a post, so...carry on.
Anything you can put your finger on? Or is it just a personal preference thing?

[Lupus753]

I haven't looked at many of the changes, but I love the Monk. It looks almost exactly what I was planning to do with it.

[Temotei]

Anything you can put your finger on? Or is it just a personal preference thing?

It's mostly a feeling thing. Nothing against the homebrew itself.

On the cleric, it would be all spells known from every one of the deity's domains, right? It's a bit ambiguous, though leaning toward that. The other interpretation I can think of is that the cleric only knows spells from the two domains he or she chooses from the deity's list of domains.

A few things seem to be shoring up bad classes, but then the sorcerer gets boosted. Re-reading the top makes it seem to be just a preference thing for yourself, anyway, so 's'all good.

I like the warlock change.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I haven't looked at many of the changes, but I love the Monk. It looks almost exactly what I was planning to do with it.
Thank you.


On the cleric, it would be all spells known from every one of the deity's domains, right? It's a bit ambiguous, though leaning toward that. The other interpretation I can think of is that the cleric only knows spells from the two domains he or she chooses from the deity's list of domains.
Sorry for the ambiguity-- I've clarified that now.


A few things seem to be shoring up bad classes, but then the sorcerer gets boosted.
The heritage feats aren't that good, but they fit properly into the class, and it's nice to get something for not dropping it like a hot potato as soon as you can enter a PrC.


I like the warlock change.
Thanks.

[bobthe6th]

I'm only going to comment on things that are questionable... just assume if I don't comment on anything that I approve, or I am unqualified to comment on the subsystem.



Barbarian


Double his DR when raging
Greater Rage at 7th level, Mighty Rage at 14th, and "Perfect Rage" (Str/Con +10, Will +5) at 20th
Tireless Rage at 11th level
Infinite Rages at 20th level




The DR is still low... perhaps shift the DR back to start at 4th level? or maybe 1st? then it ends at 6-7(12-14 while raging).


Cleric

hmm... still could use more class features. You know like these bigger domain granted abilities (https://notendur.hi.is/~eth31/ConversionProject/VancianToPsionicsBeta110c.pdf).



Druid


Use the Shapeshift variant in the PHBII
You still get an Animal Companion from the original list, but he progresses as a familiar



Why not make this a cleric ACF? Then make the shapeshift variant a spell, or a specific class.



Monk


Full BAB
Flurry of Blows to any attack, or replace with skirmish
May use Wisdom in place of Strength for all attacks, damage rolls, ability checks, skill checks, and so on, starting at 1st level
Abilities usable once per day are instead useable every 1d4 rounds.
Slow Fall simply negates all falling damage, no questions asked.
You can allow any spell you want to bypass the SR from Diamond Soul, which is also boosted to 15+level.
Quivering Palm may be used Wisdom Modifier times per day, as a full-round action, but targets who save can't be targeted again for 24 hours. It affects Constructs and Undead. It's a touch attack that inflicts full damage as well as the death effect. You must declare the time delay before death at the time you make the attack.
Empty Body lasts for 1 minute/level/day
Perfect Self grants DR 10/chaos, and a +4 perfection bonus to all abilities.



What 1/day abilities count for the 1d4 cooldown time?


[quote]Paladin


Smite does Charisma Mod+1d6/level damage, and may be used once every 1d4 rounds.
Spellcasting based on Charisma. He knows all the spells on his list. CL = paladin level -3
At 7th level, he may expend a smite attempt to cast a paladin spell as a swift action. The Battle Blessing feat does not exist.
Lay on Hands may be recharged Charisma Modifier times per day
Remove Disease may be activated by spending 20 points from Lay on Hands
At 9th level, smite recharge time improves to 1d4-1 rounds (minimum 1 round), and at 17th to 1d4-2 rounds (minimum 0 rounds)



why not make it a proper half caster? add 2 spell levels, and use the bard progression? then give full CL... Also, why not staple on the dragon shaman healing hands ability?



Ranger


Knows all the spells on his list; CL equals ranger level -3
Favored Enemy grants an insight bonus equal to one-fourth your ranger level to all attack rolls and skill checks made against your favored enemy
Animal Companion as is a druid 3 levels lower



See paladin. Also, might be fun to add the shapeshift variant...



Sorcerer

Gain bonus Heritage feats at 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level.
Gain Rapid Metamagic as a bonus feat at 8th level



I think... the sorc could use some other features... like some selectable features to sacrafice spell slots for an effect or something.




Warlock

Gain a free blast shape or eldrich essence invocation at 1st, 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th levels.
May upgrade either Eldrich Blast damage or Hit Die to a d8 at first level.
At 10th level, Eldrich Blast damage dice improve by one step (d6->d8, d8->d10), and again at 20th.
Eldrich Blast deals (2/3 level)d6 damage, as the medium BAB progression.


Hmm... much higher damage(not insanely high but still). The HD or damage die feels weird... Like +1 HP/level, or +1 damage per 3/4level to his main attack.



Warmage


Warmage Edge also adds one-half your Warmage level
Advanced Learning spells may be any sorcerer/wizard spell, at the default level
Advanced Learning at 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th.
Beginning at 10th level, you may increase the CL cap on evocation spells by an amount equal to your Int modifier-- so with an Int of 20, fireball could deal up to 15d6 damage.
Replace the Sudden feats with a bonus metamagic feat of your choice


Warmage Edge is still low damage boost. What about TGs CL*Int Mod/2 to damage spells.




Wizard


Knows 2 spells/level and casts them spontaneously. Can apply metamagic without increasing their casting time. Specializing grants +1 CL, +1 DC, and +1 spell known/spell level.
Spells in his spellbook take 10 minutes per spell level to cast, or 8 minutes per spell level if from a favored school.
Eat the Archivist's Lore Mastery and Dark Knowledge class abilities.



Might be cool if they could spend 10 minutes to change 1 spell of his selection for a spell from his spell book.

[falloutimperial]

Do you mean to say that the Wizard can spontaneously cast 2 spells/ level, and s/he still has prepared spells, or 2 spells/ level only?

[Zman]

I approve of most of this.

[Grod_The_Giant]

The DR is still low... perhaps shift the DR back to start at 4th level? or maybe 1st? then it ends at 6-7(12-14 while raging).
How 'bout I put it like my in-depth fix, where you start with the default DR, and then get a DR boost during rage equal to the Str/Con boost?


hmm... still could use more class features. You know like these bigger domain granted abilities (https://notendur.hi.is/~eth31/ConversionProject/VancianToPsionicsBeta110c.pdf).

Odd-numbered levels, he gets new spell levels. Even-numbered levels, he learns new spells. I'm trying not to add too much to these quick fixes.


Why not make this a cleric ACF? Then make the shapeshift variant a spell, or a specific class.
Druid is distinct enough to stand on its own, methinks. It's iconic and all.


What 1/day abilities count for the 1d4 cooldown time?
Abundant Step and, err... OK, I'll fix that.


why not make it a proper half caster? add 2 spell levels, and use the bard progression? then give full CL... Also, why not staple on the dragon shaman healing hands ability?
Adding too much casting erases the boundary between cleric and paladin, methinks. Good call on the Touch of Vitality, though, thanks.


See paladin. Also, might be fun to add the shapeshift variant...
See response to paladin. And I have my own solution to the shapeshifter base class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213031)...


I think... the sorc could use some other features... like some selectable features to sacrafice spell slots for an effect or something.
Again, low-


Hmm... much higher damage(not insanely high but still). The HD or damage die feels weird... Like +1 HP/level, or +1 damage per 3/4level to his main attack.
The HD boost was for melee 'locks. Now that I think about it, though, I kind of like allowing iterative EB attacks better...


Warmage Edge is still low damage boost. What about TGs CL*Int Mod/2 to damage spells.
Don't forget that they also get to lift the CL cap. And CL*Int/2 is just... silly. Like, at 10th level, that's probably (10*5)/2=+25 damage on every attack. That's much too much bonus damage. I might be persuaded to add CL+Int, but...


Might be cool if they could spend 10 minutes to change 1 spell of his selection for a spell from his spell book.
Maybe with an XP cost as well, but I don't want it to be "like a normal wizard, but even slower.


Do you mean to say that the Wizard can spontaneously cast 2 spells/ level, and s/he still has prepared spells, or 2 spells/ level only?
Basically, he has a list of 2 spells known/level that he can cast spontaneously, with the spells/day shown on his table. He can cast spells from his spellbook at will, but each takes ridiculously long.


I approve of most of this.
For the ones you don't like... personal preference, or balance/play concerns?

[bobthe6th]

How 'bout I put it like my in-depth fix, where you start with the default DR, and then get a DR boost during rage equal to the Str/Con boost?


That is a lot of DR though... I liked the double, it just didn't seem to start early enough.



Druid is distinct enough to stand on its own, methinks. It's iconic and all.


Not really... it is seriously a cleric with nature focused domains. Wildshape/ shapeshift should be spells, and animal companion was always broken.

Always felt extraneous and kinda pointless with the ranger around.


Abundant Step and, err... OK, I'll fix that.

wait, dimension door every 1d4 rounds? I suggest either drooping that to shadow jaunt and co.(50ft with LoS and LoE.), or make that a 10min cool down. Possibly both(50ft teleport every 1d4 rounds, and the option of a longrange version that acts as dimension door and has a long cool down.)



Adding too much casting erases the boundary between cleric and paladin, methinks.

Half casting isn't that much more casting, and it means casting at all levels.

[Grod_The_Giant]

That is a lot of DR though... I liked the double, it just didn't seem to start early enough.
Hmmm...


Not really... it is seriously a cleric with nature focused domains. Wildshape/ shapeshift should be spells, and animal companion was always broken.

Always felt extraneous and kinda pointless with the ranger around.
I like the Druid. <shrug> And he's got quite a few unique spells that it'd be a shame to lose.


wait, dimension door every 1d4 rounds? I suggest either drooping that to shadow jaunt and co.(50ft with LoS and LoE.), or make that a 10min cool down. Possibly both(50ft teleport every 1d4 rounds, and the option of a longrange version that acts as dimension door and has a long cool down.)
Mmm, yeah, I like that.


Half casting isn't that much more casting, and it means casting at all levels
I do like adding 0-level spells to the 4th-level-casters, but... these are simple, low-profile changes, y'know? Nothing that requires me to re-draw a table, and no really new abilities beyond bonus feats, was my rule.

[Empedocles]

I went through a big chunk of these fixes. Very nice work :smallsmile: Feedback for each one I looked at follows:

Bard: Why? I think the bard is fine at d6. This change seems less minor and more...arbitrary.

Barbarian: DR touch is cool and flavorful.

Dragonfire Adept: For this are you saying he can only apply metabreath feats when inhaling? Because if so, that's a great, simple change.

Druid: I don't really like the familiar progression...I know that animal companions are broken, but I feel like there has to be a better way to deal with that. A druid's wolf just shouldnt be the same as a wizard's toad.

Hexblade: Maybe a progression for the curse usage that's a little more consistent then the one you have? (e.g. 1d10 rounds at 1st and down by 1 die every 5 levels, or something)

Knight: Smiting seems random.

Marshal: Probably my favorite fix on here. GREAT work.

Warlock: Second favorite fix on here, probably.

So overall, I love what I see!

[Grod_The_Giant]

Bard: Why? I think the bard is fine at d6. This change seems less minor and more...arbitrary.
Bards are generalists, and... I dunno, a d6 just seems to small. Like I said, some of these are just personal preference. I have vague, nebulous plans for tweaking the bard... it's a good, solid class if you dig through the books and pick the right ACFs and such, which seems wrong... I dunno. One of these days I'll do a proper touch-up.


Barbarian: DR touch is cool and flavorful.
Thanks.


Dragonfire Adept: For this are you saying he can only apply metabreath feats when inhaling? Because if so, that's a great, simple change.
Yup!


Druid: I don't really like the familiar progression...I know that animal companions are broken, but I feel like there has to be a better way to deal with that. A druid's wolf just shouldnt be the same as a wizard's toad.
Fixing animal companions would require a substantially updated progression... beyond the scope of these minor tweaks. And familiars are just easier than animal companions in so many ways...


Hexblade: Maybe a progression for the curse usage that's a little more consistent then the one you have? (e.g. 1d10 rounds at 1st and down by 1 die every 5 levels, or something)
The weird values were taken from levels where you originally got more uses/day of the ability.


Knight: Smiting seems random.
He needed a bit of an offensive buff, especially if fighting sword-and-board as appropriate. I cam see flat bonus damage against the challenged foe, though. Would that seem less random?


Marshal: Probably my favorite fix on here. GREAT work.

Warlock: Second favorite fix on here, probably.

So overall, I love what I see!
Thanks!

[Ziegander]

Personally, the Knight is my favorite of these tweaks. I like everything you've done with it! :)

[Empedocles]

The weird values were taken from levels where you originally got more uses/day of the ability.

Oh okay, makes sense then.



He needed a bit of an offensive buff, especially if fighting sword-and-board as appropriate. I cam see flat bonus damage against the challenged foe, though. Would that seem less random?

Hmm when you put it like that...either way works, really. What sort of flat damage bonus would you give him?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Hmm when you put it like that...either way works, really. What sort of flat damage bonus would you give him?
Maybe something like:

{table=head]Opponent's CR|Bonus Damage
Level -2 to Level|Charisma Modifier
Level +1 to Level +2|Charisma Modifier plus 1/2 level
Level +3 and up|Charisma Modifier plus level[/table]

[Jormengand]

Hmm. No love for the prestige classes?

Not sure why you made the wizard spontaneous, since not being spontaneous is what DEFINES this wizard.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Hmm. No love for the prestige classes?
What, all 516841387354 of them? Sure, give me ten minutes. :smalltongue:


Not sure why you made the wizard spontaneous, since not being spontaneous is what DEFINES this wizard.
Simple answer? Because I, and everyone I've ever gamed with, hate prepared casters.

Slightly more complicated answer is that, from a balance point-of-view, prepared casting is what makes Tier 1 classes Tier 1. You'll notice that the list of prepared casters and T1 classes are pretty much identical. Better, I feel, to ditch the idea entirely. See the link for my full wizard-mod along these lines; the idea is that casting from their spellbooks keeps the "I know all the magics" wizard feel, without letting in the negative "I know just the spell to end this encounter in one round aspect."

[Empedocles]

Maybe something like:

{table=head]Opponent's CR|Bonus Damage
Level -2 to Level|Charisma Modifier
Level +1 to Level +2|Charisma Modifier plus 1/2 level
Level +3 and up|Charisma Modifier plus level[/table]

Ehhh now I feel like the smiting is better, and a bit more flavorful. I think it's better, but either one...

Carry on! :smallbiggrin:

[Jormengand]

Simple answer? Because I, and everyone I've ever gamed with, hate prepared casters.

Play a damn sorcerer or oracle, then. Also, remember that - as V demonstrated in his attempt at fighting the druid as did Z in his attempt at fighting V - that unless you happened to prepare a sonic spell, being able to use it at some point after 8 hours uninterupted rest is not very useful.

[bobthe6th]

Play a damn sorcerer or oracle, then. Also, remember that - as V demonstrated in his attempt at fighting the druid as did Z in his attempt at fighting V - that unless you happened to prepare a sonic spell, being able to use it at some point after 8 hours uninterupted rest is not very useful.

Rope trick... and you can just fill spell slots in 10 min if you leave them open.

I personally agree with the fix. It feels like it fits the classes flavor, and makes gandalf a possible wizard. They can cast any spell... given like 10 minutes. They can also cast a variety of other spells(4 per spell level) in combat.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Play a damn sorcerer or oracle, then. Also, remember that - as V demonstrated in his attempt at fighting the druid as did Z in his attempt at fighting V - that unless you happened to prepare a sonic spell, being able to use it at some point after 8 hours uninterupted rest is not very useful.
I did say several times that some of these tweaks are purely personal preference. What I like, what the people I've played with have liked, what our experiences have been... Your tastes and experiences may well be otherwise, in which case that particular change is not for you.

Personally, I feel like wizards aren't meant to be battle mages. They're the smart ones, with a focus on out-of-combat utility. Need a waterbreathing spell for this adventure? Air walking for that one? Wizard's got you covered. They get a limited selection of spells that they can use in a fight, because everyone in D&D fights, but flexibility out-of-battle is the priority. The spontaneous from the book covers the flexibility-- and the whole "I've got a spell, but we'll need to wait 'til tomorrow before I can cast it" is kind of weird-- and the long casting time means that it's only practical for out-of-battle situations.

[Ziegander]

More features for the Knight?

Righteous Indignation (Ex): Starting at (10th? 11th?) level, whenever a creature within the Knight's reach attacks one of the Knight's allies, that creature provokes an attack of opportunity from the Knight. For the purpose of this ability, any non-harmless, targeted spell, ability, or effect counts as an attack.

Improved Strike of Denial (Ex): Starting at (14th? 15th?) level, a Knight's attacks of opportunity resolve before the provoking action, and should such an attack hit, the provoking action fails entirely, spent with no effect.

Also, the Fast Reach ability should be worded along the lines of, "starting at 13th level, a Knight can make attacks of opportunity as though his reach were 5ft further," or "starting at 13th level, a Knight threatens creatures in melee as though his reach were 5ft further." Something more to that effect.

[Amechra]

Just a note? The medium BAB progression is 3/4ths your level, not 2/3rds.

In other words, you are underselling a few of the progressions (Warlocks should get 15d6 by 20th, not the 13d6 that they are getting under your progression.)

Otherwise, they look pretty decent.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Just a note? The medium BAB progression is 3/4ths your level, not 2/3rds.

In other words, you are underselling a few of the progressions (Warlocks should get 15d6 by 20th, not the 13d6 that they are getting under your progression.)

Otherwise, they look pretty decent.

****. You know, I know that, I've known that for years, and just recently I've started typing the wrong one every dang time. Thanks for the catch. <facepalm>

(Also, Warlocks don't get 13d6 or 15d6 anymore; they get 10d6 and iterative attacks. But the poor Dragon Shaman was robbed)

[Deepbluediver]

I'm still going through the class-specific stuff. Most of it seems good, or at least not objectionable.

But I have a few issues with the general stuff:

Any class with 2+Int skill points is bumped up to 4+Int.

What are you trying to accomplish, exactly? Do you just want to hand out more skill points, or do you want to make it easier for melee to dump Intllect?

Although your idea is (possibly) simpler, I've got an alternative that I think will resolve the issue in an even better fashion-

-The number of skill points you recieve each level is dependent upon your Intellect bonus rather than modifier.

So essentially, you never get fewer skill points than the number listed on your class table, even if your character is as dumb as a sack of rocks.


Any class missing Listen, Spot, or Profession has it added to their list of class skills.

Why? What's the rationale for this? Spot and Listen are useful, true, but I could say much the same thing for ANY skill. There are a fair number of classes that fit the "not very observant" or "leap without looking" archetype.
A better overall fix would be to simply make it easier to by cross-class ranks.

And IMO, Profession should not be a normal skill. You're adventuring; "Adventure" is your profession.
If you want a more detailed idea for a fix/replacement, let me know.

[Grod_The_Giant]

What are you trying to accomplish, exactly? Do you just want to hand out more skill points, or do you want to make it easier for melee to dump Intllect?
More skill points. 2/level is just not enough, basically forcing you to put a good score in Int if you want to be at all useful out-of-combat/without spells. 4/level lets you actually maintain a few skills at useful levels.


Although your idea is (possibly) simpler, I've got an alternative that I think will resolve the issue in an even better fashion-

-The number of skill points you recieve each level is dependent upon your Intellect bonus rather than modifier.

So essentially, you never get fewer skill points than the number listed on your class table, even if your character is as dumb as a sack of rocks.
I do like that, thanks.


Why? What's the rationale for this? Spot and Listen are useful, true, but I could say much the same thing for ANY skill. There are a fair number of classes that fit the "not very observant" or "leap without looking" archetype.
A better overall fix would be to simply make it easier to by cross-class ranks.

And IMO, Profession should not be a normal skill. You're adventuring; "Adventure" is your profession.
If you want a more detailed idea for a fix/replacement, let me know.
Your second critique answers your first. Spot and Listen are key skills for adventurers, and everyone should be able to take them. If you want to play the absent-minded wizard, don't put any ranks in them-- but I consider them vital for any character I build.

Profession is a background skill, and is found on the list of virtually every class (in the SRD, only the Barbarian and Fighter lack it). It bugs me that it's missing to know good reason. And it makes a lot more sense for everyone to have this than for everyone to have Craft, which WotC also gives everyone.


To be entirely honest, I'm in favor of dropping class skills altogether, but that's a bit of a leap for this thread.

[Ziegander]

Did you hate my suggestions for the Knight?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Did you hate my suggestions for the Knight?
D'oh! Sorry.


More features for the Knight?

Righteous Indignation (Ex): Starting at (10th? 11th?) level, whenever a creature within the Knight's reach attacks one of the Knight's allies, that creature provokes an attack of opportunity from the Knight. For the purpose of this ability, any non-harmless, targeted spell, ability, or effect counts as an attack.
I like.


Improved Strike of Denial (Ex): Starting at (14th? 15th?) level, a Knight's attacks of opportunity resolve before the provoking action, and should such an attack hit, the provoking action fails entirely, spent with no effect.
Ooh, classy.


Also, the Fast Reach ability should be worded along the lines of, "starting at 13th level, a Knight can make attacks of opportunity as though his reach were 5ft further," or "starting at 13th level, a Knight threatens creatures in melee as though his reach were 5ft further." Something more to that effect.
Probably, thanks.

...man, this Knight thing is getting big enough that it almost merits its own full-class write-up.

[Ziegander]

D'oh! Sorry.

With all the attention my latest posts have garnered I was starting to think that I had been shunned by the forums in my absence! Heh, I'm just glad you liked them. Yeah, it's not any longer a "minor" tweak like it was.

[magwaaf]

play pathfinder!

patfhinder fighters are fantastic btw.

also we have a huge overhaul for dragon shaman that has made them even more viable and it is posted here

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14876477#post14876477

[Grod_The_Giant]

play pathfinder!

patfhinder fighters are fantastic btw.

also we have a huge overhaul for dragon shaman that has made them even more viable and it is posted here

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14876477#post14876477
Pathfinder fighters solve none of the issues with the 3.5 fighter, apart from adding a few almost insignificantly small bonuses to the odd-numbered levels so there are no dead levels.

Also, no offense, but... ah... it's kind of rude to go into someone else's thread and plug one of your own.



Also, holy crap, the Knight is no longer a quick fix. I think I'ma cut the entry here way back-- a little bonus damage to challenged enemies, the errata'd save, the improved skill list, and a mount-animal-companion-- and post a full rewrite in a separate thread. (Linked fixes are generally preferable to the quick tweaks here)

[Deepbluediver]

I've been going through the classes, and I just wanted to make a few remarks, mostly because I like a lot of this.

Archivist- Am I understanding this right: you are basically a wizard with the Cleric's spell list?
I've never liked the fluff behind the Archivist (or the mechanics, really), but this is mildly better, since I can always just think of it as arcane magic with with different spells.

Artificer- Agreed. You'd need to fix/alter the entire item crafting system first. Let me know if you ever want to tackle that, I've got a few ideas.

Barbarian- Ideally I think it should have more options, but this is both simple and in keeping with the core/RAW feel of the class.

Cleric- I actually really like most of this for a cleric, particularly since it means the choice of diety is much more influential. This is simpler than my version of boosting domain spells and lowering others.
But do you feel that a cleric requires having a diety, or would you allow some one to make up their own cleric with any 5 domains of their choice?

Dragon-whatever- I think we can all agree that dragons are awesome, but do we really need all the different variations of "dragon-wannabe"? What do you think of taking a lot of these and mushing them together? (The two you mention, plus several of the PrCs from various Sources)

Druid- Does he really need an animal companion at all? It really seems like just one more thing to pile on, when you could already make two entirely seperate classes out of the spells and shapeshifting.

Favored Soul- If the cleric is already a spontaneous caster, doesn't that make this class somewhat superfluous?

Healer- In terms of optimization, in-combat healing gets poo-poo'd, but some people like the archetype and don't mind not being Tier-1 or 2. It seems like if you fixed some of the more glaring errors (ranged healing spells, etc) there could be a place for this class. Especially since classic big-healbot classes (cleric, druid) are getting downgraded slightly.

Knight- Personally, I think the Knight should be a prestige class. Fluff-wise, you prove your dedication/loyalty/chivalry, THEN get rewarded for it. Also, it's easier to fill up 10 levels with decent abilities than 20.

Marshal- People say the ToB is the official fighter fix, but I actually think that the Marshal is more how I picture a classic battle-field commander.

Monk- Does this mean you can use Flurry of Blows with AoO?
And I think that it should be a rule for all SR that you can supress it at will.

Ninja- What would you think about giving the ninja the better parts of the Assassin PrC, to help differentiate it from other rogue/thief types?

Ranger- What about basing the favored-enemy bonus on Wisdom? That gives the ability a second benefit besides spellcasting.

Samurai- I agree completely. I've long believed that they fill the same historical/cultural and game niches.

Warlock- Why not just change it to 1 new Invocation per level? That gets you a 66% increase in potential versatility over RAW, while keeping your options open.

Warmage- Is this class really necessary? What niche or role does it fill that can't be accomplished by something else?
I think a better change would be to scrap the whole class, and then alter the Battle Caster feat to not have a prerequisite. The first time you take it it grants casting in light armor, and each subsequent time improves it one step. Then if I want to play a "warmage" I'll just make a sorcerer and take the feat a few times.

Wizard- Personally, I think that the number of schools available to any given wizard needs a serious nerf. Plus, having to make more choices would help differentiate better between different wizards.
In my wizard fix I gave 1 school you can cast from at first level, a second school at 2nd level, a third at 5th level, and a 4th and final school at 10th level (0th level spells are not restricted in this manner). This way, the wizard gains power and versatility GRADUALLY, like other classes, rather than having the entire assortment of all magic thrust upon them right at level one.
Also, I like the casting-from-your-spellbook bit, but I think it should be 1 minute per level; 10 is just too long.


Anything I didn't mention I'm either not familiar enough with to comment on, or I think is just fine the way did it.
Overall I think some classes need a heavier hand to fix, but it terms of simplicity very well done.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Archivist- Am I understanding this right: you are basically a wizard with the Cleric's spell list?
I've never liked the fluff behind the Archivist (or the mechanics, really), but this is mildly better, since I can always just think of it as arcane magic with with different spells.
Ayup. The classes are pretty much identical in terms of mechanics; it makes no sense to have them be distinct.


Artificer- Agreed. You'd need to fix/alter the entire item crafting system first. Let me know if you ever want to tackle that, I've got a few ideas.
I don't really have any intention of tackling the Artificer, if only because I don't have any Eberron books.


Barbarian- Ideally I think it should have more options, but this is both simple and in keeping with the core/RAW feel of the class.
Yup. Check out the linked fix if you want something with options.


Cleric- I actually really like most of this for a cleric, particularly since it means the choice of diety is much more influential. This is simpler than my version of boosting domain spells and lowering others.
But do you feel that a cleric requires having a diety, or would you allow some one to make up their own cleric with any 5 domains of their choice?
Hmm. I'd strongly encourage clerics of a deity, as the other was is just... kind of silly. I'd allow it, but I'd require a lot of pre-game discussion about what domains may be picked, and how exactly he's getting this power. The domains would definitely have to be thematically linked.


Dragon-whatever- I think we can all agree that dragons are awesome, but do we really need all the different variations of "dragon-wannabe"? What do you think of taking a lot of these and mushing them together? (The two you mention, plus several of the PrCs from various Sources)
Mmm. Yeah, I could definitely see combining them. The two have different roles, but they could be put together somehow... DS chassis, DFA invocations and breath effects, auras and healing hands as new invocations...


Druid- Does he really need an animal companion at all? It really seems like just one more thing to pile on, when you could already make two entirely seperate classes out of the spells and shapeshifting.
Did someone say a second class based on shapeshifting (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213031)? I kept the familiar-animal companion mostly because I like having them. They probably don't really need one, but eh. Some of these are personal preference.


Favored Soul- If the cleric is already a spontaneous caster, doesn't that make this class somewhat superfluous?
If I was offering classes for a game? Sure; I'd turn Favored Soul into a sorcerer ACF, with light armor proficiency and casting off the cleric list, maybe a medium BAB in place of a familiar, and a heritage based on their god's alignment. But here, someone might want to pick-and-choose. Besides, this is the only way to really customize divine casting. (OK, this and the Archivist).


Healer- In terms of optimization, in-combat healing gets poo-poo'd, but some people like the archetype and don't mind not being Tier-1 or 2. It seems like if you fixed some of the more glaring errors (ranged healing spells, etc) there could be a place for this class. Especially since classic big-healbot classes (cleric, druid) are getting downgraded slightly.
Mmm. Perhaps. I'll take a look at it.


Knight- Personally, I think the Knight should be a prestige class. Fluff-wise, you prove your dedication/loyalty/chivalry, THEN get rewarded for it. Also, it's easier to fill up 10 levels with decent abilities than 20.
Mmm. Personally, I kind of dislike PrCs to begin with... I'd rather be able to play my character concept from level 1, particularly if it's as common/fundamental/low-powered as a knight. Besides, I'm trying to patch things up for those that like 'em. The only classes I'm rejecting are those whose mechanics are utterly beyond salvation.


Marshal- People say the ToB is the official fighter fix, but I actually think that the Marshal is more how I picture a classic battle-field commander.
Thanks.


Monk- Does this mean you can use Flurry of Blows with AoO?
And I think that it should be a rule for all SR that you can supress it at will.
Hmm. As written, yeah, but that's maybe not optional. The SR thing, though, yeah, good point.


Ninja- What would you think about giving the ninja the better parts of the Assassin PrC, to help differentiate it from other rogue/thief types?
I might tack on Death Attack. The casting isn't really ninja-y though, methinks, and apart from that the PrC doesn't really offer much.


Ranger- What about basing the favored-enemy bonus on Wisdom? That gives the ability a second benefit besides spellcasting.
Good idea.


Samurai- I agree completely. I've long believed that they fill the same historical/cultural and game niches.
I'll just justify the decision here by saying that the reason I scrapped this one was that a) the class is beyond salvation and b) is ridiculously setting-specific. Ninja is at least a pop culture meme, and has some interesting mechanics to it to distinguish it from the competition.


Warlock- Why not just change it to 1 new Invocation per level? That gets you a 66% increase in potential versatility over RAW, while keeping your options open.
That feels like a few too many.


Warmage- Is this class really necessary? What niche or role does it fill that can't be accomplished by something else?
I think a better change would be to scrap the whole class, and then alter the Battle Caster feat to not have a prerequisite. The first time you take it it grants casting in light armor, and each subsequent time improves it one step. Then if I want to play a "warmage" I'll just make a sorcerer and take the feat a few times.
See earlier points about not ditching classes needlessly. Besides, Warmages are great for both newbies and DMs, given their fixed spell lists.


Wizard- Personally, I think that the number of schools available to any given wizard needs a serious nerf. Plus, having to make more choices would help differentiate better between different wizards.
In my wizard fix I gave 1 school you can cast from at first level, a second school at 2nd level, a third at 5th level, and a 4th and final school at 10th level (0th level spells are not restricted in this manner). This way, the wizard gains power and versatility GRADUALLY, like other classes, rather than having the entire assortment of all magic thrust upon them right at level one.
Also, I like the casting-from-your-spellbook bit, but I think it should be 1 minute per level; 10 is just too long.
I think the school availability thing is mitigated by the other nerfs I've done here.
10/level is pretty long, I admit, but spellbook casting is also at-will. I could see taking it down to 5/level, but I'd want to see how cumbersome it would be in actual play first-- I can think of a number of spells that are still really useful even if they take an hour to cast. Another possibility could be to allow multiple spells to be cast in the same ritual at a relatively minor increase in time.


Overall I think some classes need a heavier hand to fix, but it terms of simplicity very well done.
And to those, I have left links. But thank you, both for the suggestions and the praise.

[Deepbluediver]

Mmm. Personally, I kind of dislike PrCs to begin with... I'd rather be able to play my character concept from level 1, particularly if it's as common/fundamental/low-powered as a knight. Besides, I'm trying to patch things up for those that like 'em. The only classes I'm rejecting are those whose mechanics are utterly beyond salvation.

I can understand that. I would say, however, that you can play a knightly-character based on what fluff you choose, without needing levels in "Knight".


I might tack on Death Attack. The casting isn't really ninja-y though, methinks, and apart from that the PrC doesn't really offer much.

I guess it depends on what your inspiration for the "Ninja" is. Are we talking cinema ninjas- thief-ish & sort of like a less disciplined monk? Actual real-life "ninja"- guerilla fighters who definitely did NOT dress all in black?
Are they honorable assassins, mercenaries, or evil outlaws?
Or something else entirely?

I don't normally take my lead from anime, but I was thinking that if I ever did a ninja-rewrite, I would make it a skill-monkey with access to Shadow Magic, to help differentiate it from some of the other non-heavy-melee, non-full casting classes, as well as core Rogues.


That feels like a few too many.

I guess it depends on how many splatbooks you are using; I recently read the Warlock Handbook, which points out that warlocks get an unusually large amount of support, even if splatbook-specific (i.e. anti-incarnum invocations).


See earlier points about not ditching classes needlessly. Besides, Warmages are great for both newbies and DMs, given their fixed spell lists.

Fair enough. But if I'm a newbie, then I'm likely not venturing far outside of core, and a sorcerer-in-armor gets me 90% of the way there. Plus, new players tend to go for the big, flashy (but non-optimized) spells that make up most of the Warmages list anyhow.


I think the school availability thing is mitigated by the other nerfs I've done here.

I went back and reread it, and realized I didn't get all the implications of exactly what you had done. Basically you've nuetered the wizard down to sorcerer levels (which is still pretty powerful).


10/level is pretty long, I admit, but spellbook casting is also at-will.
As I said, I misunderstood exactly what was going on here on my first readthrough; this makes more sense now.


I could see taking it down to 5/level, but I'd want to see how cumbersome it would be in actual play first-- I can think of a number of spells that are still really useful even if they take an hour to cast.

That's partly because spell-duration is one of the many, MANY things about magic that is borked. IMO, very few spells should have a base duration measured in hours/level, let alone days (Charm/Dominate Monster, I'm looking at you).
But I see your point.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I can understand that. I would say, however, that you can play a knightly-character based on what fluff you choose, without needing levels in "Knight".
True, but it's not enough of a reason for me to refuse to touch it.


I guess it depends on what your inspiration for the "Ninja" is. Are we talking cinema ninjas- thief-ish & sort of like a less disciplined monk? Actual real-life "ninja"- guerilla fighters who definitely did NOT dress all in black?
Are they honorable assassins, mercenaries, or evil outlaws?
Or something else entirely?
"Making the class as written useful"


I don't normally take my lead from anime, but I was thinking that if I ever did a ninja-rewrite, I would make it a skill-monkey with access to Shadow Magic, to help differentiate it from some of the other non-melee, non-full casting classes, as well as core Rogues.
That would be pretty cool, actually. You should do it!


I guess it depends on how many splatbooks you are using; I recently read the Warlock Handbook, which points out that warlocks get an unusually large amount of support, even if splatbook-specific (i.e. anti-incarnum invocations).
Oh, there are more than enough invocations for that in CArc alone. I just... just... am offering 18 invocations already... OK, yeah, you're right, this is easier.


Fair enough. But if I'm a newbie, then I'm likely not venturing far outside of core, and a sorcerer-in-armor gets me 90% of the way there. Plus, new players tend to go for the big, flashy (but non-optimized) spells that make up most of the Warmages list anyhow.
Here's how it goes:
New player: I want to play a wizard!
Me: Ok. Casters aren't the simplest, but you're not an idiot, so that's fine. What kind of caster? There are a few options.
Newbie: I kind of just want to kill things with fire.
Me: Well, there's this wonderful class called the Warmage...

Your argument would have me cut all the focused casters, since they're "basically sorcerers." I, on the other hand, think there's not just room but good reason to have caster-in-a-can classes.


That's partly because spell-duration is one of the many, MANY things about magic that is borked. IMO, very few spells should have a base duration measured in hours/level, let alone days (Charm/Dominate Monster, I'm looking at you).
True. But it's also things like teleport, legend lore, scrying... things that need cast occasionally and out-of-battle.

[Deepbluediver]

So I was thinking about stuff, and I noticed that the Truenamer wasn't on your list. I admit that I don't normally go for "simple fixes" for the really broken classes, because simple just doesn't cut it in most of those cases.
But I know some people like the flavor or concept of the class, so what if we used something like this:
full disclosure- I've never actually played a Truenamer, nor has anyone I've gamed with; I've only read about them


Truenamer
All Utterances (the Truenamer's version of spells) now use the same rules as a Warlock's Invocations.

This means that-
Law of Resistance is scrapped
Law of Sequence is scrapped
The Truespeak skill is either scrapped, or just used for the equivalent of Spellcraft checks.
Reveresed versions of Utterances still exist, it's just 2 spells (sort of) for the price of 1.

In addition, the Truenamer can research additional Utterances, like a Wizard with spells. Also, I guess, this might mean the Truenamer could advance in any Invocation-based PrC, if it was worthwhile.



Infinite at-will casting was tried with the Warlock, and most people don't seem to think that was OP. I'm certain that I'm not the first person to suggest something like this, but haven't seen it recently. You can quite quickly get more complicated and put back in SOME limits, but since this thread focuses on the short and simple, I toned my idea down to it's absolute lower limit.

[Grod_The_Giant]

So I was thinking about stuff, and I noticed that the Truenamer wasn't on your list. I admit that I don't normally go for "simple fixes" for the really broken classes, because simple just doesn't cut it in most of those cases.
But I know some people like the flavor or concept of the class, so what if we used something like this:
full disclosure- I've never actually played a Truenamer, nor has anyone I've gamed with; I've only read about them
I love the idea of Truenamers too. I honestly forgot to put 'em on here because I was working off the list of "Why Each Class is in its Tier." Whoops. Let's see...

[QUOTE]Truenamer
All Utterances (the Truenamer's version of spells) now use the same rules as a Warlock's Invocations.
Um. I'm not super-conversant with utterances, but there are a goodly number of healing abilities. And I think the skill-based magic is one of the more interesting parts... hmm...

Maybe make the DC to speak an utterance 10 + CR of target + law of resistance (if it targets a creature) or 10 + utterance level + law of resistance (if it doesn't target a creature). Kill law of sequence-- we already have rules to prevent stacking-- and let the penalty from law of resistance be only a +1. And let you cross off (1/2 ranks in Truename) uses per hour, instead of all magically vanishing at the beginning of the day.

Also, if your Truespeak check beats the DC by 5, you don't have to concentrate on an utterance requiring concentration (reversed Words, I'm looking at you). And for every 5 points you beat the DC, the duration increases by 1 round.

How does all that look? Still doesn't help the fact that so many utterances are utter crap, if you'll pardon the pun, but makes 'em actually useable.

[Deepbluediver]

I love the idea of Truenamers too. I honestly forgot to put 'em on here because I was working off the list of "Why Each Class is in its Tier." Whoops. Let's see...


Um. I'm not super-conversant with utterances, but there are a goodly number of healing abilities. And I think the skill-based magic is one of the more interesting parts... hmm...

I'm no expert with them either, certainly, I had forgotten about Word of Nurturting. PF seems ok with infinite healing (via orisons) but I've never been a fan of that particulary schtick.

On the other thing- I think that requiring some sort of check for spellcasting, all spellcasting, is a great idea. I centered my entire magic fix around this concept. The major difference though, was that it was more like an attack roll rather than a skill check. (and it's still hard to get people to accept because its very different from the standard method) The full description is also several pages long, because that's what it took to balance and account for the myriad of magical options.

For this, I was trying to keep things as simple as possible; my only goal in the original proposal was to shift the Truenamer from bjorked to playable in as few words as possible.


Maybe make the DC to speak an utterance 10 + CR of target + law of resistance (if it targets a creature) or 10 + utterance level + law of resistance (if it doesn't target a creature). Kill law of sequence-- we already have rules to prevent stacking-- and let the penalty from law of resistance be only a +1. And let you cross off (1/2 ranks in Truename) uses per hour, instead of all magically vanishing at the beginning of the day.

Also, if your Truespeak check beats the DC by 5, you don't have to concentrate on an utterance requiring concentration (reversed Words, I'm looking at you). And for every 5 points you beat the DC, the duration increases by 1 round.

Hmm...that does seem like it could work....
The biggest issue I see is that while creature CR is a better determinant than HD, it will still scale a lot faster than Utterance level (which hits a maximum of 5 or 6, I believe). At even medium levels and without cheese, this will mean you can get several uses of those non-targeting Utterances before you even need to start rolling a die on the check.
Even something like "20+Utterance level" probably looks high, but at level 1 you can have an ability modifier of +4, 4 skill ranks, and the Skill Focus feat to give you +11 bonus, so you'll pass half of all checks before LoR kicks in, and it will still get drastically easier as you level up.
An equation that's like "10+3xUtterance level+LoR" has a decent DC curve, but it's also a pain to keep track of. Other options, such as having different calculations for each Lexicon, are even worse.


I'm still brainstorming for a way we can require a check on Truespeaking that's balanced between trivial and absurd, and can be explained in only a paragraph or two. Part of the issue is that when it comes to skill checks, without cheese certain things become impossible for the Truenamer, and with cheese any normal skill check gets blow out of the water (see: Diplomancer)

But if you want to put a cap on daily Utterances, then I offer these revised Laws (use either, neither, or modify them further):
Law of Resistance Version A- You can use any Utterance a number of times per day equal to your Intellect modifier (minimum 1). Each attempt to use that Utterance beyond this number incurs a 10% stacking penalty for the Utterance to simply fail [thereby removing the Skill-check problem]
Law of Resistance Version B- You can use any Utterance a number of times per day equal to your Intellect modifier (minimum 1) [sort of like spells per day]

If you decide to scrap Resistance and bring back Sequence instead, rather than having it cap at just 1, have it cap at a number of Utterances equal to your Intellect bonus instead.

[Evard]

Soo is there a reason you hit the warblade with a nerf bat?

I get the HD stuff, well sort of but the standard action to refresh maneuvers? The reason he doesn't get as many as the swordsage is because he refreshes them faster than said swordsage who can now use adaptive sryle without paying for the feat...

The surge of the battle, striking your foe giving you the energy to exert yourself to perform awesome maneuvers and abilities is what I loved about the warblade's refresh mechanic.

So now my warblade would be standing around doing nothing for a round to get back the only thing that makes him worth playing over a fighter.... Why don't I just play an optimized fighter with my feats going toward maneuvers?
*sigh*

The rest of your stuff looks great, except some of the caster (wiz/cleric) concepts (those aren't minor tweaks but full blown class changes)

I love what you did with the Barbarian's DR, to many people think medium to high DR is game breaking :smallannoyed:

[Grod_The_Giant]

On the other thing- I think that requiring some sort of check for spellcasting, all spellcasting, is a great idea.
Yeah, same here.


For this, I was trying to keep things as simple as possible; my only goal in the original proposal was to shift the Truenamer from bjorked to playable in as few words as possible.
No, it was a good idea, even a workable one, if you add something to limit Word of Nurturing. I just think


The biggest issue I see is that while creature CR is a better determinant than HD, it will still scale a lot faster than Utterance level (which hits a maximum of 5 or 6, I believe). At even medium levels and without cheese, this will mean you can get several uses of those non-targeting Utterances before you even need to start rolling a die on the check.
Oh, good point. CR or twice the utterance level?


I'm still brainstorming for a way we can require a check on Truespeaking that's balanced between trivial and absurd, and can be explained in only a paragraph or two. Part of the issue is that when it comes to skill checks, without cheese certain things become impossible for the Truenamer, and with cheese any normal skill check gets blow out of the water (see: Diplomancer)
Well, you were just proposing that utterances be unlimited. And apart from infinite out-of-battle healing, there's really nothing wrong with that. So going back to a base DC of 15, you make it easy for the optimizer and about even for the non-optimizer.

The trivial vs absurd method is an enormous issue with skill-based magic. Or skill based anything, really-- it's trivially easy to ramp of skills if you optimize, but if you take the optimization into account, you cut off everyone who doesn't optimize to that extent.

Perhaps we could make Truespeak a class feature, instead of a skill-- a modifier of Level+Int. Then, if you break down my original formula, you get
d20 + level + Int|vs|10 + ~level + Law of Resistance.
10.5 + level + Int|vs|10 + ~level + Law of Resistance
10.5 + Int|vs|10 + Law of Resistance
Int|vs|Law of Resistance
Controlled scaling. You'll be able to use low-level abilities easily, and high-level ones reasonably reliably at first, and less often later on. You could make a "Practiced Speaker" feat, have the Amulets of Silver Tongue boost your effective Truespeaker level... it would require changes to the recitation feat DC modifiers, though.


Soo is there a reason you hit the warblade with a nerf bat?
Personal preference, really. I had a warblade in a group I ran, and he always felt just a bit too good-- mostly because of the ability to recover fully with no cost. God knows I'm not a "no nice things for melee" person, but given that encounters are already rarely more than a few rounds... Would a move action be more palatable?

[Deepbluediver]

Oh, good point. CR or twice the utterance level?

The more I think about this, the more I think the best solution is to just strip out any targeting of the creature at all. The DC for every Utterance should have the same formula, and that should be based soley on Utterance level.

Some Utterances might still allow a save, but otherwise it bypasses HD, CR, and even SR all in one go, and the save is being rolled by the target, not the Truespeaker. It can be part of Name-magic's special qualities, and given the other limits on Truespeaking, I don't think it will be OP.


Well, you were just proposing that utterances be unlimited. And apart from infinite out-of-battle healing, there's really nothing wrong with that.

Yes, but it partially depends on what I'm trying to balance around, and I'd forgotten about the healing. There ARE other ways to impose limits besides the RAW LoR-stacking thing.
(and I think I forgot to mention, but I approve of your idea to drop it to 1 per use of an Utterance)


The trivial vs absurd method is an enormous issue with skill-based magic. Or skill based anything, really-- it's trivially easy to ramp of skills if you optimize, but if you take the optimization into account, you cut off everyone who doesn't optimize to that extent.

Agreed. That's why I was seeking ways to seperate it and other forms of magic from skills entirely. Something like an attack roll or ability check is a lot more controllable, which I think is what you where going for in the next bit.


Perhaps we could make Truespeak a class feature, instead of a skill-- a modifier of Level+Int. Then, if you break down my original formula, you get
d20 + level + Int|vs|10 + ~level + Law of Resistance.
10.5 + level + Int|vs|10 + ~level + Law of Resistance
10.5 + Int|vs|10 + Law of Resistance
Int|vs|Law of Resistance
Controlled scaling. You'll be able to use low-level abilities easily, and high-level ones reasonably reliably at first, and less often later on. You could make a "Practiced Speaker" feat, have the Amulets of Silver Tongue boost your effective Truespeaker level... it would require changes to the recitation feat DC modifiers, though.

So, yeah, basically, you've reduced this to an Intellect check, which might work, so long as it's only 1d20+ Intellect vs 10+Utterance level+LoR, or something similar.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but "level" on the left side of the table is character level, and "~level" on the right side is Utterance level, yes?
You have them cancel each other out, but it doesn't really balance like that. The modifier varies on one side of the equation from 1 to 20, and on the other from 1 to 6. Even doubling it only pushes the max Utterance up to 12, or less for non-Evolving Mind stuff.
When comparing to character level, Utterance levels just don't get high enough for any kind of reasonable multiplier and we're back to square one.
(If you are confused let me know and I'll try to reword this another way)
or if I'm confused, can you explain it differently?


I was the one who originally suggested having infinite uses, but you where the one who brought up infinte healing as a counterpoint. If you include ECL vs. Utterance level in your calculation, then you've got a boatload of healing from lower level Utterances, but since its not really infinite you've still got to track all those uses so you know when to start rolling the die at some point.
Strip them out, and you can forget all that.


Having your simplest Utterances be almost as hard to speak at level 20 as they where at level 1 is not ideal, but honestly I think that fixing the other problems is a sufficient balance. This means the Truenamer should start running out of high-level Utterances around the same time as the rest of the party wants to take a break anyhow.


If you think the DC is too difficult, and want to keep Skill Checks involved, then let certain skills contribute a bonus to your Intellect/Truespeak check under certain circumstances. (something like Synergy or ranks or 1/2 total, etc)
Possible ideas- Knowledge (various) when used against certain creature types, such as Planes for Elemental, Nature for Fey, Religion for Outsiders, Local for Humanoids, Dungeoneering for Monstrous Humanoids, Giants, and Dragons
Craft (whatever) for weapons and armor for Lexicon of the Crafted Tool
Appraise for anything relating to magic items
Survival for anything from Lexicon of the Perfected Map
Heal for Word of Nurturing
Perform (Oratory) in non-combat situations, & maybe require full-round action
etc, etc, etc

At the very least, by spreading the requirements around you make it harder to push any one check through the stratosphere. Some tweaked Feats and Magic Items could also help.

Edit: It might be more complicated than you want for this thread, but the longer I think about this last bit, the more I like it. I admit that having only your Intellect as a boost against both Utterance level and LoR is kind of harsh, and I think this has the potential to balance the scale, somewhat.
What creature types haven't I covered? Undead and Constructs can probably both fit Knowledge (Arcana), and Humanoids can be Knowledge (local). Am I missing anything? Alternatively, where might problems crop up?

[eftexar]

I've played the Truenamer in controlled environment, ie my DM dropped it to 1 x CR and I didn't optimize Truespeech. Even with the ability to reliably use Utterances the Truenamer was still pretty weak.

If I may direct you here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=278316), part of my solution was to create a small failure chance if an utterance was used repeatedly during an encounter, allow for wizard style preparation, and let multiple utterances be cast at once.

[Evard]

About Warblade.

Yes he feels to good, but that is the same feeling you get from playing a wizard , sorcerer, dread necromancer, crusader, or beguiler (+ many other T3 and above classes).

When playing a caster part of the fun is having something to do every round that will make a difference. It could be casting a spell, concentrating on a spell, or casting from a scroll. Every class should get that chance, sure the player may make the wrong choice but atleast they get options outside of "I move, I attack" or "I move and shoot".

The swordsage (my least favorite ToB class partially for refresh mechanic) gets a ton of maneuvers and with one feat tax can ready a completely different set (adaptive style should be first level bonus feat) of maneuvers. Not just refresh the ones already readied but pick up better options. I never liked that it took so long for the "monk" "ninja" or "rogue" to do so through the feat (I like your change to move action).

Besides you can't use a maneuver in the same round as you refresh so it isn't like your warblade can spam "Emerald Razor" and the like every round.

But hey this is all my two cp, I'm just trying to stick up for one of my favorite classes.

Oh, if you want to make the Warblade the Fighter upgrade then you should give the fighter bonus feats (yes all of them) to the warblade. I doubt it would break a game and I could see some fantastic warblade builds like that :) (this may be TO MUCH).

[Draz74]

Personal preference, really. I had a warblade in a group I ran, and he always felt just a bit too good-- mostly because of the ability to recover fully with no cost. God knows I'm not a "no nice things for melee" person, but given that encounters are already rarely more than a few rounds... Would a move action be more palatable?

In practice, my personal experience has been that Warblades have enough nice uses for swift/immediate actions that the swift action refresh was actually quite painful. But yes, a move action would be better than a standard. Imagining a character as aggressive and combat-happy as the Warblade sitting back and avoiding attacking in order to refresh his options makes no sense to my mind.

[Grod_The_Giant]

After reading through Magic of Incarnum, and looking at some handbooks and the Tier list, I've written up some tweaks for the classes therein. Summarized even more briefly:
All classes get a bit more soulmeld-rebinding capability, in a similar spirit to the binder tweaks (to better adapt to changing situations).
Incarnate gets the medium BAB that he apparently didn't quite need, but makes his role clearer, and his build a little easier.
Soulborn gets better skills, better feats, better smiting, Cha-based DCs, and meldshaping roughly as a Totemist of his level-3 (though he keeps his own list)
Totemist gets stealth skills and a bigger HD.

[Eldan]

Can I ask: what's the point of the Archivist like that? The fun thing about the Archivist was, I think, that he also had class features on top of just casting. Like this, he's just not all that different from a cleric anymore, except weaker in a fight. Read the wizard first, Eldan.

Also, I'm pretty sure changing the Beguiler's Advanced learning is a good idea. What made the class so good is that it was focused. Like this, you can just pick up a few overpowered spells totally outside your specializiation, like Polymorph or Gate, thereby breaking an otherwise balanced class.

Also, booo, spontaneous wizard, booo. Gimme back my intelligent scholars. Could you have an option, an ACF maybe, that allows them to prepare from books? Not with more spells known, mind you. Just the option. Its whta makes them interesting.

[Deepbluediver]

After reading through Magic of Incarnum, and looking at some handbooks and the Tier list, I've written up some tweaks for the classes therein. Summarized even more briefly:
All classes get a bit more soulmeld-rebinding capability, in a similar spirit to the binder tweaks (to better adapt to changing situations).
Incarnate gets the medium BAB that he apparently didn't quite need, but makes his role clearer, and his build a little easier.
Soulborn gets better skills, better feats, better smiting, Cha-based DCs, and meldshaping roughly as a Totemist of his level-3 (though he keeps his own list)
Totemist gets stealth skills and a bigger HD.


I enjoyed the idea behind incarnum, but I was always a bit dissapointed with the implimentation of the classes. While these tweaks certainly make them more powerful, I'm still a little confused on what the intended purpose of each class was really supposed to be. Maybe you'll give me some feedback that would be helpful since you recently spent lots of time studying it.


Was the incarnate supposed to play like a caster? It seemed really schizophrenic with its low BAB and HD, but medium armor proficiency and abilities requiring melee attacks. The flavor still seems....uncertain (I'm not articulating this well, sorry). I kind of feel like the only real difference between him and the Soulborn is a reversal of melee and incarnum strengths. Maybe that's enough, it just feels kind of "meh" overall, to me.

The Soulborn looked like they where trying to go for a "half-incarnum" class, kind of like bards or paladins are partial-spellcasters. But since incarnum was nowhere near as strong as vancian casting in the first place, this made his "magic" pretty weak, and his combat-skills didn't really make up for it. Of all your tweaks, I think I like these the best.

The totemist was supposed to be the Wild/Elemental/Nature incarnum user apparently, but aside from having all his melds named after animals, he felt pretty much exactly like the other two. I hate to say it like this, but I felt that the class could have been improved with more Druid or Ranger-based abilities, or a modified incarnum mechanic. Something to make the Totem more than just an extra meld-slot.


Sorry for ranting a bit; all of your fixes seem like clear mechanical improvements, and I know that's the real focus of your thread. Incarnum is just one of those things I get excited about, so when you brought it up I felt the need to chime in.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Also, I'm pretty sure changing the Beguiler's Advanced learning is a good I assume you meant bad idea. What made the class so good is that it was focused. Like this, you can just pick up a few overpowered spells totally outside your specializiation, like Polymorph or Gate, thereby breaking an otherwise balanced class.
Advanced Learning was a general change I was making, and I didn't really see a reason to break the trend beyond "the class is already almost-T2." I don't want to bend over backwards because there are universally-broken spells like Gate.


Also, booo, spontaneous wizard, booo. Gimme back my intelligent scholars. Could you have an option, an ACF maybe, that allows them to prepare from books? Not with more spells known, mind you. Just the option. Its whta makes them interesting.
Sorry, my friend, that's a personal preference thing. Follow the link and check out the full fix if you'd like, but, well... I and most people I've played with hate the hassle of prepared casters. Since the only real nerf is turning them into spontaneous casters, I dunno what an ACF would entail.


I enjoyed the idea behind incarnum, but I was always a bit dissapointed with the implimentation of the classes. While these tweaks certainly make them more powerful, I'm still a little confused on what the intended purpose of each class was really supposed to be. Maybe you'll give me some feedback that would be helpful since you recently spent lots of time studying it.
Understandable. You really have to go through the list of soulmelds carefully to get a sense of what the classes can do.

Incarnate reminds me more of the Binder in terms of role than anything else-- that is to say, no set party role, but he can do most anything decently, and he can change day-to-day. Looking at a 10th level Incarnate, I can pick up allthe skill bonuses, languages, melee boosts, ranged boosts, trapfinding, flight, swim speed, animate dead, some immunities, concealment, spell resistance, bonus HP... Basically, a very flexible generalist/skillmonkey type.

Soulborn is supposed to be the Incarnum paladin. By RAW, he's far and away the suckiest-- the Tier List (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269440) puts him at 5 and the other two at 3. I haven't read his melds in detail, though.

Totemist is, as you say, the wild-themed guy (if focused on magical beasts, rather than animals), and is a massive beatstick. His melds tend to be a lot more offensive than the Incarnate's-- natural weapons out the wazoo (including one of the best ranged attacks I've seen), along with some save-or-suck abilities. (1-round petrification! 1d4 round stun!) Plus the usual Incarnum array of nifty secondary abilities-- tactical teleportation, water breathing, speak with animals, tracking, telepathy, tremorsense, detect evil and magic, concealment, flight, etherealness, and huge skill buffs all over the place. Basically a barbarian-type nature warrior.

Note that he can pick up a lot of the standard druid-y abilities-- tracking, wild empathy, animal skills, speak with animals, and so on-- through his melds.

[Eldan]

Spontaneous casting isn't a nerf per se. Given the same amount of spells known and spells per day, the spontaneous caster is better than the prepared caster.

Wizards aren't better htan sorcerers because they can prepare. They are better because they have earlier spell access (which makes little sense anyway: why would the one studying for years have his spells before the one with the natural talent from teenage years?) and no limit on spells known.

Also, sure, not bending over backwards for some spells is a fair point. I'm just not sure if its a good idea to dilute the class' focus. That said, if you leave the wizard and sorcerer in, there isn't much point in having one fixed list class, even if it also gets other things.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Spontaneous casting isn't a nerf per se. Given the same amount of spells known and spells per day, the spontaneous caster is better than the prepared caster.

Wizards aren't better htan sorcerers because they can prepare. They are better because they have earlier spell access (which makes little sense anyway: why would the one studying for years have his spells before the one with the natural talent from teenage years?) and no limit on spells known.
Fair. Prepared casting is typically better because it is typically associated with near- or wholly-unlimited spell access.

But here, I'll give you an ACF of the (full) wizard fix:

Classic Wizard
The classic wizard must prepare his forms ahead of time, as described under "preparing spells" in the PHB. He does not get any additional spells known, but, he does not require a spellbook for his forms. (He still needs one for his rituals).

Spell Tricks-- Spell Tricks work differently for classic wizards. A classic wizard must chose which, if any, tricks he wants to apply to his spells when preparing them. However, he may prepare any number of spells using a given trick-- the usual limit of [Int Mod] times/day does not apply.


Also, sure, not bending over backwards for some spells is a fair point. I'm just not sure if its a good idea to dilute the class' focus. That said, if you leave the wizard and sorcerer in, there isn't much point in having one fixed list class, even if it also gets other things.
I don't think adding 1 spell/level of your choice dilutes things too much. My guess is that people will mostly choose buffs and utility spells-- mage armor, overland flight, things like that.

EDIT: Tweaked the Soulborn's soulmeld list a bit.

[Fates]

I'm a bit conflicted on most of these changes....

On the monk- It seems to me that the ability to use wisdom in place of strength for just about everything, while not in any way overpowered, should not be granted at 1st level, insofar as most any wisdom-based character would take a 1-level dip in monk.

I would suggest limiting this ability so that it only applies while unarmoured and unarmed or wielding monk weapons. That, or granting it at a higher level.

[Grod_The_Giant]

On the monk- It seems to me that the ability to use wisdom in place of strength for just about everything, while not in any way overpowered, should not be granted at 1st level, insofar as most any wisdom-based character would take a 1-level dip in monk.
It's kind of necessary to do something along those lines to reduce MAD, and not putting it at first level renders characters useless until it comes online. But you make a valid point...

[Deepbluediver]

It's kind of necessary to do something along those lines to reduce MAD, and not putting it at first level renders characters useless until it comes online. But you make a valid point...

Cap it at your monk level? I know that's not great for the monk, but it stops the dipping problem and it should grow rapidly in the first few levels.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Cap it at your monk level? I know that's not great for the monk, but it stops the dipping problem and it should grow rapidly in the first few levels.
I restricted it to unarmed attacks, monk weapons and combat maneuvers. That should be OK.