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Clericzilla
2013-03-15, 07:43 PM
The three types of saving throws that I was thinking about is Mundane, Spells, and Items. Each will be a Will, Ref, or Fort save of that type. This will better show the training that the class has given the character.

Mundane saving throws include but not limited to the following. Natural Hazards
Enemy Extraordinary Attacks
Non-Magical Traps

Spell saving throws include but are not limited to the following. Spells
Spell-Like Abilities
Supernatural Abilities

Item saving throws include but are not limited to the following. Wands
Staffs
Scrolls
Magical Traps
Misc item effects that grant saving throws

Each class gains a High, Medium, and Low saving throw progression for each of the three save types (mundane, spell, item). This is the player's choice as to which saving throw is high, medium, or low.

From level 1 to level 20
High Save: 2 - 12
Medium Save: 0 - 9
Low Save: 0 - 6

Charlie the Level 20 Fighter gains Mundane (High), Spell (Medium), and Item (Low) for his save progressions due to his class. Charlie's ability scores are Con: 20, Dex: 16, and Wis: 14

If Charlie is hit by an Ex Ability (poison ability, breath weapon, sweet talking bard's song or such.)
Mundane Fort Save: 12 + 5 + Other/Feat: +17
Mundane Ref Save: 12 + 3 + Other/Feat: +15
Mundane Will Save:12+ 2 + Other/Feat: +14

Charlie has trained his entire life to be able to overcome all mundane obstacles. These can be anything from poison injected into his system or the sweet talking bard that is trying to get him to sell his +5 Vorpal sword to the bard for 10 gp.

If Charlie is hit by a Spell (fireball, confusion, inflict light wounds.)
Spell Fort Save: 9 + 5 + Other/Feat: +14
Spell Ref Save: 9 + 3 + Other/Feat: +12
Spell Will Save: 9 + 2 + Other/Feat: +11

Charlie may not know how to cast spells, but between being shot at spells his entire life and the fact that Fighter college has "Wizards 101"class that had said wizards shoot spells at the members of the classes.... Those wizards had way to much fun with that...

If Charlie is hit by an Item (wand of fireball, scroll of slow, or magical trap)
Item Fort Save: 6 + 5 + Other/Feat: +11
Item Ref Save: 6 + 3 + Other/Feat: +9
Item Will Save: 6 + 2 + Other/Feat: +8

However Fighters are not shown items to much, most of those contraptions are to technical for fighters to really learn to use. Charlie the Fighter can't really defend himself against magic items and magical traps to well.

Notes

Before: If you have a bad save then no matter what you will always suck, no matter what the source.

Now: Your ability scores still matter but you aren't screwed every dang time you have to take a reflex/fort/will save.

What this means: Have you ever built a character that every single time the DM said "make a will save", "make a reflex save", or "make a fort save" you just cringe? Now while playing a character with a low wisdom score you know that some times you will have a good chance of passing the DC.

Note^2: One thing I would also change about the system is to make the DC of spells and other effects more stream line and less able to go into absurd levels.

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So does the playground think that this does any good or is just more trouble than it's worth?

Kane0
2013-03-16, 04:45 AM
Actually it reminds me of the AD&D saves. It had things like save vs spell, save vs breath weapon, save vs wand/rod/staff, etc.

You may want to check that out if you haven't already, it was pretty much where the three current saves came from (being a slight simplification form AD&D to 3rd ed).

PEACH
2013-03-16, 04:53 AM
This introduces a needless layer of complexity, and it still results in you having certain bad saves; they're just shunted in different directions. I don't really see the purpose of implementing something that increases the amount of work that needs to be done that doesn't have any clear design goal, since "eliminate weak saves" isn't really the case when you can still easily have saves that are pretty low.

erikun
2013-03-16, 08:47 AM
This looks like it just adds a bunch of complexity (nine saves rather than three) and does not really improve anything. Your Fighter 20 with 14 WIS still has a terribly weak save, it's just an "item will save" rather than simply a will save.

If you want to introduce a moderate save track to produce less "poor" saves, then the current system would work just fine for that goal. (And I'm not sure why a Fighter would have poor magic resistance either. They're the ones most frequently targetted by magic, after all.)