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Crunk-gore
2006-11-14, 11:37 PM
I'd appreciate any comments, fixes, or criticism you have to offer. Thanks in advance.

Myrmidon

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d8
Class Skills
The myrmidon’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (weapon drill) (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier

Table: The Myrmidon
{table]LV|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1st|+1|+0|+2|+0|Keen Strike +1; Weapon Focus
2nd|+2|+0|+3|+0|Increase Crit Multiplier; Keen Focus
3rd|+3|+1|+3|+1|Keen Insight (+2)
4th|+4|+1|+4|+1|Ignore Fortification 10%
5th|+5|+1|+4|+1|Keen Strike +2
6th|+6/+1|+2|+5|+2|--
7th|+7/+2|+2|+5|+2|--
8th|+8/+3|+2|+6|+2|Ignore Fortification 20%
9th|+9/+4|+3|+6|+3|Keen Strike +3
10th|+10/+5|+3|+7|+3|Wounding Strike
11th|+11/+6/+1|+3|+7|+3|--
12th|+12/+7/+2|+4|+8|+4|Ignore Fortification 30%; Increase Crit Multiplier
13th|+13/+8/+3|+4|+8|+4|Keen Strike +4; Keen Insight (standard action)
14th|+14/+9/+4|+4|+9|+4|--
15th|+15/+10/+5|+5|+9|+5|--
16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+5|+10|+5|Ignore Fortification 40%
17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+5|+10|+5|Keen Strike +5; Vorpal Strike
18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+6|+11|+6|Keen Insight (+3)
19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+6|+11|+6|--
20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+6|+12|+6|Ignore Fortification 50%[/table]

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the myrmidon.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A myrmidon is proficient with all simple and martial weapons that are either light or one-handed, and with light armor and bucklers.
Keen Strike (Ex): A myrmidon’s fighting prowess and accuracy allows him to strike at the weak points of both objects and creatures with more ease than other fighters. A myrmidon must declare which attacks he designates to be keen strikes before attacking.
At 1st level a myrmidon can attack with a weapon as though it were keened (the threat range of his weapon is doubled), for a number of times per day equal to his Dexterity bonus +1, for one attack. A myrmidon can only use this ability with his favored weapon.
At 5th level, the number of times a myrmidon can use Keen Strike per day becomes equal to his Dexterity bonus +2.
At 9th level, the number of times a myrmidon can use Keen Strike per day becomes equal to his Dexterity bonus +3.
At 13th level, the number of times a myrmidon can use Keen Strike per day becomes equal to his Dexterity bonus +4.
At 17th level, the number of times a myrmidon can use Keen Strike per day becomes equal to his Dexterity bonus +5.
Favored Weapon: At 1st level, The Myrmidon chooses one weapon he's proficient with. He gains the Weapon Focus feat for that weapon. A myrmidon may chose to change his favored weapon, but doing so takes 1 day of dedicated practice with the new weapon.
Increase Crit Multiplier (Ex): The critical multiplier on a myrmidon’s weapon is increased by 1 (i.e. x2 becomes x3, x3 becomes x4, etc.). This can only be applied to a single weapon of the myrmidon’s choice, which must also be the type of weapon that he has the Weapon Focus feat for. A myrmidon can stack the effects of the Increase Crit Multiplier ability he gains at 2nd level with the one he gains at 12th level on the same weapon, or he can split them between two weapons, if he so desires.
A myrmidon can change the target of this ability to a different weapon (which must also be a weapon that he has Weapon Focus for) by practicing for 1 hour with the new weapon for each instance of this ability that he desires to change.
Keen Focus (Ex): A myrmidon gets a bonus equal to his Wisdom bonus to all attack rolls made to confirm a critical hit. Additionally, creatures and constructs with immunity to criticals are instead treated as having 100% fortification whenever a myrmidon attacks with his favored weapon.
Keen Insight (Ex): A 3rd level myrmidon can study his target for one round in order to gain a +2 insight bonus for attack and threat range on his next attack. The myrmidon loses this bonus if the next target he attacks is not the one he studied. In addition, if the myrmidon studies more than one target before attacking, the bonus he receives against the target he studied most recently takes dominance and he loses all other bonuses from this ability he had prior.
A myrmidon only receives these bonuses if he attacks with his favored weapon.
If a myrmidon makes a keen strike after studying his target, his weapon’s threat range is doubled before the threat range bonus from Keen Insight is added
At 13th level, the time it takes for a myrmidon to study his target is reduced to a standard action. This essentially means that a myrmidon can study his opponent and move in the same round.
At 18th level, the insight bonus a myrmidon receives from studying his target increases to 3.
Ignore Fortification (Ex): At 4th level, a myrmidon is able to ignore 10% of the fortification that his targets have whenever he attacks. This applies to the 100% fortification that creatures and constructs with immunity to criticals are treated as having due to the Keen Focus ability. If such creatures or constructs are wearing fortified armor, they are treated as having over 100% fortification.
At 8th level, a myrmidon is able to ignore 20% of the fortification that his targets have whenever he attacks.
At 12th level, a myrmidon is able to ignore 30% of the fortification that his targets have whenever he attacks.
At 16th level, a myrmidon is able to ignore 40% of the fortification that his targets have whenever he attacks.
At 20th level, a myrmidon is able to ignore 50% of the fortification that his targets have whenever he attacks.
Wounding Strike (Ex): A 10th level myrmidon can give up a single use of his Keen Strike ability for the day in order to try to deal a more wounding blow to his opponent. On his next attack (which must be with a weapon that he has the Weapon Focus feat for), his weapon is treated as having the wounding special ability. A myrmidon cannot make a keen strike on the same attack that he designates as being a wounding strike. A myrmidon must declare which attacks he designates to be wounding strikes before attacking.
Vorpal Strike (Ex): A 17th level myrmidon can give up a single use of his Keen Strike ability for day in order to make his weapon more likely to slay his opponent in a single blow. On his next attack (which must be with a weapon that he has the Weapon Focus feat for), his weapon is treated as having the vorpal descriptor. A myrmidon cannot make a keen strike or wounding strike on the same attack that he designates a vorpal strike. A myrmidon must declare which attacks he designates to be vorpal strikes before attacking.


---------------------------------------------------------------

During the alpha-version of this class, I had made an ability called Climactic Clash. Thing is, I could not figure out an appropriate level to place it at. Now, I reconfigured it to keep up with the edits I have already made to the class, but I am still unsure about how its mechanics should work and where I should add it in (assuming if I should add it in at all), so I posted it below to get your feedback.

Climactic Clash (Ex): As a full-round action, a myrmidon can initiate a climactic clash using his favored weapon. When doing so, a myrmidon gains an extra attack at his highest base attack bonus in addition to his other attacks, but takes a -4 on all attack rolls. However, his favored weapon’s threat range is increased by 2, cumulatively, for every successful attack roll he makes during a climactic clash (determine each critical after all attacks have been made, and resolve them accordingly).
A myrmidon cannot initiate a climactic clash if he had attacked during his previous turn; however, a myrmidon can study a target using his Keen Insight ability then initiate a climactic clash during the following turn. In addition, initiating a climactic clash requires you to give up 2 uses of your Keen Strike ability for the day.
Any increases to threat range granted from a climactic clash cannot be doubled by such means as using a keen weapon as your favored weapon, the Improved Critical feat, and the Keen Strike ability. Instead, these bonuses are applied after the weapon’s threat range has been doubled.



Now, before you ask, I've adapted this class from the myrmidon base class seen often in Fire Emblem games...

Dancing_Zephyr
2006-11-15, 12:09 AM
I like the idea. A lot. I enjoy greeek mythology and the like.

I would like to point out that the wording of the abilities are very odd. For starters I'd give them an ability like:
Favorite Weapon: The Myrmidon choses one weapon he's proficient with. He gains the Weapon Focus feat for that weapon. A myrmidon may chose to change his favorite weapon, but doing so take ? days of dedicated practice.
Rather than give them a weapon focus feat.

Then make all the weapon abilities (strikes, ignore fortification, increased crit) dependant on the favorite weapon.

Also stay away from bizare numbers. Did you mean to give him full BAB or +19? I haven't seen a intermediary save yet, unless they exist elsewhere stick to the +6 or +12.

I'll elaborate tomorrow when i'm not so tired.

Thray
2006-11-15, 01:04 AM
As pointed out, you have the bab start at 0 instead of 1, and have a weird save progression for fort. My reccomendations:

Drop the fort save to poor. Drop keen strike and simply give them improved critical at 8th level as a bonus feat. Change Wounding Strike to Weakening Critical (2 points of str damage on each confirmed critical hit). Bump Vorpal strike up to 16th level, and change it to Wounding Critical (2 points of con damage on a confirmed crit).

Keen insight is strangely worded. How does the level 13 ability allow them to observe and attack in the same round? I'd reccomend dropping it entirely, and adding sneak attack every 4 levels or so (or perhaps every six levels, along with Telling Blow as a bonus feat).

Fizban
2006-11-15, 01:13 AM
Do I detect another Fire Emblem player?
Anyway, I'd link the version from the wizard's boards, but there site is down for the moment. Yours is interesting, but seems just a tad ability lacking for 20 levels. By ability lacking I mean it just improves old abilities without gaining new ones. Balance? I'm not the one to ask about that.

Crunk-gore
2006-11-15, 02:41 AM
Dancing_Zephyr - Thanks for the kudos. I found your suggestions to be very helpful.

Thray - Thanks for you comments. I took all that you had to say into consideration and made some changes to try to make the class more manageable and comprehendible.

Fizban - *lol* Yes, I do play Fire Emblem, and I'm a big fan of the series. Hmm, I'm very much interested in seeing the wizards' version to compare and contrast. Finally, I agree that the abilities, indeed, seem lacking for a 20 level class. There were several abilities that I drafted up during the alpha-version of the class that I would have liked to squeeze in, but I was iffy on their mechanics. Such an ability would be the Climactic Clash ability that I have listed in my first post.

Squatting_Monk
2006-11-15, 02:54 AM
Favored Weapon: ...A myrmidon may chose to change his favored weapon, but doing so takes 1 day of dedicated practice.

Hmm... I'm seeing this being abused a lot. Is it your intent that players can be switching weapons all the time, depending on what they think they'll need tomorrow? If so, sounds good. If not, though, I'd recommend making it so he can change his Favored Weapon at a level-up.

Nifty class. Good work.

Fireball.Man.Guy.
2006-11-15, 07:06 AM
Uhh, at lv. 20, using a falchion and the climactic clash, I crit on 5-20 x4. I'm no balance freak, but thats broken. And that's without using magic weapons.

sigurd
2006-11-15, 07:13 AM
With such a focus on crit range these fellows are going to be 2handed fighters. Big weapons.


Sigurd

Fireball.Man.Guy.
2006-11-15, 07:53 AM
Works with a scimitar too.

Crunk-gore
2006-11-15, 08:14 AM
Squatting Monk - Thanks for the compliment. I was aiming to make their abilities more lenient as far as weapons are concerned, but allowing them to change their favored weapon each time they level is a good idea.

Fireball.Man.Guy. - Your concern is noted, but that is why I posted the Climactic Clash ability--to get some help on balancing it.

sigurd - *lol* Well, that would be true, but they aren't proficient with two-handed weapons.

Closet_Skeleton
2006-11-15, 11:59 AM
Okay I suppose. Almost makes me want to post my game screwing Mameket class. It's not really broken, it just doesn't balance well with other classes and is based off Dragon HD. It would be less broken if it wasn't based off Dragon HD but it would be sort of lame without them.

Squatting_Monk
2006-11-15, 02:05 PM
Btw, I'm assuming that the Myrmidon's Keen Strike ability does not stack with the Keen ability on weapons. Is this correct? If it is, is there any purpose for using the Keen Strike ability once the Myrmidon has obtained a Keen Vorpal weapon (which would essentially give him unlimited Keen Strikes and Vorpal Strikes)?

Crunk-gore
2006-11-16, 08:11 PM
Squatting Monk -

Actually, the Keen Strike ability does stack with the Keen ability on weapons. This is so because of the denotation, "as though it were keened". The "as though" portion of the clause implies that a myrmidon attacks with his favored weapon "in the same way that it would be if" his favored weapon was a Keen weapon. This just means that the threat range of the myrmidon's favored weapon would be doubled in the same way as it would if it were a Keen weapon; however, it does not gain the Keen descriptor, nor does it become a Keen weapon. If it were to be so that a weapon used in a keen strike gains the Keen descriptor for the attack, it would read something to the effect of "when a myrmidon initiates a Keen Strike, his favored weapon gains the Keen ability descriptor for one attack". So in effect, the effects of a Keen weapon and Keen Strike would stack.

Now as far as Vorpal Strike is concerned, yes, it does bestow the Vorpal descriptor on his favored weapon. Now indeed, this ability would be rendered obsolete if a myrmidon possessed a Vorpal weapon as his favored weapon; however, considering that not every weapon in the myrmidon's arsenal is a Vorpal weapon (when looking at the price it takes to forge a weapon as a Vorpal weapon), Vorpal Strike tends to be more versatile. Whenever a myrmidon changes his current favored weapon (which is Vorpal) in order to designate another weapon (which isn't Vorpal) as his favored weapon to prepare for an upcoming situation, he can thusly make that weapon into a Vorpal weapon using the Vorpal Strike ability.

Hope this cleared up any misconceptions. Your questions were very good ones, and thanks for the feedback.


Closet_Skeleton - Thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately, I haven't actually managed to test my Myrmidon class in an appropriate game setting yet. So I am still unsure about its practicality and how well it balances with other classes.

Squatting_Monk
2006-11-17, 12:06 AM
Wow, if Keen Strike stacks with the Keen property, that seriously overpowers the class, I think. Using a rapier, a 20th level Myrmidon could achieve a critical threat range of 6-20x4. Throw in Climactic Clash, and you could get a range of 1-20x4 with only four of your five attacks connecting. That's a critical on every hit, and it sounds too powerful.

Let's build a sample Myrmidon and see how he works out.

Crunk-Gore, Level 20 Human Myrmidon
Abilities: STR 22 (+6), DEX 26 (+8), WIS 22 (+6) (all that's relevant)
Class Feats: Keen Strike (13x/day), Weapon Focus: Rapier, Increased Crit Multiplier (x4), Keen Focus, Keen Insight (x3), Ignore Fortification, Wounding Strike, Vorpal Strike, Climactic Clash
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Improved Critical: Rapier
Items: +5 Keen Flaming Burst/Shocking Burst Rapier, Periapt of Wisdom +6, Belt of Giant's Strength +6, Gloves of Dexterity +6, Boots of Speed
Attack Bonus: +27/+22/17/+12:+27 (Haste)
Damage: 1d6+1d6 (fire)+1d6 (electricity)+6 (STR)+5 (enchantment) = 3d6+11 (avg. 22.5 dmg.)
Crit Damage: (1d6+11)x4 + (3d10 fire + 3d10 electricity) = avg. 91 dmg.
Crit Range: 12-20x4 (+6 to confirm crit)

Okay, I only statted out this puppy with what I need to make my point. He can have a boatload more feats and equipment, but this works for our purposes.

Now, Chunk-Gore decides to study a foe, and then attack once. He'll make a Keen Strike, so we'll add that bonus first (according to the rules you made): double the threat range of the weapon for total of 9-20x4. With Keen Insight, he gains a +3 bonus on his attack (total of +30) and a +3 to crit range (total of 6-20x4). He rolls an 11, an average roll. Assuming an attack roll of 41 hits (likely), this let's him roll to confirm his critical. Again, he rolls an average, this time 10. He gets his +6 WIS bonus to confirm, giving him a critical threat confirmation of 46. Critical hit for an average of 91 dmg.

Now, let's see what a full attack (with haste also) would be on average. Assuming the bonus from Keen Insight only applies on the first attack and not all attacks in the round (seems to be the case), the attacks would look like this, assuming an average roll of 10-11:
{table=head]Attack #|Crit Range|Avg. Roll|Avg. Crit Roll
1|6-20x4|40|46
2|9-20x4|32|38
3|9-20x4|27|33
4|9-20x4|22|28
5|9-20x4|37|43[/table]

Assuming a soft target (AC 20), all these attacks would hit for an average damage of 455 (max 640 damage). In one round. Ouch.

Let's see it with Climactic Clash. All we have to do is subtract 4 from each attack roll and add an extra attack at full BAB. Let's see how it looks:

{table=head]Attack #|Avg. Roll
1|36
2|28
3|23
4|18
5|33
6|33[/table]

Assuming the same soft target, only attack 4 would not hit, resulting in a cumulative increase in crit range of 10. That means all of these attacks will have a crit range of 1-20x4, with an average damage of 455.

So Climactic Clash will only help you with opponents with AC 18 or below (using these statistics). If your Myrmidon was buffed, however, he could do even more damage in one round. Just increasing his AB by 2 would yield an average of 546 damage (max of 768 damage). Blow his damage out of the water by throwing in some buffs that do even more damage. Better yet, change his rapier around to get rid of one of those bursts. Switch out Flaming Burst for Flaming and get a Bane for the extra enchantment. Voila, sacrifice 3d10 fire damage on a critical hit to get 4d6 fire damage + 8d6 damage versus the foe the sword is designed for (max damage 1020 with no damage buffs).

So yeah, I think making the Keen Strike ability stack makes it waaaay too powerful.

lsfreak
2006-11-17, 02:01 AM
As others have said, the critting gets a bit rediculous.
While this could be a task in itself, I think having the "massive criticals" that the Knights of the Old Republic 2 game (and perhaps others, although this is the frist time I've seen it) has would be a benefit to you. In addition to multiplied damage on a crit, a certain number of damage is added. For example, you might have a weapon that 19-20/x2 +2, dealing and extra 2 damage on top of critical damage. If you impliment it (which as I said might take a bit of work), you could substitite massive criticals for increased threat ranges and multipliers.

Also, it's far too easy to switch weapon type and individual weapon. Instead of one day, far more reasonable would be one week every two class levels, and one day/2 levels for switching individual weapons. This is *not* something that should be easily switched.

These are the blaring problems I see for now, unfortunately I don't have time for more details.

Fizban
2006-11-19, 01:47 AM
Dancing_Zephyr - Thanks for the kudos. I found your suggestions to be very helpful.

Thray - Thanks for you comments. I took all that you had to say into consideration and made some changes to try to make the class more manageable and comprehendible.

Fizban - *lol* Yes, I do play Fire Emblem, and I'm a big fan of the series. Hmm, I'm very much interested in seeing the wizards' version to compare and contrast. Finally, I agree that the abilities, indeed, seem lacking for a 20 level class. There were several abilities that I drafted up during the alpha-version of the class that I would have liked to squeeze in, but I was iffy on their mechanics. Such an ability would be the Climactic Clash ability that I have listed in my first post.
Not a Wizard's version, just one posted on their boards.
Link (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=527226)

TimeWizard
2006-11-21, 09:30 AM
I have to say I love the idea, as an avid Fire Emblam fan myself, I too wanted a crit master in DnD. However, there just doesn't seem enough meat here for a base class, but it might be a great 10 level PrC. Until then, i just have to stick to my Fighter Feat tree for crit specials.

Closet_Skeleton
2006-11-21, 01:49 PM
Needs more Killing Edge... Also needs more defensive abilities, If Fire Emblem Myrmidon gets hit twice then he's dead but DnD doesn't really model dodge based fighters well. I'd suggest giving him an unarmoured only armour class bonus that improves with levels similar to a monk gets. It doesn't need to be that high since he should specialise in killing opponents before they can attack him.

Or Wo Dao, I think that was called Katana in the Japanese version but I'm not sure.

Most balancing issues can be done with statistical analysis like Squatting Monk showed. For my Mameket class I compared it with what a fighter could do at the same level assuming the fighter had decent equipment. Being able to fly and breath fire confused things in that case however.

The Massive Criticals ability in KOTOR was in NWN first and is just Bioware modeling stuff like the Flaming Burst property from the Dungeon Masters Guide. The Overwhelming Critical [Epic] feat from Epic Level Handbook is similar as well.