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inuyasha
2013-03-11, 10:01 PM
for all of you who like long, random charts, dont like color coded dragons, or for any other reason, come and look at my charts.
It should be noted I borrowed a 1e chart from another website (which i cant find again) as the base, then i converted it to 3.X and expanded uppon it
warning: if you dont like random stuff dont check out this thread
Size
{table] Roll| Size
1.|fine
2.|diminutive
3.|tiny
4.|small
5.|medium
6.|large
7.|huge
8.|gargantuan
9.|colossal
10.|reroll
[/table]


Hit Dice Small<
{table]Roll| Hit dice
1.|5
2.|6
3.|7
4.|8
[/table]
Medium-huge
{table]Roll| Hit dice
1.|9
2.|10
3.|11
4.|12
5.|13
6.|14
[/table]
Gargantuan-colossal
{table]Roll| Hit dice
1.|15
2.|16
3.|17
4.|18
5.|19
6.|20
7.|21
8.|22
9.|23
10.|24[/table]

General appearence
{table] Roll| General appearence
1.|Serpentine, no legs
2.|Serpentine, front legs only
3.|Bipedal, Tyrannosaur-like
4.|Four legged.
5.|Multi-legged, Centipede (six or more legs low to ground)
6.|Bipedal, Spinosaurus!
7.|Multi-legged, Centaur (six or more legs, one half low to ground other half higher up)
8.|Bipedal, humanoid
[/table]

Natural armor Small<
{table]Roll| Natural armor
1.|5
2.|6
3.|7
4.|8
[/table]
Medium-huge
{table]Roll| Natural armor
1.|9
2.|10
3.|11
4.|12
5.|13
6.|14
[/table]
Gargantuan-colossal
{table]Roll| Natural armor
1.|15
2.|16
3.|17
4.|18
5.|19
6.|20
7.|21
8.|22
9.|23
10.|24
[/table]
Special defense
{table]Roll|special defense
1.|DR 10/magic
2.|Anti-magic field, 10ft. radius
3.|Chameleon, no size penalty to hide checks
4.|Miasmal fog, Anyone closing to melee range must save or contract random disease.
5.|Regenerates at a rate of HD+4 beatable by 2 energy types.
6.|can blink at will, and can evoke or end the effect as a free action
7.|SR 10+HD
8.|energy blood, when hit by a piercing or slashing weapon, blood pours out dealind 1d6 energy damage +1d6 per 3 hit dice (energy is picked by DM)
9.| Fast healing at a rate of half HD+2
10.| DR(1/4 HD)/--
11.| Immune to something else, sleep, paralysis, poison, disease, etc
12.| Regeneration at 1/3 HD
13.| Decaying: gain all undead immunities but not the type
14.| Clockwork parts: gain all construct immunities but not the type
15.| DR (1/2 HD)/silver
16.| Lost limbs (including head) regrow in one round
17.| A wish or miracle spell is required to keep the dragon from reviving in 1d4 months
18.| This dragon gains one additional hit point per hit die
19.| Surrounded by a field of wind: all ranged attacks are at -4 to hit the dragon
20.| ROLL TWICE!!!
[/table]
Alignment
{table]Roll|Alignment
1.|LG
2.|LN
3.|LE
4.|NG
5.|TN
6.|NE
7.|CG
8.|CN
9.|CE
10.|reroll
[/table]
Stats
{table]Stats
assume the dragon is medium, roll 4d6 per stat, then increase or decrease size
[/table]
Number of attacks (pick what attacks the dragon has) (Ex. 1 claw, 2 bites, 4 tentacles etc.)
{table]Roll|number of attacks
1.|1 attack
2.|2 attacks
3.|3 attacks
4.|4 attacks
5.|5 attacks
6.|6 attacks
[/table]
Damage per attack (also adjust for size)
{table]Roll| Damage per attack
1.|1D4
2.|1D6
3.|1D8
4.|1D10
5.|1D12
6.|2D6
[/table]
Special attacks
{table]Roll| special attacks
1.|One natural attack is one die size larger
2.|With a snap of its tail, a dragon can loose a volley of six spikes as a standard action (make an attack roll for each spike). This attack has a range of 180 feet with no range increment. All targets must be within 30 feet of each other. The creature can launch only (HD*4) spikes in any 24-hour period. If the dragon has regeneration, two spikes regenerate every half hour
3.|The dragon can, on a successful melee touch attack, deal a number of points of damage to one ability score equal to half the damage of its weakest natural weapon (1d6 becomes 1d3, 1d8 becomes 1d4, 1d12 becomes 1d6 etc), roll 1d6 to determine the ability score. A successful constitution based fortitude save can negate the effect. This ability can be used every 1d6 rounds
4.|Hypnotic gaze. Those who meet the dragons eyes must make a charisma based will save or be "Charmed" as per spell.
5.|Cause Madness. Target must make a charisma based will save or be stricken with the insanity spell
6.|Prehensile tail. Dragon can grasp and hold objects, or constrict for 1-6 damage (if medium size) per round with a successful grapple check.
7.|When this dragon slays a humanoid opponent, it can feed on the corpse, devouring both flesh and life force, as a full-round action. Feeding destroys the victimís body and prevents any form of raising or resurrection that requires part of the corpse. There is a 50% chance that a wish, miracle, or true resurrection spell can restore a devoured victim to life.A dragon advances in Hit Dice by consuming corpses in this fashion. For every three suitable corpses a dragon devours, it gains 1 Hit Die, and its Strength, Constitution, and natural armor increase by +1. Its attack bonus and saves improve as normal for an outsider of its Hit Dice, and it gains skill points, feats, and ability score improvements normally.The Dragon only advances by consuming the corpses of creatures whose Hit Dice or levels are equal to or greater than its own current total.
8.| Energy claws. One natural attack does 1d8 extra energy damage on a successful hit
9.| Force claws. One natural attack bypasses all damage reduction and hardness because it is in a sheathe of force
10.|Extra spell like abilities. The dragon gains a number of points to spend equal to double its hit dice, these points are used to buy new special abilities for the dragon. Expending a number of points equal to the spells level makes the spell able to be cast 1/day as a spell like abiltiy, double the spells level is 3/day, triple the spells level is at will, and four times the spell like ability is constant. Example: the dragon has 6 hit dice, it can get 2 third level spells once a day, two first level spells at will, one sixth level spell once a day, or one second level spell at will by spending points.
11.| One natural attack spreads a random disease on a failed fortitude save (constitution based)
12.|reroll twice on this table
[/table]
Breath weapon Damage Type Damage=(HD+2)D8
{table]Roll|breath weapon
1.|Fire
2.|Cold
3.|Acid
4.|Sonic
5.|Lightning
6.|Unique (roll on unique breath weapon table)
[/table]

Breath weapon Shape
{table]Roll|breath weapon
1.|Line
2.|Cone
[/table]

Unique breath weapon
{table]Roll|unique breath weapon
1.|Spittle ball causes random polymorph to those hit.
2.|Poison gas fortitude save [con based] or take 1d6 abiliy damage, primary and secondary
3.|Breath becomes "Web" as per the spell.
4.|Glob of protoplasm which transforms targets the area (halve range of either a normal cone or line) into random monster under the dragon's control. the form must be chosen from the highest level "summon monster" or "summon natures ally" a druid or wizard of the dragons HD could cast,
5.|Breath disintegrates metal. Only magic items may attempt to save (the DC is con based).
6.|Hurricane force wind as per the DMG
7.|Cloud of detatchable teeth as the blade barrier spell, teeth regenerate 1d3 rounds later, during this time it deals 1/4 damage with any bite attack it possesses as it gums the target with an empty mouth
8.|Enervation as the spell
9.|inside out gas cloud, fortitude save [con based] or die, if save is made take 2d6 damage per hit die as the targets turn inside out and their innards become outtards
10.|creeping doom as the spell
11.|re-roll twice on the regular breath weapon chart and split damage between those types
12.|Pick a spell from any spell list of the highest level that a caster with the HD of the dragon could cast, it must be any spell applicable for the [I]living spell template. This is it's breath weapon and it affects all within a cone or line as normal.
[/table]
Bonus feats
{table]Roll|number of bonus feats
1-50| none
51-75| one
76-95| two
96-100|three
[/table]
Advancement
up to double HD-same size, up to triple HD-+1 size

Empedocles
2013-03-11, 10:15 PM
I like the idea here (never did enjoy how dragons were handled in 3.5) but I see a pretty glaring issue. Say I roll an 18 HD dragon. I then roll a 1...so I have an 18 HD size fine dragon. That doesn't work at all. Basically, each HD needs its own separate set of tables, or you could end up with dragons that have basically no HD and disproportionately powerful magic, or extremely high HD and no real power to back up all that health.

inuyasha
2013-03-11, 10:17 PM
hmm ok :) let me think about that

inuyasha
2013-03-11, 10:23 PM
OK fixed...how does that look? a little better?

also, anything to add to the charts? new breath weapons, special attacks etc?

Empedocles
2013-03-11, 10:42 PM
OK fixed...how does that look? a little better?

also, anything to add to the charts? new breath weapons, special attacks etc?

Much better! But you need to expand the changes you made for everything really (which might sound sort of daunting...). You can still have size fine dragons with 6 2d6 attacks or a colossal dragon with 1 1d4 attack. You see what I'm saying?

You don't specify breath weapon damage - I'd suggest just double normal attack damage, since this table tries to simplify things.

On the other hand I'd really like to see a few more special attacks. A swallow whole ability would be really good for the larger dragons. Maybe even give them a barghest-like ability to absorb the people they eat? That'd make an interesting dragon. And maybe an option for a dragon to have two special abilities (e.g. if you roll a 10, roll twice more. The dragon gains both the abilities you roll).

The most basic flaw here is also that you have no way of determining physical and mental attributes (str, dex, con, int, wis, cha...). My suggestion is just to have the physical attributes be based on size (e.g. all colossal dragons have strength 30, dexterity 10, and constitution 28) and then have a separate table where you can roll for how smart of a dragon he is (you could keep that simple by having his intelligence, charisma, and wisdom all be based on one another).

I'm sure I can come up with some more ideas if you want.

inuyasha
2013-03-11, 10:45 PM
Much better! But you need to expand the changes you made for everything really (which might sound sort of daunting...). You can still have size fine dragons with 6 2d6 attacks or a colossal dragon with 1 1d4 attack. You see what I'm saying?

You don't specify breath weapon damage - I'd suggest just double normal attack damage, since this table tries to simplify things.

On the other hand I'd really like to see a few more special attacks. A swallow whole ability would be really good for the larger dragons. Maybe even give them a barghest-like ability to absorb the people they eat? That'd make an interesting dragon. And maybe an option for a dragon to have two special abilities (e.g. if you roll a 10, roll twice more. The dragon gains both the abilities you roll).

The most basic flaw here is also that you have no way of determining physical and mental attributes (str, dex, con, int, wis, cha...). My suggestion is just to have the physical attributes be based on size (e.g. all colossal dragons have strength 30, dexterity 10, and constitution 28) and then have a separate table where you can roll for how smart of a dragon he is (you could keep that simple by having his intelligence, charisma, and wisdom all be based on one another).

I'm sure I can come up with some more ideas if you want.

hmmm ok let me think of stuff to change...

also i do specify breath weapon damage...acid...fire...lightning...sonic...and cold

and is my ability score generator that bad? (i used the word stats sorry :p)

Razanir
2013-03-11, 10:46 PM
Restrict the natural armor table. +24 seems unusually high for a Fine creature

Empedocles
2013-03-11, 10:46 PM
hmmm ok let me think of stuff to change...

also i do specify breath weapon damage...acid...fire...lightning...sonic...and cold

I meant how much damage the breath weapon does.

inuyasha
2013-03-11, 10:47 PM
oh oops i meant to fix that along with HD

thanks for all the help guys :smile:

oh and ok :)

inuyasha
2013-03-11, 10:56 PM
OK so ive added some things, fixed some things, and I added advancement at the bottom

Empedocles
2013-03-11, 11:02 PM
I feel like dragons should have superior stats to the average character. How about at least 5d6, take the best 3?

Natural armor looks all good to me!

The biggest things now would just be to expand your special attacks and defenses. I like the way you sort of ran through the Monster Manual and took out certain abilities. Stick with that, maybe look at some other sources too, and make the lists as big as you can.

Maybe a way to determine treasure horde total worth would be cool? The whole treasure trove idea is pretty central to dragons.

inuyasha
2013-03-11, 11:06 PM
I feel like dragons should have superior stats to the average character. How about at least 5d6, take the best 3?

Natural armor looks all good to me!

The biggest things now would just be to expand your special attacks and defenses. I like the way you sort of ran through the Monster Manual and took out certain abilities. Stick with that, maybe look at some other sources too, and make the lists as big as you can.

Maybe a way to determine treasure horde total worth would be cool? The whole treasure trove idea is pretty central to dragons.

well for treasure i would just say triple or quadruple standard. Even though the MM1 has less, their freakin' dragons

as for the special attacks: sure i can do that, that will take a little while

and as for the stats: i did 4d6 total dont drop it, thats pretty good but should i increase it?

and finally, once i finish this, who would like to see one for demons? (that will be a LOT more work)

Empedocles
2013-03-11, 11:13 PM
well for treasure i would just say triple or quadruple standard. Even though the MM1 has less, their freakin' dragons

as for the special attacks: sure i can do that, that will take a little while

and as for the stats: i did 4d6 total dont drop it, thats pretty good but should i increase it?

and finally, once i finish this, who would like to see one for demons? (that will be a LOT more work)

I like how 3.5 handled demons more then how they handled dragons, but go for it.

I didnt realize it was 4d6, not 4d6 drop the lowest. 4d6 sounds good.

inuyasha
2013-03-11, 11:24 PM
well g'night all im going to think about this in my sleep :smalltongue:

Deepbluediver
2013-03-12, 02:47 PM
I love rolling dice!


Bipedal-no forarms and Bipedal-T-rex seem very similar.

Why don't you replace it with Bipedal- Spinosaurus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinosaurus
(that thing from the third JP movie that kicked T-rex's arse)

That way it can actually benefit from all 4 limbs.


And you've got an extra [/table] after Natural Armor- Gargantuan


Under Special Defense- some of the larger dragons will have their head and tail (or more) sticking out of a circle with a mere 10-ft. radius. I can understand what you where going for, but how about phrasing it as "an anti-magic effect within 10 ft. of the dragon".

Absolutely LOVE the breath-weapons sections. Gonna roll up a few of these and see what I get.

Empedocles
2013-03-12, 03:57 PM
Just to help give you an idea of what this dragon might look like, I went ahead and rolled up one using your table. The numbers I got were 9, 8, 5, 10, 6, 8, 3, 6, 6, 4, and 1.

This translates to: Colossal, 24 HD, centipede like body, +24 natural armor, the ability to blink at will, CN alignment, 3 attacks at 2d12 each, a prehensile tail, and a sonic breath weapon and a polymorph spittle attack.

This leaves just two real issues: you say to adjust damage by size, but you don't specify how. Do you mean increasing damage categories (like normal weapons)? Secondly, the breath weapon only does 48 points of sonic damage. That's not a lot for a 24 HD colossal creature.

I'd still encourage you to expand the special attacks and defense tables.

inuyasha
2013-03-13, 06:44 PM
hmm that gives me some thoughts
1. how could I fix breath weapon? any suggestions?
2. for natural weapons, assume that the rolls on the chart are for a medium dragon then adjust for size
3. ok i will expand the tables
4. deepbluediver glad you like it and I will definantly fix those things

Empedocles
2013-03-13, 06:54 PM
hmm that gives me some thoughts
1. how could I fix breath weapon? any suggestions?
2. for natural weapons, assume that the rolls on the chart are for a medium dragon then adjust for size
3. ok i will expand the tables
4. deepbluediver glad you like it and I will definantly fix those things

1. Maybe a number of d6 equal to HD, with a reflex save of 10+HD for half damage? That could end up being a little high though.
2. What do you mean, adjust for size?
3. Cool cool!

inuyasha
2013-03-13, 07:04 PM
1. Maybe a number of d6 equal to HD, with a reflex save of 10+HD for half damage? That could end up being a little high though.
2. What do you mean, adjust for size?
3. Cool cool!

1. well if it ends up a little high, that means the dragon has high HD, and if the dragon has high HD its probably going up against a powerful group of players. Important note, these charts do not supercede DM logic and is subject to rule 0
2. meaning change the existing damage to the value on the dragon chart in the beginning of MM2
3. cool COOL cool!

Empedocles
2013-03-13, 07:25 PM
1. well if it ends up a little high, that means the dragon has high HD, and if the dragon has high HD its probably going up against a powerful group of players. Important note, these charts do not supercede DM logic and is subject to rule 0
2. meaning change the existing damage to the value on the dragon chart in the beginning of MM2
3. cool COOL cool!

1. Yeah, I meant that for the lower level groups, low HD dragons might be dealing a relatively high amount of damage. But it's a breath weapon.
2. I think you should just increase by size category, so a small dragon that rolls 2d6 has it reduced to 1d12, or a large dragon who rolls 1d10 damage would have it upped to 1d12 because he's size large.

inuyasha
2013-03-13, 07:39 PM
hmm ok :smallbiggrin:

inuyasha
2013-04-29, 05:32 PM
I would like to ressurect this project, I have added in and fixed and expanded upon many things in this, and I would like to see other peoples thoughts

Sgt. Cookie
2013-04-30, 03:07 AM
The "ordinary" breath weapon thing seems, off.

I think it should be two tables, one dictating the Damage, the other the type (Line or Cone), meaning it would look closer to this:

Breath weapon Damage Type Damage=(HD+2)D8
{table]Roll|breath weapon
1.|Fire
2.|Cold
3.|Acid
4.|Sonic
5.|Lightning
6.|Unique (roll on unique breath weapon table)
[/table]

Breath weapon Shape
{table]Roll|breath weapon
1.|Line
2.|Cone
[/table]


It just means that, you have an equal chance of getting a Lightning Cone or a Sonic Line. Adds to the randomness.

inuyasha
2013-04-30, 08:05 AM
I was thinking about it, but chose not to do it, but now im glad someone else has the idea :D I will add that to the OP