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View Full Version : Which Version of the Star Wars Roleplaying game to get?



russdm
2013-03-13, 06:45 PM
This might not be in the right spot.

So I have some of the new Edge of the Empire game stuff, like the beta and beginner game, but i was wondering what is the best version of the roleplaying game to get? The West End games one? THe revised core? Saga? I really want to play some star wars tabletop stuff.

I have been playing Knights of the old republic 1 and 2 and The old republic mmo, so i am curious. I have played The Saga Edition before. Besides, i am getting really tired of playing D&D 3.5 since it sucks with my party/playing group because we have three power-gamers/munchkins. any advice? I don't want to buy/invest in a system that is not likely to get played.

Kiero
2013-03-13, 07:04 PM
I'd say Saga Edition.

TheThan
2013-03-13, 07:07 PM
Well if you want to get away from D20, then you have basically three choices, 1: the new edge of the empire RPG from fantasy flight games, and the old E6 game by west end games, the third is to homebrew it/ adapt a generic system like Gurps.
As to which is better, I canít say, any given game has itís own strengths and weaknesses. Since I havenít played in the west end games one or the fantasy flight version, I canít comment on them.

Coidzor
2013-03-13, 07:17 PM
SAGA is basically a better 3.5, so it depends on why D&D 3.5 is bad for your group.

Probably would want something new for variety's sake though.

General consensus seems to be that Saga beats the prior d20 version(s).

OverdrivePrime
2013-03-14, 12:18 AM
West End Games: Still the Best.

I really wish I could find someone who still runs a WEG Star Wars game. Been missing it since my GM moved to Korea.

russdm
2013-03-14, 12:35 AM
What makes Saga better than revised core or the weg version? What makes weg the best? Which one is best to go with?

Waspinator
2013-03-14, 12:51 AM
Saga has some definite nice traits. A big one is how the classes work. Basically, each class has talent trees and you get to pick a talent every odd level. It's pretty flexible compared to how D&D 3.5 works.

Ninjadeadbeard
2013-03-14, 01:17 AM
I don't feel like I mention this enough, but Mutants and Masterminds is technically the best Star Wars game I've ever used. Gonna run a SW adventure with it soon, actually. It's so fluffable that so long as the GM is judicious any character from SW is viable.

Only downside (for you, maybe) is that it's a D20 system, though altered some.

Waspinator
2013-03-14, 02:22 AM
Well, Mutants and Masterminds can make basically anything if you allow enough points.

Kiero
2013-03-14, 03:19 AM
What makes Saga better than revised core or the weg version? What makes weg the best? Which one is best to go with?

Saga Edition was actually designed with Star Wars in mind, rather than being D&D badly kludged for sci-fi. It has rules for the Force that are coherent and functional, without nerfing Force Users. It has the best multiclassing rules I've seen so far in any D20-derived game. And it uses a streamlined, more rationalised Skills list (though you still need to merge Climb, Jump and Swim into one Athletics - which no one will take anyway...).

I played WEG back in the day, and can't stand the D6 system. It was clunky and shows its age nowadays, not to mention how ridiculously underpowered Force Users were. And how ridiculously overpowered the signature characters are.

fusilier
2013-03-14, 04:48 AM
West End Games: Still the Best.

I really wish I could find someone who still runs a WEG Star Wars game. Been missing it since my GM moved to Korea.

I would vote for this one too. It was the first rpg system I played. Easy to learn, nice cinematic feel, and pretty simple. The latter is probably the biggest strike against it: compared to more modern systems it might seem too simplistic. But it's worth a try if you can put your hands on it. It was such a slick system. Keep in mind it was designed when the original trilogy was basically the only thing around (along with some non-canon novels).

hamishspence
2013-03-14, 05:25 AM
The whole concept of "canon" vs "noncanon" with respect to Star Wars, hadn't really been codified back then.

Waspinator
2013-03-14, 05:45 AM
Well, back then they hadn't started the torrent of Star Wars fiction that made defining canon important.

hamishspence
2013-03-14, 06:02 AM
Yup- there were the Marvel comics, the Lando novels, the Han novels, and Splinter of the Mind's Eye.

Jack of Spades
2013-03-14, 07:14 AM
I have been playing Knights of the old republic 1 and 2 and The old republic mmo, so i am curious. I have played The Saga Edition before. Besides, i am getting really tired of playing D&D 3.5 since it sucks with my party/playing group because we have three power-gamers/munchkins. any advice? I don't want to buy/invest in a system that is not likely to get played.

I'd say try West End Games edition, or to stick it out and wait for the FFG book to come out (if it hasn't yet). If DnD doesn't work with your group for mechanical reasons, you can bet that neither of the d20 systems are going to be any better.

Disclosure: I've never played the WEG version. My favorite SW system at the moment is the FFG one, followed by Saga.

russdm
2013-03-14, 04:19 PM
Well, i am planning on getting th FFG gamebook, but i thought i could try out the stuff for it. I also picked up saga stuff because saga is fun and i wasn't impressed by what i read about weg. From my understanding, there was no class balance and character power was all over the place. Also, with enough strength wookies could shrug off blaster bolts like nothing. Which is not true to star wars at all.

fusilier
2013-03-15, 12:26 AM
Well, i am planning on getting th FFG gamebook, but i thought i could try out the stuff for it. I also picked up saga stuff because saga is fun and i wasn't impressed by what i read about weg. From my understanding, there was no class balance and character power was all over the place. Also, with enough strength wookies could shrug off blaster bolts like nothing. Which is not true to star wars at all.

Uh, WEG Star Wars doesn't have classes, so no "class balance" is really not an issue. It's been a long time since I played it, but I do recall that some of the races could get a bit out of whack. Never really noticed it, but that may have been due to the group and GM -- who wasn't afraid to modify things as he saw fit (doubling the damage of thermal-detonators for example). In fairness, it is pretty easy to modify.

kardar233
2013-03-15, 12:26 AM
I'm a fan of the Star Wars Revised rules, but only because they're the only Star Wars rules I've seen that don't make Jedi halfway invulnerable. But I play my Star Wars games closer to Shadowrun that way, so I'm probably not the best person to ask.

russdm
2013-03-15, 05:49 PM
The purchased copy of Saga Edition i got says that it is the Revised Core rulebook. Does that mean it has the errata in it that the first version needed? Will i need to print out the errata?

Asmodai
2013-03-15, 10:13 PM
I kinda like Edge of the Empire. As I've seen the Beta, I think it might have potentional. Saga doesn't really rub me right.

kardar233
2013-03-16, 01:45 AM
The purchased copy of Saga Edition i got says that it is the Revised Core rulebook. Does that mean it has the errata in it that the first version needed? Will i need to print out the errata?

Are you sure it's Saga? Revised Core Rulebook is the d20 version, usually.

If the classes are Fringer, Noble, Scoundrel, Scout, Soldier, Tech Specialist, Force Adept, Jedi Consular and Jedi Guardian, then that's the d20 Star Wars, not Saga.

Waspinator
2013-03-16, 03:32 AM
Does your book have a bunch of characters on it or just a big black-and-gold Vader? Saga just has Vader.

russdm
2013-03-16, 11:32 PM
It had Vader grasping for you on the cover and it said "Saga Edition" with "Revised Core Rulebook" underneath it. It also said Saga Edition on the spin. The classes are Jedi, Noble, Scoundrel, Scout, Soldier. With talent trees for each.

RandomLunatic
2013-03-16, 11:40 PM
Strange. My copy has "Saga Edition Core Rulebook" on the cover.

Now, the first page does say "Saga Edition" with "Revised Core Rulebook" underneath. I assume that is because mine is from the second printing or so. So I think you should be fine.

Velaryon
2013-03-17, 04:49 PM
The real acid test is that Saga Edition books are all square, while the previous d20 Star Wars books were proportioned more like your average RPG books. Either way, it sounds like you do have a revision of the Saga Edition book, so you should be fine.

ScubaGoomba
2013-03-17, 05:23 PM
I can only weigh in on the d20 rules, but it depends on the general feel you and your group want from a Star Wars game.

Saga gives a much bigger, almost superheroic feel. It came out after the Clone Wars miniseries and the power afforded to PCs reflects this. I would advise that you stick to Core if you play Saga if only because the Jedi get some ludicrous powers in the splatbooks that, in my opinion, are very un-Jedi (walking through walls, for one!). That said, the system is built around a more cinematic feel and you can tell that it kind of straddles that line between 3.5 and 4. The Class system is great, as they all have a variety of Talent Trees that let a party filled with Jedi or Scoundrels, for example, still be varied. In this sense, it's similar to Pathfinder (if you're familiar with it!). Skill progression is static now, much like 4E, where you get a bonus based on your level, which stacks with training.

The Revised Core Rulebook gives a grittier (God, I hate that word...) feel. The PCs are less powerful to start and death is more common, as health is based on a Vitality Points/Wound Points pool, with Criticals doing double damage AND going straight to Wounds. Force Powers draw from the player's VP, which means Jedi will have to be a bit more cautious when slinging spells. Personally, I like this, as Jedi in the films didn't really throw their power around all the time and, for the most part, tended more towards diplomatic solutions before resulting to the Force or their lightsabers. The Skill system in RCR is similar to the D&D Skill system, so it's all ranks in for points.

The big way to really describe the difference in feel is that Saga tends more toward high fantasy, with RCR leaning toward low fantasy. Both are good for what they do, just know what you're getting yourself into.

hamishspence
2013-03-17, 05:29 PM
I would advise that you stick to Core if you play Saga if only because the Jedi get some ludicrous powers in the splatbooks that, in my opinion, are very un-Jedi (walking through walls, for one!).

That was based on a scene from the comics (Emissaries to Malastare).

ScubaGoomba
2013-03-17, 05:35 PM
That was based on a scene from the comics (Emissaries to Malastare).

Oh, I don't doubt that it happened in some bit of Expanded Universe, but the Jedi as presented in the films haven't ever demonstrated that kind of power. The Force, as shown in the movies, augments a person in body and mind, but the most "superheroic" it gets is some low-level telekinesis (really just pushing and lifting things). It seems kind of silly, to me, that a Jedi can learn to just use the Force to pass through walls. If that was the case, why would one as powerful as Yoda have needed to open the doors to enter Palpatine's chambers? Or why would Qui Gon have needed to cut his way through the blast doors with his lightsaber?

This, of course, is personal taste, and I was just throwing out one exception. The Unleashed Force Powers are also quite ridiculous and I'm sure I could find more normal Force Powers that don't capture what Star Wars "is."

hamishspence
2013-03-17, 05:45 PM
True. Still, not everyone knows everything- not even the most powerful.

Saga does rather limit characters like Yoda or Palpatine- they have a very short list of powers.

jedipilot24
2013-03-17, 09:23 PM
Saga is much better at simulating the cinematic aspects of combat than the RCR rules. In RCR, there wasn't much incentive for melee fights to be anything more than two guys standing in one spot pounding on each other; but with the Saga rules, it's much easier to have the kind of moving lightsaber duels that you see in the movies.
The HP system and the Condition Track in Saga is also a significant improvement over the Vitality/Wounds system in RCR.

Alejandro
2013-03-18, 08:59 AM
I have experience with D6, Saga, and Edge of the Empire. I played the beta (it's not a finished game) of Edge of the Empire at last Gencon, with the designer of the game running it. It was OK, but still clearly not all finished.

D6 can be great fun, but as my years of running it went on, I started to find the big issues with it (namely how you can break it with Strength, cybernetics, and Jedi, to the point where some Jedi are just impossible to touch and some Wookiees have absolutely no fear of even a blaster rifle in their face, as they will ignore the damage.)

Saga is what we use now, and other than a few house rules (Skill Focus Use the Force is one) everyone enjoys it very much. I recommend Saga.

Hendel
2013-03-18, 09:19 AM
I have played West End, d20, d20 revised, Saga, and a GURPS format that the GM used in the Star Wars universe.

I actually prefered the d20 revised the best. Saga is too much like D&D 4th edition to me and it took longer for me to get my arms around it.

The GURPS was the best to handle the munchkins out there because everyone seemed really balanced. It also prevented the randomness of rolling the critical hit and killing a character with even an average Con score. the 3d6 always gives a better curve on averages and criticals than a d20 does.

I like 3rd edition (3.5 and Pathfinder, etc.) so I may be biased, but the d20 revised was my favorite set of rules to work from as a player. If I really wanted balance, however, I would look for a GURPS rules based Star War game.

Felhammer
2013-03-18, 11:57 AM
Though Saga has it's issues, it's still a solid system If you like Star Wars and rolling d20's, then it's the system for you.

You mentioned Power Gamers... Well Saga, like any system, has its issues. There isn't anything as world shattering-ly powerful as there is D&D but there are talent and feat combos that are obnoxiously powerful. Force Powers are easily abused (especially at early levels) and Jedi (if built correctly) can be ridiculous if you don't know how to structure encounters and encounter environments.

Mando Knight
2013-03-18, 12:50 PM
There isn't anything as world shattering-ly powerful as there is D&D
Sure there is. Starships of the Galaxy, page 139. :smalltongue:

Waspinator
2013-03-18, 06:23 PM
Yeah, with Saga you might need to tweak the list of available Force powers to match the feel you want. They have some pretty crazy stuff available in some of the books.

russdm
2013-03-18, 07:06 PM
Well, I am mainly intending to start out running a Rebellion era game, where they can be working for the rebels or the imperials. I was going to not allow skill focus UTF for a few levels and require teh players to find stuff to be able to learn jedi stuff. Stuff like Holocrons, Datapads, spirits like Obiwan.

I am waiting on the other 3 books i bought before i start anything up.

Waspinator
2013-03-18, 08:45 PM
In Rebellion Era, being an obvious Jedi should probably be a death sentence. Unless you can beat Vader, of course, since he's probably going to want to meet you.

Mark Hall
2013-03-18, 10:23 PM
I am not familiar with Edge of the Empire version, but...

I like the WEG version. And despite the fact that I really HATE 3.x/PF (to the point where I refuse to play), I like Saga.

IMO, WEG allows for greater customization of characters, and, since it predates the prequels, Force abilities are under better control (i.e. more like the lower-key force abilities of the OT). You can make pretty much any character on the screen with WEG, though you might have to make a "X when he was starting out" version. Downsides? There's a lot of rolling, a lot of adding (which, with some groups, would get painfully slow), and advancement is slow and a little wonky, mathematically.

Saga is good. I like the character classes available, and think they're relatively well-balanced at low-levels (we're only just now 7th level). Despite having 3.x-style multiclassing, I think it was handled well, and the talent tree options works well to make interesting characters. The interplay of talents, feats, and skills makes for some interesting characters, but I think they might have been well-served by going completely classless... give everyone X+Int Modifier skills, Y+Con Modifier HP at first level, and a block of feats. Downsides? The Force. Tying it to a skill gave it a lot of advantages*, and you can use talents to become a skill monkey with just a single skill, while building your force power repertoire with feats

*Defenses are 10+level+stat+mods. Skills are d20+Stat+5+1/2level+mods. Until 10th level, assuming mods are equal, Skills are going to be ahead. It gets even worse when you include Skill Focus for another +5 to skills.