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Blinkbear
2006-11-23, 08:00 PM
In the thread Fighter Balancing (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28134) some other people from the boards here and I were (and still are) discussing how to balance fighters and/or making them more valuable for players. We came up with many ideas and I tried to put some of them into the following fighter variant. I will put a link to this thread here into the fighter balancing thread.

Please only comment on that fighter class variant, if you want to come up with alternative solutions how to balance and/or change fighters, please go to the fighter balance thread. THANK YOU!

Fighter Variant

This variant of the fighter base class tries to add both balance and flavor to the fighter base class. It tries to make fighter levels more worthy than just to take a few levels to get some bonus feats. This variant is NOT designed to solve balance issues in pvp battles, especially against arcane casters.


Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d10

Class Skills
The fighter's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (STR), Craft (INT), Handle Animal (CHA), Intimidate (CHA), Jump (STR), Knowledge (Local) (INT), Knowledge (Royalty and Nobility) (INT), Profession (WIS), Ride (DEX), Swim (STR), Tumble (DEX).

Skill points at first level: (4 + INT-Modifier) x 4
Skill points at each additional level: 4 + INT-Modifier


The Fighter Variant
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1
|
+2
|
+0
|
+0
|Bonus Feat

2nd|
+2
|
+3
|
+0
|
+0
|Bonus Feat

3rd|
+3
|
+3
|
+1
|
+1
|Combat Lore

4th|
+4
|
+4
|
+1
|
+1
|Bonus Feat

5th|
+5
|
+4
|
+1
|
+1
|Combat Lore

6th|
+6/+1
|
+5
|
+2
|
+2
|Bonus Feat

7th|
+7/+2
|
+5
|
+2
|
+2
|Combat Lore

8th|
+8/+3
|
+6
|
+2
|
+2
|Bonus Feat

9th|
+9/+4
|
+6
|
+3
|
+3
|Combat Lore

10th|
+10/+5
|
+7
|
+3
|
+3
|Bonus Feat

11th|
+11/+6/+1
|
+7
|
+3
|
+3
|Combat Lore

12th|
+12/+7/+2
|
+8
|
+4
|
+4
|Bonus Feat

13th|
+13/+8/+3
|
+8
|
+4
|
+4
|Combat Lore

14th|
+14/+9/+4
|
+9
|
+4
|
+4
|Bonus Feat

15th|
+15/+10/+5
|
+9
|
+5
|
+5
|Combat Lore

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1
|
+10
|
+5
|
+5
|Bonus Feat

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2
|
+10
|
+5
|
+5
|Combat Lore

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3
|
+11
|
+6
|
+6
|Bonus Feat

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4
|
+11
|
+6
|
+6
|Combat Lore

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5
|
+12
|
+6
|
+6
|Bonus Feat

[/table]


Class Features:

Bonus Feats
At 1st level, a fighter gets a bonus combat-oriented feat in addition to the feat that any 1st-level character gets and the bonus feat granted to a human character. The fighter gains an additional bonus feat at 2nd level and every two fighter levels thereafter (4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th, and 20th). These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats. A fighter must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums. These bonus feats are in addition to the feat that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. A fighter is not limited to the list of fighter bonus feats when choosing these feats.


Combat Lore
Starting at third level and continuing at every odd level (5., 7., 9., 11., 13., 15., 17., 19.) a fighter can select a Combat Lore from the following list. Abilities gained from this class feature do never go away in antimagic fields, nor do they are affected by the form the fighter is in, including those acquired through polymorph effects. The Combat Lore Abilites resemble the enorm combat skill that fighters have and that distinguishes them from the members of other character classes. Combat Lore Abilities are (and should stay) restricted to members of the fighter class. Some of the Combat Lore Abilities have a minimum fighter level to take it as a prerequesite, when no minimum level is given it is assumed 3 (the first level where you select a Combat Lore Ability).

Leaping Cleave
Normally you can not take a five foot step between cleave attacks. This ability allows you to make one (and only one in this round) five foot step between two of your attacks. Obviously that only gives a benefit to those who already have the "cleave" feat, though it is not a prerequisite.

Charge Expert
You learned how to charge in a way to still defend yourself. You don't have to accept the -2 penalty to your armor class.

Lion's Charge Minimum fighter level: 11
After making a charge you can still make a full attack action. You have to do it after your movement and are not allowed a further 5-foot-step this round. The +2 bonus that normally applies to your one attack roll, now applies to your first attack. Each other attack roll you make in this full attack is at a -2 penalty because you have to become stable after rushing into the enemy.

Master all Weapons Minimum fighter level: 9
You can wield all weapons (even improvised) that are suited for your size without penalty. This ability does not give you the proficiency with a specific weapon or weapon group, it only eliminates the penalty, so this ability can not fulfill a proficiency requirement for a prestige class or similar.

Weapon Group Focus Minimum fighter level: 5
You can use your knowledge and skill with one specific weapon (one you already got weapon focus in) for a whole group of similar weapons. Here are some suggestions, you should discuss the list with your DM:
- Swords and Sabers
- Axes
- Hammers, Clubs and Maces
or:
- All Slashing Weapons
- All Bludgeoning Weapons
- All Piercing Weapons

Weapon Group Specialisation Minimum fighter level: 7
This works just like "Weapon Group Focus", just replace "Weapon Focus" with "Weapon Specialisation".

Weapon Group Focus, Greater Minimum fighter level: 9
This works just like "Weapon Group Focus", just replace "Weapon Focus" with "Greater Weapon Focus".

Weapon Group Specialization, Greater Minimum fighter level: 13
This works just like "Weapon Group Focus", just replace "Weapon Focus" with "Greater Weapon Specialization".

Fast Learner
When you take this Combat Lore Ability, you can add your INT-Modifier to your fighter level to determine if you can select a Combat Lore Ability or not. Some Combat Lore Abilities may still only work in combination with feats that require a higher fighter level.

Initiative Mastery
You can add double your dexterity modifier to initiative checks instead of only one time. The in this way added value (one time your dexterity modifier) may not exceed one half your class level (round down).

Hard to fool
You are trained in sensing what your enemy does next. You add a +4 bonus to sense motive checks made to avoid being feinted and a +2 dodge bonus to your touch AC against attacks that initiate a special attack (e.g. grapple).

Hard to frighten
You are able to suppress your instinct in certain situations. You add your intelligence modifier to will saves against fear effects. You also get a bonus to such effects equal to one fourth your fighter level (round down, minimum 0).

Practise over Talent
You are practicing very hard and are able to do maneuvers as if you would have higher physical ability. When determining if you meet the prerequisites for a fighter feat, you can replace your current ability score in DEX, STR or CON with 10 + your fighter level. You can not use this feat to emulate highter ability scores in mental abilities, nor do you gain any other effect related with your so generated physical ability score.

Parry Magic
You trained to better resist spellcasters and those who wield spell-like abilities. Once per day per four fighter levels (round down) you can perform a cunning parry with a weapon against magical effects: When you are directly targeted with a magical effect and you are wielding a melee weapon you have weapon focus in, you can try to intervene immediately: You make an attack roll with this weapon - with all appropriate modifiers (power attack, expertise etc.) opposed by a caster level check (1d20+caster level) of your opponent. When your opponent wins you failed to parry. If you win the opposed check you deflect the effect as if noone had thrown it to you. Your weapon does not take damage from this. You can use this ability against all spells or spell like abilities that are targeted directly against you and which are NOT melee touch attacks. It has NO effect on area spells. It also has NO effect created effects that attack you like summoned creatures or that somehow hinder you and are not targeted directly at you, like forcecage. You can NOT use this ability when flat-footed. Using the ability counts as an immediate action. Note: The magical effects do NOT backfire at the caster.


[hr]

The list of Combat Lore Abilities will grow constantly: I will put new ones into this first post and make a small post to mention the change.

PLEASE COMMENT :-) Much of the stuff needs further balancing and we need many additional combat lore abilities. So, DISCUSS!

Vazzaroth
2006-11-23, 08:18 PM
The Lion's Charge is a nice idea, but it needs to be alittle less strong. Right now, it is configured so that a fighter with it will most likely want to charge each and every round possible, for the "free" +2, as well as being able eto move AND full attack. Mabye limiting the attacks made to only two, or giving penalties would help.

Weapon Group Focus would work nicly with sliceing/pierceing/bludge. weapon catagories. More general that way, but still keeping the flavor of the abality, I think. This also helps the fighter compete with the Warblade's (From Tome of BAttle) ability to change weapon feats to new weapons.

Initiative Mastery is slightly too weak. It seems these lores are ment to be somewhat stronger than simple feats, and this is a replica of one. My suggestion is either adding +5, or saying you can use double your dex (with a cap, mabye up to +8?10?). This rewards dex-spec'd fighters even more than just improved init would.

This is interesting, Blink, and I've always liked class options similar to the rogue's higher level one. Mabye later I will think of some more Lore to add. :P

Edit: From the FIghter Balanceing thread, I think this could work well as lore:


At 13th level the fighter becomes able to move his full speed in medium armor. At 17th level this ability improves to cover heavy armor.


I think those levels are somewhat high, but adding this speed ability would be nice. I think running in Heavy should continue being reduced, however. Full plate will never be as manuverable as a chain shirt. Period.

Blinkbear
2006-11-23, 08:28 PM
Initiative Mastery is slightly too weak. It seems these lores are ment to be somewhat stronger than simple feats, and this is a replica of one. My suggestion is either adding +5, or saying you can use double your dex (with a cap, mabye up to +8?10?). This rewards dex-spec'd fighters even more than just improved init would.


What about changing initiative mastery to "You can add double your dexterity modifier to initiative checks instead of only one time. The in this way added value (one time your dexterity modifier) may not exceed one half your class level (round down)."

Vazzaroth
2006-11-23, 08:35 PM
The in this way added value (one time your dexterity modifier) may not exceed one half your class level (round down)."

That sounds good. It's nice for the fighter to be able to have his init. slowly creep up as he levels (assuming it's high.)

I just can't stop thinking about a high power varient game where a character might have a 25 Dex or something and this ability getting out of hand. BUT I think your writeing of the rule should work. :smallsmile:

Blinkbear
2006-11-23, 08:47 PM
I changed the Initiative Mastery Combat Lore Ability and added the idea of applying the Weapon Group X Abilities to damage types instead of weapon families.

Miles Invictus
2006-11-24, 03:12 AM
I love it. In fact, I love it so much, I'm going to contribute a few suggestions to the pot. :smallsmile:

Mobility Training
Requirement: Fighter 5
Benefit: Gain an unnamed 5-foot bonus to your move speed, so long as you are wearing no, light, or medium armor. This stacks with all other sources of increased movement speed.

Improved Mobility Training
Requirement: Fighter 11
Benefit: Gain an unnamed 5-foot bonus to your move speed. This stacks with all other sources of increased movement speed.

Persistent Threat
Requirement: Fighter 11, Initiative modifier of +3 or better.
Benefit: If you did not move on your last combat turn, you may take a single 5-foot step to make an attack of opportunity on a foe.

In other words, you threaten squares as if your weapon has an additional 5-foot reach. If this extra reach is necessary to conduct an attack of opportunity, then you must make a 5-foot step towards your target. If you do not want to move, then you do not make an attack of opportunity.

Pugilist
Requirement: Improved Unarmed Strike
Benefit: Your Fighter levels stack with your Monk levels for determining unarmed damage. You may multiclass freely between Monk and Fighter.
Special: A Fighter may take this as a bonus feat, rather than as Combat Lore.

Brawler
Requirement: Pugilist
Benefit: Gain the Flurry of Blows special ability. Your Fighter levels stack with your Monk levels for determining the effectiveness of Flurry of Blows. You can use Flurry of Blows in light armor as well as no armor.

Knockout Artist
Requirement: Pugilist and Stunning Fist
Benefit: Your Fighter levels stack with your Monk levels for determining the uses-per-day and save DC of your Stunning Fist attacks.

Blinkbear
2006-11-24, 03:47 AM
About Miles' Stuff:

With your "improved mobility training" you mean that you also get this bonus in heavy armor and that it stacks with "mobility training" when wearing un-heavy armor. Is that right?

The mobility training feats and the persistant threat sound nice, I will embed them soon into the main entry.

The three abilities followed sound like good additions to the fighter feat list, instead of the list of Combat Lore abilities don't they? With your permission I will add them to the main entry as bonus feats. One could then also add them as Combat Lore Abilities and say "as the bonus feat". We also need more precision about Pugilist and Brawler:

Puglist: Although it is an obvious multiclass helper feat, from the description so far it would be possible for a fighter to select "improved unarmed strike" and have the same damage progression as a monk. Is that want you wanted?

Brawler: Flurry of Blows like the monk - so only with monk weapons/unarmed or also with normal weapons?


Some new Stuff:

What about the idea of letting the fighter train in a field that is not his "typical" one? As a combat lore ability a fighter can select a skill that is not already his class skill and from this level on treat it as a class skill for his fighter levels? He could also get some bonus in it if you think that's too weak.

For example a third level fighter could easily take Diplomacy to do some more than shouting at people (intimidate) - of course intimidate will still be his class skill ;-). Or he could get sneaking abilties or whatnot.

Behold_the_Void
2006-11-24, 05:01 AM
I'm having trouble justifying spending all those combat lores on the group focuses when I might pick up the Mastery Feats in the PHBII to achieve the same effects.

Blinkbear
2006-11-24, 05:10 AM
I dont know about those... :( could you tell me what they are about?

Pegasos989
2006-11-24, 06:21 AM
Practically feats for which you need weapon spec in one weapon and the feat lets you apply it to all weapons of the same type (such as slashing)...

Blinkbear
2006-11-24, 06:29 AM
Okay. Well, then these combat lore abilites are a bit redundant. What I still like about them is that you can get access to a group of weapons that in your mind and that of the dm work well together: For example you could say you are a master of swords and by that get the group abilities for both short- and longsword - this would not work with damage types.

Blinkbear
2006-11-24, 07:35 AM
I added the combat lore ability Parry Magic to the list.

Please discuss/comment/feedback!

Morty
2006-11-24, 09:00 AM
Parry Magic is nice, but there are still many effects that can't be countered by it. On the other hand, such effects are meant to not be avoided easily, so that's OK. I'd make it work against cone effects, though.

XtheYeti
2006-11-24, 10:27 AM
Dude this is genious, now the only thing that fighters have to worry about is there not being any more feats that he wants to take... BWAHAHA!

Blinkbear
2006-11-24, 11:20 AM
I changed the lion's charge combat lore ability:

Lion's Charge Minimum fighter level: 11
After making a charge you can still make a full attack action. You have to do it after your movement and are not allowed a further 5-foot-step this round. The +2 bonus that normally applies to your one attack roll, now applies to your first attack. Each other attack roll you make in this full attack is at a -2 penalty because you have to become stable after rushing into the enemy.



XtheYeti, I fear I don't understand what you mean :blush: (due to language problems)

Golthur
2006-11-24, 12:28 PM
Some feat chains, like I was talking about in the other thread. These are from my alternate system, where fighters get more feats (but they're slightly less powerful), so you might want merge some of them into one ability - particularly Defensive Focus, which is a "gateway" feat, and doesn't do much by itself.

Some of the original concepts were originally from Iron Heroes, but they've been bastardized pretty severely. These ones are defense-based.

Many of them are deliberately underpowered, because they were meant for a system where fighters get more, but weaker, abilities (two a level). Feel free to boost numbers up (e.g. Shield Mastery only gives you a +1, which is pretty weak for a feat, etc.)

SHIELD MASTERY
You are more effective at utilizing your shield for defense.
Prerequisite: Shield Proficiency.
Benefit: When you are using your shield, you gain an additional +1 bonus to your AC. If you are denied your shield or dodge bonuses to your AC, you are also denied this bonus.
In addition, when you use your move action in a round to do nothing but defend yourself with your shield, or when you use the total defense action, your AC bonus due to your shield mastery doubles to +2.
Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each time you do, you must possess an additional +3 Base attack bonus (so +3 for the second, +6 for the third, and so on). Each time you take the feat, your shield bonus increases by +1.

DEFENSIVE FOCUS
You can concentrate effectively on your defense, which can grant you advanced defensive capabilities.
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +1
Benefit: You can acquire and use defensive focus, which allows you to make use of several advanced defensive maneuvers.
Whenever you either fight defensively, use Combat Expertise, or use the total defense action, you automatically acquire a number of defensive focus points equal to the total AC bonus you gained from fighting defensively and any additional bonuses due to Shield Mastery. You maintain a bonus to your AC equal to the number of defensive focus points you currently possess.
You may use these points to power defensive maneuvers. Each point you use decreases your AC bonus by 1 immediately. Any attack which happens after you've used the point uses your reduced AC. You may not spend more points of defensive focus than you possess.

DEFENSIVE OPENING
You can use your armour's protective abilities to create openings and take advantage of them.
Prerequisites: Defensive Focus, Base Attack Bonus +5, Medium or Heavy Armour Proficiency, Shield Proficiency.
Benefit: When an opponent attacks you and misses due to your defensive focus bonus or due to your actual armour, you can take advantage of the momentary opening created.
By expending 3 points of defensive focus as an immediate action, you can gain an attack of opportunity against this opponent at your highest BAB. Because this uses an immediate action, you may not use this maneuver if you have already used either a swift or immediate action previously in the round.

COMBAT MAGNET
You can protect your allies from harm.
Prerequisites: Defensive Focus.
Benefit: For any melee attack against an adjacent ally from a foe who could also attack you, you may opt to spend 1 point of defensive focus as a free action to force the attack to be directed at you instead of your ally. You expend the point of defensive focus (and thus lower your AC by one point) prior to the attack being resolved.

REACTIVE BLOCK
Your use of your shield is nearly automatic.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency, Base Attack Bonus +2.
Benefit: When subject to a situation which would deny you your AC bonus due to your shield, you may consider up to two points of your shield AC bonus as if they were part of your regular AC instead. This includes bonuses gained from Shield Mastery.
You are still considered to be denied your shield AC bonuses (for the purposes of being flat-footed, or sneak attacks), but your AC is higher than it normally would be.
Special: You may select this feat more than once, if you have a Dexterity bonus. Each time you do, you must possess +3 more base attack bonus, and you may count an additional point of your shield AC bonus as if it were part of your regular AC. You may select this feat an additional number of times equal to your Dexterity bonus.

EDIT: Adding one more.

FORTIFIED DEFENSE
You possess the ability to turn aside blows that would otherwise be lethal.
Prerequisites: Defensive Focus, Heavy Armour Proficiency, Base Attack Bonus +6.
Benefit: You can expend 1 point of defensive focus to negate one die of precision-based damage, such as from a skirmish or sneak attack. You may expend multiple points of defensive focus to negate multiple dice.
If you possess at least 10 points of defensive focus, you can expend all of it to negate the effects of a critical hit. Negating a critical hit requires expending all of your defensive focus, not just the minimum 10 required.
You must possess defensive focus and be able to use it to use this feat, so it is not effective if you are flat-footed or otherwise denied your dodge bonus to your AC. That is, you can use it against a sneak attack that you suffer while flanked, but not one that you suffer for being flat-footed.

Blinkbear
2006-11-24, 12:34 PM
This looks really interesting. I will try to put them into combat lore abilities and to add the minimum fighter levels for them.

keep ideas coming everyone!

Golthur
2006-11-24, 12:51 PM
The following feats use the concept of a mobility check. This is a check representing fancy footwork and outmaneuvering of your opponent. Mobility checks are always opposed.

The basic roll is d20 + Dex modifier. Add an additional +1 per 5' of movement rate over 30' (and an additional -1 per 5' of movement rate below 30'). Do the same for the opponent, higher wins, ties are resolved by total modifier first, then Dex modifier. If they're both ties, the defender (you'll see in the feats below) wins.

ADVANCE
You can press your advantage, forcing your foe to withdraw.
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +3.
Benefit: As a standard action, make opposed mobility checks with an opponent within an adjacent square. If you succeed, your opponent must retreat one square (that is, move away from you) either directly or diagonally. You move into the square your opponent just left.
You cannot advance if it would force your foe into deadly or dangerous terrain (such as off a cliff), and this feat automatically fails if you attempt to do so.
You (and your opponent) suffer any potential attacks of opportunity for moving into the new square.
Your opponent can avoid making the check by moving to a square that is not adjacent to you as a free 5' move.

CIRCLE
You circle your opponent, forcing him to shift position in order to defend against you.
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +3.
Benefit: As a standard action, make make opposed mobility checks with an adjacent opponent. If you win the check, you and your opponent swap positions.
You (and your opponent) suffer any potential attacks of opportunity for moving into the new square.
Your opponent can opt out of making the check by taking a free 5' move to a square that is not adjacent to you. They must make this decision prior to rolling the opposed mobility check.

EDIT: one more:

LUNGE
You can make a quick, short, forceful attack with your weapon.
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +2, proficiency with a piercing weapon.
Benefit: You may charge with only 5 feet of movement, although that movement is considered a move action, not a 5' step. You may only perform this charge using a piercing melee weapon.
Normal: You require at least 10' of movement to charge.

I_Got_This_Name
2006-11-24, 01:40 PM
Parry Magic has too few uses per day, for such a limited ability. As I'm reading it, it only works on targeted things, so you can't parry a Fireball; you can only parry a targeted spell, or, presumably, a ray (even though those don't have a target line). This is pretty highly specialized, not guaranteed to work (although your BAB is your level, and you generally have a bunch of other bonuses on top of that, so it works most of the time); you should be able to count on having it when you need it.

As it is, when you first qualify for it you can't use it, and you only have one use per day until 8th level; I'd either stretch it to once per day per level, or to once per encounter (a la Tome of Batttle) per four levels, so that you get some mileage out of the ability. I'd actually consider making it at-will (it's still an immediate action, so your enemies can pile on more spells than you can block, or hit you with area spells).

Blinkbear
2006-11-24, 01:44 PM
Parry Magic has too few uses per day, for such a limited ability. As I'm reading it, it only works on targeted things, so you can't parry a Fireball; you can only parry a targeted spell, or, presumably, a ray (even though those don't have a target line). This is pretty highly specialized, not guaranteed to work (although your BAB is your level, and you generally have a bunch of other bonuses on top of that, so it works most of the time); you should be able to count on having it when you need it.

As it is, when you first qualify for it you can't use it, and you only have one use per day until 8th level; I'd either stretch it to once per day per level, or to once per encounter (a la Tome of Batttle) per four levels, so that you get some mileage out of the ability. I'd actually consider making it at-will (it's still an immediate action, so your enemies can pile on more spells than you can block, or hit you with area spells).

thanks for this comment, i was unsure how balanced or not it is. i think your chance of parrying is not that bad with getting weapon focus, weapon enhancement bonuses and strength. maybe it would be better to say:

... caster level check against DC 15+Attack Bonus with that weapon....

That 1) boosts the ability (15 is over the average), 2) reduces dice rolling, 3) provides the fighter with more security THAT it works.

what about this concept?

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-24, 02:21 PM
Hmmmm, I really like the idea, but maybe the fighter should have less bonus feats, like maybe have one every 3 levels or something.

Miles Invictus
2006-11-24, 04:48 PM
About Miles' Stuff:

With your "improved mobility training" you mean that you also get this bonus in heavy armor and that it stacks with "mobility training" when wearing un-heavy armor. Is that right?

Yup! That's exactly what I meant.



The mobility training feats and the persistant threat sound nice, I will embed them soon into the main entry.

Great. I was worried I didn't explain Persistent Threat clearly enough. :smallsmile:



The three abilities followed sound like good additions to the fighter feat list, instead of the list of Combat Lore abilities don't they? With your permission I will add them to the main entry as bonus feats. One could then also add them as Combat Lore Abilities and say "as the bonus feat". We also need more precision about Pugilist and Brawler:

Go right ahead. I made Pugilist available as a bonus feat so that a Fighter could take it at first level and make a hand-to-hand combat expert. I don't think it would hurt things to make the others available as bonus feats, though they are fairly powerful abilities.


Puglist: Although it is an obvious multiclass helper feat, from the description so far it would be possible for a fighter to select "improved unarmed strike" and have the same damage progression as a monk. Is that want you wanted?

Exactly. I like the hand-to-hand flavor of the Monk, but I don't care about their supernatural abilities.



Brawler: Flurry of Blows like the monk - so only with monk weapons/unarmed or also with normal weapons?


Monk weapons (including unarmed) only. If it allowed bonus attacks for every weapon, you'd have to be an idiot to not take it. Besides, it's simpler if it remains basically the same as the Monk ability.

"I can take it!"
Benefit: Whenever you must make a Reflex save for half damage (such as when hit with a Fireball spell), you may treat it as a Fortitude save. Reflex-related feats and abilities do not apply (so Lightning Reflexes and Evasion cannot be used), but Fortitude-related ones do (so Great Fortitude would improve your saves).

Dire Threat
Benefit: Whenever you can attack in a round, you may declare that you are holding an attack in reserve, by not using that attack. You may reserve multiple attacks. If an enemy provokes an attack of opportunity before your next turn, you may use your reserved attacks on them. You cannot use reserved attacks to force concentration checks on an enemy. (In other words, only your initial attack of opportunity can force a concentration check.)

I_Got_This_Name
2006-11-25, 01:41 AM
The main issue with Parry Magic is how rarely it can be used, not that it's not perfectly reliable. 15+AB vs d20 + CL is nearly unbeatable, since AB is going to be Level + Strength + 1 (Focus) + Enhancement, and you'll only need the latter to add up to 6 (meaning 20 strength, or 18 and a Masterwork weapon, or 16 and a +2 Weapon, or a Masterwork weapon and Greater Weapon Focus), to make an equal-level caster unable to affect you.

The issue is that you can never use it. As a PC, you can expect a lot more than one spell that you need to block to be cast on you per day, even at 4th level, and the number of spells you need to block only increases; it might have only been Slow at 5th level, then you had to worry about Unluck, but, now that your enemies have hit 9th level, you have to worry about the Dominate Person spell too. If you can parry only a few spells per day, you're still way too vulnerable to magic. I'd expand its use limitation, and keep it as-is (attack roll vs caster level check).

henebry
2006-11-25, 01:48 PM
I really like the ideas here for feat-like abilities which would improve the Fighter's core combat ability: a better cleave, a better charge, etc.

But, as noted already by several posters, each "combat lore" listed is a bit more powerful than a standard feat, and this suggests to me that the modified fighter being proposed here is a lot more powerful. With abilities like these, would anyone choose Barbarian? I'm not sure.

Might you have two classes of combat lore, minor and major, and offer them to fighters on an alternating basis?

3rd - minor combat lore
5th - major combat lore
7th - minor combat lore

etc.