Making a Race Based on Volibear from LoL

[drax75]

Volibear (Ursine)
Magical Beast
Large Size

Racial Ability Score Increases:
STR: +16
DEX: +2
CON: +8
WIS: +2
INT: -2
CHA: +0

Natural Attacks:
2 Claw's 1d8 each
1 Bite 2d6

Racial Feature's:
Natural Armor +5
Improved Grab
+8 Swim Check (can take 10)
+12 Hide in Snowy Terrain
Scent, and Low Light Vision

LA: +3

No Racial Hit dice

Is this too powerful for a +3? If so what should i change? I feel like i should take away Improved grab and Maybe the skill Increases.

I felt Like Half Dragon was a good comparison, but where half dragon has a crazy cone damage and immunities, this race has higher ability score's, and some nice skill/feat bonuses.

I also feel like Half Dragon is actually much stronger so i am tempted to lower the LA by 1 and make it LA 2 instead of 3

Thoughts anyone?

[Cidolfas]

Why no RHD? I would much prefer that to LA, which brings me to my main point that I think Voli and many other League champions work much better as monster write-ups than races.

The half-dragon may well be stronger, but an SRD template that gives LA and a crap-ton of silly things while the LA +0 dragonborn is a much more reasonable medium is not necessarily the guideline to follow.

As far as the bear is concerned, I think a Large size monster with thunder claws and a throw probably only comes out to something like CR 5.

[drax75]

Why no RHD? I would much prefer that to LA, which brings me to my main point that I think Voli and many other League champions work much better as monster write-ups than races.

The half-dragon may well be stronger, but an SRD template that gives LA and a crap-ton of silly things while the LA +0 dragonborn is a much more reasonable medium is not necessarily the guideline to follow.

As far as the bear is concerned, I think a Large size monster with thunder claws and a throw probably only comes out to something like CR 5.

Mainly because i want to avoid using the Racial Hit dice + LA. I mean i could maybe do 2 HD plus a +1 LA thats still a total of 3. But without LA technically your not supposed to play it. I dont think i can do a HD +3 and 0 LA can I?

I was planning to try and play this in a game, and go Warblade with it. Something like a charger build.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Volibear (Ursine)
Magical Beast
Large Size

Racial Ability Score Increases:
STR: +16
DEX: +2
CON: +8
WIS: +2
INT: -2
CHA: +0

Natural Attacks:
2 Claw's 1d8 each
1 Bite 2d6

Racial Feature's:
Natural Armor +5
Improved Grab
+8 Swim Check (can take 10)
+12 Hide in Snowy Terrain
Scent, and Low Light Vision

LA: +3

No Racial Hit dice

Is this too powerful for a +3? If so what should i change? I feel like i should take away Improved grab and Maybe the skill Increases.

I felt Like Half Dragon was a good comparison, but where half dragon has a crazy cone damage and immunities, this race has higher ability score's, and some nice skill/feat bonuses.

I also feel like Half Dragon is actually much stronger so i am tempted to lower the LA by 1 and make it LA 2 instead of 3

Thoughts anyone?

This is insanely powerful for LA +3 because of the Strength bonus. Try LA +7.

[drax75]

This is insanely powerful for LA +3 because of the Strength bonus. Try LA +7.

In terms of STR; Half Dragon has a +8 for a LA +3 but also has immunities to a element, a breath weapon, and if its large size Flight all for a LA +3.

If we nix the flight, Immunities, and breath Weapon i think that can buy us some more STR

Can it not?

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

In terms of STR; Half Dragon has a +8 for a LA +3 but also has immunities to a element, a breath weapon, and if its large size Flight all for a LA +3.

If we nix the flight, Immunities, and breath Weapon i think that can buy us some more STR

Can it not?

Half-dragon only grants flight if you're Large-sized or larger (which requires more Hit Dice and level adjustment). The elemental immunity is nice but situational. The breath weapon can only be used once per day. Also, the abilities are all diluted because they're diverse and not focused.

A level 5 bear fighter can severely out-class a level 8 human fighter in to-hit bonus and damage output, while still having about the same number of hit points. A level 5 bear fighter will win any fight with a level 5 half-dragon human fighter unless they're so low-level that the half-dragon can one-shot the bear with his breath weapon.

I recommend you use what's called the "acid test". Make a human using your race's favored class, and then compare all of his stats to a character of your race with the same ECL. You'll see that (if they're both using two-handed Power Attack builds) at most levels compared to a human fighter your bear has about a +5 bonus to attack rolls and roughly the same damage, which is absolutely ridiculous.

LA +7 is appropriate considering the bear's focused melee combat abilities. You could probably include cold immunity and a few other neat abilities and still leave it at LA +7, because focused abilities are more powerful than diluted abilities. You have set LA considering the strongest possible build someone could make using your race.

[Ir0npanda]

Volibear was just an expy from His Dark Materials anyway.

Magical Beast (Awakened Polar Bear) with armor proficiencies and bonuses to crafting skills.

[drax75]

Half-dragon only grants flight if you're Large-sized or larger (which requires more Hit Dice and level adjustment). The elemental immunity is nice but situational. The breath weapon can only be used once per day. Also, the abilities are all diluted because they're diverse and not focused.

A level 5 bear fighter can severely out-class a level 8 human fighter in to-hit bonus and damage output, while still having about the same number of hit points. A level 5 bear fighter will win any fight with a level 5 half-dragon human fighter unless they're so low-level that the half-dragon can one-shot the bear with his breath weapon.

I recommend you use what's called the "acid test". Make a human using your race's favored class, and then compare all of his stats to a character of your race with the same ECL. You'll see that (if they're both using two-handed Power Attack builds) at most levels compared to a human fighter your bear has about a +5 bonus to attack rolls and roughly the same damage, which is absolutely ridiculous.

Fair argument's i enjoy the debate, but their are template's and low LA ways to become large size.

As for your acid test would not a Goliath or half Giant beat a Human fighter in a straight up duel? Those are considered balanced in the DnD World. I'd argue so would a Drow Fighter 3, beat a Human Fighter 5 between darkness and faerie fire.

And if they are both 1 level of fighter the Half Dragon could beat the Bear just with a breath weapon and melee attack.

How about a suggestion; since you saw that i tried to compare this to a Half Dragon, how about providing me with what you would make the stats come out to be? Needs to be LA+3 and be as powerful as a Half Dragon.

Theme is a Large Armored Bear that charges ferociously into battle, and out of combat is intelligent, and Tactical.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

How about a suggestion; since you saw that i tried to compare this to a Half Dragon, how about providing me with what you would make the stats come out to be? Needs to be LA+3 and be as powerful as a Half Dragon.

Start with a minotaur or ogre. I can't think of a good base that doesn't involve racial Hit Dice. Racial Hit Dice are there to put a minimum ECL on the creature so that you don't get nonsensical things like a 1st level ECL 9 character who can die to a single longsword attack, but they're also important at higher levels because they give you more feats to work with and do advance base attack bonus, saving throws, and skill points (which all make it easier to qualify for prestige classes).

[Just to Browse]

+16 is a lot of strength but it is in no way worth +7 LA. Heck, LA +3 is basically unplayable because of how squishy it makes you, and the +16 strength gives you (most likely) +8 to hit, +12 damage, so you become a crazy glass cannon because you're starting off with maybe 20 HP at most.

You can certainly make HD 3 and LA +0. IIRC, WotC has never done such a thing, but LA+0 races exist, and races with LA and RHD exist, so races with RHD and LA +0 isn't much of a stretch.

Of course, I'm not sure if you want volibear or an ursine. "Ursine" means bear, so you could probably just riff right from any bear's text. Polar bears could work, but they have RHD 8 and you appear to be looking for something playable. So let's look at this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/bearBlack.htm). That's a medium sized creature with a three-attack full attack, bonus strength, dex, con, and wis. I'd say that's good enough for us to use as a base.

Replace that swim bonus with Acclimation to cold environments, and then roll with these stats:
Str +8
Con +4
Natural Armor equal to Constitution modifier.

This thing comes with literally nothing else, so making the numbers useful will help it be effective in combat (but not help it be interesting, welp). Give it full BAB (+3), all good saves (+3), and the ability to wear heavy armor.

Writing up a class of "bear warrior" or something could lead to giving volibear-style throws, intimidation, lightning fists, fast healing, large size, and some better damage, but what I have above is probably balanced to the rogue, warblade and psywar.

[drax75]

+16 is a lot of strength but it is in no way worth +7 LA. Heck, LA +3 is basically unplayable because of how squishy it makes you, and the +16 strength gives you (most likely) +8 to hit, +12 damage, so you become a crazy glass cannon because you're starting off with maybe 20 HP at most.

You can certainly make HD 3 and LA +0. IIRC, WotC has never done such a thing, but LA+0 races exist, and races with LA and RHD exist, so races with RHD and LA +0 isn't much of a stretch.

Of course, I'm not sure if you want volibear or an ursine. "Ursine" means bear, so you could probably just riff right from any bear's text. Polar bears could work, but they have RHD 8 and you appear to be looking for something playable. So let's look at this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/bearBlack.htm). That's a medium sized creature with a three-attack full attack, bonus strength, dex, con, and wis. I'd say that's good enough for us to use as a base.

Replace that swim bonus with Acclimation to cold environments, and then roll with these stats:
Str +8
Con +4
Natural Armor equal to Constitution modifier.

This thing comes with literally nothing else, so making the numbers useful will help it be effective in combat (but not help it be interesting, welp). Give it full BAB (+3), all good saves (+3), and the ability to wear heavy armor.

Writing up a class of "bear warrior" or something could lead to giving volibear-style throws, intimidation, lightning fists, fast healing, large size, and some better damage, but what I have above is probably balanced to the rogue, warblade and psywar.

See this i like, feedback with a alternate idea to keep it at the LA i wanted.

I know LA3 is typically not playable, thats the point this isnt to power game or munchkin the game im in. the point was to play a big ole armored bear.

As for the charges i was thinking going with the Warblade Charger build with his natural weapons as his main weapons of use. It doesnt do a ton of damage but seems like a cool thematic.

I had feats setup for something like: Power Attack, Multi attack, Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper, and Leap attack. On a Warblade with pouncing charge and other such abilities.

The goal was to make a base race that embodies Volibear, but then to leave it open for others to play. I believe Voli was just a member of this race with some class levels and magic items etc.

So the next question is, do we keep it large size Since in MM 1 the Polar bear is a Large Size creature? Also do we keep the Natural attacks?

Maybe require a mix of RHD and LA to get Large? Voli would be considered very Large in comparison to normal people so i feel Large size is a must for a Race of Polar Bears.